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Mystery Call Key to Baby Lisa Case?

Aired November 1, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, explosive new details on the night Baby Lisa went missing. Do phone records contradict the timeline provided by Baby Lisa`s mom? Was she too drunk to know what really happened? Or is she holding back information from cops? Now, the brother we saw on surveillance footage is talking to police. What does he know? I`ll talk to a neighbor for all the inside details.

Plus, end game for the Michael Jackson death trial. With the verdict days away, the defense rests. But Conrad Murray refuses to testify. Is he afraid of the truth or of being eviscerated on the stand?

And, uproar over Kim Kardashian`s quickie marriage. Some say her brief marriage was a total sham and that she made millions off the wedding. Now her famous family is in damage control overdrive. What does Kim`s sudden split say about our addiction to celebrity? I`m taking your calls.

ISSUES starts now.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something is really wrong with Mom and Dad in this case, and I`m afraid that it probably is going to end up being something that led to the death of a child, I hate to say.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s putting puzzle pieces together, you know, of your suspicions, or my own personal theories of what may or may not have happened that night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He turned and looked at me and I looked at him and I could tell he had a baby with him. She had a T-shirt and either training pants or a diaper on. It was too cold for that, I thought.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope they find whoever did it. I hope those parents weren`t involved.

MEGAN WRIGHT, RECEIVED PHONE CALL FROM PARENT`S PHONE: Apparently, there was a 50-second phone call made from one of the parent`s phones to my cell phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It really just takes the one right nugget of information to kick this thing off into high gear, and that`s what we`re still looking and waiting for.

CYNDY SHORT, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR BABY LISA`S PARENTS: Lisa was this little girl that was going to hold this family together, to link them together.

DEBORAH BRADLEY, BABY LISA`S MOTHER: She`s everything. She`s our little girl. She`s completed our family. She means everything to our boys and we -- we need her home. I can`t -- I can`t be without her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live from Los Angeles.

Could a break in the Baby Lisa timeline crack the case of this adorable, helpless child who`s been missing nearly a month?

Baby Lisa vanished from her crib in the dead of night, along with her parents` cell phone. So could a phone call from one of those cell phones be the key to solving this case?


WRIGHT: I didn`t have my phone at the time, but apparently, there was a 50-second phone call made from one of the family`s phones to my cell phone, about 50 seconds in length. I don`t know what was said or who called or who answered my phone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is the woman who received -- that woman with pink hair, she`s the one who received a call from a phone that was in Baby Lisa`s parent`s house, a phone the parents said disappeared at the very time that this child disappeared. Who made the call? What was said during those 50 seconds?

Let`s run through this timeline. On the night Baby Lisa went missing, Baby Lisa`s mom, Deborah, put her down to sleep at 6:40 p.m.

Between 8:00 and 8:30 p.m., a phone call from one of Deborah`s phones to Jersey`s ex-girlfriend, Megan Wright, is made. It lasts 50 seconds.

12:15, neighbors witness a man carrying a baby down the street.

Then 2:15, gas station surveillance video shows a man walking down the road who matches that description.

Finally, 4 a.m., the witness on a motorcycle sees a baby with a man, a man walking, holding a child less than three miles from Baby Lisa`s house.

All right. Another shocking detail. Reports are Deborah`s brother, the man seen here in this surveillance video with his sister, buying wine earlier in the evening that very night that the child disappears, has volunteered to talk to police and spoke with them for two hours. Does he have crucial information?

All right. Jim Spellman, CNN correspondent, live in Kansas City, Missouri. What do you know about the homeless man, Jersey, and his appearance in court today? Tell us about the Jersey connection, if there is one.

JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sure. Now, we know that Jersey is connected to this investigation because of this phone call. It was made to his ex-girlfriend. So that connects him to the investigation, not at all to say that he was involved in Baby Lisa`s disappearance or anything, but he`s definitely part of this investigation now.

He was arrested a few weeks ago on an unrelated warrant. He`s been in jail ever since. Today he had a short procedural hearing about 90 seconds. He appeared. He now has a shaved head, and he went in and out of the courtroom. They continued everything for two weeks. So he`ll be in jail for at least another two weeks.

We still don`t know what really his importance is, but geographically and now for this telephone, we know that he was in this area immediately before Baby Lisa disappeared.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And he also may have some connection, possibly -- we don`t know -- to a garbage dump that was set on fire? That`s another missing piece to the puzzle. The very night that the child disappears, a garbage dump in the area is set on fire. What do you know?

SPELLMAN: That`s right. There`s a garbage Dumpster that is directly behind a yard, right around the corner from Baby Lisa`s house. And this yard that connects the street around the corner from her house and this Dumpster is a yard where he worked, where John Tanko, the man known as Jersey, worked from time to time. That day he was working, turning sprinklers on and off.

This was a route that we know, from what a neighbor has told us, and what his ex-girlfriend, Megan Wright, has told us, was their common route in and out of this neighborhood, was past this Dumpster and through this yard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst, jump in.

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, look. I think this Dumpster -- Jim and I talked about this last night. You`ve talked about it. This is a route that Jim was just talking about where Megan Wright and Jersey, John Tanko, used to take on a regular basis to cut over to Brighton Avenue, which is the main drag next to those town homes/apartments, Jane, on the way to the gas station.

Now, did he put -- did he light this fire? We don`t know for sure. But one of the interesting facts in this case, they took that Dumpster.

Normally, you know, I was a cop and also assistant chief in Fairfax County, Virginia, fire chief, and they don`t usually take Dumpsters, Jane, when there`s a simple Dumpster fire. Do they think this was connected? I`m saying that most likely they think that it is, or else they would not have taken that as possible evidence. They would have just left it there, like they normally do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And a couple of other facts. The mother of the missing child says cops showed her burning clothes or burnt clothes, burnt children`s clothes. And if there was a Dumpster fire that night, and the cops are showing the mother burnt children`s clothes, what do you make of that, Mike Brooks?

BROOKS: Well, you know, initially, Jane, they thought there might have been what in law enforcement we call a prop. You bring someone in you`re trying to get information from, you put different things around the interrogation room or the interview room and just try to get some information. You know, was this maybe not a prop? Was this possible evidence?

Because she also said that same night they showed her a map, and she called it a Doppler hit, but it sounded like it had to do with cell-phone hits. So what does that mean? We don`t know.

But their phones that were taken apparently were prepaid cell phones. Now, the call that Megan Wright got, she doesn`t know who handed -- she said there was about eight people, as Jim Spellman has been reporting, that lived in this flophouse, if you will. And they don`t know exactly who took the call and the exact time and what was said or if there was any message left, because it apparently had been erased from the phone when she got it back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, there`s a huge cast of characters in this drama. And Richard Herman, let`s talk about the brother, because cops interviewed the brother today for a couple of hours. He`s the very person who took the mother to the grocery store to buy a box of wine earlier in the evening, and then reportedly took her back and dropped her off.

But one of the problems is, nobody knows -- there`s the mother shopping with the brother. The brother`s in the black shirt. Now, he doesn`t, in any way, fit the description at all of the mystery man walking around with the child in the dead of night.

And by the way, we also want to say that Jersey, the homeless yard man, also is not the person who was carrying the child around in the dead of night, because one of the witnesses who saw this mystery man says he looked at photographs, and that`s not the guy. It`s not Jersey. So, it`s not the brother; it`s not Jersey. We know that this mystery man, who was carrying around a child, is somebody who lives in the neighborhood. Cops apparently know that much.

But what do you think, Richard Herman, they`re going to talk to this brother about, given that he went and bought wine with the mom and then supposedly dropped her off? There`s conflicting information as to whether he went into the house or not.

RICHARD HERMAN: Jane, first of all, let me tell you, you`re doing an outstanding job on the Conrad Murray trial. I`m watching you every day. Outstanding, fair reporting.


HERMAN: Very, very good. Excellent.


HERMAN: Now, I think what they`re doing is trying to corroborate the mother`s story. It`s important for them to trust what the mother said. You know, she had that little flaw, what time she actually went to sleep, and she came back to 6:30, after she put the child to bed. So they just need to corroborate her story, coming home from the store, buying the wine. The brother can do that.

But this Jersey fellow, he`s not out of the woods yet. And I know in -- he`s been interviewed, and law enforcement has said, "Oh, we`ve released him. There`s no issue with him." I don`t buy it, Jane. That phone call to his ex-girlfriend, Megan Wright, they were ex-boyfriend and girlfriend. There`s something wrong here. He was deemed a drifter in the neighborhood. There`s something wrong with his story.

The route that Mike Brooks talked about, him and Vinnie plotted it out earlier today, it`s the route he took every day right by that garbage, and it`s not a plus that they`re showing the mother burnt clothing. That is not a plus.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we are taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk that to a neighbor who was there that night and who saw what was going on in the neighborhood. Did she witness something crucial? On the other side of the break.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it wouldn`t surprise me that she was picked up without crying?

BRADLEY: Well, yes, she was sleeping...

IRWIN: You can move her around.

BRADLEY: Sometimes she cries. It depends on how -- how long of sleep she`s had. But I mean, if you pick her up and you cuddle with her, she probably won`t cry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

BRADLEY: Thank you.




MARY HURT, BABY LISA`S NEIGHBOR: There were investigators that came over to this house and did some footprinting, because there was a sprinkler that happened to be on in that yard that made it moist over here.

They only did molds right here. Like, right by the barn.

Definitely, you could tell that he was probably into drugs. He was a little bit shady. You definitely didn`t trust him with anything, but he was a nice guy.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is Mary Hurt, a neighbor in the area, talking about this man named Jersey who is also -- his real name is John Tanko, and he was in court today, and he`s bald. We`re going to show you some video of him in a second. There he is, in court today, but not on this case. Cops say he`s not a suspect in this case. He is being held on some kind of burglary charge, we understand, and we saw him briefly in court.

Now, why is he significant? He is significant, because he is the ex- girlfriend of the woman with pink hair by the name of Megan Wright, who says she got a phone call at about 8 or 8:30 on the night that Baby Lisa disappears from a phone, a cell phone, that Deborah Bradley, the mother of the missing child, says was taken by whoever abducted her child.

So the obvious question is, if she says that she was out on the stoop with the neighbor until 10:30 at night, and then passes out in bed, and then her child is abducted after that, how is it possible for a phone call to be made from a phone that was supposedly taken at 10:30, at 8 to somebody that she doesn`t know? It`s a very bizarre situation.

We`re delighted to have the neighbor that you just saw on tape there, Mary Hurt, there with us live tonight.

Mary, you said you thought that John Tanko, a.k.a., Jersey, was probably on drugs. Elaborate a little bit on that.

HURT: Well, we had definitely -- you can tell, he acted funny sometimes, and just through conversations that he had said, he said that he had smoked weed and stuff, and that he was involved in all of that. And then he had plans to go -- you know, go smoke tonight or whatever. Just through various conversations through the months that we had with him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And he is working -- he was working, at the time of the child`s disappearance, at your neighbor`s house. They`re an only couple. They go away and they let him do things like turn on and off the water sprinklers. And you -- you think he was working there that night, correct?

HURT: Correct. He had been there moving the sprinklers around previous in the day.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. So, now, his ex-girlfriend, the woman with pink hair, Megan Wright, gets a phone call from a phone that has purportedly been stolen from the mother`s house, except that she gets it at 8 or 8:30 at night, which is hours before when she says she passes out at 10:30. What do you make of that, Mary?

And also that Megan Wright, the lady with the pink hair, says that cops told her that the mother, this woman, you`re looking at here, had her phone number written in ink on her hand. What do you -- we`re trying to see if there`s any connection between all these folks.

We know the mother was drinking. The mother of the missing child admits she had probably five glasses of wine. She may have been taking anti-anxiety meds, according to some published reports. I`m not saying she`s a suspect. She`s not a suspect. Cops have not named any suspects in this case. But what do you make of this whole possible -- this cast of characters? And we`re trying to figure out if there`s any connection, Mary.

HURT: Well, it`s definitely suspicious. I know that Jersey was around the entire neighborhood, and he`d often ask to use a phone or, you know, he`d ask for rides. We never gave him a ride anywhere, but he definitely was asking to use people`s phones. I don`t know if he, by chance, called from one of their phones at some point or not. I mean, I can only speculate as to what that would mean, as well, but it`s definitely strange.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to go out to the phone lines now. Pam, Tennessee, your question or thought, Pam?

CALLER: Yes. I watched your show last night, and on there, Megan Wright said that she absolutely knew no one in the family, Baby Lisa`s family. But also on the next show that she filled in for Nancy Grace, you interviewed a neighbor right next door, that said she saw Jersey working and that she saw Megan Wright coming over there several times, and that she saw Baby Lisa`s mother give her a ride home. So I thought that was an interesting case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa! I -- I must have missed anything about Baby Lisa`s mom giving the woman with pink hair a ride home. That is completely new to me and I have no independent confirmation of it. Mary Hurt, do you want to weigh in on that?

HURT: That actually was our next-door neighbor who had given Megan Wright rides home, not Deborah Bradley. Our next-door neighbor, the Watsons.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Thank you for clarifying that. Thank you for clarifying that. Mike Brooks, is there a nexus, do you think, between all these people?

BROOKS: You know, that`s what someone right now -- I guarantee you someone with the Kansas City Police Department as well as the FBI, their child abduction response team, they have analysts who take all this information and are trying to put all of this together, as part of their case management system.

And I think -- I think we`re close. I think we`re close to a possible break in this case. It`s not a matter of if, but a matter of when.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you. More next.



MICHAEL JACKSON, POP STAR: This is it. I mean, this is really it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Conrad Murray has been accused of infusing a dose of Propofol and leaving his patient.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn`t have the guts to face us.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was paid to do a job. and I think he needs to talk about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did anybody witness what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Just the doctor, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think if he does testify, it might help him a little bit. And I don`t really want him helped too much.

YVONNE, MICHAEL JACKSON FAN: What`s he going to do? Get up and perjure himself? He`s already done that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Six weeks of testimony have led to this moment. The defense rests in the Michael Jackson death trial with the defendant, Dr. Conrad Murray, refusing to testify. Is Dr. Murray afraid of incriminating himself, or is he scared to death of the D.A. ripping him to shreds on the stand.

One court observer this morning had told me he was glad Dr. Conrad Murray decided to sit this one out.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think Dr. Conrad Murray should testify?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I hope he doesn`t, because I think he`s guilty. I think if he does testify, it might help him a little bit, and I don`t really want him help too much, in my personal opinion.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think it will help him? You think it will charm the jury?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I think just hearing his voice in that recording, he sounded like a cultured, intelligent man.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, you were in court when the announcement was made. What happened?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": First of all, the judge advised the defendant over and over again...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean, what happened in court today when Conrad Murray decided not to testify?

CASAREZ: Well, the judge went over and over, telling Dr. Conrad Murray, "This is your right to testify. No one can take that right away from you: not your family, not your attorney, not your friends, and not even the judge. If you want to testify, you will testify."

And then there was this pause. He looked to the right, to where Ed Chernoff was. The defendant then looked to the left where Michael Flanagan was and looked straight at the judge, didn`t say anything. And then he finally said, "Your honor, I have decided to not testify."

It was a very strange moment in court. I have never seen anything like it, when this constitutional moment takes place.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s another take on Dr. Conrad Murray`s decision not to take the stand in his own defense from a friend of the Jackson family outside court this morning.


YVONNE: What`s he going to say? How`s he going to wiggle his way out of this? The facts. The facts from the court. How`s he going to deny it? What`s he going to do? Get up and perjure himself? He`s already done that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, what`s your guess as to when this case is going to go to a jury for deliberations?

CASAREZ: Well, we know that the closing arguments are on Thursday. They should take most of the day. The jury has to be read their instructions, which can be lengthy, sometimes. They have to be charged. I`ve seen many times that at the end of the day, they go back. They pick their foreperson, who will lead the jury deliberations, then come back on Friday to begin a full day of deliberations.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And juries do like to go home on Friday. But you`ve got to wonder, in this case, with so much complex medical testimony and evidence, six weeks` worth, if they`re going to be able to wrap it up in one day. Your guess, Jean, right here? Friday?

CASAREZ: You know, this jury is tired. I see it. They are very tired. But they also want to arrive at the right decision. I think if they go into next week, there will be some that have various opinions on what this verdict should be.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to have to see. Thank you so much.

Up next, Kim Kardashian.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wanted to have sort of a fairy tale wedding with all of her family and friends.

KATHIE LEE GIFFORD, HOST, "TODAY": At the reception afterwards, Khloe, who always says what she thinks, walks by me. I don`t think Khloe would care if I said it. She goes, "I give it six f-ing months."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kim Kardashian is calling it quits on her husband number two.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kim had to make a very difficult decision. She needed to do that on her own.

ROB KARDASHIAN, BROTHER OF Kim KARDASHIAN: We`re just here as her family; just to be real supportive. We support anything she does and that`s about it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Escalating outrage tonight over Kim Kardashian`s decision to end her marriage to NBA player Kris Humphries after only 72 days. Give the poor guy a chance, Kim.

E! televised Kim`s and Kris` fairytale wedding that cost an estimated $10 million. But before you feel too bad for the Kardashian empire there are reports Kim sold the rights to the broadcast of her wedding for over $17 million. Spread out over 72 days, that would mean she made $10,000 an hour while she was married.

Now she`s disputing that. We`ll get to that in a moment. But there are two words now being used when talking about the Kardashian wedding fiasco, and they are not "I do". How about "damage control"? A trending topic erupting on Twitter called things longer than Kim`s wedding. Some of the answers -- let`s see -- her sex tape, her last name, and the time it took me to write this.

The Kardashian family took exception. They are in a huff over people treating this as a joke and suggesting the whole wedding was a money-making operation. Kim`s mom, Kris Jenner appeared on radio this morning. Let`s listen to what she had to say.


KRIS JENNER, MOTHER OF KIM KARDASHIAN: Something in print, and something written down or on the cover of a newspaper. You know, you think oh, that`s true. This is what happened. And it couldn`t be further from the truth.

So, you know, people have to just calm down for a minute and realize that no one`s doing anything crazy. It`s just a horrible, horrible situation.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know what? Any of the Kardashians: mom, Kim, Kris, the whole gang, they can come on the show anytime. We want to be fair and hear your side of the story.

Meantime, you can call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to Dylan Howard, senior editor "Star" magazine and RadarOnline; Kim Kardashian has just issued a statement saying, among other things, "There are reports I made millions of dollars off the wedding. These reports are simply not true and it makes me so sad to even clarify this. I`m so grateful to everyone who took the time to come to my wedding and I will be donating the money for all the gifts to the Dream Foundation." What do you know, Dylan?

DYLAN HOWARD, SENIOR EDITOR, "STAR" MAGAZINE: Well, this is damage control 101. Kim Kardashian has just touched down in Sydney, Australia where she`s attending a promotional visit, attending a spring racing carnival, horse racing event in Melbourne. She arrived in Sydney moments ago with her sister, Khloe and her husband, Lamar Odom. It`s been a damaging day for the Kardashians.

In the last 24 hours, Kim Kardashian has gone from one of the most revered Hollywood celebrities to the laughing stock of the nation. We saw Kris Jenner taking to the airwaves, trying to defend her daughter this morning, but many people are very suspicious of this.

They believe that Kris Humphries was cast in the role of Kim Kardashian`s husband and they`re really not stomaching this. This is going to be the biggest test for the brand and credibility of the Kardashians, which had actually become a multi-million dollar empire.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, my question, of course, should people be brands? Or shouldn`t they just maybe be people?

Now, this is a breaking news story, so I`m going to tell you, it`s just coming in. It`s just in to HLN. Kim Kardashian has posted a message to her fans on her Web site. We`re going to read a portion.

Quote, "I am trying not to read all the different media reports, but it`s hard not to see all the negative ones. First and foremost, I married for love. I can`t believe I even have to defend this. I would not have spent so much time on something just for a TV show."

She goes on to say, quote, "Everyone that knows me knows that I`m hopeless romantic. I love with all of my heart and soul. I want a family and babies and a real life so badly that maybe I rushed into something too soon. I got caught up with the hoopla and the filming of the TV show when I probably should have ended my relationship. I didn`t know how to and I didn`t want to disappoint a lot of people."

Whoa -- what is -- Tanya Young Williams, you`re a legal analyst, but maybe you`re a relationship analyst too. You were married to -- well, you are still married to Jayson Williams -- but you were on that basketball show, "Basketball Wives", what is she saying there? She really didn`t want to go through with the wedding, but the invitations were out?

TANYA YOUNG WILLIAMS, LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. She`s saying that she almost got pressured into it because she got caught up, as she says, in the hoopla. But what she`s also doing is, yes, it`s damage control. She`s making people now feel sympathy for her.

In fact, in this letter, she says, please respect my courage, which means she`s stepping out on a limb and exposing herself, which she`s always done on the reality shows. She`s showing her life, her heartaches, her good times, her bad times. She`s just being Kim Kardashian and now she`s put it in writing. So she`s staying true to form.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. What I want to know, those wedding gifts, expensive wedding gifts. Ok, Kris Jenner was asked about that today. Let`s listen and then we`re going to analyze.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happens to all the wedding gifts they got? That`s a long line --

JENNER: Well, I`m sure Kim will make a ginormous donation, as she does all the time anyway, very quietly, to a wonderful, deserving charity or children`s hospital or something like that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or, as our photographer, who`s behind the camera here said, "Who gets the salad spinner?" Rob Shuter, Popeater`s "Naughty but Nice"; she`s now saying, I`ll be donating the money for all the gifts to the Dream Foundation. Is that damage control? I mean she didn`t say that initially.

You know what you can say, Kim, next time you get married, in lieu of gifts, give a donation to -- here`s the charity. Rob?

ROB SHUTER, COLUMNIST, POPEATER: Yes, I think that Dylan from Radar and "Star" magazine is totally right here. This has taken this family by surprise. We have never seen the Kardashians make a misstep in their career; even the sex tape, they managed to turn that into gold. This is the first mistake they`ve ever made and this backlash, this public backlash has taken them by total surprise and now they are in damage control.

Tomorrow, Kim`s mom, Kris Jenner already on many, many TV shows talking about this. The mom is going to be out there. And I think Kim is scheduled to do her first interview from Australia tomorrow, so we`ll hear what she has to say then.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and again, call us, Skype us, send us an origami message. We will put it up.

There were warning signs leading right up to the marriage. Listen to what Kathie Lee Gifford said about the pre-wedding party. Got to hear this -- wild.


GIFFORD: We went to a pre-wedding party at a beautiful private home in Santa Barbara the night before. And there were only maybe 50 people there. And I never saw them together the entire night.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, by the way, if you want to know my opinion on this, it`s called the "Sound of Silence". I have a blog post, an opinion piece that just went up on, and my essential argument is, where are all those people who are arguing that gay marriage is destroying the institution of marriage? Where are those people tonight? Why aren`t they screaming and yelling about this? I can`t hear you.

All right, that`s my blog post. Check it out,

Sandra, California, your question or thought, Sandra?

SANDRA, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): Hi, Jane. So glad I got through.


SANDRA: Yes, about the Kardashians -- enough is enough is enough. I am so sick of their greed and exploitation of this family. It`s too much for words. Enough is enough. I, for one, will boycott any and all Kardashian clothing, events, viewing on TV. I`m done with them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dylan Howard, there is sort of an unspoken rule that if you`re going to be on reality TV, there`s sort of an unspoken pact that you make with the public. Do you think that she violated the pact, in some way?

HOWARD: Well, I think a lot of people are going to be suspicious of what took place. And I spoke to a number of Kim Kardashian`s friends yesterday, and they insist that she was in love. But they insist that the reason she married so soon after meeting Kris Humphries was because of the NBA season, and the couple wanted to get married, of course, that NBA season hasn`t eventuated due to the lockout.

So in a lot of ways, they`re saying that Kim was boxed into this. The reasons they say the relationship didn`t last the test of time was because the families couldn`t get along. Kris` family didn`t like Kim and Kim`s family didn`t like Kris. We saw that as a story line on the show. What`s more, Kim`s 31 and Kris is 26, and they say he`s going on 23.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. Now she`s a cougar on top of everything else. Ok. Thank you, Dylan. Quick question, is she going to get married again, yes or no?

WILLIAMS: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You heard it first. More Kardashian craziness straight ahead.



KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY STAR: Despite all the fun and the glitz and the glam and the great food and the great DJ and all that, we had our family that we loved all there and I think that was the best part.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That wasn`t the best part. It was supposed to be exchanging vows with your new husband. That was supposed to be the best part, Kim.

And perhaps that was part of the problem from the get-go, that the courtship, the engagement and the marriage of Kim Kardashian and Kris Humphries was too public. Face it, cameras everywhere.

Listen to what Kathie Lee Gifford, who was a guest at the wedding said this morning on the "Today" show.


GIFFORD: You have to live your life authentically, and with cameras off. I think maybe that marriage would have had a chance if she wasn`t flying to Australia one day, going to oobidabi googoo (ph).


GIFFORD: Everywhere -- every time you turn around she was someplace else. You get married to be together, not all the time, but that`s part of the commitment too.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Commitment -- Didn`t seem to be a word that was important in their very brief 72-day marriage. At least that`s when she filed for divorce. It looks like another word became a top priority, "business", as in business deal.

Look at the hard facts. E! televised their wedding over two nights under the title "Kim`s Fairytale Wedding": A Kardashian event". It was an event, all right, a major TV event. More than 8 million Americans watched the television special.

There are reports that Kim, ever the very, very brilliant businesswoman sold the rights to the wedding to E! and "People" magazine for $17 million. That means over 72 days that she was married, before she announced she wanted to divorce, Kim made $10,000 an hour. Is that right? Really, people?

One person who knows what it`s like to be married in the spotlight is Trista Sutter. She met her husband, Ryan, on "The Bachelorette". He proposed and they are still together. Trista Sutter, thank you so much for joining me from your home in Colorado via Skype.

First of all, your reaction to this news that Kim Kardashian`s reality TV marriage is crashing and burning after 72 days.

TRISTA SUTTER, STARRED IN "THE BACHELORETTE": Well, you know, I tend to be a hopeless romantic, so I`m actually really sad for them. I know that a lot of people think it was a sham and they`re just doing it to make money. And who knows what the reality is, but any love story, whether it was for seven hours or seven days or 72 days, it`s just sad to me that it`s ending.

And, you know, I think that it`s sad that people are generalizing that, you know, that anyone who is in the reality TV world and decides to share their, quote-unquote, "sacred day" with the rest of the world or whoever chooses to watch is making their marriage less sacred.

I am here to say that my marriage is incredibly sacred to me and we just wanted to share it with the people who saw us fall in love. And you know, there are different reasons that people do things, but you know, the fact that people are generalizing, I think, is unfair.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, more than 15 million people watched you get married, Trista. Let`s watch that magical moment on "Bachelorette" when Ryan, who is now your husband, got down on one knee and proposed to you, Trista. Check it out.


RYAN SUTTER, CONTESTANT "THE BACHELORETTE": Trista Nicole, will you marry me?



VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Trista, that doesn`t look fake. That kiss looks real and that love looks real.

T. SUTTER: It is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think we have to get down to intention. What is the intention? What was your intention in allowing 15 million plus people to watch you get married? To watch your now-husband propose to you -- why did you let the world in?

T. SUTTER: You know, like I just said, I think, you know, millions of people watched us fall in love, and first of all, we wanted to share that with those people. Second of all --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Were you compensated? Is it ok if I ask you if you were compensated?

T. SUTTER: Oh, we were. It`s public knowledge. We were compensated $1 million, and that was another big reason. You know, we wanted to be able to start our life here near Vale, Colorado, which is actually a pretty expensive place to live.

Ryan`s a firefighter, I didn`t have a job, we wanted to be able to buy a home and really start our life off on a good foot. Besides the fact that, you know, our family didn`t have to worry about any kind of costs. In fact, they were really treated like royalty and, you know, brought into the whole dream with us, which was another big reason for me was being able to share, you know, this kind of fantasy with my friends and family.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you don`t think it cheapened it whatsoever? You don`t think it commercialized it?

T. SUTTER: No, I don`t, because it`s what we took out of it. And what we did was enjoyed the day. Yes, there were lots of cameras there, but who doesn`t have a videographer at their wedding now? You know. We just had a really good videographer, is the way that we looked at it.

So it was an opportunity for us, and we didn`t start off like the Kardashians, you know, or Kris Humphries, we don`t play in the, you know, NBA, and we don`t have millions and millions --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You moved out of Hollywood and your husband is now a firefighter.

T. SUTTER: What?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You moved out of Hollywood and you`re living -- far from Hollywood. Your husband`s a firefighter. And listen, I wish you guys the best and I`m glad you made it work.

T. SUTTER: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m really happy for you. More -- We`re going to have a relationship analyst analyze the Kim and Kris crash, next.



KHLOE KARDASHIAN, SISTER OF KIM KARDASHIAN: I think Kim is like Elizabeth Taylor. I think she`s going to be married like eight glamorous times but -- just dripping in diamonds and emeralds.

Like every 20 carat engagement ring is on her finger.

KIM KARDASHIAN: I want one more.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. It`s not just Kim Kardashian. I mean remember Britney Spears? She was married very briefly to Jason Alexander. They tied the knot in Las Vegas for 55 hours and then it was annulled.

Diana Falzone, relationship expert, we live in a disposable society. That`s part of the problem. We throw everything away and we don`t fix it anymore.

DIANA FALZONE, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: It`s all about instant gratification. And unfortunately we`re seeing this with Kim Kardashian and Kris Humphries. I believe that they went into it with the best of intentions but unfortunately didn`t realize that they can`t just have the doves and the love all of the time; that marriage is work. Two months? That`s not working.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You really think they were in love?

FALZONE: I believe that there was an infatuation period. I think Kim Kardashian has a history of being in love with love. I also think that she`s in her early 30s, and probably thought, "You know what? I have the societal pressure to get married, to settle down, and I might as well do it now." And maybe --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How about waiting? How about waiting? Wait, there`s this little thing. I can sell my wedding reportedly for $17 million. That might be an impetus to do ahead throw your hat over the fence and tie the knot.

FALZONE: Absolutely. The Kardashians are very plotted (ph) business people. We know this. Obviously they`re probably thinking, "You know, this is a good time. We`re having a little bit of a lull in the Kardashian clan. No one is getting married. No one is getting pregnant. This would be perfect timing." Do I think Kim Kardashian thought the marriage was --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to jump in. Diana, should a marriage be commoditized; should it for money? Should there be a dollar figure attached to a wedding?

VALZONE: I don`t think so, but unfortunately we live in a capitalist society where I go everything can be turned into a business. We see this a lot of times, too, in the private world without the media spotlight where people marry for money.

Is it right? Absolutely not. Because marriage is sacred. And I think the institution of marriage is definitely being distorted when it`s part of a reality show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Last night on issues I talked to George Takei, one of the original members of "Star Trek". We all love him. He talked about how he had to struggle for decades to marry the man he loves. Listen to this.


GEORGE TAKEI, ACTOR: We had been together for 24 years, and next March we`ll be celebrating our 25th anniversary together; three of that, legally.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where are the people who are fighting for the Defense of Marriage with this 72-hour marriage -- 72-day marriage? Where are they, Diana?

FALZONE: If I -- you know, obviously, I`m not a legal expert. But if I were the one who is saying, ok, go ahead and file for the petition of the divorce, I wouldn`t allow it. I would say you have to go to marital counseling. You have to work on this before you throw in the towel to make an example that marriage is not something you do thoughtlessly.

Obviously, they spent $10 million on the wedding.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But where are the people who are fighting for the institution of marriage? I don`t hear them saying anything about the --

FALZONE: I`m right here, Jane. I`m fighting for the institution.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where are they right here? Why aren`t they using this as exhibit A in the destruction of marriage? Why do they point to gay marriage as the destruction of marriage? Why aren`t they looking at this and say this is making marriage a joke?

FALZONE: I concur.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is making a mockery of matrimony.

FALZONE: I concur with you and I think that`s why they look at someone like Kim Kardashian --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your final thoughts in a minute.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: To me Kim Kardashian`s short-lived marriage is a metaphor for what`s wrong with our society, namely that we have commoditized everything. We have put a price tag in our society on everything. And we`re also a disposable society so we throw everything away the second it becomes a little bit inconvenient to us. Diana Falzone, is this a learning -- a teachable moment?

FALZONE: I think it`s a teachable moment in that you shouldn`t rush into marriage. That it is something that takes a lot of thought. That when you are in love with someone, that`s not enough to make a marriage for decades sustain. You have to be compatible. You have to have the same morals and the background.

People say opposites attract. That`s actually not true. When you have similar backgrounds it helps it to be a more solid foundation.

So is this a teachable moment? Yes. Sadly for Kim Kardashian I think it`s a sad day.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Got to leave it right there. Well said.

"NANCY GRACE" is up next.