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Jury Deliberates on Michael Jackson Death Trial; Herman Cain's Campaign; Interview with Ben Stiller, Matthew Broderick

Aired November 3, 2011 - 21:00   ET


PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight, is someone out to get Herman Cain? Another day, another allegation. This time, an even higher price tag.

Plus, new denials.

CURT ANDERSON, RICK PERRY ADVISER: I didn't know anything about this. It's hard to leak something that you don't know anything about.

MORGAN: What does this say about the presidential race and about race in America?

Also, clues about what the jury may be thinking in the trial of Michael Jackson's doctor.

And -- there's something about Ben Stiller. He's box office gold.

Do you know which one's the biggest grossing?

BEN STILLER, ACTOR/COMEDIAN/PRODUCER: The biggest? Probably -- one of the "Night at the Museum" maybe?

MORGAN: "Meet the Fockers."

STILLER: Really? Wow.

MORGAN: $218 million.

Now he plays a modern-day Robin Hood in a story that seems more Madoff than made-up.

STILLER: Let's storm the castle together.

MICHAEL PENA, ACTOR: Like when they went after Frankenstein.

STILLER: No. It's a different kind of storming. It's somewhere where the peasants take everything back from, like, the feudal lords.


MORGAN: Plus co-star Matthew Broderick and two of the most powerful men in Hollywood.

This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT. We begin with breaking news tonight. A matter of hours the jury in the manslaughter trial of Michael Jackson's doctor Conrad Murray will get the case.

Ted Rowlands is inside the courtroom today and joins me now.

Ted, another dramatic day and now we will get to, I guess, the final answer. Describe what happened today.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Piers, two very passionate arguments by both sides. David Walgren started off telling the jury that this wasn't a case about a doctor-patient relationship. This was a case about a guy that was willing to do something very dangerous for $150,000 a month. He also reminded the jury about Michael Jackson's three children that will be growing up fatherless.

The Jackson family was in the courtroom as they usually are and there were a few moments where it was very emotional. One of them -- and we'll take a listen in just a second here -- was when David Walgren was talking about that minute where Michael Jackson likely died.


DAVID WALGREN, PROSECUTOR: This is when Conrad Murray gave just an ounce of attention to Michael Jackson to see what his condition was. But again, how long he had been in that condition? We'll never know. Was Conrad Murray in another room? Did Michael Jackson yell out for help? Did he gasp? Did he choke? Were there sounds?

We don't know. And we'll never know. Because of the neglect and negligence of Conrad Murray.


ROWLANDS: Now Ed Chernoff was equally passionate during his close. He said that Dr. Murray was a little fish in a big, dirty pond, and he told jurors, hey, this is reality. It's not a reality show. And he again -- and this was a theme throughout this -- said that Michael Jackson accidentally killed himself.


ED CHERNOFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What they're really asking you to do -- just say it. What they're really asking you to do is to convict Dr. Murray for the actions of Michael Jackson. And I'm going to -- you know, we've been dancing around this for six weeks. Maybe two years. Somebody's got to say it. Somebody's got to tell the truth. Somebody's got to just say it. If it were anybody else but Michael Jackson, anybody else, would this doctor be here today?


ROWLANDS: Obviously, Piers, a lot of emotion today in the courtroom and a lot for this jury to digest.

MORGAN: But Ted, I mean, where would your money be going now? Guilty or not guilty?

ROWLANDS: Well, you know what? There's a -- there's a lot of evidence that this jury's going to overlook and to be honest with you I wouldn't want to be a juror on this case because it is so difficult.

Clearly, the cause of death isn't established and Walgren acknowledged that. They have to go through this and then search their souls. I think there's a chance that there's a hung jury in this case.

MORGAN: Ted Rowlands, thanks very much, indeed. And we may even hear a verdict tomorrow on that absorbing trial.

But for now, the other big story of the night, Herman Cain. He says the American people are sick of the accusations against him which he called gutter politics. And if a fundraising is any indication, he may just be right.

Candidate Cain -- this is extraordinary -- has raised an impressive $1.2 million since Sunday when the sexual harassment allegations against him first broke, and even in the face of new details today a defiant Cain is not backing down. Listen to what he said on Sean Hannity's radio show earlier today.


HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This will not deter me. This businessman is not going to be deterred in his drive to basically do what I feel like I'm supposed to be doing which is to win this nomination and win the presidency.


MORGAN: Herman Cain today.

Joining me now with the latest details is Jonathan Martin of "Politico." He broke the story about a $45,000 payment to one of Herman Cain's accusers.

Welcome, Jonathan. Another story broken by "Politico." You've led the way on this scandal so far. Tell me about the latest development and why it's significant.

JONATHAN MARTIN, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO: Well, there were two developments today. First, one of the women who we first reported about on Sunday, we had five figures on Sunday as to the payouts for the two women. "The New York Times" put one at about 35. We today reported, Piers, that the other one got about $45,000 when she left the organization, signing that nondisclosure agreement to not talk about what happened with Mr. Cain.

The other news tonight from my colleagues Ken Vogel, Maggie Haberman, Alex Burns, described more in depth what happened with Mr. Cain and one of these women at a hotel room at a convention put on by the organization in the late '90s where Mr. Cain made a sexual overture to the woman and the woman was so angry, so appalled that she actually sought out a board member of the organization just hours after the encounter.

MORGAN: I mean, Herman Cain has repeatedly changed his story over this, which doesn't help him. Having said that, his argument that it all happened a long time does hold some water. Where do you think the depth charge will come in the scandal if at all?

MARTIN: Well, that's the big question that we're all waiting for. You know, the AP yesterday reported that there was a third woman involved, Piers. So, you know, we are obviously still reporting, talking to sources.

You know, Mr. Cain has been defiant ever since we broke the story on Sunday night. And has said that, yes, there was an accusation by one woman but he's not talking about the other one. Nor the third one that the AP broke.

Tomorrow, though, Piers, could be interesting. Tomorrow, Friday, one of the women who has expressed some interest in -- if not going public at least putting out a statement for the media. The organization will decide tomorrow if they are going to authorize her lawyer to put out a statement on behalf of the woman.

Now keep in mind here, this woman is restricted right now from speaking because in the leaving the organization she signed this nondisclosure agreement so if the organization tomorrow decides that it would not be a breach of that contract for her to speak you could hear a statement pushing back against Mr. Cain tomorrow with this woman's side of the story.

MORGAN: And finally, and briefly if you don't mind, Jonathan, lots of rumors that this is all coming from the Rick Perry campaign team.

MARTIN: Right.

MORGAN: He has vociferously denied that in an interview, well, with John King today.


MORGAN: What do you say to that?

MARTIN: Well, we don't discuss our sources. I think that's a pretty common practice, Piers. You know, as you know for most journalists, so I'm not going to get in to that besides to say that we reported this story -- my colleagues and I -- over a three-week period talking to dozens of sources across the country and then ultimately the story about the two women itself, those details were taken from a half a dozen sources who knew various elements of those two cases.

So, you know, current and former staffers of the organization, current and former board members of the organization and sources here in Washington who work with the organization, Piers.

MORGAN: OK. Jonathan Martin, thank you very much.

MARTIN: Thank you, Piers.

MORGAN: So is -- is Herman Cain playing the race card in all this or not?

Joining me now is Larry Elder, host of his own radio show on KABC in Los Angeles and author of "What's Race Got to Do with It," and Randall Kennedy, professor at Harvard Law School and the author of "The Persistence of the Color Line: Racial Politics and the Obama Presidency."

Welcome to both of you. Let me start with you, Randall Kennedy, is Herman Cain playing the race card or is the race card being played against him here?

RANDALL KENNEDY, HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Well, to the extent that he has said that one of the reasons that this is coming up is because of race, it seems to me that he's using race as a propaganda weapon here.

After all, there's no evidence that racism is behind these allegations and typically speaking he seems to be pretty exacting in requiring some evidence before he's willing usually to say that there's racism.

Two weeks ago he said that race doesn't have much to do in the lives of black Americans, yet now without any basis for saying so he seems to be claiming that racism is behind these allegations in an attempt it seems to me to, you know, get the attention off of the allegations and on to something else.

MORGAN: Larry Elder, would you agree with that?

LARRY ELDER, HOST, "THE LARRY ELDER SHOW", KABC: I think that's right. I think he has played the race card and it's ill advised. What he should have said and would have been credible in saying is that there's a double standard. After all, Bill Clinton was accused of this and much more up to and including a credible accusation of rape.

There were lots of allegations about Bill Clinton earlier in the campaign and the media didn't seem to have the same kind of interest. Also Jesse Jackson was the frontrunner in the Democratic primary in 1988 and there were all sorts of rumors about Jessie Jackson being a serial philanderer. The media didn't seem to have much interest in that at all.

His wife went on "Life" magazine and said don't bring these allegations to me, I'm trying to raise a family, and all of a sudden the media went away. So he should have said there's a double standard. And double standard is not black and white, it's liberal versus conservative, Democrat versus Republican.

MORGAN: What is extraordinary, and I'll come back to you, Randall Kennedy here, is that he's raising lots of money, $1 million or more since Sunday when the scandal first broke. His popularity in the polling, in the latest polling is showing signs of increasing, as well. The public or much more crucially the people who will be voting for him as a nominee for the Republican Party don't seem to care very much. What do you make of that?

KENNEDY: Well, the people who like him like him a whole lot and I think that they are rallying to their man.

I think that Mr. Elder made a very good point a moment ago. It should be noted, though, that when you talk about a double standard it might very well be that the press has learned from its past experience. It may very well be that the press gave passes to people in -- you know historically and that they have learned that they ought not do that. And that they ought take more seriously allegations of this sort.

MORGAN: Well, Larry Elder, one of the things that I like about Herman Cain and other people clearly do, judging by the fundraising and the polls, is that he's not your average politician. Nothing about the way he has behaved in the last few months is the way you would expect a politician should behave, even down to the way he's handled the scandal.

ELDER: Right.

MORGAN: Yes, it's been a bit haphazard. Yes, it's been nonpolitical if you like, but there is something very human about Herman Cain which is resonating with people, isn't there?

ELDER: Absolutely. He's a guy who's down to earth. His father was a chauffeur. His mother was a domestic. He worked his way up from the bottom. He's never held elected office. People like that in an era of anti-incumbency.

But I want to address what Professor Kennedy just now said about the press having learned. If the press has learned I would ask him to explain why it is that Bill Clinton is held in such high regard?

This is a man again -- against whom a credible allegation of rape was made. Sexual assault. He settled for $800,000 in a sexual harassment lawsuit that he earlier said had no merit. He was impeached for lying under oath about what he had done with Monica Lewinsky, yet he is universally heralded by the Democrat Party. If sexual harassment is such a serious issue, I wonder why Bill Clinton is heralded that way he is.

MORGAN: Well, let me ask Randall Kennedy. I mean it's not a completely invalid point. Is it? I mean is there one rule for as some believe black conservative politicians and another rule for middle class white politicians?

KENNEDY: No, I think what's shown is that, you know, people have their bases and people who like politicians are willing to close their eyes to, you know, deficiencies for their man. And in this instance, people who generally talk about, you know, family values are willing it seems to -- be willing to give a pass to their man in this instance. MORGAN: OK. I want to have a quick double answer from both of you. I'll come to you, Randall Kennedy, first. And I want one word. Either yes or no to both of these questions.

Will Herman Cain survive the scandal? And will he be the GOP nominee in January?

Randall, you go first.

KENNEDY: No and no.

ELDER: Yes and no.


MORGAN: Well, it's certainly fascinating. One thing is for us, all we're talking about is Herman Cain and probably if you're Mitt Romney that's not such a great thing.

Thank you both very much for your time.

ELDER: Thank you.

KENNEDY: Thank you.

MORGAN: Coming up, the only man who can take a Madoff story and play it for laughs. (INAUDIBLE) comedy Ben Stiller in the new movie "Tower Heist."


MORGAN: Ben Stiller is one of Hollywood's most familiar faces and one of its biggest moneymakers. On the screen he's absolutely hilarious.

But is he hilarious off the screen? Well, no pressure, man.

STILLER: All right.

MORGAN: Off you go, man. Be funny.

STILLER: Thank you.

MORGAN: You hate doing these things, don't you?


STILLER: No. I don't hate -- it's -- they're fine. They're fine. I like you. I don't --

MORGAN: How do you know? We don't even know each other.

STILLER: I like the idea of you.


STILLER: I like how -- what I see of you on television.

MORGAN: What is the idea of me?

STILLER: Maybe it's not really you. Who are you really?

MORGAN: What do you think I am?

STILLER: Piers, when did it begin? The need to delve deep in people's souls?

MORGAN: I like doing that.

STILLER: You do?

MORGAN: And actually you like doing that. This is why I'm interesting in talking to you, because I have a theory that everyone who's funny has a massive ego born from chronic insecurity.

STILLER: Mm-hmm.

MORGAN: Here's what you said. "I think most actors have incredibly big egos but they're also incredibly insecure. It's a bad combination. I include myself in this group. Whatever psychological reasons we want and need approval from everyone in the universe although we think we're totally unworthy of it. We need to validate ourselves through work."


MORGAN: I -- this is absolutely my thesis on comedians.

STILLER: I was drunk when I said that.


STILLER: No, I mean, I think there's a certain amount of that that's true. You know, I mean, everybody is different. I think everybody has different motivations for doing what they do and why they do it, and I think sometimes it's a combination of different things. I don't think you even know inside all of it necessarily.

MORGAN: Do you like the pressure of having to be funny?

STILLER: No. Not at all.

MORGAN: And when you walk down the street, I can't even imagine what it's like for you.

STILLER: I don't consider myself that funny. You know, you made the joke in the beginning but I'm not really -- like I don't consider myself a funny guy in regular situations.

MORGAN: Do you know which of your 30 movies has grossed the most?

STILLER: The biggest? Probably -- one of the "Night at the Museum" maybe?

MORGAN: "Meet the Fockers."

STILLER: Really? Wow.

MORGAN: $280 million. Let's have a little clip and see why.


ROBERT DE NIRO, ACTOR: What did you do, Focker?

STILLER: Nothing. I think he needs to poop.

DE NIRO: That's the sign for poop. That's a sign for milk. This is the sign for poop.

STILLER: What's the sign for sour milk? That tastes a little funky.

DE NIRO: That's because that's from Debbie's left breast, Greg.


STILLER: That the -- that's where the laugh -- spit take. Spit take.

MORGAN: Did you ever imagine --

(CROSSTALK) STILLER: Spit good for $50 million. Right there.

MORGAN: I have to say, I mean, there you are. That's your biggest box office moment and you're basically daubing milk at Robert De Niro.

STILLER: That's where it is. Right. What does that tell you about your culture?

MORGAN: What does that tell you about anything?

STILLER: What does that tell you? I don't know. I mea it's -- you know, I love -- those movies, I had a great experience doing all those movies because I got to work with De Niro and that was always a dream for me but the first one for me is my favorite of those.

MORGAN: You grew up in a show business family.


MORGAN: Advantage or disadvantage?

STILLER: Well, it depends what you're talking about. I mean it's -- I think it's an advantage if you'd go in to show business because you have a sense of what you're going in to and you know the world and around it. So in that way, it's an advantage. So --

MORGAN: Well, and I mean --

STILLER: But then there's also -- then you have to kind to make your own way and, you know?

MORGAN: Yes. I mean, I suppose what I meant was I can see how having parents who are in the business can be helpful, advice and something else, but it also means there's no escape. I mean you were almost groomed for this role.

STILLER: Yes. I mean, you know, as a kid you grow up -- the world you grow up in is the world you grow up. And so you don't know anything else. And my sister and I really enjoyed that. I mean it was -- because it was fun. We got to stay up late and go -- my parents played nightclubs and went out to California and they did TV shows, and it was just -- it was fun. We did -- we liked that more than going to school.

MORGAN: They'd be married 57 years?


MORGAN: It's pretty amazing?


MORGAN: How do you think they've pulled that off, especially in entertainment? I mean it's almost unprecedented.

STILLER: They -- I think they truly -- I think they just truly love each other. I think that's the key there and they -- I don't know. They're like a -- they're like one organism now. They just -- the way they work together now comedically. They're just -- they play off each other. It's been -- they have so much experience together and --

MORGAN: You've been married 11 years.


MORGAN: You don't let your children watch your movies.

STILLER: No, that's not true.

MORGAN: Is that true?

STILLER: No, that's true.

MORGAN: Are there some you don't let them watch?

STILLER: Well, they -- first of all they're not that interested in watching my movies.


STILLER: I mean, I'm not -- I'm trying to get them to watch, you know, "Something About Mary" or something like that, because they're 9 and 6 so --

MORGAN: Could be a bit disturbing.

STILLER: But they -- you know, they watch the "Night at the Museum" movies and, you know, the kids' movies like "Madagascar."

MORGAN: Are they showing signs of comedic genius?

STILLER: They are -- they're very theatrical children, yes.

MORGAN: Do you love being a father?

STILLER: I love being a father. Yes. Oh my god, yes. That's -- I think it's like -- I mean, for me it's the best thing. It's challenging. And, you know, as any father will tell you.

MORGAN: Yes, I mean, in terms of your filming schedule, how do you juggle that with being a dad?

STILLER: You have to figure out how you're going to do it so that you make sure that you have the family time. Like right now, I'm working on a film out of town so I'll come back as much as I can on the weekends and then the time off is really important so we always take -- in the summer we take as much time off as possible as a family and go off together.

MORGAN: All comedians I meet seem to wrestle with demons. But you don't have many demons. I studied your life fairly carefully and it doesn't -- it's not that dark.

STILLER: I can't find the demons?

MORGAN: There's no darkness.

STILLER: No. I'm a boring -- I'm a boring demon-less person.


STILLER: No. I had -- we all have demons. It's just, you know, I think at the end of the day it's -- you know, it's what you -- what you do with your life, right, where you -- how you take what you have and then you're in the moment and all you have is the moment. So a lot of times in show business, I think you can get wrapped up and think, if that happened or this happened or this movie did well or that, or I got that opportunity, and ultimately you're just in the moment always so I think --

MORGAN: There's no evidence of alcoholism? Major drug abuse?

STILLER: It's well hidden.

MORGAN: Womanizing? I mean, you don't seem to do anything.

STILLER: All under the radar.

MORGAN: Just a nice, funny guy. STILLER: Yes. Nice funny -- sorry.

MORGAN: Is there anything you want to get off your chest? Anything you want to confess? Anything to chip away at the halo?

STILLER: Brian Grazer and I are having an affair.

MORGAN: Great. Because he's coming on in a moment.

STILLER: Yes. I know. And his hair --

MORGAN: Is it going well?

STILLER: I'm in love with his hair.


STILLER: I rub my cheek against his hair every morning.


STILLER: No. Things are going good.

MORGAN: Let's take a little break. Come back and talk about this new movie of yours, which is going to be a hit, I think.


MORGAN: Got a feeling.

STILLER: Good. All right. Thank you.



STILLER: Come on. Let's storm the castle together.

PENA: Oh, like when they went after Frankenstein.

STILLER: No. It's a different kind of storming. It's a storming where the peasants take everything back, you know, from like the feudal lords and --

BRODERICK: I'm in. I'm in.

PENA: I'm in.

CASEY AFFLECK, ACTOR: Well, now we're undefeatable, aren't we?


MORGAN: Ben Stiller's latest movie "Tower Heist."

Why are you laughing there?

STILLER: I was laughing that you always show the person watching themselves.

MORGAN: Yes. Hoping you're going to be absolutely hilarious you know.


MORGAN: Rather than just --


MORGAN: It's my new blockbuster movie. You've made so many of them.

STILLER: Well, yes, but not really.

MORGAN: Are you excited by this one? "Tower Heist"?

STILLER: I'm really excited because it's actually -- it's a genre of movie that I've never been in. A heist movie. So that was one of the reasons I want to do it.

MORGAN: Let me say, it's a great caper but it's also fantastically well timed.


MORGAN: But can you imagine this movie coming out with "Occupy Wall Street" kicking off all over the country? It couldn't be better timed.

We're going to find out now if this is a popular movement or not by your ratings.

STILLER: I guess so. All right. If you want to -- you know, if you want to do it that way. I mean, I feel like the movie is reflective of the situation we're in economically and when we started working on the movie it was like that.

I didn't even think we were -- we'd still be in this situation when we were making the film and when the movie came out. We were -- I didn't know.

MORGAN: Because I thought it was basically nice guys get done in by capitalistic fat cat greedy get (ph).


MORGAN: And then seek horrific revenge.

STILLER: Which is sort of a timeless concept.


STILLER: Yes. And it does happen to be indicative of where we're at now and also just a good heist movie. Just like a fun, fun sort of New York reality-based heist comedy. MORGAN: When you say the guys down at Wall Street protesting, does it resonate with you? Because you've been pretty political over the years.

STILLER: Yes. I mean, the particular thing that's going on there now I think I'm -- we have a lot of people trying to figure out exactly what it is, what the focus of it is, but it's definitely an expression of frustration that's going on that's I think very valid in the country right now.

MORGAN: What's going on with your country?

STILLER: Oh wow.

MORGAN: There's a starting point for you.

STILLER: I think -- I think we're in a tough place and I think we're -- I mean, it's a very complicated situation and I as an actor and, you know, just someone who's not an expert don't pretend to know any answers, but I feel like, you know, we've inherited a bad situation over the last eight years, and Obama's in a very tough position. And I think, you know, it's -- in ways, it's been frustrating to see that we haven't gotten further than, I think we would have hoped, in the last few years.

MORGAN: He disappointed you, Obama?

STILLER: I -- I'm a -- I'm disappointed that we haven't seen more bold decisions from him and a willingness, I think, to maybe stick to more of what he had, in his campaign, had said in terms of what he was willing to do.


STILLER: -- but I -- but I, you know, being president is something I would never in a million years want.

MORGAN: You wanted to be a comedic actor. I mean, you've done a great job at it. He wanted to be a politician. No one's holding a gun to his head.

STILLER: He also wanted to be a comedic actor.


STILLER: Yes, no, I mean -- but, sure, but you know, who would have known that he was going to inherit the situation that he inherited. So --

MORGAN: He's a very smart guy. He had so much goodwill. And he's just been, I think, slightly reluctant to beat his chest and do what he probably really wants to do. But I'm like, come on, you're the president. You can do what you like.

STILLER: But it seems like the, you know, the reality of the deal-making that goes in Washington to actually get things done is so complicated that it's hard to know what the actual reality of it is.

MORGAN: You have raised a lot of money for Haiti and put your money where your mouth -- you've been down there.

Tell me about Haiti now. I mean, why does it still motivate you?

STILLER: I went down there for the first time before the earthquake, and it was in such a bad situation that I wanted to try to do something to help there.

And then the earthquake happened, and it just, you know, it just -- what they've had to deal with is just -- you know, it's unfair that the natural disasters, the economic situation, the whole history of the country.

So, when you see people like Sean and people like Paul Farmer, Partners In Health, what -- the work they're doing, I wanted to try to support that. So that's when we had this auction to raise money.

MORGAN: What do you feel about people who criticize celebrities for helping the stuff like that, the criticism being you're just doing it to promote yourself?

STILLER: Well, I think everybody's entitled to their opinion. But you know, if you're not going to use the access to have to people for something you believe in, if you want to say something, I think you should be allowed to say it, you know?

And I think, you know, something like Haiti, where it's a place that they have this horrible earthquake happen, six weeks later, the attention of the world moves on. And if you have a chance to be able to talk on a show like this and remind people what's going on down there, that there's 600,000 people still living in tents and, you know, 20 months, 21 months later --

MORGAN: In desperate conditions, I mean --


MORGAN: -- the thing about Haiti is that -- my only beef with some celebrities is they lasso themselves to these causes for a week. They get a cheap headline, and then they move on, and actually know, in this situation remains desperate.

STILLER: Yes. That's why, to me, someone like Sean is so amazing, because he literally was living down there for the better part of a year, and, you know, putting -- walking the walk and doing the work and -- but I do think it's, you know, if you're not an expert, you're just an actor, that you can say, hey, remember Haiti on a television show, and it helps. It helps in some ways.

MORGAN: Well, you just said it. It helps.

STILLER: Thank you.

MORGAN: Let's go to break and bring out one of your costars from this "Heist" caper, Matthew Broderick.

STILLER: All right.


Hi, Ben.

MORGAN: Welcome.



BRODERICK: Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

I do have a test today that wasn't (EXPLETIVE DELETED). It's on European socialism. I mean, really what the point? I'm not European. I don't plan on being social. So who gives a crap if they're socialist? They can be fascist anarchists.


BRODERICK: I didn't know what I was saying, by the way.

MORGAN: Matthew Broderick and his breakout hit, "Ferris Bueller's Day Off," 25 years ago you made that movie.


MORGAN: And every interview you've done ever since you made that movie you've had to talk about "Ferris Bueller's Day Off."


MORGAN: You must be sick of it, aren't you?

BRODERICK: Not at all.

MORGAN: Are you being honest?

BRODERICK: Sometimes I'm sick of it. But I'm used to it. It's like an old sweater. I --


MORGAN: Have you grown -- have you grown to be affectionate towards it --

BRODERICK: I have great affection --

MORGAN: -- with the passage of time?

BRODERICK: Wait a minute. I'm affectionate toward the movie or the passage of time in general?

MORGAN: Both. You could be affectionate to both.


MORGAN: But I meant the passage of time of the movie.


BRODERICK: I'm amazed that it's lasted as long as it has, and I'm, you know, I'm used to it that people still care about it and I'm thrilled that they do.

MORGAN: It's absolutely classic.


MORGAN: I want to dig a bit deeper into Mr. Stiller here. I mean, he professes to be this kind of angelic character.

BRODERICK: Yes. None of that is true.

MORGAN: Well, I heard on the set, he can be difficult.


MORGAN: Is this true?

STILLER: Now it comes out.

BRODERICK: No, it's not true.

MORGAN: Perfectionist? Also a polite way of putting it.

BRODERICK: Well, perfectionist is not bad. It's, you know, he's extremely hardworking. He's also right here. And --

MORGAN: Very fine line between perfectionist and --

BRODERICK: Ben also directed me. So, I have two perspectives on Ben. He directed "The Cable Guy," which I was in. And he was never difficult. He is a perfectionist, very hardworking.

MORGAN: Any tantrums?


MORGAN: We were talking about the business, show business earlier.


MORGAN: What do you think of it? You've had a long time to assess it.

BRODERICK: Yes. Well, it's -- you know, it's always been a mix of commerce and art. And they -- those two things battle each other. When it goes -- when both things come together, it's wonderful. I love a big commercial great movie.

MORGAN: But you get more pleasure personally from one of your big Broadway hits, because you have that instant sort of visceral reaction from an audience -- that you just can never get with a movie or a TV show.

BRODERICK: It's very different, yes. There's nothing, you know, it's incredibly thrilling to have the audience right there, and to do the whole part all the way through. You really feel an ownership to it, which is great.

It's -- and the adrenaline -- Ben does that, too -- but then, again, I -- when I -- after I've done that for a while, I love the intimacy of a movie, where I'm not worrying so much about an audience is right there, and I get to just be a little quieter and put more close-up, in a way.

STILLER: And we both grew up around it in New York and Matthew was successful a lot earlier than I was. I used to like go on auditions for like the -- you know, to play the understudy in the role that he had left two years earlier.

MORGAN: No, I've heard a great thing about you. You reminded me.


MORGAN: You've had some terrible auditions.

STILLER: Yes, horrible.

MORGAN: You saw this guy fluffing all these auditions and you were beating him --


MORGAN: Yes. Did you ever imagine in your wildest nightmares that he'd turn into this --

BRODERICK: I know, megastar.

MORGAN: -- monstrous, box office megastar?

BRODERICK: It's like a nightmare.

MORGAN: For the worse in any way, a little chink in the armor that we could do?

BRODERICK: Not that I have found.

STILLER: Keeps on trying to get that chisel. Here's Morgan, chiseling to the soul.

MORGAN: He might well be as nice as you see? You might be. I've kind of rule out the possibility.


MORGAN: I think it's time to bring up people that may be more candid with me about --


MORGAN: -- your temper tantrums.

STILLER: Good. Bring them out.

MORGAN: Because these are the producer and director of "Tower Heist" and I reckon they've got a few stories to tell.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was on the job when my homey was shot in the face.

STILLER: He's kidding, right? The shot in the head, it's over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you get shot in your head it's over. If you get shot in your face, the bullet will go in your cheek and come out the other side. Then what will you do?

STILLER: Die. I'm going to die. I saw a television show once about a guy shot in the head with a nail gun. Couldn't remember how to chew anymore. He had to put everything in a blender.


MORGAN: That's "Tower Heist," Ben and Matthew's new film. And joined now by the producer, Brian Grazer; director, Brett Ratner.

Gentlemen, welcome.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, thank you. Thanks for having us.

MORGAN: Let's not beat about the bush. Let's just -- I need some stuff on Ben Stiller.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mean bad things about him?

MORGAN: Things you've heard. It doesn't have to true. All the unsubstantiated rumors from the set.

Is he as -- is he as squeaky clean as he's trying to make out?

BRIAN GRAZER, DIRECTOR: As far I'm concerned, he is.


GRAZER: He's a big movie star, so what are you going to say? Whatever it is - whatever is good I'm going to say. MORGAN: Brian, what I love about you is that you can absolutely crush Mr. Stiller with pure box office statistics, because your global gross is over $13 billion from all your movies compared to his relatively paltry $5 billion.


MORGAN: Unbelievable.


MORGAN: Is anybody, do you think, in Hollywood, left who's got a better record than that?

GRAZER: I'm sure there's --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Little guy, Steven Spielberg --


MORGAN: Would he beat that?


MORGAN: Maybe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he would, for sure.

MORGAN: Tell me about "Tower Heist." Great fun. I've watched last night, I really enjoyed it.

It is -- it is funny. It's smart. And I love the fact that it's so timely, you know, with all that's going on. We were talking earlier about "Occupy Wall Street." I mean, literally, you got lucky, because clearly this -- the financial thing was bubbling under when you started this. But in terms of a --


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- "Occupy Wall Street" actually.

MORGAN: Well, yes, but in terms of a plot line, it's perfect.

STILLER: Wouldn't that be horrible if Comcast was behind "Occupy Wall Street?"


GRAZER: They're the 1 percent.

MORGAN: Well, Brian, you tell me about what's going on down there, from your point of view. I mean, you're an American. You've been around the block a few times. You've seen a few ups and downs in financial, but nothing quite like this.

GRAZER: Well, no, not anything like this, other than, what, three years ago, we had the -- but, basically, I think, people are just mad at -- they're mad. They're mad as hell.

MORGAN: Your understanding.

GRAZER: Not entirely, because they're not -- they don't have a specific message that they're saying. I wish that -- I wish there were --


MORGAN: Sort of outpouring of general dissatisfaction.

GRAZER: Well, I think what's happened is we've bailed the banks out. Then we -- then we gave -- we gave them -- first, we went after the rich. Then we bailed them out. And now, they're ahead again, and I think that --

MORGAN: And giving themselves whacking big bonuses again.

GRAZER: Right. And the working class is upset about it. They're -- I mean, the working class is the majority of the country. So they're upset.

And it's the schematics of that intersect with the schematics of our movie, oddly enough.

MORGAN: Who did you base the bad guy on? Because you have a -- you have a character in mind.

GRAZER: Well, Madoff. We did.

But there's so many people that are like that.


GRAZER: There's accountants, there's lawyers, there's business managers.

There -- you know, anytime anyone makes a dollar, they have to give it to someone, or they give it directly to a bank. When they give it to someone that gets lost in the malaise of language that they don't understand.

MORGAN: How important -- let me ask you, Brett. How important is someone like Ben to a movie now?

BRETT RATNER, DIRECTOR, "TOWER HEIST": Put it this way: we developed the movie -- Brian and I developed the movie for several years. It was actually Eddie Murphy's idea. And there was a few parts to fill.

And I said to Brian, how do we get this movie made? And he says to me, "Go get the biggest comedy star in the world." And I said, "Who's that?" And he says, "Ben Stiller." So --

MORGAN: The frat master, as you'll know him.

STILLER: You said I was right for the part.


STILLER: I thought you wanted me as an actor. Nobody else could play this part.


MORGAN: This guy thought he got it because he's a brilliant actor.

RATNER: It was part -- yes. It was partly dirty.


MORGAN: The only way they could get it made.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that's not true.


MORGAN: Nothing more.

RATNER: The truth is it's not a cheap movie. You know, we wanted to be. But Ben and I were on the same page as far as the type of movie we wanted to make. And I thought that he was the perfect guy for the part.

MORGAN: If it doesn't work out, it all becomes his fault?

RATNER: Not at all.


MORGAN: Let's have a break and come back and talk all things Eddie Murphy, what he's like to work with, what the hell are you going to do at the Oscars. I can't wait for this.



MORGAN: That was a scene in the new film "Tower Heist," starring, amongst the gathering here, Eddie Murphy.

What a great vehicle for him. It reminded me of "Beverly Hills Cop," that kind of persona back.

Talk me through Eddie. He had the idea for the movie to start with.

RATNER: Yes, Eddie pitched Brian and I the idea, and I'd been wanting to work with him since I was a kid. I've been such a big fan. And Brian had done maybe five, six movies with him?

GRAZER: Yes, total of six movies. RATNER: Six movies with him. And we just thought this was a perfect opportunity to work with him. And, I mean, "Rush Hour," the movie I directed previously, which was a huge hit, wouldn't have existed if it wasn't for Eddie Murphy. I mean, Eddie Murphy kind of paved the way --

MORGAN: You're doing the Oscars.

RATNER: I'm producing the Oscars.

MORGAN: And Eddie is hosting the Oscars.

RATNER: Yes, yes.

MORGAN: A recipe for comedic carnage.

RATNER: Well, you know, Brian's a good friend, and I said, Brian, you know, if you were producing the Oscars, what would you do? And Brian said -- well, think about in the past, the best host, the three best hosts that have ever existed have been Bob Hope, Johnny Carson and Billy Crystal. So basically he was saying to me, go get a comedian.

MORGAN: I agree.

RATNER: And I -- and I happened to be looking at Eddie Murphy every day, working --

MORGAN: Ben was not available?

RATNER: Ben wasn't -- no, this was after we wrapped the movie. Ben's busy filming multiple movies at the --

STILLER: Yes, and also Eddie is -- I mean, he is a brilliant standup comedian and hasn't done standup for, what, 20-something years? And that is --

MORGAN: It's one of big moment --


MORGAN: -- one of the great comebacks of all time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it -- right. I mean, like, we think it will be.

MORGAN: I mean, I saw the interview he did with you -- very funny -- saying that it was going to be the worst Oscars host, you know. He also said, I'm going to urinate over everyone --


MORGAN: Did he -- did he, someone like you, feel intimidated?


MORGAN: Working with someone like that?

STILLER: Yes, because Eddie has been -- he's iconic for, you know, the last 25 years. So -- and I had never really met him. I'd met him a couple of times. So to be working with somebody who, you know, their body of work is that great, and it sort of precedes them, you want to try to be on your best game when you come in.

And you don't know what it's -- what's going to happen. And then he's -- then he goes. And when he goes, it's like you're watching in, you know, Eddie Murphy live, because you're getting "Eddie Murphy Raw" for like two feet away from you.

MORGAN: That is intimidating.

STILLER: That's intimidating but also thrilling. It's also great.

RATNER: Ben is probably one of the few actors in the world that could stand toe-to-toe with Eddie. I mean, he stood toe-to-toe with him.

STILLER: Well, but you just -- when Eddie does his thing, it's -- you just want to be there. And you know, what I like about him is that he's in the scene. It's about the scene for him. But I've never worked with anybody like that who has that much focus and -- you said it -- energy coming out of him, and you're just like, wow, this is like -- it's -- you bring down the barrel.


MORGAN: Brian, you're doing a movie with Clint Eastwood.


MORGAN: A J. Edgar Hoover movie. Tell me about that briefly.

GRAZER: Well, I was just, you know, I've -- I'm fascinated with J. Edgar Hoover. He was the -- really the founder of the FBI, started in 1935 and went and he had something on six different presidents that kept him in office for almost 50 years.

So -- and he's




STILLER: No, I'll pass. I want to -- I want to see that movie.

RATNER: "J. Edgar" will be coming out a week after "Tower Heist."

GRAZER: A week after "Tower Heist." Directed by Clint Eastwood, starring Leo DiCaprio, yes. (CROSSTALK)

GRAZER: He's not funny, DiCaprio.


GRAZER: Certainly not funny in the role.

MORGAN: He's supposed to be mean, moody and magnificent. Funny (INAUDIBLE) get the checkbook out and he's -

STILLER: Is there cross-dressing? That's what everyone wants to know. Leo in a dress? Get Leo in a dress?

GRAZER: We've got it.


MORGAN: Who are greatest actors you've ever seen?


GRAZER: Other than the two of these guys?

MORGAN: (INAUDIBL) get people from the acting world together, I'm always fascinated who is the actor's actor, who's the one -- if you could cast one leading man in the last movie you ever make, who would it be?

GRAZER: I can't do it.



MORGAN: You've got to -- you've got to give me a name, because you've worked with all of them.

GRAZER: I like working with Denzel Washington, thought he was great. He did -- I did "Inside Man" with him, "American Gangster" with him.

I have worked with de Niro.

So I've -- so I've worked with some really, really good actors. I'd like to work with Sean Penn. I haven't worked with Sean Penn. I'm friendly with him.

MORGAN: I'm going to be working with Denzel Washington.

GRAZER: Are you?

MORGAN: In a movie, my first movie role. I'm playing myself in this very studio.

GRAZER: It is a Robert Zemeckis movie? MORGAN: Yes.

GRAZER: Is it?



MORGAN: It's going to be really good.

GRAZER: It's going to be great.

MORGAN: So I've got the call-up. I'm signed up, and I'm going to be a movie star.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulations.

MORGAN: Won't be seeing any of you again. This will be great.

And I think he's fantastic, Denzel Washington.

GRAZER: Yes, so do I.

MORGAN: But "Tower Heist" is fantastic. I think it's going to be a big hit. I think it's going to be a great comeback for Eddie.

But I think, for you guys, I think you've -- it's a great caper film at its heart, isn't it? There hasn't been a good one like that for a long time.

GRAZER: It's a lot of fun. Thank you very much.


MORGAN: And the halo remains, tragically.


MORGAN: I threw my best shots. But it didn't work. Tower Heist, coming out, in movie theaters very soon.

Thank you, gentlemen.


MORGAN: Very amusing gentlemen. And "Tower Heist" opens tomorrow. And it's very funny.

Coming up tomorrow, one of the greatest singers I've ever heard and one of the most successful. Not Lady Gaga, not Beyonce. Her last album sold better than both of them. She's, of course the extraordinary one-off, Susan Boyle.

I was there at the beginning and (INAUDIBLE) everybody away with an amazing voice on "Britain's Got Talent." And I can tell you, it gave me goose bumps then, and still does now. And she'll do it right again here, singing a song from her new album. That's Susan Boyle in the studio tomorrow.

That's it for us. "A.C. 360" starts right now.