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New Info Emerges in Syracuse Abuse Scandal; Cain Campaign Collapsing?

Aired November 29, 2011 - 22:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. It's 10:00 here on the East Coast.

And we begin tonight with new word from Mike Lang, one of three accusers making sex abuse allegations against Bernie Fine, Syracuse University's fired associate men's basketball coach. He spoke to our Gary Tuchman, who joins us shortly.

Also tonight, "Keeping Them Honest," new revelations about what might have been done when the first accuser called police with his allegations, but wasn't done. It's a procedure followed in other big cities, but not in Syracuse. The accuser's name is Bobby Davis, a former S.U. bellboy who is now 39 years old.

He told ESPN the abuse started back in '84, when he was 12 years old, and continued for more than a decade. You will recall he waited until 2002 to phone Syracuse City police, who told him they couldn't pursue charges because the statute of limitations had expired.

The city's police chief admits they could have done a better job.


FRANK FOWLER, SYRACUSE POLICE CHIEF: In 2002, it appears as though we could have done more with this case. Let's just face it, right? And now, in 2011, I want to make sure that whatever it is that we're required to do by the victims -- or people making the allegations, I want to make sure that the proper thing is done.


COOPER: He says new procedures effective today will mean any such allegation will be logged into a computer database. But back then, they did next to nothing. Not only did they not pursue charges. They never started an investigation or even filed a report, no paperwork at all.

So we wanted to know, is that unusual?

The New York POLICE DEPARTMENT tells CNN's Susan Candiotti that its own sex crime investigators are required to document any and all interview with alleged sex abuse victims, even if the statute of limitations has expired.

Well, one reason is because sex abuser rarely stops at one victim. If the allegations against Bernie Fine are true -- and right now that is a very big if -- he hasn't even been charged with anything yet. But if the accusations are true, he was also abusing Zachary Tomaselli in 2002, allegedly in a Pittsburgh hotel room in January of that year.

Again, that's only an allegation. And we should point out that coach Fine denies all the allegations against him. So, the police say they could have done better. They are saying that now. The university, on the other hand, well, they're defending its role in the case.


NANCY CANTOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY CHANCELLOR: Let me tell you that we've been very straightforward and candid about this whole process. We've gone through our due diligence. New things came up and we felt that it was important both for Bernie Fine and for the university to move forward.


COOPER: That's University Chancellor Nancy Cantor this afternoon.

Back in 2005, the school conducted an internal investigation and concluded there was no wrongdoing on the part of coach Fine. But "Keeping Them Honest," Syracuse University has neither released the report to the public nor discussed it in any detail beyond the one page statement of the 17th.

The bottom line -- quote -- "If any evidence or corroboration of the allegations had surfaced, we would have terminated the associate coach and reported it to the police immediately."

"Keeping Them Honest," those sex abuse allegations even highly credible ones rarely come with corroboration, though in this case, coach Fine's wife admitted on tape in a phone conversation with Bobby Davis in 2002 that her husband -- quote -- "had issues."

And according to a transcript of the recording the "Syracuse Post Standard" Davis asked her, "you think I'm the only one he's ever done that to?" And she replied "no." Now, this is Laurie Fine talking to Bobby Davis in 2002.

We should point now Syracuse University did not have access to the tape when they conducted their internal investigation. But we have yet to hear from the university whether they spoke to Misses Fine in the course that investigation. In fact, we have no official idea who they talked to at all.

The report remains off limits to the public. And according to Mrs. Fine in that same taped conversation, we hear her say that her husband thinks he's above the law, which remains to be seen. Federal authorities are looking into Zach Tomaselli's allegations which involve crossing state lines which could be a federal crime. We have more on that angle shortly. But first Gary Tuchman, up in Syracuse tonight with more on the investigation and accuser number two -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, accuser number two is Bobby Davis' step-brother Mike Lang. Mike Lang is 45 years old. He is the older brother. He said he was a Syracuse University ball boy for 15 years, starting when he was in junior high school. He says he kept quiet about these allegations for many years because he felt helpless and was embarrassed. But now he's speaking out to authorities, and he talked to me today.


TUCHMAN: When you saw the Penn State story break, how did it make you feel?

MIKE LANG, BERNIE FINE ACCUSER: Well, I was sitting here in my house all alone. And my stomach just turned. And all I can think of is what me, and my little brother went through, and it's happening all over again.

TUCHMAN: And initially what did you think of Bernie Fine?

LANG: I thought he was a great guy. And, you know, he would bring me to every practice. He'd bring me to all the games. He brought me to the big east tournament. I thought he was a great guy.

TUCHMAN: You would go to Bernie Fine's house.

LANG: Every day.

TUCHMAN: And why would you go there? Would he invite you, ask you to go there?

LANG: It was like my home. I can go there any time I wanted to.

TUCHMAN: So you'd be at his house. Would his wife be home?

LANG: Sometimes. She'd be doing whatever she did and he'd be in there watching the games, making phone calls to recruits or -- it was like a home to me. It was like my home.

TUCHMAN: He'd invite you to his house and you would hang out there.

LANG: Right. I would go over there every day.

TUCHMAN: And most of the time, you would just watch TV or would you just study?

LANG: Watch TV, rake his lawn, do whatever I wanted to do. It was like my house, you know?

TUCHMAN: So you considered him like a fatherly figure?

LANG: Yes, absolutely.

TUCHMAN: But when did you realize that there was something wrong with what he was doing, what did he do to you?

LANG: He touched -- he kept touching me.

TUCHMAN: So where, though? Where were you touching?

LANG: In my leg and my penis.

TUCHMAN: And did you say something to him?

LANG: Yes. I said, Bernie, please stop this because I'm not that kind and I won't tolerate it. If you don't want me to come over here no more, I won't come over here. But if you keep doing it, I won't come over here. TUCHMAN: You were a kid and you knew this was wrong and here's this grown-up man doing this to you. When you said this to him, stop doing it, what did he say to you?

LANG: He did say nothing. He just moved his hand then wouldn't do it for that night.

TUCHMAN: Do you have any idea, Mike, how many times Bernie Fine touched you inappropriately?

LANG: At least 20, 30, 40. I mean, when do you stop counting?

TUCHMAN: Did you tell him to stop doing that on another occasion after he did it the first time?

LANG: Yes. It continued to happen. Then I told him, please don't do that no more, but you couldn't tell him no. It was hard to say anything because you think you're with a God, you know. Just hard to come out and say anything to anybody about it.

TUCHMAN: So you regarded Bernie Fine as this exalted figure.

LANG: Well, a father figure, you know? Yes, everybody did.

TUCHMAN: But later you introduced your brother to be a ball boy and your brother started making similar allegations, right?

LANG: When I got back from college, yes, that's what I heard.

TUCHMAN: And when your brother told you this, when your brother Bobby told you this, you must have thought to yourself -- do you tell him this had happen to you also?

LANG: Not really. Not at first I don't believe I did.

TUCHMAN: Were you embarrassed?

LANG: Yes, I was. I blamed it on myself because I'm the one that brought him along after me. And now I got all this guilt feeling to live with now, you know?

TUCHMAN: What do you hope happens?

LANG: I just hope that this -- no other kids get abused. And that's the main reason why I came out and said what I had to say and what happened to me is because I don't want this to happen to anybody else.


TUCHMAN: Mike Lang has two teenage sons. His younger son was the same age he was when he started as a ball boy. He tells us that he just told his son what he told us today just last week. The first time his son found out about this -- Anderson.

COOPER: And Syracuse had a big game tonight. You were in the dome for the beginning of the game. What was the atmosphere like there like?

TUCHMAN: Yes, it was very interesting, Anderson. Because a few days ago Syracuse had a game before Bernie Fine was fired. And they actually left an honorary seat on the bench for him. Well today, there was no honorary seat left for him. Jim Boeheim, the head coach, got huge applause but there was absolutely no mention whatsoever of Bernie Fine.

COOPER: Alright, Gary. Appreciate your reporting. Thanks.

Let's bring in our legal panel, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and Sunny Hostin out of "In Session" on our sister network truTV, both were former federal prosecutors. Sunny specialized in prosecuting sex crimes.

Jeff, does this strike you at all that Syracuse police did not create any reports after they were first alerted these allegations back in 2002?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Somewhat, but I have to say I'm less outraged perhaps than I should be about the conduct of the Syracuse police. Based on their report, they did not have a victim report. They had a friend of a victim who said something -- that Fine did this. But the victim did not come forward.

So I mean, that's not an absent of corroboration. That's an absence of evidence. And so, yes, they should have kept a record. But should they have prosecuted? Should they have proceeded with that state of evidence? I don't think they did anything wrong.

COOPER: Sunny?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I'm going to disagree with Jeff. The way I read it the victim certainly came forward later and called the detective contact. That he was given once he told that story, that detective said, you know, the statute of limitations has run so, there's nothing we can do unless you come forward with other witnesses and other victims.

He did give them the names of other people. They felt that the accusations didn't warrant an investigation, didn't warrant documentation. And I think they had enough at that point to, at the very least, Anderson, document what they were told. At the very least perhaps to follow up at Syracuse. At the very least to do something more than what they did. And I think now the chief of the Syracuse polices has acknowledged that, right?

He said now that I'm the chief of police, I'm changing the procedures. The procedures that were followed in this case, in my view, having prosecuted these kinds of cases were inadequate, woefully inadequate and inappropriate.

COOPER: And Jeff, if it's true in fact that there was, you know, later contact, do you agree that they should have -- that it makes sense to have a record on file?

TOOBIN: Yes, they should have. I mean, I wasn't clear. They had no witness where they could conceivably have prosecuted anything. I mean, there was nothing within the statute of limitations that Syracuse could have done. Certainly they could have done more to get the information to Syracuse. I mean, that's the thing that is so troubling is that even if you don't prosecute, you can do something to protect children. And that's what the real failure here was, not the failure to prosecute.

COOPER: The secret service is now the lead -- doing the lead investigation on this case.

HOSTIN: That's right.

COOPER: In the wake, I guess, of the third person who has come forward, Zach Tomaselli, because the possibility of crossing state lines.

HOSTIN: That's right. Apparently his abuse allegedly occurred in Pittsburgh. And so, the secret service taking the lead on the investigation tells me that the federal government is certainly looking at it. The U.S. attorney's office probably looking at it, as well. That tells me this has become a federal investigation, as it should be, if these allegations are true, if children were trafficked across state lines for sexual purposes, if abuse happens in more than one state.

COOPER: Right.

HOSTIN: That's a federal area.

COOPER: So Jeff, how did it change if it becomes a federal case?

TOOBIN: Well, Syracuse police department is a -- you know, it's a city, but it's a small city. And you need really specialized expertise to take a computer and look at see if there's evidence of trafficking of Kiddies' porn of e-mails that might suggest that there was some sort of activity going on. That's the kind of thing that only a -- usually. I mean, not something like the New York City police department. But you really need the feds to have that kind of expertise. And I think it only makes sense for them to be involved at this stage.

HOSTIN: And I would like to mention, under the federal statute, the statute of limitations would not have run. And that's really what's important. Because if you look at the federal guidelines, they have until the victim turns 25 or up to ten years after the alleged abuse, whichever one is longer. So, when you look at it like that, now the federal government has a second chance of going after Bernie Fine if this is in fact true.

COOPER: Is there a federal statute of limitation? I mean, does that affect the statute of limitations?

HOSTIN: There is a federal statute of limitations but it hasn't run yet if the allegations happened in 2002, 2003.

TOOBIN: I think there's a chance they haven't run yet.

HOSTIN: That's right.

TOOBIN: That's the thing. We don't know exactly when these alleged actions took place. If they were in the '80s even the federal statute has run. But if they were 2002, 2003 there's a chance for federal prosecution.

HOSTIN: That's right, that's right.

COOPER: And it does seems, Jeff, I mean, one of the tragedies here is that a number of people seem to have known about these allegations for year, the university, the police, ESPN, the local newspaper, but no one could or did put it together because they seem to have different pieces of the puzzle?

TOOBIN: I mean that's what's so maddening about this story. Is that, you know, if the cops had the ESPN tape or if -- this were individual pieces of very apparently incriminating evidence, but no one entity had enough information.

COOPER: What I also don't understand why the first accuser, if he had this tape which he apparently made, why not hand that over to police?

TOOBIN: Well, you know, I have to say the behavior of the accusers here is somewhat peculiar. It's very important to point out that being a victim of sexual abuse, if that's what happened, is extremely traumatizing, extremely embarrassing, it is not like reporting your car was broken into. It's something very difficult to come forward --

COOPER: And I guess the argument that he might say that he had already been told that the statute of limitations had expired so therefore, he felt the police weren't interested. That would be one argument.

TOOBIN: That would be the argument, but you would also hope that they'd be concerned about the possibility of future abuse in other victims and that they should have come forward. COOPER: We'll continue to watch. Sunny Hostin, Jeff Toobin, thanks very much.

Let us know what you think, we are on Facebook, on Google+. Add us to your circles. Follow us on Twitter @AndersonCooper. I will be tweeting tonight.

Up next, "Raw Politics": Herman Cain talking tonight, but is he saying anything about the affair allegations against him, allegations of a 13-year affair. We'll also hear from the accuser's attorney tonight. I spoke him just moments before we went to air.

Later, for the first time, a view from inside Syria's most dangerous city, Homs, through the eyes of a Western reporter who snuck in, was smuggled in, and witnessed what is increasingly an armed resistance against the government taking shape.

Let's also check in right now with Isha and see what she's following -- Isha.

ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Gary Giordano, the American held in Aruba, is a free man tonight. Giordano was arrested in connection with the disappearance of Robyn Gardner, but was never charged with a crime. Will police be able to solve the case, now that the prime suspect is headed back to the U.S.?

That and more when 360 continues.


COOPER: "Raw Politics" tonight, Herman Cain denies he's had an affair with an Atlanta woman but admitted he's reassessing his campaign in light of the allegations. Speaking tonight in Michigan, he made no mention of the story which he says is taking a toll on his family and he admits, his fund-raising. Whether it is hurting his poll number is still unclear.

He has, however, dropped out of first place since allegations of sexual harassment involving four accusers have come to light. The latest CNN/ORC poll taken before the affair allegations surfaced, has him at 17 percent behind Mitt Romney and front-runner Newt Gingrich.

In a moment we'll talk to Ed Buckley, the attorney for Ginger White who said she had the long-running affair with Cain. But first Tom Foreman at how he got to this point.


TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Tea Party favorite, Herman Cain was a little known long shot for most voters when he entered the race. A former head of Godfather's Pizza, a radio host and previously unsuccessful candidate.


FOREMAN: Then the debates began and suddenly his wit and simple approach to complex issues like reworking the tax code had everyone talking.


FOREMAN: In October, Cain's poll numbers rocketed past Perry, Gingrich, Paul, Bachmann, nearly overtaking Romney, but then came the stumbles on the occupy wall street movement.

CAIN: I don't have facts to back this up but I happen to believe the policy of the Obama administration.

FOREMAN: On Planned Parenthood.

BOB SCHIEFFER, HOST, "FACE THE NATION": You said Planned Parenthood was trying to put all these centers into the black communities because they wanted to kill black babies before they were born.

CAIN: Yes.

SCHIEFFER: You still stand by that?

CAIN: I still stand by that.

FOREMAN: On illegal immigration:

CAIN: We're going to have a fence. It's going to be 20-feet high. It's going to have barbed wire on the top. It is going to be electrocuted, electrified. And there's going to be a sign on the other side that said it will kill you.

FOREMAN: Later he said he was joking, but the controversies added up.

Among them, he said as president he would negotiate with terrorists then he backtracked. He said China was trying to develop nuclear weapons even though the Chinese have had them for decades. His campaign manager appeared in an ad smoking infuriating health advocates.

(on-camera): Amid all that comes the accusations of sexual harassment, infidelities, cover-ups involving women Cain allegedly knew or worked with for a long time.

GINGER WHITE, ALLEGES 13-YEAR AFFAIR WITH HERMAN CAIN: I was aware that he was married. And I was also aware that I was involved in a very inappropriate situation, relationship.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Did you know her for 13 years?

CAIN: Yes, but I did not have an affair.

FOREMAN (voice-over): So far he's repeatedly denied doing anything wrong.

CAIN: I have never acted inappropriately with anyone, period.

FOREMAN: But his numbers are plunging and with them perhaps his chances of ever taking the White House.

Tom foreman, CNN. Washington.


COOPER: Well again, Herman Cain denies the harassment allegations and the allegations he had a long-running affair with Ginger White. Shortly before air time in a "360" exclusive, I spoke with Ms. White's attorney, Edward Buckley.


COOPER: So, Mr. Buckley, Herman Cain sent a message to his supporters today. Here's what he had to say about your client. He said -- and I quote -- As you probably heard yesterday a troubled Atlanta businesswoman used national media outlets to promulgate a fabricated, unsubstantiated story about a 13-year affair with me. I'm writing to you today to assure you that this woman's story is completely false."

He also said that she made it clear she was abusing their friendship. What's your reaction to that or your client's reaction?

EDWARD BUCKLEY, ATTORNEY FOR GINGER WHITE: I think that's a mouthful, and I'm very surprised at how aggressive that is and very sorry that Mr. Cain has chosen to take that approach.

COOPER: Your client stands by her story?

BUCKLEY: She has consistently.

COOPER: Herman Cain's lawyer confirmed for us tonight that they have not ruled out a defamation suit against your client. Is that something you had considered before, is that something you take seriously?

BUCKLEY: I think that would be a very bad idea for a variety of reasons, and I think that -- well, I just think that that would be a very bad idea.

COOPER: His lawyer also says that there's no documentation out there that could prove or disprove this story, that it was all going to come down to he said, she said. Your client has spoken about trips, about flights, about dinners, which is all, I guess, verifiable information. Do you or do your client plan to release any more documentation to back up her claim?

BUCKLEY: We have some additional phone records, which we'll release. As far as tickets and that sort of thing go, those are the sorts of records that, you know, airlines might have. She did not retain any of those. And so she doesn't have that, no.

COOPER: But is there anything to -- any evidence that she had of souvenirs she collected or anything, photos that were taken over the course of 13 years? BUCKLEY: No, no photographs. And I think that that was, you know, a matter of choice that there weren't photographs. So no, she doesn't have anything like that.

COOPER: We saw the phone records of your client already released, allegedly showing text messaging between herself and Herman Cain which he hasn't denied. Does your client have any of those actual text messages?

BUCKLEY: She does have some of them.

COOPER: Would she consider releasing them? Would there be anything in those text messages that would be further documentation?

BUCKLEY: I think that's something that she's considered and neither ruled in nor ruled out at this point in time.

COOPER: How does she feel about how Herman Cain has responded to all this? And is there anything about his response that would lead her to want to now release whatever other information or messages she has?

BUCKLEY: I don't think that -- I think she's saddened by his response, but I don't think it was completely unexpected, and I think that she expected that she would be spoken of in a disparaging way, and she was disappointed in the way that he spoke about some of the other women who have -- who have made concerns known and so she expected the same.

And I don't think that her point of view is that she should respond tit for tat. I don't think that's a kind of person she is.

COOPER: Ed Buckley. Appreciate your time tonight. Thank you, sir.

BUCKLEY: Thank you, sir.


COOPER: Still ahead tonight: the Syrian government still not letting journalists into the country. But a few have managed to get inside, to sneaked inside including the BBC's Paul Wood who smuggled across the border from Lebanon with volunteers running guns to the opposition. We are going to talk to him about what he saw next.

Also ahead, tonight, "Crime & Punishment": an angry judge throws the book at Dr. Conrad Murray, saying he's dangerous and has no sense of remorse. But the question is, will he serve his full sentence? Our legal panel weighs in -- coming up.


COOPER: Tonight, an extraordinary look inside Syria, a look the regime there does not want you to see.

A U.N. report released just yesterday says Syrian forces have committed gross violations of human rights since March, when the protests against President Bashar al-Assad began, and began being quashed with violence.

The report is based on interviews with victims and witnesses. U.N. observers were not allowed into the country. The Syrian government has also kept reporters out.

But the BBC's Paul Wood just managed to get in. He was smuggled into Syria from Lebanon with volunteers running guns to the opposition. I'll speak to Paul in just a moment. But first a look at what he found.


PAUL WOOD, BBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Syria's border with Lebanon. We're traveling with men taking in guns to a growing insurgency. They enter Syria. The area's heavily mined and full of army patrols. A man was captured here just hours earlier.

Into Homs. The Syrian army is all around. They'll probably shoot if they spot us. The suburb of Balla Alla (ph). The people are hemmed in by the security forces. The fear is suffocating.


COOPER: Remarkable dangerous assignment. Paul Wood of the BBC joins me now from London.

You were actually there when a small number -- I believe it was five or six -- Syrian army soldiers, low-level army soldiers, actually did defect. What did they say about why they defected?

WOOD: I mean, it was a story we heard all the time from -- whenever we met free army people, they would say, "We were told by our officers we would be fighting terrorist groups. And then we came to Homs and found that we were firing on our own people."

More or less every single day we saw these defections. And it's not an easy thing for them to do. Typically you'd hear a lot of gunfire, and that would be people literally having to fight their way out of their bases. In Homs one evening we saw a firefight going on for about an hour with tracer arcing backwards and forwards over the buildings. This was five men who had made it out. And the sixth had not. He was shot trying to do that. So it's a very difficult thing for them to achieve. And, of course, once they do that, they're out with their weapons, and they become part of the armed opposition.

COOPER: What is it like being in Homs? I mean, I've seen it through cell-phone videos of people being killed by -- by Syrian security forces. It's been under siege. What's it like actually being there?

WOOD: It was difficult to get in, first of all. The city is ringed by checkpoints. And they have built a large berm with a ditch, which is supposed to stop the motor bikes that the opposition and the free army, as it calls itself, is using to run guns and medicines into Homs and bring the wounded out.

So first of all, you have to sneak in on foot. There's just a lot of random and unexplained gunfire. We were taking a tour of Balla Alla (ph) with some of the activists and passed inside of a checkpoint, and we heard automatic fire going over our heads.

Did a quick U-turn, took shelter behind a building, then a few minutes later a teenaged boy was rushed past in a car with very ugly looking wounds to his knee. So there's a feeling of constant siege, constant pressure, constant tension. A feeling that the army is going to come in at any moment and kick down the door.

And one of the very sad and upsetting things that happened while we were there was that a 6-year-old boy was shot dead by a sniper while he was playing on his doorstep.

Of course, that is a very narrow view of the Sunni protesters in one part of Homs. Homs is an ethnically-divided city. And I should say that, while we were coming out, state television was showing a Christian mother who said that her child, a 9-year-old, had been shot dead in similar circumstances.

To those people who remember the Balkan wars, it just felt a lot like Sarajevo, atmospherically, the kind of images we were getting. And that always in the background, that sectarian question hanging there rather malignantly and perhaps pointing the way to the -- what might happen in the future in Syria.

COOPER: Yes, a very troubling comparison. Paul Wood, again, thank you for being on. Just extraordinary work. Thank you.

We're going to check in now with some other stories. Isha is back with the "360 Bulletin" -- Isha.

ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Britain is allowing (ph) serious consequences after Iranian students stormed its embassy in Tehran. They caused extensive damage, according to Britain's foreign secretary, who blasted Iran for failing to protect the embassy, as international law requires. The students were part of a protest at Martin Uden, the ambassador of Britain's, home days after Iran's parliament voted to expel him.

In Egypt's Tahrir Square several people were hurt in nighttime clashes between protesters and vendors. At least a dozen gunshots were reported. The violence came on day two of historic parliamentary elections that will continue over the next several months.

Vice President Joe Biden is in Iraq. His surprise visit coming as the last American troops there get ready to depart by the end of the year.

And Anderson, the Casey Anthony trial was the No. 1 searched news story of 2011. That's according to Microsoft's search engine Bing. They released a top ten list. Osama bin Laden's death was No. 2, followed by Hurricane Irene.

Do you know the No. 1 most searched celebrity?

COOPER: No. Who?

SESAY: Pretend you care.

COOPER: Let me guess. Does the name begin with "K"?



SESAY: If I say the words "baby, baby, baby," will that give you a clue?

COOPER: Oh, Justin Bieber?

SESAY: There you go.

COOPER: Interesting.

SESAY: See that? Cultural surface (ph).

COOPER: Not the Kardashians.

All right, time for "The Shot." You never know when fame will find you. For Nicole Harris of El Paso, Texas, who was at the gym on a treadmill, this video is going viral on YouTube, so we're calling her the dancing queen. She started treadmill dancing after she hurt her knee and heard that walking sideways on the treadmill can help that.

Look at that.

SESAY: She's got some moves.

COOPER: I would find that very distracting running on the treadmill if she was doing that next to me. Look at -- she's...

SESAY: I find running on the treadmill fairly distressing anyway. So maybe that would be...

COOPER: That's kind of cool. But yes, I would definitely be distracted. I would also -- I would then be looking at her, and I'd fall off the treadmill which is always painful.

SESAY: And then you'd end up on "The RidicuList."

COOPER: Yes. Wouldn't be the first time.

SESAY: No it wouldn't.

COOPER: We'll check in with you a little bit later on.

Serious stuff ahead. Dr. Conrad Murray's sentence in the death of Michael Jackson. The judge threw the book at him, but it doesn't mean Murray's going to be in jail for long. Our legal panel weighs in on that: Mark Geragos; Marcia Clark, as well.

Also coming up, a major development in the case of Robyn Gardner, the American woman missing in Aruba, presumed dead. The only suspect in the case no longer in custody tonight. We'll tell you why he was let go, ahead.


COOPER: "Crime & Punishment" tonight, a judge threw the book at Dr. Conrad Murray today, sentencing him to four years in jail for the death of Michael Jackson, the maximum punishment.

Jackson, as you well know by now, hired Murray to be his personal physician as he prepared for that comeback concert. He trusted Murray with his life. Instead Murray violated the trust, became involved in a, quote, "cycle of horrible medicine." That's what Los Angeles County Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor told the courtroom today. He spent 30 minutes explaining why he was issuing the harshest sentence possible. Here's some of what he had to say.


JUDGE MICHAEL PASTOR, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT: The court has determined that the appropriate term is the high term of four years imprisonment. I do so because, once again, I find that Dr. Murray abandoned his patient.

Dr. Murray repeatedly lied, engaged in deceitful misconduct.

He has absolutely no sense of remorse. Absolutely no sense of fault. And is and remains dangerous.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here's the thing, though. Murray will likely serve less than half of his sentence. Let's talk about that with criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos and former deputy district attorney Marcia Clark, who's also the author of "Guilt by Association."

So, Marcia, your reaction, first of all, to today's sentencing?

MARCIA CLARK, FORMER DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, I have to say, Anderson, it's no surprise. We were all predicting that he would max out, Conrad Murray, at the top term of four years.

And also, because of the realignment sentencing laws now, he's not going to go to state prison, because he's not considered a violent felon under the laws that have now been enacted. So he's remanded to the custody of the sheriff, which means L.A. County jail and perhaps house arrest.

COOPER: Is that just?

CLARK: That's it. That's all that we can really do. And of course, don't forget: involuntary manslaughter only carries four years. And it always has been allowed to be given what we call halftime, good time work time credit of 50 percent.

So in that sense the sentence is exactly what the charge is. You can't ask for more than that. But in terms of the actual place he does the time, that's the new thing with our realignment laws, and that's because California's prisons are bursting at the seams.

COOPER: Right. Mark, you can hear the frustration in the judge's voice today. He was particularly angry about the recording that Dr. Murray made of Michael Jackson when he was barely conscious. Do you think, Dr. Murray -- I mean, do you think this was a fair ruling? Do you think he should have received the maximum sentence?

MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there's a bunch of questions in there. No. 1, did I expect it to be four years? Absolutely. Did I think it was a fair ruling? Given the fact -- I mean, there is this backdrop that he could have been charged with a -- what we've discussed before, Anderson, implied malice, second-degree murder, which -- where he would have faced a life sentence, so he got a break that way.

Would somebody else have received this sentence or been prosecuted to this extent? I don't think so. I think but for Michael Jackson, he wouldn't have had the resources that were expended.

Was this judge frustrated? I think that he actually was, and I think you can hear it. I think his voice betrayed the fact that he was disgusted by what happened here.

And so I'm with Marcia. I don't think that there was anybody who was around the court system who thought for a second that he was going to get a minute less than four years.

COOPER: Marcia, Conrad Murray's attorney said today that maybe his appearance on "The Today Show" and a documentary were not a very good idea. Do you think that's an understatement? I mean, do you think those appearances hurt him?

CLARK: Talk about an understatement, Anderson. Really, you think? Yes, horrible idea. Why would you do something like this? It really just kind of underlines his self-centeredness, his remorselessness, his sense of entitlement, his sense that he did nothing wrong. It underlines every bad thing you can imagine in terms of what a judge looks at at sentencing.

And one of the primary factors that a judge does look at in sentencing is acceptance liability, acceptance of responsibility and remorse. And what he did in doing the documentary and making these appearances and these denials of culpability, he shows he has no remorse at all. And any judge is going to be frustrated with that.

COOPER: So that's really interesting, Mark, that showing remorse really does -- can have an impact on sentencing?

GERAGOS: Yes, absolutely. And one of the things you always hear is there's no remorse or there is remorse. If somebody pleads early on, if somebody accepts responsibility early on, if somebody says, "Yes, I did it," what I call confess and avoid. That's the whole nature of the term confess and avoid, that basically, you've embraced it, you've said, "I did it."

That's something that is a huge factor under the rules of court, and it goes a long way with judges, and to some degree, it mollifies people who have been wronged, gives them -- I know the favorite word now in the victim's right movement is closure. Nobody ever gets closure if there's no remorse.

COOPER: Mark Geragos, Marcia Clark, I appreciate your perspectives tonight. Thank you.

Up next tonight, another case we've been following closely. The man arrested in connection with the disappearance of that American woman, Robyn Gardner in Aruba, he's a free man tonight. We'll tell you why.

And the winners are? We've got the latest on the Lotto drama in Connecticut. Are these guys the true winners of the state's biggest jackpot? That's ahead.


SESAY: Now, here's some other stories we're following in our "360 News & Business Bulletin."

Tonight, Syracuse's men's basketball coach, Jim Boeheim, gave his first post-game news conference since Associate Coach Bernie Fine was fired Sunday. He said he's not worried about his own job status. Police investigating child molestation accusations against his former assistant. When asked whether he regretted speaking out in support of Fine when allegations surfaced, here's what Boeheim said.


JIM BOEHEIM, SYRACUSE MEN'S BASKETBALL COACH: I supported a friend. That's what I thought I did. I'm proud that I did. I think if you've known somebody and worked with somebody for -- worked with them for 36 years, known them for 48 years, you went to school with them, I think you owe a debt of allegiance and gratitude for what he did for the program. And I -- and that's what my reaction was, and so be it.


SESAY: Gary Giordano, the U.S. man held in connection with the disappearance of a Maryland woman in Aruba, is now a free man. He's never been charged in the case, and the judge ruled he can no longer be kept in custody. As for the missing woman, Robyn Gardner, she was last seen in August when she went snorkeling with Giordano.

According to reports, Joran Van Der Sloot, the man long suspected of murdering American student Natalee Holloway in Aruba, has filed a lawsuit against authorities with the Chilean and Peruvian government and the father of the woman he's accused of killing in Lima. He's reportedly seeking $10 million, claiming his rights were violated when he was nabbed in Chile and hauled to jail in Peru.

A New Jersey man suspected in the death of his 2-year-old daughter was arrested today in San Diego by a fugitive task force. The FBI had issued a nationwide manhunt for Arthur Eugene Morgan III.

American Airlines' parent company has filed for bankruptcy reorganization. The airline posted a profit in only one quarter since 2007 and has lost nearly $5 billion over the same time period.

And there's Lotto drama in Connecticut. The day after three asset managers claimed the largest Powerball jackpot in the state's history, a P.R. executive acting on their behalf is denying there's a fourth winner who wanted to remain anonymous. The men knotted -- netted, I should say, a one point -- a one-time payout of $103.5 million after taxes and have set up a $1 million trust fund to help veterans' causes.

That's the latest.

And in tonight's "Connection," navigating the great indoors. Google Maps 6.0 for Android launched today. It has a new feature that lets you figure out where you are and to see the way you might want to go when you're inside buildings they've mapped.

Google has partnered with more than 25 major businesses that handle large crowds, including airports and giant retailers. The feature lets you switch between floor plans for different levels and, perhaps most important, it can locate bathrooms and ATMs -- Anderson.

COOPER: "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" ahead at 11 p.m. Let's check in with her. Erin, what's up?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right. Well, Erin, we're going to continue talking about the latest on Herman Cain, whether he's really going to be making a decision on getting out of the race in the next couple of days.

Alveda King, the niece of Martin Luther King, is our guest tonight. She's known Herman Cain for the past 11 years. She spoke with him today about what he's thinking, and she has a very specific reason for believing him in this latest case. She comes out front. Also, an amazing story of forgiveness and redemption.

The Oklahoma City bombing, which claimed hundreds of lives, a woman tonight who lost both of her grandchildren. She had full custody of them, Anderson. She's been corresponding for the past seven years with Terry Nichols, who is in jail, and she comes "OUTFRONT" and talks about why she chose to forgive him. That's coming up at top of the hour. Back to you.

COOPER: Interesting. Erin, thanks.

Coming up, a guy in Vermont makes T-shirts in his garage, and he gets threatened by a major fast food corporation. "The RidicuList" is next.


COOPER: Time now for "The RidicuList." And tonight we're adding a David and Goliath story we like to call Chick-Fil-A versus the T- shirt guy.

In this corner Chick-Fil-A, a fast-food corporation with more than 1,500 locations and annual sales totaling more than $3.5 billion. In this corner, Bo Muller-Moore, a guy in Vermont who makes T-shirts in his garage. Some of his T-shirts read "Eat More Kale," and Chick- Fil-A does not like that. No, sir, not one bit.

The company is threatening to shut the guy down, because it says that "Eat More Kale" is too close to its "Eat Mor Chikin" slogan and will confuse customers and dilute its brand.




COOPER: Couldn't have said it better myself, T-shirt guy.

Bo sells his hand-made T-shirts on his Web site. He also offers T-shirts emblazoned with words like "Cheese," "Compost" and "Free Range." Bo says it's all about eating healthy and supporting local farmers. And he tells New England cable news that Chick-Fil-A's argument doesn't make a whole lot of sense.


MULLER-MOORE: It's T-shirts and it's chicken sandwiches. It's apples to zebras.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you've never sold a chicken sandwich in your life?

MULLER-MOORE: I have not sold a chicken sandwich, no, and will not.


COOPER: Just for the record, this is a Chick-Fil-A chicken sandwich, and this is kale. Now, I don't know. You can make the call. I don't even know what kale is, frankly.

On his Web site Bo says he's one man with one squeegee, and that's how he likes it. On Chick-Fil-A's Web site, the company states its corporate purpose as such, quote: "To glorify God by being a faithful steward of all that is entrusted to us."

And it's true. The company has been entrusted with the care of a whole herd of cows with dubious spelling skills.

You notice at the end there, Chick-Fil-A's other slogan: "We didn't invent chicken, just the chicken sandwich." They invented the chicken sandwich? Really? I think maybe the Earl of Sandwich might have had a little something to say about that. Unfortunately, he's been deceased since the late 1700s. Maybe Chick-Fil-A can go after him, as well, and start using a new slogan, "I sue dead people."

In any event, thanks to Al Gore's invention, the Internet, there's an online petition in support of the T-shirt guy. It currently has about 10,000 signatures.

In the petition, T-shirt guy says this isn't the first time Chick-Fil-A has come after him. In 2006 he got a cease-and-desist letter from the company, demanding that he stop using the "Eat More Kale" logo and send the company all of his T-shirts. Back then he got his own lawyer, and the company backed off. And he says he's willing to do it again.


MULLER-MOORE: It's not going to be an easy fight, and it's not a done deal. And it's going to cost me a lot. Hopefully, it won't cost me my business.


COOPER: Keep fighting the good fight, T-shirt guy, because when it comes to epic battles involving esoteric trademark law, we'll always root for the man with just a squeegee and a dream.

That's it for us. Thanks for watching. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts next.