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Lesbian Scout Leader Removed; Lovitz Strikes Back

Aired April 30, 2012 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: All right. Here we go.

So what did actor Jon Lovitz do that the law could not? He got swift justice by exposing this picture to the world. He`s here. We`re answering your questions about exactly that.

Call us right now. The number is 1-855-DRDREW5. That is 373-7395.

But, first up, an ousted Boy Scout troop leader wants the job back. Her sexual orientation seems to be an issue. The question is: does it matter to you?

I want to take your calls. We`re live tonight. Again, lines are open at 1-855-DRDREW5.

Let`s get started.


PINSKY: All right. As I said, we are live tonight.

And I want you to imagine this: your 7-year-old son joins a group that said, "We have your son with us, but you, yourself, are not welcome. Your son can join, you can`t."

That is the story of Jennifer Tyrrell, who`s with me now.

Jennifer, your son, Cruz, and your experience with the Boy Scouts of America. Tell us about that.

JENNIFER TYRRELL, LESBIAN FORMER BOY SCOUT CLAN MOTHER: Well, we were in the Scouts for about a year, and we had an awesome year. We`ve done a lot of amazing things and recently I received a phone call saying, you`re out. Basically how it went down.

PINSKY: Well, Jennifer, let me understand something. Were you like a leader, a scout leader, or just another parent involved with your son?

TYRRELL: No, I`m a den leader, was a den leader for the Tiger Scouts, which was the first graders.

PINSKY: OK. What was their reason for dismissing you?

TYRRELL: My sexual orientation.

PINSKY: And so --

TYRRELL: They said it was based on nothing but that.

PINSKY: That you`re -- are you married, or do you have a partner right now? Can you hear me?

TYRRELL: We can`t legally marry. But I have a partner.

PINSKY: You have a stable partner. Do you have any other children?

TYRRELL: We have four kids. We have four children all together.

PINSKY: All right. You have four kids. You`re actively involved in the Lion Scouts, it`s called?


PINSKY: Tiger Scouts. I`m way off there. Sorry about that.

You`re enthusiastic. You`re helping your son with this thing. He loves the whole experience. All of a sudden, you can`t participate because you`re gay parents. That`s the issue, right?


PINSKY: OK. All right. Listen. We`re going to take calls on this. Again, the number is 1-855-DRDREW5. I`m sorry, it`s 855 yes, DRDREW5. We always have to remind myself of that number.

I got a call from Barbara. She`s on the line from Colorado.

Barbara, what do you want to say?

BARBARA, CALLER FROM COLORADO: Dr. Drew, I`ve read on your Facebook, people say that her being there is going to turn this into Sodom and Gomorrah and everything else. I mean, and I believe that people have got to start being more tolerant.

It`s a national organization with a nation of different people. People are born with their sexuality. We got to stop acting like we`re very tyrannical (ph) -- where, in fact, we`re not. We need to deal with our sexuality in the open.

PINSKY: Jennifer, what do you say to that?

TYRRELL: Thanks, Barb. I say thank you. That`s exactly right.

PINSKY: What`s weird, Barbara, correct me if I`m wrong on this, it`s almost like people have this bizarre belief, and it could only be described as a belief, that her being gay is somehow going to be caught by the -- you know what I mean? Like it`s a contagion or something. Jennifer is appropriately laughing.

Barbara, you think that`s what it is? People are just afraid of it?

BARBARA: Well, I`m wondering, did her mother show her gay things that made her a lesbian?

PINSKY: Barbara, because that`s how you make a gay person, you show them things. But, go, Jennifer, you answer that. Go ahead.

TYRRELL: I was raised to be straight just like everybody else.

BARBARA: Right. OK. So, no.

TYRRELL: It`s just normal for me. I wasn`t -- right.

BARBARA: I`m sorry.

PINSKY: Barbara, I really appreciate your call. I`m going to go now to Terry in Florida.

Terry, you got some thoughts. Go right ahead.

TERRY, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Yes, I do, Dr. Drew. How are you doing tonight?

PINSKY: Good. Thanks for calling us.

And Jennifer is here. We`re talking about the issue of her being dismissed as a Cub Scout leader -- Tiger Scout, I beg your pardon because of her sexual orientation.

TERRY: Some people are going to hate me for saying this but I think it`s right.

PINSKY: OK, tell us why.

TERRY: Like Barb said, we should be more accepting these I thing we`ve been too accepting.

When I was the Boy Scouts in the early `70s, we didn`t have anything like this. You know what I mean? Like I said, I think we`re to darn accepting these days. It`s the Boy Scouts of America, plain and simple.

PINSKY: Well, should no moms be involved with the Boy Scouts?

TERRY: No, I`m not saying that.


TERRY: But -- it`s a tough one, you know, Dr. Drew? But I just don`t agree with it.

TYRRELL: How can you be too accepting? What does that even mean? What color hairdo you have? Should I accept it?

I`m just saying. How can we be too accepting? That`s silly. I was an active parent, very involved, more so than a lot of other parents. And that`s really what this boils down to.

I want to be involved in my son`s life. Whether you accept it or not, I don`t feel like anybody has the right to tell me I cannot participate in my son`s life.

PINSKY: Terry, go ahead.

TERRY: Just the way I feel. My opinion. You have your opinion. And so, you know --

PINSKY: OK. And listen, Terry, I want you to know. I really appreciate you coming sharing your opinion. That`s why I like doing a show like this, we encourage our audience to come in and sort of hash this out a little bit and challenge one another on this.

I mean, Jennifer, you`re up for that, aren`t you?


PINSKY: OK. Fair enough.

So, Diana in Michigan. What did you want to say?

DIANA, CALLER FROM MICHIGAN: Jennifer, I want to say that I`m so proud of you. I`m the mother of a lesbian daughter --

TYRRELL: Thank you.

DIANA: -- and coincidentally this very day, she is due to give birth to a baby boy.

TYRRELL: Ah, congratulations.

DIANA: The caller that has just proceeded me, I don`t care if a parent is left or right handed, I don`t care the color of their eyes or their blood type. I just care that they love their child and they want to be involved with their child. And we need to stop judging and we need to stop qualifying who can and can`t participate in their child`s life.

PINSKY: There you go. Thank you, Diana, for that comment.

TYRRELL: I agree. Thank you.

PINSKY: Along these same lines, we have a caller -- I believe you guys in the control room can help me out with this. We have a father, I think, whose son was in your group, Jennifer, is that right? Am I correct?

Yes, Robert Dunn. He`s on the phone right now.

Robert, what did you have to say about this issue?

TYRRELL: Yes. Hi, Rob.

ROBERT DUNN, CUB SCOUT PARENT (via telephone): Hi. We need to judge people on their character and the job that they do. It`s completely ridiculous that they made her resign whenever she did a much better job than the people that they`ve had before, and the people that they have now. And just because she`s gay does not mean that she can`t do the job.

PINSKY: Let me ask you this, Robert. Let me ask you this. So she`s doing a great job, you`re happy with -- your son is being led by her in the group.

What were other parents saying? Is this controversial amongst other groups or is there unanimity of opinion like yours?

DUNN: I have not heard anybody say anything negative about the job that she did.

PINSKY: Is there an outrage? Are they pulling their sons from the organization? What are the parents doing about this? Anything?

DUNN: It is an outrage. It`s an outrage that they removed her. It`s not at all an outrage against her. It`s an outrage with the Boy Scouts.

And one other thing that the Boy Scouts says is that they don`t want sexuality to be brought up and to be an issue with the Boy Scouts and they`re the ones who brought it up. They`re the ones that made her resign because of her sexuality. Therefore, I had to explain to my son what gay meant.

I shouldn`t have had to do that. The boy scouts made that happen. Not her.

PINSKY: I would say, Robert, I`m glad you had that conversation. But I agree. No one should force you to have that conversation.

I do want to read what the Boy Scouts -- they gave us a couple statements. I do want to represent their opinion here. I wonder if somebody could put that up for me. Here go.

They were asked to join in discussion. They declined that. But they did give me this statement.

"We do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the Boy scouts of America."

That is part of their statement. I`ll be giving some more in just a second.

And we`ve got Crystal in North Carolina.

Go right ahead there, Crystal.

CRYSTAL, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Yes, I agree in the organization in that they removed this lesbian mother from being a leader, because it`s not healthy for children to see this type of behavior. It isn`t right that society continues to promote this behavior. I`m not saying that she should be judged, but there are certain ethical and moral standards that a Boy Scout needs to uphold. And it`s definitely not a behavior that I --

PINSKY: Crystal, what is the behavior that`s an issue? Because my understanding is, just hearing now from Robert Dunn who`s a father of one of the other Cub Scouts, or Tiger Scouts, excuse me, she was just doing leadership position and there was no issue, no discussion about her sexuality or who she was or who the other mom was? Or it was forced upon him by the fact that she was dismissed.

Oh, Crystal`s dropped off the line.

All right. Well, listen, this is an interesting conversation. And I appreciate everyone being relatively civil about it. I think it`s an important conversation. We have to challenge ourselves on this.

We`re going to keep this conversation going a little bit. I want to keep your calls coming. It`s 855-DRDREW5 is the phone number, DRDREW5 -- 855-DRDREW5. Call in, we`ll put you on.

We`ll sort of challenge ourselves to see if we can mix this up a little bit.

And I`m going to bring someone into this conversation who knows precisely what it`s like to have two parents of the same sex, his childhood with two moms. His thoughts on Jennifer`s situation, and, of course, your opinion on this issue.

Stay with us.


ZACH WAHLS, RAISED BY A LESBIAN COUPLE: I was raised by a gay couple and I`m doing pretty well. I scored a 99 percentile on the ACT. I`m actually an Eagle Scout. I own and operate my own small business. If I was your son, Mr. Chairman, I believe I`d make you very proud.




WAHLS: In my 19 years, not once have I ever been confronted by an individual who realized independently that I was raised by a gay couple. And you know why? Because the sexual orientation of my parents has had zero effect on the content of my character.


PINSKY: And that was Zach Wahls speaking in front of the Iowa House of Representatives opposing the end of civil unions in the state of Iowa. He`s the author of "My Two Moms: Lessons of Love, Strength, and What Makes a Family."

And again, we are talking -- there is his book there.

We`re talking about a woman, Jennifer, who`s a lion -- a Tiger Scout leader and she was dismissed -- I`m sorry. If it`s not Cub Scout, I seem to get very confused.

TYRRELL: Cub Scout is fine.

PINSKY: I can`t keep these cats of prey organized in my mind.

Like a Cub Scout. And you`re a leader in the organization. The other parents loved you and thought you did a good job. Your sexual orientation was not an issue until you were dismissed by Boy Scouts of America. At which point, the other parents are required to talk to their kids about your sexual orientation as the reason you were dismissed.

Now, I have Zach on the phone right now.

And, Zach, your speech was passionate and impressionable, heartfelt. It was actually a video that went viral in no time. Now, as someone who is raised by a lesbian couple, what do you think about Jennifer`s story?

WAHLS (via telephone): Yes, you know, Dr. Drew, thank you so much for having me on, first of all. Hey, Jennifer, good to talk to you again.

I`m not sure if you mentioned this to your viewers, but I`m actually also an Eagle Scout. My moms were both participants in my scouting experience growing up. So I think I definitely bring probably a different perspective to this issue than most of the callers who you have had on tonight. And growing up --

PINSKY: Please bring them. But, Zach, I mean --

WAHLS: Definitely.

PINSKY: -- you`re an impressive guy. You`re an impressive guy. You`re an Eagle Scout. You have lesbian moms.

It didn`t affect your sexuality. It didn`t affect anything about you, except the fact that you`re an amazing guy.

What do you want to say to the Boy Scouts? Do you have a particular message for them? How to we make sense of all this?

WAHLS: Yes. You know, this is an incredibly unfortunate incident. I had the pleasure to meeting Jennifer last week and her son, Cruz, the Tiger Cub who precipitated this whole thing. This has all been revolving around.

So this is a very unfortunate reminder of this archaic policy the Boy Scouts of America still has on the books. It`s an unfortunate policy. It reminds me, in fact, very much of the United States federal government, at this point, their so-called Defense of Marriage Act, still formally believes that same-sex couples, like my parents, or like Ms. Tyrrell and her partner, are engaged in a second-class kind of relationship and are not, in fact, worthy of all the various rights that straight people have when it comes to relationships.

And so, the fact that the Boy Scouts have this policy on the books is not only discouraging but quite frankly disappointing. And for a very long time, the Boy Scouts of America has been the preeminent leadership organization through which young men in this country have learned those values -- trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent. And they`re willing to deprive Jennifer`s son from that experience simply because his mother happens to be a lesbian, it`s sad really.

PINSKY: OK. I agree. Zach, I actually agree with you 100 percent, although I do think private organizations ought to have the opportunity to set their own course. I`m a little conflicted when they set a course I take issue with.

But let`s take some calls. Frank in Illinois. Go right ahead, Frank.

FRANK, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Yes, sir. I just want to say, I think it`s in the bylaws of the Boy Scouts that there`s not to be open and out like that. And it`s just -- I`ve got two sons of my own, and I wouldn`t want them to be led by a gay person, male or female.

TYRRELL: You`re entitled to your opinion. Just because it`s in the bylaws doesn`t make it right.

It also used to be illegal for women to vote. It also used to be illegal for black and white people to marry. Rosa Parks knew the rules when she refused to give up her seats.

I`m here to tell you just because somebody said it one time doesn`t make it right. It`s not right.

PINSKY: Frank, thank you.

Jennifer --

TYRRELL: I challenge you to meet my children and my family and realize that they are an amazing family. We are an amazing family.

FRANK: I don`t doubt that a bit. I don`t doubt that.

TYRRELL: And regardless of what you believe --

FRANK: I still don`t want someone that`s in the same sex like that trying to teach other children.

PINSKY: And why is that, Frank? What`s the reason?

FRANK: It`s not the way you`re supposed to be. And I --

TYRRELL: Says who?

FRANK: It`s a preference, or how you are, that`s up to you. Everybody is to each their own. I just -- it`s not -- it`s not the way the Boy Scouts was.

TYRRELL: No offense, sir, you`re entitled to your opinion, but I wouldn`t want somebody with a closed mind such as yours to be an influence on my children. My children weren`t raised to discriminate.

FRANK: Don`t get me wrong. I`m not against gay people. Gay people have their own place in life the same way I have my place in life.

PINSKY: You just don`t want them in Boy Scouts, that`s right?

FRANK: I don`t want them teaching our boys going through something like that.

PINSKY: All right.

TYRRELL: You don`t want me to teach your boys how to tie a knot? You think the straight man down the road could teach your son to tie a better knot?

PINSKY: Frank, Jennifer, I`m stepping in the middle of it.

TYRRELL: That`s not it. I want him to look up to that straight man.

PINSKY: Frank, I get. I want to get some more calls --

TYRRELL: I would ask you if you speak to any one of my scouting parents, they all look up to me. All their children look up to me. We were very close and we were a nice scouting family until the Boy Scouts said that --

PINSKY: Hang on. We`ll go to Claudia, is Claudia still there? Or Patty, whichever they`ve got up here.

Patty, is that you? Patty go right ahead. Patty, we`ve got less than a minute. Quick question.

PATTY, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, I`m calling from San Diego County.


PATTY: And we had a lieutenant here in one of the police departments that was -- he was gay and he was leading on the Boy Scouts, and about 10, 15 years ago, they kicked him off. There was a big thing going on around here because of the same situation.

And it`s sad to me because these parents are so narrow minded that they don`t want to allow their children to be, you know, like she said, helping them learn. She isn`t doing anything sexual in front of them. What does it matter?

PINSKY: Yes. Right. Patty, good comment. Jennifer, thank you for that. Zach, thank you so much for ringing in here.

And here`s the deal. It`s all about fear. It`s about fear and knowledge will combat fear.

You can make your own decisions about this. I`m not telling you how to believe, but it really is about fear.

We`ve got some interesting calls coming up -- one you might want to stick around to hear. Be right back after this.


PINSKY: All right. Thanks for joining us tonight. Reminder that we are live, live. We are taking your calls at 1-855-DRDREW5.

And another reminder that I have Octomom calling in here tonight in about 20 minutes or so. She has not been granting any interviews today about this foreclosure issue you`ve been hearing about all day on the news. She`s going to call here tonight. I`ve got some questions for her. We`ll try to straighten things out.

In the meantime, we`ve been speaking to Jennifer Tyrrell. Her first grade Tiger Scout troop loved her, but the Boy Scouts of America told her to pack up and get out. She was not welcome. The reason being, her sexual orientation. She was gay.

Now, Jennifer, a board member resigned over this because he felt strongly you shouldn`t be removed. Did you have reaction to that?

TYRRELL: I did, actually. I was very moved by that. I actually got a chance to read the letter, and I would like to thank him personally. Thank you, Mr. Simms (ph). That means a lot to me.

He`s an Eagle Scout. His father was an Eagle Scout. His grandfather was an Eagle Scout. He served on the board. And he resigned because he says that he doesn`t want his fellow man kind to be treated this way. That`s amazing.

PINSKY: And, Jennifer, I`m sorry, we have a little delay here and I keep jumping on you a little bit. I apologize for that.

But what are people afraid of? What could you possibly --

TYRRELL: I don`t know. Can I just say that you spoke to Robert earlier, Robert Dunn.


TYRRELL: He sent me a text right after all this happened, and he said, I just want to thank you for bringing awareness to my prejudice, and I`m ashamed of the way I used to feel about gay people.


TYRRELL: His wife sent me a text saying he`s a new person. That he`s more loving, he`s more accepting, he`s, you know, his wife sent me that text. So these people that are afraid that I`m going to negatively affect their children, and I said before, if I just change that one mind, that`s worth it.

PINSKY: I think you did change the one mind, honey. You did.

Let`s take another --


PINSKY: It`s OK. That`s cool.

TYRRELL: And apparently 262,000 Americans have signed my petition at, telling the Boy Scouts that we need to include all Americans. The Girl Scouts, the boys and girls club and 4H. They all accept all Americans.

PINSKY: I`ve got less than a minute left. I want to take a quick call from Peyton in Alabama.

Peyton, you have a comment for Jennifer?

PEYTON, CALLER FROM ALABAMA: Yes. So being gay or lesbian is a lifestyle choice. What if a child --

TYRRELL: If you say so. Not for me.

PEYTON: -- has a father who`s an alcoholic. That`s a lifestyle choice.

PINSKY: Hold on. I got to interrupt you, Peyton. No, I don`t know. I treat alcoholics every day. I don`t know of a single alcoholic that would choose to be an alcoholic, my dear. I`m sorry.

They have the disease state. They`re begging for help. It takes years of work for me to get them to stop using. It`s not a choice.

It`s a choice to pick up the drink in the first place, maybe. Once they get the disease -- I -- I mean, the idea that being gay is a choice is bizarre. It`s a bizarre idea.

PEYTON: What I`m saying is that they make certain choices. Their children, their family, they`re exposed to in their home. So despite, you know --


TYRRELL: Love. That`s the choice that we make. We make a choice to love. Our children are loved. They have two moms that love them. They have an amazing support system.

PINSKY: Peyton, finish up. Ten seconds.

PEYTON: What I`m saying is that because -- because your children are exposed to that in your home, should that mean you`re able to expose other people`s children to what goes on in your home?

PINSKY: I got to take a break. I got to go. Jennifer, I`m sorry --

TYRRELL: What am I exposing, Peyton? Do you expose yourself to your children?

PINSKY: I have to go. Jon Lovitz is coming up with me after the break. More calls after this.



PINSKY (voice-over): Coming up, Jon Lovitz takes to Twitter to expose and shame three high school students who allegedly put a swastika in feces on a teen`s doorstep. His actions got the girls expelled. Did the actor/comedian take the law into his own hands? Jon Lovitz is here to answer my questions and yours.

And I`ll take on any issue you got, sex, relationships, drugs. Bring it on.


PINSKY: OK. Got a few reminders for you guys tonight. A, we are live, B, we`re taking your calls at 855-DrDrew-5. C, I do have Jon Lovitz here, and D, I have octomom calling in to straighten out this business about her having her house foreclosed. She`s refused all interviews. I called her tonight and said please come on the show and straighten this out.

What do you got to say about it? She agreed. That will be in about 15 minutes. But tonight, I have a nationally known political figure, Jon Lovitz. I think he was a comedian at one time. But, now, there are new stories out, new story that -- frankly not so funny. He was drawing attention to anti-Semitic graffiti at a friend`s house by using Twitter, and he got some action.

Well, some felt this might have been a hate crime, the police report we obtained said it doesn`t fall into that category. We`re going to find out why from Jon, himself. Thank you for joining me.

JON LOVITZ, ACTOR: Yes. My pleasure.

PINSKY: So, it`s good to know that --

LOVITZ: I mean, doc.

PINSKY: Yes, thank you. That the secret service is now out looking for you.


PINSKY: Did they come and talk to you? Secret service?


PINSKY: Well, you made some threats against the president.

LOVITZ: No, I didn`t make any threat.



PINSKY: I thought you did.


PINSKY: Oh, you called him a name.

LOVITZ: Yes. Because he`s lying.

PINSKY: About taxes?

LOVITZ: About -- yes, saying -- he`s saying that people in a certain tax bracket don`t pay their fair share of taxes. It`s not true. Forty- seven percent of the country doesn`t pay any taxes because they can`t afford it and they have deductions.

PINSKY: Right.

LOVITZ: So, was it, $250,000 or more, you have a 35 percent federal tax, then in California where I live, you have another 11 percent. That`s 46 percent. You have property tax, you have city tax, you have FICA, you have sales tax.

PINSKY: You`re a fat cat, you`re complaining. What are you saying?

LOVITZ: No, I`m not complaining. I`m not complaining about the taxes I pay. What I don`t like is him saying that those people in that category who came from nothing and worked hard and made something of themselves are now, they`re not paying their fair share of taxes. And it`s like the one percent versus the 99 percent.

PINSKY: Got it.

LOVITZ: And it`s like a class warfare --

PINSKY: He`s creating --

LOVITZ: He`s creating a class warfare. Any country where there is no class structure, anybody can go from being broke to being wealthy. And all the friends that I have that do -- that are really -- way beyond me, you know, billionaires, came from nothing.

PINSKY: Yes. And that`s what`s great about this country.

LOVITZ: And almost everybody, you ask, how did you succeed? They said, I didn`t have anything and I had to work really, really hard, and you have to sacrifice everything. You have to have a regular job eight hours a day, then the other eight hours, you`re going to school, pursuing acting, you`re doing all these things.

And I voted for Obama. I`m a democrat. I also said he`s amazing, what he`s achieved in his own life --

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

LOVITZ: -- which it is.


LOVITZ: But then he`s like saying, OK. And now, you know, to hell with people like me and everyone else. And to me --

PINSKY: You voted for him.

LOVITZ: Yes, I did. I was a fan of his. But to me, it`s so obviously transparent that he`s saying this to get votes from the masses.

PINSKY: OK. Hold on a second. I want to switch gears and now go back to this --


PINSKY: Well, speaking of that, this anti-Semitic graffiti. Tell me about that story. We`ve got calls on that.

LOVITZ: Oh, that?

PINSKY: Yes. Tell us about that.

LOVITZ: Well, I was on Facebook, and a friend of mine from the eighth grade, very nice guy, nicest guy in the world, on Facebook he wrote, I woke up this morning, and this is what I found on my front porch, and my mother is a holocaust survivor. And there was swastikas in maple syrup and said Jew.


LOVITZ: And do crap, you know, on his front porch, and he was terrified, because he`s growing up hearing the stories of the holocaust, which, of course, the president of Iran said never happened.


LOVITZ: But anyway, you know, his mother was 60 and decided to get a tattoo, you know?


LOVITZ: So, anyway --

PINSKY: Like so many others did.

LOVITZ: Yes. Well, you know, according to Mel Gibson`s dad, they just walked away. It`s a long hike, but I guess, they were all into hiking back then. Anyway, he sees this and so -- and then he --

PINSKY: We have some video. Let`s show the video, and then, we`ll take some phone calls. Can you, guys, show us the video so the viewers can see what we`re talking about here? Is that going to be on this screen behind me here -- no, here it is. That`s what was -- is that right? That`s what was out in front of your friend`s house.

LOVITZ: Right.

PINSKY: All right. Let`s take some calls. We`ve got Annie in Ohio. We`ve got Annie in Ohio. You`ve got a comment about that?

ANNIE, OHIO: Hi. I support Mr. Lovitz in what he did. I don`t think he did anything wrong. I think the mother that was involved in this case did everything wrong.

PINSKY: I agree with that, don`t you?


ANNIE: Shame on her.


ANNIE: What is she teaching her children?

LOVITZ: Yes. Mother drove them to this house to do this, and they said, well, it was a joke. I go, well then, you know, why did you do it at 1:30 in the morning, you know, when they`re asleep?

ANNIE: Yes. What a wonderful example of motherhood that is.

PINSKY: Annie, do you have a message for that mom? Give her a piece of your mind. How about that?

ANNIE: I do have a message for that mom. She needs to take some parenting classes. She needs to take a good look at why she helped these girls do that. What is it inside her that made her feel like she needed to help these girls commit such a heinous act.

PINSKY: Yes. It`s an act. It`s an incident. You know, it has meaning, and particularly, for this family.

LOVITZ: Well, the reason why it wasn`t classified as a hate crime is because --

PINSKY: Nobody was hurt.

LOVITZ: No, because they said there was no permanent damage.

PINSKY: I see.

LOVITZ: They did it on their car, too. If they left the maple syrup on the car for two hours, it would have damaged the paint, and then, it would have been a hate crime.


LOVITZ: And then, I found out the mother drove them. My friend was - - he was terrified -- these girls were bullying his 14-year-old daughter. And then --

PINSKY: What do you say to people who say --

LOVITZ: By the way, I just have to say, I did not get these girls expelled from school.

PINSKY: Well, you went on the internet.

LOVITZ: It had nothing to do with them getting expelled at all. They got expelled by their principal because they broke the school rules.

PINSKY: OK. What about what people say that you were being bullying of these little girls? What do you say to those girls?

LOVITZ: Well, then, I guess, if standing up to abuse is bullying --

PINSKY: Then, so be it.

LOVITZ: That`s just an abusive comment back.

PINSKY: OK. Let`s go to Laurie on Facebook who says, "I say way to go Jon Lovitz. No room for racism." Didn`t we have a call also, guys? Did you have a call for me set up? Fatima, there you are. Fatima in California, go right ahead.

FATIMA, CALIFORNIA: Hi. It was this regarding Mr. Lovitz`s little rants earlier --

PINSKY: About taxes.

FATIMA: Yes. And what I was saying, it`s not like our president is not like some of those in other countries, but I still feel that regardless of your political background or views, that there still should be some sort of respect for our president. And he shouldn`t be disrespected as such.

PINSKY: I don`t think you`re disrespecting him. Maybe the words you used people would take issue with. Is that --

LOVITZ: Well, I was on stage in my comedy club. If you`ve ever been to a comedy show, you know, people say anything. And I was laughing. So, yes, I cussed at him, you know? I didn`t cuss at him, but yes, I used colorful words, because that`s how I felt. By the way, I should point out I didn`t invent cussing.

PINSKY: You didn`t?

LOVITZ: Oh, no, no.

PINSKY: I thought for sure that was --

LOVITZ: No, I think -- no.


LOVITZ: I respect him, but I don`t respect him for lying.

PINSKY: But Jon, Michael Richards said horrible stuff in a comedy club and that, you know, didn`t go so well.

LOVITZ: That`s right.

PINSKY: I mean, do you --

LOVITZ: I know all about that. Yes, but he was -- he lost his temper. There was no humor at all forever what he said.


LOVITZ: And if you look at it, there`s a video out now of it.


LOVITZ: And you can see, you know, certain articles say, oh, Kevin Smith was uncomfortable. The audience was laughing nervously. If you watch, Kevin Smith is laughing his head off. The audience is laughing. I was saying it in a humorous way.

PINSKY: OK. Sandy from Alabama. Go right ahead, Sandy.

SANDY, ALABAMA: Hi. How are you all?


PINSKY: You`re not a world political figure? You are now.

LOVITZ: No, but the internet, these people make this stuff go viral. I don`t.

PINSKY: I know. I`m sorry, Sandy, go right ahead. Alabama.

SANDY: It`s all right. Hi. First of all, I want to give my support, Mr. Lovitz, to you for everything that you`ve been through and everything that you`ve done.

LOVITZ: Thank you.

SANDY: I agree with you 100 percent that this was definitely a hate crime. And like Annie said, shame on the mother. Anything that incites any kind of deep sense of torture, especially something that a culture has gone through, in my opinion, is a definite hate crime.

PINSKY: Yes. Thank you, Sandy. And I can imagine, if this had happened 20 years ago, it might have caused -- I mean, I remember growing up when there was still a lot of holocaust survivors around and having friends whose parents were holocaust survivor. And even the thought of this kind of thing was so deeply -- they could almost not talk about it back in those days, 20, 30, 40 years ago.

LOVITZ: Oh, I remember I had a baby-sitter once, I was 11, and she was in Germany. I said, what happened? And she started crying.


LOVITZ: She`s like I can`t tell you. I didn`t know. Of course, I`m glad she did. She couldn`t tell me. It was too horrifying. It was, you know, mass murder. But, you know, what happened, my friend was so terrified and to do anything -- he was worried about his daughter. And I said, you`ve got to do something. You`ve got to nip it in the bud.

This is how this starts. And this is exactly how it started in Germany. If you read -- there`s a book by Elie Wiesel who`s a holocaust survivor. He wrote a book called "Night." And he talks about, he lived in this village during, you know, World Ward II, and they had a village idiot (ph). And this guy was, you know, considered the village idiot. He`s a moron.

He disappears for four days. He comes back. He`s screaming, they`re killing all the Jews. They`re putting them on trains, and they`re killing all the Jews. And nobody believed him because he was the village idiot. And I thought, this is exactly how this anti-Semitism starts and if you let this go, it sends a signal that it`s OK, and then, it becomes more and more.

And this is how it starts. So, I felt, you know what, you got to nip it in the bud. You know, Jews don`t put up with this stuff anymore. It`s unacceptable. You have to fight back from the beginning.

PINSKY: And I`ve also -- I`ve been talking a lot on this show about - -

LOVITZ: Should be unacceptable to anything.

PINSKY: Well, that`s what I`m saying. The Trayvon Martin incident --

LOVITZ: That`s what I just said. Now, you`re just repeating it.

PINSKY: I am just repeating it. You`re smarter and funnier than I am.

LOVITZ: Well, all right. But, you know, I wouldn`t -- yes, well, I wouldn`t normally go, no, you`re crazy, but you`re a doctor, so, yes. You got to consider the source. You`re a doctor.

PINSKY: I know what I`m talking about is what you`re saying when I call you smarter and funnier.


PINSKY: That`s good. Just got good judgment, basically.

LOVITZ: How do we know you`re a doctor? Well, where`s your --

PINSKY: My license is upstairs.

LOVITZ: Well, how do we know it`s real?

PINSKY: We don`t know nothing in this world. How do we know the reality exists?

LOVITZ: Still have people saying to me, Obama, how do you know he`s really born in, you know, Hawaii? I go, well, it`s in the newspaper. What, do they have a time machine? It`s ridiculous. How do you know he`s even born? He could be a robot.

PINSKY: How do you know we`re here? How do I know you`re talking to me? How do you guys know you`re watching us? I`m just saying.

LOVITZ: We`re all dust (ph).

PINSKY: Thank you for joining me, Jon. I appreciate it.

LOVITZ: Thank you, doctor. Thank you for not interrupting me.


LOVITZ: So funny.

PINSKY: Because you`re funny and you`re smart.

LOVITZ: Thank you --


LOVITZ: -- with a point.

PINSKY: And you`re now a national political figure. And what I just wanted to finish with is that Trayvon Martin is something that I`ve been talking about a lot here. My hope is it raises awareness --

LOVITZ: Yes. That`s a tragedy.

PINSKY: -- so these things don`t happen again. And this is another one of those issues we have to talk about, we have to address it. We can`t pretend it`s not happening. We can`t just dismiss it as, oh well, these kids having fun. These are real things. They affect how our kids grow up, what they think, what they feel.

LOVITZ: By the way, the president is coming to town next week to get (ph) thousands and thousands of dollars --

PINSKY: You`re going to be there?

LOVITZ: -- from the people that don`t pay their fair share of taxes.

PINSKY: Excellent. You`ll be there. (INAUDIBLE)

We`re going to be talking to Octomom in a few minutes, Nadya Suleman. She filed for bankruptcy today. This story has been all over the news. I have not yet spoken to her. I want her to --

LOVITZ: I`m dating (ph) her now.

PINSKY: -- Jon Lovitz is her new boyfriend. We`ll hear more about that. Stay with us.


PINSKY: All right. Finally got Jon Lovitz out of here. Just had to kind of push him off. We are live tonight, phone number, 855-DrDrew-5. That is 373-7395, area code 855. I always have to look at it. Sorry about that. Again, we`re live, and welcome back.

You guys had a lot to say on our Facebook page about Nadya Suleman filing for bankruptcy today. Now, my understanding is Nadya is on the line. Is that correct? Can somebody tell me, do we have her yet? OK. I want to go right straight to Nadya. Nadya Suleman is Octomom. Their story`s been in the news all day long.

And, the allegations are is that her home is being foreclosed. I talked to her last week. We brought this up. She said, no, that`s not happening. I just heard that she`s been -- like "Nancy Grace" tonight, I`m hearing that she just dropped off the line. So, we have to get her back. In the meantime, we`ve got robin in Connecticut who has a question for her. Robin, go right ahead.


PINSKY: Hi, Robin.

ROBIN: When I was asked to call you, I think it`s because people know that I am a mother of quadruplets. They`re 24 years old.

PINSKY: God bless you. I have triplets. God bless you.

ROBIN: And God bless you, too.

PINSKY: There`s a place saved in heaven for multiple moms.

ROBIN: Yes. Isn`t that a good thing? It was a gift and it was a joy, and because my kids were in vitro, I don`t want anything sanctioned against in vitro. It`s a wonderful --

PINSKY: I was going to say, my kids were a product of fertility campaign, too. We`re both sinners (ph). Oh, well, there we go.

ROBIN: Right. God forgive me. Anyway, I think that in any case, I had four eggs, the fact they all took and I`ve got four beautiful wonderful --

PINSKY: And let me remind people, as a physician, I can tell you that back in those days, my triplets are almost 20, yours are 24. Back in those days, they put four or five in, because that had the highest probability of getting one or two.

ROBIN: Absolutely.

PINSKY: But occasionally, lucky people got three or four like we all did.

ROBIN: Absolutely.

PINSKY: So, what did you want to say about this?

ROBIN: What I want to say about this, this is an aside, one of my quads has autism. And when Nadya Suleman`s story came out, it was reported and substantiated that she does have one autistic child from the first six.

PINSKY: From the first six. I met the child. He`s severely autistic.

ROBIN: OK. That just blew me away.


ROBIN: I thought that choice to do another in vitro attempt is kind of reckless.

PINSKY: OK. I thought so, too, as a triplet parent. I couldn`t imagine with six kids and one autistic you`d want have to have more. But, Robin, I got to interrupt you now because I`ve got Nadya back. Nadya, are you there?

VOICE OF NADYA SULEMAN, OCTOMOM: Share. Drink your milk, please. Hi, how are you?

PINSKY: I`m good. Are you telling me to drink my milk, Nadya?

SULEMAN: I am -- oh, my God. I`m doing so many things at the same time. Chicken enchiladas.

PINSKY: I know. I`ve been to your house, and I`ve seen what you have to do.

SULEMAN: I`m sorry. I don`t know what the heck`s going on. I`m doing --

PINSKY: OK. Nadya.

SULEMAN: Yes, I`m here.

PINSKY: Focus, honey. Here we go.

SULEMAN: I am now acting as a human antenna in the backyard because my phone is really bad. I`m sorry.

PINSKY: Thank you. Thank you. OK. Here`s the deal. You`ve been in the news all day today, right? Let`s set the record straight.

SULEMAN: I`m not watching anything.


SULEMAN: I have no idea.

PINSKY: OK. Your story`s been in the news. Your story`s been in the news.

SULEMAN: All I know is that there`s lots of different channels in the front of my house camping out. That`s all I know. I`m done. I don`t care.

PINSKY: OK. Honey, Nadya, have you been foreclosed? Did that happen?

SULEMAN: OK. Foreclosure has been an ongoing thing for several months. And, this is the point, we literally -- I don`t think you can get farther deeper down into the rock bottom that we are at this point. They are healthy, they are safe. They don`t feel it, I do. All the weight`s on my shoulders --

PINSKY: OK. Stop. Stop one second. I know. Listen, Nadya, you know how I worry about your situation. This is what I`m talking about. This is I was worried last week. If you get foreclosed and kicked out, where are you going to go?

SULEMAN: Number one, we`re not going to get kicked out.

PINSKY: OK. Should that happen --

SULEMAN: Listen, listen. Let me talk, let me speak. Chapter 7, I don`t even know really the details of what that is. But I have a family friend who`s a real estate attorney, and he is helping as much as he can to -- because we cannot afford our home at this present time. So, he is helping us right now.

And, the actual official filing is not going to take -- has not taken place yet. This is more of a temporary -- I forgot what the name is -- I wrote it down, something about a trustee.

PINSKY: OK, but --

SULEMAN: It`s about delaying the foreclosure. Right.

PINSKY: OK. So, you`ve taken a legal maneuver that should delay the foreclosure.


SULEMAN: It`s called delaying trustee sale. Temporary. That`s what it says. I wrote it down.

PINSKY: OK. I`ve got to go to another break, Nadya. So, I want you to hold on on one second with me, because I want to talk about what -- you don`t have to tell me specifics, but you told me last time that you have a solution, you`re going to be able to pay this all off. I want to sort of get to that and what your plan is. More with Nadya.


PINSKY: Stay there, honey. More with Nadya, Octomom, after the break. Stay with us.


PINSKY: All right. Welcome back. We remain live, and I`m talking to Nadya Suleman, Octomom. Now, Nadya, are you there?

SULEMAN: Mommy`s outside real quick for one minute. I`m so sorry. I`m going outside.

PINSKY: I`m only going to keep you --

SULEMAN: (INAUDIBLE) because my phone is so bad. I had to go climb on their -- OK. I`m good.

PINSKY: Nadya, Nadya --

SULEMAN: Yes, I am here.

PINSKY: I`m going to keep you for three more minutes then you can go back to the kids. My question is the following. Number one, let`s say the foreclosure actually happens. Would you go move in with your dad? Is that what would happen?

SULEMAN: Oh, God have mercy. No. My dad is hanging out with my mother. My dream in the future is to buy a home for my father.


SULEMAN: I have so much compassion for him. God, no, he doesn`t have his own place. No.


SULEMAN: I do have beneficiaries. Listen to me, I am not -- I`m very aware. Forbid anything happened to me, if I ever traveled or whatever, I do have my closest friend and her husband who are beneficiaries, and they will be taking all 14. God forbid anything happens to me.


SULEMAN: Worst case scenario, please don`t worry. Listen to me, if God forbid something happened, we won`t be homeless. They have a huge home in Irvine. We will end up staying with them temporarily until we find.


SULEMAN: We`ll be OK.


SULEMAN: We`ll be OK.

PINSKY: OK. And let me straighten one more thing out. Did you file bankruptcy? Did that happen?

SULEMAN: Yes. Yes. I think it`s called chapter 7. I, to be quite honest, I can`t even tell you details because I`m oblivious to this kind of stuff. This is not what I`m aware of. I`m not knowledgeable in this domain. So, my real estate -- my family friend, real estate attorney, he helped me.



PINSKY: OK. My other -- my last question is this. You felt confident that you were going to be able to work your way out of this hole. Do you still feel that way? And if so, can you give us a sense of how that`s going to happen?

SULEMAN: I can`t. I just can`t. I just can`t.

PINSKY: OK. That`s fine. But you still have the confidence? Do you still have the confidence that you`re going to get out of this?

SULEMAN: You know, I have a good rapport with you. I trust you. You trust me.


SULEMAN: Trust me that my life revolves around my children.

PINSKY: I know that.

SULEMAN: And I would die before anything happens to my kids.

PINSKY: I don`t want that to happen. I know. They don`t want you to die. Nobody wants you to die.

SULEMAN: I am so tired.

PINSKY: I know.

SULEMAN: All them are fully potty trained, all at stairs now, sleeping upstairs. I`m on the floor. And I put them in the bedroom for me. I put them, their well-being before mine. So, these kids are all I live for. If I didn`t have them, I`d be in a one-bedroom apartment, you know? That doesn`t matter. It`s all about them.

PINSKY: OK. I totally understand that, but let me just -- again, I`ve got about 30 seconds. You feel confident you`re going to earn your way out of this?

SULEMAN: We are going to.


SULEMAN: I absolutely --

PINSKY: You`re going to earn your way out.

SULEMAN: -- comes to that point -- yes, yes, we`re going to do it. We`re going to make it.


SULEMAN: We`re going to make it. I`m going to prove to you. We`re going to make it.

PINSKY: OK. Nadya, listen, thank you for joining me tonight. I appreciate it. We wish you the best.

SULEMAN: No, Dr. Drew, I thank you for being on our team and our side, and I will be forever grateful to you. Thank you so much.

PINSKY: OK. And I think you heard my viewers. A lot of my viewers are angry, a lot of viewers are on your side, too. I think you heard that when you were here last --

SULEMAN: Everybody is entitled to their own opinions. I thank them, actually, for giving any ounce of energy to our story. That`s all.

PINSKY: There you go. Nadya, I got to go. Thank you. Get back to those kids. Go back to those kids. I know you`ve got to feed them and get them upstairs, pack them in bed. Thank you for joining me tonight. Thank you all for watching.

It`s been a very interesting evening. We`ll continue to take your calls all week. See you next time.