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PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
The Threat of North Korea; Interview with Kathy Griffin
Aired December 19, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight, is Kim Jong-Il's son just as dangerous as his father?
JON HUNTSMAN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: His dad couldn't be trusted. And so I don't think there's anything to suggest that Kim Jong-Un can be any more trusted than his dad.
MORGAN: Jon Huntsman on North Korea's great successor. Also Henry Kissinger on the threat to the region and to the world. Plus the reason I've got extra security in my studio tonight. Well, this is what happened the last time Kathy Griffin was here.
Oh, my god, what's going on? What are you -- what's happening here?
One of the world's most dangerous men may be dead, but one of the world's most dangerous women is very firmly still alive and in my studio tonight.
KATHY GRIFFIN, COMEDIAN: I have no limits or filter, no class, no poise. No decorum. Just fun.
MORGAN: Brace yourselves, it's Kathy Griffin, take two.
GRIFFIN: How many times have you been properly loved?
MORGAN: This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
Good evening. The death of dictator Kim Jong-Il puts his third and youngest son in charge of one of the most dangerous countries on the planet, a country with a nuclear program and now an untested 20- something leader. So there's no surprise that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says the United States will remain vigilant even though North Korea has not yet made any unexpected moves.
But how dangerous is that son, Kim Jong-Un? Well, Jon Huntsman says there's always a certain amount of craziness, his word, in North Korea. And he joins me now.
Jon Huntsman, I mean, a crazy place, not many people know that much about the inner workings of North Korea. How much importance should we put on this shift in power? Because on the face of it, a 29-year-old boy, a son in charge of this dangerous, crazy nuclear power should be a cause for massive concern. HUNTSMAN: Well, Piers, you have a situation that isn't an isolated incident. It's in the heart of Northeast Asia. And let us remember that we have major economic interests in Northeast Asia. You take Japan, you take South Korea, both of whom are key allies of ours, you take Taiwan, you take a big part of China, you take some of Russia and that constitutes about 20 percent of the world's GDP.
And when you have these kinds of international incidents and you have a crazy regime that starts lobbing short-range ballistic missiles into the Yellow Sea, it disrupts the flow of trade and commerce, it impedes economic growth in ways that hurts our country.
Our objective is to get this economy back on its feet. That's what I want to do as president. We have a lot of exports that go to -- that go to Northeast Asia. And that means when you have these kinds of incidents, there's an economic reverberation. And I think that's what we need to be looking out for.
Therefore, our objective in the region needs to be stability. We need to be working very, very closely with South Korea and with Japan and in consultations with Russia and China, all of whom have a shared interest in a stable Korean peninsula and also a nuclear-free Korean peninsula, which ultimately should be our goal.
And my concern tonight is that with young Kim Jong-Un, 29 years old. He no longer has Kim Jong-Il, his father, around, which means he now on his own has to start consolidating power. He has to win over the party apparatchiks. He's got to win over senior military cadre. This transition has been under way for a year and a half at least, but he's never stood alone.
He's got to win that -- those key components of the North Korean elite over or he could be in real trouble. And there will be factional fighting and will be probably some feuds within the Kim family. And it's uncertain for at least the time being.
MORGAN: Let me bring in "New York Times" columnist now Nick Kristof.
Because, Nick, you've been to North Korea several times. You've been tweeting about it today in a most fascinating way. Clearly North Korea was a very despotic regime, wasn't it? I mean millions of people it killed through starvation, through this kind of horrible regime.
Tell me about the reality of North Korea.
NICK KRISTOF, THE NEW YORK TIMES: It was not just despotic. This is the most totalitarian country in the history of the world, I think, because he had -- because Kim Jong-Il had technologies that Stalin never had. Every home in North Korea that I visited had a speaker on the wall, and that speaker would wake you up in the morning with propaganda. It would put you to sleep at night with propaganda.
If you -- triplets are considered auspicious. So any woman in the country who had triplets was bound to hand over those triplets for the state to raise. There is just a degree of control that you simply can't imagine. And it also means that the brain washing to some degree has worked. A lot of North Koreans do genuinely admire the Kim family because they don't know anything else. They have no other source of information.
MORGAN: Jon Huntsman, you obviously were an ambassador to China. China is a key country, I suspect now, in what happens next with North Korea and its relationship with countries like America. If you were President Obama would you be picking the phone up now to the Chinese to make sure there is nothing untoward that now happens?
HUNTSMAN: Well, we have a shared interest in the outcome. We both want stability. We want stability on the peninsula. It isn't in anyone's interest to have a failed nation state on our hands. You know a failed nation state in North Korea would see a flood of refugees cross the Yellow River. That would be very destabilizing in Manchuria, in the Dongbei region where China has a thriving economy.
So, you know, the Chinese are very, very concerned about how this plays out. No doubt they're communicating messages to Pyongyang. No doubt they're very, very concerned about the unpredictability of the regime.
And I know we sometimes think that they're able to communicate messages on the part of the West from time to time, that they have great credibility and clout in Pyongyang, but I think the emerging generation of leaders in China, I think they're terribly frustrated with the unpredictability with the North Korean leadership.
I think they're very concerned about the future direction of a country, of 25 million people, where you've got eight million of them starving during the winter months. It's a highly volatile situation.
MORGAN: Nick Kristof, let's turn to the great successor as the son is laughably called. And also I wanted to ask you about these images coming out of North Korea apparently showing the populous devastated beyond belief, weeping and wailing at the loss of their great leader. I mean this is just a stunt, isn't it, for western media eyes?
KRISTOF: I think that we all think -- are very cynical about this. In fact, I must say I've talked to so many defectors from North Korea, typically those who have fled into China. And they overwhelmingly say that once they reach China, they're -- you know, they realized that Chinese and South Koreans are wealthier than North Koreans, but until then many people in North Korea really do believe in the regime.
I remember one story about the bodyguard for Kim Jong-Il and his wife was so aghast at stories of him womanizing that she wrote a letter to the party center complaining about this. That letter was then handed over to Kim Jong-Il himself. He summoned the wife into a meeting, which that bodyguard was present and handed a gun to the bodyguard and gave the bodyguard the right to execute his own wife in front of this group and the bodyguard did. This is a regime in which a lot of people have really internalized that system. And I think in that context it's not surprising that we're seeing these kind of tears at least among those people who have a real stake in the regime.
MORGAN: And Jon Huntsman, I can't let you go without a little mention of a certain election coming up in Iowa. Your poll numbers in New Hampshire certainly are ticking up a little bit. A little hope there. Some green acorns sprouting?
HUNTSMAN: Listen, hopes spring eternal. And in New Hampshire, where I am tonight, obviously, we've done 126 public events. We just based on the recent poll overtook Ron Paul for the number three slot here. And I can feel the energy on the streets of this great state. This is still an old grassroots political state. You've got to get out and earn the vote. It might not show up in the polls early on but as I approach the end of December and early January, that's when it matters most.
And I feel that wave effect in physics where once it begins, it doesn't stop, and it's going to take us right on into January because we're talking to the people here in New Hampshire about the two deficits that matter most, our economic deficit and our trust deficit. Because people in this country no longer trust their institutions of power. They know that Congress needs term limits.
They know that we've got to close the resolving door that allows members of Congress to become lobbyists. They know that we've got to deal with banks on Wall Street that today are too big to fail. Nobody else will talk about them and their messages, Piers, that are resonating with the great people of this great state. And I love --
MORGAN: OK, well, Jon Huntsman --
HUNTSMAN: I know exactly where we sit today.
MORGAN: Jon Huntsman, best of luck. And Nick Kristof, thank you very much as well.
KRISTOF: My pleasure.
HUNTSMAN: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: How great is the danger to the world now with Kim Jong- Il's son in charge? Joining me exclusively is Dr. Henry Kissinger. He's currently chairman of Kissinger and Associates and Special Consultancy firm.
Dr. Kissinger, thank you for joining me. I suppose the obvious question for you with all your experience in this particular region is how dangerous do you think North Korea really is in the global scheme of things.
We don't know much about the country. We don't know much about their nuclear capacity really. In your sense of what you've heard about it, what do you think? How dangerous is North Korea right now?
HENRY KISSINGER, FOUNDER, CHAIRMAN, KISSINGER ASSOCIATES: North Korea as a state has a considerable blackmailing capability because they have a large concentration of artillery aimed at the city of Seoul, which is the capital of South Korea, and has a very large population. So they could inflict huge casualties.
As a state in a normal military conflict, the only strength of North Korea is its capacity for suicidal measures, but not for sustaining a long-range conflict. I don't think that North Korea as such can go beyond certain limits if China, the United States, Japan, Russia and South Korea can come to a common position.
And I would think that the most important objective for the U.S. government at the moment is to get some agreement among these countries about restraining any domestic upheavals or any shows of strength by North Korea.
MORGAN: Clearly China is a very, very important part of this process going forward. Knowing the Chinese as you do, what do you think they'll be feeling now? Will they be concerned about this transfer in power, the new guy, the son is very young. He's 29.
KISSINGER: So China does not want North Korea conduct an aggressive policy. But it also doesn't want North Korea to collapse and thereby run the risk in the Chinese mind of western military establishments moving up to the yellow river, which is right very close to the centers of Chinese industrial strength.
So the Chinese are in an ambivalent situation. They don't want a conflict, but they have not yet figured out how to help in eradicating the elements that might produce a conflict.
MORGAN: Just changing tack for a moment, although on a similar theme, obviously the American president has to deal with the fallout of Kim Jong-Il's death may within a year be a new president. When you look at all the candidates for the Republican race to be president, which one of them from their foreign policy statements is the one that you think is most suited to be president of the United States?
KISSINGER: I have tried to stay out of the debate but in the Republican Party. I'm sure that everybody will be against North Korea possessing nuclear weapons. Everybody will be against North Korea proliferating its nuclear technology. And everybody would be opposed to North Korea pressuring its neighbors because it cannot go on that a country of such bizarre governmental structures can blackmail the world with its nuclear capability.
MORGAN: Dr. Kissinger, thank you very much indeed for your time.
KISSINGER: Pleasure to be on.
MORGAN: Coming up next, she may be the most dangerous woman in television. Watch out, America, Kathy Griffin is back, unleashed and live.
MORGAN: For some unfathomable reason, I've invited comedian Kathy Griffin back on my show. Six months ago she straddled this very desk in an attempt to apparently get me thrown off CNN. It didn't work. But she's back again.
And we like to live dangerously here, so why not? We've gone from a, well, coverage of a complete lunatic to having a complete lunatic.
GRIFFIN: Thank you, Anderson.
GRIFFIN: I'm just thrilled to be here with you and the team at "360." You know, I've never had Henry Kissinger open for me before.
GRIFFIN: Usually when I do the clubs or in my case the sold-out show at Carnegie Hall, you know, maybe somebody with a puppet or something or harmonica. But yes, Dr. Kissinger, I mean, he really laid them out. He killed. He killed as we say in comedy.
MORGAN: Let me ask you. A lot of women over the years have told me that Henry Kissinger is an unlikely sex symbol. Do you find him sexy?
GRIFFIN: Are you hanging out with Jill St. John a lot? Because when you say women over the years I don't know -- I'd like to talk about Barbara Eden then nobody in my demographic knows what you're talking about.
MORGAN: Would you find him sexy through his voice, his brain?
GRIFFIN: Well, the voice alone.
MORGAN: Amazing voice, isn't it?
GRIFFIN: I mean my pants fell of during the commercial break.
GRIFFIN: That's how much that voice gets to me if you like the sound of a vibrator losing its batteries.
GRIFFIN: That's not a bad thing. I'm just --
MORGAN: Can you see Henry Kissinger -- to be serious, actually a movie -- a movie sound guy, you know, coming after the break, "Lord of the Rings."
GRIFFIN: You mean like the old Moviefone guy?
GRIFFIN: That's -- yes, I think there's a career for him in voice-over. I really do.
GRIFFIN: I'm always thinking outside my box, but that's me. I'm the idea man.
MORGAN: I want people to take part in this what will be an embarrassing virago between you and I. So if you've got any tweets that are rather particularly offensive nature that could severely embarrass my guest tonight, Kathy Griffin.
GRIFFIN: Good luck. Good -- it takes a lot.
MORGAN: Send them to @piersmorgan right now and I promise you the more offensive they are, the more likely they will be read out.
GRIFFIN: Absolutely. And answered.
MORGAN: Who is in charge here?
GRIFFIN: Well, first of all, my Twitter is called @kathygriffin, and if you want to send them to a real star, send them to me.
What were you saying, Anderson?
GRIFFIN: I didn't mean to interrupt. You little talking (INAUDIBLE).
MORGAN: Are you looking forward to humiliating Anderson on New Year's Eve?
GRIFFIN: I really live for that night. You know? It's going to be our fifth year in a row. And I've got some things planned that -- well, my dream is to make the screen just turn into a bar code. So first I want to -- you want to hear some rustling, Anderson's mike goes dead, and then you just think it's a tornado warning.
MORGAN: You could take him -- you can get him off air.
GRIFFIN: I know I can.
MORGAN: You can create a whole three-hour special for me every night in one swoop.
MORGAN: Well, come on, do it.
GRIFFIN: I have plans. I'm -- MORGAN: Really?
GRIFFIN: I'm going to drunk dial Wolf Blitzer.
MORGAN: Yes. I like that. I heard you were going to give him a roofie? What -- and forgive my British ignorance --
GRIFFIN: What's a Rohypnol?
MORGAN: What is a roofie?
GRIFFIN: OK. Well, a roofie is -- let's just say a sedative. And you typically it would be a horrible drug --
MORGAN: Is it Rohypnol? Is that the --
MORGAN: So it's the --
GRIFFIN: Do you do any research for the show? Do you read? Are there cards?
MORGAN: I just haven't heard it called a roofie before.
GRIFFIN: All right. I can tell you you're still in your Kissinger mind.
MORGAN: I don't spend as much time on the streets as you clearly do.
GRIFFIN: I've got to make a living. So yes, I'm going to give Anderson a roofie but I'm just going to tell him it's cough syrup, or maybe (INAUDIBLE), because he's a gangster. We'll se.
MORGAN: Do you fancy him?
GRIFFIN: I do fancy him. Not as much as you, of course. Wow. Anyway, I have a special on tomorrow night on Bravo.
MORGAN: Can you save this shameless plug until later?
GRIFFIN: Well, the name of the special is funny, "Tired Hooker."
MORGAN: Nobody wants to --
GRIFFIN: You've already implied I work on the streets. Take it back.
MORGAN: Look, it's the last segment for the shameless plug, you know that. You know how this works.
GRIFFIN: You're not going to go back to Dr. Kissinger?
MORGAN: I get what I want --
GRIFFIN: He -- that was --
MORGAN: -- and then eventually you just --
GRIFFIN: He's a ratings grabber.
MORGAN: No, it's my show, come on.
GRIFFIN: By the way, I like you asking Kissinger who he's going to endorse. Like that's going to really got -- get a lot of votes.
GRIFFIN: Yes. Team Bachmann is like, oh, please, oh you betcha golly gosh. Can Dr. Kissinger -- as if Michele Bachmann knows who Henry Kissinger is, by the way.
MORGAN: You must be sad that Herman Cain is not in the race any more, aren't you?
GRIFFIN: I'm living. Luckily the rest of those nut bags are keeping me busy. So I'm doing --
MORGAN: Who's the biggest nut bag?
GRIFFIN: Well, it changes. That's the nice thing about the Republican race this time around. So, you know, you've got your buddy Jon Huntsman who was just on. Who I believe his fortune -- fame and fortune came in the form of styrofoam packing at McDonald's.
Am I right? Isn't that what his father did? Correct?
MORGAN: Let me ask you, though, about him. Is --
GRIFFIN: That's why he should run the country. I just want to say.
MORGAN: He's just too normal to be president.
GRIFFIN: Well, I will say that out of that panel he's sort of the closest thing to a moderate. But look, this guy is in favor of civil unions but not, you know, of course, equal marriage, which is, as an ally of the LGBT-QIA community, that's what we believe that separate is not equal. So, you know, I mean, I guess out of that bunch, he's sort of moderate-ish, but no, I'm an Obama person.
MORGAN: You still are.
GRIFFIN: Why wouldn't I be?
MORGAN: I don't know. Just a few people come on and say they're disappointed. Others say he's done a tough job --
GRIFFIN: I did see, by the way, your very hard hitting interview with Mary J. Blige where -- you're asking about her political leanings.
MORGAN: It was good.
GRIFFIN: Where do you come up with this stuff? I mean seriously.
MORGAN: She had good views.
GRIFFIN: I couldn't take my eyes off her wig. I love it. I was fascinated by the wig.
MORGAN: Why shouldn't Mary J. Blige be entitled to exactly the same political opinion as you or Henry Kissinger.
GRIFFIN: She should be -- well, first of all, you're right. Those two should be mentioned in the same panel constantly.
MORGAN: Why not? They're both -- they're both (INAUDIBLE).
GRIFFIN: I want you to ask Mary J. Blige if she's turned on by Henry Kissinger, and then call me.
GRIFFIN: And then you look at your Twitter that you're so proud of.
MORGAN: I'm going to find some really embarrassing questions for you.
GRIFFIN: Good luck. I mean seriously. You've got work cut out for you. I got a pap smear on television. What are you -- how are you going to embarrass me, I'm here. What's more embarrassing than this moment for me?
MORGAN: Was that an old time --
GRIFFIN: This is the worst -- this is the lowest point --
MORGAN: It's not great for me either, trust me.
GRIFFIN: This is the worst moment of my career. I -- there's no --
GRIFFIN: Yes. I think I would be better off like signing autographs at a mall in Culver City.
MORGAN: Somebody told me you're still doing mall appearances.
GRIFFIN: I did. I did a mall gig Sunday. I'm so proud of myself.
MORGAN: But that is utterly embarrassing, isn't it?
GRIFFIN: Yes, I know, it was great.
MORGAN: How did you feel when you woke up?
GRIFFIN: Because unlike you, I'm among the people. I'm not running around with the royals like you.
MORGAN: No, unlike -- you have to be, clearly.
GRIFFIN: Yes. That's right. I've got --
MORGAN: Tell me about your mall work.
GRIFFIN: I've got a 91-year-old alcoholic mother. And let me tell you those boxes of wine don't buy themselves. So I've got to hustle at the mall, and by hustle I mean whatever it takes. Then I will.
MORGAN: Somebody tweeted me earlier saying, ask Kathy what she finds attractive in you. I don't know.
GRIFFIN: About you? I love -- this is what I think is attractive. The way that you think you can keep up with me is so cute and endearing, it's kind of warm and fuzzy, you know what I mean? Just the way you think you're getting away with stuff, I find adorable.
MORGAN: But don't you think last time I won really?
GRIFFIN: Oh, really?
MORGAN: And you lost complete control. You straddled the desk. You came at me like a sort of hungry hyena.
MORGAN: You tried to smother me in kisses. Lure me into your web --
GRIFFIN: You actually -- you were actually tweeting it while -- like my boobs were basically in your face and you're like excuse me, I had to tweet this moment right now.
MORGAN: Yes. Have you ever been with an ice cold man? I mean, look, look, at the bench. I mean, I'm in complete charge.
GRIFFIN: No, it was rough. My butt looks great, though. Look at that.
MORGAN: You do --
GRIFFIN: I still got it, Piersy. That's my crime. I still got it. May I call you Piersy?
MORGAN: You may call me whatever you like. What have you still got? GRIFFIN: I've still got a banging bikini bod which is really -- it's a burden at this point. I mean honestly, hello, there's thoughts going on up here. But you know what can I do?
MORGAN: I don't know.
GRIFFIN: It's half my living. What -- mostly I do bikini modeling, and then I do some stand-up on the side.
MORGAN: And how is your relationship with your toy boy going?
GRIFFIN: What are you talking about? What are you --
MORGAN: I think you know what I'm talking about?
GRIFFIN: Where do you -- where do you get your research and development?
MORGAN: Are you dating a younger man?
MORGAN: How much younger?
MORGAN: Like how many years?
GRIFFIN: A few.
MORGAN: Come on.
GRIFFIN: More than three.
GRIFFIN: More than four years younger.
MORGAN: Is he more than 10?
MORGAN: More than 20 years?
MORGAN: So 15 years?
GRIFFIN: You SOB.
MORGAN: Is it? Are you and this man --
GRIFFIN: I could literally --
MORGAN: Are you and this man on the picture right now having sex?
MORGAN: And he looks at least 20 years younger. Is he?
GRIFFIN: No, but --
GRIFFIN: I'm excited you think he's legal. That's exciting for me. That's a small victory for me. That means that the L.A. county sheriff is off me for another month.
MORGAN: I mean he's a good looking young guy. That's a stallion.
GRIFFIN: Wow, wipe the shock off your face for one second. OK. Sweetheart, maybe this flies in the suburb of London or wherever else you hang out, but here in the real world you're darn right he is.
MORGAN: Do you recommend toy boys?
GRIFFIN: Well, I think that there is -- I think I have a better chance of being asked out by a younger guy than a guy my age, for sure. How old are you?
MORGAN: I'm 46 but I look younger.
GRIFFIN: You -- I thought you were like 60. Ouch, that's got to hurt. Now how much Botox are you going to get because --
MORGAN: I've never had any form of surgery at all.
GRIFFIN: Oh, I can tell. I'm just suggesting --
MORGAN: Well, I can tell you have. So we both have across (INAUDIBLE).
GRIFFIN: I'll show my stitches. I have no issues about it.
MORGAN: Let's have a break.
MORGAN: Show me the stitches after the break.
Coming after the break, Kathy Griffin's plastic surgery stitches.
GRIFFIN: Not here. This is all real.
MORGAN: Put them away.
GRIFFIN: All real.
MORGAN: It's CNN. We're not Bravo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: And then I also like how the Kardashians have this way of talking. Hi, I'm a Kardashian. I'm so bored with my money. I don't know what to do with it. Start the tape. All right. So -- she said out to her friends, I would rather you hear it from me than someone else in the news. The news. Like this is the news. You know, not the debt ceiling or the presidential election, no, it's all about Kim and her divorce.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: That's from Kathy Griffin's "A Tired hooker" her fourth Bravo special this year tomorrow night. Your earlier special "50 and Not Pregnant" is unbelievably Grammy nominated for Best Comedy Album.
GRIFFIN: My fourth Grammy nomination in a row.
MORGAN: You ever won?
GRIFFIN: No. Only two women -- I can't do that, right, in this is just a fist. I wasn't going to raise one finger at all. I was just going to go -- yes, only two --
MORGAN: Do you mind just never winning or not?
GRIFFIN: No, I'm bitter. I'm a bitter, bitter loser. I'm always angry at the competition. I don't take it well. And I usually storm out of an awards ceremony.
That's why they can never show me when they show like the different boxes and the other women -- or other contestants in this case just going -- not me. I'm flipping the bird. I'm like -- I turn to whoever is with me, let's go! I don't take it well.
MORGAN: What do you think most celebrities, when they sit through these awards ceremony -- I always imagine they're just seething with fury when they lose. Aren't they?
MORGAN: Why else would you be there?
GRIFFIN: No, you're there to win. And you're livid when you don't. However, I'm also gathering material for my act. When I saw you at the pre-Emmy party, at the Jeffrey Katzenberg party -- I don't know how you got in. But apparently your plus one was able to work some magic.
MORGAN: Unlike you who spent your life on the D-list, is that right? GRIFFIN: No, it's A.
MORGAN: Pretty much double A.
GRIFFIN: But I'm funnier. But I did enjoy --
MORGAN: You call them boy toys, I keep being told on Twitter. Is that right?
GRIFFIN: I like how you're basically making me the new Madonna. I remember the Madonna boy toy belt when she had like --
MORGAN: We call them skinny boys in Britain.
GRIFFIN: Whatever you want to do.
GRIFFIN: -- Robin Williams next week or someone from "Take Five." I don't really know the British boy bands anymore.
MORGAN: Somebody here said to me, say to Kathy, my dog just barked at the TV with Kathy on it in a weird way.
GRIFFIN: Yeah. You're asking if I would have sex with a dog.
GRIFFIN: I thought you were trying to get offensive questions.
MORGAN: Somebody here said, would you date Kim Jong-un, the new leader of North Korea?
GRIFFIN: He's a little old for me. The new one, who is 27, is a little old for me, a little out of my age bracket. We don't know his age, of course. But we can change it. If he maybe was 21, I'd go for it, for sure. I like a man with power and a serious way about him.
MORGAN: That's why you're here. How much of Kathy Griffin is fake?
GRIFFIN: Do they mean my physical body or my personality.
What about the personality? What do you think? You have talked to me in real life.
MORGAN: Reasonably fake, I'd say.
GRIFFIN: You think I'm reasonably fake? You are so -- I can't believe you said that. Do you know you're on television?
GRIFFIN: You know this isn't a webcast. MORGAN: It's live television.
GRIFFIN: There are tens of people that watch this. Tens of people, night after night, in countries, I guess.
MORGAN: Tell me about your fake body.
GRIFFIN: My fake body.
MORGAN: How much have you spent looking this young?
GRIFFIN: Well, the body part is all real, although I did have lypo one time. And the fat just grew back, like a Chia Pet. Have you seen the Obama Chia Pet? It's very funny. At first I thought it was a skit. You can apparently buy a pot that looks like President Obama and then water it. And then he gets Chia hair.
You can't write that. Anyway -- and then the boobs are real.
MORGAN: -- thing you spent money on body-wise that you're most proud of?
GRIFFIN: None of it. It was kind of a waste of money actually. It didn't really work. It doesn't really take. It doesn't change your life or make you what you hope it would make you. I was supposed to turn into Jennifer Aniston.. That was the deal.
I struck a verbal deal with my plastic surgeon or the voices in my head -- I'm not sure which. And that was the deal. But no, I haven't done that for a while because it doesn't really do anything.
MORGAN: In your special, you have a number of targets. Ryan Seacrest --
GRIFFIN: Do you know her?
MORGAN: You said if Ryan gets "The Today Show, you will never be watching it because you hate him.
GRIFFIN: I didn't say that. I'm sure he can say things adorable and witty.
GRIFFIN: He must be stopped. He foisted the Kardashians on us. And now he has to pay.
MORGAN: What's wrong with the Kardashians?
GRIFFIN: Did you go to Kendall's Super Sweet 16?
GRIFFIN: What? You don't find it relatable that Kendall Kardashian Jenner gets a Range Rover with a big bow for her Super Sweet 16, and that's the day I blow my brains out? You don't think there's a coincidence.
MORGAN: Don't you admire their work ethic?
GRIFFIN: I don't think I heard you correctly, because I think you said work ethic. But I do admire Kris Jenner's attitude. I wish I had like a female pimp, because that's what I need. That's the only thing I'm missing, frankly, at this point.
MORGAN: What did you make of the extensive 72-day marriage?
GRIFFIN: That's heaven for me. Because I did do four hour-long specials in one year. And -- never been done by any comedian, male or female. But by special -- between special three and four, the whole marriage was over. So that was kind of a bonanza for comedy, all of comedy.
MORGAN: Was it a scam or do you think true love just hit a rocky path?
GRIFFIN: I love that you think they started with true love. Here's what I can tell you. I watch that show every week. Now I'm watching "Kourtney and Kim Take New York," because they keep taking different cities and markets. So I believe Kloe and Kourtney took Miami.
There's a lot of taking. It's like a land grab.
MORGAN: The mere fact we're talking about them just adds to the brand, because they rely on the --
GRIFFIN: Yes, of course. So I enjoy watching them. I enjoy their whore makeup.
MORGAN: That's a bit cruel.
GRIFFIN: I love when you try to play decent guy. I love when you have the family here. That's a big get for you. You could also get them for the opening of an envelope. So really congratulations. Nice job with the booking department. How did you ever score -- they were going between their Sears Appearance and --
MORGAN: After tonight, the booking department is the ex-booking department.
GRIFFIN: It's over, Piers.
GRIFFIN: That is it.
MORGAN: Talk to me about Demi and Ashton. You mock them in your show.
GRIFFIN: I mock everyone. That's the deal. So I -- I think those Nikon ads are a little ironic and ill timed, because we hear about his possible improprieties or infidelities. By the way, I thought it was fascinating when Chelsea Handler sat in this very chair and suggested that it was a three-way gone wrong, just hilarious to me.
MORGAN: The way she just casually dropped it into conversation.
GRIFFIN: You had to love that moment. You live for that.
MORGAN: Of course.
GRIFFIN: And you kept sort of giving her a way to maybe correct it. She was like, no, I think they were probably having three-ways. Then after a while, one of the people in the three-way didn't want to go any more. It was pretty funny.
MORGAN: Maybe it was true.
GRIFFIN: I don't know. I don't run in that posse.
MORGAN: -- incredibly attractive, but a woman of --
GRIFFIN: A certain age?
GRIFFIN: I'm all for it.
MORGAN: -- dating a much younger guy and then marrying him -- I mean, do you worry about your position?
GRIFFIN: I love that you think I have a position. Because I'm open to all positions. I'm not stuffy like you are. I'm open minded and adventurous in bed. I assume we were talking about that?
MORGAN: Why don't we talk about --
MORGAN: -- in the break. And when we come back, I want to talk to you about Jane Fonda and Cher.
GRIFFIN: Perfect. Two of my faves.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: I don't mean to upset you, to trouble or torment you when I say some things that might not make you proud. I guess I'm trying to apologize. And frankly, that's a new one for me so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Season six of your Bravo show "My Life on the D-List" ended early this year. You must miss it, don't you?
GRIFFIN: Yes, that was so much fun to do that show. There's my mom on the show, who is hilarious. And she was truly a natural. Truly proof it was an unscripted reality show, because you could not get that lady to say whatever you wanted.
You can't walk all over her the way you're doing with me right now.
MORGAN: Someone Tweeted here, ask Kathy, Seacrest, Kim Kardashian, Piers; marry one, sleep with one, drown one.
GRIFFIN: You're talking about marry, blank, kill.
MORGAN: Yes, marry, sleep, drown.
GRIFFIN: So it's you, Kim -- marry, sleep or drown. They're very specific about the type of death. OK. So I would drown you.
MORGAN: Me, Seacrest and Kim Kardashian.
GRIFFIN: I would drown you, drown Ryan Seacrest and drown Kim Kardashian. What were the options? I'm sorry. I would set you on fire. I would drown the other two. And then I would kill myself. I would actually drown myself last.
MORGAN: I'd like to drown you right now. Let's move on. A fantastic editorial in the "Hollywood Reporter" --
GRIFFIN: Which I wrote.
MORGAN: -- on aging. Exactly. Women you admire, Cher, Jane Fonda, Joan Rivers, Susan Somers, Gloria Steinem, Marlo Thomas, Gloria Vanderbilt.
MORGAN: Tell me about the cult as it's now, because I had Jane Fonda in here recently. I interviewed her.
GRIFFIN: That was a great interview.
MORGAN: Amazing interview. She looked incredible, 74 years old.
GRIFFIN: She's hot.
MORGAN: What is the secret to getting away with looking hot in your 60s, 70s?
GRIFFIN: Look, I'm not in the class with those women. Fonda was always a beauty icon, since "Barbarella." And her work is fantastic. She looks great. She's got the fitness stuff, everything.
But for me, something happened when I turned 50, where I just stopped giving a you know what. And there's something liberating about that. And I just -- I don't know. I started taking care of myself better, eating better and all that stuff.
But those women, they have a way about them that I think is so sexy and attractive. The reason I'm pals with them is because they have so much knowledge to impart. They're fascinating. And they're really fun. Every one of them is a riot and fun and funny. And they're living proof you got laugh.
MORGAN: What I liked about Jane Fonda was she was very combative.
GRIFFIN: She's very bright. She's not taking your guff.
MORGAN: No, definitely. My guff was going down quite badly for quite a while.
GRIFFIN: She's been through quite a bit.
MORGAN: Amazing life she's had.
GRIFFIN: An amazing body of work. And her work's in activism, always controversial and fearless. And I love that.
MORGAN: Who do you most admire?
GRIFFIN: I admire those chicks. I like them all. I had my 50th birthday. I call it the tale of two Glorias. I had dinner with Gloria Steinem. Then I went to an event with Gloria Vanderbilt.
I just love these women because they represent so much to me. And they're smart and vibrant and beautiful and funny. And you know, Gloria Steinem gave me this great hilarious lecture about how -- can you say vagina on CNN?
MORGAN: You just did.
GRIFFIN: It's a body part. Sanjay Gupta says it all the time. Anyway, she told me a very funny story that my vagina lining was going to get thinner and turn into rice paper, and I should be careful with a larger gentlemen. This is all covered in --
MORGAN: Where are you going with this?
GRIFFIN: This goes -- then I go to Glo Vanderbilt's house, who says no, no, no, don't worry; your vagina is fine. Then I call Suzanne Somers, and she gives me those hormone creams. And now my vagina is as thick as the Berlin Wall.
What do you got, Piersy?
MORGAN: Probably --
GRIFFIN: Are you going to tear me up?
MORGAN: What we call in Britain my P-45.
MORGAN: Is that a firearm? MORGAN: When you get fired, whatever they give you here.
GRIFFIN: Oh, a pink slip. That's what I call my vagina, the pink slip. That's not even offensive. That's like a medical, you know, teenager show.
MORGAN: You're not on a medical show.
GRIFFIN: I thought we were on Discovery. Have you seen "The Virgin Diaries?" "The Virgin Diaries" is crazy. It's a show about virgins who then kiss for first time. And it's super awkward. What do you think about Amber from "Teen Mom" going to jail today? This is in your wheelhouse.
MORGAN: I have never heard of Amber from "Teen Mom." Why would I care? Who would care?
GRIFFIN: Everyone wants --
GRIFFIN: The leader of North Korea died today. Who cares about "Teen Mom?"
GRIFFIN: Because I met one of the little chocolatiers.
MORGAN: So what?
GRIFFIN: That's why?
MORGAN: Who cares?
GRIFFIN: That's a spin-off of "Little People, Big World." They're little people who make chocolate. And I totally know them.
In your face, Morgan. Is it Morgan? You got a Twitter question for me? Let's go.
MORGAN: Let's have a look, shall we?
MORGAN: What's up with her neck?
GRIFFIN: What's with my neck?
MORGAN: No idea. Oh, you're blushing. Sorry. Nothing to worry about.
GRIFFIN: Oh maybe. I was on the cover of "Out Magazine." And they did like a vintage "Madmen" type of a look and made my neck look very swan-like. I do a lot of photo shoots, Piers.
MORGAN: Let's have another break and talk about photo shoots involving Lindsay Lohan and her naked body in "Playboy Magazine."
GRIFFIN: And my vagina, are we good? Or can we keep talking it about it? Because I can talk -- we could measure the lining. We could get a gurney.
MORGAN: Shut up, please.
MORGAN: I want to stay on air, for the next ten minutes at least.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRIFFIN: Can I be honest?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, yes. As always.
GRIFFIN: I feel like I've let the viewers down.
COOPER: How? Why?
GRIFFIN: I haven't gotten you fired. I haven't really sworn the way you know I can.
COOPER: Right. But you --
GRIFFIN: What is your address, real quick?
COOPER: You know what you've done --
GRIFFIN: What's your phone number?
COOPER: You've shown that you can do live TV with the best of them. So you don't need to resort to --
GRIFFIN: Jokes about --
COOPER: Whatever, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Kathy Griffin hosting CNN's New Year's Eve coverage with my poor unsuspecting colleague, Anderson Cooper. You're doing it again this year for the fifth time. God help the poor guy.
GRIFFIN: Did I get bleeped there or not?
MORGAN: You're always getting bleeped.
GRIFFIN: Not tonight. Tonight, I have been squeakily clean.
MORGAN: I mentioned Lindsay Lohan before the break and her "Playboy" pictures. We're going to look at those in a moment, a part of it. She's clearly watching the show, because she has been re-Tweeting me Tweeting about interviewing you and asking for embarrassing question. So we need now to have a moment of genuine interactive television.
Lindsay, I know you're watching because you're Tweeting me. So can you now Tweet a question for Kathy? And if it gets here in the next ten minutes, I'll ask it.
GRIFFIN: We'll do it.
MORGAN: Let's look at a picture of you first from "Out Magazine." Now --
GRIFFIN: OK, what's your question?
MORGAN: Nothing really. I just wanted to see it. OK. Let's move on.
GRIFFIN: Next topic.
MORGAN: Let's go to Lindsay Lohan. Not that I want to compare the pair of you.
Where's the Lindsay picture. Let's look at the Lindsay picture. I didn't want to discuss the picture of you naked, I just wanted to see it.
GRIFFIN: I understand. It speaks for itself, by the way.
MORGAN: Lindsay's coming. Don't worry.
GRIFFIN: She's driving up or what?
MORGAN: There we are. There's Lindsay. That's an amazing picture.
GRIFFIN: I have that same chair.
MORGAN: Not that I want to compare unfavorably to yours, obviously.
GRIFFIN: Of course not.
GRIFFIN: That's a great picture.
MORGAN: What do you think of Lindsay Lohan?
GRIFFIN: I love her. I think she's very talented. Obviously, as a comedian, she's providing lots of material. She's a busy, busy girl, not afraid of controversy. I've met her, very nice girl, very bright girl.
MORGAN: I want her to come on the show. I think she'd be really good.
GRIFFIN: Wow. This is the second time you have done this. Last time I was on this crap-fest, you spent the whole show trying to book the next show. I don't know -- how can I help you get off the desk?
MORGAN: Because the only possibly useful thing about you is you are well connected.
GRIFFIN: Very well connected.
MORGAN: You know these people. So I'm happy to use you.
GRIFFIN: How can I be in the Piers Morgan business?
MORGAN: Can you get me Cher?
GRIFFIN: I'm sorry. I took a short nap. You're fascinating. Did you -- did I hear you correctly? Did you come out during the commercial break?
GRIFFIN: Are you an openly gay man?
GRIFFIN: Good for you. I think it's good. You should stay on with your community.
MORGAN: I'm not even a secretly gay man.
GRIFFIN: Oh, yawn. Those are the most fun.
GRIFFIN: Yes. Who is the most interesting person that you have talked to on this show that surprised you? Who turned out to be surprisingly interesting in the chair?
MORGAN: Surprisingly interesting. Well, present company accepted, he says laughably.
GRIFFIN: First of all, am I really the first person to ask you this question? Because you seem thrown. Get it together. Time's awasting. You're on TV.
MORGAN: Chaz Bono.
MORGAN: Now that you mention it. I was surprised by that interview.
GRIFFIN: OK. MORGAN: I liked him. I found him very inspiring. I thought he was a very interesting, intelligent and inspiring young man, brave, courageous.
MORGAN: I liked him.
GRIFFIN: Is that your way of saying you're going to get some sort of surgery?
MORGAN: Transgender surgery? I doubt it.
GRIFFIN: I think you'd be a pretty, pretty lady.
MORGAN: No, you don't.
GRIFFIN: Well, I think with some work, you could. Talk to your good friends the Kardashians, who you're so besties with.
MORGAN: Chaz is single, apparently.
GRIFFIN: What? I thought Chaz was engaged.
MORGAN: That's what I heard.
GRIFFIN: Wow, you're on top of the pop culture.
MORGAN: Apparently I'm all over it.
GRIFFIN: You really should see my standup.
MORGAN: It's over, the engagement.
GRIFFIN: Then I'll get off the "Teen Mom" beat and get right on the Chaz Bono beat.
MORGAN: He's become a typical man, by the sound of it.
GRIFFIN: I understand. A typical man. Oh, that's just great. You're really helping the man's movement, which is suffering.
MORGAN: Talk about Hollywood for a moment.
GRIFFIN: You know, I'm fascinated by? You literally refuse to not only plug one single thing that I'm doing or have coming out --
MORGAN: I don't care what you're doing.
GRIFFIN: You actually won't acknowledge that I'm a professional comedian on television.
MORGAN: Nobody cares.
GRIFFIN: I -- that is not true. And you --
MORGAN: -- because another guest pulled out. Let's be honest.
GRIFFIN: Who pulled out? You wanted Kissinger for the hour?
GRIFFIN: I understand. He was really keeping up with you.
MORGAN: He said two segments and that was --
GRIFFIN: You've got me for seven. I'm actually going to stay after you go home.
MORGAN: I love having you as a guest. But don't ever kid yourself. It's because we couldn't get somebody better, because we couldn't.
MORGAN: We couldn't. That's the point.
GRIFFIN: But who, though?
MORGAN: Could be better than you?
MORGAN: Right now, Jack Nicholson.
GRIFFIN: You have like a bizarre, like swim fan stalker thing with him.
MORGAN: No, I really want to interview Jack Nicholson.
GRIFFIN: But why on Earth would he ever sit down with you?
MORGAN: Because he has given no television interview in 40 years.
GRIFFIN: So he's going to start with Piers because --
MORGAN: Why shouldn't he?
GRIFFIN: What do you bring to the table, Morgan?
MORGAN: I'm a huge fan.
GRIFFIN: That's good for unique.
MORGAN: I met him once in England.
GRIFFIN: He forgot.
MORGAN: Probably doesn't remember it as well as I do.
GRIFFIN: What else do you want to know about my body of work. I'm here to educate you about the Kathy Griffin enterprise.
MORGAN: I tell you what, let's have another break.
GRIFFIN: You with the breaks. I think you're making it up at this point.
MORGAN: I want to see if Lindsay has Tweeted me. I want to see if I can avoid letting you plug any of your shameless, pointless stuff.
GRIFFIN: Just go to my website or something, people.
MORGAN: I'm back with my absurd guest, Kathy Griffin.
GRIFFIN: Energy. You're like this.
GRIFFIN: Tired hooker tomorrow night on Bravo, my special. Go to my website.
MORGAN: Why should anybody watch it?
GRIFFIN: It's very funny. I don't think everyone should. I don't think Ryan Seacrest should watch it. It doesn't go his way.
MORGAN: Can I ask you a few snappy questions?
MORGAN: How many times have you been properly in love?
GRIFFIN: You are insane. You are -- you have lost your --
GRIFFIN: You are not allowed to ask me that question, because that's the question in my act when I make fun of -- I didn't mean to reveal that tonight7.
MORGAN: How many times?
GRIFFIN: Have I properly been in love.
GRIFFIN: Like 2,000. MORGAN: OK. What's -- pointless to ask somebody who has made a program about hookers that question.
Let's move on.
MORGAN: If I could give you five minutes to live --
GRIFFIN: First of all, I like that you are shaking with anger because Lindsay Lohan has not Tweeted you back.
MORGAN: I'm not happy about it.
GRIFFIN: I know. You barely can engage --
MORGAN: She's following me and she's re-Tweeting me.
GRIFFIN: She also could literally be following you. So be careful.
MORGAN: If I could give you five minutes to live, and you could relive any moment of your life, what would it be?
GRIFFIN: It would -- I would relive the first five minutes of this show. And here's why. I would have on running shoes, so I could run faster away. And I would literally sit in Nancy Grace's lap until she made it all better.
MORGAN: Be serious.
GRIFFIN: She's a real --
MORGAN: Be serious, five minutes, the best moment of your life.
GRIFFIN: It's going to be when Lindsay Lohan Tweets you. It's going to be the greatest moment of my life.
MORGAN: Don't be flippant. I'm trying to get you to be serious.
GRIFFIN: It doesn't happen like that. I love what I do.
GRIFFIN: I don't know, probably a great moment on stage, like a -- Carnegie Hall, the audience is laughing, and I'm making people laugh. How about that?
MORGAN: Is there a moment you can remember?
GRIFFIN: You are really -- where do they teach you this?
GRIFFIN: OK. I mean, a moment, you know, I --
MORGAN: One you just -- if you could relive it now.
GRIFFIN: I've had some really good -- like a good sandwich. Have you ever had a good Monte Cristo Sandwich?
MORGAN: Why are you never serious?
GRIFFIN: No, I'm just not serious with you.
GRIFFIN: I have trust issues. Here's what I love, the uncomfortable silence.
MORGAN: I tell you what, let's just sit here.
GRIFFIN: How can you start with --
GRIFFIN: then you don't tell me -- I tell you what, and then you don't tell me --
MORGAN: If you refuse to take my questions seriously, I'm not going to ask you any.
GRIFFIN: Did you just almost bang the table in a display of anger.
MORGAN: Let's just have an uncomfortable silence.
GRIFFIN: I'm going to ask myself the questions. Is CNN giving you carte branch? Is there a seven second delay? OK, they're actually not -- they're not technically giving me carte blanche. But there's not really a delay like they think there is.
So I'm going to -- there's a C-word I'm not supposed to say. I think it's actually in my contract that if I don't -- if I can just not say the C-word, I get a check.
MORGAN: Sanjay Gupta is standing in for "AC 360" with Anderson Cooper.