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Cain and His Accusers; Challenging the Syrian Regime's Propaganda

Aired November 8, 2011 - 20:00   ET



Good evening, everyone. We begin tonight "Keeping Them Honest."

Herman Cain stepped up today to deny any and all sexual harassment allegations against him by any and every accuser, period. None of it happened, he says, period.

What's more, he says he has no memory, none at all, of Sharon Bialek, the woman who came forward yesterday and accused him of groping her while offering her a job if she let him go further. He called Miss Bialek, quote, "a troubled woman brought forth by the Democratic machine," unquote.

His lawyer this evening and his campaign earlier today attacking Bialek. And at the same time Mr. Cain is saying he doesn't remember her.


HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I tried to remember if I recognized her, and I didn't. I tried to remember if I remembered that name, and I didn't. The charges and the accusations I absolutely reject. They simply didn't happen. They simply did not happen.


COOPER: So it did not happen, and he doesn't remember her. Both statements categorical. The second is simple to check. Bialek claims Cain took her to dinner and upgraded her hotel room. There are credit card statements, no doubt, expense reports, hotel phone records. You can bet that right now every news organization, ours included, is doing whatever it can to find the facts.

But even as Herman Cain denied even knowing Sharon Bialek, his initial accuser came forward. Her name, it turns out, is Karen Kraushaar. One of two women who files complaints against Cain and received monetary settlements from the National Restaurant Association. She works at the Treasury Department. She's a career civil servant and a registered Republican though she did give $250 to the Democratic National Commit in 2009.

Today Cain said he did remember her and identified her as the only woman he remembers any kind of encounter with, one he calls totally innocent.


CAIN: Well, I can only recall one thing that I was aware of that was called sexual harassment. The one thing that I remember, that I remembered during the day when all of this broke loose is that one day in my office at the National Restaurant Association, I was standing next to Miss Kraushaar and I gestured standing near her like this, you're the same height as my wife, because my wife comes up to my chin.

That was the one gesture that I remember.


COOPER: Herman Cain painting a very G-rated encounter with Kraushaar and adding her allegations were found baseless and the money paid her was a part of a termination agreement, not some kind of claim settlement.


CAIN: When the firestorm started a week ago Monday, I was presented with the accusation of some settlement was made. Settlement to me means that there were legal implications. Later during that same day, I then recall after all those years that there was an agreement. That's what businesses sign with employees who are departing the company.

They call it an agreement. Settlement implies legal implications. All of the potential legal implications or ramifications or accusations were found to be baseless.


COOPER: "Keeping Them Honest," we don't know whether the Restaurant Association's investigation found the allegations baseless or not. Miss Kraushaar's attorney says his client's claims have merit that are consistent, in his words, of, quote, "multiple incidents over multiple days that constituted sexual harassment," unquote.

Now clearly someone is not telling the truth, Mr. Cain or his accusers -- multiple accusers. As GOP strategist Alex Castellanos said today, this isn't just a he said-she said story, it's a he said- she said, she said and she said story.

And as Herman Cain was denying everything today, a friend of the other woman who settled with the NRA spoke out. She said her friend told her that -- that just as in Sharon Bialek's alleged encounter Cain angled a job opportunity as he allegedly made sexual overtures. According to this friend, the accuser said it was well known that Cain behaved badly. That accuser so far is staying anonymous.

Two have now publicly come forward, and today Herman Cain hinted that there may yet be other allegations by other accusers. He said any and all of them would be untrue. He also said he'd be willing to take a polygraph test while saying in the very same breath, he won't.


UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As distasteful as it might be, would you be willing to do a lie detector test to prove your honesty in something like this?

CAIN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Even though I'm sure -- go ahead.

CAIN: Yes, I absolutely would, but I'm not going to do that unless I have a good reason to do that.


COOPER: Let's bring in our political panel. Chief political analyst Gloria Borger who's been breaking news almost daily on the Cain story. Also political contributor and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona who says she's a friend of Cain accuser Karen Kraushaar.

And former White House press secretary in the GW -- George W. Bush administration, Ari Fleischer. You can follow him on Twitter @Arifleischer.

Maria Cardona, you -- you know this woman Karen Kraushaar. What did she tell you about Mr. Cain?

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, she didn't go into the allegations, Anderson, because clearly she didn't want to relive this as she has had to now on an hourly basis, but she did say something very similar to what Joel said, which is that they were sexual harassment gestures and they happened repeatedly.

What I can tell you is that when I hired her at the INS she came directly --

COOPER: You hired this woman?

CARDONA: Correct. I hired her when I was communications director at the INS in the last two years of the Clinton administration. And she came to the INS directly from the National Restaurant Association, and what she told me recently -- I was not aware of this back at the time.

I know that she's always been very grateful to me for having hired her at the time. She has told me recently that -- she said, Maria, now you know why I have been so grateful to you all this time for hiring me when you did at the INS because you have saved me from this monster.

Clearly she was talking about Mr. Cain and everything that she endured while she was working there.

COOPER: Wait. She described him as what? What was the word? CARDONA: She said, you have saved me from this monster, indicating everything that she had had to endure while she was working with Mr. Cain at the National Restaurant Association.

COOPER: So she is clearly saying that it is more than just this incident that Mr. Cain recounted of comparing her height to his wife's height?

CARDONA: Absolutely. No doubt about that, that what she is saying is that a lot more occurred.

COOPER: Maria, the Cain campaign sent out a message this morning entitled, "Who is Karen Bialek," that's the other woman who made the accusation yesterday. They said, quote, "As Miss Sharon Bialek has placed herself in the public spotlight through making patently false allegations against Herman Cain, it's only fair to compare her track record alongside Mr. Cain's."

Then they list her debts, court cases, attacking the accuser. Is this kind of thing that Karen Kraushaar was worried about -- and one reason why she wanted to stay anonymous?

CARDONA: Well, I think that's one reason, Anderson. But I think that anybody who understands these things, not wanting to come out publicly, first of all, you don't want to relive a nightmare situation that happened a long time ago. Secondly, she is concerned about her personal safety, and that of her family.

You know, but thirdly, she doesn't want to go through this because she is a classy, professional individual. She doesn't want to be, if she can -- if she can avoid it, she doesn't want to be at a microphone talking about lurid gestures that she says happened when she worked for Mr. Cain at the National Restaurant Association.

I think all of those things put together, any woman can understand why she wouldn't want to come out publicly to talk about this.

COOPER: Has she told you what these lurid gestures were?

CARDONA: She was not -- she did not go into detail with me, Anderson, again because -- and I didn't want to make her relive this because she has had to now repeatedly. So she did not go into that kind of detail with me.

COOPER: Gloria, Herman Cain said today accusations were investigated and found to be baseless. We know there were payouts. Is there any evidence that he was somehow cleared, as he indicated?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: No, in fact, when the National Restaurant Association issued a statement last week they did not make any mention of the results of their internal investigation. So we really don't know. And I think Mr. Cain could really clear this up if he wanted to by saying to his former employers there and to the board there, look, release my employment records. Let it be known that when you did your own internal investigation this was cleared, and I waive my confidentiality.

So he's been saying it's baseless. And that's, I think, Anderson, quite frankly, why you see these women coming out because they feel that it impugns their own integrity when he says these claims were baseless and they were just paid sort of go away money. They say their charges were real.

COOPER: Gloria, he's making a distinction between some sort of settlement and just an agreement, an end of employment agreement.

BORGER: Right. Right.

COOPER: If there was a large payout or $45,000 or $35,000 or however much and -- I mean is there -- is there really a distinction between a settlement and an agreement?

BORGER: Well, I think in these women's minds there certainly isn't. I spoke today with a good friend of one of the women who said to me that, in fact, at the time after the woman went to her bosses and said, look, you know, we have this problem, that they gave her some options.

But she did not want to leave her job, Anderson. She liked her job, but she wasn't going to get the promotion she thought she should have gotten and she felt it was because of this sexual harassment issue and that they laid out some options in front of her.

One of them was go away, and we sort of acknowledge what happened to you, but here's some money and you should leave the National Restaurant Association. That was the option that she ended up taking. But they say -- these women would say this is not severance pay in any way, shape or form. This is a settlement for sexual harassment claims.

COOPER: Ari, last week he pointed fingers at Rick Perry's campaign. I want you to take a listen to something he said today.


CAIN: Nine days ago, the media started to beat me up covering anonymous accusers. The fact is, these anonymous allegations are false and now the Democrat machine in America has brought forth a troubled woman to make false accusations, statements, many of which exceed common sense. And they certainly exceed the standards of decency in America.


COOPER: What do you make of his stand now, the idea that this is a Democratic machine plot?

ARI FLEISCHER, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I don't see any evidence that this is part of a Democratic machine. I think you've got a bunch of women who've made cases and it's entered the political arena and then it becomes a war where they make accusations and he's trying to defend himself. You know, Anderson, you just almost get this helpless feeling that we're all stuck. It's a classic he said-she said. He said, she said, and then we have two she's who are on the record and put their name out there and have said it, two of who are anonymous, and that's difficult to defend against anonymous allegations.

But there are two now who have taken that courageous step. And none of us are going to ever know the truth, I suspect, unless all these investigators can either poke holes in the stories or they find someone that corroborates it. I don't know how.

But it's almost a helpless feeling. It's sad that politics has come to this point for him. But I also noticed that, you know, today he denied it, he denied it on the record, he was unwavering and his campaign put out a tweet just before your show aired. They raised almost $1 million since this news conference today.

So he clearly has a lot of people who still believe in him and are still dedicated to Herman Cain.

COOPER: Gloria, do you think this news conference or press conference -- do you think it helped him? Because I mean he -- as Ari pointed out, and rightly so, I mean he is saying there is no ifs, ands or buts here. It's either, you know, they are completely wrong or he is.

BORGER: Yes, and I think it's interesting that he's raised so much money since his press conference. Look, it's clear people are getting dug in. And the people who believe him, believe him and the people who don't, don't.

I think What Karen Kraushaar is thinking about doing is getting all these women together in a joint press conference with their attorneys so they can talk exactly about what happened at the National Restaurant Association together. And that may have some impact, but you know, his unfavorable ratings have doubled among Republicans in the last month. But his core supporters may decide they still want to rally around him.

COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there. Gloria, Maria, Ari, thank you very much.

Let us know what you think. We want to let you know we're on Google Plus. We hope you'll add us to your circles. And plus on our page, you can join the conversation there. Of course we're on Facebook. Follow me on Twitter as well @Andersoncooper. I'll be tweeting tonight.

Up Next, Syria's lies. More deadly violence. Despite the government's promise there to stop the blood shed. Their lies caught on camera. Yet again new video showing the fighting far from over. We're "Keeping Them Honest."

Also "Crime & Punishment." The sex abuse scandal rocking Penn State's football program. A former defensive coordinator is accused of raping several boys. Two top university officials have stepped down accused of not notifying police about it. Will legendary football coach Joe Paterno be the next to resign? A live report ahead.

First, let's check in with Isha -- Isha.

ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, a new twist tonight in the "News of the World" phone hacking scandal. A new report says the now- defunct tabloid also hired a private eye to spy on Prince William and other high profile people.

That story and much more when 360 continues.


COOPER: "Keeping Them Honest" again tonight, what is the word of a brutal dictatorship worth -- worth these day? The answer when it comes to Syria's Assad regime is self-evident. And every day the evidence piles up.

Ordinary people fleeing gunfire in the streets of Homs. Eight people reported killed today across the country. More yesterday. Nineteen more dead on Sunday.

What you're about to see is graphic. I want to warn you. The dead literally piling up in Homs and elsewhere. Victims of a crackdown that's taken depending on who you ask anywhere from 3500 to 4,000 lives since the anti-regime protest began last spring.

Last week the regime, which all along has blamed the uprising on outsiders, on criminal elements, on radical Sunni Iraqis, you name it, finally, if only implicitly, admitted it was indeed killing ordinary civilians by promising to stop.

The dictator Bashar al-Assad reached an agreement with the Arab League to stop targeting protesters and release political prisoner. Here he is praying on Sunday to mark the beginning of the hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca.

But as he was praying on his knees, his troops and snipers were preying on protesters.

This is precisely what Assad promised just days ago not to do. The regime is now blaming the current violence on America, by the way. And in the days since he made his pledge, scores of Syrians have died.

As always these videos come to us from YouTube. We can't independently confirm what you're seeing because Syrian officials don't let us see for ourselves.

In a moment, though, you're going to hear from a western journalist who managed to sneak into Syria. Her story and others along with the daily flood of videos exposed the official government line for what it truly is.

Take a look at this interview from back in August.


BASHER JA'AFARI, SYRIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: The government is not running against the civilians. These civilians are our own people. We are there to protect them.

COOPER: And the government is killing them.

JA'AFARI: The government is running against the terrorist armed groups.

COOPER: What terrorist armed groups? Who are they? Who are they? Name them.

JA'AFARI: We are running after these terrorists armed groups.

COOPER: Who are they?

JA'AFARI: Yes. Those who -- those who have killed so far 500 officials and soldiers of our army. And police officers. And police soldiers. And security forces.

COOPER: OK. Again you haven't named who these --

JA'AFARI: Five hundred victims --

COOPER: Who these unnamed, mysterious armed terrorist are.

JA'AFARI: They are the outcomes of the American, British invasion of Iraq, Anderson. They are the Salafis, they are the Takaris groups, they are the Brother Muslim military wing. They are all these kind of extremist groups in the area. All of them spread all over the area after the American and British invasion of Iraq.

COOPER: But you have had a -- I mean your government has been in power since 2000. Before that Bashar al-Assad's father was in charge, a very -- you know, restrictive governments. It seems incomprehensible that all of a sudden you have thousands of Salafis who are calling for the overthrow of the government.

It just doesn't make logical sense. I mean are you denying that there were peaceful protests -- that there the -- that there are peaceful protesters who have legitimate gripes, who have legitimate demands for basic dignity and freedom?

JA'AFARI: The government allowed peaceful demonstrations to take to the street and they are protected by the police --



COOPER: It just simply not true. As you can imagine that was the first and last time Syria's ambassador agreed to come on the program. We'd love to have him back any time. We'd like to ask him what he makes of this. Troops on the streets of Homs after his government agreed to stop the crackdown on that city. Resident there and today's "New York Times" describing, quote, "harrowing scenes of abandoned streets and relentless gunfire."

The sound of promises being broken, perhaps.

Then again, this is the regime where promises are broken all the time along with the bodies of people old and young alike. We show you again this video. This is Hamza, taken, tortured, mutilated, even as the Assad regime was blaming the unrest on hardened criminals and outsiders.

Hamza was just a teenage boy.

This is a regime where people who speak out and bystanders alike are reduced to human cargo. Beaten, bloodied, stuffed into a car trunk, taken away to be tortured and killed. This is what the regime promised to stop and this is how they're breaking that promise.

As we said, the regime does all of it, all it can, to keep western eyes from seeing these atrocities. Every once in a while, though, a journalist manages to sneak in. Ramita Navai is a reported for PBS' "Frontline." She spent two weeks inside Syria this summer where she saw as part of a new documentary airing tonight.

I spoke to her earlier.


COOPER: How were you able to get into Syria?

We got tourist visas. We were really lucky. Lots of journalists have been turned down. And we got really lucky.

COOPER: You captured a lot on video and it's truly extraordinary. Because, I mean, really the only images we've been able to get out of Syria are these cell phone camera images which protesters have been taking. You were actually in a house and nearby houses were being raided by militia. I want to play some of that.


RAMITA NAVAI, REPORTER, "FRONTLINE": (INAUDIBLE) so I'm putting the camera away.

We hid our camera but used a cell phone to film. I could hear the screams from next door as the militia raided the house. A mother was pleading with them not to take her son.


COOPER: I mean, it really gives you a sense of the fear that people live in every day. What is it -- what is it like for dissidents there? What is it like for the protesters? NAVAI: They live as fugitive. They live on the run. Many of them haven't seen their families for months and months. And they live going from safehouse to safehouse on the run.

COOPER: You know, the Syrian regime, which has been lying about an awful lot and lying for months, you know, they say these are terrorists, that these are armed groups.

NAVAI: Yes, well, that's rubbish. We didn't meet any terrorists. None of the protesters we met were armed. We saw thousands protesting, men, women and children. These are ordinary people. So the guys that we were with in the safehouse, two of them were college graduates.

COOPER: We've heard a lot of stories from people I've talked to on this program, dissidents, protesters, who say if you go to a hospital, the government will come to a hospital and remove people from the hospitals and disappear them or take them to a military hospital.

Did you see evidence of that?

NAVAI: We heard this time and time again, and we spoke to a doctor who said he'd seen with his own eyes indeed protesters dragged out of their hospital beds by security forces. And he said some of them were coming with superficial injuries, and weeks later their bodies, their dead bodies, would be returned to their families.

COOPER: That's the other thing about this regime which I find so stunning is their willingness to torture people and kill people and then return the bodies to the families almost as a warning.

NAVAI: But not only is the regime returning tortured bodies to families, it's really -- in a really disrespectful way. It's not adhering to the Muslim custom of returning the body immediately for burial. It's waiting one or two weeks.

COOPER: The -- you were also able to speak to some dissident soldiers who had apparently defected. And you were able to hear their perspective. I want to play some of that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We stood at the front, and the militia and security forces, Assad's gangs, were behind us. If we didn't shoot at the protesters, they would kill us. I saw with my own eyes, when my friend beside me refused to shoot at the protesters. He was shot in the head by a sniper.


COOPER: Basically saying that if they didn't shoot, that there were regime supporters behind them who would actually shoot the soldiers. Do you -- I mean, does evidence bear that out?

NAVAI: This is a story that we kept on hearing. And it's been quite well documented by the activists as well.

COOPER: Right.

NAVAI: We didn't doubt it for a minute.

COOPER: It really amazes me just the -- I mean I guess it shouldn't amaze me, but just the extent to which the regime lies. You know we had the Syrian ambassador to the U.N. on this program. And I mean the stuff that was coming out of his mouth was -- it would be funny if it wasn't so deadly serious. And it must have been interesting for you to hear what the regime is saying but to actually see with your own eyes?

NAVAI: Yes, it's outrageous. And in fact it's funny because when we flew into Damascus, we started to question whether this uprising was happening because life goes on as normal. And of course, the minute we left Damascus, it's everywhere. It's totally undeniable. And they are lying, lie upon lie.

And of course the day after Assad made this agreement with the Arab League to withdraw troops from all the cities, over 10 people were killed in Homs. In fact, I was talking to one of the activists today. And I dread my conversations with them because I know they're going to -- they're going to e-mail over images of their latest friends dead.

COOPER: And yet even though they're living in fear and even though they're at risk of their own lives and their friends are dying and they could very well end up being dead, they're going to continue, you think?

NAVAI: They will absolutely continue. And I think it's going to take a bloody turn now. One thing that they have said to me is that they're going to try to arm themselves. They think that's the only way of protecting themselves, of defending themselves.

COOPER: It's really fascinating stuff. Thank you so much.

NAVAI: Thank you.


COOPER: Still ahead tonight, Election Day 2011. How some of the state and local ballot issues Americans voted on today could have a far-reaching impact nationwide.

Also sickening accusations of child rape on the Penn State campus. Did the school's powerful legendary football program try to cover up the crimes to protect a retired assistant coach?


COOPER: Many Americans went to the polls today to vote in state and local elections. Some of the races are being closely watched around the country for any impact they may have beyond their own states. The same goes for some controversial ballot initiatives that were up for vote. Tom Foreman joins me now with raw politics. Tom, let's start with one of the high profile races in Kentucky I know you're watching.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. The Democratic governor there, Steve Beshear we're now predicting has pretty easily gone on to re-election at this point. That's an encouraging sign obviously, Anderson, for Democrats all over the country when they see a win like that.

On the other hand, we're watching very closely tonight Virginia where the Republicans, if they can take two seats in the state senate, will then hold the Senate, the House, the governorship, the lieutenant governorship and the attorney general's office.

All which could make that a very unpleasant battleground state for President Obama as he goes into re-election if they hold all those top offices in Republican hands. So we're watching these races around the country. This is one where we have the results at this point -- Anderson.

COOPER: You're also watching two ballot initiatives in particular. Which one is it?

FOREMAN: Yes, a couple that are really important here. Let's look at Ohio here. This is the ballot issue about collective bargaining. Earlier this year, the governor signed into law a law that says that they're going to really restrict collective bargaining in this country -- in Ohio for the government worker, about 350,000 of them.

There's been a gigantic, gigantic battle going on as to whether or not they're going to keep his ban or defeat his ban. It's still really early on though, very early numbers. We'll have to see what happens as that shapes up over the evening.

The other one, though, and that again is also seen as a test battle for whether union forces will be strong in the presidential race. The last one is in Mississippi where there's a vote on the definition of a person. Basically this initiative number 26 says from the moment that an egg is fertilized, it becomes a person, with all the rights attendant to a person.

This would basically outlaw all sorts of forms of abortion. Anderson, it has created debate even within conservative Christian communities, some of which say, this is necessary, a way to end Roe/Wade and others say, this just goes too far. We'll be watching that as the numbers are coming in.

COOPER: All right, Tom, appreciate it. Thanks. Isha is back with some of the other stories we're following in the "360 Bulletin" -- Isha.

ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Italy's Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi is resigning driven out by his country's debt crisis. He said he will step down after the next budget is approved by parliament.

As report from the U.N. nuclear watchdog, the IAEA says it has obtained credible information that Iran may be developing nuclear weapons. The report calls Iran's nuclear program more ambitious and structured than previously known.

The BBC is reporting that the "News of the World" tabloid paid a private eye to spy on Prince William and a host of other high profile people. The defunct tabloid is at the center of the phone hacking scandal that's rocked Rupert Murdoch's, News Corp.

This week, Murdoch's son, James, is expected to testify a second time before British lawmakers.

And Anderson, take a look. This spinning blur blob is an asteroid, the size of an aircraft carrier. At 6:28 Eastern tonight it came within 202,000 miles of earth. It is incredibly rare for an asteroid that large to come so close to our planet.

COOPER: That's neat.

SESAY: I bet you the team of "Armageddon" were all set.

COOPER: Yes, I'm sure they were ready somewhere.

Coming up, "Crime and Punishment," an incredibly disturbing scandal unfolding at one of the nation's top football programs. The question is, will it force Penn State's legendary coach, Joe Paterno to step down? At issue is how he handled allegations of sexual abuse against a former assistant coach.

Also ahead, it was a man-made disaster we witnessed in Haiti. Thousands of cholera victims sickened in an outbreak traced to U.N. workers. Thousands of Haitians are now demanding from the U.N. That's ahead.


COOPER: "Crime and Punishment" tonight, new developments in the child sex abuse scandal that's rocked Penn State's football program. Former assistant coach, Jerry Sandusky will not appear in court tomorrow as planned. His preliminary hearing has been postponed until December 7th.

The charges against him could not be uglier. He allegedly fondled and raped young boys he met for charity that he founded for underprivileged youth.

Today, a regular weekly news conference with Penn State's head coach, Joe Paterno, was canceled. It would have been his first since the scandal broke. Reporters were waiting when he left practice.


JOE PATERNO, PENN STATE HEAD FOOTBALL COACH: You guys have a lot of good questions that I'd like to answer, but I can't do it now. I'm sorry the press conference didn't turn out, but we'll try to have another one, too.


COOPER: You heard him. There's no make good day for the news conference. Calls for Paterno's resignation are growing, but many are standing by him as well.

Tonight, he arrived home to a huge show of support outside his house. He wouldn't take any questions though or make any statements.

So far, two top university officials, Timothy Curley and Gary Schultz have been charged with failing to report allegations of abuse that occurred on university property.

Possibly the most shocking fact to come out is how far back the suspected abuse goes. Jason Carroll reports.


JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The allegations of sexual abuse by former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky go back to the mid-1990s. Several alleged assaults occurred on the Penn State campus, the most shocking in March of 2002.

LINDA KELLY, PENNSYLVANIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Sandusky was seen committing a sexual assault on a young boy of about 10 years of age. It was reported to university officials by a graduate assistant who happened to be in the building late one Friday evening.

CARROLL: That graduate assistant reported the incident to long time head football coach, Joe Paterno. In this statement, Paterno said in part it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky. He goes on to say, because Sandusky was already retired at that point, I referred the matter to university administrators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe all the pieces are in place --

CARROLL: That administrator was Timothy Curley, Penn State's Athletic Director. He and Gary Schultz, Senior Vice President for Finance and Business took away Sandusky's locker room keys and banned him from having children in the football building according to authorities, but never reported the incident to law enforcement.

KELLY: Near inaction likely allowed a child predator to continue to victimize children for many, many years.

CARROLL: Curley did, however, report it to Second Mile, the children's charity, which Sandusky founded and where he allegedly met most of his underage victims.

The charity said in a statement, Mr. Curley also shared that the information had been internally reviewed and that there was no finding of wrongdoing. They, too, didn't report the incident to law enforcement or ban Sandusky from contact with children at that time.

According to the grand jury report, Sandusky began abusing another victim he met through Second Mile in 2005 or 2006. But it wasn't until November of 2008, according to the charity, when Sandusky told them he was being investigated that they immediately made the decision to separate him from all of our program activities involving children.

That 2008 investigation finally led to explosive charges this weekend. Sandusky is accused of sexually assaulting eight boys. He maintains he's innocent.

JOSEPH AMENDOLA, JERRY SANDUSKY'S ATTORNEY: Regardless of whether he eventually proves his guilt or innocence, people are going to think that he did this stuff.

CARROLL: And Curley and Schultz are charged with failing to report abuse and lying to the grand jury. Their attorneys say the charges are bogus.

CAROLINE ROBERTO, ATTORNEY FOR TIMOTHY CURLEY: It is unconscionable that the attorney general's office would level such a weak case against a man of integrity like Mr. Curley.

THOMAS J. FARRELL, ATTORNEY FOR GARY SCHULTZ: This is disappointing because rather than follow the law, the attorney general's fabricated a fiction.

CARROLL: As far as the 84-year-old coach Joe Paterno, the attorney general says he will not be charge, but there are calls for his resignation. Today a press conference for Paterno was hastily canceled, but he did say this to CNN.

PATERNO: You have a lot of good questions that I'd like to answer, but I can't do it now.


COOPER: Jason Carroll joins me now along with Sara Ganim, a reporter at the "Patriot News" and Wendy Murphy, a former sex crimes prosecutor.

So, Jason, there have been reports Joe Paterno, some are calling for his resignation. Has he said anything about whether he intends to do that? And why are some saying he should resign?

CARROLL: Well, first, let me answer the question in terms of why. They're saying that he should resign simply because maybe he did what he should have done legally, but morally the feeling among some is he should have done more by going to the police.

In terms of whether or not he will resign, Anderson, tonight, at his house, his son, Scott, came out and said despite these reports of his father's resignation, he says, there are no plans for his father to resign. When asked if he would be out there coaching at this weekend's game, he said his father would be out there to coach and coaching for the rest of the season as well -- Anderson.

COOPER: What about the university president? There are some reports that he may step down.

CARROLL: Yes. For Graham Spannier, there have been a lot of calls for his resignation as well because the feeling is the buck really stops with him.

I can tell you that tomorrow night, there was supposed to be some sort of a benefit dinner where the president was supposed to be there with his wife to help raise money for Penn State that was canceled all of a sudden.

So that may be some indication that there is something there, but we have yet to hear some sort of official word from that from the president.

COOPER: So you spoke to two of the moms of the victims allegedly sexually molested by Sandusky. What did they tell you?

SARA GANIM, REPORTER, "THE PATRIOT-NEWS": I mean, both of them are feeling extremely let down and betrayed by Penn State. Those feelings come from the charges that are levied against Tim Curley and Gary Shultz, then the moral allegations basically that were made against Joe Paterno and Graham Spannier.

They say they should have done more, but one mom in particular, her son came forward in 1998, was not believed and both of them, herself and her son, just feel awful that there were victims that have come forward since that they believe had to be victimized because her son wasn't believed.

She told me that her son when he read that 23-page presentment, he cried, because she said his incident was basically a one-time incident. And what happened to the victim, the most recent victim was over a long period of time, continued abuse, and they just feel awful about it.

COOPER: Wendy, you say that Paterno likely fulfilled his legal obligation here because many institutions actually forbid employees from reporting child abuse directly to authorities, is that true?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER SEX CRIMES PROSECUTOR: Well, whether it's written policies or not, as a matter of practice, institutions that understand they have mandatory reporting responsibilities usually have policies in place so that there's a designated person whose job it is to make that report.

In other words, there's a chain of command. Whatever you may know about a child abuse incident, you're not supposed to make that call. You're supposed to tell the designated person and they're expected to call either law enforcement and/or child protective services. That's one of the reasons I don't understand why the piling on around Joe is going on. I realize he failed morally, but the president, Graham Spannier, he is responsible. Compare this to the Catholic Church abuse crisis in Boston, for example.

We didn't ask for the monsignors who participated in the cover-up to be fired or indicted. We asked for cardinal law to be indicted because he was the boss of the church.

The institution's head is responsible. He's the criminal here. And I don't understand why he isn't being charged with some kind of failure to report. He should be charged.

COOPER: Wendy Murphy, appreciate it. Jason Carroll, Sarah Ganim as well. Thank you so much.

Still ahead tonight, Attorney General Eric Holder's strong words about "Operation Fast and Furious." We've been reporting on that for weeks. The controversial program that allowed illegal guns to be smuggled to Mexico. His testimony in a 360 follow.

And our Gloria Borger just got off the phone with one of Herman Cain's accusers. That's going to be breaking news. We're going to talk to her in just a moment. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Breaking news tonight, Gloria Borger just got off the phone with Herman Cain's initial accuser, Karen Kraushaar. Gloria joins us now. Gloria, what did she say?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, she wouldn't comment on the Cain press conference today, but she does want to get the women together to talk about their charges.

She said that Cain is, quote, "a serial denier." She believes that he will deny if it's 40 or 40 women. And I don't know how the American people will get past that.

She made the case she's a civil servant, she's not political. She was sick of this story 12 years ago, to her it's old news. But she said, at the same time, it's become part of the public debate.

So she believes it is no longer a private matter. It is a personally embarrassing matter. She thought that Sharon Bialek showed great courage. And again, she talked about the possibility of releasing documents.

She has kept, Anderson, all the copies of her own allegations and the settlement. And she does not have to go to the restaurant association to ask them to waive confidentiality any more since they have already done that.

She could potentially release these documents on her own or she could do it as a part of a group with the other women. COOPER: Did she make any comments or did you ask her about Cain's saying that his only memory of her was commenting on her height of being in comparison to his wife's height?

BORGER: Yes, I did ask her about that and she kind of laughed. She said a comment like that is so innocuous. It wasn't part of any complaint. She said it sounds vaguely familiar.

But she said, there was an incident in his office that was a part of her complaint, but the comparison of the heights was certainly not any part of the complaint at all.

COOPER: And is she indicating that it was, in fact, a legal settlement, which is Cain saying it's his understanding it wasn't. It was just a sort of termination agreement.

BORGER: It was a legal settlement. In fact, I tried to confirm with her whether it was actually $45,000. She said, actually, Anderson, it was $46,000 and it was a settlement due to the charges of sexual harassment. It was not a severance agreement in any way, shape or form.

COOPER: The $46,000 as a severance agreement sounds like a lot of money.

BORGER: Well, as a settlement agreement.

COOPER: No as a severance. As a settlement, that's more understandable.

BORGER: Right. It was not severance. She said it was a settlement agreement, and she has waived her confidentiality on it. So I believe that we could see her release at some point her own copies of the allegations.

COOPER: Interesting. Gloria, again, on the front end of the story. Gloria, thanks very much. We're following a lot of other stories. Now Isha is back with a "360 News and Business Bulletin" -- Isha.

SESAY: Anderson, a 360 follow, Attorney General Eric Holder says "Operation Fast and Furious" never should have happened and must never happen again. Holder testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee today about the controversial ATF practice that allowed illegal guns to be smuggled into Mexico.

More than 5,000 cholera victims in Haiti filed a petition with the U.N. asking for millions in compensation for their pain and suffering. The epidemic has killed thousands and sickened hundreds of thousands. The strain of cholera was linked to peacekeepers from Nepal after fecal matter from a U.N. camp was improperly dumped into a river in 2010.

Two investors who lost money to Bernie Madoff are suing J.P. Morgan Chase for $19 billion. They filed suit in federal district court in New York accusing the bank of knowing about Madoff's Ponzi scheme. A similar suit was tossed out by U.S. district court judge. J.P. Morgan chase says it expects this one will be too.

The rich gets richer. Millionaire Candy Spelling, widow of TV producer, Aaron Spelling, has won $90,000 at the high stakes slot in Vegas according to TMZ. There you have it -- Anderson.

COOPER: There you go. A lot of people just moaning and groaning right now that you said that or shaking their heads.

Coming up, she's back, national treasure Courtney Stodden faces plastic surgery allegations head on. That lands Dr. Drew on the "Ridiculist." We'll explain ahead.


COOPER: Time now for "The Ridiculist." Tonight, I got to do it. I got to do it. We got to add our good friend, Dr. Drew. On his daytime show, "Life Changers," Dr. Drew tackled an issue that's been gnawing at the entire nation. That's right.

I'm talking about whether or not Courtney Stodden's boobs are real. You remember Courtney, don't you? She's the aspiring singer/aspiring reality show star who at 16 years old and with the blessing of her parents married 51-year-old character actor and aspiring reality show star, Doug Hutchinson.

Since then Courtney has beguiled us with her music, with her costumes and wisdom that oozes forth from her Twitter page. But there has been one question that has positively plagued poor Courtney ever since her meteoric rise to sort of fame namely, has she had plastic surgery or not?

And so Dr. Drew decided to get to the bottom of it or the top as the case may be. Because he actually had two doctors use ultrasound on Courtney to find out if she's had implants. Yes.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I see a circular object.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I can freeze it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like it's under the muscle, too.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So there's our implant.

COURTNEY STODDEN: Somebody must have drugged me up and put me under their surgery knife, because I've had no surgery done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Courtney, do you have implants?

STODDEN: No, I don't. No.


COOPER: You're probably thinking see, I knew those things were fake or perhaps you're thinking Courtney who now? But what I'm thinking is why did Courtney even agree to this?

She's answered this plastic surgery question time and time again. Isn't it enough? Need I remind you of this from her Youtube page.


STODDEN: My breasts are real, everything about me is real. My hair is real. My teeth are real. My eyelashes are real. My breasts are totally real.


COOPER: You heard her, America, it's all real. And you know what, doctors can be wrong sometimes. Let's go back to the next installment of Dr. Drew's implant hunters.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It could be like a bone or whatever we were looking at so --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's all normal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's all normal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I guess she was telling us the truth. She doesn't look like she has an implant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do not have an implant.


COOPER: There you go. Officially real. Just like that, our long national nightmare is over. Not since Kim Kardashian got her butt x-rayed has democracy worked quite so well.

I think we can all be proud to be Americans tonight. So Dr. Drew for doubting Courtney for even a moment, we have no choice -- hang on there. I can't let this go. I cannot talk about Courtney without my favorite Courtney Stodden clip.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are welcome to their opinions. That's what the world is about. If they need to feel this way, that's theirs to hold, not ours.


COOPER: I almost can't listen to what he's saying because of Courtney's contortions. Dr. Drew, if I may call you, Drew, if you have Courtney on again, can you please, please in the name of all that is holy, do some kind of test on her face to find out what that is all about? In any case, Dr. Drew, thank you for the memories and for fighting the good fight on "The Ridiculist."

That's it for us. We're going to see you again at 10 p.m. tonight. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN" starts now.