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Former Sheriff Arrested on Drug, Prostitution Charges

Aired April 5, 2012 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City, a former sheriff of the year, leading a double life of drugs and sex, and it`s all caught on tape. His secret`s blown wide open in an undercover sting. Tonight he`s sitting in the very jail that was named in his honor.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, shock and disbelief as the secret life of a former sheriff is exposed. He made his name as a tough crime fighter, but cops say they caught Pat Sullivan trading drugs for sex with a man. You`ll see the undercover sting operation that busted this married father, right here tonight.

Plus, we`re asking why the former sheriff was only sentenced to 30 days in jail for drug possession and soliciting a prostitute. We`ll take your calls.

And new developments in the Trayvon Martin shooting. Now George Zimmerman`s two defense attorneys are fighting back. And there`s brand-new debate over what he really said in that 911 call. We`ll bring you the latest.

Plus inside the mind of Whitney Houston on the very day she died. What does the new toxicology report tell us about the legendary singer`s struggle with substance abuse? What steps was Whitney taking to try and look like she was under control?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything but the average drug suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The former sheriff disgraced the badge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Busted in a basic drug raid at this Aurora (ph) house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Men coming in and out of the house and drugs being done upstairs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Known for his crusade against drug use, manipulate young men, trading sex for meth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a very powerful sheriff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six men who claim to have had sexual encounters and done drugs with Sullivan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nelson used the badge to curry favor in meth communities.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pleaded guilty to charges of trading meth for sex.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Frequented this gay men`s bathhouse in search of victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything that he`s done for the community is just to hide to the troopers who he is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The roommate claims that the old man told him, quote, "If you want the police, I am the police."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The former sheriff in an orange uniform, the same kind he used to hand out to so many accused criminals.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight a former sheriff of the year caught leading a seedy and lawless double life, giving meth to young, drug-addicted men in exchange for sex. This married father and grandfather, who crusaded against drug use, was busted in an undercover sting operation.

Former sheriff Patrick Sullivan -- there he is in the orange -- now facing the most humiliating irony, sitting in a jail tonight that bears his name.

Now, here he is last fall with an informant in a suburban Denver home. Sullivan brought a bag of methamphetamine and drug paraphernalia for the informant in exchange for sex with a man...

But first things first: Sullivan sets up his portable DVD player so they can both enjoy some gay porn first.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this. This is what I think you`ll enjoy. It`s all real young guys.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sullivan pleaded guilty to drug and prostitution charges in exchange for a measly 38 days in jail, eight of which he`d already served. Unbelievable.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The former sheriff disgraced the badge, and he also used the badge to gain favor our the meth community. And he used that badge to have influence over a very, very vulnerable community. So I think it`s an appropriate and just sentence.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thirty-eight days in jail a just sentence? Can`t you get 38 days for driving with a suspended license? This guy was using and peddling meth in exchange for sex, and the special prosecutor you just heard from say it happened repeatedly.

And tonight we`re also asking, as a bunch of new reports come in, is this the tip of the iceberg, in a mushrooming scandal?

There are burning questions about whether the drowning death of a young man, Shaun Moss (ph) might in some way, shape or form be linked to this man. The two men met while Sullivan was still sheriff.

Our affiliate, KUSA, spoke to the young man`s boyfriend. And he told them the young man and Sullivan -- he made this claim -- did meth together soon before the young man`s death. So will police reopen the investigation into that young man`s death?

What`s your take on this scandal? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586- 7297.

Straight out now to Jon Lieberman, investigative reporter with Howard 100 News, Sirius XM. My gosh. Every page that I read, it got more and more shocking. What on earth is going on here?

JON LIEBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: This is a case about sex, drugs and power. And according to prosecutors, a man, this former sheriff, who would do anything for sex and drugs.

Let me paint this picture for you, Jane. When Mr. Sullivan was asked if he had ever had sex with anyone underage, he said he didn`t know. He said he couldn`t answer yes or no because all of his encounters with them, he was under the influence of meth.

Prosecutors paint a picture of this guy who even went so far as to tell detectives that he was on a task force going after people dealing meth, and in addition, that he even worked for the state health department helping people to get off of meth.

So that undercover video that you saw which led to these charges, is really just the tip of what prosecutors believe was actually going on here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The prosecutor, the special prosecutor said this scene that you`re seeing here happened, quote, "time and time again." And you see Sullivan giving gifts to the guy whose face is blurred, the undercover informant. Underwear before he jumps on the bed, gets comfortable and says basically, "Let`s rock some gay porn," and the transaction, according to authorities, is, "Hey, you have sex with me, I`ll give you some methamphetamine."

Now, this former Sheriff Sullivan allegedly groomed young, drug- addicted men under the guise that he was mentoring them. Check out this part of the surveillance video where the former sheriff presents the informant with a shirt and underwear.


PATRICK SULLIVAN, FORMER SHERIFF: See if these would fit you. That one doesn`t have any elastic.


SULLIVAN: May be too big for you, too.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you can see these men fell under his control. They`re hooked on drugs. They desperately want these drugs, and there`s this man who comes in the form of a mentor and who turns around and, according to the authorities, demands sex. Not once but repeatedly.

I want to go out to Jonathan Ellenoff (ph), the producer for "The Tom Martino Show," you did some undercover investigation that helped break this case wide open, I understand.

Tell us about the double life. Because what`s outstanding to me is that this former sheriff, always been honored as sheriff of the year, honored by presidents, spoke before subcommittees, is also married to a woman. He`s a father; he`s a grandfather. What about this double life?

JONATHAN ELLENOFF (PH), PRODUCER, "THE TOM MARTINO SHOW": You know, it`s interesting because I had first heard the story and I didn`t believe it. I brought it to my boss, Tom Martino. He didn`t believe it either. We both came to the conclusion that, you know, this might just be a made-up story.

And when we started looking into it because of his decorated career, and noticing the criminal element right away, we became shocked and somewhat concerned as to how long this was going on and to what extent this criminal life really developed for the former sheriff.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this man was leading a secret double life, and all the things that he professed to be about were a complete lie.

OK, Patrick Sullivan worked for nearly two decades as the sheriff, and he was a huge leader in the fight against crime and drugs, crusading against drugs in the community.

Again, married, children, grandchildren. On the flip side, he`s trading hardcore meth for sex with men.

When cops searched the house that the former sheriff shared with his wife, they found 49 porn DVDs, gay porn magazines, and an envelope with condoms.

So here`s what I want to know. And I want to go to Duncan Roy, producer, director and former cast member of VH-1`s "Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew." Could this be a question of cross addiction? Meth is one of the most addictive substances on earth and there`s also sexual addiction which you are talking about. You`re a recovering sex addict, the last time I checked.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: How do those two intertwine?

ROY: Well, you know, there`s a -- I think there`s a broader story here, as well, that methamphetamine has really been a big problem in the gay community, running right through the gay community, as well as sex addiction.

You know, it doesn`t surprise me that he`s using meth in order to persuade young boys to -- to have sex with him. Because you know what? These -- as the earlier speaker said, these guys are very vulnerable. They`re probably not even out, and they want drugs, and they want an introduction to the gay community. And I`m afraid this old man took advantage of these young boys.

And I see it all the time, I`m afraid, in various forms in the gay community. This is not unusual. It`s just obviously not sheriffs that usually do it.

And you know what? I agree with you: 38 days does not seem a lot of time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s shocking. We`re going to get into that in a second. But first I want to go out to the phone lines. Wendell, Alabama, your question or thought, Wendell?

CALLER: Hey, how you doing, Jane? My name is Wendell. Obviously this is (UNINTELLIGIBLE). When I was a little kid, the same thing happened to me. I became addicted to meth in the gay community. And I got HIV and it just sickened me because he took abandoned kids.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Howard Samuels, you`re a clinical psychologist and also an addiction specialist. How is it possible that nobody knew about this? I mean, where did he get his meth? Well, it turns out we`re going to talk about his supplier, who ends up getting three years, not 30 days.

But you would think that in this community, that somebody had to have known what was going on.

HOWARD SAMUELS, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Well, you know what, Jane? This doesn`t shock me. And I have to agree with Duncan, you know, in what he said, is that, you know, addictions cross all lines, and in the gay community, meth is a huge problem. And it is one of the most popular drugs in the gay community. And the sex addiction and the drug addiction really go hand in hand.

And you know, I`ve treated priests. I`ve treated policemen. I`ve treated housewives. I mean, it is very common, as you know, Jane, for us addicts to lead double lives, and we`re very good at it. And this is just horrific as far as a sheriff doing this that`s supposed to be trustworthy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Did his wife know he had 49 gay porn DVDs in his house? We`re taking your calls on this. We`re just getting started. The shockers, well, they`re still coming in. 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Call me.

And later on, at the end of our broadcast, we`re going to talk new insight into the Trayvon Martin shooting. Brand-new information about whether George Zimmerman used a racial slur or not during his 911 call.

But first, we`re devoting most of the hour to this former sheriff`s sex for meth undercover operation. It`s a shocker. You won`t believe half of the stuff we`re going to tell you, but cops say it`s true.


SULLIVAN: That one doesn`t have any elastic.


SULLIVAN: I might need to fix that.

May be too big for you, too.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think everything that he`s done for the community is just to hide who he really is. And to me, the person that I knew, he was a very powerful sheriff.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A whistle blower in this case lived at the house where Sullivan was busted. Dylan Drilly (ph) says that this former Sheriff Sullivan dragged his two roommates back into the drug scene. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Men coming in and out of the house, drugs being smoked upstairs. After I found this out, I was trying to get these boys out. And the more effort I put into it, the more Pat got right up in my case, started waving his cane around. And I was just afraid that he was going to make a phone call and I would -- I`d be the one in trouble.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, that young man is implying that, if he tried to stop Sullivan, then that Sullivan might use his powers and his connections against him.

This is such a shocking story. Want to go out to the phone lines. Carla in Colorado, I understand that you know the sheriff or know of him. You`re in Colorado, the state where this is all going down. What say you, Carla?

CALLER: Jane, am I on?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you are.

CALLER: I can`t hear you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re on, say what you have to say, my dear.

CALLER: Sheriff Sullivan is a very, very nice man. I have known him for 20 years. I arranged spaghetti dinners for him when he wanted to become sheriff. I have gone to the former governor`s when he became a governor. And he`s a very, very nice man, and I hope with good behavior and he will be out in 18 days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, Sharon Liko, you`re a criminal defense attorney based out of Denver. This is why he was elected repeatedly. He served as a sheriff 19 years. It`s fascinating to me.

Here`s what I don`t understand, Sharon. According to local CBS 4, he bailed out numerous suspects, allegedly, in drug cases. Why didn`t that raise a red flag? Ooh, the former sheriff bailing out these guys who have been involved in drugs?

SHARON LIKO, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t have words to express, nor do I think there are sufficient words in the English language to express the outrage, the shock, the contempt for what has gone down in my state. The people of Colorado have shame to bear. This is horrible that this could happen. We have taken a giant leap back in time.

The sheriff, yes, he was an elected official. He served with honors and distinction. He was sheriff of the year. He risked his life to save a couple of his deputies. He championed the campaign to keep drugs away from youth. And then this happens.

This wasn`t the first time he was doing this. This has gone on for years. How many years? Nobody really knows. But to give him a 30-day sentence, to have him plea out to a misdemeanor, the least serious felony available, this is a joke.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. A joke. And Judge Karen Mills Francis, why? When the guy who allegedly supplied him with meth got three years?

KAREN MILLS FRANCIS, JUDGE: This is wrong on so many levels, Jane. This man was elected to protect and serve.

The problem I have with this is that this wasn`t a big town. This wasn`t Denver. This is some tiny little town, and this man was doing this over and over and over again? I have to believe that somebody knew what was going on there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you something. We`re just getting started with the shockers. I`ve got tons of them, and we`re going to tell you more about them on the other side. You will not believe some of this stuff. Next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the sex for meth sheriff in a moment. But first, here`s your "Viral Video of the Day."






UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So have you had any of it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It`s a social issue. Why smoke by yourself?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s the caught-on-tape undercover sting operation that resulted in the arrest of a former sheriff of the year. Somebody lauded as a tough crime fighter, but no, he was offering sex to drug- addicted gay men, offering meth to them in return for sex. OK. That was the deal.

Now, most meth addicts can barely function. I find it interesting. How did this guy keep these lies and this double life going for so long? That`s what`s fascinating to me.

Before Sullivan was caught in his double life, he was recognized as a major hero in the community. Check this out. This is way back in 1989. He dramatically rescued a deputy when a 20-year-old gunman went on a shooting rampage. Check this out.



SULLIVAN: We need to address these weapons that were primarily designed and manufactured as military weapons to kill and maim people.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was the man who`s now at the center of this scandal, back when he was a sheriff. And again, this is the undercover videotape of -- and this is the -- in There he is.

I fact, they used to call this guy Hollywood Pat because he was very dramatic. And here he is driving this vehicle to pick up some wounded people and then rush them to safety. Very flamboyant, very dramatic. And to all accounts, a huge hero.

How does somebody go from that, OK, Howard Samuels, clinical psychologist to a guy that the special prosecutor said had suspicious images on his computers of individuals that couldn`t be classified as minors, but that were very, very suspicious. And giving meth to gay, drug addicted men after gaining their confidence by telling them he was a former sheriff?

SAMUELS: Well, you know what, Jane? This is a classic case of addiction within an individual. Now, in this case, I really believe this man has a sexual addiction. And he tried to hide it and hide it. But it grew and it grew and it grew. And he rationalized.

Addicts out there rationalize from the small drugs to the big drugs and it takes years. Now sexual addiction is the same type of addiction, except it`s sex. It starts off with maybe pornography and then it moves on to other areas. And then you start to compromise yourself, and before you know it, it has become a monster within you.

And this sheriff so compromised his ethics and values and the trust that the people of Colorado put into him. That`s what makes it tragic. That`s what makes it so shameless. And if he gets 38 days...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Ellenoff (ph). It`s an outrage, it`s an outrage, especially, Jonathan Ellenoff (ph), where people are asking could this be the tip of the iceberg?

We`ve got two other disturbing angles to tell you about, which we`ll tell you about in a second. Why would they give him something so lenient when there`s a task force, 22 individuals that are investigating whether this is the tip of the iceberg?

ELLENOFF (ph): Truth is, is that the talk around this town is saying the same things. People want to know why the sentence is the way it is. A lot of people feel the same way, that it`s lenient. We don`t know. We don`t know those answers, but we don`t know if he talked and rolled on somebody or something happened. But...



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything but the average drug suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The former sheriff disgraced the badge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Plus did a basic drug raid at this (inaudible) house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Men were coming in and out of the house and going straight upstairs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Known for his crusade against drug use --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Manipulate young men into trading sex for meth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a very powerful sheriff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The six men who claim to have had sexual encounters and done drugs with Sullivan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He also used the badge to curry favor with the meth community.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pleaded guilty to charges of trading meth for sex.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Frequented this gay men`s bathhouse in search of victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything that he`s done for the community just died in the true person he is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The roommate claims that the old man told him, quote, "If you want the police, I am the police."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The former sheriff in an orange uniform, the same kind he used to hand out to so many accused criminals.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: And tonight that former sheriff of the year, Pat Sullivan is sitting in a jail that bears his name.

This is a shocker -- we`re going to start by showing you the undercover footage that resulted in his arrest. And essentially this was a sting operation, you see the man with the gray hair that doesn`t have his face blurred, that`s the former sheriff, and the other guy looking at the T-shirt that is a gift from the former sheriff is an undercover informant.

And this is a scandal that blew wide open. Essentially, the cops are saying here is that the former sheriff is bringing meth to the scene and trading the methamphetamine for sex with this man. And they say it happened time and time and time again.

Now, there are other disturbing allegations that are coming in. Our Denver affiliate, KUSA, is reporting a claim -- this is just a claim -- of child molestation against Sullivan. A 29-year-old man told KUSA, his claim that Sullivan touched him inappropriately when he was 9 years old.

The man claims he first met Sullivan at a skating rink in 1991. And that Sullivan approached him again when he was 14. KUSA says the man has reported the claims to the police and there is now there is an investigation. We have to tell you, we cannot independently confirm any of these. We have reached to the police, we have not heard back. We also reached out to both attorneys for Pat Sullivan, we have not heard back. They or Pat Sullivan if he gets -- when we gets out -- or his attorneys are invited on this show any time at all.

Ok, but I got to go to Sharon Liko, criminal defense attorney out of Denver. What about the statute of limitations in that state?

SHARON LIKO, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It depends on what he`s charged with. Some crimes have a statute of limitations that doesn`t expire. And you see a lot of people come forth when they have been abused as children 20 years later and the person can still be charged.

There`s something fundamentally really wrong with how this case was handled. I mean you look at the decisions that were made, even when they decided to prosecute him. They hired an assistant attorney general to prosecute. Why didn`t they bring in somebody with 30 years of criminal prosecutorial experience? They don`t.

The judge that hears the case is the chief judge of Arapaho and he sits on the bench for juvenile issues and adoption issues. He`s not in there listening to criminal issues and criminal cases. The assistant attorney general feels good about what happens and feels that the 30-day sentence was just.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a joke.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go do Jon Leiberman, investigative reporter -- weigh in.

JON LEIBERMAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: First of all, this case is far from over. This particular part of it is over, but you`re going to see more and more investigations.

And let me just say something. Yes, the 38 days feels outrageous. But keep this in mind -- police believe this guy was a master manipulator. That he scared the informants. So when police get and cultivate undercover informants, sometimes you only have one shot at that video that you`re looking at right there -- you only have one shot to get the cameras up. They didn`t know what they were going to get there, so they took their shot, they got what they got. And we`d be having another conversation if they charged him -- if they went to trial and then they couldn`t prove it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jonathan Elinoff, you did some undercover investigating in this case. You`re a producer with the "Tom Martino Show". How did this case break open?

JONATHAN ELINOFF, PRODUCER, "TOM MARTINO SHOW": Originally we got a call through the trouble-shooter network, "The Tom Martino Show" on talk radio KHOW which is where the show is. I`m an investigator with it and at first we thought the call was you know, crazy. We weren`t really sure if these allegations were true because of the decorated career the sheriff had.

Following up on the story, you know, one person led to another, led to another and I started seeing what appeared to be a thread of truth as Tom Martino put it and kind of coached me through this process. One person`s story --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But where did all these guys come from?


ELINOFF: -- matched another.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where did all these guys -- where did all these men come from that were undercover informants? Tell us about that.

ELINOFF: Well, it`s interesting you say that. You know for two weeks I couldn`t find some of these guys. They were homeless. They were - - some of them were diabetics. They were addicted to serious drugs. And in that demographic, in that scene that they were in, usually they`re being kept at houses or, you know, being found dead or something like that unfortunately, or in homeless shelters.

So it`s very hard to track down people like that. I spent two weeks tailing and trailing and doing a lot of recon off from a distance. And I was able to find these people, take their statements on video and in the middle of November -- November 17 if I recall -- I went to the FBI Safe Streets Task Force. I handed them a giant stack of information, names and enough evidence and information that would convince they have something to do about this.

And two weeks later, the sting occurred and I found out that pretty much everyone involved in that were the people I provided to the FBI Safe Streets Task Force.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jonathan, excellent work. This is excellent undercover investigating. And thank God for you and other journalists who were looking into this.

Sullivan, by the way, has also been tied to another disturbing story. Now, this is according to a local news station KUSA. Sullivan helped an adult film star Sean Moss (ph) get a job as a school security officer about a year ago -- a little over a year ago. He was found dead in a river with methamphetamine and a date rape drug in his system, according to published reports. Cops say it appeared to be a drowning.

Now KUSA is reporting the investigation is still open. The porn stars boyfriends claims Sullivan had a certain reputations and that this boyfriend claims he witnessed the dead man and Sullivan doing methamphetamine together. So listen to that claim.


ANDREW PINO SEAN MOSS` BOYFRIEND: He would probably be characterized as a dirty old man. I saw him do illegal things with my boyfriend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What sort of illegal things.

PINO: This is difficult. I`ve seen him give him drugs. I`ve seen him using methamphetamines.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again this from KUSA, we cannot independently confirm any of these accusations. And again, we invite anyone who is an attorney or representative for Pat Sullivan to be on our broadcast.

We`ve also reached out to police.

But Jonathan Elinoff, I got to go to back to you. What do you know about that case?

ELINOFF: That sounded like the boyfriend of Sean Moss. And if I recall the night that Sean Moss went missing, they found him the next morning, allegations came out that he had been at a bath house.

Now it was said earlier and I want to make a point here. Sullivan is not the only person of influence who was doing this. There are social clubs, motels where men frequent and they pay for sex and money for drugs and things like that. They sometimes move these people from location to location. Even people fly in to Denver from around the U.S. And these kinds of things were uncovered during the investigation and handed to authorities.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman.

ELINOFF: So it is larger actually than Sullivan.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is this going to go.

LEIBERMAN: The police are still actively investigating all of this. They wanted -- apparently they wanted to get the sheriff behind bars, they have him now behind bars and this investigation is going to continue to grow.

I mean this is a guy, when questioned by police, if he ever had sex with any minors, he said I can`t say yes and I can`t say no, because when I came in contact with all these people, I was under the influence of meth.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Sharon Liko, criminal defense attorney, you`re in the Denver area. Are you satisfied with how this has unfolded? Are you wondering why this didn`t come on the radar of law enforcement before Jonathan did all this undercover work?

LIKO: Absolutely. It`s been something that`s been brewing for a long time. This didn`t just happen. His criminal activity probably began when he was sheriff. Because one of his original --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen we don`t want to jump -- let me just jump in -- we don`t want to jump to any conclusions. I have no knowledge of that, I have never met this man. Let`s try to stick with the facts. But I`m wondering --

LIKO: Well, that`s what I heard though.


LIKO: That`s what I heard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But that`s heard -- heard. That could be gossip and rumor and innuendo. We don`t -- I don`t think we want to go there. We have enough --

LIKO: Ok. I haven`t independently verified it, because I`m not out there on the street, but from what I have read that one of the original suppliers was a confidential informant that the sheriff knew while he was in office. And then --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, I have to say that I have no independent confirmation. This is a live show. I don`t know what people are going to say.

And I do invite the attorneys for Pat Sullivan on. We have been trying to reach them. We want to get their side of the story. We want to be fair here. This is an important story that has to be covered because this man was in a position of trust. That`s why it`s so shocking and horrifying. But we also want to be fair. He deserves the presumption of innocence.

All right. Stay right there, we`ve got more. Believe it or not, we`re not finished with this and we`re taking your calls. Stay right there.



MICHAEL DOUGHERTY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: The former sheriff disgraced the badge. And he also used the badge to curry favor with the meth community. And he used that badge to have influence over a very, very vulnerable community. So I think it`s an appropriate and just sentence.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sullivan isn`t the first man of power to lead a secret life. You remember Pastor Ted Haggard. I think he`s been on reality shows of late. He was accused of having gay relationships -- secret, secret gay relationships -- while he was married, while he was preaching against homosexuality. And he was also accused of using meth. Listen


TED HAGGARD, PASTOR: I made the worst mistake of my life. I embarrassed my wife and violated her and my children and everybody who trusted me and myself. I did some things that were contrary to the things that I believe and I made a mess of my life.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Duncan Roy, producer, director, former cast member of VH-1`s "Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew", explain this phenomenon if you can. I think the shrinks call it reaction formation.

DUNCAN ROY, PRODUCER AND DIRECTOR: I think this is the saddest part of the story. This is the part where you`re looking at a man who is deeply in the closet. You know, he`s in his 70s and when he was growing up as a gay man, he probably didn`t have the choices that we have now.

I think for me that`s, yes, that`s the saddest part because, you know, he got married and had kids and did the whole thing and led this double life. And I was wondering as I was listening to it, you speak earlier whether you could be a gay hero in Colorado, whether you could have gone into the police force when he went into the police force and achieved what he achieved as a gay man, rather than a closeted gay man.

And in the closet, I`m sad to say, there are very dark -- it`s a very dark place. And I`m afraid you open yourself up to dark forces when you live there. And you know what; he`s probably lived there for a very long time, living on the edge of society.

And so my heart kind of goes out to him on one level and on another level, he`s taken advantage of his situation as the sheriff, and you know, same as Haggard. And men like Haggard and this guy, they take advantage of their situation, they end up with boys who are looking for father figures maybe or grandfather figures. But the point is that they end up just colluding with them and end up as drug addicts and I`m afraid sex addicts. And you know --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Howard Samuels, you`re a clinical psychologist as well as an addiction specialist. In 12-Step, you know I`m in recovery from alcoholism. They say you`re only as sick as your secrets. When you`re holding a very, very, very heavy-duty secret, it`s bound to become toxic?

HOWARD SAMUELS, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: You`re right, Jane, and not only does it become toxic, but it becomes bigger. And that`s exactly what has happened in this case. I`m sure he`s been doing this for years. And it`s gotten bigger and bigger and darker and darker where it had to end up where it ended up. And the tragedy here is that people have shame out there about their sexuality, and we`re trying to break that, you know, feeling in today`s society. There should be no shame about being gay, straight, whatever your sexual identification is. And if you don`t come to the truth of who you are as a person, unfortunately, this is how tragic it becomes because of the secret of shame.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go out to the phone lines. Quentron, North Carolina, your question or thought, Quentron, go ahead.

QUENTRON, NORTH CAROLINA (via telephone): Hi, Jane.


QUENTRON: What I think about this whole thing is the ex-sheriff -- he`s just a big disgrace. I don`t understand, why would you downgrade yourself to something like that? You`re a sheriff, you`re supposed to be upholding the law. You`re not supposed to do things like that. And those 38 days that they gave him, I don`t think that`s enough time for him. I think he needs to have way more time than that, way more, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. I agree with you. Again, the person who supplied him allegedly with the meth that he traded for sex in this undercover sting got three years. Why did he get 38 days?

Now listen, I`ve got the probable cause statement from the drug task force, check this out, it reads, and I`m quoting here, "Confidential informant advised they had engaged in sexual activity with Sullivan in the past. Sullivan had provided them with methamphetamine during past encounters and/or cash in payment for the sexual act."

So this is the fact, Jon Leiberman, according to the cops.

LEIBERMAN: It is, but here`s the other side of it too. He had no criminal record. There was only a small amount of meth in that undercover case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`re going to have to leave it right there. We`re going to stay on top of this one.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: New developments in the Trayvon Martin case in just a moment. But, first there`s been a lot of big news so check out this.







UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

CROWD: Justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

CROWD: Justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who screamed on the 911 phone call the night that Trayvon Martin died?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police, I just heard a shot right behind my house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn`t pull out a gun and shoot him. George showed tremendous restraint.

CROWD: What do we do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trayvon has touched everybody`s life. Touched everybody`s life; so you know, they`re just trying to smear his image.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, the mystery of the 911 call the night Trayvon Martin was shot, did George Zimmerman use a racial slur when he called 911 the night Trayvon Martin was shot. Many were convinced Zimmerman uttered a racial slur during his 911 call.

A top audio forensic expert worked with the audio and re-edited it five times so you can really hear Zimmerman`s words. We also bleeped out the profanity. Listen for yourself.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So that expert`s conclusion, he said "punks", not a racial slur. Why we couldn`t understand Zimmerman`s words before, the audio expert he said it was because of cell phone interference.

Egypt Sherrod, national TV host and V103 Atlanta radio, do you buy this new expert`s explanation of punk?

EGYPT SHERROD, NATIONAL TV HOST: You know, Jane, I have to tell you, I`m not convinced one way or the other. But think we`re arguing the wrong thing. If we sit here and try to decipher what was said on that phone call, we`re going to hear the same thing over and over again.

What we all know is that passion runs high for this case. We all want the same thing, which is justice. And one way or the other and we should want prevention in one way or the other. And we should want prevention.

So to me, what we should be focusing on is how to prevent something like this from ever, ever happening again. You know what? Everyone in every state across the country right now needs to do is register to vote. Because issues like this are where it really, truly counts.

The fact that this law was even on the books and many people in Sanford didn`t even know the "Stand Your Ground" law existed, and those who did know didn`t fully understand it in it`s totality tells us that something is wrong.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: George Zimmerman`s new attorney appearing "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT" had harsh words for the protesters who came to Sanford to show their support for Trayvon Martin and his family. Listen to this.


HAL UHRIG, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S ATTORNEY: The morning of February 26th, we had a peaceful community where blacks and whites went to church together, stood in line at the grocery together and didn`t think that we had a problem. After some folks came to town and had their little rallies and made irresponsible speeches about murder and racial profiling --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Natalie Jackson, the attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family what is your reaction to those comments?

NATALIE JACKSON, ATTORNEY FOR TRAYVON MARTIN`S FAMILY: My reaction is these blanket statements are harmful. They are harmful to everyone and most importantly they are harmful to their client, George Zimmerman. We believe that George Zimmerman should be arrested and given a fair trial. That is what this family has always said.

When you bring in the race issue, such as his family and his friends have brought in over and time and time again, it distracts from the real issue. The real issue is that Trayvon Martin was shot in the chest by a man carrying a 0.9 millimeter gun. Now, whether or not this man is able to claim self-defense is up to a jury.

I don`t know why a lawyer would continue to say and continue to focus on the issues that are divisive, that are not even admissible in a courtroom.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I`ll say this. Part of the great joy of being American is that we have a right to gather and protest peacefully. These protests have been peaceful.

More on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re on pins and needles. Will there be charges against George Zimmerman. Predictions, starting with Egypt.

SHERROD: I have to tell you, Jane, I do think that ultimately he is going to face charges. Now whether or not he does any time, that all has to deal with whether or not we decide to look at the absurdity of the "Stand Your Ground" law. There are laws that exist all across this country that aren`t necessarily upheld.

On the books, there are laws that people go to jail in some states for jaywalking. In other states, you can go to jail for beating your wife on Wednesday. Do we have to really look at the absurdity of this one? It`s left up to perception. And perception is not always reality.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ten seconds, Natalie Jackson, attorney for Trayvon Martin family.

JACKSON: Justice dictates this case goes to trial. Yes. I believe it should. And it will.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then we have to ask, well if there are charges, what are those charges going to be? We`re all over this case.

Thank you, ladies, both for joining us.

Nancy Grace is next.