Return to Transcripts main page


Maintenance Worker, 20, Arrested for Jorelys Rivera`s Murder

Aired December 7, 2011 - 19:00   ET



JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, he was right under their noses. Cops arrest a maintenance man who worked and lived in the very complex where a 7-year-old Georgia girl was found brutally murdered. Cops say they`re confident they have the man who sexually assaulted and killed little Jorelys Rivera in a vacant apartment.

Tonight, I`ll talk to a neighbor who witnessed the arrest, and I`ll speak to someone who`s very close to the little girl`s distraught family. You won`t believe what led cops to this guy.

And accused pedophile/former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky is arrested again. Just when you thought the accusations couldn`t get any more horrifying, two more young men come forward and claim they were molested as boys by Sandusky. The graphic details in the new grand jury report are stomach-churning. And does one of the victims implicate Sandusky`s wife?

Now that a total of ten young boys have accused Sandusky of molestation, why is he still being offered bail? We`re taking your calls.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Huge breaking news tonight on two fronts. First, look at this. Former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky has been arrested again. That`s him walking out of the courthouse. Believe it or not, he is wearing a Penn State jacket as he`s arrested, just a little while ago. Unbelievable that he is wearing a Penn State jacket. Kind of gives you an insight into his psychology.

Tonight, two new alleged victims have come forward, saying they were sexually assaulted by that man. That man in the squad car right there. This legend, Jerry Sandusky. He is behind bars as we speak. They`ve taken a mug shot of him. But he`s probably not going to be behind bars much longer, his attorney working on getting him out. Yes. He is not being held without bail, which is an absolute outrage.

We have the shocking details from the grand jury report I`m holding in my hand, really, really stomach-churning stuff, what he allegedly did to two more young boys. But first, breaking news on another front, in the murder of a precious 7-year-old girl.


VERNON KEENAN, DIRECTOR, GEORGIA BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: A 7-year- old child was abducted, sexually assaulted and murdered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This 7-year-old girl was last seen Friday afternoon on the playground at the River Ridge Apartments.

KEENAN: She was in the Dumpster. She was severely beaten. We believe that she was sexually assaulted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A week or two ago, a little boy went missing for a couple of hours, and I was talking to one of the workers.

He said, and I quote, "With all these empty apartments on the bottom floor, it would be really easy for one of these children or for somebody to break in and do something bad to one of these children."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, that`s what the man who was arrested supposedly said to a neighbor. "Oh, these vacant apartments, it`d be easy to grab a child."

Breaking news tonight: cops arrest a suspect in the brutal, and I mean brutal, sexual assault and murder of 7-year-old Jorelys Rivera.

Good evening, everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City. Take a look at him. Cops moved in and grab this young man in the blue jacket. He`s 20 years old. He is the one accused of sexually assaulting, stabbing and murdering this 7-year-old girl, Ryan Brunn. This guy is a neighbor of the victim. He lived and worked just steps away from her home.

Little Jorelys vanished from her apartment complex playground Friday evening. Cops say they found this innocent little girl -- look how pretty, look how beautiful, all dressed up. Innocent little girl murdered, three days later thrown away like trash in a Dumpster. Police say they have caught the man behind this crime, and he was hiding in plain sight.


KEENAN: We`re here to announce the arrest of Ryan Brunn for the murder of the 7-year-old Rivera child.

We are confident that Brunn is the killer, and that is why he`s in custody.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Suspect Ryan Brunn is a maintenance man at the very apartment complex where little Jorelys lived. Cops say he just recently moved to the town of Canton, just outside of Atlanta. He does not have a criminal record, but they are now checking his background and his movements for other possible crimes.

As cops moved in on this neighbor, suspect, the other neighbors, the good people who were terrified, who were living in terror, jeered and yelled. So who is this man cops think committed this horrifying crime? What do you think? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. I want to hear from you.

Straight out to my exclusive guest, Kelly Knight. You live in the complex where all of this went down, and you witnessed the arrest. Describe for me what it was like when cops came in and went after this suspect, Ryan Brunn.

KELLY KNIGHT, NEIGHBOR: It was very surreal. As soon as we heard they were coming in to that apartment, I went outside my door, and I witnessed it all. And I even hollered at him that I`d like to shoot him myself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And from looking at him, did he -- did he exhibit any kind of remorse? Any kind of -- or -- did you ever run into this guy? You live in the complex.

KNIGHT: He hasn`t been there very long. And the few times I saw him, he appeared very odd, very standoffish. He always had his head down, wouldn`t make eye contact. When he`d wave, he wouldn`t raise his hand, and that was when I would wave to him first.

And like I said, I didn`t see him very often, but the few times I did he struck me as very strange.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How do the mothers and fathers in this complex and surrounding community feel tonight that cops say they have mammoth evidence against this individual? Is there relief?

KNIGHT: Extremely relieved. Very relieved.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And what were people yelling as he -- as he was arrested? Apparently, people were saying things. I know you said something. What else was said?

KNIGHT: I heard someone call him a scum bucket, a monster. That`s really about all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We want to -- we want to look into this man`s life, and we`ve learned some things, so stand by if you can, Kelly.

This 20-year-old accused of the most heinous crime imaginable, sexually assaulting and murdering a little girl. Take a look at this. This is Ryan Brunn`s Facebook page. It was taken down about an hour ago, but we managed to grab it before it was pulled.

Many of the posts are, well, I thought they were bizarrely normal. He`s getting off here, about to eat some pizza. Hit me up. Let`s go Giants. After his birthday in July, thank you, everyone, for the birthday wishes. I had a fun day. Now it`s time to get real loud.

But in some of the posts he seems unhappy. October 21 he writes, "Bored. Nothing to do in this hell hole of a town. Someone hit me up." And also, he posted he is single and seeking women.

Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, it is sort of bizarre he has absolutely no criminal record, according to cops, that he`s only 20 years old, that his family moved from New York City to Georgia to escape some kind of problems. We don`t know exactly what. But that he would just come here, start a job, and then do this?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, you`d have to talk to a psychiatrist to find out the mind of basically a sociopath, because obviously, that`s what it is. Anybody that can sexually assault and then murder a 7-year-old absolutely is devoid of any kind of emotion or any kind of life.

So you`d have to really delve into his mind. I mean, the fact that he doesn`t have anything sexual in his past or anything violent in his past, as we`ve seen on so many occasions, Jane, really does not make a difference. Because we didn`t know currently what has been going on in his life...


HONOWITZ: ... why he would be attracted to doing this to a child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s try to understand who this person, Ryan Brunn, the suspect, is. And we have his brother, Steve Patrick, on the phone exclusively. Steve, I`d ask you to speak up, because I know you have a sketchy connection. Can you hear me?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Well, you cannot hear me but you can hear me ask you if you can hear me. Why don`t we try to get a better connection, because we want to be fair here and we want to hear what you have to say. So let`s call back and get a better connection, and we will talk to you in just a second.

Meantime, listen to what Ryan Brunn`s grandfather says about his daughter and apparently what we`re hearing -- and we want to confirm with the brother -- is that he was adopted. The suspect was adopted. Everybody was adopted into a particular family and the grandfather of this man has been arrested said, "Well, my daughter," in other words, the presumably adopted mother, "hasn`t spoken to me in ten years. I don`t even know my own grandkids. So that part of the family doesn`t talk to any of the rest of us."

So I don`t know, Dr. Reef Karim, what`s going on here. We`re trying to find out. But my question would be, what age was he adopted? Did he come from a foster environment? Was he possibly himself a victim of some kind of sexual malfeasance, which can happen sometimes and can lead to becoming a perpetrator?

But I think it`s interesting that he seems very normal on the surface, but now that we`re scratching, we`re hearing some dysfunctionality.

DR. REEF KARIM, FOUNDER/DIRECTOR, CONTROL CENTER OF BEVERLY HILLS: Yes, there`s a genetics and a trauma history to dysfunction. I mean, first off, any time that you come from an environment that`s dysfunctional, whereby there`s sexual, physical or neglect trauma, then you can pass that on because that`s what you know. That`s what you`re comfortable with. That`s the kind of environment you live in. And that`s how you`ve connected with people in the past.

As weird as that sounds, that is a form of connection and communication that gets passed on from generation to generation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, cops are saying the evidence against him is mammoth. And I want to actually throw this to Stacey. The evidence against this guy is mammoth. Now, what I`m thinking is he`s accused of sexual assault. Could they have already gotten the DNA from the victim back? Because that would certainly be very definitive evidence. His DNA.

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, I mean certainly, when you hear that kind of remark coming from the investigative agency, you would have to assume that, yes, that some sort of forensic, and we`re talking about DNA, because there are allegations that there was sexual assault, that there may have been semen found in her vagina. So yes, it is very possible that the results have come back that quickly, and that`s why they`re able to make that comment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re taking your calls on this. We`re just getting started: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. We are talking to a neighbor who witnessed the arrest of Ryan Brunn, the man accused of killing this precious innocent. And we`re trying to talk to his brother to find out what`s the story with this guy. We want to be fair. We want to know what really happened.

This is an outrage. Stay with us, more on the other side.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): At first I thought it was a lie. But when I got here, my whole world fell apart. They told me that it was true and that they had taken her away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I asked the state of Georgia that the person who committed this atrocity, that they throw the full force of the law at him, because they need to stop this. They need to stop this abuse against children.




KEENAN: Abduction took place in the immediate vicinity of the playground.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight, a neighborhood in total panic.

KEENAN: We`re here to announce the arrest of Ryan Brunn for the murder of the 7-year-old Rivera child.


KEENAN: She was severely beaten. We believe that she was sexually assaulted.

Brunn is 20 years of age. He is employed as a maintenance worker at the apartment complex where the child resided.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would have went with anybody, I believe. She was just very outgoing and very friendly and trusted everybody.

KEENAN: This is a mammoth case. We believe that this horrendous crime was planned and calculated.

BROOKS: That vacant apartment is in the building right next to Jorelys`s.

KEENAN: The murder occurred in that vacant apartment.

BROOKS: This is the trash compacter where Jorelys`s body was placed.

KEENAN: We`re confident that Brunn is the killer.

The abduction took place in the immediate vicinity of the playground where the 7-year-old child was playing. The child was taken to a vacant apartment unit located in a building adjacent to where the child resided. We have evidence that the murder occurred in that vacant apartment.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops making an arrest in the horrific, unimaginable sexual assault and murder of little Jorelys Rivera. And now, this is really astonishing. We`re trying to understand who is this suspect, and we`re going to show him to you as we speak.

On July 6, right after the Casey Anthony verdict, where she was acquitted of murder, OK, this guy, OK, posted something about Casey Anthony on Facebook. He made a lot of spelling errors, but we`re going to show you right now what he wrote about Casey Anthony. "That `B` word was not guilty for killing her kid. `B word` should have died, but really she`ll get hers."

So I`ve got to wonder. We`re hearing, Dr. Reef Karim, this guy was stuck in a dead-end job in a small town. He was bored out of his mind. OK. He says that on his Facebook, bored out of his mind in this town. He sees a young woman in another case about murder get off and become infamous around the world.

Do you think, Dr. Reef, this could have been some kind of ploy for attention if, in fact, he killed this girl?

KARIM: Yes, I mean you could -- you could come up with a cry for attention, come up with a lot of things. But the reality is we, as individuals, and as human beings, do not go to sexual assault or to murder in regards to anyone, let alone a kid. It is not natural in our conditioning. It just doesn`t happen psychologically.

So when you go that direction -- first off sexual assault, secondly murder, and third, to a young child -- there`s definitely something wrong with you. Whether you want to call it a psychological problem or just pure evil. Whatever you want to call that, there`s something off.

I don`t think it`s just, "Hey, I saw this other case, and I want to get attention myself." I think it`s much, much beyond that. This is a very scary individual, and -- who needs a ton of help. And the word "evil," as much as I don`t want to use that word, really seems to apply in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go out to the phone lines. They`re lighting up. Sandra, New York, your question or thought, Sandra?

CALLER: Yes. My statement is, you know, I`m listening to this doctor, and my thing is that society has painted a picture, anyone over the age of 19 they consider as an adult. You`re addressing society, this community. They`re addressing this kid -- this is what he is, a kid, OK? Twenty years old. I have a 20 -- a 19-year-old daughter. I know everything she does from the time she goes to the bathroom and she`s in college. OK? And I`m in Long Island.

My thing is that I will get very upset if society paints a picture as if there is something -- and this is something mentally wrong with this kid...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. Look, look, nobody`s getting off the hook here. This guy has been accused. He hasn`t been convicted. Cops say the evidence is overwhelming. We`re trying to understand who he is, so we can stop the next brutal murder.

More in a second.


HEATHER JOHNSON-COKER, NEIGHBOR: I called in a tip to the GBI this morning, because I was talking to one of the workers that works at the complex, because a week or two ago a little boy went missing for a couple of hours. and I was talking to one of the workers, and during our conversation about the little boy being missing, he mentioned, and he said and I quote, "With all these empty apartments on the bottom floor, it would be really easy for one of these children, or for somebody to break in and do something bad to one of these children."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she`s saying it`s the suspect who said that to her. A maintenance man who was arrested and now accused of killing little Jorelys Rivera.

Cops are saying public tips like that led them to this suspect.

I want to go out to Charlotte Orr. You are the neighbor of this precious murdered child, Jorelys Rivera. What do you know about the suspect we`re going to show, as well, as we talk? What do you know about this Ryan Brunn in terms of how long he`s been there at the complex?

What do you know, Charlotte?

CHARLOTTE ORR, NEIGHBOR: I know that he`s been there approximately four weeks to a month. He probably went to work the first of the month or so. I know that they did a background check on him. I know that.


ORR: Other than that, as far as no...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He has no criminal record, which is kind of surprising. Now what about where this child was taken from? Everybody is saying she was taken from the playground. What are your thoughts on that?

ORR: I don`t think the child was taken from the playground. The child was on the playground at 4 p.m. playing with my great-grandbaby. She was in front of my apartment at -- which is right next to the playground. She was in front of my apartment about 5 p.m., and I`m just guessing on the time. It could have been a little before. Playing at the tree.

I seriously feel like that, you know, they keep saying that she went to the house to get drinks. And I seriously feel like that somebody grabbed her when she came out of that apartment, took her out the back way and around through. Because on the back of that apartment is just trees and stuff. And I feel like they took her from that apartment -- I mean, from that building around to where the evidence that they found was found.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst on the ground there, cops say they have mammoth evidence against this suspect. Could it be DNA that they took from the victim? What do you think that mammoth evidence is?

BROOKS: Well, Jane, it sounds to me, as a former investigator, like they`ve got a lot of evidence out of that vacant apartment. And that could be anything from blood evidence to DNA, to fingerprints to trace evidence, to, you know, I mean, it could be a blood spatter. If she was brutally beaten and stabbed inside of that apartment, then, you know, there could be a plethora of evidence. Plus, evidence that was maybe inside, or close to her from the compacter. Also, evidence from his apartment and also good a possibility of evidence from his vehicle, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the most disturbing aspect, one of the most, is that this child was thrown away like trash and that she was put in a trash compacter, and the compacter was compacted. And the only person who has that key is somebody who is a maintenance person. So I think that`s another reason why they focused in on this person. You`re looking at the trash compacter there.

Up next, Jerry Sandusky arrested again.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news also out of Pennsylvania, another accuser has come forward making allegations against Jerry Sandusky.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accused of using his position within the community and the university to prey on numerous young boys for more than a decade.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are just learning this second that additional charges will be brought against Sandusky.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a case about football, it`s not a case about universities; it`s a case about children who have had their innocence stolen from them and a culture that did nothing to stop it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think it would beyond the realm of possibility that there are other victims that exist here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He also began to coerce this child at 10 to satisfy his own perverse sexual impulses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His attorney says they admit that he did touch boys but it was in a nonsexual way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news, Sandusky is now in custody.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight, it`s happened yet again. Two more young men have come forward saying they, too, were sexually assaulted by Penn State legend Jerry Sandusky.

Here is the brand-new video just in of Jerry Sandusky getting arrested for a second time. This is just a few hours ago. These two young men, the new accusers say they were inspired to come forward after hearing about eight accusers just last month. So now there are ten. Ten accusers officially saying Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulted them when they were boys. And already this guy`s lawyer is plotting on how to get him out on bail.


JOE AMENDOLA, ATTORNEY FOR JERRY SANDUSKY: Well, we`re working on posting bail. It`s going to take some time. And as I said, it`s already late in the day. And the courthouse closes at 5:00 and that`s where I`m headed out to now to try to start that process. Realistically it`s going to take a while. We anticipated this so we did a lot of the preliminary paperwork to be prepared for this eventuality.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can you believe he`s being offered bail again? Where is the outrage over Jerry Sandusky being offered bail? Again? Why aren`t we seeing the same level of rage we say when Penn State legend and Coach Joe Paterno was fired after Sandusky`s initial arrest? Remember this?




VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Just a couple of hours before these explosive new allegations, Sandusky`s very talkative lawyer was doing another media blitz, going on CBS to say all these boys, they`re just liars.


AMENDOLA: I think the way Jerry has described it, the kids with whom he showered were basically like his own kids. He treated them like his own kids. And Jerry really didn`t feel he was doing anything wrong in getting showers with them. Now, would I do it, would you do it, would other people do it, perhaps not? But I think there`s a big distinction between getting a shower with a child who you treat as your own child and committing a criminal act which is what`s been alleged in these cases.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, oh, are they all liars? You be the judge. I`m going to read just a fraction of the nauseating charges against Sandusky in this new grand jury report. Victim number 9 says Sandusky attempted anal penetration on at least 16 occasions and at times did penetrate him. Victim number ten testified Sandusky pulled his gym shorts down and performed oral sex on him.

You can read the entire grand jury report on

And this man, again, offered bail despite two new accusers coming forward telling the almost identical story. The supply with gifts and games and money and groomed and wrestling and hugging and touchy-feely stuff; all leading up, cops say, to Outright Sexual Assault:

Look at this face. Look at the face of Jerry Sandusky. Imagine if you`re an 11-year-old boy down in this man`s basement and Sandusky is coming down there at night and demanding you perform oral sex on him. Those are the charges. Imagine how terrifying that has to be to a little boy. A little boy who`s staying over at the home of a man he worships as a sports legend. And then this guy comes downstairs and demands oral sex and rapes you allegedly.

And where was Mrs. Sandusky? Dottie. You will not believe what one accuser is saying about her.

I want to hear from you. We`re taking your calls, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1- 877-586-7297.

Straight out to Arnie Spanier, CBS Radio Host, 105.3 Dallas; I cannot believe that despite everything, despite him going on television repeatedly and saying, oh, I did nothing, and being glib and cavalier they still offer him bail. Isn`t that in itself evidence that he is a threat to society because he in his mind is convinced he`s done absolutely nothing wrong?

ARNIE SPANIER, HOST CBS RADIO, 105.3 DALLAS: Jane, he`s a threat, why this guy is going to be allowed to walk out I have no idea. His own grandkids won`t come visit him. This is disgusting. This guy, I tell you, if I was sitting across from him -- and I`m not a violent guy, I`d rip his head off. I don`t care about all this alleged and stuff like that, this guy`s a monster.

And you saw that story with the little girl that was buried in the trash compacter, I have enough. We`ve had enough of people taking our kids and killing our kids and raping our kids. And that`s enough.

We have to do something about it, Jane. We can`t allow this anymore. America`s got to step up. I`ve had enough of this -- enough, Jane. We`ve got to do something.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Throughout this entire sordid scandal, Jerry Sandusky has seemed very cavalier, bizarrely light-hearted. He`s done interviews like this one from the "New York Times" cheerfully sugar-coating his relationship with boys. Check this out.


JERRY SANDUSKY, FORMER PENN STATE ASSISTANT COACH: If I say no I`m not attracted to boys, that`s not the truth because I`m attracted to young people, boys, girls --

AMENDOLA: Yes, but not sexually. You`re attracted because you enjoy spending time --

SANDUSKY: Right, I enjoy -- that`s what I was trying to say -- I enjoy spending time with young people. I enjoy spending time with people. I mean, my two favorite groups are the elderly and the young.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s smiling and laughing, his lawyer has to say, oh, but not sexually, trying to do damage control on Sandusky`s self- incriminating comments.

Victim Nine was 10 years old when he allegedly fell into Sandusky`s clutches. In the grand jury report, he says Sandusky frequently told the boy that he loved him.

And I want to go to Buzz Bissinger, sports columnist, "Newsweek", you`re with "The Daily Beast". It seems to me like Jerry Sandusky really in his heart believes that he`s done nothing wrong. That society is messed up, we`re all messed up and that he`s just loving boys -- loving boys. He hasn`t been convicted of anything. He can come on the show any time and I`d love to ask him a few questions, but is that the classic attitude of a pedophile?

BUZZ BISSINGER, SPORTS COLUMNIST, "NEWSWEEK": Well, you know, it`s the classic attitude of most criminal defendants. Either they`re lying or they somehow convince themselves they`ve done nothing wrong. Every time Sandusky has given an interview, he`s done nothing but incriminate himself.

The worst thing about these new charges is -- I think it`s Victim Nine -- those hideous incidents, including anal intercourse were alleged to have occurred in 2004. That means two years after the famous shower incident in 2002 which makes the culpability of Joe Paterno and Mike McQueary, and the administrators at Penn State even worse. By doing nothing, they aided and abetted in at least yet another act and acts, hideous acts against another victim.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are absolutely right. Boy says new accuser happened in 2004. Jerry Sandusky was allegedly eye-witnessed sexually assaulting a boy in the Penn State showers in 2002. Joe Paterno knew about it, bunch of people at Penn State knew about it, nothing happened -- nothing.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: How could all this, by the way, be going on in the Sandusky home without Mrs. Sandusky, Dottie, becoming suspicious over her husband constantly going down in the basement with all these boys?

Remember in the Syracuse scandal, a different scandal -- and we`re going to get to that in a minute -- the wife of accused pedophile assistant basketball coach, Bernie Fine was caught on tape admitting she knew something very wrong was going on. Remember this?


LAURIE FINE, WIFE OF BERNIE FINE: Right. Right. He just has a nasty attitude because he didn`t get his money, nor did he get what he wanted.


FINE: It`s about the (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I know that. So you`re -- I`ve been telling you for your own good you`re better off just staying away from him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Now back to the Sandusky case. The grand jury report says Victim Number Nine said, quote, "On at least one occasion he screamed for help knowing that Sandusky`s wife was upstairs but no one ever came to help him," end quote.

Hello? Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, how clueless do you have to be not to wonder what`s going on when your husband is down in the basement with boys all the time. When your husband, according to the other grand jury report, calls one of these boys 60-some times and then 57 times, my gosh. Don`t you look at the phone bill?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, Jane I mean -- yes, I mean the fact of the matter is it`s called denial. And in a lot of these -- we see it in a lot of these cases where pedophiles go on -- things go on in the house, there`s a wife in the house and she might suspect that something`s happening but a true classic pedophile is what Jerry Sandusky is, how he reacted when he gave an he interview, they don`t think they`re doing anything wrong.

And that`s probably what he told his wife, I just love these kids. I`m helping them -- I`m trying to help them. So the wife never wants to believe that her husband is performing oral sex upon a young child. It`s classic pedophile behavior and classic behavior within a family. You`re not seeing anything different and you probably are going to see more victims come forward because you know there`s strength in numbers.

Once one boy talks, others will come forward because they will be happy now to get it out there. It will be closure for them to be able to talk about it. That`s why education about this is so important.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Could this mushrooming scandal destroy Penn State? On the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: In my book "Addict Nation" I talk about how I turn into a real sugar addict. I had to give it up entirely. I cannot successfully negotiate with processed sugar but I still crave sweets. So where do I go? I go to nature. I go to fruits. Mango, dates, bananas, tangerines, blueberries, ginger, and here`s something that looks like sugar but it isn`t. We`re talking about dried coconut chunks. There`s many ways to get something sweet without eating the wrong thing.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two additional victims coming forward, they`re now known as Victim Nine and Victim Ten.

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Two different men obviously who were 9, 10, 11 years old at the time.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Victim Nine first encountered Jerry Sandusky in about 2004 while he was participating in a summer camp organized by Second Mile. Sandusky allegedly took the boy to a number of Penn State football games and gave him gifts and money.

KARAS: I expect that this is something that is going to happen again.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I just want to read a little more from this new grand jury report. It`s beyond comprehension.

Victim Number Ten says the relationship ended after an incident in Sandusky`s vehicle. Sandusky was driving his car and Victim Number Ten was his front seat passenger. Sandusky opened his pants exposing his penis and indicated he wanted Victim Ten to perform oral sex on him. Victim Ten refused and Sandusky was displeased with his refusal.

So my question right now, could this mushrooming sex scandal destroy Penn State, financially and other ways? Already one young man, not among the ten mentioned by cops, another person has filed a lawsuit against Penn State. Others are expected to.


MARCI HAMILTON, ATTORNEY: That`s really what this case is about. It`s about institutional concealment and a callous disregard of child sexual abuse by powerful men in a powerful institution.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Buzz Bissinger, "Newsweek" sports columnist, could this destroy Penn State as an institution?

BISSINGER: You know, I don`t think it will. First of all, it`s a state-related institution; it`s going to get a lot of money from the state. Lawsuits are going to be filed. They`ll be able to pay them out. It is a great institution academically. Personally, I feel -- and I know $1.5 million is being donated to a campaign against sexual abuse.

What they need to do is what Rupert Murdoch actually did with "News of the World" and the hacker scandal. Close down football. It has become unseemly. Don`t go to the ball game. Don`t have football next year. Get back to your roots. Get rid of football. Get rid of this culture of Omerta and secrecy.

And you know what? Penn State will be just fine. And it may be better as an academic institution, which I think is what it`s supposed to be.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, we`re going to read another, another one of these horrific, horrific quotes from this new grand jury report. We`re going to put it up and I`m going to read it to you.

"In the pool, Sandusky exposed his erect penis and had him perform oral sex." Now here`s the thing. I want to go to the video of him being arrested today because he is wearing a Penn State jacket.

Dr. Reef Karim, psychiatrist -- and we`re going to play that, what does -- there you go -- that blue jacket, that`s a Penn State jacket. What does it say about this guy, that at the moment he`s arrested he is wearing a Penn State jacket -- the very institution that he has thrown a hand grenade into?

DR. REEF KARIM, PSYCHIATRIST: That he identifies with Penn State, which is why this is such a problem for Penn State University. That`s his identity. That`s where he feels comfortable. And this is a guy that`s a sexual predator based on --


KARIM: -- the fact that -- alleged -- based on the fact that he grooms. He has a different way about doing it. He has a seductive way about doing it. He goes about showering gifts and telling these kids he loves them, befriending them and gaining their trust and then betraying them sexually. So these kids now go on through life not knowing how to trust, how to know the difference between affection and being taken advantage of.

This is -- and the fact that bail is continuing on here makes it even more difficult for these victims because if he`s contacting them or having anything to do with them at all, they`re just re-experiencing this trauma over and over.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s outrageous that there`s bail -- $250,000 bail. The prosecution asked for $1 million bail and the judge said no. This -- if he doesn`t think he`s done anything wrong, he`s a threat to society. He lives next to a playground.

Go to the phone lines; Carol, South Carolina, your question or thought Carol?

CAROL, SOUTH CAROLINA (via telephone): Well, I understand from previous news that he has six adopted children and has fostered children. I`m wondering the gender of these children, and also does anybody else find it strange that a wife or family member has never come out on his behalf?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it`s fascinating, buzz, we have 20 seconds. I know that one of his adopted sons has children and the divorcing wife or estranged wife or divorced wife of those children doesn`t want this guy anywhere near those kids.

BISSINGER: Sandusky is not only an alleged, hideous sexual pervert, he is deluded. I think he`s rubbing it in Penn State`s face when he wears a Penn State jacket. I think he is disgusting --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. More in a second.



SUNNY HOSTIN, "IN SESSION" LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Typically when you have a serial rapist, you have to determine in determining bail, Ryan, whether or not he`s a flight risk and whether or not he`s a threat to the community at large. I think when you look at those conditions, perhaps he doesn`t have a passport, but I think we can all agree that if these allegations are true then he is a threat to the community.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, the prosecutors wanted $1 million, the judge said no. Remember, the first judge had to recuse herself because she had some connections to this charity that he used as his personal hunting ground allegedly and now you have a new judge says, no, I`m going to give him $250,000 bail.

Now, there`s a hearing next Tuesday, so if he makes bail before that, he could literally saunter into court like he owns the place. How is that going to impact the alleged victims who might have to testify against him at that hearing?

HONOWITZ: Well, listen. We don`t -- we`re trying to figure out why he does have bond. If this happened in Florida he would be a no-bond hold because of the nature of the allegations and the age of the victims at the time. The prosecutors asked for $1 million which basically they felt would be tantamount to no bond but it appears as though he`s able to make it.

I`m sure the victims are sitting there thinking to themselves, why is the judge letting him out? We don`t know the answer to that. I don`t think it`s going to have an impact next week. It`s the preliminary hearing, it`s to determine whether or not there`s probable cause basically to go forward with the case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey, with due respect, and I know you`re the expert but just from a human standpoint I think it will. I think that if I`m going to go in there and have to testify against somebody and they saunter in, in a suit, it`s very different than if they`re being held behind bars and they come in, in shackles wearing an orange outfit. I think it`s very different.

HONOWITZ: Yes. And I`ll tell you why. You know what Jane; in cases like this, under normal circumstances, the lawyer`s going to be bring him a suit and they`re never going to usher him in his shackles. He`s going to be sitting there when the victims come in and --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We can agree to disagree.

HONOWITZ: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Today the DA in the other sex scandal, the Syracuse child sex scandal dropped a bombshell that the two men who accused assistant basketball coach, Bernie Fine, of sexual abuse are credible, but can`t do anything to charge him, the statute of limitations has passed. Check this out.


BILL FITZPATRICK, ONONDAGA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I can`t bring Bernie Fine to justice for what he did to Bobby Davis and Mike Lange. And if there`s other victims out there we`ll certainly pursue them to the fullest extent of the law and at the United States attorney`s office, I have every confidence if there`s any evidence with the matters that they`ve seized or if they can put a case together regarding a federal crime, they`ll do it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Arnie Spanier that`s certainly not encouraging to people coming forward, oh, this guy`s never going to be charged by the state because statute of limitations is passed.

SPANIER: Jane, how are other people going to come forward when we tell them, oh, it`s too late, we can`t do anything. There`s not enough proof. We don`t have this, we don`t have that. How could we possibly come forward and put these SOBs behind bars if nobody`s going to help us?

How can he be out walking free and then you say we`re not going to do anything? He`s completely free and the statute`s up and he`s going to walk out a free man? That`s nuts, man. This whole thing is crazy -- both counts, Syracuse and Penn State.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this.

SPANIER: Jane, I don`t know what we`re doing now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this. Let`s get the stereotypes out of our heads about what sexual predators look like. Ok? We have these stupid stereotypes in our heads -- cartoons -- and they don`t match the reality. And I think the judges are also under those misconceptions.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have a friend who recently spent the night in jail because she was caught driving with a license that happened to expire. But yet we cannot put the guy we`re about to show you -- he can`t stay behind bars for too long. No. They granted him bail. Ok? If he makes the bail, he`s out.

Buzz Bissinger, 15 seconds.

BISSINGER: The bail is ridiculously low. This points out to me that the people of Penn State and Center County, including that judge, don`t get it. They are still under the spell of the culture of football. It is ridiculous, that amount of bail. It is disgraceful.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And a culture of denial as well. Arnie Spanier, 15 seconds.

SPANIER: Jane, this is going to be easy. Get him in jail, let`s find him guilty of his heinous crimes, roll up his sleeve and go ahead and kill him. He needs to be put to death.

There you go Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wake up to the reality.