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PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
The Big Story: Trayvon Martin; Interview with Arsenio Hall
Aired April 5, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight, Trayvon Martin, is an arrest imminent? I'll ask some legal experts what the next step is and what it will take to bring justice in this electrifying case.
Plus, we got Arsenio Hall's take on the shooting and what it says about America's justice system and race today.
Also, the bodyguard -- the Secret Service agent who risked his own life to protect Jackie Kennedy in Dallas.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something, I repeat, has happened in the motorcade route.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
MORGAN: And he joins me with new details on that infamous day.
Then, beauty and grace. My one-on-one interview with Katherine Jenkins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHERINE JENKINS, SINGER: I didn't know I could (INAUDIBLE). I don't know what's happening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: The opera sensation turning heads and stealing the show on "Dancing with the Stars."
And, "Only in America" -- why be a homeowner when you can buy a whole town?
This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
MORGAN: Good evening.
Tonight's big story: Trayvon Martin. Was the shooting self- defense or not?
Here's what George Zimmerman's attorney, Hal Uhrig, told me last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAL UHRIG, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S ATTORNEY: The reason that Trayvon Martin is dead is not because he was black or because he wore a hoodie or because he was walking in the rain. It's because that 6'3" young man made a terrible decision and a bad judgment, and he decided to smack somebody in the face and break their nose, jump on them and smack their head into the ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: That's one side of the story. But does anyone believe that? The latest developments ahead.
Also, the most trusted man in Jackie Kennedy's life. It wasn't her husband. It was a Secret Service agent who protected her when the president was shot. His extraordinary firsthand account of that dark day coming up.
But, first, back to big story: Trayvon Martin.
With me now is defense attorney Mark Geragos, victims rights attorney Gloria Allred and "New York Times" columnist Charles Blow. Also ahead is Arsenio Hall. We're getting his thoughts in a moment.
But, first, I want to hear from our legal minds.
This has -- let's start with you, Mark, as you're with me here -- this has become an incredibly complex legal battle now. You know, the attorneys I had on last night of George Zimmerman got very fired up, very emotive.
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I watched that. That was almost a train wreck last night.
MORGAN: What do you make -- I mean, I was surprised at the amount of emotion they were showing.
GERAGOS: I understand from their standpoint, they are in the midst of a storm. They've got what they believe the media convicting their client before there's been a trial or he's been filed. In fact, one of the things that struck me was the one lawyer who kept talking, I guess his original lawyer, kept talking as if he was going to get filed on. He was going to be charged, which I think you would hope as a defense lawyer that that's premature.
But at the same time, one of the reasons this things is so fascinating is understand, anybody who's been connected to the criminal justice system knows that if you're not a police officer and you shoot and kill somebody, they arrest first and ask questions later.
That has not happened here. I mean, there was an arrest, but for some reason, he was let go. And now, they are investigating. That isn't a bad thing to investigate. MORGAN: Clear up one thing for me very quickly, because last night, there seemed to be some doubt about the legality of somebody operating as a neighborhood watch official using a firearm, because this is an unwritten code perhaps. In fact, it's a written code.
GERAGOS: It might be a preset of the neighborhood watch program, but if you believe and if it's the truth that he's got a concealed weapons permit, he can carry that weapon.
MORGAN: Regardless of his capacity?
GERAGOS: Regardless of whatever he's going to do. There isn't something -- they don't issue a concealed weapon's permit that says this is valid except when you're on neighborhood watch. It's no different than if a police officer was off duty and had one.
MORGAN: Gloria, let me come to you. You have been involved in many high profile cases. This has become very high profile. What is your overview as we sit here tonight of this case?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS' RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, I think it's very fair for the family of Trayvon Martin to be asking the question why George Zimmerman wasn't arrested. I think the answer, in part, is that the lead investigator reportedly did refer this case for prosecution, did think an arrest should be made. On the other hand, it appears to have been rejected by the state attorney.
Now, what there is a special prosecutor appointed by the governor. And in a sense, a review is being made of that decision. And, of course, it appears reportedly and, of course, we don't see the evidence in the court of law because there's no court of law involved yet. It appears that there may have not been a thorough investigation.
So, hopefully, the special prosecutor is also going to be able to review evidence that had not been previously reviewed. So, that's what I think.
MORGAN: Gloria, tell me this.
ALLRED: I think it's a fair question the family is asking.
MORGAN: Tell me this, why is he seen in handcuffs if he hasn't been arrested?
ALLRED: Well, we're not clear on whether he's been arrested or not. He obviously was in custody of the police. And we don't know what communication, when it took place between the police and the state's attorney. We don't know that.
MORGAN: Let me bring --
GERAGOS: Gloria raises a great point because one of the things is, and you understand this, this happens all the time, where the police may consult with a prosecutor. Prosecutor says, no, we don't have enough evidence. Go back and investigate.
If that's what happened, OK, I have seen that. But if I understand correctly, the one prosecutor who is supposedly the one who is consulting is now saying, hey, I wasn't consulted. This is wrong.
So, that's what makes this even another complex level because what was going on, why was he -- he was in custody. He was under arrest by anyone's definition, and he walked out of the station.
MORGAN: Charles Blow, let me you bring in here. You know Trayvon Martin's family. You met with them. Clearly, emotions running very high on both sides here.
It seems there are two distinct things going on here. One is the issue of the "Stand Your Ground" law, which is particularly prevalent and wide ranging in Florida. And the second issue is whether this was a racially-motivated incident in the sense that George Zimmerman was racially profiling Trayvon Martin and had targeted because he was a young black man.
Take both of those two issues for me. And give me your view of both, again, as we sit here with everything we now know.
CHARLES BLOW, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, let's start with the first part, which is, why did Trayvon Martin provoke some sort of threat response in George Zimmerman? That's something that happened in George Zimmerman's head. And we may not know the answer to that completely.
What we have to do because we don't know what's in George Zimmerman's head, he has not been on the witness stand, you have to put together kind of a psychological profile. What we're doing at this point is we only have the data to do that from what we have learned in the media. We don't have the full scope of the investigation.
However, we do know from George Zimmerman's own 911 call that he did think he was suspicious for whatever reason that was. He did know that he was black. He did know that he was young. George Zimmerman says that on the 911 call that he is probably his late -- that Trayvon is probably in his late teens. He does say that these, you know, these it blank always get away.
We do know that he identifies Trayvon Martin as a suspicious character even though Trayvon Martin is not committing any crime at that point. Now --
MORGAN: Charles, let me just jump in here because you alluded to the tape there. And the tape you're alluding to, which appeared at first hearing, certainly when I first heard it and first heard the original enhancement, it appeared to show George Zimmerman using a racial term.
It's now been enhanced several times since, and a very different picture is e emerging, which could prove actually quite crucial to this issue of whether there was racial intent. Let's listen to this. (AUDIO CLIP PLAYS)
MORGAN: Very quick, but -- play it again. You have to hear it a few times. Let's play this again.
(AUDIO CLIP PLAYS)
MORGAN: Now, earlier on CNN, this was played repeatedly. Enough times, and, you know, again, this is changing every day. Yesterday, it appeared to be f-ing cold. Today, it seems to be more likely and this is the view being put forward by Zimmerman's attorneys that actually the wording was "F-ing punks."
Now, whether it's F-ing cold or F-ing punks, what it isn't is a racist comment. How significant will that be to this debate, Charles, if that is true?
BLOW: Right. That's the second identifier, if, in fact, it is a racial slur, which I don't have an opinion. It's up to the experts, and you have to assume that both sides will have their own experts and the jury will be asked to figure out which one they believe.
But if it is a racial slur, then it kind of trips another wire and puts it into the hate crime category. And that is what George Zimmerman's lawyers are definitely trying to do avoid if a charge is ever brought in this case.
MORGAN: I mean, you know, there's very little evidence if you actually study it. "The New York Times" did a three and a half page special on Zimmerman's background. Very little evidence to suggest that he is racist. There just isn't any.
Now, it doesn't mean on this occasion he wasn't engaged in some sort of racial profiling. But certainly, the allegation that he's racist and acting from a racially-motivated intent with Trayvon Martin at the moment, I think, is unproven.
BLOW: Well, it's not proven, however, that -- setting it up that way, Piers, is a logical fallacy. You do not have to be a raging, you know, white sheet-wearing racist your entire life to act in a moment on a racial prejudice.
And so I think we have to always separate those two things out. I can be involved with all sorts of people my entire life, treat them very nicely, and at the same time, at a point where I find myself feeling threatened, I can act on racial prejudice. Those things are not usually exclusive. People have to really stop setting those things up to be opposites.
ALLRED: The other thing is why --
MORGAN: A very good point.
Gloria, Gloria, let me ask you this. I want to ask you specifically about "Stand Your Ground", which is the other part of this, because what the Zimmerman attorneys are clearly saying, what the brother told me when I interviewed him -- very clearly, the sequence of events they are painting is entirely designed, some would argue, critics would say cynically so, to defend themselves under "Stand Your Ground" -- in the sense that, yes, the tape appears to suggest that George Zimmerman was told by the 911 operator he spoke to not to pursue Trayvon Martin, but he then did. Something happened. An altercation occurs.
But actually that happens after Zimmerman is jumped on by Trayvon Martin as he returns to his vehicle. And then is in fear of his life and therefore, he can argue successfully if these are the facts, this can be what it is on "Stand Your Ground".
What do you think of the "Stand Your Ground" law in relation to this case?
ALLRED: Well, there in lies the rub as Shakespeare might have said, because after all, we don't know what the exact facts are. And, of course, "Stand Your Ground" never means that you can be the aggressor in a way and if you have no reason to think that you're being threatened, that your life is being in danger that your -- you can't just take your gun out and shoot if what you're doing is not reasonable. So, I think it's really unclear yet as to whether this applies.
My guess is that certain organizations that have interests in selling guns want to say that he had a right to stand his ground. But I think it's unclear right now as to whether or not it's going to apply at all.
MORGAN: Would you imagine, Gloria, very quickly, that there will be an arrest and indictment very soon in relation to George Zimmerman?
ALLRED: There may very well be. Of course, the case doesn't have to go before a grand jury. The special prosecutor could order the arrest and my sense is that within five or six days, we're going to know one way or another. The likelihood is --
MORGAN: Mark Geragos, would you agree with that?
GERAGOS: Yes, I don't think it's going to be any sooner than five days or so. But I also don't think this thing is going to turn on "Stand Your Ground". I mean, "Stand Your Ground" is nothing more than -- it's become nothing more than do you have to retreat.
And ultimately, what's being described by Zimmerman is, was he defending himself? And if he's defending himself, then he's got a right to. If he wasn't defending himself, if that set of facts doesn't get born out, then you can't go out and shoot somebody, especially if they're not using that kind of force.
MORGAN: Mark Geragos and Gloria Allred and Charles Blow -- thank you all very much.
Arsenio, you've been sitting there for the last 10 minutes listening to all this. When we come back after the break, I want to get your view on this.
MORGAN: Right now, my special guest Arsenio Hall.
And, Arsenio, you've been listening there very patiently to me talking to three guests that I had about this Trayvon Martin case. What do you make of it?
ARSENIO HALL, FORMER TALK SHOW HOST: My instinct as just a citizen, I'm not a professional like Geragos and Allred, I remember first hearing about it and hearing Zimmerman on the phone. And then I heard audio prompts from his car, which let me know the door is opening. I didn't get the feeling that he got back in the car. I got the feeling he got out of the car and pursued the gentleman.
On the other phone that Trayvon was using, he's talking to his girlfriend. He says to his girlfriend, "I'm not going to run," the ego a young man, I have a young man in my house, "I'm not going to run, but I'll walk fast." Which gives me his state of mind moments prior to being killed.
Now, I've heard, I wish Mr. Geragos was still here, but I heard that the distance from that point to his dad's home was less than the distance of a basketball gym. It was like 70 feet or something. He's almost home.
This kid, I think -- here's my fear, Piers. I think this kid what my son has been taught to do. Never go with a stranger. Always resist, because if they take you from this point to a secondary position, the statistics increase of you dying.
So I always tell my son, put up a struggle. This is not a policeman identifying himself with a badge and a shirt. This is, to my son -- Piers, my son would have been dead that night, he would have been dead that night because he wouldn't have stopped and apprehended.
MORGAN: Because he would have resisted.
HALL: He would have resisted. This is not -- I teach my son to have tremendous respect for law enforcement, but if a stranger in a civilian outfit walks up to my son, he's either going to run or fight. And I think this young man being 6'3", maybe he did hit Mr. Zimmerman. Maybe there was a struggle.
But you have no right, Piers, outside to stop me and make me do anything without identifying yourself as a police officer. That's how I feel about it.
I'm afraid -- because of this case, I'm afraid that that could have been my son.
MORGAN: Let me put a flip side to this --
HALL: By the way, I think you've been doing a good job with this. MORGAN: Well, I'm fascinated by this. I mean, some critics have said, listen, what do you know about it? You're British. You've only been here a few years. You're not black. You don't understand what this means to the black community.
HALL: Can I say just one thing about the black issue? There's a part of me that feels that the racial issue is becoming a distraction to what we need to be paying attention to. I don't even care what he uttered whether it was coon or punk. I don't care what he uttered.
I don't care really about some of the distracting -- it's like magic. You have what's called misdirection.
I care that this kid is dead and if Zimmerman had stayed in his car like he was prompted to do by 911, this child would not be dead.
MORGAN: What do you say, Arsenio, to people? You lived in Chicago for a couple years. And the death rate in Chicago of young black men is terrible. And a lot of it comes from other black young men killing each other.
What do you say? That people said, look, this is not the right issue to blow up like it has. There are more important issues for the young black man in America, like in Chicago right now, where dozens, hundreds are being killed on the streets every year. You've been vocal about this before.
What do you feel about that?
HALL: In this situation, I don't think it's a case of working on either/or in our society. I think it's about working on all of it.
There is something that needs to be done with black men and black on black crime. But just because that exists, this unto itself is something totally different. We have to deal with this.
I was watching "CSI" the other night. And it was a repeat. It just made me start thinking because Justin Bieber was shot. If I shot Justin Bieber, would I be out tonight?
MORGAN: No. This is my fundamental point. And I agree with you. You've got to -- you've got to try and just deal rationally and with the reality of what's happened here.
And the reality is I just find this "Stand Your Ground" thing as being used as some kind of weird excuse to not deal with what has happened. And Zimmerman may, in the end, go through a trial and be acquitted. It may be that what he did, the facts may later show, is justified under that law in Florida.
But to let him go home on the night when he's killed a young black teenager, Trayvon Martin, I find that incomprehensible.
HALL: And is it me? Is it the community? Or do you feel like this is taking too long? I don't know law in Florida. But I just don't think I'd still be out if I shot a young man who was trying to get 70 more feet to his father.
MORGAN: What do you say to your son? How old is your son?
HALL: He's 12.
MORGAN: Twelve years old. He's Arsenio Jr., right?
MORGAN: What do you say to him post-Trayvon Martin about walking on his own now?
HALL: I'm totally confused. Because I always said respect law enforcement, but don't respect strangers because they are tricky. They'll tell you I'm a friend of dad's. They'll tell you about candy. They'll tell you about puppies.
I don't know what to tell him now because a stranger who I would tell my son to resist and never go with, never cooperate with, never talk to even, you try to run as fast as you can or walk as fast as you can -- now, I don't know what to say because if you don't stop for people in certain areas of this country, you can be shot for not -- Piers, this man shouldn't have been able to tell this boy to stop. I want to talk to you, I want to question you, I want to apprehend you, put your hands behind your back. None of that.
MORGAN: None of his business.
HALL: There it is.
MORGAN: This is my sense. What's it got to do with him? Trayvon Martin wasn't breaking any laws.
HALL: And, by the way, if you're Barnaby Jones, and you're really great detective, the kid is with his dad 70 feet over there. You should know this face.
MORGAN: Let's move on to -- you're on "Celebrity Apprentice."
I, of course -- oh, I won, say something modest about this, Arsenio, I took the title home. But what a brutal experience that show is.
How did you find it?
HALL: Well, I think the scariest thing was when you get there and they take your phone and give you one. I'm like this is serious, you know? This is worse than being an O.J. juror, you know?
HALL: And there's some people around me that's just as dumb.
But the bottom line is, it was the real deal. And at first, it's kind of cute. The camera is in your face all the time.
And then in two weeks, you start to miss your family. You get sexually frustrated.
HALL: Because I don't know about you, I decided that I was going to approach it like Ali. I was going to approach it with no sex for the entire time with total focus on what was going on.
MORGAN: Well, there's no time for any sex.
HALL: Well, that too.
MORGAN: I mean, Donald Trump locks you up in this tower.
HALL: He gives you a little time for laundry and sex on Sunday if you want to do that, you know? If you want to do that, right?
HALL: But on Sunday, I just want to chill and watch the Jets.
MORGAN: You're raising money for the Magic Johnson Foundation on the show. And Magic just buying the Dodgers. What a moment for him, for America.
I mean, did you ever think the day would come that the Dodgers trailblazing -- obviously, Jackie Robison, the first black player was with the Dodgers. Did you ever imagine the day would come where you'd have Magic Johnson owner of the Dodgers and Barack Obama president of the United States in your lifetime?
HALL: Yes, it's amazing. And what's most amazing is that I know one of those guys. That's so frightening that my friend bought the Dodgers. And it's so weird to talk to him because Magic has such a wonderful life and he's such a progressive businessman. We can be at dinner, and I feel so bad with my contribution to the conversation because he'll just say I bought some TV stations and the Dodgers. And I will be like --
MORGAN: He's a fantastically nice guy. I thought what a charming man he is. But the amazing thing for you is you interviewed him 20 years ago --
HALL: Oh, yes.
MORGAN: -- when he made his big announcement about being HIV positive. And that was an incredibly emotional show because then, it seemed like a death sentence.
Let's watch a little bit of this. This is from that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAGIC JOHNSON, NBA SUPERSTAR: Call to let him know I was going to retire and that whole thing. You know, this young man, he cried like a baby. We both did.
HALL: You don't have to tell that part, man. You're telling the wrong part.
JOHNSON: They know the hard -- they know the hard side of you. I want them to know that he came to my side and it was really beautiful. And so, that's the type of person you see here every night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: OK. Two things. One, fantastic.
HALL: It looked like the big box of Crayolas fell on top of me.
MORGAN: I'm just going to say, what the hell is that jacket? Wow. I mean, great that Magic is still here, looking better as he was then, but that jacket.
HALL: I was trying to cheer people up.
MORGAN: Where is that jacket?
HALL: At Peter Max's house.
HALL: Covering his Fiat or something, I don't know.
MORGAN: Arsenio, I got to leave it there. You're a fantastic stand in host for me. I hope you come back and do it, because you were the most popular.
Everyone loved you. You had a great interview with Magic. You almost did me out of a job.
HALL: No, it was an honor, though. And thank you. It was so cool to sit on the front of a bus. This is a classy operation.
MORGAN: Well, listen, we loved having you. Come back here, Arsenio. Take care.
HALL: It's a pleasure.
MORGAN: Coming up, he's been haunted for 50 years by what happened in Dallas that fateful day. Jackie Kennedy's bodyguard, Clint Hill, joins me next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACQUELINE KENNEDY, FORMER U.S. FIRST LADY: I feel so strongly that the White House should have a finer collection of American pictures. So important the setting in which the president is presented to the world, to foreign visitors. The American people should be proud of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: A famed White House tour from Jacqueline Kennedy. And tonight, the most trusted person in her life is speaking out.
Clint Hill was the Secret Service agent assigned to the first lady. He was the one who jumped into the trunk of a limousine when the president was assassinated in Dallas. And Clint Hill is the author of the new book, "Mrs. Kennedy and Me: An Intimate Memoir." It's an honor, Clint Hill, to have you with me.
I just want to say very quickly that you and I met a few months ago in New York at a bar late at night. I was introduced to you by your publisher. I had no idea about your story. As it began to unfold, and I realized you were that Secret Service agent, the man who jumped on the back of the limousine after President Kennedy was shot, I realized I was talking to somebody who is a living piece of American history.
For that reason, it is a great honor to have you on the show tonight. Before we come to the fateful day that that happened, tell me, first of all, about the reality of Jacqui Kennedy, the woman behind the myth. Because you must have read and seen and heard so much nonsense about her over the last four or five decades.
What was she really like?
CLINT HILL, AUTHOR, "MRS. KENNEDY AND ME": That was one of the reasons I really thought this book should be written, is that most people really didn't know her, including members of the press who actually covered her during that period of time. But they told me, some of those who are retired and live in Washington that I know, that they didn't know her.
She was a wonderful lady. Very concerned about her children and her husband. Just had a great sense of humor, very athletic, loved to ride horses, was an accomplish equestrian, loved to water ski, loved to play tennis, loved to play golf. Just wanted to be active all the time.
At the same time, she was extremely intelligent and was very involved in trying to restore the White House to the way she thought it should be.
MORGAN: Nobody was closer to her than you were for the four years that you were on her specific detail. There's been, again, massive conjecture over the years about the marriage, the relationship she had with John F. Kennedy. Again, what was the reality?
How did they get on when the door was closed and they were left with just agents like you who saw everything? HILL: They were very close, very much in love. They respected each other very much. They became even closer after the death of Patrick in 1962. That brought them out even closer and they expressed it more openly, holding hands and things of that nature.
So, I mean, they were a loving couple. And she supported him in every way she could. And he supported her in every way he could. So they worked together very much as a team and were both very, very interested in how the children were raised, that they not be spoiled, that they grew up in a very normal childhood, as much as possible considering they were the president -- children of the president of the United States.
MORGAN: You were there with Jacqui Kennedy both when their son John Jr. was born and also, as you said, when Patrick so sadly died. You were there at these most incredibly intimate moments.
Did you ever feel -- I don't know. How did you feel? How do you feel when you're an agent that's so close to somebody who was, at the time, the most famous person married to the equally most famous person on the planet? And you're witnessing such private moments of great joy and great despair?
HILL: Well, I had a great deal of concern about their welfare and well being. I wanted to make sure that everything was done that possibly could be done to keep her safe and healthy, and the baby as well. In the first case, it was John Jr. That turned out very well.
And in the second case, it was Patrick. And unfortunately, he developed a lung problem and died three days later. So -- but we gave them as much privacy as possible. We wanted to create an environment around them that was safe for them to function as a family and to live their life as they wanted to live it, enjoying the things that they should enjoy, making it possible for them to do those things that they wanted to do without interference.
MORGAN: Let's take a short break. I want to come back and talk to you about that day in Dallas when the president was assassinated and the extraordinary role you played. You're seen on the iconic footage running towards the back of the limousine, jumping on it and leaping towards the First Lady. We'll come back after the break and discuss this.
HILL: Fine, thank you.
MORGAN: November 22nd, 1963, one of America's darkest days. Clint Hill was the Secret Service agent who ran to the back of the presidential limousine in Dallas. And I'm back with Clint Hill now. Clint, whenever you see those images, those images, what do you feel so long after that event?
HILL: Well, that never really leaves my consciousness. The sight of that is always in my mind. It's one of those things that you just -- will never be erased. It's a tragic moment in history. It's a tragic bond that Mrs. Kennedy and I shared, both being there and witnessing the event that occurred.
MORGAN: You were standing, I think, on the side of the car that was behind the presidential limousine. You were the First Lady's top Secret Service agent at the time. You're seen running towards the limousine and jumping on the back.
She's reaching out to you. You are trying to put yourself between her and any further bullets. Is that's what's going through your mind?
HILL: Yes. My objective was to get on top of the car and place myself over the top of the president and Mrs. Kennedy, to shield them from any further damage that might occur. I was a little bit slow. And I just didn't get there in time.
MORGAN: When did you realize that the president was probably dead?
HILL: After I got up on the car and Mrs. Kennedy came up on the trunk to retrieve some material that had gone off to the right rear from the president's wound in his head, I put her back in the seat. When I did that, his body fell into her lap face up.
I could see that his eyes were fixed, that there was a wound in the upper right rear of his head. I could see into his brain. Part of the brain was missing. There was brain matter and bone fragments and blood spattered all over the rear of the car. We were sure at that time that the shot had been a fatal shot.
MORGAN: I mean for any Secret Service agent to lose a president on their watch, I know how professional you all are, how seriously you take that responsibility. How has that responsibility borne down on you over the years since then?
HILL: Well, I've always felt a sense of guilt. I was the only agent present that had an opportunity to do anything because of the way everything happened. When the shots came in from the right rear, because I was on the left running board, and my vision took me across the back of the president's car, I saw the president grabbing his throat and lunge to his left. I knew something was wrong.
None of the other agents could do that because when they looked towards the shot, they looked away from the president's car. I was the only one who really had a chance. And that has ate at me throughout the years, that I should have gotten there a little faster perhaps, and I couldn't. Close but not close enough.
MORGAN: How much faster would you have needed to have got? Are we talking a second or two seconds? When you look back on that, is there anything you could have done?
HILL: Well, I went back to Dallas in 1990. And I walked the area. I went up in the Sixth Floor Depository to look from the sixth floor window where the shots came from. And after examining everything, the angles, the weather, everything that happened, I finally came to the conclusion that the advantages were all to the shooter that day. We had none.
And there really wasn't anything more that we could have done.
MORGAN: How many people were on the detail that day?
HILL: At that time, there were 34 assigned to the president. There were two of us assigned to Mrs. Kennedy and three assigned to the children. But at any one time, there were only usually five agents working the president at one time, plus the driver and the agent in the right front seat of the car.
MORGAN: Extraordinary. So on that day, there would have been less than 10 people?
MORGAN: Yes. There were less than 10 immediately around the president. There would have been another group of agents at the site we were going to. That was the Trademart in Dallas. There were some agents left at Love Field, who were to secure Love Field for our return. But actually with the president right around him, just a few of us.
MORGAN: What did the First Lady, Jacqui Kennedy, say to you as you were speeding to the hospital after this? Was she able to speak to you at all?
HILL: She was in shock. She really didn't talk to me. She made a couple comments. She said they shot his head off. She made a comment, what have they done? She didn't even realize I was even up on the top of the trunk with her. She was reaching for that material from his head and finally realized I was there I guess.
I put her in the backseat. But she doesn't recall that at all.
MORGAN: There have been a million conspiracy theories about what happened that day. You are probably better placed than most to make an accurate assessment of what really did happen. What do you feel happened? Do you believe Lee Harvey Oswald was just a man acting alone?
HILL: Yes. I have no question but what it was. It was Lee Harvey Oswald. There were three shots. They all came from the sixth floor of the school book depository. That was it.
MORGAN: When you think of your time with Jacqui Kennedy, a remarkable intimacy that you had with this incredible woman, an iconic figure in American history, what are the favorite memories you've had? We just discussed obviously the worst memory. What's your favorite of your time with her?
HILL: We had some wonderful times. Every summer, she would go on a cruise into the Mediterranean. Summer of '61, we were cruising in Greece. Summer of '62, we were in Italy on a big beautiful yacht called the Anyetta (ph). And summer of '63, we were out no the Christina (ph), in Greece.
After the assassination, summer of '64, we were on the Radiant (ph) in Italy. So we had some wonderful times cruising in the Mediterranean. And then we had spent time in Hyannisport here on the 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, Palm Beach at Christmas, New Years and Easter. And out at Middleburg, where she could ride her horses (INAUDIBLE) and really enjoy herself.
Even Camp David, where it was very private, she could do whatever she wanted. We had some wonderful times together.
MORGAN: Clint Hill, it's a remarkable book, "Mrs. Kennedy and Me." I recommend everyone goes and reads this, because it's one of the most riveting books I have read in a very long time. You received the Medal of Honor for your service to your country.
You were astonishingly brave that day, putting your life potentially on the line as well. And I thank you for your service and for joining me tonight. It's been a really remarkable interview. Thank you.
HILL: Thank you very much.
MORGAN: We'll be right back after this break.
MORGAN: You know Katherine Jenkins from her amazing turn on "Dancing With the Stars." She's topped the leader board. She has also a woman who can shatter a chandelier with her extraordinary voice. She's an operatic mezzo soprano and she joins me now.
Katherine, how are you?
KATHERINE JENKINS, "DANCING WITH THE STARS": I'm good. How are you?
MORGAN: I can't quite believe what's happening to you. You're like my little Welsh friend from Britain with a lovely voice. And now you're conquering America on the dance floor. I didn't know you could dance like this.
JENKINS: I didn't know I could dance like this either. I don't know what's happening.
MORGAN: Can you believe what's going on here?
JENKINS: No. I signed up because I just wanted to do something that was really fun and that thought I would enjoy it. And I'm a fan of the show anyway. I just didn't prepare myself for how much I would enjoy it. I'm having the best time. It's just -- it's brilliant.
MORGAN: Because American viewers, they will have been watching this wondering who on Earth you are, most of them. I knew you. In Britain, you sold -- sold six million albums worldwide. But you're known as this huge singing star. Is it weird to be over here now with this huge army of new fans who think that Katherine Jenkins, great dancer? JENKINS: It is funny because, you know, when I have been here before to make albums, it's been pretty much sort of under the radar. Now going out to dinner or, you know, being out --
MORGAN: Paparazzi hunting you down. I know how camera shy you are.
JENKINS: But it's nice that people want to come up and talk about dancing rather than anything else.
MORGAN: Are you having fun or is it incredibly hard work?
JENKINS: It's hard work, but it's fun. I have a really great partner in Mark Ballstry (ph). We are laughing (INAUDIBLE). We are friends. We hit it off straight away. I thought that was quite important, because I think sometimes you can tell.
MORGAN: Is he single?
JENKINS: No, he's got a girlfriend. Stop match making.
MORGAN: Because you are single at the moment.
JENKINS: I am single, yes.
MORGAN: It's impossible to believe that you are.
JENKINS: Well, I'm newly single, which is why I need to have something like the dancing to focus on. I'm not ready for that.
MORGAN: Yes, because it's been a bit of a tough time for you, hasn't it?
JENKINS: It has been. It only happened at the end of last year and we were engaged so it's --
MORGAN: I knew Geffy (ph). He's a lovely chap. I'm very sorry that it didn't work out for you. But there will be lots of men watching this who are not quite so sorry that you're back on the market.
The other thing that has happened to you, of course, with absolute chilling predictability, is the moment you reared your pretty little face in America, people have tried to shoot you down. And they have been bringing up all this stuff. And of course, the big thing was Katherine in drug shocker.
MORGAN: I was watching this going, wow, I remember that. I remember it was from our interview that we did.
JENKINS: I know.
MORGAN: So let's get this out of the way.
MORGAN: Because you're not some terrible drug fiend. This is all something that happened a long way back in your life. What do you want to say about it?
JENKINS: Just, like you said, this is something to me that feels like really old news. You know, I decided to come out and talk about with it, because it's something that I -- it was kind of just being young and stupid and in my teens and experimenting with things that, yes, I regret and I definitely shouldn't have done, but I wanted to come out and talk about it and be honest.
You know, one of the dancers on the show said to me the other day, oh, yeah, because we heard you are in rehab. I was like no. It wasn't -- it wasn't anything like that. I never had a problem.
But I felt like hopefully if I came out and talked about it and talked about it, that something that I have moved on from massively, that might help somebody in a way. But my life is so different from then. And I certainly couldn't be like that now.
MORGAN: You have sung with some of the greatest stars in the world. You have had this amazing career as a singer. Now the whole new thing with the dancing. What's been the big high for you professionally outside of what's going on now?
JENKINS: Honestly, it would be going out to entertain the troops in Afghanistan and Iraq. That is something that's become a real passion of mine. I'm a huge supporter of the military. I think they do an incredible job. So when I get invited to go out and sing for them, some of the best moments of my life.
MORGAN: I have to say, you're looking in dazzlingly good shape at the moment.
JENKINS: Thank you.
MORGAN: Bordering on quite skinny at the moment. What's going on here?
JENKINS: I know. My mom is over from Wales to make sure I'm eating properly.
MORGAN: Your mom is actually sitting five feet away, on guard, making sure I don't do anything naughty to her little girl.
JENKINS: Best behavior today.
MORGAN: If you were to win this show --
JENKINS: Don't say that.
MORGAN: It's biggy. We'll touch both banks. But if you were, it would definitely change things for you here. Is the dream still that you would have a huge singing career in America? Is that the ultimate Holy Grail for any big singer now, do you think? JENKINS: Well, I think, you know, singing has always been my big passion in life. You know, I'd love to come here and perform more. But honestly, in terms of this being a competition, I cannot think past the next elimination. And that's how I'm thinking about it.
I want to not think about the pressure and just see this as a really fun opportunity. And I think that's hopefully the way to handle it all.
MORGAN: We mentioned your mother is here. Your father very sadly died. You and I have talked about this before. What do you think he would make of his little girl now conquering America on the dance floor?
JENKINS: Oh, well, you know, I hope that he would be -- he would be happy and proud. And I know he's with me. I actually have a little word with him. Like I do when I'm singing, I have a little word with him before I step on the dance floor, and I say, dad, get my steps right, help me along. I know he's with me and I know he's watching.
MORGAN: Well, he's doing a pretty good job. Congratulations. Continued good luck with it. You're flying the flag for Britain and for Wales.
JENKINS: Thank you so much.
MORGAN: And you must come back and we'll do a longer interview. And I want to get you singing on this set.
JENKINS: I would love that.
MORGAN: Just don't break all the prospects, because it can be quite terrifying when your lungs open. Katherine, it's been a real pleasure. Lovely to see you again.
Katherine Jenkins, good luck to her on "Dancing With the Stars" next week. Coming up next, Only in America.
MORGAN: For tonight's Only in America, town for sale. You need to think big in little Buford, Wyoming. Nobody thinks bigger than resident Don Sammons, whose presence looms large over every crevice of the place.
He's the mayor. He mans the trading post. He even has his own zip code. Don, in short, is the big kahuna, the top dog, the veritable whale of Buford.
But that's hardly surprising given that he's the only resident. Yes, Don Sammons lives alone in Buford and has done for several decades. He is the town, which may sound pretty lonely but it has its advantages. For example, when it comes to public gripes and grievances, well, Don always has the last word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON SAMMONS, ONLY RESIDENT OF BUFORD, WYOMING: Meetings are always fun. I usually win most of those. Any discussions I'm usually right there at the top. People are amazed that they can meet the entire town in just a flash.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I bet President Obama would love that. Don's solitary utopia, though, may soon be over. Today, Buford went on the auction block. That's right. The entire town was put up for sale. The starting price was 100,000 dollars, not a bad deal, really, considering you get five building, 10 acres of land and a convenience store, and of course the potential joy of Don for company.
The bidding was intense, ferocious even. In the end, Buford went for a whopping 900,000 bucks. The winning bid came from two mysterious buyers from Vietnam. Now we don't know who they are. But you can be pretty sure that Don does.
And the trouble is that he doesn't like it. Nope, he's moving. He's going to leave Buford. He's going to go and live somewhere near his son, a long way from Buford.
Buford without Don Sammons? It's just unthinkable. That's all for us tonight. "AC 360" starts now.