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Sandusky Speaks out about Child Rape Scandal

Aired November 16, 2011 - 19:00:00   ET



MIKE GALANOS, HOST (voice-over): More sickening twists and turns in the alleged Penn State child rape scandal. Jerry Sandusky breaks his silence, saying he horsed around with boys in the shower after workouts? He even says he hugged boys and touched their legs, admitting to nearly everything except sexual assault.

This as assistant coach Mike McQueary insists that he stopped one of the rapes and did not run away.

Is Penn State football so powerful that even police helped cover-up Sandusky`s alleged molestation of young boys and will more victims come forward? We`re taking your calls.

ISSUES starts now.











UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was indicted on some 40 counts of sexually abusing young boys, charges that span more than 15 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike McQueary in 2002 was a graduate assistant; says he walks into the locker room, and he says he sees former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulting a 10-year-old boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s going to come out in this case is that Jerry did give showers to kids.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a child rapist.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to support the victims. We`re still here for them. That`s important to us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s so important to put the victims first. I think they`ve gotten really lost in all of this.


GALANOS: Breaking news in the Penn State child sex abuse scandal. A new judge has been assigned to the case. Judge Leslie Dutchcot out, been replaced after we find out she had ties to Sandusky`s foundation, the charitable organization, the Second Mile. That was revealed. And now to ensure the new judge is unbiased, they had to bring him in from another county, Judge Robert Scott. Common sense prevailing in all this.

Good evening, everyone. I`m Mike Galanos filling in for Jane Velez- Mitchell. Live once again from State College, Pennsylvania.

What a week it`s been. I arrived a week ago on this beautiful, pristine campus. We were exacting the president, Spanier, to be let go. Instead, in the dark of night, Joe Paterno is fired, out, has coached his last game after being at the helm since 1966.

And then after that, we know that the riots ensued, mayhem in the streets here in State College. We were dealing with that, in the midst it.

And No. 1, stunning allegations of rape and sexual abuse against little boys at the hands of that man, Jerry Sandusky, at one time a revered member of this community, a man who at one point was going to take over for Joe Paterno as head coach. Now he`s facing justice. Now he`s facing a 40- count indictment, accused of abusing eight little boys over a 15-year period.

Again, the legendary coach, Joe Paterno, is fired at the end of the day, and then again we know what happened after that. An angry student body spoke out in word and in deed.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe! We want Joe! We want Joe! We want Joe!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe! We want Joe! We want Joe! We want Joe!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe! We want Joe! We want Joe! We want Joe!

JERRY SANDUSKY, FORMER ASSISTANT PENN STATE FOOTBALL COACH: I could say that, you know, I have done some of those things. I have horsed around with kids. I have showered after workouts. I have hugged them, and I have touched their leg without intent of sexual contact. But, so if you look at it that way, there are things that wouldn`t, you know -- would be accurate.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We will hear reaction to that. Listening to Jerry Sandusky`s voice from one of the alleged victims` moms. We`re going to hear that coming up in just a little bit.

Once again, I`m live from campus. We want to hear from you. So much to get to tonight. You know the number: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Call me up: 1- 877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297.

But first I want to go out, friend of mine, Lisa Bloom, attorney, author of the book "Think." And was just nominated one of the best non- fiction books, by the way, of the way.

Lisa, congrats on that. Let`s talk about the breaking news, Lisa. New judge. It`s about time, right?

LISA BLOOM, LAWYER/AUTHOR: Absolutely. You know, judges are all bound by ethical rules that require them to get themselves off a case, recuse themselves if there`s even an appearance of impropriety. It`s a very high standard and rightly so. Because we want our judges to be beyond reproach. We don`t want them to have any ties to the defendants who are before them. So this is a very positive step.

GALANOS: All right. Let me bring in Buzz Bissinger. Buzz, author of the books "Shooting Stars," "Friday Night Lights," contributor for "Vanity Fair."

Buzz, again, when you see this situation of a judge who had such close ties to the university, to Sandusky, it speaks of an arrogance, right?

BUZZ BISSINGER, AUTHOR: Well, it speaks of an arrogance, and it speaks to me that, I mean -- Centre County where State College is and Penn State is, rightly, truly is incestuous. Everyone is beholden to the god of Penn State.

For a judge to put this predator -- I hate to say the word "alleged"; I`m tired of it, but I will say "alleged" -- predator out on the street, $100,000 unsecured bail. Unsecured bail. That means he doesn`t put anything up front. And not disclosing that she was a volunteer for his foundation and apparently contributed money is reprehensible. And the state and the courts were finally shamed into doing the right thing and getting another judge.

GALANOS: You know -- Buzz, you know, when you talk about that arrogance. Here I am at State College. I went into a sporting goods store. And a couple of days before they were still stunned that Jerry Sandusky`s waltzing around town and walking into that place, buying weights with his wife, wearing Penn State garb. You`ve got that, the judge.

Do we have Sara Ganim with us? Can we go to Sara, guys?

Sara, a CNN contributor and really has been living this story. And, Sara, you look at this situation. When you talk about that kind of arrogance, and let me -- I want to you get your words on that and also the new judge as we look at this.

SARA GANIM, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. I think that what we`re really seeing here is an acknowledgement that, in this community, you can`t really not have affiliation with Penn State or Second Mile. One or the other is bound to happen. It`s a small community. It`s a tight community. And this was a very revered organization. Second Mile did a lot of good in a lot of people`s eyes.

And I don`t think that judge is -- had any contact with Jerry Sandusky. We have sources that are saying that, sure, her contact with the Second Mile was very minimal. However, it did have that appearance of impropriety. And a lot of people were very upset about it last week. And so that`s where you`re seeing a judge coming in from another county who has absolutely no affiliation with Penn State or Second Mile and will be hearing that preliminary hearing anticipated on December 7.

GALANOS: Let`s get to Mike McQueary the other breaking news item. We set the dial for you, Mike McQueary. 2002, he`s the graduate student who said he went to Jerry Sandusky who sexually assaulted a 10-year-old boy in the showers at Penn State.

Now, we were led to believe, from what we saw from the grand jury presentment, that McQueary sees this, was so distraught, he just turns and gets out of there and didn`t stop it. Now he has e-mails to a friend, communication with a friend, November 8. Let me read the e-mail that we`re getting here.

It says, "I did stop it. Not physically, but I made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room. I did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police. No one can imagine my thoughts. Who wants to be in my shoes for the 30 to 45 seconds? Trust me: I had to make tough, impacting quick decisions."

So, you hear this. Do we have a contradiction or not?

Richard Herman, attorney, what do you make of this? I mean, do you think -- and let`s say this, as well: from my understanding, a grand jury presentment is a summary. It`s not everything. So do you think this jives with his testimony to the grand jury? Do you think we have a contradiction here?

RICHARD HERMAN: Look, we probably do not have a contradiction. As you`ve said accurately, this is a synopsis of what happened before the grand jury.

But let`s not make him into a hero. OK? He walked away from that room. He didn`t go in and take that little boy out of that room with him. And as far as I know, he didn`t take a baseball bat to Sandusky. So he`s not such a hero. He stopped it. He broke it up. And then he left. He went to police. But he left the boy with him. I mean, come on. Unbelievable, Mike.

GALANOS: Well, you make a good point there. Let`s say that he did go and he did talk to these people. At the end of the day, keep in mind, he still knew what the punishment was for Sandusky and all it was, was Jerry Sandusky had to turn in his keys and couldn`t take kids into the lockers and the showers any more. That`s it. Is that really sitting well with you if you`re McQueary at the end of the day?

All right. Again, we`re taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Coming up we`re going to hear the voice of Jerry Sandusky, let everybody react to that. And we`re going to talk to someone who knew Jerry Sandusky, worked with him in the Second Mile program. Stay with us.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think McQueary saw Jerry in the shower with the kid. And I think, like a lot of people, you assume the worst ,and he probably was caught off guard when he saw it and probably didn`t stay there very long.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Word is he sexually abused young boys, one as young as 8 years old.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accused of using his position to prey on numerous young boys for more than a decade. The showers in the locker room of the Penn State football team, several top Penn State administrators failing to report suspected child abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A graduate student testified he discovered Sandusky sexually abusing a boy estimated to be 10 years old. The student reported it to Penn State`s head football coach, Joe Paterno. Paterno said, in part, it was clear that the witness saw something inappropriate involving Mr. Sandusky.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Paterno is no longer the head football coach, effective immediately.


GALANOS: Welcome back to Penn State campus. I`m Mike Galanos filling in for Jane Velez-Mitchell. Call me up, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

This child sex abuse scandal has affected countless people. Again, people who trusted Jerry Sandusky. People like Patty Coble, who worked with Sandusky at his charity, again, the Second Mile. Patty joins me now from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Patty, thank you for joining us and sharing your insights.


GALANOS: You worked with Sandusky.

COBLE: Thank you.

GALANOS: Yes, thanks again for -- you worked with that organization for ten years. Tell me about when you met Jerry Sandusky and did you trust him at the time? Did you see him as this revered, respected man in the community who was doing a great thing for this organization?

COBLE: Oh, absolutely. When I -- when I met him, obviously, I was, you know, at awe being in his presence, and being a part of, you know, what seemed to be a wonderful foundation for young children at risk.

GALANOS: All right, Patty. So, looking back now, is there anything that you saw then that you think, "Aha, now I know where all this led to." There was something that made you -- makes you suspicious now and you connect the dots, looking back?

COBLE: Well, I can`t say that I ever saw anything suspicious. What I did see was, you know, Jerry would have young boys at the golf outings, at the football game sidelines, at picnics, and, you know, the -- you know, the boys would bring their footballs so that they could, you know, throw the football with a Penn State player or maybe an NFL player. And, you know, it`s just -- it`s just boys being boys.

There was never anything inappropriate that would have set off any bells or whistles for myself, because if I would have seen anything I would have -- I would have never been quiet, not for a second.

GALANOS: All right, Patty. Let`s listen to Jerry Sandusky, again, in this interview, riveting interview with NBC`s Bob Costas on a new show, "Rock Center," where he admits to some of the allegations. Let`s listen to that.


SANDUSKY: I could say that, you know, I have done some of those things. I have horsed around with kids. I have showered after workouts. I -- I have hugged them. And I have touched their leg without intent of sexual contact, but -- so, if you look at it that way, there are things that -- that wouldn`t, you know -- would be accurate.


GALANOS: Again, grown men don`t shower with little boys naked if they`re not their own sons.

I want to go back to Patty. Patty, just your thoughts, hearing his voice and hearing those explanations.

COBLE: It`s -- it`s disgusting. You know, he`s -- he`s clearly a very sick man, and unfortunately, he has taken the innocence of children. And from what his response is, I`m not really sure that he`s -- he clearly understands what -- what allegations and charges are against him.

GALANOS: Patty, this organization was founded by Jerry Sandusky in 1977. Do you believe he founded this organization so he could have access to young boys?

COBLE: As I look back now and as I hear different situations, I was with someone the other day that told a story with Jerry. And unfortunately, I -- I have a strong sense that this -- this may have been his whole purpose. And it`s just -- it`s just so -- it`s just so distraught and so twisted, and just -- it`s just a horrible, horrible situation.

And these -- these children that have been victims and, for the ones that will come forward now, and not only those that Jerry may have touched their lives but all the other innocent young children out there, they need a voice, and they need to know that it`s OK to tell.

GALANOS: And, Patty, it`s got to be heartbreaking, because you`ve seen these wide-eyed, innocent kids who thought they were just going to a Penn State game and able to hang out on the sideline with their heroes, these players.

COBLE: Yes, yes. It is. Because, jeez, you know, I mean, these are at-risk children. These are children that are given a second chance. And, you know, their parents are just so grateful that, you know, they are able to be part of an organization that is just solely for the benefit of a child.

And, you know, I saw countless young people with big smiles on their faces, and, you know, just so happy to be part of something, and unfortunately...

GALANOS: That`s it. We -- Patty, again -- we`ll talk more with Patty. And let`s keep in mind the victim. They`re not victims one through eight. They`re not numbers. They were innocent little boys. Let`s keep that in mind.

We`re going to continue. I want to hear from you: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Call me up.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe! We want Joe! We want Joe!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe! We want Joe! We want Joe!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe! We want Joe! We want Joe!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The outrage that we feel is nothing compared to the physical and psychological suffering that allegedly took place.

SANDUSKY: And we were showering and -- and horsing around. And he actually turned all the showers on and was actually sliding across the floor and, as I recall, possibly like snapping a towel in horseplay.


GALANOS: There you go. Jerry Sandusky in that interview with Bob Costas on NBC, calling it horseplay.

I want to bring back my expert panel. I want to go to Dr. Michael Brown, our forensic psychologist.

Doctor, your listen to that voice. I mean, he`s admitting to showering with little boys. What are you hearing there, Doc?

DR. MICHAEL BROWN, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. Well, there`s a rationalization for his behavior, which oftentimes happen with people who engage in these kinds of behaviors. And what you essentially have is excuse making, that this is really OK behavior. "We`re just playing around. We were horsing around."

Even the last segment, you heard your guest talk about "boys will be boys." And that`s typically the way individuals who engage in these behaviors if, indeed, the allegations are true against Mr. Sandusky, those are the kinds of ways they make it OK with themselves and present it to the world, as "It was just fooling around. We were just playing in the shower. There`s nothing anyone should be concerned about here."

GALANOS: And his attorney is saying that, Joe Amendola: "That`s what jocks do." Give me a break. A grown man and a 10-year-old do not horse around naked in the showers. I don`t even know two 20-year-olds that are on the same football team would do that. But that`s another argument.

Lisa Bloom, author of the book "Think." Lisa, just your reaction to hear his voice and these explanations?

BLOOM: Listen, if I represented these victims, I would be going over this videotape with a fine-tooth comb. I thought the pauses were really shocking in that interview, when he was asked "Are you sexually attracted to young boys?"

And he paused, and he repeated the question. "Am I sexually attracted to underage boys?" He really had to think about it, and then he said no.

I mean, most people, Mike, you would say, "Are you kidding me? Absolutely not." I mean, most people would strongly deny that immediately. The fact that he had so many pauses in this interview shows there`s something up.

And I absolutely agree with you. There`s no excuse for an adult man to be showering with a little boy. These aren`t jocks. They`re 10-year- old children.

GALANOS: And they`re innocent little boys who thought they were just going to be part of Penn State football and hang out with their heroes on the sidelines.

Buzz, to Lisa`s point. Seventeen seconds before he finally half- heartedly said he was not sexually attracted to young boys.

BISSINGER: Well, I mean, the whole interview was -- he came across to me as arrogant, as despicable, as trying to be manipulative, as using a very soft voice to sort of justify that he did nothing.

Let me just go over one public document we have, which is the grand jury report. Here is what he is accused of. He says he didn`t do any of this. Genital kissing, inserting his penis into a child`s mouth, anal intercourse, oral sex on at least 20 occasions, back cracking, kissing, blowing on a victim`s stomach, touching a penis, as we know, a rape, tickling, knee touching, lying on top of victims.

GALANOS: Buzz, I hate to cut you off. But as you read that, his attorney is saying these kids are going to say that never happened. More coming up. Keep it here.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a case about football; it`s not a case about universities. It`s a case about children who have had their innocence stolen from them and a culture that did nothing to stop it or prevent it from happening to others.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dr. Spanier is no longer president of the university. In addition, Joe Paterno is no longer the head football coach effective immediately.

CROWD: We want Joe. We want Joe. We want Joe.


GALANOS: Incredible emotions here at Penn State and I was in the midst of all it that night when the mayhem ensued in the streets. I just couldn`t believe how fast that crowd turned. They were chanting Joe Paterno`s name. But things turned on a dime. The next thing you know, news vans are being tipped over.

Emotions have changed. Perspective has changed. I think that candlelight vigil last Friday that put the victims first, that was a good start. The game honoring the victims or at least at the beginning of the game -- $20,000 raised all that good.

Let`s get back to the matter at hand and that is alleged victims of horrific child abuse. And in the midst of that you got to wonder what are victims thinking as they hear Jerry Sandusky`s voice.

I`m Mike Galanos filling in once again for Jane Velez-Mitchell. I`m going to get so some calls 1-877-TELL-HLN is the number.

Let`s listen one more time to Jerry Sandusky. Again, this guy is out and about. I go to a sporting goods store and a couple of days before he was waltzing in there with his Penn State garb on buying some weights. He`s out and about but yet these victims and victims` moms are giving interviews, they`re the ones in hiding. Unbelievable.

Let`s listen to a little bit more of that interview. Bob Costas, NBC News. Here`s Jerry Sandusky.


BOB COSTAS, NBC NEWS: Are you a pedophile?


COSTAS: Are you sexually attracted to young boys, to underage boys?

SANDUSKY: Am I sexually attracted to underage boys?


SANDUSKY: Sexually attracted? No. I enjoy young people. I love to be around them. I -- but no, I`m not sexually attracted to young boys.


GALANOS: All right. I got to go back to Dr. Michael Brannon, forensic psychologist, on that one. There it is and we were talking about it Michael. I got to get your take. 17 seconds to finally say no he`s not attracted to young boys. Give us your take.

MICHAEL BRANNON, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. Even hearing that take that he talks about he doesn`t have a sexual attraction, he really thinks of it more as he loves young boys. And that`s, again, the rationalization that`s used by individuals who engage in those type of behaviors.

So a lot of time what you`ll see is them reframe the way they think about those relationships. Pedophiles, if indeed this is what we`re referring to here, pedophiles will actually see their relationships as very different as the outside world may see it and have very little insight into the inappropriateness of that behavior which they are framing as, it`s love. It`s in the best interest of the child; it`s a loving relationship they are not getting anywhere else.

GALANOS: Right. Ok.

I want to bring in Jean Casarez, friend of mine, attorney, legal correspondent for "In Session" on our sister network TruTV. Jerry Sandusky gives this interview. Does he hurt himself legally by doing that?

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Mike, this will follow him through the entire case. Think about the opening statement of the prosecution. They will have quotes of this in their opening statement. They will have it in their closing statement.

Remember Conrad Murray that we just finished? The statement he gave police followed him all the way through. Many believe this is one reason why he was convicted. Could have been a hung jury but it wasn`t a hung jury.

GALANOS: We`re already hearing the same terminology that you get it from the grand jury presentment, "horsing around". What is his attorney saying, "Horsing around". What`s he saying say in the interview, "horseplay".

CASAREZ: And he admits so many things. He`s admitting many of the crimes already. They are not all specific intent to commit sexual abuse on a child, other endangering the welfare of a child. Didn`t he admit to endangering the welfare of a child? Think about it.

GALANOS: Yes absolutely. All right.

And when you mention child, victims -- let`s listen, "Good Morning America", the mother of victim number one. The latest victim in the chronology, 2005-2006 -- she`s reacting. And listen to her words as she`s talking about her son`s reaction to hearing Jerry Sandusky`s voice. Here we go.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This mom says her son Victim Number One cried when he saw Sandusky defending himself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said, "Well, why would it make you cry?" And he, he said, "Because I`m afraid. I`m afraid he`ll go free.


GALANOS: That`s just heartbreaking. Again, to think about this victim listening to Jerry Sandusky`s voice. He`s out and about, yet his mom has got disguise her voice and the victim is worried about Jerry Sandusky going free. Unbelievable.

Doctor Michael Brannon got to get you back in on that; what goes through a victim`s mind as they hear Jerry Sandusky?

BRANNON: Yes. It varies greatly, Mike. What can happen is that an individual can be traumatized to the degree that just to hear the voice of the person who was the perpetrator against can trigger great emotion like distress, anxiety, depression, fear, not wanting to leave the home.

Remember that a relationship has been violated. A trusting relationship where they looked up to this figure as somebody who was important to them, who meant something that they felt that they could bond with. And now that was violated and it may even transfer over to all of their other relationships as well. They may begin to doubt those other relationships too.

GALANOS: Yes. You know, as I went to the game Saturday, and I saw little kids about that age, 8, 10, 12 years old I was just thinking of just substitute an alleged victim here, throwing a football around and they`re so excited to see their beloved Nittany Lions play. Let`s keep that in mind.

We`ve got some phone calls. Let`s go to Sandy in Louisiana. Again 1- 877-JVM-SAYS is the number. Sandy, are you with us?

SANDY, LOUISIANA: Yes. Hi, Mike, thanks for taking my call.

GALANOS: Thanks Sandy. What are your thoughts here Sandy?

SANDY: First off, Mike, I would like to say I applaud the courage that it`s taken to get all these victims to come forward. But by next question Mike, is what is this defense going to put these victims through when this goes to trial? Because when a woman brings sexual allegations up of rape, they always turn it on the woman saying you provoked this. You dressed this way. You acted this way. My heart breaks for these victims but my concern is what is this defense going to do to prove --

GALANOS: Sandy, that`s a great question. I love the way you brought it back to the heart here of what the victims could go through. I got to turn the lawyers loose on that one.

Lisa Bloom I`ll start with you. What will the defense put the victims through?


This is very important for everyone to understand. Victims can and do every day in this country go into court and testify against pedophiles and predators and win their case and walk out with their heads held high. We see a lot of cases in the media where that doesn`t happen, in celebrity cases.

But I want everybody to know that it can be a very empowering experience. I represented many victims of child sexual abuse. Of course, they`re very scared to go into court and testify. But I prepare them and your attorney will prepare you if you`re a victim.

You go into court. You tell the truth. You get a conviction. You`re going to feel like a million bucks because not only have you brought justice against that predator but you protected other children. It`s very important that people do that.

GALANOS: Well put, Lisa Bloom.

Richard Herman your thoughts on this; what a victim may go through, through this trial?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Just step back for a minute. We`re in the United States of America. He`s innocent until proven guilty. We`ve got to say that during this show, please, Mike.

Now, these victims, if they come testify, they are going to be called to rely upon recollection of events 10, 12 years ago in some instances. We heard the defense attorney say they`ve already spoken to the 2002 alleged rape victim who is going to come in and say it never happened.

You`re looking at the Michael Jackson molestation defense case, deja vu all over again. "Yes, I slept with these kids. Yes, I hung out with them. I horsed around with them. There was no specific criminal intent. I didn`t mean to do it. I was a nice guy helping kids."

That`s the defense. It`s disgusting. Look, I hear him talk in that video. If it was Lisa, I know she like me would have gone insane with that statement. It sounded like he was on drugs.


GALANOS: Let`s listen to that Richard. Let`s listen. And there`s a presumption of innocence. You`re right. Let`s listen to the lawyer, Joe Amendola. And to your point, Richard, he`s already laying it out there and already using that term "horseplay". Let`s listen.


JOE AMENDOLA, JERRY SANDUSKY`S ATTORNEY: We`re working, we`ve been working for the last nine days since these allegations were actually filed. We`re working on finding the kids who are involved. And having those kids say this didn`t happen. This -- what`s been alleged with Jerry didn`t happen and, in fact, we have scores of other kids who Jerry helped through the Second Mile program who want to come to his aid, who want the public to know that he changed our lives in a positive way and nothing, nothing of a sexual nature ever occurred.


GALANOS: Buzz Bissinger, weigh in on this. He`s talking about other kids who may have been helped but we`re talking eight victims here -- eight alleged victims.

BUZZ BISSINGER, COMMENTATOR, "NEWSWEEK": Well, what he says there sir relevant. Personally, I think in the case of Sandusky it`s the presumption of guilt until he`s proven innocent. This grand jury report, all the facts in it are not made up and I know it`s a one-sided document; that other kids are going to rally to his defense means absolutely nothing. The big problem is and what makes this case different because we all know defense attorneys would drive trucks through defendants is McQueary a male eyewitness. That`s very rare. And the fact that there are now contradictions because of that e-mail it could be very problematic.

HERMAN: Yes, exactly.

GALANOS: All right. We`ll be talking about that.

Jean Casarez real quick on how difficult it could be for victims and what the defense has to do to a victim in a case like this.

CASAREZ: I think the victims are on trial. And that`s going to be a challenge. Are they going to cower in the corner? Are they going to come forward and band together and have strength to fight this? I don`t think we know.

GALANOS: Let`s hope. Let`s hope they feel the support of the nation as we`ve all watched this.

And by the way, go to There`s a timeline there and other different aspects of this case. That timeline will really get you up to speed and really take you inside this heartbreaking story again with victims first.

We`re taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. So we want to hear from you. Want to hear from you even through the blog as well,

More from State College coming up; keep it right here.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was indicted on 40 counts of sexually abusing young boys, charges that span more than 15 years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t think it would be beyond the realm of possibility that there are other victims that exist here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Paterno is no longer the head football coach effective immediately.


GALANOS: I want to take you back it was a week ago we saw that news van being tipped offer after the late night announcement that Joe Paterno has been fired. By the way right here in State College some of the leaders have been questioning the decision as did we, why would you make that decision at 10:00 at night. Chief of Police Tom King saying, it would have been nice to have a morning announcement, more time to prepare, sober people. So just something we all could learn from if there`s going some announcement that`s going to stir emotions, maybe you might want to make it at 8:00 in the morning versus 10:00 at night; some of the things that they are wrestling with here at State College.

I`m Mike Galanos, coming at you once again from State College Pennsylvania. And really one of the men in the eye of the storm here is assistant coach, Mike McQueary.

Let`s get you up to speed. 2002, Mike McQueary is a 28-year-old graduate assistant. He says walks into the showers of Penn State and sees Sandusky sexual assaulting a 10-year-old boy. Grand jury presentment made it sound like he just ran out of there and didn`t stop it. Now he`s saying otherwise. He`s also speaking out. CBS News, he talked Armen Keteyian briefly. Let`s listen to that.


ARMEN KETEYIAN, CBS NEWS: Describe your emotions right now.

MIKE MCQUEARY, PENN STATE ASSISTANT FOOTBALL COACH: All over the place, just kind of shaken.



KETEYIAN: You said what? Like a --

MCQUEARY: Snow globe.


GALANOS: Ok. So, he can`t say much at this point. And here`s what he said via e-mail to a friend November 8th as he felt he was getting hammered for the way he is being portrayed to have dealt with this. He said this. "I did stop it, not physically, but made sure it was stopped when I left that locker room." And he says he did have discussions with police and with the official at the university in charge of police.

Well as of now no police report from McQueary has surfaced and, again, we heard him talking there. He went on to say that hey no one can imagine my thoughts or wants to be in my shoes for those 30 to 45 seconds; he said he had to make some tough, impacting, quick decisions.

So we all wonder, ok. Is his testimony to the grand jury jiving with this e-mail? I want to bring in Jean Casarez again. All right. Jean, do we have a contradiction here? Can you definitively say at this point? We still have to wait, right?

CASAREZ: Maybe yes, maybe no. Presentment is 32 pages I think and it is a summary of all of the testimony. He says that he went to police. In the presentment, I specifically read it says police never questioned McQueary. Well did he go to police? But then they never questioned him? It might be consistent.

GALANOS: Lisa Bloom, obviously, you know the defense attorneys are watching this and he`s going to go after McQueary at any chance. It to be problematic, couldn`t it?

BLOOM: It`s hugely problematic.

GALANOS: And it`s a contradiction; he`s the star witness.

BLOOM: It`s hugely problematic. You mean to tell me a grown man walks into a shower, sees another man raping a 10-year-old boy and does nothing physically to stop it and walks out and leaves the little boy there with the predator? Are you kidding me?

He says this was a tough decision for him what to do. Shocking, yes. Shocking of course I understand. But tough? What`s tough about the decision about whether you leave a little boy in the shower being raped or whether you walk out alone? I don`t understand what`s tough about that.

GALANOS: Lisa, that`s a tremendous point there. You got to figure, your recollection would be crystal clear if you saw that. The janitor who saw the incident in 2000, he was a Korean War vet. Yes, this had shell shocked him.

Let`s go to a caller real quick. Paul, California -- Paul, your comment or question.

PAUL, CALIFORNIA: Yes. My comment is they fired Joe Paterno because he went to authorities. Why aren`t they firing McQueary because he didn`t do anything?


GALANOS: That`s the sentiment right here. Yes, that was the sentiment right here in State College and it was a week ago that every student I talked to said hey if Joe Paterno is going to go, McQueary has got to go. And that`s -- you know that`s a good point there. Does that change people`s perception of McQueary, this e-mail?

But to Lisa`s point wait a minute. You know, you get in there and you make sure this is stopped.

So we`re going to continue. I want to hear from you. 1-877-JVM-SAYS -- excuse me -- getting the phone numbers mixed up. Want to hear from you. More calls like that from Paul coming up. More from State College in just a moment; stay with us.




CROWD: Penn State.


CROWD: Penn State.

CROWD: We want Joe. We want Joe. We want Joe.


GALANOS: What a wave of emotions. And I was there for all of it from the protests after Joe Paterno`s firing to the calm, candlelight vigil that set a completely different tone. And by the way, $20,000 raised at the game, Nebraska/Penn State game, this past Saturday to help prevent child abuse in the state of Pennsylvania and another organization raising $280,000 at last count, so over $300,000 raised to help prevent child abuse.

The real victory, if you ask me, coming out of all of this.

Hey we`ve got some breaking news. CNN confirming that Penn State police say they never saw any kind of report from Mike McQueary concerning that 2002 incident. He`s saying that he did, the e-mail that he did go to university police back then.

Lisa Bloom, where are we with this? What do you make of this seeming contradiction here?

BLOOM: Look, as a journalist and television commentator I always want people to speak out because it`s interesting and we like to know. And we have a First Amendment right to hear from them. But as an attorney I would never let an important witness n the case be talking. I would never let the defendant be talking. Because all of these statements can and will be used against him.

McQueary is such an important witness. He needs to be talking to police and prosecutors and otherwise not giving interviews at this point. It`s going to get all twisted around on him when it gets to trial.

GALANOS: Got it.

Ok. Let`s go to a student here, Eric Weiss. He`s with "Onward States" a news organization. And you were there as was I for the mayhem that ensued in the streets and here we are today. Can you believe the whirlwind in one week?

ERIC WEISS, "ONWARD STATES": It`s been a roller coaster. I mean just up and down. Right now there`s just a lot of questions, you know, rumors floating around, the big rumor about the Paterno statue at Beaver Stadium being torn down. And I think people are just looking for answers at this point.

GALANOS: Ok. When you looked back, and I know you took some pictures of what went on a week ago Wednesday night after Joe Paterno has now coached his last game. What was going on -- as we look at some of those photos -- just in your mind, as it was unfolding before you, what was going on with you personally?

WEISS: Just following everything around. I mean there was times when we didn`t know where we should be, what was happening where. Just as the story unfolded it was -- there`s a lot of confusion at the time too just where we needed to be with everything.

GALANOS: Do you question the 10:00 p.m. evening announcement? Do you think it should have been at 8:00 a.m. announcement?

WEISS: I mean they did what they need to do. I felt like that the point that things have been taken in dealing with what was going on, I think they made the right decision in that case.

GALANOS: You think -- do you think a night time announcement was the way to go or do you think should they have waited? The announcement itself aside just the timing of the announcement, do you question it as some around have?

WEISS: I think there was rumors floating around before the announcement was made that what was going on was going to take place. That Joe Paterno was going to be fired. I think it was bound to happen.

GALANOS: Bound to happen either way. Ok. Eric good talking to you.

Again so much emotion here from State College as we look at some of the pictures that Eric took. It was surreal, again, to be in the midst of all of that. But we appreciate Eric.

Again, there`s been some positives to come out of here. A candlelight vigil putting victims first and a lot of money raised as well. Let`s put victims first as we continue following this story.

More coming up.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is still our school and we`re still proud of it even though we have taken a huge hit in reputation because of the actions of one and a few.


GALANOS: They`ve never seen anything like it. You`re seeing the students at the game on Saturday. So many people so silent, moment of silence for the victims and again $20,000 raised. That was a good thing. That was a victory, the ultimate victory coming out of Saturday.

Go to for the latest breaking news.

A new judge in this case someone without ties to Sandusky or the organization Second Mile or the university. That`s big.

And there`s also a photo timeline; all that we`ve seen, all that we`ve been through, all the emotions over a tumultuous week and a community and victims now trying to heal.

I`m Mike Galanos in for Jane Velez-Mitchell.

"NANCY GRACE" is next.