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Another Casey Video Surfaces; Joran Teases Courtroom; Kyle Richards on Her New Book ; E.J. Scott Need to run in a Marathon by 12 this year;

Aired January 6, 2012 - 21:00:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

Have you seen the new pictures of Casey Anthony? We`ve got them, and another video has surfaced tonight.

Plus, Joran van der Sloot copping a plea, the suspect in the Natalee Holloway`s disappearance as he might. Is he a criminal beyond redemption? I`ll tell you why he might be.

Then, "Real Housewife" Kyle Richards is here. She says life is not a reality show, but she`s on one.

And we`ll talk to a marathon man who is losing his sight.

Let`s get started.

Well, welcome to the program this evening.

And, of course, breaking news, yet another brand new video of Casey Anthony has surfaced on YouTube. Now, there was a video uploaded on YouTube yesterday, we showed you that one. It`s the first time we heard from Casey since she was found innocent of murder. There it is alongside of me. Showing off her lovely blonde - there is her blonde hair, talked about adopting a dog. I`ve heard on the Internet it`s been alleged that the dog`s name is Smooch. Good times.

In the new video, Casey talks about - oh, this is yet another video showed up today, she talks about piercing her nose and piercing her ears. It`s a very short video. Unfortunately, I cannot show it to you tonight due to legal constraints, but you can find it on YouTube.

But talking about Casey, again the opening show again with Casey does give me an opportunity to say what I wanted to say last night. I want to be a little clear about this. I believe that Casey is probably in treatment right now, and I believe Casey Anthony is a treatable individual.

Everyone has been focusing on the fact that Casey is saying me, me, me in these videos. Well, I want you to understand something. Guess what? That`s what we tell patients to do in treatment when they`re doing journals and video journals. So please, let`s not read too much into these videos.

Now, I`ve had some time to think about this young lady since she was found not guilty. We all believe that she did something horrible or that she was at least involved in having done something horrible, but in my opinion she probably has a neurobiological problem, meaning her brain doesn`t work very well.

If you`re interested in reading about brain conditions like this, I think the case of Phineas Gage in a book called "Descartes` Error." You can read about it if you wanted to of people who have frontal lobe dysfunction.

And what makes us all crazy about Casey is she doesn`t seem to understand how her behavior impacts others, whether it`s a little girl or those of us that are watching her behavior and so outraged by her lying. She doesn`t perceive those things, and that`s a brain mechanistic issue.

And she is someone now that she`s out and about that if treated could get a lot better, and certainly not potentially be dangerous to other people, although I`m worried about Smooch. I must tell you, this little dog, I`m not sure given her pet cemetery history, I`m not sure that that`s the greatest idea. I`m just saying.

But be that as it may, the point - the reason I bring this up is, A, to make clear that I do believe that footage is from somebody in treatment. She`s using all of the language of treatment. It looks like a treatment environment. That`s what we advise somebody to do with her kinds of conditions. So I think that`s what we`re looking at here.

And secondly, it allows me to differentiate between somebody like Casey, who`s done horrible things, and what I would call a real criminal.

You want to talk about a real criminal? Well, tonight a cocky Joran van der Sloot, a real criminal, on trial for murder, actually toying with the court - look at him - promised to plead guilty if he has some time to think about it. Take a look at this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Late breaking developments in the Joran van der Sloot case.

RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: He`s supposed to plead guilty to all of the charges in connection with the brutal murder of 21-year-old Stephany Flores in 2010. That never happened.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR, "NEWSROOM" (voice-over): Flores was beaten and strangled in van der Sloot`s hotel room in Lima, Peru.

(on camera): Today, Joran van der Sloot told the Peruvian court he wants more time - more time to reflect on a plea in his murder trial.

SMITH (voice-over): He wanted to give a, quote, "sincere confession," but he`s disagreeing with the charges against him.

Joran`s attitude I think is what people are really talking about today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was yawning and slouching in his chair.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Also, van der Sloot was the prime suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. She was last seen leaving a nightclub with van der Sloot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a man who has created such horrible wreckage in his life and I do hope judgment day is coming up soon.


PINSKY: Guys like this are dangerous. They are charming. They seem to be convincing, and they get off on killing people.

Twenty-four-year-old admitted to police he murdered Stephany Flores after meeting her in a Peruvian casino. Take a look.


POLICE (through translator): So it is true and I`m going to ask you this, and you can say yes or no. Did you kill Stephany Tatiana?


POLICE: You killed Stephany Tatiana Flores, right?



PINSKY: Now he says oh, I`m sorry, I didn`t have a translator during that confession. Look at him here. Joran seems relaxed, yawning, smirking in court today. Criminals like this, in my opinion, and I hesitate even saying criminals like this.

Let`s do it, because see, I - there`s criminals and there`s criminals in my world. When I come across somebody like this that I am trying to treat, and I realize it`s this situation, I stop. They`re not treatable in my opinion and they are dangerous.

Let`s go straight to my guest. Criminal Profiler Pat Brown, Prosecutor Stacey Honowitz, and Jean Casarez, who has been covering this case since the beginning.

Jean, can you fill us in on the latest?

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: Well, the latest is this was the first time we had ever seen Joran van der Sloot in court. He had never been in a courtroom before. First day of his murder trial. His attorneys told us right before court began that he was going to plead guilty to qualified murder, with a sincere confession. That`s what we were expecting. It didn`t happen.

He controlled that courtroom. When he said I want to stop now, I want a continuance, we`ll come back again, everyone agreed, the judge had to agree, prosecutors had to agree, and the other co-defendants who were the taxi drivers that drove him over to Chile, they had to agree, too.

PINSKY: Now, I want to remind people, I really, this guy gives me the creeps. He`s the kind of guy who actually gets sexual satisfaction from murdering girls. These are - this is what I call a psychopath.

And here are some of the traits of somebody who fits that psychopathic profile. They lack empathy and remorse. They are the conditions they do have, too, like sociopathy and narcissism. They have shallow or no emotions. They`re egocentric. They`re aroused by violence, deceptive, they appear normal, even charming. But I tell you what, they are not treatable.

And here is the deal about guys like this. They are so devoid of emotion, and so deceptive, so devious that they act in ways that they think other people want them to act. They`re not treatable. They just put on a show for doctors.

Now, again, I`m contrasting here with Casey Anthony who I talked about earlier who could potentially be treated.

Pat Brown, you`re a criminal profiler. Joran, do you think he will act like this again and do you agree with me with the kind of profile I`m setting up here of this man?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Dr. Drew, I agree with you on Joran van der Sloot. I don`t agree with you on Casey. I think they`re both equal psychopaths in their own right.

I do think we`re not going to see Casey repeat a crime again simply because probably she will make enough money. She can hire a baby-sitter. She can have people around her giving her attention. Probably it was a situational thing with her daughter. The child got in the way and she got fed up with having that kind of life. She`ll probably get a new life she`ll be happier with. I think she wouldn`t do anything like that again.

PINSKY: But, Pat, I will interrupt you. I`m just saying I`m talking about a guy that`s within that motivational state. This is a guy who is motivated to kill. Casey is a screw ball that did something awful. This guy gets off on killing, I suspect. Do you agree?

BROWN: I don`t think he gets off. He`s not a serial killer, but I think people are confusing more than he is.

PINSKY: He is a serial killer. He`s killed - how many women does he have to kill before he is a serial killer?

BROWN: No. I call him a date rapist - a date rape guy with a rage problem, because what he does is he goes out and gets these girls, and girls will go with him for one reason or another as a date or a friend because he seems cute and nice and all that, and smart enough.

So the first girl goes with him and that was Natalee. And he`d been in bed with lots of girls on that beach probably, but Natalee went with him and said no. And that ticked him off and he became angry, lost his temper with her. Because he`s like a boyfriend losing his girlfriend, only it`s maybe an hour-long relationship, but, hey, still, you`re leaving me. You`re saying I`m not worth it. You`re going with some other guy, hey, forget it.

He gets angry. He killed her in a rage. That`s my belief. And with Stephany - oh, by the way, I want to say Stephany - Stephany I think was an attempted rape. This hasn`t been felony murder. That girl did not have her pants on. The kind of assault on her looks like to me an attempted sexual assault, and I think he killed her in rage because she said no as well. She was looking at his computer (INAUDIBLE).

PINSKY: But I think you`re getting into that area that I`m talking about, this guy is motivated in a way that`s disgusting. And look at this surveillance footage. This is him outside the hotel room. Show me that footage. That`s not what we`re looking at here.

Where he goes outside his hotel room, comes back and gets two cups of coffee, playing to the hotel security camera the entire time. There he is, this one. And this is - this is again, this is a guy who is acting as though he is giving us what we would expect to see from somebody who`s got somebody in the room that he`s going to get coffee for.

Pat Brown, there are - these guys that I think he is, they are the world`s greatest actors, are they not?

BROWN: Oh, he absolutely is, he is a psychopath. Absolutely a psychopath. But the difference is, he`s not a serial killer because serial killers plan to abduct and rape and murder or at least murder their victims. They plan that ahead of time.

I don`t think he plans this. He gets angry when he doesn`t get what he wants. He`s a spoiled little boy who really gets fed up with women who just don`t play his game.

PINSKY: And Stephany, finally to you, what`s going to happen, do you think? What kind of game is he playing with the court and how long is the court going to put up with this? Stacey, I beg your pardon. I say Stephany, Stacey, to you.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: I was thinking there`s a Stephany and I didn`t know you were talking to me.

PINSKY: I beg your pardon.

HONOWITZ: Listen, this is - this is not unusual. I mean, sometimes you do see this happen where they say that they`re going to come in and they`re going to plead and then what happens is they have a change of heart and they decide that they`re going to kind of play around and see if they can get the best deal.

There`s one thing that I do disagree with you about. I believe he is a psychopath, absolutely. None of us have ever met him, but we can see from his behavior. For most psychopaths do try to conform their behavior and they`re sneaky and they act.

In this case, when he walked in that courtroom, he didn`t conform his behavior. He didn`t act appropriately and was sneaky. You could see he could care less. This guy didn`t care. It was almost like they were wasting his time. And so he did kind of take control of that courtroom.

But the prosecutors and the judges had to abide by it because you have a series of appeals if they didn`t give him ample time. When he comes in next Wednesday, I guarantee you it`s going to be a whole different ball of wax. He will have these next couple of days to talk to the lawyer. He`s going to try to negotiate down from the 30 years. He`s going to say that the confession was coerced, and that the aggravating factor is not what happened.

But the interesting thing is he explained it in detail, and the detail matched what the evidence was. And so I think it is not going to make a difference.

PINSKY: Thank you, Stacey. Thank you, Pat. And thank you, Jean.

Coming up, we`re going to talk to the attorney who represents Natalee Holloway`s mom and get if we can from him her reaction. Plus, a deeper look at Joran`s bizarre behavior in court today. That`s next.


PINSKY: Joran van der Sloot tells a Peruvian court he needs more time to think before pleading guilty to having murdered 21-year-old Stephany Flores.

Joining me now is attorney for Beth Holloway, John Q. Kelly, and body language expert Susan Constantine.

Susan, I`m going to ask you first. What did you make of his behavior in court today? We`re going to look at some images where he`s dozing off - we`re trying to get that up on the screen here as we`re going to look at this. He`s dozing off. He`s yawning. He seems insolent.

This guy - this guy really bothers me, and I`m not sure IO can put my finger on why, just looking at his body language, but maybe you can put a little fine point on that for us.

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, if you could imagine that everything that goes on inside of us, our thoughts and all of our emotion is exhibited through our nonverbal communication, I am certain that all night long he probably tossed and turned, thought, tossed and turned more, and what we`re seeing is of course part of his personality. He really doesn`t care. So he`s got that detachment.

But in addition to that, you can see his long eye closures, the darkening around his eyes and you could also see his eyes shift. So when you`re seeing these shifts, he has almost kind of like a lazy eye. I think that, you know, he`s sleep deprived. That`s what it appears to me, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: It`s as simple as sleep deprivation or is it sleep deprivation. And you`re saying the shifty eyes, to me, that`s just - that means that he`s like trying to manipulate his way out of this.

CONSTANTINE: No, that`s not what I`m saying.

PINSKY: OK. Go ahead.

CONSTANTINE: That`s not what I`m saying. What I`m saying is that, you know, it`s like someone has a lazy eye, where their eyes sometimes shift very lazily over to one side and come back because he`s trying to refocus. You could also see more clouding around his eyes, because he`s not real fresh looking. I mean, he looks tired.

So in addition to that is about his attitude. That`s also plays into it. And, you know, well, he is very arrogant. He has no empathy. We know that he is also a sociopath. What`s new? We already know that already.

But the one thing that I would like you to see what every one may be missing is that how he is answering those questions, even though it`s in another language, it really doesn`t matter. Because when he`s talking about giving a sincere confession, at that exact time, his eyes become very narrowed. His eyes become very squinted. His mouth becomes more horizontal and his lips get very tightened. That`s anger, OK?

So he is feeling more anger. He is very sinister in a lot of his expressions, and, see, that`s what I`m seeing in his body language.

PINSKY: I love the word "sinister" because that feels right with what I`m looking at here.


PINSKY: He said he wanted to make a, quote, "sincere confession," unquote, which could potentially qualify him for a reduced sentence.

John Q. Kelly, you know, I`m looking at this guy, and I know Beth has just been through just awful experiences with him. I`m not - I don`t believe he`s capable of a sincere anything. What are Natalee`s mom`s thoughts?

JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY FOR BETH HOLLOWAY: Well, she has been down this road with him. She knows that he`s certainly not capable of a sincere confession or any sort of a truthful answer, truthful statement.

I mean, I think everybody is over reading his body language and things. He went into court today to telegraph his aloofness, sort of a first shot over the bow that I don`t care what you do to me, we`re going to do this on my terms or we`re not going to do it. He went in there. He was a former poker. He had the prosecution play their hand and want to hear exactly what they were going to say.

Now he wants to go back and craft whatever he`s going to say in court Wednesday, and Doctor, you`re not going to hear a sincere confession Wednesday either. He`s going to push. He`s going to give the minimum he can get. He`s going to engage in brinkmanship. And this wouldn`t get done Wednesday either. He doesn`t want to admit to the intentional murder and he doesn`t want to admit to the robbery.

Those things were conveyed today when he shook his head and looked away when they bring up certain facts, you could see what he was going to contest. And, you know -

PINSKY: And John -

KELLY: -- we`ve circled each other for five years and I know him very well.

PINSKY: That`s what I was going to say, for people that may not know all the details or forget what the Holloways have been through with him, can you give us a little, just a brief sketch of what it was like in the past dealing with him, promising things, promising confessions, promising to tell the Holloways what happened to their daughter, and then nothing, unless it served his needs.

KELLY: Well, of course. I mean, he`s scammed so many people out of so much money with so many stories, and I spent a rather lengthy amount of time with him one on one a couple of times in the last month before he went to Peru on this murder. He told me how he, you know, hood winked everybody, how he made fools of everybody.

And I can tell you when he was in that courtroom today, there`s no doubt that he thinks he is the smartest person in that courtroom. He thinks he is much smarter than those judges. He thinks he`s much smarter than the prosecutor and he thinks he`s much smarter than his own attorney. He is relying on himself and he thinks he is going to get the better of everybody.

PINSKY: John, I agree with you. I think that`s who we`re seeing here. And you`re the first person I`ve spoken to across the satellite here that seems to really agree with me that this is a very different quality of criminal here in this guy. I mean, I compared him to Casey Anthony.

KELLY: Oh, no question.

PINSKY: Yes. This is - this is - well, how would you - please, based on what your experience has been, compare him for me to say a Casey Anthony, who`s not a good person, a mess, lies, distorts, as I understand as she`s perceived, versus this guy who gets off on manipulating, taking things from people and murdering people. We have one minute, I`m sorry. Go ahead.

KELLY: You know, Casey Anthony was not born and raised to engage in whatever happened with she and her daughter. It was probably a short term thing where she, you know, made certain bad decisions and is moving on with her life.

Joran van der Sloot was born a self absorbed, attention-seeking, control freak who lives in a world of fiction he`s created from his youth where he`s always right, everybody else is wrong. Anything that happens, it`s not his fault, it`s the other person.

PINSKY: John, thank you very much.

KELLY: That`s in a nutshell. Sure.

PINSKY: Thank you, John. Susan, thank you as well. A very interesting conversation.

Next up, as I said, there are new photos of Casey Anthony that have been revealed tonight, and we`ve got some of them, and of course, I will answer your questions about Casey.

And later in the show, again that will be the on the "On Call" section, I`ve got a lot to say tonight, letting off a little head of steam. Here on the show, housewife Kyle Richards is here. We`re going to check out what is reality and what isn`t reality on a reality show. Look at consequences are being on a reality show and on relationships. Because every marriage I see that goes on a reality show doesn`t seem to make it. Stay with us.



CASEY ANTHONEY, ACQUITTED FOR KILLING HER DAUGHTER CAYLEE: You know, I`m extremely excited, extremely excited that I`ll be able to Skype and obviously keep a video log, take some pictures, and that I have something that I can finally call mine.


PINSKY: Welcome back.

Now, you`ve had a lot to say about the Casey Anthony video you just saw there from YouTube that surfaced yesterday on YouTube, and what I`ve said about her tonight apparently on the Internet, this is a live show tonight so probably the Internet is ablaze with comments and anger directed at me for saying that Casey Anthony is not a criminal. That`s not what I am saying.

Please listen carefully to what I say, folks. I`m not saying she didn`t commit a crime. I`m saying she`s a great person and not a horrible person. I`m saying that I`ve treated cases like Casey Anthony and made them better.

Joran van der Sloot who`s somebody motivated to kill, raised to kill, will kill again and is not treatable and is purely criminal. A criminal versus somebody that commits a criminal act, is all I`m - so you can understand these things. You got what I`m saying? Just make this - just the little differentiation here, so you could understand the nuances of human experience. This is an opportunity to do that.

All right. So said it`s discovered never before seen photos of Casey, hooray, while she`s been, quote, "in hiding." Take a look. Here we see her in one photo with brown hair. There she is. And the other with blonde hair, another RadarOnline report even has her sporting red hair and a nose ring which she talked about in that video.

But let`s get some of your calls and questions here. Let`s go to Terri in North Carolina. Go ahead, Terri.

TERRI, ROCKY MOUNT, NORTH CAROLINA (via telephone): Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Hey, Terri.

TERRI: First of all, I just wanted to let you know I love your show -

PINSKY: Thank you.

TERRI: -- and I follow you all the time on Facebook. But I just wanted to make a comment that I think Casey Anthony is the type that will always need attention and need to be in the spotlight no matter what the cost is.

PINSKY: Yes, yes.

TERRI: And in my opinion, Dr. Drew, her actions will eventually cost her her life.

PINSKY: Well, that`s sad if somebody, some vigilante takes that to heart and does something like that, but you`re right. And she is reprehensible. She disgusts us. And we react horribly to her. And she seems clueless about how we perceive her.

That`s what I`m saying. That`s a particular brain mechanism that allows us as human to appreciate what other people are experiencing when we interact with them. She ain`t got that. It`s a disorder there.

Deborah in California, go ahead.

DEBORAH, RED BLUFF, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Hi, Deborah.

DEBORAH: I just want to say that after the video, quote-unquote, "leak," I bet Casey was sitting back laughing about all of the media attention she was getting, once again.

PINSKY: Yes. I know you`re probably right.

DEBORAH: Do you think if we ignored her she would go away?

PINSKY: Yes, yes, probably. Although, no, she`ll probably surface and find a way somewhere to get in our - in our, you know, in our cross hairs again.

Mike on Facebook writes, "I still maintain that Casey Anthony is the handiwork of Cindy Anthony. Why does Cindy continue to defend her?"

And that`s a really important point. I think Cindy is in denial about her daughter and her condition and has been since she was a young girl, which is why we have a Casey Anthony that doesn`t finish high school, doesn`t tell her parents. Just, oh, yeah, by the way, I didn`t finish. I`m not going to walk and get the diploma. I didn`t finish high school. And doesn`t appreciate that their parents would be upset about that.

Dad was in denial about than and when he`d realized how bad things were, then he became angry and rejecting of her.

All right, now. Next, suicide, cat fights, controversy, and we have treatment for chemical dependency, one housewife is here and she is going to give us the real reality of life of a housewife on Beverly Hills.

Want to know more about what you`re watching now, go to for our top 10 Must See, Must Share stories. Stay with us. I`ll be right back.


PINSKY (voice-over): Coming up, E.J. Scott is slowly going blind from an inherited condition. He is running a marathon blindfolded to call attention to the cause in a race against time.

But first, one of the real housewives has some explaining to do. Kyle Richards is showing a new and not always nice side of herself to TV viewers. Is it reality or just a trumped up plot twist?

Welcome back. This season has been a tumultuous ride on the cast of "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills." There`s been sibling rivalry, controversy, cat fights, rehab, divorce, and a death, right? That`s on this season? All right. We`re just getting started here. Watch this.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you kidding me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you kidding me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Least I don`t do crystal meth in the bathroom all night long.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what, Brandy, let me tell you something, you do not -- you do not want to talk to me like that.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You do not want to go there.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My sister, don`t ever talk about her like that again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Finger in my face --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can put my finger in your face, too.




PINSKY: Joining me now, one of the stars "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills," and author of a new book, "Life is not a reality show." Here it is right here. I am going to hold it up. Kyle Richards, there it is on the full screen.

Kyle, when people look at that footage, OK. they want to believe that that`s somehow not real.

KYLE RICHARDS, CAST MEMBER, REAL HOUSEWIVES OF BEVERLY HILLS: That`s what I want to believe, too, what a coincidence.

PINSKY: OK. And I think -- try to pull the curtain a little bit a back about a reality show. The producer sort of set things up in a way where things can become volatile, certainly not scripted, right?

RICHARDS: It is not scripted at all.

PINSKY: Do they stir you guys up in any way, pull you aside, go you wouldn`t believe what Russell said about you and then get --


PINSKY: So, there`s none of that?

RICHARDS: No. For the others, I can`t speak.

PINSKY: And they set up circumstances where there`s likely to be conflict or is that just --?

RICHARDS: They may say would you girls go to lunch, discuss what happened last night, that kind of thing. But they don`t whisper in my ear try to get us worked up at all.

PINSKY: So, it`s what you are seeing, when people watched those fights, they think it can`t be real.

RICHARDS: I know. I know. I get that comment - a lot of people assume it is scripted but it is really not. I have to say, and many times I would love to blame it on a script, believe me, but it is all very real.

PINSKY: The other thing I want to talk about, my wife and I, have a little sort of something we notice about reality shows, and why we won`t allow a camera in the house, is that every time a reality show is of a married couple, almost every time, except (inaudible). That`s the only thing - only exception I think off. Eventually or a as a result of it seems the marriages don`t seem to survive. Have you seen that as well?

RICHARDS: I`ve seen that a lot. But for me personally, I never would have done a show like this if I didn`t feel I had a solid marriage to begin with. And I can say that it definitely not hurt my marriage in any way. Many times, my husband is my only source of support. And he is very good about letting things roll off his shoulders with the show and stuff, thank God I have them.

PINSKY: So, this has been cool for your family. You have three kids, right?

RICHARDS: Four kids.

PINSKY: And they have been OK with all this? Hasn`t affected them negatively?

RICHARDS: No. Not at all. You know, they don`t care about the show. They don`t care about being filmed on it. They`re not impressed by at all which I love that about them, so.

PINSKY: Good. OK. Let`s look at another clip, here the "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills," Kyle and Taylor have a confrontation at Kyle`s party. Take a look at this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What? What`s wrong?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want a divorce. I don`t know if you know about the e-mail you sent Camille. I guess now her lawyers are saying that she can`t be around you guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The e-mail that was sent out, that was inappropriate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was very kind to her, I said please call me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guess what. I read the e-mail. It was not kind.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all read the e-mail.


PINSKY: So if I understand, Kyle. Russell had sent you something e-mailed that was inappropriate at that point.

RICHARDS: Russell has e-mailed Camille saying he was going to take legal action because we discussed the abuse on camera.

PINSKY: Domestic violence.


PINSKY: And you know, the beginning of the season, it seemed like Bravo is taking the position that none of Russell`s story would be played on television, and yet every episode, he is there.

RICHARDS: No, he actually come in until the sixth or seventh episode.

PINSKY: OK. There`s been a lot of him when they said there wouldn`t be any. Does that bother you?

RICHARDS: well, they went back and forth originally. They had toyed with not airing the show at all, to completely edited him taking him out, to editing it out, and to just minimally. So, it`s very disturbing to watch at times. No doubt.

PINSKY: It is funny bringing him up, your whole affect has changed. I want to talk about you about that. It is a very unpleasant topic.

RICHARDS: It is. It is unsettling at times to watch him. But, as a part of it is her story, a part of it was going on in all our lives, and I think it was also important. There`s a lot of people who have dealt with suicide and domestic abuse. So, I think it was in some ways important to address it.

PINSKY: I am always in favor of that in terms of showing how it should be treated, dealing with it head on. Is there -- did something get missed, did the ball get dropped for poor Russell or is it inevitable and had nothing to do with the show.

RICHARDS: His problems, this has nothing to do with the show. He was in deep, deep financial stress, and everyone was coming after him from every direction. He owed a lot of people money.

PINSKY: That wasn`t on the show.

RICHARDS: No. They portrayed they had more than they did.

PINSKY: But isn`t that - isn`t that a piece that the show are being - again i.

RICHARDS: We didn`t know that. We all thought that, producers thought that.

PINSKY: Thought they had money or didn`t have money?

RICHARDS: That`s before the show, how they presented to society.

PINSKY: Wouldn`t the real story have been look at people that are upside down and stress of that and consequences of that, wouldn`t that have been a better story to learn from and how desperate people get, talk about desperate housewives, how bad it could become.

RICHARDS: Yes. But they weren`t honest about it. We didn`t know the full scope of that until after he took his life.

PINSKY: I can see in you that this is it hurt.

RICHARDS: Well, it is sad. And Taylor is a friend of mine, they have a small child, it is sad.

PINSKY: Is there a message you have for the fans of the show?

RICHARDS: I think that the message really is that no matter where you live, what kind of car you drive, that you know, we all have problems. And this is not just a frivolous reality show, these are problems people deal with in real life all over the world.

PINSKY: Those being.

RICHARDS: Domestic violence, suicide, financial problems.

PINSKY: Do you think that the viewers make the housewives, that they want to see the housewives fall, makes them feel good to see people with a lot of money take a fall?

RICHARDS: I think a part of that, yes. I have seen that on some of the shows. But also, they also like to escape and see, you know, living in the lap of luxury, so to speak. But I think that, you know, some of this has been too real.

PINSKY: Do people get resentful for you in a time of stressful economy, showing your wealth like that, does that bother some people?

RICHARDS: You know, my -- the people who graph at a time to me on the show, no, because they see me more talking about my family and my husband.

PINSKY: So it doesn`t matter. Wealth doesn`t matter.

RICHARDS: For me, no, I don`t think so.

PINSKY: In the remaining minutes, tell me about the book.

RICHARDS: I started with the idea of writing the book because so many people were asking me on twitter how do you have a marriage like that, I want a marriage like that. And I grew up in a family of all women, all girls. So, I had the best education imaginable for how to get the right man, how to keep the right man, because way the youngest of all the girls. So, I think a lot of women lost hope, think they can`t have a great marriage.

But, you know, if you care about yourself, you can have an amazing marriage. But the girls are doing the wrong thing. These women thinking, I got the job. That`s it now. So, they are just kind a fragile in stuff to keep playing your cards right, even after your marriage.

PINSKY: With your partner?

RICHARDS: Yes, you do.

PINSKY: Tell me about ambition versus opportunity. That`s a whole profile.

RICHARDS: OK. But yes - but I`m going to tell you about my marriage right now.

PINSKY: Yes, yes, yes, I thought that was all part of it.

RICHARDS: I talk a lot about that stuff, too. But I talk mainly about my relationship with my husband, that really about giving women hope to have an amazing relationship with their husband. And I also talk about beauty and fashion and that stuff because that`s part of.

PINSKY: How to empower women.

RICHARDS: I am a mom of four daughters. I want to empower women.

PINSKY: Right. Your kids are in college now?

RICHARDS: I have one three years old all the way to 23, already graduated college.

PINSKY: Wow! That`s quite a spread.

RICHARDS: Yes. I am a professional mom.

PINSKY: Right.

RICHARDS: I mean, at this point I think I am a professional mom.

PINSKY: I really appreciate you coming in and being honest, straightforward, letting me grill you a bit. Out best with the book. The book, "Kyle Richards, life is not a reality show." And I know people are huge fans of the show. I got sucked into it, somebody else was here, was it you?

RICHARDS: I think so.

PINSKY: We did something in the hall here. No, it wasn`t Kyle. There was another member. It was Lisa that was here. She pulled me out and said I need something for my internet. Then it showed up on the show. I was like this is awesome.

RICHARDS: You did make an appearance on our show.

PINSKY: I did make appearance on your show. Much to my amazement. Didn`t understand that was going to happen.

RICHARDS: Next thing you know, you`re going to be the seventh housewife.

PINSKY: I will bring my wife, that will be the end of the marriage, not because of Beverly Hills housewives, but because we predict that, a reality show.

RICHARDS: So, you can read the book.

PINSKY: I will read your book.

And you know, to me, I am not taking aim at reality shows. Because my experience on reality shows having done celebrity rehab, teen mom, 16 and pregnant, this is documented reality. There`s a little bit of jockeying, setting up cameras, then reality goes and it is whatever they document. In my opinion, these are at their best when they show treatment. I wish there had been more treatment for Russell.

RICHARDS: They tried to cover some of Taylor and Russell`s problems going to therapy and all that.

PINSKY: It was complicated problems they had. I wish there had been more, that`s all I am saying. They didn`t expect the outcome they got. I understand that. So, thank you very much, Kyle.

RICHARDS: Thank you.

PINSKY: Next, I got a long distance runner who is showily losing his eyesight and gearing up for a dozen marathons just this year. He is going to do them blindfolded. I will tell you why after the break.



E.J. SCOTT, BLIND MARATHON RUNNER: I worry kind of a lot. Especially like my guide goes watch out or like, you know, stop suddenly or something like that.



PINSKY: Now, what if you were going blind and there was nothing anyone could do to stop it. One condition is so crippling, it has even the medical community bewildered, struggling. E.J. Scott is gradually losing his sight due to a rare genetic disorder it`s called (inaudible). I hope I got it right. There is no cure. But it is not slowing him down. He embarked on a journey to raise money and awareness running 12 marathons in the next year, blindfolded. Take a look at this.


SCOTT: Hi, I am E.J. Scott. And you have 12 marathons in 12 different states in 2012, all blindfolded. For a cure. (Inaudible) is actually is a hereditary degenerative eye disease that attacks (inaudible) any rods is slowly overtime until total blindness.

Since 2003, when I was diagnosed with (inaudible), I have been involved with a lot of different fund raising events. And hopefully I would be raising an average of at least $12,000 per marathon. I must be crazy.

The money raised for the marathons, hopefully $144,000 by the end of 2012, will probably be going to a doctor in Pennsylvania. She has helped an eye disease called Leebers in the past, and she has done amazing things with that. She`s convinced she can do the same with choroideremia.


PINSKY: Joining me now is the doctor E.J. would just talking about. Dr. Jean Bennett. She is a professor at University of Pennsylvania, currently doing research on choroideremia. And E.J. Scott is here with me. He was diagnosed with the disorder at age 28, about seven years ago. Since then lost more than 80 percent of his vision.

How do you deal with this, E.J.? I mean, you know it is going to keep happening. And you know from the moment of the diagnosis. It was your grandfather had the condition. He knew what it meant.

SCOTT: Grandfather had it. He died before I was diagnosed with it or knew why he was blind really. And how I deal with it, I deal with it mostly by doing benefits and fund-raising.

PINSKY: Trying to make a difference.

SCOTT: Trying to make a difference, yes. trying to be part of the solution and not just sit around.

PINSKY: Do you have kids?

SCOTT: I don`t.

PINSKY: Are you planning to have kids?

SCOTT: I would like to have kids.

PINSKY: Is that something you would want to do genetic screening or are there genetic tests for that?

SCOTT: There might be. I am not so sure. But, if I have a son, they should be -- if I have sons, they`ll be OK, if I have daughters, they will be carriers, so hoping for sons.

PINSKY: So it is a sex link - x link disorder.


PINSKY: Alright now, we have tried to illustrate what E.J. vision`s lost looks like from his point of view. So watch this and E.J. you tell me if this is similar to what is happening. You said it is like looking through - you told this to our producer - like you are talking to two paper towel rolls. Is that sort of -- although it is binocular. It comes together.

SCOTT: Yes. I would say it comes together. That`s more or less, yes.

PINSKY: And let`s look at the eye disease as it affects the eye itself. Here is what a healthy retina looks like, compared to a degenerative retina. Here we go.

On the left as you look at the screen, the healthy eye, and the damaged eye on the right with the yellow. Dr. Bennett, as I understand it, disorder occurs as we decide - discussed that it occurs mostly in males. It`s a sex link disorder. Starts in childhood as night blindness.

What is the future for this disorder? I don`t want to get into, what it is, it is a protein, that sort of folding of a protein that sustains health and oxygen to the retina and the photo receptors, the part of the either receives light starts to break down. What`s the future for this disorder?

DOCTOR JEAN BENNETT, CHOROIDEREMIA RESEARCHER: Well, we are excited about the future because right now there`s no treatment, certainly no cure for this disease. But we now know what the gene is, what the protein, encoded by the gene does, and we have the tools to be able to go in and deliver a healthy copy of that gene to the diseased cells.

So, we think based on our evidence and other evidence from other investigators that it is going to be possible to go in and correct the defect, and at least halt the disease in its tracks, preventing total blindness such as what E.J.`s grandfather suffered.

PINSKY: So you use a viral carrier or something? How do you inject the gene in there?

BENNETT: That`s right. It is essentially a neutered virus, a virus that delivers a normal copy of the gene, gets it to the cells and allows those cells to produce the right protein. But the virus doesn`t replicate (inaudible). It is essentially piggy backing the gene into the cell. We know from --

PINSKY: And doctor Bennett -- go ahead. I was going to say, this disorder is reminiscent of ret night is pigmentosa, which is something that maybe more people have heard about. Is that receiving more attention and research dollars than choroideremia?

BENNETT: Yes, it has until recently, thanks to the choroideremia research foundation, also known as CRF. There`s been a huge effort to try to develop a treatment for it. It is a form of retina pinmentosa. But it hasn`t been until recently it is part of that set. It is one of retinal degenerative disease.

PINSKY: Thank you doctor Bennett. E.J., I want to talk about your story. Pretty inspirational.

SCOTT: Thanks, Dr. Bennett.

PINSKY: You are going out to support her, going out blindfolded. Part to protect your eyes from the sun too, right? The sun is --

SCOTT: Super sunlight sensitive.

PINSKY: Also damages the proteins further you are trying to protect.


PINSKY: But again, I think people watching this want to know about you. You know, what`s the future like for you? Obviously this great guy, great looking guy, and losing your eyesight, and damn, how does he do this?

SCOTT: It`s tough. The hardest thing is that it affects my whole family. I have a brother that`s got it. I got a seven-year-old nephew that`s got it. I got a three-year-old nephew that might have it, haven`t tested him yet. So, that`s the hardest thing, it is effecting us all.

PINSKY: How do you keep such a positive attitude? Again, I have viewers out there that have less to deal with that are more unhappy than you?

SCOTT: I appreciate that. I try to like I said fund-raising really helps me.

PINSKY: A service.

SCOTT: Yes, I would say so. But don`t get me wrong, I definitely have my down times, and I`ve cried a lot of tears. But I just get back up and what`s the next step, you know, what else can I do.

PINSKY: OK. We`re going to be back with E.J. and Dr. Bennett to talk about his contribution to treatment of the disease. So, please stay with us.


PINSKY: We are back talking about choroideremia, a progressive eye disease which causes complete vision lost. There is no cure. E.J. Scott was diagnosed seven years ago as legally blind with less than 20 percent of his vision left.

E.J. has raised thousands of dollars for the cause. He plans on running 12 marathons in 2012 in hopes of raising much more. When is your first run scheduled, E.J.?

SCOTT: Nine days from today.

PINSKY: Can people contribute?

SCOTT: Sure.

PINSKY: Is there a Web site?

SCOTT: Yes. Go to

PINSKY: purechm. Also, during the break, we have comic book fans amongst the camera and stage hands here, stage manager, and you were saying you were going to sell comic books on e-bay to support the cause.

SCOTT: Yes. I am always trying to do something for the foundation. And I have tens of thousands of comic books, going to sell half of them. And I have been doing a little on e-bay, and toward choroideremia research foundation is connected to e-bay. So, if you sign up on e-bay, you can have the money sent straight to the foundation, and that`s what I have been doing.

PINSKY: And then, I caught in the pre-interview here that your girlfriend, actress Deborah Ann Role, she is from of course the series "true blood" which is one of my daughter`s very, very favorite shows. And it have caught my eyes.

SCOTT: One of my favorite shows, too.

PINSKY: There you are together. She has been very supportive. Has to be stressful for her, too, I imagine.

SCOTT: Sure. I imagine that, too. And she`s also my biggest supporter, and I wouldn`t be here right now without her. I wouldn`t have lost the weight I lost without her. I couldn`t be doing what I am doing without her.

PINSKY: Well, E.J., you really bring up something really interesting. And you know, it is easy for us to sit and talk about this amazing journey you`re on with the blind fold, the metaphor you`re representing by trying to run without your vision. But the stuff I like to emphasize on this show is how we affect one another. And is it your girlfriend, that support and love that gets you? Can I ask you how you do it? And you and I get up, I do it, give service. But also having that important other there. I think it`s really --

SCOTT: Definitely. I was doing stuff before I met her, but she`s definitely my rock for sure, for sure.

PINSKY: So it is service, availability of others, and tell me about the blind fold. About a minute left.

SCOTT: The blindfold, because the eyes are so light sensitive, I need to wear that.

PINSKY: Not just light sensitive, protein will further breakdown if photon energy gets in there. So you have to protect the eye, but it is not just protecting the eye.

SCOTT: And also a good sweat soaker upper. So, that works out well.

PINSKY: Excellent. Am I right that you have an improve something?

SCOTT: I have been improvising for about 15 years, and a lot of benefit shows I put on have been improv related, at the Iowa`s Theater, a lot of them were Iowa`s Theater in Hollywood here.

PINSKY: OK. So again, let`s review where people go if they want to support you. Go to e-bay to buy your comic books.

SCOTT: Sure.

PINSKY: They go to the Web site to contribute --

SCOTT: or if you can spoke for choroideremia, its

PINSKY: Comes up well with Google. But thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

SCOTT: Appreciate it. Thank you.

PINSKY: So, here`s a deal. If you plan to follow him in the upcoming marathons, we will bring you that in the coming months. We`re going to follow this story.

And Nancy Grace is next, and guess what, I bet she`ll be talking about Casey Anthony a little bit. And again, how am I going to say this.


Yes, but cool your jets on the internet. I am trying to help us all understand these things, get to the bottom of it, understand the differences in different kinds of human behavior. Hope you appreciate tonight`s conversation.

Thanks for watching, see you next time.