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Little Girl Ayla Reynolds Missing; Lovely Ladies, Murderous Mysteries
Aired December 21, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.
A little girl vanishes. Her mom is in rehab and her dad says he has no clue what happened.
Then, the year of the femme fatale. Casey Anthony, Foxy Knoxy, Robyn Gardner.
And 2011 shockers. Kim`s cold feet, Lindsay`s low points, and Sheen winning moment.
Plus, winning by losing. "The Biggest Loser," right here, talking holiday weight gains.
Let`s get started.
Tonight, the father of (ph) missing Maine toddler speaks publicly for the first time since she disappeared. Twenty-four-year-old Justin DiPietro says, quote, "I have no idea what happened to my daughter." Twenty-month- old Ayla Reynolds was reported missing on Saturday. Watch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The FBI is heading up an expanded search in Maine for a missing toddler, last seen five days ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ayla`s dad says he put her to bed Friday night and that she was gone the next morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were no obvious signs of forced entry into the home. It is very rare to have a stranger abduction from a child`s bedroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ayla`s father released a statement saying this, quote, "I have no idea what happened to Ayla or who is responsible. I will not make accusations."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The day before this little girl mysteriously vanishes into thin air, the mother files to get sole custody.
TRISTA REYNOLDS, AYLA REYNOLDS` MOTHER: I want to pick her up and I want to hold her and I just want to tell her that she`s going to be OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Baby Ayla was recently placed in her father`s care while her mother was in rehab, in treatment, apparently for substance abuse. Could be some sort of connection there?
Police have searched the home and removed two vehicles. Cops say several adults were inside Ayla`s dad`s house on Friday night, but they have not named any suspects. The child is wearing a soft cast on her arm and this green one-piece pajamas, you see it alongside me there. Dad says - it says "Daddy`s Princess" on the front of these pajamas.
Attorney Mike Eiglarsh is here and HLN`s Jane Velez-Mitchell, who has been covering this story. Jane, what can you tell us?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, HLN`S "ISSUES": Well, it`s bizarre, because the father says, oh, he put the child to sleep at 8:00 that night, and then approximately 12 hours later, oh, the child`s missing.
Now, first of all, my question is, who leaves a 20-month-old child alone overnight for 12 hours without checking on the child? I was just with a man last night who has a little baby, he was checking on her every 15, 20 minutes. So there`s some concern about that.
Also, a neighbor has said she heard a loud noise at approximately 3:00 in the morning. Another neighbor reportedly heard some kind of car show up, and there are no signs of forced entry, even though there are several people in the house at the time.
So how could the child vanish without anybody hearing anything? It certainly doesn`t add up and there are a lot of unanswered questions.
PINSKY: And Jane, one thing I`ve not heard reported is, apparently - actually, I have a friend that lives in this neighborhood, and she was telling me this is a neighborhood where nothing like this ever happens, and it`s especially astonishing in that particular environment.
And so, it seems like, you know, there`s no element that would be in there, under usual circumstances, that would carry on something like this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I never say never. We`ve seen tragic cases like the case of Jessica Lunsford, a child who was taken from her bed while she was sleeping. Remember the Elizabeth Smart case?
It does happen. It`s extremely rare, but usually there is some sign of entry or some acknowledgement that perhaps a door was left open. It can happen, but, again, it is certainly the exception, not the rule.
PINSKY: Right. Now Ayla`s mom, who is in treatment, as I said, for substance abuse is sure Ayla`s dad knows what happened to her daughter. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REYNOLDS: Somebody in his family or him himself has done something with Ayla. And if he has, all he`s got to do is come out and just say it. I mean, just come out and talk - talk to me. Just tell me where she is because I want to know where she is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jane, two questions for you before I go to Mark. One, it must be extremely difficult to try to get and embrace recovery when something like this hanging over your head. And two, do you think her substance history, and maybe the people from whom she was procuring drugs has something to do with this?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s always possible. When you are a drug addict or an alcoholic, and I believe she said that she was recovering from alcohol abuse, you can have unsavory people enter your life.
However, I do applaud her for having gone into rehab. And I think it`s unfortunate that she was essentially punished for having her child taken away from her while she was in rehab. She left the child with her sister and apparently, also, her mother was watching the child, and then the father, the biological father moves in and takes advantage of the fact that she`s in rehab and takes the child with apparently the assistance of child services.
Now, again, I want to point out that authorities are saying they have absolutely no suspects in this case.
PINSKY: OK. And I want to point out, too, that it is extraordinary that she has not just gone to treatment, but stayed in treatment with something like this hanging over their heads - her head that is. Addicts when they get into treatment are always looking for a reason to leave treatment. I mean, even the ones that are motivated, if you give them a reason to leave and this would have been a great reason to leave. Again, I applaud the mom for staying and hanging in with her treatment.
Now, the mom thinks her daughter might have been missing even before her daughter reported to police. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REYNOLDS: I think maybe he did - he knows where she is. And I sometimes think that like or now maybe, like, you know, did it get a little rough for him? He`s refused to send me a picture. He`s refused to let me talk to her.
So now I`m starting to think, like, has she been missing for a little bit and he`s just now doing something about it, or did she really go missing Friday?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Mark, it gets more and more ominous as we learn more about the story. In fact, my head`s starting to spin as I - as I hear the various elements coming together. What do you make of this?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first, the only good thing about this whole story is apparently both the father and the mother who`s in rehab are cooperating, which means they`re talking at length to law enforcement. And these veteran trained officers can discern whether they`re telling the truth right away. So hopefully they`re building their case, they`re getting leads either to implicate either one of them or to find out what happened.
The other thing that I find suspect, and I`m not pointing my finger at anyone, but these are the facts. Under the father`s watch, the daughter broke her arm and apparently there were mysterious bruises that appeared on the daughter. I`m sure law enforcement are, you know, kind of keying in on those facts as well.
PINSKY: Yes. And as a father, Mark, you`ll back me up on this, I am - I don`t know what - I have strong feelings about this gentleman. Whether he has some direct responsibility or not, the kind of fathering that seems to be going on here, I agree with Jane, and Mark, I`m sure you agree with me, is distressing. That`s the kindest word I could use, right?
EIGLARSH: I think that that`s a fair comment to make. And I`m sure that law enforcement will find out every single move that he made and they probably have some strong feelings about what he did or didn`t do as well.
PINSKY: Jane, are there elements of this story we need to look out for going forward?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m wondering why the father is issuing a statement, which is a written statement he apparently handed to police, who then released it to the media. Usually when a child goes missing, both parents are out there begging, pleading, screaming, saying, please, if you know anything, bring them back. So it`s very interesting that the father has not appeared, to our knowledge, to say anything publicly on camera.
PINSKY: Well, thank you, guys. Thank you, Jane. Thank you, Mark. This is a story that we will be following.
And when we come back, I`ll be coming back with the femme fatales of 2011. I`m wondering, and I hope you`ll wonder with me, what is it about beautiful young women, mystery, and murder and why we get so focused on it and why we reserve a special aggression for young women as well. We`ll discuss it after the break.
PINSKY: Casey Anthony. Remember - you may not have heard of her. I don`t know if you remember her or not? She was acquitted and outcast.
Remember Amanda Knox? Exonerated and repatriated.
Robyn Gardner vanished in Aruba. The prime suspect ultimately released. Almost a replay of the Natalee Holloway case.
2011 was marked by a group of beautiful women caught in scandal, murder, and mystery. Let`s take a look back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As to the charge of first-degree murder, verdict as to count one. We the jury find the defendant not guilty. Verdict as to count two, we the jury find the defendant not guilty. As to the charge of aggravated manslaughter of a child, verdict as to count three, we the jury find the defendant not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just let an obvious baby killer out of jail.
WOMEN: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They honestly let her just walk out and let everyone see it. I just thought it was unjust.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gary Giordano, he is the American that`s now in custody. He insists that he and Robyn Gardner were snorkeling late in the afternoon. And then at one point they became separated, he came ashore and she apparently did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Giordano was never formally charged but was held in an Aruban jail for the last four months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were 100 yards from a scuba diving store.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So Amanda is free.
AMANDA KNOX, ACQUITTED IN THE KILLING MEREDITH KERCHER: Thank you to everyone who has believed in me, who has defended me, who has supported my family.
PINSKY: Anthony, Knox, Gardner. And as we talked about on Monday, Jodie Arias is, you know, again, attractive young woman. We are fascinated by murder, mystery and - and the fact that at the center is of a beautiful young woman.
Back with me, Criminal Defense Attorney Mike Eiglarsh; and joining the discussion, Attorney Lisa Bloom, author of "Think"; and former Los Angeles prosecutor Loni Coombs is here.
Mark, why do you think we are so fascinated by these stories that at the center is a beautiful woman?
EIGLARSH: Well, first and foremost, you know, not from me, but - but most people love to see beautiful people. And when beautiful people do things that might be deemed to be naughty, they love to follow it, they love to live vicariously through them.
And also, I think that people love to learn things. And through the Casey Anthony case, Amanda Knox, all these cases, we learned. We learned about the criminal justice system. You and I learned together over the year. We learn that truth isn`t necessarily what is sought after in the criminal justice system. What is it about is the burden of proof and whether prosecutors can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. So it`s about learning things. And through these cases, we learned an awful lot.
PINSKY: Well, Mark, I appreciate that. And that is, of course, what my goal is in following these cases. But as I recall, you knew that but educated me about that and gave me G.I. problems as a result. Isn`t that how it went down?
EIGLARSH: Well, listen. I always carry this when I`m on your show, just in case -
PINSKY: Thank you.
EIGLARSH: -- because many of the stories make us both sick, Drew. Yes.
PINSKY: I appreciate that. But, OK, so women at the center of these stories. If you look at human history, women have always had a special place for our envy and aggression. Particularly women who have used their sexuality or beauty in any way, we are, as a society, and I mean human - through human history, not just western society, we can be ruthless.
Is that that same impulse again, that we`re acting out here through these cases that get high profile in the justice system, Lisa?
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY, THEBLOOMFIRM.COM: Well, you know, it could be. I call these - some of these cases missing pretty, white woman stories. And I don`t mean that in any kind of hostile way to these poor victims who are missing.
But I think our media misses a lot of big stories involving people of color, boys, people who are not attractive. And it`s partly the media`s fault and it`s partly the consumers` fault because people don`t tend to watch great stories about those people. They`re just as important.
PINSKY: But of course, the media wouldn`t - wouldn`t do this if the consumer would respond to it differently -
PINSKY: So it`s really about us as consumers.
BLOOM: And that`s what I wrote on my book about is trying to get people as consumers to click and log on and watch program that have kind of the serious fare, that cover, for example, stories of missing Latino children, which very rarely get covered, even though many of them are missing on a daily basis. They just don`t get covered. And they don`t get the sweeping cover, these stories get day to day to day in a 24/7 coverage.
LONI COOMBS, FMR. LOS ANGELES PROSECUTOR: And Robyn Gardner is a perfect example of that. There`s so much coverage of this beautiful, blond woman. She disappeared and people are so outraged that it hasn`t been solved, but there are so many missing people out there, children, women, men, on a daily basis that never get mentioned that people never know about. It`s a very common occurrence.
PINSKY: Now, while I agree 100 percent with you guys, I`m going to ask you to scratch even a little deeper, which is what I was asking for which is what is it about us and all of us that a young woman, a pretty, young woman, and again, remember, all these stories, there was a lot of question about their sexuality and their behavior and stuff.
Why are we - and look at what we do to the Lindsay Lohans of the world, by the way. Why are we ruthless in tearing these people down? Think about it. We say, beware if you`re one of those people. There`s Casey Anthony, for instance. We, as a society, and I don`t mean - I mean, I always hate when people say "as a society." Us, as people, we have a special aggression for that.
BLOOM: And I talk about this as well in my book. It`s called the halo effect. And you know about the halo effect, which is essentially we tend to believe that beautiful people are good people. Children as young as 2 or 3 years old, when they`re shown a picture of a beautiful woman -
PINSKY: And more likely to look at.
BLOOM: -- they think she`s nice. They think she`s honest. They think she`s a credible person, right? Looks tell us nothing about what a person`s like on the inside, but we all tend to assume that. Many of us even if we don`t think we do, we do.
PINSKY: So is it that - is it that the disappointment that they let us down?
BLOOM: And there is something like Casey Anthony who turns out to look like somebody who killed her daughter, she`s now been acquitted of that, I mean, we`re just shocked because it doesn`t correspond with what we assume based on what somebody looks like.
COOMBS: And it`s not just beauty, it`s women too. We hold women to a different standard.
PINSKY: We - women do or men do?
PINSKY: Both do. OK.
COOMBS: Both men and women. You know, something that a woman does, oh, that`s salacious. Whereas a guy does it, ah, just a guy. You know, boys will be boys.
COOMBS: And honestly the percentage of women defendants is much lower than men. So when there`s a woman who`s caught doing something bad, we are all riveted by it.
PINSKY: Mark, do you want to ring in on this discussion?
EIGLARSH: I think that we look at a Casey Anthony or the latest stories we`ve been covering like, well, wait a second, that seems inconsistent with what we`re looking at, in terms of the shell that God gave that person. And I don`t know, is that judgmental? I think so.
But that`s just - I don`t know. I think that`s how we`ve been - we`ve been raised, somehow, to the look at a shell and make a determination and be judgmental. And I think a lot of people avoid looking at their own defects in character, because they`re pointing their finger at somebody else and they`re judging them.
EIGLARSH: And I think that perhaps -
PINSKY: Yes, I think that is - Mark, I think while I agree with everything this panel has said so far, I think you`re on to something there. I think we like elevating people and then we like tearing them down, because it makes us galvanize together as a group, against that one, and makes us feel better about our own shortcomings. I agree with you.
Now, Amanda Knox, move to her, she spent more than three years in an Italian jail, was initially convicted of murdering her roommate, Meredith Kercher. But in October, a jury overturned her conviction and she flew home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KNOX: Thank you to everyone who has believed in me, who has defended me, who has supported my family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, I - I personally think that was a miscarriage of justice, but the question I have for all three of you is, why do you think there was such a different perception of her, Amanda, by the European media as opposed to the American media? Anybody who want to ring in on that?
COOMBS: Well, she was an outsider there. She was easy, a target to vilify. They had these pictures of her kissing her boyfriend right after, which looked very strange. And they wanted somebody to go after. They wanted somebody they could attack and go after in the media with this media frenzy.
By the time she came here to America, she`d been vindicated. And we all related to her as one of our own. This was, but for the grace of God, our daughter or son who might be abroad and get caught up in something like this.
PINSKY: And let me propose something else. Maybe, again, her - again, her sexual behaviors were what were sort of being used and justified as a reason we can`t trust this crazy woman.
COOMBS: Right, right.
PINSKY: And here, that was much more normative behavior.
BLOOM: That`s right. And you know what else? Villains are inherently more interesting. Villains sell tabloids. And the tabloids in Europe are huge, even bigger than the tabloids here, especially in the U.K., right, where the victim was from.
PINSKY: Yes. Right.
BLOOM: So if we make her out to be a villain, she`s this evil American with a sweet face who`s engaged in these disgusting, you know, sexual acts and murder, ultimately, it`s going to sell more papers. And I think that`s - it`s all about economics. Find the money, Drew.
PINSKY: Mark, last comment. Go ahead.
EIGLARSH: I want to ring in on this. Number one, a baby wasn`t killed, and that`s a good thing when you`re a defendant. Obviously, worked against Casey.
But the other thing is, all the stuff that they had on Casey pre-trial that we saw, it was - most of us who had condemned her before the trial ever began, not the same thing with Amanda Knox.
PINSKY: Yes, guys, thank you. And my all-star panel will return for a look at the most bizarre celebrity stories of 2011.
Next, you tell us, which stories meant the most to you this year. Stay with us.
PINSKY: Well, now as we approach the end of the year, we have asked you, our viewers, which topics on our program meant the most to you? And we did receive an incredible amount of feedback, so we have just phone calls tonight. Let`s get to the phones.
Laura in Texas. Go ahead.
LAURA, COLLEGE STATION, TEXAS (via telephone): Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hey, Laura.
LAURA: I wanted to tell you that I liked your analysis of the Casey Anthony trial and its aftermath.
PINSKY: Thank you.
LAURA: It was very difficult to decipher Casey`s behavior and you made great observations about her personality. And I also wanted to say that I liked the rapport between you and Attorney Mike Eiglarsh. You both complement each other very well.
PINSKY: Well, first of all, thanks, Laura. I like Mark, too. But most importantly, he is the man crush of my producer, Burt Debrow. Burt, I hope your - I hope your wife, this isn`t too big of a blow for her to find this out in this way.
But the truth, you know, and as far as Casey Anthony, you know, I`ve had a lot of time to think about it since that case, and I`m increasingly convinced that there`s something neurologically wrong with poor Casey, and we do hope she gets help for that.
You know, we were trying to collect evidence during the course of that trial, about the trial itself and where we thought it was going, but I think poor Casey Anthony has got some big, big problems.
Abby in Florida, go ahead.
ABBY, FORT LAUDERDALE, FLORIDA (via telephone): Hi, Dr. Drew. I just wanted to say I love when you talk about drug addiction and you bring matters on the show to discuss. You talked a lot about that during the Conrad Murray trial, and as a recovering addict, I feel addiction does not get talked about enough, and it should be.
So I just wanted to thank you, Dr. Drew, for bringing the awareness and just keep the useful information coming.
PINSKY: Thanks, Abby. And I do think addiction is really the - particularly pharmaceutical drug addiction, you`ve heard me pounding on over the year, is sort of the problem of our time - the medical problem of our time and that there is a treatment and abstinence is what people should be aiming for. And I`ve seen these glorious recoveries.
And you`ve seen some of those people on our program. I want to share that to give hope for those people who are suffering with this thing and to motivate them to get to it, to get to recovery.
Katherine, California, go ahead.
KATHERINE, STA. CLARA, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Katherine.
KATHERINE: I just wanted to say that I`ve watched all of your shows thus far, and I have to say that the most gripping and memorable shows for me were the episodes in which you interviewed Octomom. I could feel her anxiety exuding from my television and almost felt the need for therapy after watching, but I appreciate your compassion and tenderness towards her. I think it was riveting television.
PINSKY: Thanks, Katherine. And I - I don`t know if you`re aware, but my daytime program, "Life Changers," we actually went out and really tried to help her. And if you saw her this - we had her recently on the program, she`s a lot better. She`s a lot better. And we really do wish her the best.
She is a mom struggling and there are 14 kids involved with this. Don`t ever forget that. She`s not a cartoon character. She`s a woman, got herself in a bad situation, but there are 15 lives, including hers, that are in big trouble. And we`ve got to, you know, keep pulling for them.
Carlton of Colorado, go ahead.
CARLTON, COLORADO SPRINGS, COLORADO (via telephone): Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hey, Carlton.
CARLTON: I just called to tell you that you have excellent coverage on all of your topics.
PINSKY: Thank you.
CARLTON: But the coverage that`s helped me the most is the Penn State sex abuse scandal. Being a victim of sexual abuse myself, I`ve felt alone all these years until now. Just making people aware of sexual abuse has prompted more people to listen to me, and therefore, I`ve tried to obtain the help that I needed. So, thank you, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Well, thank you, Carlton. And that`s the topic, again, that`s the other big problem of our time is trauma and we will continue to dig into that and bring great experts for you. So thank you for that.
Remember to check out HLN`s Top 10 and our Must-See, Must-Share stories at HLNTV.com.
Next, we`ll take a look back at some of the most shocking moments of 2011 with my expert panel. Join me again. You don`t want to miss it. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Celebrity shockers 2011. Lindsay`s low points, Kim`s cold feet, the Kardashian wedding collapse, and the dangerous Sheen scene.
And later, winning through losing. Think you have a hard time keeping the weight of during the holidays? I`m talking about that with the "Biggest Loser" winner, John Rhode, right here. He lost hundreds of pounds and gained a fortune.
LINDA, ALTOONA: I`m just really concerned about the fact that they found these arsenic levels in the juices, and I`m just wondering what your opinion is on this and, you know, maybe how much I should consume or should I just stop drinking the juices altogether.
PINSKY (on-camera): Linda, you`re making me crazy, honey. Follow your doctor`s orders. We`re talking about the differences of five parts per billion in what`s acceptable versus what they`re finding in these juices. Go ahead and drink the juices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That`s what I`m saying. Drink the juice. That was, I guess, one of the more memorable moments of 2011. Moms, for the time being, please don`t stop giving your kids apple juice or grape juice. These are issues to be for the public health to focus on, but for those of us who are consumers, to go ahead and do what we do.
It`s that time of year when we look back in the last 12 months shaking our head and asking, do that really happened? Now, before the year is gone, we`re taking one more look at the most talked about stories of 2011.
Joining me to discuss this, Attorney Mike Eiglarsh, senior editor, radaronline.com, Dylan Howard, former prosecutor, Loni Combs, and Attorney Lisa Bloom, author of "Think," nominated for Best Non-Fiction Book -- or thank you. Congratulations, Lisa.
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY/AUTHOR: Thank you.
PINSKY: Let`s start with the winningest moment of year. Of course, I`m talking about -- watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: Its soul is inhabited by the ghost of Betty, and now, who murder people and eat trolls with their razor fangs. I`m smoking a cigarette and drinking something I won`t reveal, unless, they pay me! Everybody wins!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Did he really win, Dylan?
DYLAN HOWARD, SR. EDITOR, RADARONLINE.COM: I think it`s a tie, Dr. Drew. He walks away from Warner Brothers and CBS TV with a golden parachute for ultimately his bad behavior, some $25 million, I`m told. He has a new TV show. He has a chance to rebuild his career, but we have never seen a blow-up, a disaster from a celebrity the way we did with Charlie Sheen.
Never before has a celebrity opened his doors to the media the way he did. And we watched him before our very own eyes.
PINSKY: In the middle of a crisis. In the middle of a mental health crisis.
HOWARD: And to shun his advisers, his closest advisers, and take his own counsel. And of course, we saw where that ended up, but the interesting thing for me was we heard last week from Chuck Lorrie, the EP of "Two and a Half Men," and he said for the very first time that the reason Charlie Sheen was fired was because there were violent incidents on set.
Charlie hasn`t addressed that, and there was cocaine use. So, clearly, there were two very serious issues which ultimately forced the TV exec`s hands.
PINSKY: One of the things that bugs me, ladies, to address this, if you will. Did the public learn about mental health from this? I mean, here`s a guy, addiction and manic state. Do you think people took that home? The understanding --
BLOOM: No, I don`t. I think, you know, I was in an airport when the video that you just showed was broadcast, and everyone was clustered around it, watching it, laughing, and cheering and high-fiving each other. You know, we love sort of crazy, manic behavior, without recognizing that it really is a form of mental illness, and it needs our compassion.
PINSKY: He can break down in violence as we`re hearing it did, and people kill themselves in manic states more likely in their present (ph) case.
LONI COOMBS, FMR. LOS ANGELES PROSECUTOR: I actually think some people had their eyes open to actually see it. You can hear about it. You can talk about it when you actually see it and then having people like you talk about it. I think it might actually help some people.
PINSKY: I hope it does. And I hear he`s doing better, Dylan.
HOWARD: I traded text messages with him yesterday, actually. I didn`t ask him whether or not he was sober, but he made an insinuation dating back to the infamous incident for radaronline where he allowed us to test his urine which came back clean for a number of drugs. And he made an insinuation again that we could test him and he would be clean.
PINSKY: That`s great. That`s good news.
COOMBS: I just thought somebody finally said, enough is enough, right? I mean, some of the celebrities have been acting out, and finally, somebody said, you know what, the money`s not worth it. We`re going to stop him and say no more.
BLOOM: What about his constant violence against women? I mean, repeatedly over the years, over and over again, which --
COOMBS: Oh, it`s Charlie Sheen, you know?
PINSKY: Why does he get a pass? Why does he get a pass? This is back to that same issue we were talking about the last segment that you guys were on where women have a special -- we have special aggression towards women, and men, we give them a pass if they seem like nice guys.
HOWARD: Well, I don`t think Charlie Sheen necessarily got a pass. He lost his $2 million job.
PINSKY: But here`s a deal. Let`s just -- to end -- to put a little bow around his year. I expected his urine to be negative when you tested him, because what we saw -- my patients, my stimulant patients, cocaine and speed patients, when they get into that manic state, they don`t want to use right then, because they`re high all the time.
And actually, they`re using peers get jealous of them because they don`t have to use to get the high, but then once they come down, that`s when they start using again. Now, it seems to me, he`s doing a lot better. I actually do wish him the best.
Another shocking moment or not so shocking from this year, Lindsay Lohan back in court, working at the morgue, posing for "Playboy". Watch this.
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I`m not taking this as a joke. It`s my life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am revoking her probation. I am also setting jail at $100,000 to a minimum of 16 hours at the morgue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Lisa, over, under that she stays out of jail in 2012?
BLOOM: Well, you know, as you know, I know her father well. I represented him. I know the family a little bit. Certainly, we wish her the best. We hope for the best for her and for everyone who`s got substance abuse problems. But the odds are not good.
As you know, the relapses are constant. They keep on coming. She`s got to really make a commitment to having a different kind of life than she`s been leading.
PINSKY: That is correct. Addicts believe they can maintain the party, continue the party and not use. It doesn`t work like that.
PINSKY: Loni, was the justice system serve her well this year?
COOMBS: You know, actually, baby steps. She`s actually learning to start to follow the rules a little bit. I give a lot of credit to the judge, Judge Stephanie Satner. I have appeared in front of her to prosecute cases, and she has this very firm, yet, sort of motherly approach, and I think, for some reason, it`s resonated with Lindsay Lohan, and she`s actually --
BLOOM: Loni, the judge is good, but what is the system telling her when she goes in supposedly for a month and she gets out in two hours?
COOMBS: Well, but that`s not necessarily the judge`s fault. That is our whole criminal justice system in California. I mean, that`s a bigger issue.
PINSKY: Well, it`s OK right now. So far, so good. Mark, would she have been treated differently in Florida, do you think? I mean, California, we got a problem. We have no room for criminals.
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, yes. She would have been in a place where she could possibly hit rock bottom and spend time with herself and then realize, OK, now it`s time to get well. You know, we laugh about her and even Charlie Sheen, but what I see is something that`s very sad. Both of them are addicts.
And as you can testify to, one of three things is going to happen. They`re either going to get well, they`re going to wind up in jail, or they`re going to wind up dead. It doesn`t look like they`re on their way to getting well. They haven`t changed people, places, or things. They`re not working a 12-step program. I`m very concerned about both of them.
PINSKY: Yes. I agree with you, mark. We don`t know about Charlie. Maybe he is. Maybe he is, because he`s apparently got --
EIGLARSH: Come on!
PINSKY: OK. Well, I`m thinking the best. Probably, the biggest story -- one of the biggest stories, the marriage and divorce, public backlash with everyone or from everyone who was keeping up with the Kardashians. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The year`s biggest celebrity wedding was the talk of the tabloids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you get your invitation to the wedding?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Reality star, Kim Kardashian and NBA player, Kris Humphries, exchanged vows in an over the top ceremony, but filed for divorce 72 days later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many of you probably tuned in to see what happened during Kim`s 72-day marriage to Kris Humphries.
KIM KARDASHIAN, REALITY STAR: You`re (EXPLETIVE DELETED). My whole toe is (EXPLETIVE DELETED) broke in half.
PINSKY: What you`re seeing there is domestic violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: And indeed, that`s what that was. That`s domestic violence. But, Dylan, in spite of the backlash, in spite of the -- I`m concerned about what it`s done to the institution of marriage, personally, but that`s my thing. But in spite of all of this, their brand continues to thrive.
HOWARD: Yes, it the does. But I think it`s been tarnished significantly --
PINSKY: I`m going to go to that store in Las Vegas and I`m going to see who`s in that store buying -- did you tell me $10 bottles of water?
HOWARD: I saw a report this week, up to this store in Calabasas, K- Dash, I think it`s called, a $10 bottle of water. Not golden water, not mineral water, not sparkling water. $10 of plain, probably tap water, and people were buying it. Their brand has suffered as a result of the 72-day marriage.
People have been exposed to the fact that everything in their life is scripted and that television show, for want of a better deal, they wanted that marriage. It became a K story line. I think we`ve woken up to that, for those that weren`t awake to it, and I think there`s going to be some serious issues for them going forward. Their star is not shining as brightly as it was at the start of the year.
BLOOM: Ratings just as high --
HOWARD: They are.
PINSKY: The ratings are up.
PINSKY: Yes. I got to go to break, guys. Again, let`s not blame the Kardashians, let`s blame us. We are consuming this crap, OK? Well, I`m just saying. I`m just saying. I`ve got to go to break. Thank you, Mark, Dylan, Loni, and Lisa. Happy holidays to you, guys, of course, and all of you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Only one of you will become the biggest loser and win a quarter of a million dollars. John, it`s time for you to step on that scale. In order to beat --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was John Rhode, just last week on NBC`s hit reality show, "the Biggest Loser." At the start, John weighed 445 pounds. If you missed the winning moment, here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god, John, Congratulations. You`ve done it! You are "The Biggest Loser"! Here`s the confetti.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John, get down here. You`ve got to celebrate!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It`s a very timely topic as we all try to stay away from holiday weight gain. So, joining me are two people that understand this all too well and can, perhaps, teach us a few lessons this holiday season. Dolvett Quince, a trainer on "The Biggest Loser" and "The Biggest Loser" himself, John Rhode, who lost 220 pounds in 13 weeks and won a quarter of a million dollars for his efforts. First of all, congratulations, John, as we look at your before and after pictures. What is it like to be back in the real world surrounded by all this holiday fare?
JOHN RHODE, WINNER, "THE BIGGEST LOSER": Oh, first off, thank you for having me on. It`s really, really difficult, you know, to be home and it`s the holidays. Everybody puts weight on this time of the year, and my goal is to not put any weight on. And, so, I`ve got my work cut out for me. I`ll tell you that.
PINSKY: Are you fearful you`re going to go slide back to where you were, or even, you know, 30, 50, 100 pounds would be a big problem.
RHODE: Oh, it`d be terrible. I am fearful of it every day. And I`m hoping that through not only the fear, but also proper planning, that I can avoid that trap. I understand, you know, the odds, probably 50/50, and I`m going to do everything I can to stay healthy and happy and just continue to live active, rewarding lifestyle.
PINSKY: John, one thing I`ve noticed about people that successfully lose weight and also, as a corollary, successfully keep weight off, is sort of like a good coach. Like, you had Dolvett, I assume you worked with John, Dolvett?
DOLVETT QUINCE, TRAINER, "THE BIGGEST LOSER": I did.
PINSKY: OK. And a good coach, John, keeps that person focused. That relationship sort of fills them and being accountable to somebody else. Do you have someone like that in your life now?
RHODE: Oh, I`ve got a whole slew of people. I mean, you know, first off, Dolvett really helped me a lot in the latter part of the show dealing with my emotions. And for me, the emotional component seemed to be what was missing. And so, I`ve got a ton of people out there that are willing to reach out to me and help me.
And you know, the things that Dolvett taught me at the ranch, I carry those with me every day. Dolvett set the perfect example for me. He showed me how to be vulnerable.
PINSKY: I want to get -- OK. That vulnerability is what I want to focus on. But first, I want to look at how you work these contestants. Here`s a little piece of video here. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is day one, yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Day one is a new beginning, a new attitude, a new drive, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want you to remember one thing. Breath control. Control how you`re breathing and you control your body. Raise that incline up to eight. You`re not moving, you`re not losing, people. Do not hold on to my treadmill. Take my incline up to 12. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Keep moving!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Dolvett, I think everyone is aware of the hard work that`s necessary. I mean, that`s just a given. But John brings up this interesting issue of being emotionally vulnerable. What does he mean by that?
QUINCE: It simply means, you know, just diving into this with the right mindset. Emotionally, you have to not have any walls up.
PINSKY: Well, it seems like a lot of people that have -- it`s funny you would use the word "wall," because in my experience, a lot of people that have an excessively large body around them, use that body as an emotional barrier against other people. And when they lose that body, John, maybe I can have you comment on this.
When they lose that protective barrier, sometimes, they get depressed. Sometimes, they get panicky, sometimes they just lose their sense of who they are. Did you have those kinds of experiences?
RHODE: Well, what I found is that I had to learn how to feel. I wasn`t even sure what to feel at times. I`d spent so many years letting food dictate how I would feel. You know, I would overeat until I felt pain in my stomach and uncomfortable. So, I had to rethink everything. I had to figure out, how do I feel?
I really had to do a lot of soul searching, and I`m still doing that. I`m still discovering who I am, but I`m grateful for this blessed opportunity to learn who I really am.
PINSKY: So, Dolvett, that experience of, I need to feel again, is something I hear from addicts all the time as soon as they give up their drug of choice. So, food becomes the drug of choice for some of these folks, doesn`t it?
QUINCE: 100 percent. You know, when I met John, John told me that he`s a food addict. He would eat --
PINSKY: He knew it.
QUINCE: He knew it off the jump. He would eat until he felt pain, Dr. Drew. You know, when you get to that stage in your life, like my goal is to gorge and eat to where I can`t eat anymore that it hurts, then you`re in trouble.
QUINCE: You have to get beyond that. And you have to put down that wall in order to be successful.
PINSKY: All right. Are there takeaways for people at home who are just, you know, sort of maybe not on the scale that John is but are struggling as most Americans are with their weight. Are there things that they can put in place now to avoid being very guilty and as I`m going to be after the holidays, and feel bad and have to take action. There are things we can do to sort of avoid some of that pain later.
QUINCE: The first advice I`d give people is to take accountability for what you`re doing to yourself. We don`t pay attention to what`s happening inside. How about writing it down? How about saying, OK, for breakfast I have this, for lunch I have this, for dinner I have this.
PINSKY: Writing down the plan for the meals or after you`ve eaten?
PINSKY: Both. OK.
QUINCE: First, write down what you`ve eaten, and then, make the changes after. OK. Maybe, these were too many calories right here. Instead of me having bacon and hash browns and waffles for breakfast, let me try oatmeal? You know what I mean? Make those adjustments, but you have to write it down first.
PINSKY: Are there things -- I think the biggest -- there are two big things that happen the holiday season. One is the enticement. Everything looks so yummy, number one. And then, number two, appetite management. Are there things we can do to watch out for that? And John, feel free to ring in if I press any buttons that are meaningful for you as well.
QUINCE: I think the best thing you can do is create some sort of burn, you know?
QUINCE: Do some form of cardio, do some sort of weightlifting, do a combination of both.
PINSKY: So, for the exercise, bulimics like me, I can gorge on apple pie and then go after and just burn it off and run for two hours?
PINSKY: No, you`re not saying that?
QUINCE: No, I`m not saying that at all. I`m not saying go to the extreme on either side. Create balance. Eat light, eat healthy, make good choices, but also get a burn in. You`ll be surprised how much energy you have.
PINSKY: John, I`m going to give the last word to you. Are there things that you would advise for people at home that are struggling?
RHODE: Oh, definitely. I would just say, do what Dolvett and I did at the ranch, OK? I knew what I was going to eat for breakfast, so I would prepare for that. If I didn`t want to eat something, what I do nowadays, I don`t bring it into the house. If I`m afraid I`m going to eat a whole batch of cookies, no cookies in the house. If I don`t have them there, I don`t have to worry about it.
So, have a plan. Stick to the plan. You know, if you make a mistake, fine. Forgive yourself and move on, but just know this. Keep it simple. Keep it realistic and reasonable, but above all else, you know what, have a great holiday season, and, you know, enjoy time with your family, because ultimately, when it`s all over, all we have is the memories.
PINSKY: And we are going to find out what motivated John more. What is to win and the money? Or was it to overcome the threat to his health? That is next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RHODE: I lost a total of 220 pounds. I weigh 225 pounds right now, and I feel fantastic. My plans now to keep the weight off is to run marathons. I`m going to run the L.A. marathon. I`m so excited. It`s going to be fantastic. And then, after that, my plan is, if my favorite pair of jeans are starting to get a little snug, then I need to figure out what I`m doing wrong.
QUINCE: I learned that vulnerability is contagious. And I was dealing with so many vulnerable spirits. People that were facing their demons. I realized if I exposed myself and I was completely honest, it would benefit any and everyone I was able to help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Welcome back. Of course, we all might have to drop some weight after the holiday season, but none of us will get a quarter of a million dollars to do so. John Rhode, the "Biggest Loser" winner did receive $250,000 for losing 220 pounds in just 13 weeks. John, what felt better? Winning or actually succeeding and losing the weight?
RHODE: You know what, I think it was actually a combination of both, because I`ve been looking for some success in my adult life, and I definitely found it. And the winning, it felt amazing. I mean, you go through all of those challenges and the trials and all those different things and the aspects of being on the show. And then to come out on top and to be the guy that was crowned the "Biggest Loser," it just felt amazing.
PINSKY: And John, one last topic, and this is a more delicate one. I hope you don`t mind addressing, which is, we`ve done a lot of talk on this program about trauma and surviving trauma, and the kind of eating you were doing sounds like what we call emotional disregulation where you`re trying to manage emotions with eating.
A, were you the victim of some sort of trauma, and you can answer that or not. And B, do you have any message out there for other people who that be trying to manage emotions that have been through something like that?
RHODE: You know, I think, to some extent, we all have some scar tissue. And for me, I experienced a lot of rough times in my adult life. We had a successful adoption in 2003, but then we had a failed adoption in 2005, and we ultimately ended up losing our home over, you know, getting the funds for that adoption.
And then, my father passed in 2009, and I had a lot of unresolved issues with him, things that I needed to work out with him. And fortunately, Dolvett helped me out a lot with that and just taught me how to persevere and how to come to good terms with everyone and everything in my past and just to pick myself up, dust myself off, and move on. And I definitely --
PINSKY: John, we`ve got less than a minute left. I`m going to interrupt you and say congratulations, and I have no doubt you`ll succeed through these holidays. Dolvett, in 40 seconds remaining, how do we give a piece of that to everybody out there? That ability to put the past behind or process it and move on?
QUINCE: You know, basically, you have to face your demons. You have to realize --
PINSKY: How? How do people do that? It`s an empty statement these days.
QUINCE: Yes, it really is. You just -- I think you need help. You need --
PINSKY: Get close to somebody.
PINSKY: And have them coach you through it.
QUINCE: You need to talk it out. You need to not hold on to it. You got to communicate the pain.
PINSKY: With another person.
QUINCE: You have to connect. It`s about that human connection.
PINSKY: Where`d you learn that?
QUINCE: Mom and dad.
PINSKY: Mom --
PINSKY: Thank you, Dolvett. And John, have a great holiday. And try -- Dolvett and John and myself are going to try to avoid the eggnog this week, and I ask you to do the same. And if you have to indulge, as Dolvett said, balance. Balance is the trick.
I want to thank you all for watching. Be sure to stay tuned for our holiday special this Friday at nine. And, you know, I wish everybody just a great holiday season. Happy New Year. Please stay tuned for the upcoming shows we have. We`ll be showing you some of our favorite interviews from the last year. So, we`ll see you then.