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Syracuse Sex Abuse Allegations

Aired November 18, 2011 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

Another university confronts a child sex abuse allegation. What is going on here?

And a woman who herself was sexually molested by a coach years ago is here with us tonight hoping other child victims will finally tell the world what has happened to them.

Then a secret recording just made public, busts a couple of bullies. You wouldn`t believe what they did for a living. They`re teachers.

Let`s get started.

And thank you for joining us. We are coming to you live tonight.

Now, in the wake of the Penn State sex scandal, yet another school comes under fire. Allegations have surfaced against Syracuse University`s assistant basketball coach. He`s accused of molesting two young ball boys. Watch this.


MIKE GALANOS, HLN ANCHOR (on camera): The Penn State child sex abuse scandal and really the man in the eye of the storm is Mike McQueary.

MIKE MCQUEARY, ASSISTANT FOOTBALL COACH, PENN STATE UNIVERSITY: I`m not going into detail about anything, but I think it`s obvious I tried to do the right thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Another university is under the microscope for child sex abuse claims. This is time it is Syracuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The university investigated Associate Coach Bernie Fine.

BOBBY DAVIS, ALLEGED SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIM: I know I cringed up and didn`t want it to happen, and I was very, you know, I was like what`s going on here. I just never been disgusted.


PINSKY: The school says it did handle this properly and investigated when the - the head investigated when the allegations were first made. That coach has just now been placed on leave, however.

How many more of these stories are out there and what can we do to change this? My hope is that by bringing this forward and talking about these things we can make change.

After watching our coverage, we got a call from a young woman who knows one of our producers, and she wanted to come on the show to help other victims and herself to contribute to change. So instead of just covering these terrible stories, we can maybe stop them from happening or change our response a little bit.

(A portion of this transcript has been removed.)

PINSKY: Steve - Steve, you`re shaking your head and nodding vigorously about doing something about this.

DR. STEPHEN WOLFSON, THERAPIST, COUNSELS SEX OFFENDERS: I think this is the kind of thing that lives in secrecy and shadows that we have to be able to open up, you know, and let people understand that this is something that`s happening all over our country.

PINSKY: And you primarily treat the offender side, right?

WOLFSON: Yes, I do.

PINSKY: And you understand how - first, I`m ambivalent about offenders because I know that sometimes they were the victims or often they were the victims themselves. But by the same token, you can also sort of sympathize with the feeling you that want to just - there`s a lot of people want to destroy the victimizers. There`s very tense feelings of hatred towards them.

WOLFSON: Tremendous anger and vilification, and realizing that these people are human beings quite often is lost in the - in the effort to stop this terrible abuse.

PINSKY: Does what happened in Penn State ring sort of familiar for you? And as you watch these stories unfold, does your speculation that this is sort of familiar - yes.

WOLFSON: Unfortunately, yes.


WOLFSON: I see many of these cases. And, you know, it`s quite often it`s a difficult process to bring these people forward into the community.

PINSKY: How do you help people understand, my viewers understand how he could deny these allegations so glibly during that, say, that Bob Costas interview, and in the same interview come forward with this sort of, "Well, maybe I - maybe I shouldn`t have showered with those kids." I mean, his thinking was so off.

WOLFSON: Well, denial. I mean, that`s really the keyword, "denial." And there`s so many forms of it that we see in these offenders. They, themselves often don`t believe that they`ve done these things. They`re in such a -

PINSKY: Or disavow it so much.

WOLFSON: Exactly.

(A portion of this transcript has been removed.)

PINSKY: -- what, yes. Because you`re participating, and it`s 13 - 13 years old.

Just for everybody out there, 13-year-olds can`t consent to anything, 13-year-olds don`t cultivate romantic relationships with adults. You`re going to hear some stories later in the show tonight about - in fact, I have some questions coming up where people alleging a four- or five-year- old is being too alluring with the perpetrator. I mean, it`s the easiness of -

Let me go to a throw here. ESPN interviewed one of the alleged Syracuse victims. He says the assistant coach molested him whole he was just a young man as a ball boy. Watch this.


DAVIS: First he started rubbing my leg and then he`s sitting, you know, he`s sitting next to me, rubbing my leg, and then just gradually, you know, put his hand down my pants. And I would just be tensed and, you know, you`re holding my leg, you`re holding my - and things like that. But I think I got to the point where I`m like, you know, just get it over, get it done, you know, and then he`ll leave, you know?


(A portion of this transcript has been removed.)

PINSKY: Usually the age that they were physically or sexually abused.

WOLFSON: That`s right. And that`s where it gets perpetrated transgenerationally and in communities and families. So the idea that this person was trying to relate to you as though he were your age is consistent with a lot of those theories.

PINSKY: Yes. I`ve got to go to break, guys. But, yes.

This is what I see all the time, which is a victim arrests, at least a part of them arrests, and that part is walled off or disavowed and has no way to express itself except by connecting to another person that similar age, which is - which is sick, guys. Let`s call it what it is that`s sick. When somebody, an adult is trying to do that with a young person, it`s not OK.

And parents, look alive. If something just doesn`t pass the sniff test or instinctively you feel uncomfortable, act.

Coming up, we`re going to have more of Jill`s brave and inspiring story. Plus, we`re going to talk to a man who`s been on the other side of this nightmare. He is a man - there he is - who`s once himself an abuser. What can we learn from him? Stay with us.


PINSKY: Tonight, as new abuse allegations surface at another university, we are retrying yet to understand why abuse happens, how we can stop it, where it comes from.

We are joined by convicted sex offender and author of the book "Overcoming Sexual Terrorism," Jake Goldenflame. He joins us now.

Jake, when you hear a story like Jill`s, she was 13 when she was abused, what goes through your mind?

JAKE GOLDENFLAME, CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER: What goes through my mind is the best reason of all for helping sex offenders to heal, because when you heal them enough, they can be used in the healing of the victim. There`s nothing that helps a victim of child sexual abuse more in recovering from it than to have the opportunity to confront the person who abused them, tell them to their face the damage that was done to them in full, and hear if the abuser has one to offer whatever apology they may wish to offer so that the victim is empowered again and feels at least I had a chance to confront him, to tell him and to hear whatever he had to say by way of apology. It moves them forward.

But you can`t get that unless you take the abused person and first put them through enough healing so they can take responsibility for what they did, and develop remorse from it. And that`s the purpose of healing.

(A portion of this transcript has been removed.)

PINSKY: And Stephen, this is really - we hear all the time, is that these abuse - whether it`s physical or sexual, people will always go, oh, I`ve - I`ve dealt with that. It`s behind me. They wall it off in a box, in the back of their head, and that ends up being a piece of self that they no longer can access. It`s disavowed.

WOLFSON: Very true. Very true. And then we see it erupt sometimes in terrible ways in their lives, their relationships -

PINSKY: Can sex offenders be fully rehabilitated? That`s the question that people are struggling with today, how to deal with guys like Jake, that - that say they`re OK now, they`re well, they`re struggling in a program of recovery. Should people accept that?

WOLFSON: Well, the research I`m familiar with shows that as a - as a group, as a cohort, and - and that throws all types of sex offenders in, about 17 percent will re-offend after five years. That`s quite a bit lower than the level that people - most people think. So, with treatment, sex offenders can be rehabilitated.

But the stigma is so large, and people are so terrified of this, and the anger from the -

PINSKY: Well, because - a reason we saw - Jake, I`m going to go to you, being - when somebody perpetrates something like this, they`ve destroyed a life, and that person will transmit this trauma transgenerationally, often. Even if they don`t perpetrate themselves, they`ll often bring perpetrators into their life. It goes through multiple generations, unless somebody gets treatment, and a lot of people either don`t know they have a problem, or, B, have no access to resources.

GOLDENFLAME: The only difference I would have with you is I would not say that you`ve destroyed a life. That - that renders the victim powerless to recover.

I`m not saying the victim can overcome it like it never happened before. That`s not going to occur. But they can rebuild their life. I - I don`t want to leave the victim being pictured as somebody who is destroyed for the rest of their lives. I said -


PINSKY: Well, let - let me qualify it by the - the drug addicts that I treat that have died of addiction, fueled by their trauma, there`s no recovering those guys, and I see lots of them.

(A portion of this transcript has been removed.)

GOLDENFLAME: I - I agree, and that`s - that`s one of the reasons why I advocate that in sentencing offenders, they should also have the offenders pay for the recovery of the victim.

PINSKY: Well, that`s interesting. So they should be responsible for getting help and the person to get better. Stephen, you`re shaking your head yes -

WOLFSON: Absolutely. There needs to be some taking of responsibility and an acknowledgment of the damage and the harm that they`ve done, and some action -

PINSKY: Now listen, guys. Jake, I believe you were the one in this show that said that the average perpetrator perpetrates on 117 victims, the average. Is that - was that your data?

GOLDENFLAME: That`s not my - my statement. I don`t recall making any -

PINSKY: Somebody said that. Maybe Heath said that.

GOLDENFLAME: I don`t have that figure.

PINSKY: All right. How many - what would you say, Steve? How many - a perpetrator, on average, how many would they perpetrate?

WOLFSON: Well, unfortunately I can`t support that statistic.

PINSKY: What - what would you say with that?

WOLFSON: Well, it depends on the type. There are different - there are many different types. There - there`s no type of - one type of perpetrator -

PINSKY: I see.

WOLFSON: -- that you can say you -

PINSKY: But the point I`m making is that they may do it dozens of times. They may even do it more than dozens of times. And, the fact is, if they have to pay the treatment for all of those folks, it will never happen.

WOLFSON: Absolutely. Some are responsible for many, many, many.

PINSKY: Are those the ones that we should just not worry about rehabilitating?

WOLFSON: I think those that are in a high risk category, which we can identify, should be the ones that we target for the highest amount of intervention.

(A portion of this transcript has been removed.)

PINSKY: Want to know what made HLN`s top 10s? Find out at There are lots of must-see, must-share stories on our new website.

When we come back, I will answer your questions about abuse. And later, a truly shocking story about a young girl and what happened to her at her own school. It`s another one of those stories that makes me ill. Stay with us.


PINSKY: The stories we have been covering this week have prompted conversations you might never have before, and certainly not with the people closest to you. But many of you continue to ask and dig important areas.

So let`s get right to the phones. Donna-Lynne in North Carolina, what is on your mind?


PINSKY: Hey, Donna-Lynne.

DONNA-LYNNE: I`m a trauma survivor of every kind, and I just want to say that because of social media and what we do see now on headline news, because, like myself who no longer wear the look of shame, make it possible for others not to wear theirs. Due to the - to those professionals like yourselves, the survivors are speaking out now, and we will be heard.

Thank you ever so much for caring, Dr. Drew. It`s very hard for us (INAUDIBLE).

PINSKY: Donna-Lynne, I - I know it is, and you warm my heart. And you just heard Jill the last couple segments talk about her story.

And it is - it is those who are suffering in silence that should be empowering those of you that are beginning to speak out, because it`s not OK for anybody in this country to suffer in silence with this nonsense any more. It`s not OK. Whether it`s physical abuse, sexual abuse, whatever it is, it is time to speak up and to change this nonsense.

(A portion of this transcript has been removed.)

Nancy on Facebook writes, "I was molested by a close family member at a young age, but my mother told me that I seduced him. That`s why he did it. How does a four or five-year-old turn on a grown man?"

Two things grow out of that. One is, are you kidding me? That`s - you know, that bizarre thinking? And that probably means that she herself had been sexually abused in order to have that kind of stinking thinking.

I`ve actually seen that used as a defense, people, these - the perpetrators would use that kind of crazy thinking. And, by the way, whenever you lay it at the foot of a victim, they`re - they believe it is their fault, so they happily take that on as theirs. It`s awful.

Nicole writes, "I`m a current Penn State student that is struggling with the implications that this situation has provided for my fellow students. I feel I am being unfairly judged by the world because of a crime I did not commit."

And, I must tell you, I think it`s Nicole, I feel - I`m sorry you feel that way, but I want you to know, certainly those of us here at HLN and I believe most of the country feel that the - the Penn State students deserve a tip of the hat, that you guys have responded to this in admirable ways. You quickly turned after you expressed your outrage and got into the solution.

I think it`s the Penn State students that are going to lead us out of this mess. So, as opposed to feeling bad, I`d like to say thank you for what you`ve done.

Bill writes, "You mentioned that a molester has to be motivated to get better. How on earth can a predator motivate himself to change for the better?"

Interesting question. As we`ve heard in the last segment, there are different kinds of perpetrators. Some feel and believe they`re doing something wrong. Some are concerned they`re going to hurt people and are motivated to change. Others are motivated to change by the consequences, in other words the legal system, or health problems.

They need to have those - those consequences brought down with the force of God, or they may do things again. That is the thing that often motivates them. But that`s the key conundrum, it`s how do you get them to make change? Once they`re in the program, they can.

Up next, a young student is verbally abused not by her classmates, but apparently, allegedly, by her teachers. This is a - a child who - you`re going to - you`re going to hear here unbelievable story after the break. So please stay with us.


MS. CHAFFINS (voice-over): Cheyanne, are you kidding me? Are you that damn dumb? You`re that dumb? Oh, my God. You are such a liar.




PINSKY (voice-over): How would you feel if your special needs child was berated and abused by trusted educators? An Ohio family says it happened to their little girl, and they caught it all on tape. I`m appalled and you will be, too, when you hear it. The father joins me live.

And later, a child casting assistant with a dark past as a child predator. Is sick love fantasy and kidnapping of the eight-year-old boy he molested? Did he reinvent himself after jail or was he a predator hiding in plain sight?


PINSKY (on-camera): Now, we have done quite a number of bullying episodes in the past, but tonight, we`re bring you one that is I don`t know if disturbing is a strong enough word. A girl`s desperate family did the only thing they thought they could to expose what they say happened to her at school. Take a look at this.


PINSKY (voice-over): At first, the Ohio family thought their daughter Cheyanne`s complaints of bullying were about other kids, but when they realized her alleged aggressors were teachers, they went to school administration. Officials called their daughter a liar. So, mom and dad took matters into their hands.

They sent Cheyanne`s to school with a hidden recording device. What it revealed is heart breaking. Seven hours of apparent verbal abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No wonder you don`t have any friends.

PINSKY: Belittling Cheyanne`s for her weight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cheyanne, don`t you want to do something to get rid of that belly?

PINSKY: Her intelligence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you that damn dumb? You are that damn dumb?

PINSKY: Her integrity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are such a liar.

PINSKY: Chipping away at every aspect of this girl`s self-esteem. Teacher`s aide, Kelly Chaffins was terminated. The teacher, Christie Wilt (ph), is on unpaid leave until the end of the year. The status hearing is next week.


PINSKY (on-camera): Now, the brave young girl`s father, Brion, is with us. Cheyanne`s attorneys, Brian Garvine and Dan Moriarski - Mordarski, I beg your pardon, are also here with us. Now, Brian, you are her father. What put the idea in your head to use a recording device?

BRION, CHEYANNE`S FATHER: Well, we kept going to the school district, and they kept telling us that our daughter was making up stories, making up stories. That`s all we heard. That`s all we got. She`s making up stories, taking parts of this story, parts of that story, making her own story. It wasn`t until Cheyanne started --

PINSKY: Why do you think they were so resistant to looking into this? I mean, the part of the story I`m trying to get my head around, trying to make sense of, why didn`t they just look into it.

BRION: That`s what we`re trying to figure out. The only thing we ever got every time I called the principal, he said he`d get back with me. Two hours later, three hours later, the teacher is calling me. They never would call me back

It was always the teacher calling me back and saying, OK, well, you know, Mr. Conroy came to me and said that you had these concerns, you know, let me explain. And that`s all you ever got from the teacher. She would always --

PINSKY: And what would the teacher say? I`m curious. What was their explanation for this?

BRION: Her explanation was Cheyanne was making up stories.

PINSKY: OK. So, just complete denial.

BRION: Right. Right.

PINSKY: OK. Now, in this recording, teachers aide Kelly Chaffins, I believe is the name, Chaffins` accuses Cheyanne of lying. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cheyanne, are you kidding me? Are you that damn dumb? You are that dumb? Oh my God, you are such a liar.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You told me you don`t know. It`s no wonder you don`t have any friends. No wonder nobody likes you because you lie, cheat.



PINSKY: Brion, let me just sort of flush out the story for our viewers, what is your daughter`s liability? I mean, can you tell us that? And by the way, if she`s making up stories, could that be part of the problems that the teachers are there to help support her through?

BRION: Right. I mean, these kids are in that room for a reason. Our kid wasn`t asked to be brought into this world like this, and that`s why they`re there. These teachers chose our children, our kids didn`t choose them.

PINSKY: I hope you don`t mind me asking. What are her disabilities? Do you mind telling us? I mean, was she -- because let`s be fair here. I mean, there are kids that are aggressive, and there are kids that are really difficult to deal with. Is she one of those kids or is she just, you know, a kid that got a couple of issues and is otherwise pretty pleasant to deal with?

BRION: No, Cheyanne has always been pleasant. We have never had an issue with her at school. She doesn`t have any behavior problems. Her teachers have always raved about the smile that she has. She`s always loved to go to school. She`s always been happy. She doesn`t give any problems at all. That`s why we couldn`t figure this out. She does nothing. She doesn`t even speak unless, she`s spoken to.

PINSKY: And so, she started coming home complaining that she didn`t want to go to school, and this was a marked change from her usual behavior, I imagine?

BRION: Right. She come home, and then, she`d say that she was sick. The final straw, she was in the bathroom and she was sticking her finger down her throat to throw up to try to get us to think that she was sick so she wouldn`t have to go to school. That was the final straw.

PINSKY: Now, HLN reached out -- we reached out to the Miami Trace School District and got no response to the allegation, but it`s been clear from the beginning school that administrators ,as you hear here, did not seem to believe the parents. In an e-mail last April, Superintendent Dan Robert said this about the matter.

Quote, "we found the young girl was lying. I carefully looked into the matter and found absolutely no truth of their accusations. It came to a point where I had to remind the man that his continued false accusations were bordering on slander and harassment."

Brion, I can just imagine how upset you were hearing that, but I want to actually to turn your attorneys now. What do you guys do with that? I mean, those of us reading, I mean, it`s almost like you cannot react to it.

BRIAN GARVINE, CHEYANNE`S ATTORNEY: No, that`s exactly right, doctor. In fact, we had reached out to the school district before filing suit. We sent them a detailed settlement demand that actually included that e-mail and a couple other attachments as well, and we had some specific excerpts from the tapes.

And we laid the entire case out for them, and they completely ignored it. We heard nothing from them in response to that.

PINSKY: Are those tapes admissible? Is that actually going to be something used in the suit?

DAN MORDARSKI, CHEYANNE`S ATTORNEY: Well, right now, Dr. Drew, the case has been settled. So, there`s not going to be a trial in this case, but we believe the recordings would have been admitted into evidence, and quite frankly, those tapes speak for themselves.

PINSKY: Yes, they do. And it makes me wonder, it confuses me, I got to tell you. I mean, sometimes, I`ve seen situations where like physicians in training and, you know, people that are unbelievable amounts of stress act in ways that reprehensible, frankly. They wouldn`t act if they had more support.

Are these teachers overworked? Is there a bigger problem here or are these bad teachers we`re talking about? Do you understand the question I`m asking? Sometimes, people behave in certain ways when they`re overwhelmed that they simply would not otherwise. And, is this an endemic issue of student to teacher ratio or something or just bad behavior by bad teachers?

GARVINE: I mean, my personal opinion in this case is bad behavior by bad teachers. I think there are six kids in this class. And so, you have a teacher and a teacher`s assistant. So, it`s certainly not a teacher ratio issue, and I don`t know how you could say they`re overworked.

I mean, these teachers know that these are special needs children, so they know what they`re getting. So, I don`t know how you say overworked, and I certainly don`t know how you do a student teacher ratio.

PINSKY: Right. You`ve answered my question. We`re not going to say that. So, Brion, how do you make sense of all this, dad, Brion.

BRION: It`s hard to make sense of it. I`m still trying to make sense of it, trying to figure out why we beat ourselves up every day, trying to figure out why they would do this, because she`s not a bad kid. She`s a very good kid, any of these kids, any special needs kids. They`re all special. And for this to happen is just outrageous.

PINSKY: Thank you, guys.

BRION: And in my opinion --

PINSKY: Oh, go ahead, Brion, go, finish.

BRION: This teacher, it`s all day long, it`s from the time they get off the bus until the time they leave, the whole seven hours, all day long, all four days we have, it`s all day long. It doesn`t stop. But it`s just the teachers are doing nothing. There`s no instruction. There`s no nothing in the classroom.

PINSKY: That`s awful. All right. You guys stick around.

Coming up, we`re going to talk about what`s next for teacher, Christie Wilt, and if they think she`ll have a job next year. Stay with us.


PINSKY: Tonight, we`re covering a heartbreaking story about a young special need girl allegedly badgered and verbally abused at her Ohio middle school. Cheyanne endured this harassment by her teachers as her father, Brion, would say, seven hours a day from the moment she arrived to moment she left.

He was savvy enough to wire Cheyanne to get the proof, and if you were listening out in the green room, and you felt that that was really a sort of brave act on his part.

HEATH EVANS, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Very much so, but this is what we need from our parents this day and age. I mean, we look at the PSU scandal. We look at maybe possibly the Syracuse scandal now. Ultimately, we need parents to believe their children. We need school superintendents to believe complaints that come to their desk and research them.

PINSKY: Well, Heath, this is why I brought you in here. You and I are going to keep talking about abuse and abuse survivorship, but I really believe we`re uncovering a bigger problem here, which is sort of the, I guess, insolence is the right word of some institutions, schools, scholastic administrators that somehow people have academic training think they know better than the rest of us. I mean, history is replete with intellectuals causing trouble.

EVANS: Right.

PINSKY: And I`m an intellectual myself. So, I don`t want to point the finger necessarily.


PINSKY: But I`m saying that I think we`re uncovering something here that we all, you know, the law of the land, the standards of care are the same for all of us for a reason. That`s what`s best. Nobody knows better.

EVANS: Right.

PINSKY: That`s what`s best.

EVANS: Well, and it comes down to just simple belief. I mean, we`ve got to go to the opposite end of the spectrum, because for so long, you know what, we kind of teeter, well, no, everyone is good. We need to believe the opposite of the spectrum and believe these kids when they come to our doorstep and say, this is wrong.

Listen, the opportunities were kids kind of fabricate stories. Yes, they exist, but most of the time, these kids are telling the truth, and we got to get to the bottom of it.

PINSKY: Or at least report it.


PINSKY: Reporting that has been ignored by the administrations. Why don`t you listen as both teacher, Christie Wilt, and the teacher`s aide, Kell Chaffins, badger Cheyanne about she and her parents.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cheyanne, don`t you want to do something to get rid of that belly?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, evidently, you don`t because you don`t do anything at home. You sit at home and watch TV all night, all weekend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what you could do?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take a walk. Play a sport.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why don`t you? You could. You live in the little neighborhood you walk around in, right? Ask your mom and dad to go for a walk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the weekends, they`re busy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doing what, watching TV?





PINSKY: Brion, it wasn`t that -- that little exchange wasn`t too bad until the word lazy cuts right through you which is abusive. What was it like to hear your child being talked to like that?

BRION: It was just absolutely terrible just -- because she`s by no means lazy, we`re by no means lazy. We do walk when it`s nice out. She goes outside. Cheyanne is not an outside person. She is not one to like to go outside and run around like our other kids. She likes to listen to her music and her iPod.

She`s more into that kind of stuff, and for these women -- because the teacher is not too small herself to be talking about my daughter being fat or overweight or lazy, it`s just sick.

PINSKY: But Brion, let`s be fair. Your daughter has a disability that may affect her ability to be active. These teachers are supposed to have techniques to influence children to enhance their sense, to motivate, and this recording, Cheyanne is told by a teacher, Christie Wilt, that she flunked a test before the teacher even looked at it. Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me what you have. You haven`t been paying attention to math class, have you? You know what, just keep it. You failed it. I know it. I don`t need your test to grade. You failed it.


PINSKY: Now, Brian, Attorney Brian, HLN talked to the superintendent of Miami Trace School today, and he said Ms. Wilt had not been let go. That she is quote she`s on quote "unpaid child care leave," unquote and will be until the end of the year, under child care leave. Now, what do you make of all this? What`s going to happen to those teachers?

GARVINE: Well, we`re shocked that they`re still employed, that Christie Wilt is still employed. We can`t begin to figure out why they are supporting her. It`s our understanding that there is a meeting November 22nd with respect to what her status is going to be, and I also understand that they moved that to the middle school because they`re expecting a large crowd.

So, hopefully, all this public pressure is going to cause the school district to do the right thing. We`re disappointed they haven`t done the right thing on their own.

PINSKY: Let me ask something. Yes, go ahead.

MORDARSKI: Yes. Just, you know, we live in a society where there`s rules, either written or unwritten. You know, people in our country can decide whether this is appropriate, whether this is appropriate conduct for a teacher. We also live in a country where we can tell our governmental leaders what we think about their role and what they do.

So, the public in Ohio and around the country can let Miami Trace School board know, let the superintendent know, let quite frankly, the governor in state of Ohio and the director of the Ohio Department of Education, let them know. If this is OK --

PINSKY: I get you. I think we will get some reaction like that, but let me flip this around on you and one quick question. We got about a minute left, which is I`ve been railing against administration. What if the administration in this situation is paralyzed by employer-employee laws?

They have liabilities as an employee where they can`t do the right thing. Do you think there`s anything like that going on here?

GARVINE: I mean, doctor, if you listen to these tapes, I don`t know how any decent person could possibly defend still employing this teacher. I mean --

PINSKY: But you understand what I`m asking. Wait, wait, guys. You understand what I`m asking, though. Does the employer, the administration have the risk of getting sued themselves for letting these teachers go without going through the due process which could take a long time?

MORDARSKI: I tell you what, I`ll defend that case, I`ll defend that case before I let students be with those teachers.

PINSKY: Well, hopefully, I hope in the meantime, the students are not with the teachers. I hope that`s in fact the case. One last recording, the teacher`s aide, Kelly Chaffins, again called Cheyanne a liar.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cheyanne, I`m going to give you a cookie, OK? No, I`m not. How did that feel? To be lied to?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. It`s not fun it, is it? Well, that`s how we feel everyday.


PINSKY: And Daniel and Attorney Brian, are we foregoing any criminal charges here?

GARVINE: We actually went to the prosecutor`s office, we didn`t go, but the Fayette County Children`s services which is where the school district is located, they went to the prosecutor`s office and they declined to press charges, which we can`t understand either.

PINSKY: It is hard, but at least you went to children`s services, which is more than I can say for many administrations we`ve been talking about here which they can -- something else I`m trying to get my head around.

Brian, Brion, and Daniel, thank you so much for joining us tonight. We will keep an eye on how this goes -- how the story unfolds. And Heath, thank you for joining me on this whole segment. I`m going to keep you around. We`re going to go back to talking about some of the outrageous things you and I have been addressing all week.

For more on this story now as you`ve seen here tonight, check out our website,

Next, a Hollywood casting assistant`s dark past revealed. How can a sex offender get away with working with children for several years and how he was finally caught?


PINSKY: So, how could this happen? A convicted sex offender working as a child casting assistant in Los Angeles. I wonder if we would not be really talking about this story if it weren`t for the Penn State situation. And yet, I see this stuff so often in my clinical practice. It is, again, guys it`s a cancer growing amongst us. It is common, and it can be dealt with, we have to stay on it.

Police say Jason James Murphy molested and kidnapped an eight-year-old boy in Seattle in 1996. He was released in 2005, moved out here to Los Angeles, later started working as a child casting assistant under the alias, changed his name, Jason James.

Murphy`s secret past was revealed this week after police began looking into whether he was following California sex offender requirements. Under California`s Megan laws, a sex offender whose victim was under 16 is prohibited from working with minors in unaccompanied setting, having supervisory and/or disciplinary power over children. They`re also required to notify authorities of any name change.

Looks like he broke all those rules, Heath. Heath Evans is an advocate for victims of childhood sexual abuse. So, what do we do with these stories? I`m having you up here every night to help me make sense of this. We`ve talked about your wife having been a survivor of this, and you and I know it`s a common problem. What do we do with this?

EVANS: Awareness, awareness, awareness. And that`s why I`m glad that you haven`t shied away from it, and we`re continuing to cover it, because ultimately, people need to know what to do when confronted with this, but this guy`s past is ridiculous. I mean, the people he worked for, they should have done much deeper identity checks of this guy`s life.

We`ve done it with baby-sitters, lawn maintenance guys, and everything else, to protect our girl. So, there`s a lot of people again at fault on this one.

PINSKY: Well, let`s talk about that. How do parents protect kids? I`ve said a couple of times and I follow your instincts, really look into things, report, even a snip of a suspicion to child protective services, to social services. It`s funny, we were looking into the Syracuse situation, I am curious what you have to say about this.


PINSKY: And apparently, there never requirement to notify the police, but it`s not clear they have a requirement to notify social services which I can`t understand. I`m going to look more into this. I mean, in Pennsylvania, they had a requirement to notify social services, but only people in authority had that requirement.

EVANS: Right.

PINSKY: And they did not. They handled it themselves, but in New York, I mean, we need some unified standard, don`t you think in this country, where we just call social services if there`s so much as a sniff.

EVANS: Well, you need national laws. And I`d love for our president to step up and really do something. Make it clear cut, where there is no diving around the letter of the law or intent of the law. The intent of the law is to protect our kids. So, let`s get it done somehow, some way.

PINSKY: Don`t you think it`s bizarre, people are like I don`t want to be a narc. I don`t want get authorities involved. What? That`s exactly what needs to happen. They`re here to protect.

EVANS: Well, and that`s the thing. I raise my kids every single day. Know when to speak up and speak the truth. But I also kind of get on them for tattle tailing times (ph), because sometimes, kids are smart enough to differentiate between stuff, but we assume there`s no right from wrong.

No one will ever convince me that Joe Paterno and the staff didn`t morally know they were doing something completely screwed up.

PINSKY: And by the way, we`re hear tonight that poor Joe Paterno has lung cancer. Now, I want to be the first -- I`m an internist by training. And so, when somebody says lung cancer, you need to know, that`s almost without exception a terminal condition.

EVANS: Yes, especially at his age.

PINSKY: Especially at his age. They said it was treatable, but they did not say it was curable. That is code, guys, for this is not going to be good. Now, I know the news broadcasters reporting, oh, it`s treatable, treatable, no, no. They would have said curable if it were curable.

Treatable means they may knock it down for awhile, but this is not going to go away. May be why he seemed not quite well lately, and who knows if people use that as a defense -- who knows?

Pete, thank you so much for joining us. I got to go. Thank you all for watching. It`s been an interesting night, and we`ll see you next time.