Return to Transcripts main page


New Victims Accuse Sandusky

Aired November 25, 2011 - 19:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, as the Penn State child rape scandal mushrooms, is this just the tip of the iceberg? Tonight, claims that new potential victims may be coming forward.

And do we now have proof of a cover-up? The mother of one victim claims she begged high-school officials to call cops. You won`t believe how she says they reacted.

Meantime, the biological mom of one of Jerry Sandusky`s adopted sons says her boy`s relationship with the alleged predator was a nightmare. We`ll examine her claims.

ISSUES starts now.











UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was indicted on some 40 counts of sexually abusing young boys, charges that span more than 15 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike McQueary in 2002 was a graduate assistant. Says he walks into the locker room, and he says he sees former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulting a 10-year-old boy.

JOE AMENDOLA, LAWYER FOR SANDUSKY: What`s going to come out in this case is that Jerry did take showers with kids.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s a child rapist. They should at least keep tabs on him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to support the victims and their families. We want to tell them we`re still here for them. That`s important to us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s so important to put the victim first. I think they`ve gotten really lost in all of this.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, head-spinning new developments in the Penn State child rape scandal, as cops say at least a dozen potential victims have now come forward. How many are out there?

Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City. And tonight, more evidence of what critics are calling a cover-up. A "New York Times" report claims these high-ranking officials, athletic director Tim Curley and the man in charge of campus police, Gary Schultz, actively tried to bury the molestation claims against Jerry Sandusky, despite being told in graphic detail that Sandusky allegedly raped a boy on campus.

Now "The Times" also says crucial travel and expense reports from Sandusky`s Second Mile charity from 2002 to 2003 have vanished, disappeared, gone. And that just happens to be the very same time period he`s accused of raping boys.

We are now learning that more victims are coming forward. They are enraged, reportedly, over Sandusky`s self-serving interview, and many are simply creeped out by his words. Listen for yourself.


BOB COSTAS, NBC`S "ROCK CENTER": Are you a pedophile?


COSTAS: Are you sexually attracted to young boys, to underage boys?

SANDUSKY: Am I sexually attracted to underage boys?


SANDUSKY: Sexually attracted? You know, I enjoy young people. I -- I love to be around them. I -- I -- but, no, I`m not sexually attracted to young boys.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Who has to pause? Who has to ask a question to be repeated before they answer when the question is "Are you sexually attracted to young boys?"

Did Sandusky`s spin backfire? Sara, you`re live on the ground at Penn State. What do you know about new victims coming forward?

SARA GANIM, REPORTER: This is the second day in a row where an attorney is coming forward and telling us that that interview on Monday night where Jerry Sandusky denied doing anything wrong, that that is backfiring. And this is how.

The second day in a row that attorneys are getting calls from potential victims, from people who have never told their story before, but are coming forward now because of two reasons. One, the case that`s unfolded in the last 14 days, and because specifically triggered by that Monday night interview.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And here is more of Jerry Sandusky giving NBC his version, his spin, of what happened. He`s accused of raping a young boy.


SANDUSKY: We were showering and horsing around, and he actually turned all the showers on and was actually sliding across the floor. And we were, as I recall, possibly, like snapping a towel in horseplay.



There`s an attorney now by the name of Andy Schuman who has come forward, saying this interview by Sandusky has prompted victims to speak out to him. He told "The Patriot-News," quote, "I spent about half the day in kitchens and living rooms, speaking with victims of Sandusky`s molestation and processing with them the effects of Jerry Sandusky being on the TV and Jerry Sandusky wrongdoing, and what I found was these folks are being re-traumatized."

Stacey Honowitz, we have no specific numbers. We know she`s charged with 40 counts of sexual abuse of boys. We know that eight are in the official record. There`s a grand jury. We know that -- we heard about a ninth.

Now cops are saying, oh, a dozen people, at least, have called them. And you have two lawyers saying that people are coming out of the woodwork. There`s no way to add it up, but if all those are different people, I would say that that -- that`s in the 20s now.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, Jane, this is not unusual. You know, lots of times when there`s pedophiles involved, they have several victims. And what happens is, when a case begins to unfold, other victims feel that there`s strength in numbers. They feel comfortable enough to come out now and talk about it.

Now, if they were enraged by his testimony or his comments that he made on the air, you know, the fact that he was denying it, we can all get a guarantee that he`s not going to confess on the air that he was sexually abusing these boys. But if that`s what it took for them to come forward, that`s all they need. It`s like a trigger point.

But it`s not unusual in these cases. Whenever you have cases involving one, two, three, four, five victims that other victims come forward. You`re going to see, this isn`t going to stop here. This can go on for months at a time. You could have up to 40, 50 victims. There`s no telling how many people were involved with Jerry Sandusky.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mow, Sandusky`s lawyer was just asked about Sandusky`s bizarre interview with Bob Costas, where he explains himself. Listen to what this lawyer said.


AMENDOLA: People said to me, how could you let him say he was in the shower with the kids? How could we not let him say that? He was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were they naked?

AMENDOLA: My understanding is they were naked after workouts. But you guys have to understand these showers are large shower rooms. They`re not the showers that you have at home in your house or apartment. And so it wasn`t a situation where he was within inches of the young boys involved. It was a situation where he was in a large locker room shower with them.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand, being an attorney for somebody who`s accused -- and I`m not trying to convict anyone -- but I find it disgusting and outrageous that somebody goes out of their way to try to rationalize, justify, minimize, and basically spin behavior that, forget about sexual assault, behavior that on its face is 100 percent inappropriate, Arnie Spanier.

ARNIE SPANIER, HOST, CBS RADIO: Inappropriate? Are you serious? Of course it`s inappropriate! You`re in the shower, horsing around, naked, with 10-year-old boys, and they`re sliding around and he`s saying this? Are we stupid? Are you serious?

I mean, the president, President Obama has to get involved. This is disgusting. A cover-up of the highest proportions! What are we doing, Jane? Somebody`s got to step in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re going to get to the cover-up in a second, the alleged cover-up. And boy, there is more and more evidence that leads you to ask, how many people knew that something very wrong was going on for a very long time?

Let`s go to the phone lines.

Diane, South Carolina, your question or thought, Diane?

CALLER: Hi, Jane. Thanks for taking my call.


CALLER: My question is, why were these children in the shower in the first place? They were not working out with the team, so why are they taking a shower with this man?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I can`t agree with you more. I think it`s all outrageous.

I want to go to Paul McLaughlin. You say you were sexually abused by a now-retired Penn State professor, and I don`t want to get into names. I know that`s a totally different story, a different case, but it did happen in the same university, allegedly. What is your reaction to how this is being handled by Penn State?

PAUL MCLAUGHLIN, ALLEGED SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIM: Well, Jane, thank you for having me here, and thank you for asking.

One of my concerns is that it seems to be a pattern with Penn State to kind of sweep it under the rug. It seems like their primary concern is to keep this from tarnishing the Penn State image, and they`re more concerned with image than they are for -- for the victims of this kind of abuse. You know, again, this is just my opinion, but, so far as the track record I`ve seen, that`s what it appears to be.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And I have to say that Penn State, knowing that you were going to be on, said that basically the charges against the man you accused were dismissed. That prevented the university from taking any other action, and that he had retired. I don`t want to get into that case, but there`s always an explanation for why somebody doesn`t act. The question is, is it a legitimate explanation?

This story is unfolding, and it`s metastasizing because Jerry Sandusky had so much access, so much access to children. But there`s a statement from Penn State regarding the case that involved the man you just heard from, Paul McLaughlin.

GRAPHIC: Statement from Penn State: "Ultimately the charges were dismissed."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There -- this is an absolute mind-boggling situation, because there are so many kids involved. There are so many kids involved in this case. And I`ve got to tell you that I think that we`re going to see more. I think we`re going to see more and more and more kids come forward.

We`re just getting started on the Penn State child sexual assault scandal.











UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re welcome!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re welcome!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re welcome!




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a new twist in the investigation.

MIKE GALANOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have breaking news once again, and it could be -- I say could be -- our worst fears realized. More potential victims, people who say they were victims as far back as the 1970s.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Breaking overnight, "The New York Times" reporting that Second Mile -- that`s Jerry Sandusky`s charity - - has missing files that could be key to this investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Second Mile Foundation was founded by Jerry Sandusky in 1977.

ROMANS: A chunk of travel and expense reports from the years 2000 to 2003 are missing.

Investigators want to know whether Sandusky used Second Mile perks to lure his victims.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s possible that because there`s been such a cover-up...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole thing just seems to have a bizarre connotation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We shudder to think, but there could be more victims coming forward.

GANIM: We`ve seen that there were a lot of missed opportunities in this case, and there might have been more.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was indicted on some 40 counts of sexually abusing young boys, charges that span more than 15 years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think it would be beyond the realm of possibility that there are other victims that exist here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Paterno is no longer the head football coach, effective immediately.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Those are guys who are overturning a news van. They were upset because their icon, their hero, Joe Paterno, the most famous person in Pennsylvania, was forced out in the midst of this Jerry Sandusky scandal. I wonder if they`re having second thoughts about their behavior as more and more information comes out.

Jerry Sandusky adopted six kids. One, Matt Sandusky, met Jerry through his Second Mile charity. Matt`s biological mom now says her son`s relationship with Jerry was a nightmare. Here`s that mother on "GMA."


DEBRA LONG, MATT SANDUSKY`S BIOLOGICAL MOTHER: My son was afraid of Jerry. If Jerry said don`t talk, Matt didn`t talk. I would sit back and I would watch when Jerry would show up, how excited Matt was. And as time went on, I would watch the same kid hide behind the bedroom door and say, "Mom, tell him I`m not home."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Matt, despite that, maintains that he was not sexually abused by Jerry Sandusky. But I`ve got to wonder, when you hear about that kind of reaction, Stacey Honowitz, hundreds of thousands of kids were involved in this organization. How are parents whose sons were exposed to Sandusky through this charity that he allegedly used as his personal hunting grounds to get young boys, how are they supposed to know if their sons were abused or not?

HONOWITZ: Well, I mean, now we`re talking at a later date. I mean, if they`re able to sit down and honestly ask them, did he ever touch you? Did he ever touch you inappropriately?

But you have to remember something, Jane. This subject matter is so difficult for people to talk about, and so difficult for parents, sometimes, to realize that this is a conversation they need to have very early on with their kids so that something like this doesn`t happen. But they have to be prepared to ask the difficult questions.

In pedophile -- in pedophilia, especially dealing with young boys, there`s a different kind of shame that takes over when it`s male-on-male child. There`s a feeling of, could there be homosexuality involved? There`s a feeling of shameness [SIC]: why didn`t I tell? What is he doing? There`s a feeling of trust. There`s so many different emotions that go into it, that you might not actually be able to bring it out of your child.

And that`s why education now is so important for parents to be on the lookout -- she thought this behavior was suspicious. She thought that maybe something was going on. And you often hear that with parents after there`s allegations of sexual abuse. A parent will come to me and say, you know, "I thought something was funny. He was spending so much time with my kid, paying so much attention, giving him gifts, showering him with things."

These are all things for parents to be aware of. An unnatural relationship with a child. Another person spending more time with your child than you actually are. People need to know...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And let`s be clear. This has absolutely nothing to do with anybody being gay. This was a heterosexual man involved in a marriage who was preying, as a pedophile, on young boys.

HONOWITZ: Right. But I`m saying...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know. I understand what you`re saying. I just want to clarify that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That this has nothing to do with being gay. This is a heterosexual man who was married, who is married, being accused of 40 counts of sexual assault on boys. Just so we clarify that.

Now, tonight, many see evidence of a possible cover-up. The mother of victim No. 1 says she went to her son`s high school and demanded -- demanded -- they call cops about what she said was her feeling that her son had been abused.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The principal had called me in tears, and she was crying. I could tell she was crying. They told me to get to the school right away.

My son had said some things about -- that there was a problem with Jerry, and he didn`t know -- that he didn`t really admit anything at that point, that it was -- he just said that he thought he needed to tell somebody or it would get worse, the principal.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Essentially, she says that the principal -- she said, "Call the cops," and the principal said, "No." Now, ultimately, cops became aware of this. But Arnie Spanier, do you see evidence of a cover-up?

SPANIER: It`s all in front of us, Jane! What are you asking me? I mean, are we blind? Sure, there`s a cover-up! The local police, the state police, it`s all over the place. It`s got to stop!



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe! We want Joe!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe! We want Joe!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe! We want Joe!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The outrage that we feel is nothing compared to the physical and psychological suffering that allegedly took place.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here is more of that astonishing interview accused child rapist Jerry Sandusky gave to NBC.


SANDUSKY: I could say that, you know, I have done some of those things. I have horsed around with kids. I -- I have showered after workouts. I have hugged them, and I have touched their leg, without intent of sexual contact. But -- so if you look at it that way, there are things that wouldn`t -- you know, would be accurate.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we are asking tonight, was there a cover-up?

Now, this is complicated. The first official allegation is 1994. But university -- Penn State University official Gary Schultz allegedly knew all about a 1998 case. Sandusky showered naked with a boy, and he admitted it. There was, like, a 100-page report that campus police did.

Then in 2002, Mike McQueary, who is now an assistant coach, says he told this guy, Gary Schultz -- that`s Mike McQueary -- he told Gary Schultz, the official, Penn State official, that he saw Schultz [SIC] -- that he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the Penn State locker room.

So Representative Mike Vereb, Pennsylvania state representative, do we have enough here officially to say there was a cover-up? When you have a Penn State official allegedly knowing about an event in 1998, of this guy showering naked with a boy and an event in 2002, where somebody tells him he saw Sandusky raping a boy?


It surely appears to me the bank vault that was broken open by a grand jury investigation, and what appears to be a -- certainly, a wide-scale cover-up of whatever proportions, no matter who was involved in it. Clearly, we have a lot of victims that are suffering.

This man is -- I watched his interview live the other evening. I mean, the only thing -- the only person who should be interviewing him is an intake officer at a prison. Sliding across bathrooms, touching kids` legs, it`s not -- it`s inexcusable.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why is this guy out? Why is this guy out?

VEREB: Well, you know...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, you know, we had a judge who was replaced, because it turns out that she did volunteer work. The judge who said this guy could go free without an ankle bracelet with no money down -- there she is, Judge Dutchcot -- volunteered at this association that he used as his personal hunting ground, allegedly. And also, apparently, got money from people associated with Second Mile. And so she`s removed.

But, apparently, the new judge, he has to wait until December 7 to put this guy behind bars. What?

VEREB: Well, you know, unfortunately, bail is set to have a person return to court. This guy is now sitting in his home, next door to the grounds of an elementary school and a playground.

The original judge -- I mean, I was very vocal here in Pennsylvania. There were campaign contribution connections, many volunteer connections with the judge that set the bail originally.

You know, I`ve got to tell you, I`m from the southeastern part of the state, not from out in Centre County...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Paterno is no longer the head football coach, effective immediately.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Penn State campus is waking up to a new era. Coach Joe Paterno is out as the head football coach.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The announcement was made, Joe Paterno is no longer the head coach at Penn State.





UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe. We want Joe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The outrage that we feel is nothing compared to the physical and psychological suffering that allegedly took place.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: My next guest, Kip Richeal, has known Jerry Sandusky, who is charged with 40 sex counts, and you`ve known him for more than 30 years. And you co-wrote a book with Sandusky. And it is, ironically, entitled "Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story".

Kip, first of all, when we heard that the name of this book was called "Touched", we all like just went, "what"? How did that happen? Did he come up with that name, "Touched"?

KIP RICHEAL, CO-AUTHOR OF JERRY SANDUSKY`S BOOK, "TOUCHED": Well, yes, it was his title. And when we were doing the book that was written in some of the notes and everything, and I did ask him. I kind of didn`t like it.

And not for this, because I had no idea about this, of course, but I`m saying I didn`t like that to begin with. I just didn`t understand. I thought there were a lot of other better names, even just calling it "The Jerry Sandusky Story" or whatever.

But I asked him and he said, well, the meaning by it is because of the many people that have touched my life over the years, from his days as a youth in the recreation center, the influence of his parents and family, the Penn State football family.


Let me -- I want to really get into this whole alleged pedophilia, and get your reaction to it. You wrote a book with him.

First of all, one former Second Mile participant, this is apparently where he found his alleged victims, this charity that he founded for at- risk, underprivileged youth. This young man, very courageously, just spoke about the time he spent with Jerry Sandusky with HLN`s Mike Galanos and said the guy was creepy. Listen to this.


MIKE GALANOS, HLN CORRESPONDENT: Did you ever say anything to anybody, like, "Hey, mom or dad, I like being a part of the football program, but I sure feel uncomfortable sometimes?

TROY CRAIG, SECOND MILE PARTICIPANT: I might have indicated that I was uncomfortable on a few occasions, but I was careful to play it down. Because I didn`t want to miss out on any opportunities that I knew I would if I did something to end that relationship.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Kip Richeal, you wrote a book with Jerry Sandusky, the man now accused of 40 sex counts. He was accused of using common grooming practices. Getting Eagles tickets for these kids, golf clubs for the boys, gym clothes, cash, then moving up to hair washing, back rubs, back cracking, and kissing before ultimately moving to sex. That`s the man we`re talking about there. That`s the suspect.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you ever see any of it? Anything that you --

RICHEAL: No, ma`am.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anything that made you question him?

RICHEAL: No, honestly, ma`am, I didn`t. My time with Jerry, most of the time was way before all of these alleged things occurred. And let me explain that because I was a student manager in the late `70s, early `80s. I graduated from school in `87. It was four years later that the idea of the book came about. And then I didn`t actually -- we didn`t really get it done until nine years later and any writing that I did on the book, it was -- I was doing the writing on my own, and I asked him to talk in the tape recorders, send me the tapes with the notes.


RICHEAL: So I never really wrote with him direct there. So I would never have the opportunity to even see this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can I ask you this -- how do you feel about this? What`s your reaction?

RICHEAL: I`m very -- well, obviously, reading further into all this, because I did read the papers, the grand jury papers, and it is very disturbing. And graphic, as you said. And it sickens me and makes me sad at the same time, because we were such good friends.

And if all of this, you know, comes out to be true and it`s convicted in court and what not, I would be very -- I would feel betrayed by a friend that this occurred. And my heart goes out to the families and the victims, like anybody else.

And knowing Jerry for as long as I did, and if this is true, to me, it`s just like he became a second personality. That`s how I kind of see it. Because, you know, he was such a nice person. And I think a lot of former players back in the days when I was there, would tell you the same thing.

He was very well-loved by players, managers. And they would all come with the same conclusion, they just couldn`t picture him being like, being this second person or I don`t know -- whatever. I`m just saying, they would say the same thing. Just, you can`t imagine that it would turn out to be the way it is.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beth Karas, correspondent, "In Session", why is he walking around out on bail? I mean we have people doing hard time for being caught with a tablespoon of crack cocaine. And this man who is accused of 40 counts of sexual assault on children is walking around a free man tonight. Why?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, that is true. That may not be the case after the preliminary hearing, once the judge hears the evidence. Granted a grand jury has heard evidence and have made recommendations of charges, and thus the attorney general filed charges, but this preliminary hearing will result -- assuming that Sandusky doesn`t waive his right to it because he could waive -- will result in some of these victims coming forward and testifying. That`s on December 7th.

A lot of what the grand jury heard, a judge is going to hear and a judge may feel differently about bail after that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we don`t know how many people are involved in this -- how many kids. I mean we had eight, nine, now some local news stations saying it could be as high as 17. We don`t have any independent confirmation, but the truth is, that when they do it once Mark Serrano, they do it over and over again.

You, Mark Serrano, are a survivor of child sexual abuse. What was your reaction to the rioting in support of Joe Paterno, the coach who worked so closely with this alleged pedophile for so many years?

MARK SERRANO, SEX ABUSE SURVIVOR ADVOCATE: Good evening, Jane. You know, I was upset about it, because these students are well-meaning, some of them. Some of them are riotous and they ought to be subject to criminal punishment for that, but they`re really misguided.

They shouldn`t be rallying in support of Coach Paterno. Coach Paterno was wrong. He had information about a serial sex offender; he didn`t provide it to the police. He was wrong, and he`s now paying the price for it, or is beginning to. And these students are very misguided. And frankly, I hold the university responsible for that.

You know, I`m in public relations and crisis communications and the university is completely mismanaging this. They should be guiding students to understand that the victims should be rallied for right now. They`re the ones who are suffering. They`re the ones who finally have an opportunity to be free from the shackles of silence that Coach Sandusky subjected them to years and years ago, and some of them maybe more recently.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Galanos, you are out there right on the scene. You`ve been there all day long. You have some of the students. Take it away.

GALANOS: Some of the students are putting these victims first and think of those 8-year-olds who were probably wide-eyed innocent kids who were invited to a football game by Jerry Sandusky. Next thing you know, allegedly they`re trying to fight them off in a shower.

These are two of the students, Eric and Ryan with me. Eric handed me this placard where -- "We`re Blue Saturday" -- it`s a blue out. Here`s a shirt as well, Jane, that says. "Stop child abuse, Blue out Nebraska".

Eric, tell me about the ribbon and just again the focus to put the victims first.

ERIC, STUDENT: Right. The blue is the color of child abuse awareness, and right now Prevent Child Abuse Pennsylvania is the organization that partnered with the local clothing and grocery store, McClenahan`s, and McClenahan`s is having a fund-raiser of sorts where they`re selling these T-shirts for $10 each and all the proceeds go directly to Prevent Child Abuse Pennsylvania.

GALANOS: Ryan, talk to me about when it got away from the victims? Because our hearts should be with those victims and what these kids went through years ago.

RYAN, STUDENT: It got away from the victims right at the beginning. I mean it was -- it went straight to Paterno, and everyone even kind of skipped through Sandusky and everyone else. It just kind went right to Paterno. And whether or not he should be kicked out and whether or not they should fire him now or fire him at the end of the season. Everyone has completely forgotten about the victims and forgot about the actual people who have been tormented (ph).

GALANOS: Ok. Jane, there you have it -- again, putting the victims first.

If you go to and read that grand jury report, read victim number five. It`s a short story but it`s an 8-year-old boy who`s thrilled to attend a game. Think of that; an innocent little 8-year-old who`s being invited to a game by this revered coach, Jerry Sandusky. Imagine when he probably went home and said, "Mom, I`m going to a Penn State game and I`m going to stand on the sideline." And then keep reading the story and that`s what brings it home.

Jane, back to you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s unbelievable. But I am very heartened to see and hear those students bringing the focus back, Mike, to the victims.

And I had a gut feeling, Mark Serrano, you are a survivor of child sex abuse, that that wasn`t all the students talking; that those were kids who weren`t thinking at all. But there are a lot of other kids, thankfully at Penn State who are, tonight coming forward and saying, we are thinking of the victims.

SERRANO: Yes, Jane, and my hats off to those guys and all the students on campus who do recognize that the victims really have to come first.

Look, Penn State University should embark on a major, broad campaign to reach these victims. My concern is that they`re going to be covering their own liability and avoiding liability, and they`re not going to reach these victims.

And I have to tell you, we don`t know how many victims are out there, but based on my experience, I assure you, there are countless men and even teenagers who are victims of Jerry Sandusky.

And I`ve got to tell you something else. This university is a co- conspirator. Officials in the university, some of whom have not been charged yet or have not resigned or have been fired, they are responsible. And I`ll bet you that before 2002, with the anal rape case in the shower that McQueary had witnessed, eye-witnessed, that this university had claims against Jerry --



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The allegations of rape and sexual abuse stretched as far back as 1994 when he met his first alleged victim, a 10-year-old boy, through his charity for troubled youth, The Second Mile.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a case about a sexual predator accused of using his position within the community and the university to prey on numerous young boys for more than a decade.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And at least three times, Sandusky`s alleged abuse was seen by or reported to employees at Penn State. In 1998 at this indoor practice facility, it`s alleged that Sandusky inappropriately touched an 11-year-old boy in the shower. The boy`s mother reported the incident to university police. That prompted an investigation that included listening in on phone call of the mother confronts Sandusky.

According to the grand jury report, Sandusky replied, "I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness. I know I won`t get it from you. I wish I were dead."

Sandusky also admitted the incident to the Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfare saying, "It was wrong". But despite that admission, no charges were filed and he was simply not to shower with children again.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Paterno is Penn State`s, but now is no longer the head football coach at this university.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want Joe. We want Joe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) so if anyone did right it`s Joe and it just makes me sick.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The second I heard it, tears were in my eyes. He`s done so much for our university.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coach Paterno will go down in history as one of the greatest men. He`s had such a dynamic impact on so many people and player`s lives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for everything.


JOE PATERNO, FORMER HEAD COACH, PENN STATE UNIVERSITY: One thing, thanks and pray a little bit for those victims.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable, tonight, what`s going on at Penn State. Now, Mike Galanos talked to a young man who when he was a kid was a Second Mile participant and says he had a very creepy experience with Jerry Sandusky, the man now charged with 40 sex crimes.


GALANOS: Thankfully the extent of it for you was just that.


GALANOS: A hand on a thigh on a drive or touchy-feely in certain situations.

CRAIG: Bear hugs, you know, just things that didn`t quite feel right that another man in my life, another adult man could do, could pull off without that sort of, you know, that discomfort that was being done for some other reason that I at the time couldn`t really fathom.


CRAIG: Then again, I didn`t understand that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Given that, I want to go back again to the video; this from YouTube, of these students marching. They`re marching in protest of Joe Paterno being fired.

Here`s what I want to know, Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst, I would like an investigation into whether there was some kind of cover-up because the facts are suspicious. In 1998, this started way back at least in 1998, perhaps earlier. But in 1998, this guy admitted to showering with an 11-year-old boy. He got caught naked. He gets away with a warning. Now, the next year in 1999, he`s awarded Assistant Coach of the Year and then for no apparent reason turns around and retires. Ok.

Mike Brooks, all these guys know each other. I`m looking at a bio of Sandusky. He`s bragging about spending 32 years at Penn State as an assistant to Joe Paterno. I mean let`s be real here. These people are friends. They`re buddies, they talk.

`98, he`s found naked and admits it with a boy and then in 1999, he suddenly retires. What do you think?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: 1998, let`s go back to 1998, Jane. You`re going to tell me that there wasn`t enough at that time to bring charges against this man being naked with a young boy? I`m not buying it. I`m not buying it.

My question is did the Penn State campus police, did they do a proper investigation? Did the district attorney`s office do a proper investigation? They decided not to bring charges against him at that time and did Joe Paterno know going back to 1998, what Sandusky was up to? I would say he probably did and wanted to keep it within the team, within the athletic department, within that school; didn`t want it getting out.

So I tell you, we hear there`s eight victims right now. I guarantee you, Jane, there`s more than eight victims over that time span.

Well, one local station is reporting it may be as high as 17. We have absolutely no independent confirmation of that, but we can tell you that that is a number that`s being floated out there by one local news station.

We`re going to go to the phone lines now. Rhonda in Tennessee, your question or thought, Rhonda.

RHONDA, TENNESSEE (via telephone): well, my thought is first of all, I feel so bad for the people who were the victims of this animal. I also - -

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s not an animal. Animals are not pedophiles, let`s leave them out of this, but go ahead Rhonda.

RHONDA: Ok, well I do have to agree with you on that and the way that the students are acting every one of them should have been arrested. But my thought is it`s all being put on Joe Paterno. Joe Paterno used his, quote, as they say in the military, his "chain of command" and went up with it.

The man lost the keys of the building or were taken away from him. How did Joe Paterno know or not know if there had not been some type of a secret deal with local police to where he was turning in the key and later stepped down? How was Joe Paterno to know or not know if this was --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you. Rhonda, great point.

Arnie Spanier, briefly. Penn State made $53 million in profit over its football team last year. Should we follow the money?

ARNIE SPANIER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No. How disgusting. How much money do you have to make before you say it`s ok, then rape little boys because you make a bunch of money. Everything should come down --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child abuse sex scandal that has rocked Penn State University --

CROWD: We want Joe. We want Joe. We want Joe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not about football. This is not about x`s and o`s. This is not about Nebraska. This is about young children that were violated. Their innocence was stolen. And it`s about them and the families that are forever impacted by what happened.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That man you`re looking at there now charged with 40 sex counts involving children. He`s accused of raping boys as young as 8.

It`s absolutely extraordinary. Thousands of Penn State students rioted when they learned that their legendary coach Joe Paterno had been fired.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is from YouTube, total hysteria; students flipping over a van.

Straight out to the national spokesman for All Pro Dad, Freddie Scott; thank you so much for joining us tonight, Freddie. You were a player at Penn State. You made the cover of "Sports Illustrated" -- there you are. What do you make of this behavior from the students?

FREDDIE SCOTT, PRESIDENT & FOUNDER, "UNLOCK THE CHAMPION: They`ve gotten their eye off the ball. As a former player, as someone that was a starter on Joe`s last undefeated team, this is totally something that does not represent anything that Coach Paterno instilled in me or the thousands of other NFL and college players that played under his program for years.

This is embarrassing. I`m outraged that they have lost the fact that the point of this whole thing is not football. It`s not even Joe. It`s about those kids. There`s a reason why there`s no names on the back of the jerseys. There`s a reason why there`s no logo on the helmet. It`s because it`s not about that. It`s about the team.

And those kids have no clue on the foundation that was laid before them. My heart goes out to every one of those kids and the families that have been devastated right now. And I hope to God, because, unfortunately, there`s so many dads out there that have abdicated their responsibility to those kids that have made those kids one of the 24 million in America today that are growing up without a dad in the home.

I hope a dad will pick up the phone and call their kids and find out if someone is doing something like that to their kids or a mom would talk to their son or daughter today because hopefully --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I agree with you.

SCOTT: -- we`ll be able to help somebody else.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Freddie, a lot of people are suspicious of the timing. The fact that the first allegation, which he actually admitted, to being naked in the shower with the boy was in 1998. He wins "Assistant Coach of the Year" in `99 and then Sandusky retires suddenly in `99. Do you think there should be an investigation into whether there was a cover up and a conspiracy?

SCOTT: Unfortunately, I don`t know what Joe knew and what the administration knows. We do know now -- hindsight is always 20/20 -- we know that Jerry Sandusky is alleged to have some major, major, major --