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Bizarre Testimony in Scuba Killer Trial; Looking for Baby Lisa

Aired February 21, 2012 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City.

Dramatic testimony in the trial of a husband accused of killing his brand-new bride during a honeymoon scuba-diving trip in Australia. The victim`s best friend recounts the very bizarre things the victim`s husband said after his wife`s death.

Tonight bizarre statements and secrets exposed as a man stands trial for his new bride`s murder. Did he kill her while scuba diving on their honeymoon? The victim`s best friend breaks down on the stand. Is it enough to convince a jury? I will have all the details coming right up.

Also violence at the happiest place on earth. A man caught on camera screaming curse words, throwing punches at a Disney employee. Were both adults out of control? And what is this teaching our children?

Plus Rihanna and Chris Brown back together? What? Even though Chris viciously beat up Rihanna only three years ago, the former lovers have released two songs together this week. And you won`t believe the lyrics on those songs. Does this professional makeup session mean a secret new romantic connection? What kind of message does this send to young women about the consequences of being beaten up? I`m taking your calls.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pledge their love before us today.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell the camera bye.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blow the camera a kissy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Newlyweds from Alabama on a honeymoon scuba- diving trip to the Great Barrier Reef. Tina`s body in the background in that circle as we pan out. Lifeless on the ocean floor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tried, convicted and imprisoned for killing his newlywed wife in 2003, Gabe Watson was released from prison in Australia.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state has to prove that he killed her, and they can`t do it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now he sits behind bars again on charges in the U.S. that he killed his wife.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight secrets are spilling. The so-called honeymoon scuba killer trial.

Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City.

Did Gabe Watson kill his bride of just 11 days while they were scuba diving in Australia? Or was it equipment failure? And will the jury get to see this dramatic police reenactment that shows how somebody could have turned off Tina Watson`s oxygen supply just long enough to kill her? That`s what cops say what they think happened.

Gabe and his wife, Tina, had been married for less than two weeks people when she died during a dive with her husband off of Australia`s Great Barrier Reef. Prosecutors believe Gabe Watson cut off his wife`s oxygen supply to cash in on her insurance policy. The dead woman`s father calls the events completely surreal.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It never happens to you or your family. It happens to someone else. You never think that your daughter will leave for her honeymoon, and her husband will kill her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Their son-in-law, Gabe Watson, served 18 months for manslaughter in Australia. When he came back to the United States, cops arrested him again and accused him of murdering his wife, Tina.

So my question is, how can they try somebody in the United States for a crime that happened in Australia? We`re going to answer that with the experts.

Tina Watson`s best friend and her maid of honor blasted Gabe Watson from the witness stand, saying he made very, very creepy comments after his wife`s death. Listen to this doozy.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said, "She looks very pretty in that outfit."

And he said -- he said, "Well, at least her breasts are perky."


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. At least her breasts are perky? At the funeral?

Did I mention that Gabe Watson is already remarried to a woman the media calls a Tina Watson lookalike who went to high school with Gabe? Did he carry a torch for her all these years? Look how similar.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse us. We`d like to walk please.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. I presume that`s the wife walking into court. It`s difficult to fathom somebody going through the motions of a wedding and honeymoon only to murder their new spouse 11 days later, under water no less where it`s very hard to, well, put yellow tape around the crime scene, for example. But that`s exactly what Tina Watson`s family believes happened. Will a jury agree?

Give me a holler on this one: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. I want to hear from you.

Straight out to legal editor Jen Hager. Jen, you`ve been digging in this case. What have you learned?

JEN HAGER, LEGAL EDITOR, RADARONLINE.COM: Well, today the judge at the end of the court session has ruled that the jury will not see the reenactment that the Australian police filmed soon after Tina Watson was killed. This is going to be a huge setback for the prosecution. They fought very hard to get this in. And this is a big victory for his defense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And we`re looking at that reenactment right now as you speak. So just so people can understand, right there the cops are illustrating how they suspect Gabe Watson shut off his new bride of 11 days` oxygen supply, let her go unconscious, and then let her drop to the ocean floor without pursuing her, while he heads up to seek help. Proceed, Jen Hager.

HAGER: Yes. It was also a very, very emotional day in the courtroom in Alabama today, because we had the medical examiner from Australia take the stand and autopsy photos of Tina were shown. And Tina`s father, who has been in court every day since this trial began, sits right next to the jury. Had to get up and leave when those horrific photos were shown to the jury. It`s just too much for him to handle. The medical examiner testified that...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, we`re going to get -- we`re going to get to all of that. I`m sorry, Jen. But we want to break it down a little bit, because it`s a lot to process.

We just found out, as you heard from Jen, that the judge is not going to allow the jury to see that videotaped reenactment of how police suspect Tina Watson drowned. And the video shows two divers, who are cops, one of them pretending to disconnect the oxygen supply on the other`s tank.

He`s -- Gabe Watson was an experienced diver. She was not. Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, this is a huge blow to the prosecution. Why do you think that the judge wouldn`t allow this in when it illustrates what the cops say happened?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, I think it was a close call for the judge. Because reenactments can be very helpful for jurors when they are not experts in a particular field. And certainly, they were -- it`s hard to prove to a jury what was going on under water with words. So it`s really important to give them a sense of perspective. I might have let it in.

The problem is, the judge had to worry about too much variation in the real facts and what facts were present under water at the time the reenactment was made. So the jury might think, "Oh, boy, we really think he`s guilty because we saw such and such in the reenactment" and maybe that wasn`t actually present at the time of the incident. So it can be very unfair for the defense. I think it was a close call.

But you know what`s so funny, Jane? What did O.J. Simpson get to do? It`s kind of like a reenactment. The glove doesn`t fit so you must acquit. Remember that. How come he was allowed to put on a downright farce in front of that jury. And look what happened there. Prosecutors are held to a tougher standard. I`m not sure they should always be held...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And remember, when he tried it on, if I remember correctly, he had a rubber glove underneath it, which made it even tighter. And he`s -- I mean, that was -- it was the moment that lost the case, frankly, because it gave Johnny Cochran that great line: "If it doesn`t fit, you`ve got to acquit." It will go down in history.

Here`s what Gabe Watson told Australian police. This is the defendant in his own words right after his wife`s death.


GABE WATSON, ON TRIAL FOR WIFE`S MURDER: Going through my head, but I just remember thinking, I can chase her down to the bottom, get down to the bottom and either dump her weights, let her -- dump everything. Let her rocket to the top, cause at that point I knew something was going on. I thought, well, you know, hell you know, busted lung or whatever`s better than what in my mind I was thinking was to happen.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, Watson pleaded guilty to manslaughter and served 18 months in an Australian prison, basically admitting that he failed to save his wife. And we have a photo that actually was taken by somebody else in the dive group that literally shows Gabe Watson right there and the wife at the bottom of the ocean. How extraordinary is it to have evidence like this?

Now Dr. Dale Archer, we usually go to you as a clinical psychiatrist, which you are, but you`re also a master diver. What does this show you when you see that this woman is there at the bottom? And he says, "Well, oh, I didn`t want to go down there. I wanted to go get help. So I went up to the surface and went to get help." Meantime, by the time he got help, she was gone.

DALE ARCHER, MASTER DIVER: Well, I`m a certified rescue diver. And supposedly, he was a certified rescue diver. And the No. 1 thing you learn as a rescue diver, when someone is in trouble, you`ve got to get them to the surface. That`s rule No. 1.

So it breaks every single tenet of scuba diving. When a problem occurs, you have to get them up as fast as possible. And here you see him and her in the picture. It almost looks like he`s looking down at her as he`s heading up. So either A, he forgot everything he learned, or B, there was a sinister motive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Chris, Pennsylvania. Your question or thought, Chris.

CALLER: Yes, my question is, I`m not an expert or anything, but wouldn`t someone be weightless, that it would be easy to bring you to the surface?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, actually, and I`ll go back to Jen Hager. There was all sorts of testimony and evidence about the amount of weights she had on her, and the claims by the defense were, oh, they were giving her weights that were way too heavy. And that`s why she didn`t rise to the surface and she plummeted to the ground. So they`re kind of blaming the equipment, as it were.

HAGER: Absolutely. The defense is going to do everything in their power to get the jury to look at anyone else or any other cause for the reason to acquit their client. Yes. They did argue vehemently in court about how much weight was on her, and this prevented her from rising to the surface.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, on the other side of the break, we`re going to have the famous Judge Karen Mills, who`s going to answer two questions for us. One, how can they try him here in the United States when this happened in Australia? And B, since he was convicted in Australia, isn`t it double jeopardy?

And we`re taking your calls, so stay right there. A fascinating case.

Also ahead, Rihanna teams up with her ex-, Chris Brown. Remember the same guy who used her face as a punching bag just three years ago? Why is she doing this? What kind of message does it send to women? I`m taking your calls on that one, too.

But first, did an alleged killer have the world`s unluckiest honeymoon ever or did he try to stage the perfect murder to collect the insurance money?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn`t a plausible story. It didn`t make sense. Bells were going off in my head at every point, everything he told me.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tried, convicted and imprisoned for killing his newlywed wife in 2003, Gabe Watson was released from prison in Australia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gabe Watson remains silent walking into court with his current wife for the trial of the 2003 drowning death of his bride of 11 days, Tina Thomas Watson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tina Thomas Watson lost her life in 2003. Tina drowned to death while diving in the Great Barrier Reef with then-husband Gabe, who is on trial for killing her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After the funeral, Watson joked he was glad he didn`t pay more money for a million-dollar joint life insurance policy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re just one step closer to getting justice and peace for Tina. And that`s the most important thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s what we want is justice for -- for our daughter.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The dead woman`s best friend told the court that the dead woman`s husband, who`s now on trial, Gabe Watson, made very inappropriate comments about an insurance policy he took out on his wife. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For $10 more, Tina could have had a million- dollar life insurance policy. And it`s a good thing we didn`t do that, because otherwise I`d be in Australia in an Australian jail by now on involuntary manslaughter charges.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: ABC reports Watson actually took his wife`s engagement ring off at her funeral home, off her finger. At the funeral home. Prosecutors maintain money was the motive, that Gabe Watson thought he could get $130,000 in insurance money. And it turns out he was wrong. He didn`t understand the policies. He did not get a penny.

Straight out to Judge Karen Mills of "Judge Karen," the great show we`ve all seen.

Judge Karen, two questions I think we`re all curious. One, he was found guilty of involuntary negligent manslaughter and served 18 months in Australia. So isn`t this double jeopardy to now charge an American with murder? And B, how can they charge him and try him in America for something that happened in Australia?

KAREN MILLS, "JUDGE KAREN": Yes. It`s a really strange case, but double jeopardy has to do with the -- with two different prosecuting agencies cannot bring the same charge twice.

For instance, the state of Alabama, if you lose this case, you can`t bring it again. Because the jurisdiction was Australia, the state of Alabama has the right to bring the charge.

What`s really -- you see this a lot in federal government cases. You`ll see where the state of Florida couldn`t get a conviction for racketeering, say. So the federal government will bring the same charge against the defendant in federal court.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Why isn`t it double jeopardy?

MILLS: Federal courts have ruled that that`s not double jeopardy.


MILLS: As long as it`s not the same prosecuting body. It`s not the same state prosecuting the person.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And quickly, why can you do this in America when she died in Australia?

MILLS: Alabama has a statute that says that the state can bring a murder charge if they can prove one of two things. One, that the crime was committed in Alabama, or two that the defendant formed the intent to commit the murder in Alabama.


MILLS: I have done a lot of research. I cannot find another case in the two days that I`ve been trying to find a case where this has been done.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s unique. Judge -- Judge Karen, let me move on because I want to cover some other issues.

Gabe Watson remarried a girl he knew back in high school. We`ve got to ask the question: who marries a man charged with murdering his first wife by undoing her oxygen? First wife Tina, killed, on the left. Second wife, Kim, on the right. Gabe Watson had known Kim since high school. By the way, these two look quite similar. Talk about stand by your man.

Jen Hager, what do you know?

HAGER: Yes, Jane, you bring up very, very interesting points. Why would this woman marry him, given the charges that he is now facing with the murder of his first wife of only 11 days?

Certainly, the prosecutors are going to be delving more into the relationship between Gabe and his current wife, who he went to high school with. How long had they known each other for? Had they been in communication prior to his wedding to his first wife? These are all answers the jury and the public wants to know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We get the picture. And by the way, that wife invited on our show any time at all. Thank you, fabulous panel.

Up next, Disneyland chaos.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. We`re back with Baby Lisa in a moment. But first your "Viral Video of the Day."








UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Their daughter was missing. He`s not sure how long she`s been gone and the screen was burst through.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came home from work. The front door was unlocked.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did anything look out of place, other than her not being there?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. No. It`s like they just walked in and just disappeared.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight a new layer of mystery in the disappearance of Baby Lisa Irwin. She was just ten months old when her parents reported her missing, October 4.

Now a so-called mystery man police interviewed four times just arrested in an unrelated assault. Police say Dane Gratehouse stabbed a man he claimed was stealing things from his car. This guy denies any involvement in Baby Lisa`s disappearance. He has never been called a suspect. We want to stress that.

But here`s why police interviewed him four times. It`s complicated. Try to follow along with me. Lisa`s parents say that their baby was snatched from her crib while sleeping. And they say at the same time, three of their cell phones were stolen.

Well, that night somebody using one of those phones tried to call the phone owned by pink-haired lady Megan Wright, who lived in this community home with a lot of other people. Dane Gratehouse had access to Megan`s phone, and cops wonder, well, was that call intended for him?

Ron Ruben, you`re a private investigator down there on the ground in Kansas City. What do you make of this latest development? What are the theories anyway?

RON RUBEN, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, as far as Dane being arrested over the weekend, it`s not a huge surprise. Just from the information I have gathered regarding his character, I texted with Dane following Baby Lisa`s disappearance some months later. And I asked him if maybe we could get together and talk so that he could make himself irrelevant.

And his somewhat of a wise-guy comment back to me was, "If you`ll fill my gas tank every day and give me $100,000 in Benjamins, then we can talk."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. I mean, obviously, the question is were those cell phones really stolen, or was the call made by either Baby Lisa`s mom or somebody in the house? And if so, why was that call made? Was it because she was already drunk, having consumed at least five glasses of wine by her own admission, and she was looking for something? Something else? We don`t know. We don`t have the answer to that question.

She claims that she did not have that phone in her possession. This is the mother.

No suspects have been named in this case. Lisa`s dad reported the baby missing at 4 in the morning October 4 when he came home from work and couldn`t find his little baby.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The front door was unlocked. Most of the lights were on in the house. And the window was -- in the front was open. Obviously, all very unusual. I started checking on the kids. I checked on the boys first. Then I checked on her. That`s when we realized she was gone.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: He ran to the neighbor`s house thinking maybe the neighbors had her. Very briefly, what`s the story with them?

RUBEN: Well, the neighbors went to counseling earlier that day around 1 p.m. I spoke to the gentleman next door this past week and visited with him for an hour. And he said they`d been to counseling. He left and went to spend the night at a friend`s house, supposedly. And his wife received a text message from him around 5:10 when she walked in the door. And they had been estranged ever since. He`s now living back next door, and she`s living with her mother.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. We`re going to stay on top of this mystery. Thank you so much, Ron. Come back soon.

Appalling video of adults behaving badly, very badly.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A video posted on shows a 53-year- old man shouting obscenities and punching a Disney employee.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop. There are kids here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s completely inappropriate. There`s so many children that are going to Disneyland, visiting out of town.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this guy has been drinking vodka.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether or not the alcohol was the catalyst for what caused the argument, I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get down on the ground. Get down on the ground. This is ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s unfortunate it progressed that far that they had to jump in.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is security? I don`t believe it.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: The happiest place on earth? Really? Violence exploded at the happiest place on earth. A man gets into a brawl with a Disney cast member and it`s all caught on video, of course.

Good evening everyone. Jane Velez-Mitchell back with you live from New York.

This happened at Disney`s California Adventure, literally right next to Disneyland outside the Tower of Terror ride. A scene of real terror with little kids watching this craziness. Somebody recorded the whole thing and put it on YouTube, of course.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop. My God. What are you, drunk? Stop.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch out dude.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The Disney employee doused the man on the ground with pepper spray. Then he didn`t stay down. Watch as the fight continues while bystanders screamed "Security, security".



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop. Get down on the ground. Get down on the ground. This is ridiculous.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The Disney guest in this brawl, Glenn Horlacher booked for assault and battery then released on a citation. Anaheim police tell us, they`re not releasing any incident reports as the investigation is active.

And Mr. Horlacher, you are invited on our show to give your side of the story. But I want to hear from our viewers at home, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. I`ve been to the Tower of Terror. I thought it was a fun ride.

Straight out to Ulysses Floyd one the famed violent interrupters in Chicago; Ulysses, what does this say about our culture that this kind of violence now is breaking out at a Disney theme park?

ULYSSES FLOYD, CEASEFIRE SUPERVISOR: Well, first of all, I`d like to say that violence is a learned behavior. And clearly, this man has some issues. Whether he was impaired by alcohol or some substance abuse altered his mind or whatever, he clearly had issues. And at Ceasefire, we don`t deal with issues or conditions. We try to change the mind set of our violence. We teach them that is not the norm.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. Let`s take a look at this again. Then we`re going to talk to a former prosecutor who has five children, the one and only Wendy Murphy. Because this is supposed to be a haven from this kind of thing; this is where you take your kids where the world is a happy place.

Listen to this scene from YouTube. A woman watching the fight, she is outraged that this is happening in front of kids.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are kids here. There are kids here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down on the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are kids here. Do they not get that? You`re at Disneyland. Get down on the ground. You`re in Disneyland.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are kids here.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The parents standing around absolutely outraged that their kids are being exposed to this. We tell kids do not be violent. But why should they listen to us if they see adults around them fighting all the time? It`s do as I say, not do as I do. This guy is 53 years old.

Wendy Murphy, I know you`re a mother of five. What can we do to change this culture of violence?

WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Boy, if I had the answer to that question. A lot of it has to do with money, Jane, as you know. Obviously, if we`ve reached a stage where this is happening at Disneyland, things are way past out of control. I`ve been in Disneyland and waited a long time for rides that made me crazy and still people are sweating and they still don`t engage in any aggression or violence, you think, at that one safe place. And kids should be able to go to some place where they are not forced to, you know, experience video games or fighting.

I mean I don`t know what`s wrong with our culture. I think the concept of civility has been flushed down the toilet in this country a long time ago. It`s primarily about the fact that we constantly put profits over civility, over the nature of humanity. And, you know, if I were in charge, if I owned a network, I would be putting very different things in media. I would be selling different kinds of video games. I`d be putting different kinds of things on television.

But I don`t own a network, Jane. And I think, you know, you show videos like this and you condemn it and you scream and yell about it. You still, nevertheless because it`s coming from the Internet where millions of people are going to watch it and in a sense celebrate it -- some adults were laughing, laughing about this. You can hear them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, adults in name only.


MURPHY: How do you teach a child against that pressure?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Take a look at this scene because this is what I asked myself. Did this Disney employee act appropriately? Or did he sort of go to town with the pepper spray? Watch this very carefully from YouTube.

After the initial fight, the guy who appears drunk is just sort of standing there. I don`t know if he us, but he appears that way, just standing there. Watch this very carefully.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sprayed it on the eyes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop. Get down on the ground. Get down on the ground. This is ridiculous.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Judge Karen, you saw it right there. The guy is standing around. So maybe he`s intoxicated. He was originally inappropriate. He gets up and he`s kind of like this. Then out of nowhere, the employee sprays him again with pepper spray. I have actually been sprayed with pepper spray because I`ve been a reporter too long and they`ve done everything to me.

JUDGE KAREN MILLS FRANCIS: It just got out of hand. The portion of the video I saw from the beginning, it started with the 53-year-old guy cursing at the guard. It didn`t start with him throwing a swing.

My other question about this, we have to look at Disney. They don`t serve alcohol at that park, which means that this guy had to come on to the park wasted or he came on to the park and got drunk because he brought something in. I kind of doubt that.

But I don`t think this is an issue about violence. This guy is 53 years old. He grew up in a town where there weren`t any video games and a lot of violence on TV. I don`t want to say you were blaming it on the alcohol, but that`s what we`re doing.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, unfortunately, as a recovering alcoholic, I can tell you that alcohol does create -- alcohol or drugs create most of the problems that we covered on our show -- or greed, those three things.

Here`s the Disney statement. Our security cast member was taken to a local hospital where he was treated for the injuries he sustained and then released. We appreciate the actions of the guests who came to his aid during this uncharacteristic incident."

And I do agree it`s uncharacteristic. I love Disneyland. I`ve had a great time there. And it is for the most part the happiest place on earth. Not to knock Disneyland, but it`s more like these people and their behavior.

Cody in Pennsylvania, your question or thought.

CODY, PENNSYLVANIA (via telephone): Hey, Jane. I`m watching the show right now. A friend of mine actually e-mailed this to me earlier. I`m really surprised to see something like this end up in a random -- I`m surprised the guy actually ended up like getting up as many times as he did. But I really don`t think this is appropriate behavior for an amusement park. I have seen stuff like this go on right in front of my eyes. I don`t know. I`m glad he got arrested and I`m glad he didn`t --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cody, I think you make a good point. Here`s my point. I`m wondering if these kinds of things have always gone on. But now with these little guys, we`re starting to see it more.

Maybe there`s an opportunity because I think that when you shine the spotlight on something and you analyze it, you can reveal it for what it is and do something about it. I think brawls have been going on since there were fists. And now we`re starting to see the level of violence that exists in humanity.

Thank you, panel.

Next, Rihanna and Chris Brown -- speaking of violence -- reunite after, well, you remember. It was just three years ago he bashed her face in. I`m dying to hear what you think about this. Why are they together singing? You won`t believe what they are singing. The lyrics, we`re going to play them for you in a second. 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Let`s all figure this out together, give me a call.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want girls to be careful. I want them -- you know, have fund. Be flirtatious, be sassy, be innocent and sweet. Be everything that you are, but just try not to be naive.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rihanna and Chris Brown collaborating again.

Ready to forgive Brown after he pleaded guilty to assaulting Rihanna.

RIHANNA, SINGER: It was a really dark time for me. It`s hard to ever just completely get rid of, but I`m in a different place now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brown tweeted ex-girlfriend Rihanna to wish her a happy birthday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a dilemma. I would like to see them kind of go their separate ways and start over. But who am I to tell them who to love?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Singer Rihanna and her ex-boyfriend Chris Brown hooking up again, musically at the very least; both singers releasing new songs this week featuring each other. But it shocked and actually disappointed a lot of fans since it was only three years ago that Chris viciously beat Rihanna the day before the 2009 Grammys.

Remember this graphic photo from TMZ? Look at it for a couple seconds. I wouldn`t necessarily be against it if they made a song about nonviolence, for example. But these lyrics, well, this song is a giant x- rated booty call. Listen to this song "Birthday Cake".




VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s got a nice beat but in case you couldn`t hear the lyrics, Chris Brown raps, quote, "Girl I want to f you right now. Been a long time. I`ve been missing your body."

And then Rihanna replies later in the song, quote, "Put a candle on my mf back baby blow it. Love the way you do when you do it like that."

What do you think? I`m blushing right now. Call me. 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-9297.

Straight out to Gloria Allred, famed victims` rights attorney. Gloria, what are the implications of this? What message does this say to young women and young men?

GLORIA ALL RED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, it does concern me. It concerns me because clearly she was a victim of violence. He pled guilty to felony assault of her. He did get probation. He`s still on probation. And although they`re allowed to be near each other because the stay-away order was modified, the question is, where is this going next?

Are they not only going to make a song together or are they going to go back together as a couple? I hope she doesn`t go back because often domestic violence just increases over time and in severity. I`m concerned about her and the lure that he may have for her, Jane.

And I don`t know that he`s benefited from the domestic violence counseling that he has had. He may have, but he`s evidenced a lot of belligerence and anger. For example, after the Grammy awards when some people tweeted that he shouldn`t have gotten an award because he beat a woman namely Rihanna and then he had a very, very aggressive and strong response to that. So I wonder about whether he has really learned about anger management control.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And let me say, I`m holding the progress report. He is getting raised for his probation and what he`s done to complete his probation and the process of completing it.

But I have to go back to the original police report and some of the things -- he punched her in the left eye with his right hand. He drove away in the vehicle and continued to punch her in the face with his right hand. Her mouth filled with blood. Blood spattered all over her clothing. It goes on and on and on for pages.

After that assault, Rihanna spoke out against domestic violence and she actually gave advice to women going through the same thing. Here`s ABC.


RIHANNA: I`ll say that to any young girl who is going through domestic violence. Don`t react off of love. F love. To come out of the situation and look at it third person and for what it really is, and then make your decision because love is so blind.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jawn Murray, entertainment journalist, pop culture expert, I feel bad talking about this because I`m a huge fan of Rihanna`s music. The sound is great. It`s pumping. It`s danceable. I can`t stop feeling good when I listen to the music. She`s very talented.

I thought Chris Brown`s dancing and performances on the Grammy were incredible. But we cannot ignore this police report, this beating. And the lyrics, the lyrics that she is reciting on this song with Chris Brown - - it feels demeaning.

JAWN MURRAY, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: Jane, listen. I co-sign on what you said earlier. It`s definitely an x-rated booty call. I would have liked for them to have done a song a little more positive song. Maybe even taking a -- more of addressing what happened and moving on approach.

Here`s the thing. They did this song because they want the public to say, look. We have moved on. We want you to move on. But all it`s doing is having people revisit what happened three years ago. I`m all for second chances. I believe Chris should have a second chance. But the two of them are a combustible combination and it makes me nervous as well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you. Rihanna doesn`t need Chris Brown. She`s incredibly talented on her own.

MURRAY: As is he.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I have to say -- as is he. They`re both very talented.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Cathy, Pennsylvania, your question or thought Cathy.

CATHY, PENNSYLVANIA (via telephone): Yes. I would just like to say I think she`s crazy because if he hit her once, he`ll do it again.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely, Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor. You have prosecuted these cases. And especially if he still has some anger issues, to wit, these very, very aggressive tweets where he`s dropping f bombs, et cetera.

MURPHY: Look, I don`t want to talk about him because I completely am uninterested in him. I think he`s a violent man. I don`t care about him.

I am really angry at her. I mean I am fed up with this chick. I don`t even care that much about the x-rated lyrics. Sex is fine. She`s a grown up. I don`t care if she wants to sing about her own sex life. She sang a song after he beat the hell out of her that went something like "I love it when you beat me". Then another one about love whips and chains. This chick needs a tune-up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to talk more about that on the other side and play some of her videos.

Your laugh break is on next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re back with more Rihanna and Chris in a minute. But first, you deserve a laugh break.





VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. That is Rihanna`s super hit "S & M" from Death Jam. Rihanna has definitely a theme running through some of her music, a kinky theme, you might say. That`s her video "S & M". And she also doesn`t seem to have gotten over Chris Brown. In fact, she cast a look alike in her most recent video also from Death Jam.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s one of my favorite songs. I really love that song. Dr. Dale Archer, clinical psychiatrist, however I must ask, is it possible that this young woman is into S & M as is the title of her hit song and somehow also possibly addicted to Chris Brown, obsessed with him?

DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I think she`s definitely addicted to Chris Brown, as many women that are the victim of abuse are. Look, most women that are abused, they can`t wait when they finally escape to get out of there. They never want to see that guy again.

Here she is going back, but we have to remember it`s not just the physical abuse. It`s emotional abuse. It`s verbal abuse. It`s psychological abuse. Their self-esteem is crushed and they become brainwashed. This guy basically tells them they`re so bad but he is there for them, he is going to protect them, he is going to be with them so that they almost think they deserve to be abused.

So in this particular case I worry about her having any contact with him. I think she`s at very, very high risk to relapse and end up back with him. And I think the exact same thing could happen again.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: By the way, I mean, whatever proclivity she may have, that`s supposed to be safe play in a bedroom. That`s very different from violence -- violence, hitting, punching. Those are two completely different things.

All right. Let`s go back out to the phone lines. Tina, California, your question or thought, Tina?

TINA, CALIFORNIA (via telephone): You know, my question is I need to find out where do you find that a person has -- can show remorse? That`s what I want to know. Everybody in society says you can be forgiven. You can get a second chance. But in public opinion, you can`t get that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I see your point. Let`s face it. a lot of celebrities have spoken out about this. Here`s the problem, and I won`t say it, let the one and only Oprah say it. Check this out.


OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: If the man hits you once, he will hit you again.


WINFREY: He will hit you again. I don`t care what his plea is. He will hit you again.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gloria Allred, a lot of people are saying perhaps we`re being harsh and not forgiving Chris Brown. But Oprah`s making an incredible point. Oprah`s making a great point, isn`t she Gloria, about if he hit you once, he could hit you again?

ALLRED: I think she`s making a very important point, Jane. And I think, you know, it`s really not about forgiving him, it`s about his changing his behavior. And is his behavior going to change or is he going to continue to be violent? I`m concerned about the danger to Rihanna and the danger potentially to any other women in his life.

And, by the way, is this the first time perhaps that anyone is trying to profit from making a music video where both have been known now for involvement in domestic violence?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gloria, more on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: If Rihanna is listening, what would you tell her starting with Jawn Murray?

MURRAY: I would say, "Rihanna, this is a bad idea." I`m all for forgiveness, but not the commercialization of it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Gloria Allred, what would you say to Rihanna?

ALLRED: I would say, Rihanna, you are a victim of violence. Get counseling from someone who really knows about violence and get the kind of support you need so that you do not go back to Chris Brown. It`ll never be worth it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And what I would say is, Rihanna, you don`t need Chris Brown. She`s gorgeous. She`s very, very creative. She has a great musical sense. She`s a superstar, one of the top. We saw that on the Grammys when she performed. Why does she need to be doing a medley with this guy about bootie calls? Sweetheart, stand up for yourself. Celebrate yourself as a woman.

"NANCY GRACE" is next.