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Secret Service Sex Scandal Uncovered; George Zimmerman Asks Judge to Step Aside

Aired April 16, 2012 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Coming to you live from New York City. Eleven -- count them, 11 -- Secret Service agents, their security clearance revoked after a massive sex scandal on foreign soil. How did the president`s top men allegedly get caught with a harem full of prostitutes in their lavish hotel rooms? I`m investigating, next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight a Secret Service sex scandal rocks the nation. Almost a dozen Secret Service agents busted after a Colombian prostitute says she wasn`t paid for her services. The agents are accused of boozy sexploits while they were supposed to be preparing for the president`s arrival in Colombia. You won`t believe how the scandal broke.

And is this just the tip of the iceberg? We`ll talk to famed Hollywood madam, Jodi "Babydol" Gibson.

And the media is now rushing into battle in the Trayvon Martin case, demanding that every document and every piece of evidence be released to the public. Will this be another Casey Anthony case, where every twist plays out in the public eye? I`ll have all the new developments.

Plus the Kardashians under fire again, with Kim barely recovered from her red-carpet flour bombing. Demonstrators converge on Kardashians clothing stores to protest Kim`s fur use. I`ll talk live to supermodel Joanna Krupa, and I`m taking your calls for the hour.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you know that Secret Service agents have flings with prostitutes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eleven agents are accused of bringing prostitutes to their hotel in Colombia just ahead of the president`s trip there.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If it turns out that some of the allegations that have been made in the press are confirmed, then, of course, I`ll be angry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Many of the agents are married. There are many women who are agents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s legal in one country, still could lead to a married man being blackmailed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prostitutes are often used by foreign intelligence services as an effort to infiltrate the inner circle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s too embarrassing for all of us. They`re dumb. They`re stupid and foolish. And they wrecked things for a lot of people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re embarrassed by it, that it occurred in Colombia. Though we`re not sure exactly what it is.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight the Secret Service caught with its pants down, a slew of new developments in what`s being called the worst scandal in Secret Service history.

Eleven elite Secret Service agents accused of bringing 11 prostitutes to their posh hotel rooms in South America. And tonight, it appears that these drunk sexploits could have compromised top secret information that could have put the president`s life in danger.


REP. PETER KING (D), NEW YORK: All I know is that Secret Service, 11 agents brought 11 women back to their hotel. This were (ph) being staged (ph) by a narco-terrorist group in Colombia. We have groups like FAAC (ph) in Colombia. It could be absolutely devastating.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is the hotel. It`s lush, it`s gorgeous, and your taxpayer dollars paid for these accommodations. While the president has since returned to the U.S., the security clearances of all 11 Secret Service agents have just been revoked, and just a few minutes ago.

The Secret Service members were supposed to be in Cartagena, Columbia, preparing for the president to arrive at an important summit. Instead, they spent the night allegedly partying and drinking heavily. Then these Secret Service men allegedly hired some local women to service them, if you know what I mean.

OK, to call this an embarrassment, that`s an understatement. Top brass clearly humiliated today.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re embarrassed by what occurred in Colombia, though we`re not sure exactly what it is. But what we do know is that we`ve distracted several of our members, distracted the issue from what was a very important regional engagement for our president. So we let the boss down.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The scandal broke after one prostitute refused to leave the hotel, complaining she hadn`t been paid by the Secret Service agent. A hotel manager reportedly came to the room and saw the two arguing. A police report was filed, and then suddenly, an international embarrassment for the United States, all over a few bucks.

Imagine -- imagine the idea of arguing with a prostitute in a hotel filled with reporters and dignitaries. What were these Secret Service agents -- and, by the way, a few military men as well -- thinking? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to "Naughty but Nice" Huff Po contributor, Rob Shuter. Rob, the international embarrassment. This is a scandal.

ROB SHUTER, "NAUGHTY BUT NICE" COLUMNIST, HUFFINGTON POST: Oh, absolutely, this should not be downplayed. This is a black eye on the face of America. People in London, people in Europe, everybody is talking about this story, and it`s a huge embarrassment, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think it`s the tip of the iceberg?

SHUTER: Absolutely, there is going to be much more to come, is what people are speculating in Europe. When you find prostitution, you often find many other illegal acts. And one just wonders what else they`re going to find out in the next couple of days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve got to say, what the Secret Service agents did specifically was not illegal, because Colombia has prostitution tolerance zones. That doesn`t mean it wasn`t a huge -- and I mean huge -- breach of security. Because let`s face it, some of these secret agents are married. OK? So that opens them up to the potential for blackmail.

I want to bring in Jodi "Babydol" Gibson, editor-in-chief of Corona Books, author of "Secrets of a Hollywood Super Madam."

You were a Hollywood madam for years. You had a black book. And you`ve told me that among the names were men in government who hired women to service them sexually. Don`t name names, please.

But when you hear, Jody, that 11 Secret Service agents hired 11 women, and reports are that two of them are supervisors, does that say to you a one-time-only event, or does this say to you, a habit, something they were used to doing when they went on road trips?

JODI "BABYDOL" GIBSON, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, CORONA BOOKS: I think it happens all the time, and often it seems that the men that work within the law feel that they`re above the law. And I can tell you absolutely in the investigation in my case, the head investigating officer saw my girl, paid the girl, had sex with the girl and then arrested her eight weeks later. And they do it all the time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. Now, but getting back to this, OK, this is what -- trying to think about it psychologically, like put my little Sherlock Holmes hat on.

OK. When the staff decides to do something, if it`s a first time only, 11 people might not suddenly, with two supervisors, decide to do that all at once. I mean, we go to a holiday dinner. If the supervises, like our executive producers above, then the boss says, OK, this is something we do. It`s a tradition. That`s what I`m saying, Jodi.

To me this smacks of a tradition, a habit. Eleven people don`t spontaneously, even when they`re drunk, jump up and say, "Let`s hire prostitutes" right before the president of the United States comes to town, Jodi.

GIBSON: No, but I can tell you absolutely a lot of the men in law enforcement feel that they are above the law and that the law doesn`t apply to them. Look at the 2009 case, the very famous attorney general in New York that got caught with a call girl and had to resign. We know who that is.


GIBSON: He was actually the governor.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Why are prostitutes considered such an enormous security risk? Listen to Congressman Peter King explain.


KING: Throughout history, we know how enemy forces use prostitutes or use women agents to penetrate the zone of security that the opposition has to try to find whatever secrets they can. Just being around the Secret Service, inside that zone of security, picking up information about the president`s travel schedule, what his agenda is.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The White House is downplaying how much these Secret Service agents were connected to the president. But NBC News is reporting all Secret Service personnel have copies of the president`s schedule in their hotel rooms, which they`re supposed to keep in safes.

Consider this. There`s been four bombing explosions in Colombia leading up to the summit, and you`re looking at wreckage from one of the explosions. Hundreds of homes have been damaged by various rebel groups. We`re not talking about going to a quiet little tourist destination.

I`ve got to bring in Steve Moore, a former FBI agent. This is absolutely shocking to me, and I think that there is a -- sort of a move here to sort of downplay the security risks involved. But if these men had the president`s schedule, given the explosions and whatnot, oh, my gosh. These women could have potentially gotten their hands on some very, very dangerous information.

STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI AGENT: Yes, I don`t know how anybody could in good conscience downplay this. That everybody in federal service, especially FBI agents, CIA, Secret Service, know that one of the biggest threats to our agency are people who have vices that are exploited by foreign intelligence services.

These guys, I mean, this was bonehead. What were they thinking? No. 1, doing it in the first place; No. 2, arguing with somebody; and then No. 3, doing it, 11 people at once. I mean, this was absolutely, off-the- charts epic stupid.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but I think it speaks to the culture. I mean, honestly, I`m very concerned, Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor. If they have an investigation, and it`s conducted by the Secret Service, guess what? I see a lot of this being swept under the rug. Already a lot of our questions are being pooh-poohed, as well. "This is confidential, top secret. We can`t tell you anything."

I would want to see an independent or congressional investigation into this.

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, and I think we will, Jane, for the very point you just brought up. We don`t want them policing themselves. You need an outside agency to step up and say, "OK, we need full disclosure." So eventually, that`s what we`re going to see. Now this has hit the media.

If this hadn`t come out big, it might have been swept under the rug and it might have been, "Oh, pooh-pooh, it`s not that big a deal." But this is an enormous deal. This is the life of the president of the United States that these people are tasked with protecting.

And what they did was violate every trust that was placed in them, not by the president, but by the people of the United States. You know, we expect them -- we want them to do their job. So yes, it`s not going to end here, Jane. We are going to see outside agencies coming in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Indeed, three members, according to NBC News, three members are part of the Counter Assault Team, the CAT. These are the ones who ride with the presidential motorcade, and their responsibility is to neutralize any attack. So right there.

Carol, Indiana. We`re going to go to the phones quickly. Carol, Indiana, your question or thought?

CALLER: You know, I thought about this when I heard the story. Hi, Jane, how are you doing?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m doing great.

CALLER: I think -- my response was they could have been given drugs or anything to debilitate their focus from being on the No. 1 man. And this is despicable on all levels. And they should be fired. And I can`t stop thinking when you do stuff like this and you`re comfortable doing it, this has probably been going on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is it the tip of the iceberg? On the other side, we`re going to talk to attorney Lisa Bloom about this, and we`re continuing to take your calls.

We`re also talking about George Zimmerman later. His attorney wants the judge off the case. There`s a whole bunch of breaking news on that front.

But first, did Secret Service agents bring prostitutes back to their hotel in Colombia? Well, even the government is saying, yes, 11 of them brought 11 prostitutes. What were they thinking? And is this just the beginning?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This opens the president to possible assassination because these prostitutes could have blackmailed these agents. They`re -- a lot of them are married. They could have demanded all sorts of things, including access to the president for a terrorist drug cartel.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you know, in Colombia, they didn`t break the law. What they broke was the discipline and the predictability of not compromising yourself, particularly making yourself exposed to blackmail, because what`s legal in one country still could lead to a married man being blackmailed.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Almost a dozen Secret Service agents allegedly took almost a dozen prostitutes to their hotel room. Unbelievable. And then in a spectacular face of bad timing, well, as my buddy Rob Shuter said, is it a case of Americans gone wild?

It just so happens that, as chance would have it, it`s the one night after years of watching her, that Hillary Clinton decides to let loose. I don`t want to laugh, but it is unintentionally comical. She decides, "Oh, I`m going to go in Colombia, same place, Cartagena and I`m going to dance" for the first time that we`ve ever seen her dance, practically. "And I`m also going to down a brewsky." So there she is at Cartagena`s Cafe Havana Saturday night.

Listen, if -- Hillary`s a human being. She`s got to let her hair down every so often. But oh my gosh, Rob Shuter, the timing of this?

SHUTER: What is going on in this city? We mustn`t let any more Americans go there. This is such an embarrassment. Hillary, we`ve got to say, we`ve never, ever seen her let her hair down. This is just such bad timing. The message this is sending to the world is not good.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s like America went on spring break, but it`s not funny.

Lisa Bloom, thank you for your patience. It`s a very serious subject, because to me, what gets me upset, is that -- and I`m not talking about Hillary. I`m back to the guys.

This is -- women are half of the taxpayers in this country at least. And this is an insult to American women. It`s an insult to the women of Latin America. It`s an insult to anybody who cares about women. It is arrogant, and it`s just -- it`s a moral compass that is completely broken, Lisa.

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Yes. I mean, I have a few points that I haven`t heard anybody make about the prostitution issue, but I want to defend Hillary. She`s a fabulous secretary of state.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We were just kidding.

BLOOM: Strong woman. If she wants to have a beer and dance around, I say good for her, because she works hard during the day. And there`s nothing wrong with that.

The prostitution scandal is completely different. You know, one thing nobody talks about is the fact that most prostitutes in the world, whether they`re in a place where prostitution is legal or illegal, are sex slaved. I don`t use the word "trafficked." I use the word "sex slaves," because many are taken by force. They are drugged by their pimps. They`re not allowed to get any or most of the profits from their work. And they`re not allowed to leave. That`s the definition of slavery.

So any man who patronizes a prostitute is probably helping somebody become enslaved. That`s the first one.

The second point is that isn`t there a code of conduct for the Secret Service?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course there is.

BLOOM: They`re representing the government and our president. They`re representing all of us abroad. How dare they engage in this culture of depravity where so many of them, including supervisors, are doing this kind of thing? It`s a slap in the face for the American people. They should all be fired.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And I agree with you, 100 percent. Sex trafficking should have been on the agenda as an issue, not on the menu. OK? This is something that we need to, as women around the world, focus on. You`re absolutely right, it`s sexual slavery.

Jody "Babydol" Gibson, a Hollywood madam, on the other side.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More Secret Service sex scandal -- say that three times -- but first your "Viral Video of the Day."







CLINT EASTWOOD, ACTOR: You`re under arrest, too. Secret Service.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Major Simms, Secret Service. You have a little bomb here (ph). You still got those bear claws?

BEN STILLER, ACTOR: Sometimes I have to just stand in one place for 12 hours and stare at a wall. You start to see things. Your feet, the pain in your feet.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: YouTube clips from "In the Line of Fire," "First Kid" and of course, Ben Stiller on the TV show "Freaks and Geeks."

I believe we`ve over-romanticized, we`ve over-glamorized the roles of Secret Service agents on some level. These agents who feel they have to live up to this grandiose imagery. But what I want to know from Jodi "Babydol" Gibson, a Hollywood super madam, is how does this happen?

We were just talking, Rob and I, 11 women carted to the hotel. That didn`t happen like that. There had to be a lot of planning to make that happen. Tell us, Jodi.

GIBSON: Yes, you know, Jane. There was a certain book, not mine, written about a particular president who was married, who was a womanizer. And when this president, whom we all love and know, was governor, he used to have his own law enforcement shuffling the women in and out and hiding them from his wife. So it`s not predicated on...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, specific examples aside, I want to know how this goes down. We`re talking taxi cabs. We`re talking phone calls. We`re talking coordinating with pimps. I mean, these women didn`t all spontaneously appear at this hotel. This had to have been planned.

GIBSON: No. Well, they have a contact. The contact knows the girls, and the contact knows the girls. They do it. It`s not predicated on white slavery, although I love Lisa. That has nothing to do with it. They do it because they can.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, I certainly -- I don`t abide by the hypothetical notion that women who engage in prostitution are getting, you know, life experience credits for their graduate degree. A lot of them are runaways. They are grabbed at the bus stop. They are put on drugs and they are kept as sex slaves.

I studied this. I went to a sex trafficking conference, where I met some of these girls who have escaped. And once they`re hooked, and their pimp`s got them, they cannot get away. They are, in fact, sex slaves. Now, you may disagree. But the question to you, Jodi...

GIBSON: I don`t disagree.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... is this. The reason I want to know about this, I want to know how good they are, how much of a habit they are. How much this is the tip of the iceberg. Because I honestly believe if they did this here, they have done this where they have gone over and over again.

GIBSON: Absolutely, it`s very prevalent, and they do it because they can. They call a contact who has the girls, and she supplies the dates for that evening. There isn`t all -- I mean, there`s a strategy involved, because obviously, there`s a security. They have to get the girls in and out. But it doesn`t take that long to put together.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I guess Steve Moore from the FBI, what I`m asking is, they`re going to investigate. If they find out that they have done this in other countries, what next?

MOORE: Well then this will be a major investigation within the Secret Service. They`ll have to go through a systematic review of everything they`ve done in the past 20 years.

When they have supervisors involved in this, it shows that it is condoned. It is facilitated. And when you get a badge and you`re Secret Service or you`re FBI, you stand up. You have a different standard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Breaking news in the George Zimmerman murder trial, next.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Zimmerman could get out of jail this week; a bond hearing scheduled in Sanford, Florida on Friday.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, CHARGED WITH TRAYVON MARTIN`S MURDER: Hey, we`ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there is a real suspicious guy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just said he shot him dead. A person is dead laying on the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Sanford police department is conducting a fair investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s gun shots.

SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: Our son was not committing any crime.


CROWD: No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you following him?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok, we don`t need you to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Zimmerman has made the statement of self- defense.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The neighborhood watch is neighborhood watch, not neighborhood shoot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you see when you look face to face across to Mr. Zimmerman?

MARK O`MARA, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: I see a very, very frightened 28-year-old who is very sorry for the way things happened.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight the gloves are off in the prosecution of George Zimmerman. And it`s official people, Zimmerman`s attorney wants the currently assigned judge off the case. Defense attorney Mark O`Mara filed the paperwork today demanding Judge Jessica Recksiedler step aside. And she needs to make a decision before Zimmerman`s bond hearing this Friday.

Here`s the issue: Judge Recksiedler is married to Jason Recksiedler, who is the law partner of HLN legal analyst, Mark Nejame -- get out your score card. George Zimmerman asked Mark Nejame to represent him twice but Nejame turned him down.


MARK NEJAME, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Interestingly because Mr. Zimmerman had wanted to hire us on two separate occasions, and I respectfully declined but then referred the case to mark. And in between took a position as a CNN analyst and now --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And what`s Zimmerman`s attorney, Mark O`Mara trying to hide, you may ask? Remember he`s trying to keep evidence and key documents in this case from going public. Check it out.


O`MARA: What I am seeking on my client`s behalf and just in the interest of justice in a temporary basis, that we do a complete sealing of that record that no one have access to except for the court -- the appropriate court and court personnel and, of course, the attorneys involved.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But now dozens of news organizations including CNN are saying not so fast. Today they filed a motion to get those documents unsealed. If the media wins, just imagine what information we could soon get about the Trayvon Martin shooting. Information like phone records, what Trayvon`s girlfriend heard that night over the phone. Any witness accounts, forensics and even Trayvon`s autopsy.

At the rate we`re going, you have to wonder if this could become like that other high profile controversial case also out of the Orlando, Florida area, the Casey Anthony murder trial, a crush of media every day, swarms of people lining up for tickets to get court seats, trial watchers, even brawling outside the courthouse. Is that what we`re going to see this time around?

Remember these wild scenes? Call me 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla, you were smack in the middle, of course, of the Casey Anthony case. Leonard, this is all happening in the very same area, the Orlando, Florida area. If the media wins and details start spilling out, give us a comparison, how might this compare to the Casey Anthony case?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, the situation here is that you have an individual in custody, and you have a victim right at the gate. So it`s going to get a lot of notoriety because if they release the autopsy report, and the forensic reports from the officers that specialize in how the gun was fired, where it was at and all that, you`re going to have a lot of people looking at this right off the bat. Because you`ve got a body and you`ve got a person in custody, looking for bail. Then you`ve got the situation about the judge, will she, or will she not recuse herself. You`ve got many angles here that you didn`t have in the Casey Anthony case -- right from the start.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, and every kind of -- we used to call it the discovery dump. And I come in to work and another discovery dump and it will be like 4,000 pages of documents and there were bombshells in almost every page, practically. It`s hard not to predict the Casey Anthony-esque madhouse when you think of the George Zimmerman trial.

Casey Anthony, in jail for nearly three years before she went to trial and we were bombarded with -- remember those jailhouse interviews. Remember this.



CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Casey, hold on sweetheart. Settle down baby.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody is letting me speak. You want me to talk then give me --

CINDY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll listen to you. Go sweetheart.

CASEY ANTHONY: -- three seconds to say something. I`m not in control over any of this, because I don`t know what the hell is going on.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Rob Shuter, "Naughty but Nice", you had a thought?

ROB SHUTER, "NAUGHTY BUT NICE" COLUMNIST: Yes. I think what separates these two cases: in the Casey case we had a beautiful young woman. Now generally in the media, Jane, women always play better than men. Women watch women, men watch women.

With men it`s quite different. That`s why if you look at covers of magazines, 90 percent of them will be women.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Interesting. I find that fascinating because there are other factors in this case that there weren`t in the Casey Anthony case, notable a race, the issue of guns, the issue of the "Stand Your Ground" law.

And so Beth Karas, you covered it as well. You and I were down there with our knees in mud during those storms in Orlando covering the Casey Anthony case. How do you think these two will compare and contrast?

BETH KARAS, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, you know, I do believe that the Zimmerman case has an even broader appeal to people because it`s involves such critical issues in our society. Race relations and gun control, the self-defense laws, so I think it could be even bigger.

I do want to address the discovery issue. Because the information comes from a couple of sources, not just the court file, which is currently sealed and obviously the sealing is being challenged, but from the state attorney`s office. They`re the ones who gave those big document dumps because they were complying with the discovery demands. Those documents weren`t filed with the courts. So it remains to be seen if the court`s going to also tell the state attorney here that the discovery that clearly the media gets, as soon as it`s made available to the defense, the media gets it. We can`t have, that`s the autopsy report and the police report. I believe that the media will prevail under Florida`s law.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, do you think the media is going to win? Do you agree with Beth? And if so are we going to see like jailhouse conversations between George Zimmerman and his brother?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think the media stands a very good chance of winning because the biggest issue that they pointed hey is you know what; we`re entitled to a hearing on.

There is a three pronged test, and the defense has to go through all three of those prongs and prove to the court that there is a serious and imminent threat to the defendant if this stuff is released. They have to prove that there`s no other alternative. And this sort of just point -- you know, the defense stood up and said we want it sealed. State said we don`t oppose and the judge said, ok done.

And the media say, no, hold up, we have a chance to be heard on this. They have to prove certain things, so I think they will prevail, but I don`t think, Jane, what we`re going to see is, I don`t think Mark O`Mara is going to let his client have all of these conversations we saw Casey Anthony. Casey Anthony was a defendant who was going to do what she was going to do, she wasn`t going to be controlled. She wasn`t going to shut her mouth.

I don`t think we`re going to see that with George Zimmerman. I think Mark O`Mara has sat him down and said don`t talk to anybody. It`s all in court.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Two or three issues we have nailed down. We think the media is going to win this and we`re going to get some of the evidence that the defense wants sealed.

Let`s talk about the judge having to jump out possibly, the clock ticking for Judge Jessica Recksiedler to decide if she will recuse herself, get off the case or not. She`d only be a judge for a year and criminal law is not her specialty. She has never presided over a murder trial.

Now, in a case like this, if fame is what you want, you will surely get it. The down side, everything you say or do is subject to potential ridicule. Remember O.J. Simpson`s Judge Lance Ito? He became a household name, he became famous. But a lot of people thought he let the trial get away from him and let Simpson`s attorney Johnny Cochran dominate. He became the subject of ridicule.

So I`ll throw it back out to Lisa Bloom attorney with the Bloom Firm. If she does recuse herself, is that a curse or a blessing for this judge?

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: She`s got to recuse herself, Jane. This is not even a close question. Her husband`s law partner is a television analyst on this issue. The argument is going to be that is that she makes certain rulings to make it more explosive so her husband`s law partner benefits. I mean I`m not saying that`s true or untrue; that`s going to be the argument. And there`s going to be basis for appeal based on that argument.

The standard for judges is appearance of impropriety. That`s what they have to avoid. Anything that`s even close -- they`ve got to recuse themselves. So unfortunately -- I`m sure she`s a very nice person. I`m sure she`s confident. That has nothing to do with it. She`s got to step down.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think it`s a blessing. If she has never done a criminal trial before -- a murder trial, you don`t want to step on to this hot potato, you`ll burn your foot.

All right. Steve, Canada -- quick question or thought, Steve.

STEVE, CANADA (via telephone): I just wanted to say that I have listened to the 911 call and it sounded to me that George Zimmerman had been, during the course of the encounter, violent because Trayvon Martin was crying and yelling out, and I think when the autopsy is revealed, the results, it will show that the body suffered numerous blows to it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Steve, you`re raising a very important point and that`s when we get, if the media wins and we get to see the autopsy report, we`ll see whether Trayvon had injuries beyond the gunshot.

Very quickly, I want to ask a yes or no question, Holly Hughes, do you think he`s going to get bail on Friday?

I think it will be set very high and he won`t be able to make it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Beth Karas, ten seconds.

KARAS: I do think that some bail will be set. I agree with Holly, it may not be a reasonable bail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, if there`s a new judge, there could be a delay in that bail hearing.

Up next, Kim Kardashian -- oh, boy, the 72-day marriage, then the flower bomb attack and now the Kardashians under fire, and it`s all about fur. We`re taking your calls and show you the protests and talk to a supermodel who`s opposing Kim.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a big story breaking with the Kardashians. Tonight, Kim`s bad rap?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need compassion for the fashion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kim Kardashian, well, she gets flower bombed.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Looks like the Kardashian clan is back in hot water, the family famous for making headlines back at it again, and it isn`t a quickly divorce or reality TV drama this time.

Demonstrators are outside their clothing store, Dash, outraged over Kim`s fur wearing and claims that the store has in the past sold fur.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kim, notorious four her love of fur. In fact under a month ago, she was flower bombed on the red carpet by an anti-fur activist. Let`s watch.




VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to my very first guest, supermodel Joanna Krupa. Joanna, you have been one of those protesting at the Dash store, protesting against fur. How did you get involved and why?

JOANNA KRUPA, SUPERMODEL: Well, you know me, Jane, just like you I`m a huge animal lover and I`m against any animal cruelty. But the way it started was my girlfriend, Katy Perry, who is a model and we actually started this together. She was having lunch next to Dash and she looks over and there`s fur on the racks.

She`s like Joanna, we have got to do a petition. So that`s end of January, we started a petition. Our goal was to get 10,000 signatures. And now I`m so proud to say we have over 150,000 signatures begging them to stop selling fur. And I think we got what we wanted. We did the protests about two weeks ago. And from Kardashian`s tweets, of course, they`re denying, denying, denying. But back in February, we had proof of receipts. We have proof of a rabbit fur vest that they were selling.

And I think we got what we wanted. I really think they`re going to stop selling fur, or at least they`re going to say they`re going to stop selling fur, but we`ll be there to make sure there`s no more fur at the Dash stores.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, we reached out to the rep for the Kardashian sisters and the Dash store, and we`re told, quote, "There was absolutely no fur at any of their stores", end quote. That sounds quite definitive to me. But as you just heard, Joanna and her friend did some sleuthing at one of the Dash stores and paid a visit. They paid for a vest.

Now here it is. Ok. There it is, if you look at the tag, it says it`s 100 percent rabbit fur. Joanna gave us what she says is a receipt of purchase. And there is the receipt. You can see that it was purchased on February 6 purportedly of this year. That`s February 6, 2012 from a Dash store. And it even lists the item as mixed rabbit fur.

When Joann`s friend tweeted Kim about the fur vest, she responded, quote, "Yes, this receipt is a few months old; we no longer carry fur and won`t going forward. TY for hearing our voice. Kim. "

In fact Kim later updated saying that as of recently -- that`s recently -- there`s no fur in Dash stores. So I want to go to Chris Derose, president of Last Chance for Animals. You`ve been doing some of the demonstrations that occurred all across the country at various stores this weekend. Does that sound like a victory for those who don`t want to see animals killed for fur? It seems like they are saying, well, they`re not going to do it anymore.

CHRIS DEROSE, PRESIDENT, LAST CHANCE FOR ANIMALS: Well, they`re saying that. But you see, Jane, officially they won`t come and do it. Their agent said that I will not provide you, nor do I want to provide you, nor do they want to provide you any official statement. Why don`t they want to do it? I ask you, what`s the problem? Why don`t they do it?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, I want to say that I want to invite any member of the Dash store or any of the Kardashians on at any time to give their side of the story, we want to be fair.

I`ll also be full disclosure, I`m an opponent of fur myself; I have seen the videos of animals being anally electrocuted, skinned alive and I have lost sleep over it.

So don`t go anywhere, we`re just getting started on this.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More Kim controversy in a second. But we all deserve a little laugh break.





CLORIS LEACHMAN, ACTRESS: I`m coming after you, Kim. Look out.


LEACHMAN: About wearing fur.

ANGELA KINSEY, ACTRESS: Kim Kardashian, don`t wear fur. It`s lame. All right? Peace.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kim owns the store with her sisters Khloe and Kourtney and Khloe shot a PETA ad to stop fur use. Watch this from YouTube and PETA


KHLOE KARDASHIAN, REALITY TV STAR: Do your part. You think it`s small but it`s so impactful. Hi, this is Khloe Kardashian for PETA.

I decided to pose for PETA "I`d rather go naked campaign". I`m so honored to even be asked; this is such is an amazing group of women. And two, it`s such a powerful statement. And I really want people to know that I`m serious about the fur campaign. I just don`t think it`s necessary.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. After Kim`s flower bombing, Khloe told PETA forget about it. She was upset. She thought it was bullying.

SHUTER: I`m not a fan of wearing fur. I`m not a fan of hurting animals. But what I`m really not a fan of is attacking a celebrity and breaking the law. Collect your petitions, protest the stores; don`t put your hands on somebody.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Lisa Bloom, here`s the thing, if you look at what happens with animals at fur farms, it`s so graphic that we honestly can`t even show you more than a second or two and I`ve seen the video of these animals skinned alive.

I don`t think it`s nice to throw powder on somebody but they have also -- and this is just the little stuff, this isn`t the killing. This is just how they`re kept their entire lives until they die. These are the nice pictures.

But PETA has written letters to them, Last Chance for Animals, everybody begged them. What do you say, Lisa?

BLOOM: Well, I have on my lap, my rescue dog Moxie. I hope you can see her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, we can.

BLOOM: This is the way fur is supposed to look. It`s supposed to be on its original owner. It`s not supposed to be on our backs. And Kim Kardashian, I ask you, would you skin my dog and wear her fur? I don`t think so.

Well, what`s the difference between my dog are or your pet or these poor animals that are kept in cages, electrocuted and skinned alive? There is no difference. Nobody should be wearing fur in this day and age and, frankly, we shouldn`t be wearing leather either. I don`t wear either. Skins belong on their original owners, period.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, it seems like Kim is always a hot topic of conversation. I wish I could bring my dogs into the studio and show you them as well. We all love our dogs. There`s always this disconnect between people who love their dogs and all other sentient beings that are just like dogs. In fact, in China they do skin dogs for fur. A lot of faux fur is actually dog fur that`s being sold as faux fur because it`s cheaper to use a real animal than it is to make the faux fur.

Now Kim is allegedly, reputedly, possibly hooked up with rapper Kanye West. I don`t know that for a fact; I`m not watching them. But just by coincidence Kanye is openly hostile toward PETA.

Listen to this from his latest single "Way Too Cold", formerly called "Sarah Flu" (ph). Listen to the words.


KANYE WEST, SINGER: Can`t a young (EXPLETIVE DELETED) get money anymore. Tell PETA my mink is dragging on the floor. Can I have a bad (EXPLETIVE DELETED) without no flaws. Come to meet me without no drawers.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joanna, your response.

KRUPA: You know what; I think they make an amazing couple. Obviously they both have huge egos and insecurity and both harmless human beings. But you know what; I wish her the best and shame on both of them, seriously. It`s despicable.

I want to make clear why we started the whole Dash petition. It`s because Khloe Kardashian did do the anti-fur campaign and I feel she was a hypocrite and that`s why I am so strongly against them selling fur at Dash.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. On the other side some final thoughts.



CROWD: Thank you, Jane, we love you and the animals do, too.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chris Derose Last Chance for Animals; Rob Shuter is here saying, well, you know, you can`t take the law into your own hands, flower bombing. They did try to write letters to Kim. The animals have no voice. They can`t write letters.

DEROSE: That`s right. You know, I`d like to make a point about something, too. Two years ago, Jane, Kim made a PSA for Last Chance for Animals on puppy mills saying that it`s inhumane the way these puppies are treated for profit, the way they`re bred for profit. What does she think is happening on fur farms? They`re bred for profit. And it`s extremely inhumane and they die in the most horrible fashion.

They are anally electrocuted. They`re skinned alive. I`ve been on these fur farms. I`ve seen it. It is really disgusting.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`re not showing you anything involving Dash now. This is just fur. Let your conscience be your guide.

Nancy next.