CNN CNN


 

Return to Transcripts main page

ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Casey Anthony Diary Video Story Released; Joran Van Der Sloot Pleads Guilty to Murder

Aired January 11, 2012 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight we finally learn what Casey Anthony told psychiatrists in jail. In just unsealed shrink evaluations, Casey has a brand new story about how little Caylee conceived. And it`s a shocker. And you won`t believe what she being accuses her dad of this time.

Also, is she firing Jose Baez, the man who did the impossible and got her off the hook for murder?

Plus was there a back door deal behind Joran Van Der Sloot`s confession of murder? You will hear exactly what he said in court today. And the bizarre way he tried to peel off murder of a Peruvian woman on Natalee Holloway.

And more toddlers and tears trouble. This time a 5-year-old pageant princess hits the New York night club scene to sing about her sex appeal with her mom right by her side. What`s this mom thinking? The mother and daughter team join me live tonight. And we`re taking your calls.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is disgusting. Maybe -- what about her?

CROWD: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As to the charge of first-degree murder, verdict as to count one, we the jury find the defendant not guilty.

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: I never would do anything like that to my daughter.

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I just want to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey`s lies fit the audience.

CASEY ANTHONY: I know we are going to see Caylee. I know she`s coming home. I can feel it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is public enemy number one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening, everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you lives from New York City with breaking news for you.

TMZ just reporting that Casey Anthony`s now world famous attorney, Jose Baez, has just quit. This is the very guy who got her off the hook for capital murder. Basically saving Casey`s life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: But the truth is the truth and depending on who is asking the questions, whether this laughing guy right here or whether it`s myself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sustained.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This child at 8-years-old learned to lie immediately.

BAEZ: George began to yell at her. Look what you`ve done? Your mother will never forgive you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find the defendant not guilty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alright. So now TMZ reporting that that man over there, which walked Casey out of jail has quit her team. Neither Jose nor his rep, are responding to this claim that he quit. We continue to reach out. I am calling him and texting him and if you`re watching Jose, call us. We will put you on the air immediately. And we will update this breaking story in just a moment.

But first, stunning jaw dropping just released depositions with psychiatrists reveal Casey Anthony`s most horrific and sordid, I mean sordid, stories yet.

While in jail, she told (inaudible) her precious innocent child, Caylee, was conceived in violence. Yes, Casey says she was date raped and woke up with no panties on and became pregnant with little Caylee. As a part of a slew of incredible newly released claims, Casey told psychiatrists about a party she intended the night little Caylee conceived. Quote "She took two beers and was possibly given another drug then she woke up passed out with an unclothed bottom."

This is how she said she became pregnant. Date rape. What a horrible thing to do to her already tortured parents, Cindy and George, especially if this is just another one of Casey`s eight million lies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I know we are going to see Caylee. I know she`s coming home. I can feel it.

I`m not in control over any of this because I don`t know what the hell`s going on. I don`t know what`s going on.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: What do you want me to tell Zany (ph)?

CASEY ANTHONY: That she needs to return Caylee.

CINDY ANTHONY: Someone just said that Caylee was dead this morning that she drowned in the pool. That`s the newest story out there.

CASEY ANTHONY: Surprise! Surprise!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you believe Casey was date raped? Call me 1-877- 586-7297.

Straight out to Florida prosecutor Stacey Honowitz. How horrific is this, Stacey, to defile the child who died on her watched death by claiming she was conceived during a rape?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, I don`t think you need me to tell you how disgusting it is. I mean, and you`re asking the question can we believe her. I don`t know like you said at the top of the show how can you believe anything that comes out of her mouth?

You are going to hear a series of jaw dropping, as you said, statements that were made to these doctors. But you have to take for what it`s worth. This girl can`t tell the truth from a lie. And so, all of these things that you`re hearing about today are things she told the doctor that we have no idea what they mean, why it`s even relevant at this point quite frankly, or whether or not any of it is true?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, why was anything relevant? Where do you stop with a case like this? When do you decide, forget about it?

HONOWITZ: I think probably the fact of the matter is I think that people really don`t care at this point about what she had to say to these doctors. I mean, the fact of the matter is we couldn`t believe anything she said when she was sitting in trial. And so anything that we`re listening to today, people have to take with a grain of salt. It`s despicable what she had to say. Some people are still interested, but if you can`t ever believe the person, then why are we even, you know, listening to what she had to say?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, OK. You raise an interesting question. And maybe we should just forget all about will this. But let me tell you something. I wrote a book called "secrets Can Be Murder." I know that lies are what you use to protect other lies. Lies are how you protect secrets.

If we don`t learn a little bit about the nature of lying from this, then, yes, we have truly lost an opportunity and we are wasting our time. This woman is the penultimate example of how lying, how the lack of not only rigorous honesty, but any honesty will result in incomprehensible demoralization and will hurt those around us.

So, all of us lie to a certain degree. We lie about little things in life. We tell what we think are white lies. This has to be a cautionary tale for all of us about the need for rigorous honesty in our lives. I hope I answered your question as to why we`re discussing this. That`s just one example.

HONOWITZ: Listen. There are people that are sincerely very interested in what`s going on with her life like we saw with the videos. People said at first they wouldn`t watch and then they ended up watching them.

All I`m saying is in a nutshell, if we know what a liar she was during the trial, then anything we`re talking about in these jaw dropping things that she said to the doctor we will never know whether or not they`re truthful. We will never be able to discern. I don`t think the doctors could discern it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think you`re raising a very interesting point. Is that these interviews were given to the psychiatrist before the trial. And they are not reflected in the trial. The jury never found out about any of this. And that`s another reason why it`s relevant to discuss as a news story.

Another stunner, the shrink said Casey told them she was sexually abused by her brother, Lee, and her father, George, for years on end echoing what Jose said about that during the trial. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAEZ: Casey has a brother. And he, too, wanted to follow in his father`s footsteps and on certain occasions when he was a teenager, he attempted to also touch her sister, although it didn`t go as far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course Lee denies those accusation accusations, but in this newly released depose Casey claims to psychiatrist, George did everything that Lee did to the tenth degree. Disgusting! Demeaning! Intercourse! Oral! Everything. And that it stopped by age 11.

George denied everything again through his attorney saying he never molested any family member including Casey Anthony. And he had nothing to do with Cay lee`s death.

I want to go out to Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who originally bailed Casey out of jail. You have spent time with George and Cindy Anthony. Can you in any way give us a sense of what George must be going through tonight?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: You know George has got to be the most mortified father in the world to sit there and listen and some of the things that she has said about him.

The day after we bailed her out, George went into her room and wanted to know where his granddaughter -- what has happened to my granddaughter, where is my granddaughter. That`s all we had to hear. And look at the -- his face, the way he said it and how he said it. In order to know that he had nothing to do with his daughter`s death and the way she responded to him about, be a father for once in your life, don`t be a cop all your life. You could tell what she was about. When she sat there in the living room two days later and said --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why do you think she hates her dad so much? I don`t think he`s a molester. I think that --

PADILLA: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- that she`s lying --

PADILLA: He is not a molester. He`s not a molester. But if you don`t go along with whatever lies it is, whether it`s a major story or a little white lie, she immediately attacks you and turns off at anything you have to say.

The only person she got along with the whole time we were there was Tracey. Tracey was with her ten days, day and night, 24/7. Tracy went along with everything she said. Now, the prosecution didn`t --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And remind me who Tracey is again.

PADILLA: Tracey was working with me at the time. And the deal was that she would be --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good cop/bad cop. Got it!

I want to bring in Dr. Brian Russell, forensic psychologist. Here is my theory about Casey Anthony. There is this terminology that people do, called catastrophizing (ph). That`s the term where people are afraid to go outdoors because what if I get hit by a car. They think they think of the worst possible thing that can happen and then they react in fear to that possibility.

I think Casey does a variation of that. She thinks of the worst possible horror, the worst thing she can about anybody, what the worst thing they could do is in a particular situation. And then she blurts that out as if it were the truth.

BRIAN RUSSELL, ATTORNEY: You know, Jane, I see her more as continually just painting herself as a victim. I`m not surprised at all by this statement that the child conceived during what essentially would have been a rape. She`s been telling us all along that she was abused as a child. Then she`s raped as an adult. And then somebody kidnapped her child and then somebody drowned her child or allowed the child to drown neglect gently. Now somebody is hacking her computer. This is either the unluckiest woman around or she`s a liar.

But a as a forensic psychologist who has done these kind of examinations, the most fascinating thing to me, Jane, the deposition Dr. Dan Zinger, is the feelings he talks about her eliciting in him. In psychology, we call that counter transference and overt time you learn to make use of that to generate hypothesis about the person. And what he`s essentially describing it is the depleted drained emotional feeling you get from dealing with a personality disordered person like sociopath, just look at George and Cindy, how depleted and drained they seemed after decades of dealing with Casey.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. But the psychiatrist described her as normal and said she wasn`t a sociopath. One of them even said she`s not even a narcissist. Did she cast her spell on these shrinks, too? Did Joran Van Der Sloot try to blame that Natalee Holloway for t he murder of Stephanie Flores?

We`ve got the big development in that breaking and more of Casey`s just released surprising shrink evaluations. We are taking your call. They are lining. We will get to that on the other side of the break. 1877-JVM-SAID.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever committed any sexually inappropriate act with or in the presence of your daughter, Casey Anthony?

GEORGE ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you present in your home when Caylee Anthony died?

GEORGE ANTHONY: No. And when I heard that today, it --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Naturally, the first thing I asked her is who the father was. And she at that time told me that it was Jesse Grund.

BAEZ: Were you asked to conduct a paternity test as to Caylee?

GEORGE ANTHONY: There was a name brought up that Casey believed could have been the father. All I remember is the last name was Baker, I believe.

CINDY ANTHONY: She gave me the name of Eric Baker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robyn Walensky, Author of the beautiful life, the CSI behind the Casey Anthony trial, you heard that this was a big issue during the trial, who was the father. How many stories has Casey Anthony told about who the father of little Caylee was? Now, we hear date rape, how she was conceived according to this latest just released claim.

ROBYN WALENSKY, ANCHOR, REPORTER, THE BLAZE: Jane, you know, I write about this in the book. We don`t know who the baby daddy is. And it could be one of dozens of men. You`ll remember at the trial how many 20 something-year-old guys got up there on the stand that had relationships with her in one way or another. They were, you know, taking DNA samples from half of Orange County. I`m exaggerating. But the baby daddy, it`s believed that he may be deceased. She actually told some people that he was killed in a car crash. And I believe that his mother lives in the Boston area. But I don`t think that the DNA has been done to see if indeed he was the man who is deceased who died in the car crash is the father.

But you know, what Jane, its lie after lie after lie. And I think that this lying, just to go back to what we were talking about, and the situation is that if you can lie to your mother and father, the people who gave birth to you, who know you best, and you can tell your mom and dad every single day you`re dressed and ready to leave the house, hey, mom and dad, I`m going to my job at universal studios and then you don`t even have a job at universal, you believe that you can lie to anyone if you`re getting over on your mother and father.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you`re absolutely right. I think the character of all these people we`re seeing in the news, whether it`s Casey Anthony or Joran Van Der Sloot is determined by their relationship with their parents.

And whatever their parents let them get away with is how they`ll treat the world, which again addresses what Stacey Honowitz said about, why we are even talking about this because we can learn from these. These are the worst examples of human dynamics, of family dysfunction. And we can draw lessons from them that we can apply to our own lives namely, how not to end up like this.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Debbie, Minnesota. Your question or thought, Debbie?

DEBBIE, CALLER, MINNESOTA: Hi Jane. It`s a pleasure to talk to you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Me, too.

DEBBIE: Number one, they would need a lot of cotton swab and they better intends the hours of the DNA testing place to find out who the father of her baby is. She was very promiscuous. That was proven in the trial.

Number two, I feel sorry for her parents. She has put they are through the wringer and I hope they never have contact with her again. And the one thing I`ve been waiting for ask for you a long time, Jane, if Caylee died in the early morning hours as they say the screaming, the yelling, nobody asked Cindy Anthony if she heard a thing that morning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, very good question, Debbie. There was a fight the night before. And I asked the prosecutor why he didn`t bring that up and he said that it would have required Cindy, who was fighting with Casey, purportedly, to admit that. And this was a woman who many believe lied on the stand to protect her daughter. So she would never admit she had a huge fight with Casey the night before the child went missing because that would a motive for murder.

Alright Jon Leiberman, we talked about how Cindy and George have been devastated again. Get this, she tells the psychiatrist that she eventually told her mother, Cindy, about Lee purportedly molesting her, which none of us believe. In the deposition it says told no one until last year. Told mother what happened with Lee. It was ugly. Her mother said that`s why you`re a whore.

Again, Jon, she is sticking it to her mother in this.

JON LEIBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: And, Jane, one thing that hasn`t been brought up yet is just the level of lies that have now come out in these hundreds of pages. Let me read you something. She actually tells one of the doctors, it is the belief of Casey that George took her daughter, had some sexual episode with the daughter, and then that culminated in the daughter being -- her life being taken.

What that said is now she`s accusing her father of actually sexually molesting her little girl, as well, prior to drowning her. I mean, that`s what we`re seeing in this deposition. Buried in here are all sorts of little tidbits that show just how far these lies go.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let me tell you something, if they had known about this, about if we had heard about these things that she had said to the psychiatrist, Jose Baez would never have been able to say will this in his opening statement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAEZ: How in the world can a mother wait 30 days before ever reporting her child missing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAEZ: This child at 8-years-old learned to lie immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: One of the shrinks who evaluated Casey said he did not find any evidence of an active mental illness and found her in fact completely normal which was surprising. Dr. Brian Russell, forensic psychologist, I`m surprised that he found her surprisingly normal. Normal! How can he possibly say that?

RUSSELL: I actually said that same thing all along, Jane, for the past few years. That there was nothing probably wrong with the way that her mind works in terms of its ability to know what`s going on around her; know right from wrong, et cetera. And you have to keep in mind that the context. First he was examining her just to see if she`s competent to stand trial. So he`s just looking for major mental problems like, you know, psychosis or mental --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I got it. So she`s not a ski psycho. OK.

Back to our breaking news. Sorry to cut you off but we want to get to this breaking news. TMZ claiming Jose Baez is quitting because of these videos diaries which of course sent the Internet on fire last week. Check this out again from you tube.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I know it will be a while since I`ll leave. I`ll be here for many, many months more. Even if I`m here for six months even if I get off probation early, I`ll still be here at least until February, the end of February.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Jose Baez not commenting tonight. Other reports claim Casey let him go, Jon Leiberman, because he hasn`t secured it this huge money book deal or huge t it v interview. What do you know?

LEIBERMAN: Yes, well, sources close to them were saying actually as you just said that Casey was very upset because she felt that Jose was using all of this to boaster his own image publicly and not secure that multimillion-dollar sit down television interview that she is trying to get.

But now we`re actually hearing that the real story is that Jose has decided to pull the plug because he was furious that these videos, the video diary, got out there probably, frankly, hurting her chances to get that huge sit down interview now that her image has been out there already.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Alright. Well, I`m just checking my phone because I want to make sure that he hasn`t texted me back. Because I said please, on phone. I`m trying to get - I want to get Jose`s side of the story.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Julie, Kentucky, your question or thought.

JULIE, CALLER, KENTUCKY: Hi, Jane, love your show. First of all, normal 19, 20, 21-year-olds typical teenager or young adult is going to be partying these days. You know, maybe she was date raped. It could be very possible. If she wasn`t, it could have been one of her boyfriends that testified. Maybe Casey did not want to know herself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I think you raise a good point, Julie, but I want to address that to Robyn Walensky. as our forensic psychiatrist or psychologist said, yes, possibly date rape, but date rape and molested by your father and your brother and the child drowns accidentally and there`s -- and she`s a pathological liar? You see what I`m saying?

WALENSKY: Yes, she comes up with these extreme stories because she knows how much trouble she`s in. And she`s got to justify somehow, well, this is why I did it because I was abused as a kid. Come on, Jane. Nobody believes this. Her dad never touched her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All these documents shockers on hlnTV.com and my editorial Joran up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran van der Sloot has pled guilty to the murder of a young woman he met in Peru.

JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, PLEADS GUILTY TO MURDER (through translator): I want to give a sincere confession. I am truly regretful for what I have done. I feel very bad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Finally he had to face this panel of three judges and finally he admits, yes, I did kill 21-year-old Stephany Flores, but it was the media`s fault for bringing up Natalee Holloway.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His game plan supposedly was to give a sincere confession in an attempt to get leniency. But it sounds like the judge did not like his very serious `tude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is scared; he`s just trying to be lackadaisical about it. But I`m sure he`s scared to death.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I can`t help but think what you`ve covered extensively, the Natalee Holloway case, and her disappearance in 1995, and how her mother, at the most desperate point, going into prison and saying, please, Joran, tell me what happened to Natalee. He was stringing her long, saying, OK, maybe I`ll tell you, maybe I won`t. And you have to think about what she feels today, if she`s looking in his eyes as we are in that courtroom, and wondering if this guy has any feelings, any remorse.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Welcome back, everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City. A huge monster development out of Peru tonight. And now we can officially say Joran van der Sloot is a confessed killer. The young man long suspected of killing Aruban tourist Natalee Holloway, now admits he viciously murdered a young Peruvian woman in his hotel room.

Listen for yourself, does this sound like a man who is really sorry for his actions?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VAN DER SLOOT (through translator): I want on give a sincere confession. I am truly regretful for what I have done. I feel very bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sincere confession? Translation, I want a lenient sentence. There is nothing sincere about this man. Joran van der Sloot would like the whole world to think he just snapped and accidentally hit 21-year-old Stephany Flores in the head.

But the truth is Flores died a horrible bloody agonizing death on the floor of his hotel room and we have got photographs that show you the awful aftermath. And then he tried to cover it up. And it`s all caught on tape. Just about everything.

What`s worse, Joran and his attorney turn around and blame Natalee Holloway for Joran`s troubles, saying Joran endured five years of hell because everybody thought he killed Natalee Holloway back in 2005 in Aruba. And because of that Joran suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder. Are you kidding me?

Listen to what Joran`s attorney says his poor client went through.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUIS JIMENEZ, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT`S ATTORNEY (through translator): We`re sure that with the support from the corresponding experts, it will be determined that Joran was living in a post-traumatic state during the attack. Let`s remember that the fatal morning was the five-year anniversary of the disappearance of the American citizen Natalee Holloway. And he is a young man, 22 years old, who has practically lived persecuted for a crime he says he did not commit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Isn`t he basically calling Natalee Holloway baggage? If that isn`t a classic case of having a pity party and blaming the victim, I don`t know what is. What do you think about Joran`s confession? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to investigative reporter Jon Leiberman. Joran van der Sloot, we can now say it, he`s a confessed killer. He`s going to be sentenced on Friday the 13th, which, for a betting man, which he is, I believe he is a gambling addict, those numbers do not bode well for him.

Even his attorney thinks he could get a 25-year sentence which is not what he should get. I think he should get life, as does the family of Stephany Flores. But why does this all seem contrived and orchestrated to me? Why does this all feel like some kind of play where everybody knew what their role was today?

JON LEIBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Because it was, Jane. I mean, I`ve been doing this a long time and I`ve never seen somebody confess to a murder and manage to re-victimize another family while they`re confessing to the murder of another woman. It was sickening.

I mean, to use the words that he was persecuted and -- you know, by the Natalee Holloway attention that he got and that he was triggered to kill somebody because of the intense media scrutiny from Natalee Holloway in that case? That was absolutely sickening.

As you mention, though, minimum 15 years here. Maximum 30 years here. And I expect that these judges are going to give him toward the high side on this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But isn`t there some system in Peru where you get three days served for every one day? And so even if he gets 25 years, you have got to chop that way down?

LEIBERMAN: Yes, I mean, there is a big "good time" system in place. But keep this in mind, Jane, this guy is still looking at federal charges here in the U.S. for trying to allegedly extort money out of the Holloways in exchange for where her body and what happened to her was.

So this guy will spend plenty of time in prison, perhaps not enough, and certainly not enough for any of the victim`s family. But he will eventually come back here to the U.S. and be tried on those federal charges of extortion.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Last Friday Joran got in trouble for his courtroom antics and the judge had to tell him cut it out. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Will the defendant please stand up? Stand up. You are in a court of law. You have to behave appropriately. You have to sit appropriately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at this guy. He is smiling, grinning from ear to ear today. And this is him last Friday yawning. He fell asleep at one point. There he is. Take a look at that. Yes, he`s having a nap in court. His future at stake. And he`s napping.

You`re charged with murder, Joran, and you can`t stay awake? And then the giggling, the laughing. I want to bring in Cole Thompson, co-author of "Portrait of a Monster," a book about Joran van der Sloot. We`ve all tried analyze him from a psychological perspective.

If I hear "narcissist" one more time about any of these people, Casey, or Joran, let`s -- can we go more in-depth? Can we get a sense of why this man is the way he is? Does it have to do with his relationship with his parents who seemed to deify him? His dad who is now deceased seeming to think that he sort of illustrated all the cool hip qualities that the father, who was nerdy or never had, and just sort of giving him free rein to run wild across the casinos of Aruba?

COLE THOMPSON, AUTHOR, "PORTRAIT OF A MONSTER": Here`s my theory on it. While the family publicly they`ve always supported their son, even when Natalee had disappeared, they said that, you know, he was almost a perfect child, a model student, I don`t think they so much as gave him freedom.

He was living in a small apartment on the family property and there had been some incidents, one in which he allegedly almost beat one of his younger brothers to death. And I think they moved him into that apartment to keep him away from the rest of the family unit.

He was doing damage to his own family. So they knew he was not just a threat to the other young women on the island, other people in general, but a threat to their immediate family.

Now Anita will always say that she`ll support Joran. It was interesting that she was not there today. She said that she would send him money, she would always send him things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s his mom.

THOMPSON: Yes, Anita van der Sloot is his mother. She would always be there for him. She would always provide money, clothes, clean sheets for his bed in his prison cell. She does believe that he committed this crime from what I`ve heard, but she was not there today.

No member of the van der Sloot family was there today. I think he`s been abandoned by everyone.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. Let`s face it, she`d have to be in deep denial not to think he committed it. He confessed on tape at one point and then recanted it. But take a look at the evidence. Joran`s bloody shirt. There`s surveillance video of him and Stephany Flores going into their hotel room. He`s the only one who emerges.

There`s surveillance video showing him knocking at the door when he knows Stephany is dead inside. He`s doing that clearly for the cameras. We`re going to show you that video.

I want to go out to the phone lines. Torie, Vermont, your question or thought, Torie?

CALLER: Hi, Jane, it`s nice to talk to you. You look beautiful tonight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s great to talk to you, thank you so much.

CALLER: My comment was I was watching later this afternoon, Vinnie Politan, that`s his last name, was talking with a body language expert which I found extremely interesting. She was analyzing all of his movements today. And then how after he confessed, he walked over to his lawyer`s table and he just started laughing and he was smiling and he was looking at the camera.

And I just -- I mean, I know this guy is a complete monster, but his behavior is -- I just can`t even comprehend it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, to me.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Torie, good points. To me, Robyn Walensky, he`s a classic addict, and I say that as a person in recovery for 16 years. He`s a gambling addict, he thinks he`s special, the laws don`t apply to him. He`s better than everybody else around him. He has contempt for the whole world, Robyn.

ROBYN WALENSKY, ANCHOR/REPORTER, THEBLAZE.COM: He does. You know, he`s a sick monster and he`s not sorry for anything. And let`s go back to the whole situation in Aruba. Think about this, Jane. Think about what a callous, cold-blooded killer. He was on that beach with Natalee Holloway in Aruba, it`s a very isolated area. I was there covering it back in the day when this all happened.

Think about it. She was from trouble, he doesn`t call 911, and then he disposes of her body? Think about how callous cold-blooded that is. He never got her help. She dies on the beach and then he disposes of the body. That`s what we think happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I just wish we had had a trial. I know that this saved the governor of Peru some trial money, but you know what, it would have been good to establish once and for all they had all the evidence, they didn`t need his confession. They could have locked him up for life if they wanted to. Let`s hope he doesn`t get off easy.

"Toddlers and Tiaras" next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, I need some more research on this. This job keeps me so busy, but I still have time to eat healthy. Check this out. I went up to the cafeteria and got it with my reusable container. Isn`t this beautiful? What a gorgeous array of veggies and even some fruits. And we`re talking carrots, we`re talking eggplant, we`ve got tomatoes, we`ve got corn, we`ve got nuts, we`ve got cranberry, we`ve got carrots, peppers.

Now, you might say, hey, my cafeteria doesn`t have all this. Well, then demand it. Say, I want to eat healthy at work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: Knowing that he`s behind bars will help out. I know we`ve all decided Aruba will never be able to prosecute him and you`ve just step back and say, he`s behind bars and, you know, that`s probably as good as we`re going get.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was Natalee Holloway`s father telling Nancy Grace how he feels about Joran van der Sloot`s confession. You`ve got to watch this entire interview, it`s tonight on Nancy at 8:00 p.m.

And I want to go back to Jon Leiberman, investigative reporter. There are developments in the Natalee Holloway case. Tomorrow a judge in Aruba is going to possibly sign a court order to officially declare Natalee Holloway, which we`re going to show you pictures of, dead.

Now apparently this is something that Dave Holloway wanted. Beth Holloway had initially apparently been reluctant, and now she apparently won`t contest it. Tell us what you know.

LEIBERMAN: When I was at "America`s Most Wanted," this was something that some members of the family had been pushing for, for a very long time. What in effect this would do is it would essentially in some ways re-open the investigation. Not that it was ever closed. But it will reinvigorate the investigation.

And hopefully, hopefully there will be some progress here now in terms of bringing Joran or somebody to justice here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, because they say "no body, no case," but if they establish that she`s dead, then maybe even without her body having been found, her remains were covered, they still might be able to file murder charges, especially in light of his confession to murdering another woman. Thank you so much. Fantastic panel.

Now an unbelievable tiara story. Check this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): It`s one thing for an adult woman to compete in a pageant. They can make that choice themselves.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think symptomatic of this problem that we`re seeing of the sexualization of really very young girls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some parents will do anything to make their kids famous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isabella, are you all excited to watch yourself on TV on December 7th for the first time?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: An unbelievable new video just surfacing fueling the debate over what`s too sexy for kids. Beauty pageant princess and "Toddlers & Tiaras" star Isabella Barrett caught on tape singing along to popular sex-fueled songs at a New York hot spot. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): I`m sexy and I know it!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wooooo!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): I`m sexy and I know it!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. In that video, you can see her mom standing right next to her, cheering her on. Isabella is one of the stars of the hit TLC show "Toddlers & Tiaras," a show known to push the boundaries of sexualization of little girls. Take a look at some of the highlights from TLC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Work it! Wooo!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy! (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. You`re seeing this along with me, little girls wearing Madonna comb bras. So tonight we`re asking, is the sexy song raising the bar and is it a part of a process of objectifying young girls and sexualizing them at a younger and younger age? Give me a call, what do you think? 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Straight out to my special exclusive guest, Susanna Barrett.

Thank you so much for joining us, along with your daughter, Isabella. And first I`d like to thank for you coming on and saying -- I would like to say that I give you credit, I give you kudos, I give you points for talking to us and having a discussion so that maybe we can all reach a higher understanding of this subject.

I`m not accusing you of anything. You`re not one of these parents who is taping their kids to walls or abandoning them. We cover horror stories every night on this show. So you`re not in that category. We`re just asking whether maybe having your daughter sing at a night club the song about being sexy and knowing it might be sexualizing her at too young an age and hurt her.

What are your thoughts and why did you allow this to happen?

SUSANNA BARRETT, MOTHER OF BEAUTY PAGEANT CONTESTANT: Well, first, I`m very happy to be here to clear this up. The first thing that I`d like to say is the woman in the video is not me obviously. That is a celebrity deejay. Number two is that I`m a successful business owner. I own a pet boutique. And the reason I`m telling that you is because we went to a private charity event to support a pet charity and it was also for children`s charity.

It was a private event. Isabella was asked to get in costume and come. A lot of people like to see her in her costume and sign autographs and take pictures. And it was a pet-friendly event, as well. So Isabella got to play with the pets while she was there.

There were vendors there. We shopped. We bought a sweater for our puppy. And I think that when this video came out, I was horrified because it is actually nothing to what is being portrayed. And it is not a night club -- I mean, I had never been there before. They have a menu for lunch. They have a nice menu for dinner. There was no dance floor. So there`s a big misconception going on here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, OK. So you`re saying did you it for charity and that, hey, it was a night club maybe by night, but by -- it was a different situation there. I know you say you love animals, so I assume that`s a faux fur. Let`s hope so anyway.

On the other side, we`re going to talk to your daughter and take some calls. Hang in there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think it`s appropriate for a 5-year-old girl to be singing the lyrics "I`m sexy and I know it"?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that it is completely inappropriate for a 5-year-old to be doing that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that maybe the mother, if she wants to do that, she should be doing it and not forcing her child to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s sending out a bad message to parents and to younger kids that, you know, you need to stay in your age bracket, stay in an age-appropriate behavior and manner and things of that nature. So, yes, I don`t agree with that at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So 5-year-old Isabella Barrett sang this song, it`s a hit song, it`s definitely not a kids song, let`s look at the LMFAO music video from YouTube.

(VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. All right. Let`s see Isabella. Let`s see little Isabella.

Isabella, there you are. OK. That`s an adult song, OK? You sang a version of it that was for -- that was your version but it`s still the same adult song. What were your feelings about being there and participating in that event that night -- or that day?

S. BARRETT: She wants to know about did you have fun? Tell her.

ISABELLA BARRETT, BEAUTY PAGEANT CONTESTANT, "TODDLERS & TIARAS": I had lots and lots of fun. I pet all the puppies and I bought a sweater for my dog, I bought cookies for my dog.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So clearly, Mom, Susanna, she doesn`t understand what she`s singing, but do you think that for her to be singing about being sexy when she doesn`t know what sexy means, and there she is singing it, "I`m sexy and I know it" -- go ahead.

S. BARRETT: Yes. Another misconception. We -- Isabella was supposed to get up and just say her name. This song was playing. It wasn`t pre- rehearsed. In fact, she sang a few songs that were playing, she sang Rihanna, she sang a few songs.

So when she went up there and she has a song that she sings at pageants that she wrote and I want -- you know, we`ll talk about pageants after, but I mean this was something that was exploited, I feel, because it -- we were at a private event, the deejay pulled her up on stage to talk, the song was on, and you can clearly see the deejay saying, you know, "look at me, I`m strong."

And Isabella started to get into it and the crowd was getting into it and she was singing. And then she sang another song after that but, of course, that wasn`t as controversial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Rihanna`s songs are somewhat controversial as well. I mean, Rihanna has a song about -- I don`t even want to say it because your child is right there. I don`t know if it`s appropriate or kids watching.

S. BARRETT: As a mom of an 18-year-old and a 5-year-old, I have to say that, you know, a lot of times even like kid songs are mixed down, they take, you know, teen and tween songs, these are top 40 hits that are on the radio. We do listen to the radio. We do listen to top 40.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to jump in. Let`s get to this. When another contestant on "Toddlers & Tiaras," Paisley (ph), dressed as Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman," you could see her here on TLC, Isabella said something to her. Listen to this from TMZ.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

I. BARRETT: Paisley was trying to copy me. My mother doesn`t dress me up like a -- as a hooker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. How does she know the word hooker?

S. BARRETT: Well, unfortunately, Paisley is someone who she`s competed against and that story was a mainstream.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Susanna, now that you`ve explained about your daughter`s song and how it came about, I think it makes a lot of sense. But what about this word "hooker"?

S. BARRETT: Well, we had come off that day, we had come off a lot of press, and I`ll be honest with you, I should never have portrayed my views through my child. But I`m sick and tired of answering the question, what do you think of the woman that dressed her daughter up like the "H"?

And I just want to say, for us, we`ve been doing this 10 months. We got into this because my older daughter had a traumatic injury to her face, and we wanted to build her confidence. We`re having a great time with it.

I`m here to just -- I want people to know that from our family we`re having a positive experience and we don`t want people to think that we`re trying to exploit Isabella in any way. She is a wonderful and this is her outlet to shine.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. I think you`re a great mom. I know you`re trying your best, your intentions are wonderful. Thank you, again, for taking the time and talking to us about it, because now we understand a whole lot more. Thank you. Bye, Isabella!

"NANCY GRACE" next.

END