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Aruba Suspect Breaks His Silence; New Tip on Serial Killer?; Singer Misses Deadline to Return Son

Aired December 1, 2011 - 19:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Aruba murder suspect Gary Giordano`s speaking out. The lone suspect in the disappearance of this American beauty has been sprung from an Aruban jail and is back in the states. Now he`s taking to the airwaves to defend himself. How does he explain a slew of suspicious circumstances? You won`t believe some of his answers. Tonight, in a prime-time exclusive, I`ll ask his famous attorney, Jose Baez, the tough questions.

And where is troubled country music and "Celebrity Rehab" star Mindy McCready? And where has she been hiding her 5-year-old son? You won`t believe the singer`s explanation.

Plus, the Kardashian drama-rama hits a new high, or low. Kim Kardashian`s estranged groom claims fraud. Kris Humphries says he was duped by Kim. Does he feel he was used as a pawn for ratings? Or is the NBA star possibly going after Kim`s fortune?

Plus, is another famous couple in the Kardashian clan splitting up? We`re taking your calls.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Disturbing new developments tonight out of Aruba. The prime suspect in the disappearance of beautiful missing American woman Robyn Gardner waltzes free. I UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Giordano and Gardner went to Aruba together. He says that they went snorkeling and that she never came back to shore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Giordano told "Good Morning America`s" Robin Roberts that he had nothing to do with her disappearance.

GARY GIORDANO, SUSPECT IN DISAPPEARANCE OF ROBYN GARDNER: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I`m not going to sit here and answer something I`ve answered repeatedly.

RICHARD FORESTER, GARDNER`S BOYFRIEND: There`s just too many questions that are still unanswered. There`s all these rumors. There`s all this B.S. drama that`s going on, and it`s exactly that. It`s B.S. It has nothing to do with anything. You know, the fact is that he got out. Yes, he got out of prison. Well, Aruba dropped the ball there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Big breaking news tonight in the disappearance of missing American beauty Robyn Gardner, who disappeared on a Caribbean vacation. The prime suspect, having been sprung from an Aruban jail, jets back to American soil and then takes to the airwaves.

Good evening, everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City.

Tonight, I am joined by Gary Giordano`s very famous lawyer, the one and only Jose Baez. Jose, of course, we all know. He gained world fame for successfully defending Casey Anthony, the accused murderer. Now Jose has another extremely high-profile client.

Take a look at this dramatic new video. Suspect Gary Giordano in his first moments of freedom, leaving the airport after being released from jail in Aruba, where he was held by authorities, who are still hunting for 35-year-old Robyn Gardner, who they fear is dead.

You`ll remember Robyn mysteriously vanished while vacationing with Giordano in Aruba. There she is. Gary claims the two of them went snorkeling, and Robyn drifted out to sea, never to be seen again.

But this morning Gary told "GMA" that they were not swimming in a remote location. Oh, no.


GIORDANO: We were 100 yards from a scuba-diving store with tanks in the back. We were 100 yards from a scuba-diving store. Not a remote location, OK? We were in view of other people at Baby Beach.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jose Baez, great to have you here. And you know, I ask you the tough questions, but I`m going to start with an easy one.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand, OK, you were on "GMA" this morning. You`re here in New York City.

BAEZ: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And everywhere you went with Gary, you were followed today. Tell us about that?

BAEZ: Absolutely. Since we got off the plane in Miami, actually, where we were changing planes, people following -- paparazzi following us, taking our photographs. It just got a little silly. And all day today, coming -- going to lunch, coming back, taking photos not only of Gary, but also his children. It`s reached an all-time low, basically.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the whole world wants to know what happened to this beautiful American woman. I have to tell you, Jose, a lot of people don`t buy the whole idea that they went snorkeling. Her family says she doesn`t like to snorkel. She`s one of these girls who`s very concerned about her looks, her hair, her makeup, and she doesn`t snorkel.

BAEZ: Well, first of all, you know, I think we`ve all learned that she wasn`t extremely close to her family. That`s come out in a lot of the FBI reports that I have personally read.

Second of all, how you can guess what someone would do at a certain point in time -- I could say you would never do something, but then again, I`m just guessing. So...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Like, I would never skydive. And you`d be right about that. But continue on.

BAEZ: Well, I could never say, oh, you would never go swimming in a pool because you hate chlorine or something like that.


BAEZ: You know, I just -- everything that they have said in a negative way towards Gary is really supposition upon supposition, guess upon guess. And just because she hasn`t been recovered or found, they`ve just pointing the finger to a convenient person, which has been Gary.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen to this from "GMA." Robin Roberts asks Gary Giordano straight up, did you kill Robyn Gardner? Let`s check it out.


ROBIN ROBERTS, ABC`s "GOOD MORNING AMERICA": They want to know if you had anything to do...

GIORDANO: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. In my mind...

ROBERTS: Do you feel responsible at all? I mean, you went in the ocean and she...

GIORDANO: I feel as if a person that I cared about, OK. A companion. If I was traveling with you or you, you know, had disappeared on my watch, that -- it will weigh heavily on me for a very long time.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I have to say, Jose, to me the most disturbing thing about this whole thing is, when I look at Gary`s past, he has a tumultuous past with women. Two women have taken restraining orders out against him in the past. One woman said in court documents, quote, "We argued about his past sexual lifestyle as a swinger. He started to choke me with both hands, shoved his fingers down my throat. I was struggling and gagging." This is from pre-anything with Robyn Gardner. Nobody in the world knew who Gary or Robyn were. Some might say that in itself is suspicious.

BAEZ: I think plenty of people have had restraining orders taken out on them by scorned lovers. It sounds like that`s one right there, who`s says that she`s upset with him because for his swinger lifestyle. So this is a woman he`s involved with, and he`s out swinging. Sometimes women come out swinging. And hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

I think many people have gone through a situation where an ex has some unfavorable things to say about them. So you know, I -- that has absolutely nothing to do with Robyn and Gary. So to bring out the mud -- everyone has a past. Everybody`s done things that they`re not proud of. And to try and bring that up as some kind of reason why he would murder a friend of his, is really inappropriate nonsense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you mentioned mud. And I am simply quoting Aruban cops, Jose. They`ve been quoted as saying they found some extremely disturbing evidence during the investigation, they called beyond pornographic photos of Robyn on Gary`s camera. Listen to this from an Aruban official on NBC`s "Today Show."


MATT LAUER, CO-HOST, NBC`S "THE TODAY SHOW": There are reports this morning I`d like you to comment about, that photographs have been found on the digital camera belonging to Mr. Giordano that have been described by some as beyond pornographic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can admit the camera has been confiscated and is looked at presently by the police to see what`s on it and whether or not it has bearing on our investigation. While you`ll understand that I`m not in a position to comment upon what`s on the camera, what kind of pictures those are.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Reported photos, are they -- do they exist?

BAEZ: There are photos that were taken. I`ve seen the photos. To use the term "beyond pornographic," I don`t know what that means. That`s like saying, "I can`t describe pornography, I just know it when I see it."

But one thing I can tell you is that this, whatever photographs he`s referring to are photographs between two consenting adults. So what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom is their business, and really has nothing to do with this, except scandalizing the case and trying to draw -- cast more aspersions upon Gary and his lifestyle. He was a single man, and Robyn was single. They chose to do what they did behind closed doors. It really has no relevance to anything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I will say, not to get too pornographic in describing these photos, that a reporter in Aruba claims that they were really tight shots of private parts.

BAEZ: Again, I don`t know what that has to do with Robyn, her disappearance, or what happened. That was obviously beforehand. They were consenting -- you could tell they`re consenting photographs, and I think even the Aruban authorities have admitted that they are both -- that they appear to be consensual. So it has absolutely no bearing on this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, some might say that`s a very volatile situation and that it could lead to arguments, a lover`s spat, that kind of thing. But let me ask you this, just straight up...

BAEZ: I can tell you, absolutely not.


BAEZ: I can tell you, absolutely not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There was no fighting?

BAEZ: These were things that this couple did. And they did not only with each other, with other individuals. There was a lot throughout this investigation that was focused on their lifestyle. And really had nothing to do with what occurred on the beach that day. But, you know, it makes for juicy tabloids and speculation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re saying he is a swinger?

BAEZ: I`m saying Gary has a different lifestyle than perhaps you and I.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Could some describe that as swinging?

BAEZ: Some can describe it however they choose. I don`t think it`s my business -- I don`t think it`s my place to talk about what he does privately.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let me ask you this way.

BAEZ: I just don`t -- I don`t feel comfortable talking about those kind of things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ve had her boyfriend on, Richard Forester. He says that she told him that she was going to visit her parents in Orlando and that she secretly went with Gary to Aruba. So did they have a secret sexual relationship?

BAEZ: No, no, no. Not at all. And apparently what -- her relationship with Mr. Forester, based on the reports that I`ve read, he wasn`t the only person that she was dating. She was dating numerous other individuals. In fact, the night before she left to Aruba, she was with another individual.

So, you know, maybe she didn`t feel comfortable telling Richard where she was going and who she was going with. That has nothing to do with Gary. So, you know, they had a casual relationship, but they were not exclusive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to say, this has been a very, very fascinating interview, and it`s always great to talk to you, Jose.

BAEZ: It`s also great to talk to you. I hate to talk about this type of topic, but, other than that, it`s always great to be around.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, thank you for coming on. And as this progresses, I hope you come back.

BAEZ: I certainly will.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So what do you think about Gary Giordano and the interview he did this morning and what we`ve been talking about with Jose? Do you think Gary`s telling the truth? We`re taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gary, are you going to New York?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gary, what are you in New York for?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you doing here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gary, do you want to say anything to Robyn`s family?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That American suspected in the disappearance of his traveling companion in Aruba is a free man today. Gary Giordano was released from jail last night.

FORESTER: Certainly, if Robyn was still alive, she would have turned up by now. She would have presented herself, and Gary wouldn`t be going through this.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Prime suspect in the case of beautiful missing American woman Robyn Gardner in Aruba, he`s back in the United States. Gary Giordano telling his side of the story to "GMA." Check it out.


ROBERTS: The question on everyone`s mind, Gary, and you know this, they want to know if you had anything to do...

GIORDANO: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. In my mind...

ROBERTS: Do you feel responsible at all? I mean, you went in the ocean and she...

GIORDANO: I feel as if a person that I cared about, OK. A companion. If I was traveling with you or you, you know, had disappeared on my watch, that -- it will weigh heavily on me for a very long time.

What you don`t know about Aruba is Aruba has two main sources of income. And it`s not tourism. It`s cocaine and human trafficking.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robyn Gardner disappeared almost four months ago while allegedly snorkeling with Giordano.

Now, I just spoke with Jose Baez, Giordano`s attorney, and asked him some tough questions. Straight out to investigative reporter Jon Lieberman. Jon, what is your take on what Giordano`s saying, what Jose Baez is saying?

JON LIEBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, let me tell you, first of all, thoughts and prayers obviously with Robyn and her family. Just a horrible case. But, look, I`m afraid that she`s never going to get justice, because I`ve been covering crime for a long time, been inside investigations. This case is a dream for Jose Baez, your last guest. I mean, you have no body; you have no motive; you have no direct evidence of a crime.

And as you know very well, Jane, there is such a huge difference between what investigators think happened and what they can prove in a court of law happened. And I really think they`re up against it here, without more direct evidence of exactly what happened, and for me, that scares me for this family ever finding justice.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Shades of Natalee Holloway, another beautiful American woman who disappears on the very same island, last seen with a man who has a questionable past. And she`s not found either. And he hasn`t been charged in her death. It`s a horrifying parallel.

I want to go out to Carrie Emerson. Carrie Emerson, you have an interesting story vis-a-vis Gary Giordano. You claim that he propositioned you and your teenage daughter at the same time? Tell us about that very briefly, and then I want to get your reaction to what you heard Jose say.

CARRIE EMERSON, KNOWS GIORDANO (via phone): Yes, he had asked us -- she was a model at the time, and he saw her Web site and he had e-mailed us, asking, inquiring if she`d be interested in a modeling job. And then he called us, and after he called us, I answered the phone, and acting like I was her. And everybody knows the story. I told him that she was not interested in going after I told him that, you know, we weren`t interested in that type of a, you know, mother/daughter...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In that type, do you mean like a three-way, or what was his suggestion?

EMERSON: Yes, yes. He had actually asked for -- he wanted her first, to sleep with him, and then when he started saying things, you know, he would take care of us financially and everything, if both of us would go.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Both of -- was it a sexual proposition?

EMERSON: Yes! Oh, yes. He was very...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What exactly did he want?

EMERSON: He wanted to sleep with both me and my daughter, and he would take care of us financially if we would go with him and do that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you heard me ask Jose Baez about the quote/unquote "photos" that have been reportedly described as beyond pornographic. Now, Jose did not deny that there were photos. He said, "Yes, I`ve seen the photos. I wouldn`t necessarily describe them as beyond pornographic, but it`s two consenting adults."

How do you feel about hearing that in the context of this was done just before she disappears?

EMERSON: Well, I mean, that`s not my cup of tea. Some people do that type of thing, and if she -- you know, if he had offered her the type of money that he had offered my daughter and she need the money, I could totally see her doing it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What kind of money do you claim you were offered?

EMERSON: Oh, he had offered us five grand.


EMERSON: Yes, $5,000.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Joey Jackson, you`re listening to all of this. We`re hearing about sex talk now. We know he has a tumultuous history with women, two restraining orders previous women have gotten against him and some pretty shocking claims. Now we`re hearing about these photos, which some have described as beyond pornographic. Jose Baez says, "Oh, they were consensual." But they were taken before she disappeared.

JOEY JACKSON, ATTORNEY: Indeed, they were. But a few things are important here, Jane. The first thing is that governments are generally not in the business of releasing people after four months, right, if they have hard evidence as to their culpability in something. So we could go on to the proposition that they don`t in this case.

The second thing, Jane, is that because someone may have a checkered past does not make them, you know, guilty for an instant offense. Many people have pasts and that certainly doesn`t mean -- and in this case, because he has an alternative lifestyle or he may have a relationship or relationships that we find, you know, discomforting or not our cup of tea, it doesn`t make him a murderer.

And so I think that, based upon all those facts and circumstances, while he may be a person that we may not want to associate with, it certainly doesn`t make him guilty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, boy. I`m thinking what Jon Lieberman said is right. Could this case never get solved? More in a second.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re embarrassing. You`re embarrassing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s Gary doing in New York?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gary Giordano, the prime suspect in the disappearance of Robyn Gardner, getting out of an Aruban jail, back in the United States, hitting the airwaves. This morning on "GMA," Gary Giordano was asked why he was already dry in that surveillance video where he`s purportedly looking for help after Robyn vanishes. Here`s his answer.


ROBERTS: You know, you`re casually just knocking on doors. It doesn`t seem like you`ve been in the ocean and completely -- you`re dry there. How do you explain your...

GIORDANO: That`s totally incorrect. That`s totally incorrect. You can see I`m dry there? How can you tell I`m dry there? There`s over 50 pictures of me after this film. There are pictures of me when they all came down. I`m wet. OK? I`m wet.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s another wrinkle: Gary wears a toupee, OK. He`s got a toupee on, it would seem, in this video. Now, here is what Gary might look like without hair on, OK? Our graphics department whipped that up. So I wonder why you would go snorkeling with your toupee on. Wouldn`t it fall off? Or would he go somewhere and get his toupee again before looking for help? Raises a lot of questions anyway.

Let`s go to the phone lines. They`re lighting up. Melissa, Oklahoma, your question or thought, Melissa?

CALLER: Hello?


CALLER: Hi. Love you, Jane.


CALLER: My first question is, if they do find the body or parts of the body, can he be extradited back to Aruba?


CALLER: And then the second one is...


CALLER: ... do you think that him having an affiliation with Jose is making him look even more suspicious to the crime?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, say what you want. Jose Baez is a good lawyer. He won a case that many said was impossible to win. So I don`t think we should blame the messenger or the attorney there. Everybody -- this is part of our criminal justice system -- is entitled to legal representation.

But Jon Lieberman, what about this extradition? What if they get more evidence? What then?

LIEBERMAN: Well, if they get no evidence, then clearly he`s not going to get extradited. But Aruban authorities are still actively investigating this, trying to get enough evidence so that they can get him extradited. And the FBI has said, "Absolutely, you show us evidence, we are happy to extradite."

And they say that he`s still the prime suspect. Late today, they even issued another statement, Aruban authorities, saying Mr. Giordano is still the prime suspect, and it is still an active investigation. But without direct evidence, he`s already cleared that first big hurdle, which is, he`s back in the U.S., and that was the first big hurdle for he and his legal team.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, we`re all over this on So check it out for all the details. They`re really head-spinning.

Now, let`s take a look at another look at Gary Giordano on "GMA" and some of his statements during the interview. Check it out.


GIORDANO: That`s totally incorrect. You can see I`m dry there? How can you tell I`m dry there?

I`ve answered that question 50, 60 times. I`m not prepared at this point to go from that moment of that day to the end of the day. I`m just not going to do that. I`ll answer specific questions you have, but I`m not going to sit here and answer something I`ve answered repeatedly. I`ll just interview myself, if you don`t mind, OK?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joey, quickly, it seems like he has a temper.

JACKSON: He certainly does. But listen, he`s been vilified, and he has a point of view, Jane. And as a result of that, he wants to come, and he wants to state his piece. He has a business. He`s got three children. He has a reputation, and as a result of that, he wants to be heard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Got to leave it right there.

Up next, where is country star...



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just stood there staring at me, yelling, "Help me, help me."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think she was the victim of a serial killer?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was targeting a specific group of women from a specific Web site.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there are any more bodies out there, we want to find them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her last phone call was 23 minutes to 911.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was heard that, you know, "Get away from me. Get away from me." She was running and knocking on neighbors doors and --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Screaming, "He`s trying to kill me."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, stunning new developments in that serial killer dumping bodies on Long Island, right outside of New York City, where we are right now. This serial killer is loose, amongst us as we speak. Ok. What you`re looking at is only a couple of blocks away from where I`m at now, New York City`s famous Times Square. That is precisely where police say he was last spotted, where he made a phone call and taunted the sister of a woman that he viciously murdered.


LYNN BARTHELEMY, VICTIM`S MOTHER: At that point, it was five days when the first call came in. And you know, the caller ID, Melissa and she answers and she`s all excited, and there`s a guy on the other end. We didn`t know what he did to her, if she was still alive. He wouldn`t say if he wanted money.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, just yesterday, cops announce that they now believe that this sadistic serial killer single-handedly, alone, by himself, murdered eight women, a man and a little girl. All victims believed to be somehow linked to the sex trade.

Cops said that the killer was not responsible for this woman, missing 24-year-old prostitute Shannon Gilbert; but now a change of tune. They say they have a new tip on Gilbert.

Joining me now, investigative reporter, Jon Leiberman; are cops doing a 180 here? Could this mystery serial killer actually have also killed Shannon Gilbert?

JON LEIBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, yes, what`s happened here, Jane, is this is such a complex case. Keep in mind, only five of the ten victims have been even identified. Now they`ve gotten this new lead in that apparently has tied Shannon Gilbert geographically to the same sort of area.

So they`re going to begin a search in the next couple of days, I`m told, for Shannon. Now, you`ll remember that this case didn`t start having to do -- it started with them looking for Shannon, and then they actually stumbled upon these ten sets of human remains, which now they believe is linked -- the prevailing theory, at least -- to one serial killer. Mainly because of the way the dismemberment was done, they were all tied to the sex trade. Obviously, geographically, they were all found in the same area.

So they are operating under the theory -- a theory that not everybody within the department agrees with -- but the theory that there`s one serial killer. Now you have Shannon and police with this new tip, which is going to the lead them to actively search in the next couple of days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And Judge (ph), Shannon Gilbert vanished over a year and a half ago. She was allegedly in Long Island, meeting a client, a john she met on Craigslist.

Listen to this witness who saw her running to his home, screaming, "Help me, help me, help me," at 4:30 in the morning.


GUS COLLETTI, WITNESS: I haven`t slept in two nights. I could have saved that girl if I would have known something was going to happen. I could have kept her from getting out of here. That weighs heavily on your mind.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out now to Lorraine Ela, the mother of one of the murdered women, Megan Waterman. Lorraine, what I don`t get is that Shannon has always disappeared right near from where these bodies were later uncovered. That`s what led them to these bodies. Why do you think that suddenly they say there`s a new tip that`s leading them to search the same area for Shannon?

LORRAINE ELA, MOTHER OF VICTIM MEGAN WATERMAN (via telephone): I`m really not sure about, in all actualities. I never knew that Shannon`s case was actually closed. I thought it was still open. I am relieved that they`re actually going to go back to Gilroy Beach and search for Shannon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you like the way police have handled this whole investigation, very briefly?

ELA: No. I`m not pleased with the way they`ve done it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So do you feel that if the women hadn`t been connected to the sex trade, they would have done it differently?

ELA: Most definitely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lorraine, we`re going to stay on top of this story. We want to find out what -- who this person is. There is a serial killer in our midst. And we`ve got to find him. Thank you so much.

Now, moving on to another bizarre story.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A bizarre and new chapter in the troubled life of Mindy McCready.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Country music star, Mindy McCready, is embroiled in a bitter custody battle this morning that could land her in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After a surprise visit to their home yesterday by Florida`s Department of Children and Family, the boy was nowhere to be found.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mindy McCready could be facing jail time if she doesn`t do back to Florida with her 5-year-old son today.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: She, legally, if she`s defying this court, is clearly in the wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The singer`s publicist says she`s pregnant with twins.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mindy McCready has made headlines for her wild ways, with drug and DUI arrests.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deputies say McCready smelled like alcohol, was belligerent, and unruly.

TOOBIN: Obviously, it`s a family mess.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Has troubled country star Mindy McCready hit a new crisis point? Just a little while ago, she missed a court-ordered deadline to return her 5-year-old son to his home in Florida; little Zander now officially a missing person.

Four years ago, Mindy lost custody of her son, and he went to live with Mindy`s mom, his grandma. Mindy claims she took her son to her home in Nashville where he`s safe. She says she can`t bring him back right now because, are you sitting down, she`s very pregnant with twins. We spoke with the country music star yesterday morning, she assured us, quote, "Zander is fine, he`s with me and he`s not missing." We can only hope she`s sober. Drug addiction, DUI, sex scandal, suicide attempts; all have landed her in the tabloid.

But before all the scandals, she was a rising star. Here`s her big hit, "Guys Do It All the Time" from B&A records.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re joined by a very special guest tonight, Mindy`s ex, the father of missing Zander, Billy McKnight, a country singer in his own right. Billy, tell us what you know about what happened to your son and why.

BILLY MCKNIGHT, FATHER OF MINDY MCREADY`S SON: Well, I don`t know why, except for the fact that maybe she`s not getting her way with what the judge is ruling. I did talk to him about an hour ago, and he sounds ok.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The boy? You talked to your son?

MCKNIGHT: I did talk to him, yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And do you have any idea where he is?

MCKNIGHT: I`m not sure where he is. I just -- I know he sounded ok and that`s my main concern, is that he gets home safely and, you know -- I don`t know if she plans on bringing him back. She didn`t lead me to believe she was going to.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, well, she could be arrested then. Mindy appeared on VH1`s celebrity rehab last year to try to get sober. In a very disturbing scene, Mindy had a seizure right on camera. Check this out.


MACKENZIE PHILLIPS, ACTRESS: She`s dead. Somebody killed Mindy. Mindy? Mindy, are you faking it? She`s not faking this. She`s having a seizure.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Even that, apparently, was not enough to scare her sober. After doing "Celebrity Rehab", which is, of course, about getting sober, published reports claim she relapsed and almost OD`d and had to be hospitalized.

So a big question Billy, is she sober? We actually texted Mindy today and asked her. I`m a recovering alcoholic, ok. So I`m asking from that perspective. To me, this is all addict behavior, whether you`re actually using or not, it`s a mental state. I asked her, are you sober? And if so, what`s your sobriety date? No response.

So let me ask you, Billy, you know her well, you`re the father of her child. Do you think she`s using or do you think she`s sober right now?

MCKNIGHT: I really couldn`t answer that. We talk on the phone now and then. I don`t see her. Of course, I live in Florida, and she does not and, so, I couldn`t tell you if she is or not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you concerned about it? I mean, given everything in her history. In 2007, Mindy called police to report that her mom was assaulting her, but she also has, you know, a past, a rap sheet. I mean I got it somewhere here. Oh, my God, the rap sheet, we could throw up the graphic of it: suspended license driving, battery, resisting arrest, probation violation. She`s got a long rap sheet. I mean, what are your concerns about her being with your son, Billy?

MCKNIGHT: Well, my biggest concern is the fact that Zander`s used to being here in Florida with me and with her mother, and I`m worried about, you know, him just being moved around. As far as talking about her demons that`s up to her to do what`s right with what the case plan says and get herself healthy. If the judge says that she`s good to go, then I would work with her as two adult parents of one child to make his life better.

But I can`t answer for her --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand. Billy, I hope that your son is ok. We want to help and thank you for joining us. I appreciate it.

Noah Levy, senior news editor, "In Touch Weekly". What`s the situation here? I mean, could she get arrested?

NOAH LEVY, SENIOR NEWS EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Of course Mindy can get arrested. The thing is everybody`s having trouble finding her. Mindy says she`s not going to return the son. She`s not going to be leaving the home where she`s at right now.

And we`ve actually spoken to a close insider to Mindy who reveals the scary truth that Mindy thinks she`s not doing anything wrong. That in fact people consider her to be guilty because of her allegations of crime and drug use in the past, but not of what she`s doing currently.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me tell you this. She doesn`t have custody of the kid. Take it away.

VIKKI ZIEGLER, FAMILY ATTORNEY: She doesn`t. And let me tell you something. Court orders are there for a reason. You need to comply with them. You have to make sure that you`re abiding by them.

And when you do not, let me tell you something, courts do not take this lightly. You can go -- you can get arrested, ok? More importantly, there can be sanctions. You can take away parenting time. You can even have your license taken away.

Let me tell you something. These are serious, serious problem problems. I don`t care if you`re pregnant, you have twins, it doesn`t matter. You need to make sure and comply with the order and take that child back where he belongs until a judge makes another determination.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In 2007, Mindy called police to report her mother was assaulting her. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are there any injuries?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s made marks on herself. She made it look like I hurt her. I have a baby in my arms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My mom is attacking me. Please help me.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Noah, this woman is completely, completely drama- ridden. Every word she turns, it`s one drama after the other. All right.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kim Kardashian`s ex, Kris Humphries, wants to have their marriage annulled. He claims it was a fraud.

KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY TV STAR: I would never marry for a TV show, for money, for anything like that. And I think that`s really ridiculous that I have to even, you know, kind of defend that.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The Kim Kardashian/Kris Humphries wedding was a fraud. That is what Kris Humphries is now saying in the court papers I`m holding in my hand. He uses the f word, namely, "fraud". Their marriage lasted a whopping 72 days. But that was long enough for some of it to be on television.

This from the promo for "Kourtney and Kim Take New York". Check out these then-newlyweds -- so romantic.


KARDASHIAN: How am I going to have my career and live in Minnesota?

KRIS HUMPHRIES, EX-HUSBAND OF KIM KARDASHIAN: Baby, by the time you have kids, no one will probably care about you.

KARDASHIAN: He fell in love with me and I fell in love with him. And now my feelings have changed. I failed at this. You don`t think I feel bad?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, the humanity. That was -- I`m sure quite a honeymoon. I wouldn`t have wanted to be a fly on the wall of that honeymoon. But I do want to hear from you. We`re taking your calls, 1- 877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to my good buddy, Rob Shuter from the Huffington Post; Rob, Kris actually thinks he was used as a pawn? Is this the claim?

ROB SHUTER, HUFFINGTON POST: That`s exactly what he`s saying, Jane. It`s quite shocking. Kim, I think, for the first time in this career, this extraordinary career that she`s had, has finally hit a speed bump, and this speed bump is called Kris Humphries. And if she was hoping that he would go away and disappear into the night, she`s going to have to think again. He isn`t going anywhere, not just yet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hell hath no fury like a very tall man scorned. Now, just wait until you see how they interact. Just look at this clip.


KARDASHIAN: Seriously? You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) my whole toe just completely --



Kim, pick on somebody your own size. Why would he want this annul thing?

ZIEGLER: Well, he`s trying to say that this marriage never happened. He was actually the one that is saying she committed the fraud. He was in love with her and actually she wasn`t in love with him. She was in love with the idea that he was going to marry her, they`d have this great TV wedding, and then all of a sudden they`d make all this money. So that`s his concept.

He wants to annul the marriage, make sure that it never happened. And perhaps from a religious perspective, because some people say, listen, they want to start fresh and start clean.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think, Rob?

SHUTER: I think this is really complicated. I think that what I predict is going to happen here is that there might be some sort of financial settlement behind the scenes that make all of this go away. I think he got carried away with this attention, this fame. He certainly wasn`t somebody we were talking about before Kim. He`s now hired a very, very powerful publicist who is putting stories out there on his behalf.

So this is going to be a battle, Jane, we are going to see for weeks. And it`s going to get really, really ugly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just a short time before the wedding, there were signs this happy couple was miserable. Check this out from "Keeping Up with the Kardashians".


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s normal to be all --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Did you two meet each other?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn`t speak for the last two weeks before our wedding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really? It`s a funny thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I hate him. Every last thing annoys me.

HUMPHRIES: I`m ready to get out of here. When is this thing over?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Vikki, do you think he wants an annulment so that he can write a tell-all, which would have been prohibited by the pre-nup?

ZIEGLER: Oh, Jane, you`re so smart. Come on, of course he does. He knows under the terms of the pre-nup, most likely there`s a gag order, as such, that he can`t talk about the wedding, can`t talk about the event or the divorce, he can`t talk about money. If you nullify the marriage, as if it never took place, not a divorce, a legal nullity then all of a sudden there`s no pre-nup, because pre-nups are only operative when there`s a marriage, and then there`s a divorce. So absolutely; that`s exactly what he`s going for on one hand.

Number two, you can shortcut the process and get divorced in less than six months in California if your marriage is annulled versus waiting out the time frame if you get divorced.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you agree, Rob?

SHUTER: I think you`ve absolutely nailed it, again, Jane. I think that`s what everybody in my business is thinking here. That this guy could earn, get this, a staggering $1 million to sit down and tell his side of the story and give us an insight into the Kardashians that we`ve never, ever seen. We`re talking big bucks if he can get this marriage annulled.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me tell you something. This empire is facing a crisis. Now we`re hearing claims that maybe, well, is there another couple in the Kardashian empire splitting up?

On the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where Kris Humphries uses the f word, namely, "fraud". Go to; read all about it. Now we are hearing reports that Bruce and Kris Jenner? These are claims, claims, claims they could be splitting. I don`t want to believe that. Listen to this.


BRUCE JENNER, "KEEPING UP WITH THE KARDASHIANS": Change your last name back to Kardashian? Hang up.

KRIS JENNER: I don`t -- well, I mean first of all, everybody already thinks I`m Kris Kardashian. Everyone calls me Kris Kardashian, Mrs. Kardashian all day long and I think people get kind confused when they call here.

B. JENNER: Do they? Hi, Mrs. Kardashian -- great.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: It just hit me. Her mother and her soon to be ex- husband are both named Kris with a K. What would Freud say about that one? Kris Jenner shot down this whole I`m splitting up with Bruce thing. Tweeting, "Of course Bruce and I are not getting divorced. So silly."

But Rob Shuter, could this whole break up after 72 days be threatening the Kardashian empire?

SHUTER: Oh, gosh. Absolutely, yes. This is the worst thing that happened in the land of Kardashian since it was created not that long ago. The backlash that Kim has had about this wedding is shocking and this is what I think is really interesting about this.

The public does not mind when celebrities break up, when they get divorced; what they hate is if they think they were duped. So if Kim and Kris, her husband not her mother, did in fact pull the wool over our eyes, it is almost unforgivable and the brand will suffer.

That is a big if. But if that is proven to be the case and he is not helping this, Kim and the family and the name and the brand are going to be under a lot of stress.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you are right. It`s like if you go to a wedding and you give a gift and the couple gets divorced right after, you want your plate back. You know, somebody asked me for my plate back once.

All right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Betty, Colorado, your question or thought.

BETTY, COLORADO (via telephone): I think that it`s just sad for someone to -- if she did just get married for the money to be able to promote herself, it`s like she is making fun of all of us who have gotten married for love. She is making a mockery of the whole situation. I mean if I was getting divorced from my husband, I would be upset. I wouldn`t be flying off to Australia to promote myself. I would be at home crying and upset about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think you`re right. I think there has been a public backlash against Kim and this Kardashian clan. In fact, I understand that one boycott being petitioned has 200,000 signatures at this point. However, Vikki Ziegler, family attorney, at the same time the first episode of "Kourtney and Kim Take New York" had three million viewers. We don`t know whether to love them or hate them or maybe we love to hate them.

ZIEGLER: Yes, I think it`s probably an amalgam of both. I think people are rooting for people that get married. They want to see them happy, live this fairy tale and then for it to go and implode 72 days so quickly after we`ve all watched the hoopla and the diamonds and this beautiful gown; there was I think two or three of them. A 20.2 carat diamond, we all were hoping perhaps that this was going to be this beautiful marriage. And you know what; it didn`t happen. It ended very quickly, more quickly than most people thought.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know what it is? It`s a metaphor for our culture. We have commoditized everything. We`ve sold out everything including l-o-v-e.

More in a moment.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, we can`t get jobs. Ok. The wealthiest one percent of the country is taking all the money.

But then we like a split personality. We are fascinated with this multimillion-dollar wedding and a marriage that lasts 72 days. Rob, there is something wrong with our culture.


They have dropped significantly so her show aired last Sunday, first week, huge ratings and this week dropped a lot, Jane. So maybe the tide is turning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Maybe the tide is turning. I mean maybe people are saying hey, we shouldn`t reward this kind of behavior. Maybe we shouldn`t reward this kind of behavior.

"NANCY GRACE" up next.