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Penn State Child Sex Abuse Scandal

Aired November 14, 2011 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

Jerry Sandusky is out on bail, but still pulling in $60,000 a year from Penn State and living within feet of a school playground. Is he still a danger? If you or your (ph) child, how would you feel?

I`m talking to a man who`s helping the alleged victim get treatment and therapy.

And a woman whose daughter was murdered by a sexual predator speaks out right here. Why pedophiles abuse? Why victims stay silent? Why communities must do more?

Let`s get started.

Good evening and thanks for joining us. We, of course, are starting off with the Penn State scandal. This past weekend, the Penn State football team played a big game against Nebraska. Listen to this.


MIKE GALANOS, HLN ANCHOR (on camera): The fallout from a child sex abuse scandal that has rocked Penn State University.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Jerry Sandusky is a married man, who has adopted six children. We`ve also learned that his home`s property apparently backs up to an elementary school playground.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Right over here is Jerry Sandusky`s house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New report is claiming that the judge in this case actually volunteered for Sandusky`s charity group.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you missed Penn State`s game with Nebraska over the weekend, it was a very different experience without their legendary coach, Joe Paterno, there.

JAY PATERNO, JOE PATERNO`S SON: We have had better weeks in our lives obviously. Dad, I wish you were here. We love you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then Penn State players joined Nebraska`s players at midfield just before kickoff for a prayer for child abuse victims.


PINSKY: This was the first game in four decades without legendary Coach Joe Paterno on the sidelines. Well, he just - it`s hard to imagine a Penn State game without him and his big glasses sitting there and its - I`m a college football fan, so this is a loss for all of us.

Speaking of losing, the team lost but the students and the fans showed their support to the victims by wearing all blue. Emotions are still running high in Happy Valley and the healing process has to start yet for everyone.

Let`s go to HLN`s Mike Galanos in State College. Now, Mike, you`ve been on campus following this really emotional story for the past week. What was the mood like at the game on Saturday? I watched a little bit of it. It felt kind of a little schizophrenic. I mean, I feel schizophrenic saying, gee, I missed having JoePa on the sideline. I`m a college football fan. And yet I, too, I hold him accountable for what happened there.

GALANOS: That`s well put. I think there`s a lot of conflicted emotions from everybody in and around the situation.

You know, I watched this. And let me just start by saying, walking around the campus and into the stadium as the game was tipping off, you know, I saw dads and sons. You know, young guys about the age of Sandusky`s alleged victims, and all I could think of was that was the - those were the victims however many years ago. These wide-eyed, innocent kids who want to just see their Nittany Lions play football.

But on a positive, it was a different experience and I thought football was secondary. When two teams come together and pray, I`ve never seen that before. And there was that moment of silence, $20,000 raised from Beaver Stadium to help prevent child abuse in the State of Pennsylvania - excuse me - great. That was wonderful. A new message sent from State College.

But then some of the things I know that get our blood boiling again. The Jerry Sandusky`s home backs up to a playground and a school. The judge who set bail that was a volunteer for the Second Mile Foundation that he founded for troubled youth, and that his - and that the bail was only $100,000. He`s unsecured when prosecutors wanted $500,000 and a leg monitoring device, then the blood starts boiling.

So it`s back to the original point, Drew. A lot of conflicted emotions as we continue to follow this.

PINSKY: Yes, Mike. It is really topsy-turvy. Can you tell us anything about the civil suit being filed by the victims?

GALANOS: Well, there`s an attorney, Ben Andreozzi, who is reportedly linked up with at least one victim. And basically saying he`s exploring the idea of a civil suit against Sandusky or anybody who knew anything that could have protected these kids and did not do anything. So that`s, again, not beyond the pail. We knew that was coming and now we`re getting that official word from an attorney right here in State College.

PINSKY: Thanks, Mike.

I want to switch gears now from what`s happening at Penn State tonight to the victims themselves. Will they see justice and how did the firing of Joe Paterno and the publicity of the abuse affect these victims?

Joining me now is - a primetime exclusive interview - Peter Pellulo. His organization is working with a number of Sandusky`s alleged victims. He`s also the author of the book "Betrayal and The Beast: The True Story of One Man`s Journey through Childhood Sexual Abuse, Sexual Addiction and Recovery."

Peter, your organization is called "Let Go, Let Peace Come In." And the attorney for some alleged victims apparently has partnered with you to help them get through this process. Now, we want to be sure to protect confidentiality of these young men specifically, so, you know, we`re not going to talk about any individual case, but I hope - I hope you and I talk - will give people at home an opportunity to understand the full impact of what sexual abuse does to kids, number one.

And then my first question to you, number two, is how are these kids holding up and what kinds of treatments are they getting?


I am working with Ben and they have - Ben had reached out to our foundation to see if we could be of support to the client that he`s representing. And I think he`s going to represent a couple more. What we`re really focused on is the recovery of these young men.

I had started the foundation based on my own journey of being in recovery and realized within a year and a half that there are many men and women. The numbers are countless. And yet they don`t have the resources that I had and I was able to see five different psychologists to help me through the process of rewiring my brain.

And I think basically, that`s what the young men are going through to a certain degree. I don`t even think they know the full impact yet of the damage that was done. And that`s clearly understood to some degree by them stating they felt sorry that them coming forward could have caused the breakdown of this football program, or even the loss of the job to Joe Paterno.

PINSKY: Yes. They identify with the victimizer. That`s a very common - I`m sure you relate to that, Peter.

Now, Peter, I want to - I want to really focus in on something you said here, to try to get the public to understand this. You said that you need to rewire your brain, which I - I use that analogy all the time when I`m talking to victims of physical abuse and sexual abuse. And I want to say this, yell it, and to give you a chance to articulate it as you see fit.

But the way we understand the explanation is, it shatters the young brain`s ability to regulate. It walls off parts of the self, disavow parts of the self and it makes that individual unable to regulate and stuck in a pattern of behavior that becomes destructive. How would you describe that?

PELLULO: I think that`s just about right on point, Dr. Drew. Basically, when I entered recovery at the age of 55, I was informed that I had the emotional stability of a seven-year-old and, of course, that was very difficult to understand.

I`m a corporate executive. I`ve been self-employed for 34 - 35 years. I`ve done many complex transactions across the ocean and back here on this side. And what was really alarming was I found that to be true once I was in the process four or five months. I think what exactly happens is when a child is sexually violated and touched in that way, the brain immediately stops growing on the emotional side.

And until these young men have the opportunity, like I did, to actually connect the damage and to understand more than likely, I`m not sure, but more than likely they probably have already developed ticks and certain addictions that they are using to survive life itself. Because if you look at them, I think the youngest now will be 18 shortly and the oldest is 27 or 28, you`re going to see a full-grown man. But in reality, you`re going to see a man that is so wounded emotionally that unless he gets the support and the help to connect those wires that were basically severed, and those stems, as I have learned on my own journey, are completely severed from the sexual violation.

I read the Grand Jury report and unfortunately for those young men and myself, I`ve experienced exactly the same things that they are reporting there in that report. But there is hope. But there is only hope with the fact that they get the kind of trauma therapy that they need. There`s even, I think, a specific type of therapy that`s needed, more so than just a therapist that`s going to diagnose there, absolutely (ph).

PINSKY: And, Peter, I want to - I want to, again, emphasize what you`re saying is that we live in a time now with a lot of the mental health needs of many young people and adults for that matter are the results of trauma. So there are armies of professionals geared up to deal with the trauma and to do the trauma therapy. But it takes time and it takes resources, as you say.

And I certainly hope these kids are going to have access to that. Because I always say, sexual abuse is the gift that keeps on giving. I don`t mean it literally. People get upset when I say that. It`s a - it`s a horrible violation, but once done, it continues to affect that person the rest of their life. Unless, Peter, as you say there`s treatment.

I want to just commend you for stepping in on behalf of these kids. And I hope that they will grab on to this. It`s the other part is giving them to, you know, to come along for the ride. It`s very tough sometimes. It`s so (INAUDIBLE).

PELLULO: Well, it`s tough for them to start to surrender to it.


PELLULO: What enables me to be here with you this evening is that I have surrendered to the fact that I was seven years old and just like they were children, there was nothing I could have done.


PELLULO: So surrendering to the violation is one issue, Dr. Drew. Surrendering to the ticks and the addictions caused by it is an entirely different one.

PINSKY: I hope I`ll have a chance to speak with you again to get more updates on the kids. I`m delighted there in your hands. Peter, thank you so much.

Coming up next, now, is Sandusky getting special treatment? Could more children be in danger because perhaps he`s out without monitoring? We`re going to talk to one mother who tragically knows firsthand just how dangerous it can be to have an accused child predator on the loose. Don`t go away.



SNOW (voice-over): When he was charged with 40 counts of sexually- abusing children, Jerry Sandusky was released on $100,000 bail. One condition, the former Penn State defensive coordinator was told not to go near children.

(on camera): But take a look where his house is located. This is the playground for LaMont Elementary School. Right over here is Jerry Sandusky`s house. And from his back porch, he has a clear view of it.


PINSKY: Tonight, Jerry Sandusky arrested and charged with 40 counts of child sexual assault. Now, if these accusations are true or even partially true, he`s an extremely dangerous sexual predator.

Tonight, we`re learning Sandusky is not only out with no bail and no ankle monitor, but his house out at the back right up to an elementary school. It`s lovely.

Is Jerry Sandusky alleged pedophile getting special treatment because he`s Jerry Sandusky? Because he`s a big name in the football program in town? Or could the courts possibly be failing more children by letting this guy walk free without a monitor?

Listen, as we have been talking about tonight, people that have been - are sexually abused, there are changes in wiring and pedophiles` brains are wired differently as well. It becomes a compulsion that without treatment can really not be controlled on the individual`s own. They don`t control it. It acts out.

Now, if these accusations are true, this could be something that is outside of his control. It`s a huge risk.

Tonight, I`m joined by a mother whose daughter was killed by a sex offender. Diena Thompson, your daughter Somer was murdered by a sex offender, who went free (ph) after being caught with child pornography and having molested a different girl. Do you think someone accused of these crimes should be free on bail and living next to a school?



THOMPSON: But I want to say - I want to I`m so proud of the victims for, you know, having the strength and courage to come forward and tell about what`s happened to them so that they might save another child`s life in the future.

PINSKY: Well, let`s - let`s point out how difficult that is, because the victims themselves invariably feel responsible for what happens to them. And even if they don`t feel as though they somehow were part of the process, they feel deeply ashamed and very guilty and are fearful or terrorized about stepping forward. So it`s not, you know, it`s more than what people think it is. Wouldn`t you say, Diena?

THOMPSON: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I understand totally what you`re talking about. I` mean it breaks my heart that they feel, you know, that they`re scared, that they`re afraid that there`s going to be some repercussions on them. But like I say, I`m just so proud of these kids, for these grown boys now, you know, coming aboard and having the strength.


THOMPSON: Right, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: And let`s point out some of what Peter Pellulo just told us in the last segment is they feel guilty now for what`s happening to the football program, that they love, too. Imagine how could - these poor kids. It`s suffering on suffering.


PINSKY: Now, the judge who let Jerry Sandusky return home without paying any bail, without any ankle monitor after being arrested on 40 counts of child sexual assault charges, by the way, she was a volunteer at Sandusky`s charity, the Second Mile.

District Judge Leslie Dutchcot ordered Sandusky freed on $100,000 unsecured bail only to be paid if he failed to show up for court. Now, the prosecutors wanted $500,000 bail and an ankle monitor on Sandusky.

Legal experts say this outcome is shocking, especially considering there`s allegedly more than one victim.

Now, Peter, I`ve asked Peter Pellulo to stay with me. I was so pleased with what you had to say during the last segment. Let me ask this. Are the victims - are they - are they upset that he`s out and about? Or are they so conflicted that they are identifying with him and sort of wished that he`s - he`s hoped that he`s out and about?

PELLULO: Well, I think to a certain degree, not all of them feel the same emotions, Dr. Drew, but I think to a certain degree, there`s probably a few that feel that he sort of saved them because of their economic situation -


PELLULO: -- or their home situation. But I do believe within the next three or four years, once they get the therapy and the recovery that they so desperately need, that they will come to terms and understand that he did anything but save them and caused significant amount of damage to them.

I mean, these young men have to understand - I think they have to understand that they`re not alone. That there are other people out here.

PINSKY: Yes. Oh, yes. That this is so, so common in our world today, Peter. And, again, I think we need to reiterate these concepts that you`re putting out there, because the average person has not been exposed to this material. This is not something obvious.

It`s that the victims identify with the victimizers. That`s one of the reasons they don`t speak up. They don`t want to hurt them. They feel guilty. They feel responsible. It is what creates some of the pathology that then develops later on.

NOW, Sandusky`s attorney is speaking out and he says Jerry Sandusky claims he never touched a boy. Listen to this.


JOE AMENDOLA, JERRY SANDUSKY`S ATTORNEY: Jerry is very, very depressed. He`s very upset. He`s very distraught about the charges, the allegations, the knowledge that regardless of whether he`s eventually proves his guilt or innocence, that people are going to think that he did this stuff. Jerry from the outset of this investigation, which goes back over three years, has always maintained his innocence.

And early on in his case when it was just at the children (INAUDIBLE) level, he was prepared to go to a hearing to defend himself on the allegation from the one young guy who said that he had had an appropriate contact with him.


PINSKY: Wow. I mean, so the victimizer is in denial.

Diena, do you have a reaction to that? I mean, it`s not uncommon for people to do this kind of thing, to disavow the parts of themselves that are acting out.

THOMPSON: Exactly. Why wouldn`t I say I didn`t do something even if I truly did it. It makes me crazy to think that they let him out on, you know, with - they`ll get the money from him if he doesn`t show up. Well, how are you going to get it from him if he doesn`t show up?

And, I mean, how - do you need 50 victims? Do you need 60? I`m confused about why, when there`s 40 alleged accusations, we need to start taking this more seriously.

PINSKY: Yes. Diena, I think you`re absolutely right.

Now, Peter, I want to ask you a question now. If you`re in and around the world of treatment of these kinds of individuals, I`m certain you`ve seen victimizers get treatment as well.

How do you respond to people that say that people like Sandusky cannot be rehabilitated? Do you believe that?

PELLULO: Well, I think there`s a lot more study that`s needed, Dr. Drew. You know, the fact that he could say that he didn`t do these things, one only has to read the Grand Jury report and what child or what human being would make up those type of violations? So, obviously, he`s in complete denial.

You know, what`s in his background? No one knows. Was he molested? I mean, this is some of the work that the foundation -

PINSKY: Probably.

PELULLO: -- that some of the- this is - this is some of the work the foundation is doing with Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Health. We are partnering together to find out a lot of these answers, with the hope to be -

PINSKY: Peter, I have to - I have to interrupt you, I`ve got to go to break.

Thank you, guys. Thank you to the panel. Appreciate it.


PINSKY: Former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky is accused of sexually abusing of at least eight boys over a 15-year period. Now, he lives very close to an elementary school, so close that he can apparently view the school`s playground from his back porch. This has many parents worried and some of you outraged.

So, let`s get to the phones. Debbie in South Carolina, go ahead.


PINSKY: Hi, Debbie.

DEBBIE: I just wanted to comment on that child molester.


DEBBIE: I think all of these child molesters are treated with kid gloves, that`s why the thing is being repeated over and over. Any man that touches a child, his male parts should be removed. Or, then again, maybe they don`t deserve to live at all.

PINSKY: Well, Debbie, I`m not sure it`s a capital offense, and not everyone agrees with the capital punishment generally. And, in fact, removing the genitals - removing the male organs does not actually do anything to sexual abuse - to sexual offenders. That`s actually been something studied and contemplated over many, many years.

But there`s an important point to be made here, and that is that it is - it is time that we really talk about this problem. For years that I`ve been dealing with it, probably for 20 years that I`ve been dealing with it, it`s a primary issue in my own practice. When I would bring it up on radio and television, people would say, oh, we`re just talking about it more now. It`s just - it`s always been here. It has not always been here, and it`s not as prevalent in other countries.

It`s something that grows like a cancer. Someone who`s a victimizer doesn`t do it to one, he does it to many, sometimes hundreds. And, of those, maybe as many as 50 percent become victimizers.

You see how it grows, unless we attack it aggressively, which is, I hope - I hope, if anything comes out of this, it will be that.

Regina on Facebook writes, "I`m so incredibly disgusted and saddened to know that Sandusky was given and continues to have free rein to prey on children. Shame on every person who turned a blind eye to this sadistic predator. That includes school administrators, coaches, attorneys and all of them."

And look, Regina, I actually agree with you. I think we need to look at the administration of college campuses and why they feel insulated from the rest of the law of the land that the rest of us serve, why they didn`t know they had an obligation legally to report it to the authorities and to child protection services and, when they did, to see it all the way through. There is something endemically wrong about these bubbles we call our collegian institutions.

Back to the phones. Ceil in Ohio, go ahead.

CEIL, NORTH ROYALTON, OHIO: Hi, Dr. Drew. I just want to say that I`m disturbed by the judge who granted bail to Sandusky, how she failed to disclose that she had a connection with the charity started by the defendant appearing in her court, which should have resulted in her refusing herself from the case.

I think this is just another example of a person in power choosing their personal interest over their sworn duty, and I`m just totally disgusted.

PINSKY: Enough said. I think that we`re going to hear more about that, I hope.

Kathy writes, "Victims of sexual abuse often want help, but why is it so hard for them to talk about it?" And that`s something I hope you heard us talking about in the first part of the show, is that the abuse, the victims feel responsible for it.

Remember Mackenzie Phillips was saying that she believed that she was having a romantic relationship with her sexually abusing dad? They believe that it - they have something to do with it. It`s a normal thinking for a child, not for an adult.

They believe they`re responsible, they feel ashamed of what they`re doing, and they identify with the abuser. They`re fearful that by coming out, it`s going to hurt the abuser, which of course it does. They`re conflicted about that.

In this case, a football organization they love is affected. Very difficult for them.

Next, we talk with Penn State students and alumni to get their reaction to tonight`s unfolding events. It is something you want to - don`t want to miss.

I want to talk to kids right there on the ground. You see some of them in that video. We`re going to hear how it feels from their perspective and how conflicted this is for many of them. Stay with us.



PINSKY (voice-over): Penn State child sex abuse scandal. Lives torn apart, students demoralized, and a community in crisis. I`m talking to Penn Staters past and present about how they`re coping with this nightmare.

Plus, I`m bringing (INAUDIBLE) coach, asking how and why was the alleged abuse allowed to continue? Was there a culture of cover-up in Happy Valley? What`s being done to repair the damage, and how do they move forward?

JOE PATERNO, FORMER PENN STATE FOOTBALL COACH: We`re always going to be Penn State regardless of what happens to certain people. We are Penn State. I`m proud of you. I`m proud of you.


PINSKY (on-camera): Joe Paterno there talking to supporters before he was fired last week. Paterno went on to say he was praying for the victims of the child abuse sex scandal. Take a look at this.


PATERNO: We`re going to start praying for those kids that were involved with some of the problems that we talked about. They don`t deserve it. We owe it to them to say a prayer for them and to make sure they understand that their life can be enriched. They can make a significant impact on other people.


PINSKY: Now, I know I cannot be the only one that has conflicted feelings when I watch that video. I mean, you know, those of us that grown up watching Paterno on the sidelines and now holding him accountable for something that`s awful. It`s OK that we feel conflicted about this. And when I talk to some students, I can imagine how conflicted they feel.

Now, it seems that Paterno`s message, in fact, resonated with the student body as things took a turn over the weekend. From campus rioting on Wednesday objecting to his being firing to a candlelight vigil for the victims on Friday nigh, and football fans wearing blue at support of the victims at the game on Saturday.

Tonight, we`re talking tonight with those lives that have been affected directly by this event, the students, themselves. Also, here now with us is Penn State student, Catherine Janisko, Penn State student, John Teece, Penn State alum, Steven Gershman, and former NFL and Penn State football player, Brett Conway.

Brett, you were at the game on Saturday. Can you tell what it was like and am I right to say that people have conflicted feelings?

BRETT CONWAY, PLAYED FOR PATERNO AND SANDUSKY: Yes. Dr. Drew, it was the most emotional football game I`ve ever been involved with. Player, fan, spectator. It was unprecedented. I`ve never been involved with anything like it.

PINSKY: And Brett, as this thing is unfolding, I know you have some very strong feelings in support of Joe Paterno, but as the facts are coming out, at least as we understand them, are you changing your feeling about this or do you still feel very much standing behind Coach Paterno?

CONWAY: You know, I`m standing on all the facts coming out. I was close with Mike McQueary. I was close with Joe Paterno. I was close with Tim Curley. I was close to many, many (inaudible) out there who have a lot of mixed feelings about this. We`re not sure which way this is going to go because we don`t have all the facts yet.

PINSKY: Brett, let me ask you something. You mentioned McQueary. To me, he is the most -- one of the most interesting people in This entire story. The fact that he`s the one that actually witnessed, allegedly, eyewitness, a horrible act by Sandusky, and he had to live with that image while he maintained his career in that organization. Did he ever mention any conflicted feelings or anything to you over the years?

CONWAY: You know, I think that there`s been a lot of different players that have known a lot of different stories and potential stories, and maybe, this was out there. And this happened in 2002, and there were many other instances, alleged instances, I should say, regarding Jerry.

And so, it`s 2011 now, and I`m not sure what`s transpired over the last nine years, but it seems that there`ve been a lot of different stories, unfortunate stories, about this goings on.

PINSKY: And McQueary never mentioned anything to you himself?

CONWAY: No. I don`t recall that now.

PINSKY: OK. Now, the Big Ten commissioner announced today that Joe Paterno`s name is going to be removed from the conference championship trophy. In a statement from Big Ten commissioner, Jim Delany, it reads, here we go, quote, "We believe it would be inappropriate to keep Joe Paterno`s name on the trophy at this time. The trophy and its name sake are intended to be celebratory, not controversial. We believe that it`s important to keep the focus on the players and the teams that will be competing in the inaugural championship game."

Brett, again, I`m back to you. I imagine this is an emotional -- you have an emotional reaction to this. I mean, I`m not attached to the school and I feel conflicted about that.

CONWAY: Yes. This was tough. You know, I read the story today, and I certainly understand why the Big Ten is doing this. I hope that if it does ever come out that Joe was completely absolved of any wrong doing, that they re-anoint Joe and put him back on the trophy.

I think that would be the right thing to do. Joe has been a part of so many fans, players` lives that there`s been so many good things that he`s responsible for. And if it does turn out that he`s been vindicated, then, I think they should put him back on.

PINSKY: You know, I want to go out to the students and hear with their reaction on to the same question. Catherine Janisko and John Teece, you know, I imagine there`s all sorts of conflicted feelings running around campus. Where are you guys at?

CATHERINE JANISKO, PENN STATE STUDENT: Well, right now, Dr. Drew, it`s kind of difficult to say. I mean, whether Joe`s name is going to be on the plaque or not, it`s just really up to them, I think, in my opinion. With the sad and unfortunate reality of this entire thing is is this has been done and the decision has been made. So, we really, as students and as the public here and state college, we just need to move on.


PINSKY: Go ahead.

JOHN TEECE, PENN STATE STUDENT: I was just going to say going off (ph) with Cath said it`s so difficult to see a man of what Joe Paterno has accomplished in his life, you know, be judged in the court of public opinion before we really know what he did know, what he didn`t know, when he knew it.

You know, I understand Mr. Delany`s decision for the Big Ten. You know, I obviously appreciate them wanting to put the focus on the players. That`s been our focus (ph) all week with this past week`s game, but at the same time, it`s just difficult to see, you know, the court of public opinion basically removing the Paterno name from this trophy that should be celebratory and should be celebratory of Coach Paterno`s accomplishments.

PINSKY: Let me ask you guys something about what the students are doing here. Are you guys holding your administration accountable for this? In other words, I`m getting this feeling that hospital -- I mean, excuse me, not hospital but collegiate, our university administrations somehow feel somewhat insulated from the law of the land a little bit.

Are students starting to ask questions of why the administration has not been more accountable of this over the years?

JANISKO: Absolutely. I think students are asking millions of questions about this. Why has this been going on for 15 years and why has this just surfaced? I think, in my opinion, had this had been resolved over three years ago, Dr. Drew, things would be at a calm now. But, now, it`s just all beginning. So, I can see this problem occurring for years to come after this.

PINSKY: And how about the alumni, Steven Gershman. You`re an alumni, and are alumni asking those same questions of the administration, why did it take 12 years to come to surface? Why the seeming cover-up of all this?

STEVEN GERSHMAN, PENN STATE ALUM: They are. I`ve spoken to several of my friends. Three of my first cousins also went to Penn State. And, we`ve been asking those same questions.

The problem is that a lot of the alumni just feel that Joe Paterno got a raw deal, that you don`t take 61 years of dedication to the university, and not just in football, but raising money for the library, and the influence he`s had on so many young men`s lives and just toss it aside, especially when he`s -- ultimately, the decision was up to the administrators.

PINSKY: Would it -- I`m not putting words to your mouth, but would it be safe to say the alumni are feeling that the administrators that were responsible to report this to the authorities who did not are now erasing a 61-year career?

GERSHMAN: Yes. I believe that many of the alumni feel that way.

PINSKY: That`s interesting.

GERSHMAN: And they`re angry about it. And, only time will tell.

PINSKY: I just wonder if we have a bigger problem here in this country with big university administrations generally feeling that they`re above the law, but we`ll handle our own situations here. And, we`ll report stuff when we have to. I don`t know. I think there`s a bigger story be told there, and we`re going to be looking into it during the week.

And next, we will continue our conversation with the Penn State students and alum.

And "Saturday Night Live" has its say about the scandal. Stay with us.



JESSICA GOLD, PENN STATE STUDENT: It`s so important to put the victims first. I think they`ve gotten really lost in all of this. you know, all the media attention has been focused on Sandusky and the university and our reactions, and it should be focused on helping these victims and stopping it from happening again.


PINSKY: Never shy of poking fun at controversy, even though some say too soon. "Saturday Night Live" took off on the Penn State child sex abuse scandal during weekend update. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t believe I`m saying this, but you know who I feel bad for, Joe Paterno. You know, to have evil like that in your midst and not even know about it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh. No. Not another oh. I hate the oh`s. What`s going on --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Well, it just turns out that the abuse was initially reported to Joe Paterno.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Who went straight to the police, yes?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No! Come on! Are you serious? Come on, Joe Pa. Joe Pa, a cover-up? This is college football, not the Catholic Church.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh-oh. I`m sorry that it happened or that I reminded you of it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So, if they didn`t go to the police, then how did they punish the coach?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, all they did was take away his locker room privileges?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, that seems fair.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Of course, not.


PINSKY: As usual, a direct bull`s eye. But Steve, it must hurt to hear SNL making fun like that, because, I guess, this is a chance for maybe the alumni to stand up and say, remember what a great academic institution this is. Guys, this is not just about a football scandal.

GERSHMAN: That`s true, Dr. Drew. And, Joe Paterno helped make it that way. Many people are not aware that he came from Brown University. He was an English literature major. And he placed a very high premium -- yes -- on academics and helped raise money for the new library. And gave - -

PINSKY: He had more scholar athletes than almost anybody, I guess. And he was very key (ph) in the fundraising for the academic party institution.

GERSHMAN: Yes. And he has, I believe, the third-highest graduation rate in division one.

PINSKY: Interesting. Now, emotions, of course, ran high at Penn State during the game on Saturday. Students voiced their support for the victims. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to support the victims and their families. We`re with them. We`re still here for them. You know, that`s important to us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s part of the reason we`re wearing blue, trying to raise awareness for this child abuse that went on here. Showing students are discontent with what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we`re more than out. We are Penn State. We aren`t Joe Paterno. We aren`t Sandusky. We aren`t (INAUDIBLE). We are Penn State.


PINSKY: Catherine, you were at the game on Saturday. Were you proud of the show of support for the victims?

JANISKO: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. Honestly, I can honestly say that I have never seen that stadium as with high energy as it was on Saturday. And I have seen -- I saw so many students with their bodies painted blue just for these victims. And one thing in particular that I saw that was on the jumbotron in the stadium was three students, three individuals, who had all of their bodies painted in blue with "Penn State cares" on each individual.

And that`s just something that was small, but it was so loud to the viewers and to the general public to say that we do -- here, we do support against child abuse for these victims and for their families. And we really hope to that game that they saw this.

PINSKY: I mean, it really is an opportunity for Penn State to be a leader on this issue. And I got to tell you, guys, the students, you should be aware of this. I mean, I`ve been talking to and about sexual abuse for 20, 25 years, and I must tell you. People are resistant to looking at these problems. So, there really is an opportunity jeer for you guys, the students at Penn State, to take a leadership role in breaking through our collective denial about this.

Now, I know, there`s been a lot of news stories about the legal ramifications and sex offenders in your neighborhood, but the reality is this is a deeper, more pervasive problem than just the legal issue and the issue of, you know, identifying who`s a sex offender.

Now, I want to take a caller. This is Stephanie. She`s on the line. Stephanie, you wanted to clear up some misconceptions, I guess, about Penn State tonight. Go ahead.

CALLER: STEPHANIE, PENN STATE STUDENT: Hi, Dr. Drew. I`m a current Penn State student. I`d just like to make a comment saying that this administration scandal isn`t a direct reflection on the students or school. As scandals grown, (INAUDIBLE) tens of thousands of dollars for the rape, abuse, and incest national network.

We just wanted to make sure that people know that Penn State stands for doing what they can to bring pride back to the school and bring justice to those in need.

PINSKY: John, I imagine you would agree with that.

TEECE: Absolutely. (INAUDIBLE) who I`m here to represent, we`ve been passing out these blue ribbons all week for seeing the game on Saturday. We`ve been promoting the blue out which was a huge success. It, then, pop like our normal white out (ph), but I think the symbolism was more powerful than anything I`ve seen in Beaver Stadium.

And we`re also in talks with the Heath Evans Foundation. He`s a former NFL tight end with the New Orleans Saints. And, we`re in talks with his foundation to maybe form a partnership and start racing money in awareness for child sexual abuse.

PINSKY: Hey, Brett, I want to go back out to you and ask a tough question. This is something I have a hard time helping people get their head around and that is, is it possible that Sandusky was the good guy that everybody thought he was and had a part of him that was reprehensible? And how then do we reconcile these two pieces?

CONWAY: Yes. That`s a good question. You know, Dr. Drew, when you and I spoke on Friday, you would ask me if I`d ever seen this coming, and this was -- you know, if this is true, no, I never saw it coming. Nobody did. Jerry always had kids around. Kids that -- you know, some kids that hopefully helped in the Second Mile program, probably helped a lot more kids than it ever hurt. But to see this coming, I think, everybody involved was completely blind sighted.

PINSKY: And Steve, you work in family law. You hear these stories. I hear these stories as a clinician. You know that, sometimes, it`s people that do good things that have this part of them that is just incomprehensible. How do we help the public come to terms with this two -- humans are complicated. They`re not all good and all bad and we want to make somebody all bad when they do something like this.

GERSHMAN: Well, I think, they have to look at the overall human being and realize that, perhaps, this is, in Sandusky`s case, it`s something extremely serious. But, when you look at the administrators and the other people involved, yes, people are responsible, but they`re responsible at different levels. And, my concern is that the board of trustees kind of made it into a one-size fits all. We`re going to do the same thing to everybody.


PINSKY: We`re going to distance ourselves from him, really.

GERSHMAN: No matter what their role was, no matter how little or how much they were involved, we`re getting rid of everyone. And, that may not a bit as fair as it could be.

PINSKY: I have a less than a minute left. One last question, that judge that was also on the Second Mile Committee or whatever she did for them, should she have recused herself?

GERSHMAN: Absolutely.


GERSHMAN: It`s the appearance of impropriety.

PINSKY: And how about the not putting an ankle bracelet on him? In California, would that have gone down?




GERSHMAN: And it would have been actual bail or bail bond.

PINSKY: And this is not what he got. He got something that he doesn`t show up --

GERSHMAN: Correct. That`s correct.

PINSKY: It doesn`t look good, Pennsylvania. It doesn`t look good. I`m just saying. Look at what the students are doing. They`re going out of their way to clean up the act and lead. It`s time that the actual leaders lead. Don`t you agree?

GERSHMAN: I agree.

PINSKY: OK. Coming up, we`re going to talk with the students about what is next for the school. They`re the ones, I think, that are going to lead us out of this. They need to question their administration and question what`s going on in those courtrooms. They`re investigating this. please, stay with us.


ASHLEY MONSOUR, LIFELONG PSU FAN FROM GETTYSBURG, PA: It`s a terrible thing, and you know, we feel bad for those kids. I think the media really should be covering that side of things more instead of showing everything about Joe Paterno.



PINSKY: Welcome back. I`ve been talking with Penn State students and alum about what is next for the school in light of the scandal that came to light this last week. So, Catherine, back out to you guys on the campus. Is the school planning anything else for the alleged victims? Is there a systematic sort of plan ahead?

JANISKO: You know, Dr. Drew, right now, it`s so hard to say, but I do know that the impact on these students has been tremendous. I know it personally. I have been so impacted by this that I`m planning in my future to help against child abuse. This is something that`s a huge issue across the nation.

Of course, you would know as of anyone. But this has really impacted these students. That candlelight vigil was unbelievable. To see all of those students peacefully protesting against child abuse was unbelievable for this university. So, I do imagine that students plan on continuing this, yes.

PINSKY: You know, seriously, I`m getting emotional here when you talk, Catherine, because it is a big problem. I always tell people that if somebody have serious enough addiction, that they need to see me. That`s virtually a 100 percent probability are physical or sexual abuse.

Please don`t leave physical abuse out of your campaign. It`s equally as destructive, and it is pervasive in this country. John, before this happened, were you guys -- do you or your peers aware of how big this problem was and are your friends as well going forward to try to lead a way out of this?

TEECE: We were not nearly as aware of as we should have been, obviously, as we know now. It`s obviously a huge problem, and it`s something that hadn`t really personally crossed my mind nearly as much as it should have.

Moving forward, like I said, we`re going to be working with the Heath Evans Foundation to really bring this issue to light and really keep it -- make it a presence at Penn State, make it Penn State`s goal to help fight this. I mean, Penn State has so many resources. And, you know, we just want to do everything we possibly can.

PINSKY: And one other thing. You guys are going to lead us out of this. I really believe the students -- it`s up to the students here to do this, and any even perception of impropriety by the judge, by your administration, by the athletic department, guys, please, hold your institutions in and around the school, not just the school itself, hold them accountable to this.

Hold their hand to the fire. I think there`s an opportunity here for you guys to really be the ones that lead us out. Don`t you agree?

JANISKO: I agree.

TEECE: Absolutely.

PINSKY: And guys, I do appreciate you coming in. I`m going to talk to you two some more as we go along through this. This thing is not going to go away soon. So, I know that we`ll have a chance to speak. And Steven, thank you for joining me as well. I hope, the alumni will continue to stay behind this and stay on top of it.

It`s something everyone feels conflicted about. I mean, Joe Paterno was a national figure, you know? And for Penn State, he did some good work and had this little flaw. This major thing go down under his watch.

GERSHMAN: It`s unfortunate.

PINSKY: It`s very unfortunate.

Now, a few words before I go. Now, I`ve been talking about -- we`ve been talking here tonight about the cycle of abuse, and I have described it as the gift that keeps on giving. Be it sexual, emotional, or physical. Any abuse perpetrated on young people is likely to manifest itself later in life in many and awful way.

Thus, the gift that keeps on giving. Not a gift, a horrible, horrible experience that has consequences throughout the life. Now, it has a never- ending cycle to it, and it goes transgenerationally. People who`ve been abused, it affects their children, and then, their children. It`s transmitted once it has occurred.

Now, I have received e-mails from a number of you who`ve been offended or confused by the term gift that keeps on giving. I`m not making light of this or diminishing this is a tragedy. I use it because it describes the long-term effects of abuse and how profound it is.

Thank you for watching. I`ll see you next time.