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PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
Jackson Brothers Talk Childhood, Brother Michael and Upcoming Tour
Aired May 10, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST, PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT: Tonight, rolling out the big guns, President Obama's star studded $15 million fundraiser at George Clooney's house. Will this Hollywood handout, though (INAUDIBLE) price in November.
Plus, a very outspoken Penn Jillette. He's against marriage, any marriage, for anybody. Tonight, he'll tell me why.
Also, exclusive new information about George Zimmerman. Our investigation on the photo that could change the way you think about the Trayvon Martin case.
And a primetime worldwide exclusive with the Jacksons, Jackie, Jermaine, Marlon and Tito back together again on stage after nearly 30 years. And for the first time since their brother Michael's tragic death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TITO JACKSON: I think our first challenge getting back to the stage would be something in the celebration of 40 years of show business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: This is Piers Morgan Tonight.
Good evening. We begin tonight as we do every night with what we think is the big story. And tonight it's of course, the high-stakes, high glamour Hollywood fundraiser for President Obama's re-election campaign happening right now.
It's the biggest ever fundraiser for a single candidate and not so intimate dinner at the Los Angeles home of George Clooney for 150 a- liters including Barbara Streisand, Robert Downey Jr., Toby McGuire and many more.
Guests handed over an estimated $6 million to take part and a ticket raffle for the general public raised another $9 million according to the campaign insiders.
So a very lucrative West Coast trip for the president and joining me now to discuss this in more detail is CNN's Entertainment Correspondent, Michelle Turner who is there being kept at bay, I hear, Michelle. So you can't get near the action. What do you think is going on there? MICHELLE TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, we know the president's going to be landing at Los Angeles International Airport in about 15 minutes, Pierson.
It's been said that he's going to then helicopter over as close as he can get to George Clooney's home and then take the presidential motorcade through the streets in the San Fernando Valley.
So that's going to be a really interesting sight. I know some people are lined up on the streets hoping to get a little glance of the presidential motorcade.
We know the event should start about 8 o'clock. It's supposed to last a couple hours and it should be pretty lavish. Lots of Hollywood a- listers. All of that good Hollywood good fundraising stuff going on tonight.
MORGAN: What I -- what I love about it -- and I know -- I mean the details haven't been fully confirmed but it would appear that of the $9 million raised from the public, this was people paying $3 each to enter a raffle and the prize is that two of them would end up sitting at the top table with the President of the United States and George Clooney all for a $3 stake. I mean that's a pretty amazing price.
TURNER: It definitely is and, you know this -- that was like the most amazing thing about this fundraiser. They put kind of this raffle out there and they did raise $9 million from people going online and donating at least $3. They could kind of donate anything they wanted but $3 was the minimum.
They did release the names of the winners who won and I do have them. I just brought them with me. The first lady's name is Beth Topinka. She is a Science teacher from New Jersey.
The other winner is Karen Belcher. She is a Communications Specialist from St. Augustine, Florida. They got all-expense paid trips to this fundraiser with George Clooney and the president tonight.
TURNER: They get to bring their husbands as their dates. It's going to be a good time for them, I'm sure.
MORGAN: It certainly is. Michelle, for now, thank you very much.
MORGAN: Celebrities, politics and big bucks, it's all fodder for my next guest, political satirist, P.J. O'Rourke. P.J. what do you make of all this; $15 million pouring in, dinner at George Clooney's house, the president helicoptering in, members of the public at the top table? Is it all just smart political fundraising or is it tipping over the edge a little bit?
P.J. O'ROURKE, POLITICAL SATIRIST, AUTHOR: No, all political fundraising is just a tax on stupidity and perhaps there's a little more stupidity around than usual.
But I am interested that the -- this particular sort of fundraising activity is very celebrity-centered and that got me thinking about why celebrities are almost always Liberals. Not everyone but almost always.
And I finally -- I decided it had nothing to do with their conscious thought process. It had nothing to do with right or wrong let alone with right or left.
It's just that the Liberal message is that -- the liberal message flatters the good intentions of the audience and it promises a happy ending while the Conservative message is all grumpy and it kind of reminds people that they're selfish and they live in a selfish world and that things just don't always turn out as well as we'd hoped.
MORGAN: Is there a danger for President Obama in so aligning himself to the Hollywood community when unlike Bill Clinton, for example, he hasn't been to Hollywood very often. But this is such a huge event. It's raised so much money, the greatest fundraiser in history.
But it just identifies him now as the Hollywood candidate, if you like. Is that a danger for him come November? Will all (INAUDIBLE) public rebel against that?
O'ROURKE: I think it's a little bit of a danger because we've become -- no offense to your fine, upstanding self, but we've come very -- we've become very used to a very short celebrity half-life.
I mean they just flicker across the -- you know one day it's Sponge Bob, the next day it's Dora the Explorer and then they're forgotten and gone. And, you know politician, that's a long-haul job. I believe he'd like his show to be renewed for another four years.
MORGAN: What I -- what I thought was a rather cynical view, (INAUDIBLE) was, well, you know why President Obama decided to endorse gay marriage.
Is that he was walking into a room where it would be absolutely full of people who if he hadn't, after Joe Biden had, would have given him ear ache for the next three hours tonight.
O'ROURKE: I'm sure. But you know, I'm very Conservative myself but my opinion of gay marriage has always been, you know why should they get off scot-free, you know?
O'ROURKE: All the things we know -- we know married people turn into Republicans.
MORGAN: We're actually watching, P.J., as you speak, we're watching Marine One. OK, these are live pictures.
Breaking news, the president landing in Hollywood in Marine One and he will then be escorted by a cavalcade that will mean I spend all night in a traffic jam later, to George Clooney's home where two Americans who entered a $3 raffle will have dinner at the top table with the president and George Clooney.
I mean, P.J. O'Rourke, it is a -- it is a great stunt in terms of PR, isn't it, to have $9 million coming in from a $3 raffle?
O'ROURKE: Oh, it's absolutely brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. And the upside of the president associating himself with famous people is that now in the Internet age and the blogging age and so on, we're all convinced that we're famous.
And so instead of being sort of above the general public, he has become a part of the general public. He, too, has his own reality show.
MORGAN: If you were Mitt Romney and you're watching these scenes tonight, are you feeling it's a bad night at the office or are you thinking this could be an opportunity to distance himself from this whole celebrity circus, if you like, focus on perhaps non-celebrity fundraising?
O'ROURKE: Well, I think I can read Mitt's mind on this. I think this is an opportunity for Mitt to show his gravitas and he will probably get together this evening with some anthropologists and economists and some math wizards at the -- at the, you know the Hedge Fund Club or something.
But I mean I have a feeling Mitt's the kind of guy who looks down upon this a little bit, which isn't giving him -- and you know, one more case of him being Bob Dole without the sparkle.
MORGAN: On that bombshell, P.J., as always a great pleasure. Thanks for coming on.
O'ROURKE: Thank you.
MORGAN: P.J. O'Rourke. If there is one man that you can count on not to tell the party line is the always outspoken comedian and best- selling author, Penn Jillette, who rejoins us now and welcome back.
PENN JILLETTE, AUTHOR: Good to see you.
MORGAN: Would you pay $40,000 to be a celebrity guest at this dinner tonight?
JILLETTE: I don't -- I don't think I'd even -- I'd even go for free not because of anything against Obama or anybody there but those kinds of fundraising dinners are -- you've been to them. They're very uncomfortable. And you're sitting next to someone that you don't want to talk to and it's not -- I don't think it's that good.
I'm also a little bit freaked that George Clooney doesn't have a heliport right at his house. I mean aren't we supposed to have celebrities that have heliports? What is this, he's got to drive after he gets there? Shouldn't he land right on like -- wasn't George Clooney Batman. Doesn't he have like a Bat port up on the top there? I think it's kind of piker to have to drive the final way.
MORGAN: What do you feel about the celebrification of fundraising in this way?
JILLETTE: Well, hasn't it always been -- I mean hasn't it always been that you go to -- you go to where the money is? And they, you know these are the -- one percenters. They have the coin.
MORGAN: Do you feel -- do you feel irritated that the American presidency is kind of up to grabs for the -- for the most money? I mean Romney's already blown away all his opposition on the Republican side ...
JILLETTE: But we found out ...
MORGAN: ...by just having more money.
JILLETTE: We found out that's not true, though. We've had a lot of cases where people have tried to buy elections at, you know the state level and it just hasn't worked. I think that the one big surprise is that the American people are way smarter than the pundits think they are.
I think when it all comes down, money is important but it's not everything. I think if you -- I think that the American people do care about ideas as crazy as that sounds.
MORGAN: Now let's talk gay marriage.
MORGAN: What is ...
JILLETTE: This is so sudden but OK.
MORGAN: (INAUDIBLE) be getting on so well, you know.
JILLETTE: You are so cute. OK.
MORGAN: Now, what do you really think of it?
JILLETTE: Well, you know I don't think that marriage is the government's business. I don't know why sex and commitment and love is part of the government's job.
MORGAN: But shouldn't it be the government's business when a section of the community are excluded?
JILLETTE: Well, absolutely. Once you've had ...
MORGAN: (INAUDIBLE) the point.
JILLETTE: Once you've had straight marriage, you have to have gay marriage. And the slippery slope they talk about like, oh, what if they want to do polygamy and they want to do this? I think that's all terrific. I'm in favor of the slippery slope.
I think love is a good thing and commitment is a good thing and people should be able to make any sort of life commitment to anybody they want but I'm not sure that the government has to overview that and make that decision.
Like many things, we only get in trouble when we try to all agree on things for everybody. If you went with more freedom and just said you can make any contract you want, you know for raising children it's very important.
The reason that I'm married is because I could not find a lawyer who would tell me that not being married, if something tragic happened to my wife, I would absolutely get custody of my children. Almost sure I would but it is possible for one of her relatives ...
MORGAN: Yes, that is.
JILLETTE: And so I was kind of forced into marriage and, you know I would have loved my wife and made commitments but I wouldn't have made that commitment. It just seems a little creepy to tell the government who you're having sex with.
MORGAN: Now, obviously, here you have a president who stuck his hand up yesterday and made a big move in favor of gay marriage. In our country we have a royal family.
And it's a big year for the Royals. We've got the Diamond Jubilee of the Queen, one of the great, longest serving monarchs of all time.
But I want to -- but I want to talk to you. Oh hang on, I'm just being told we haven't got this, which we're going to talk about. So we're going to come back to the presidency.
Tell me about what all this gay marriage debate does to the real debate in America, which is about the economy.
Because a lot of people say to me, it's all very well President Obama saying all this now and creating a huge furor, which will last a week or two. It doesn't help people who are out of work.
JILLETTE: Well, except that you can say something about gay marriage and I'm not sure anyone has any idea how to fix the economy. I mean it is something he can actually do, I mean ...
MORGAN: I've got this clip.
MORGAN: So I'm going to stop you. It got me -- because I wanted to play you this because it made me laugh so much.
So we have a royal family and Prince Charles today, inexplicably, for reasons -- he's obviously the next king of England, for reasons nobody can be quite sure of, read the weather on national television in Great Britain. And I want to play you a clip of this. It is quite startling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE CHARLES, PRINCE OF WALES: As we head towards the end of the week. This afternoon it will be cold, wet and windy across most of Scotland. We're under the influence of low pressure and this weather front pushes towards (INAUDIBLE) bringing cloud and outbreaks of rain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: I have no idea what he is doing. He is the future King of England and actually he turned out to be a very good weatherman. He was -- he was sort of soothingly regal.
He understood that when it was bad weather up North, he had to be more somber. When it was a bit sunnier down South, he was more cheerful. He cracked a few self-deprecating jokes.
JILLETTE: He did okay with the blue screen. (INAUDIBLE). That's not easy, the first time out, blue screen. Unless all the palace is blue screen.
MORGAN: Do you like this idea of world leaders reading the weather?
JILLETTE: I don't have (INAUDIBLE). I think that should be exactly what we should do that would solve everything. I think Obama and Romney should each do the weather.
MORGAN: I think ...
JILLETTE: As long as you let Ron Paul and Gary Johnson try it too. As long as you give them a chance. You won't let them into the debates but please let him at least read the weather. I think it would be great.
MORGAN: As always come back soon.
JILLETTE: (INAUDIBLE), poor George.
MORGAN: Coming up, exclusive information on George Zimmerman. It may change your mind about what you think about the man who's charged with shooting Trayvon Martin.
MORGAN: I want to turn to our other big story, a major development in the case that shocked America. We have an exclusive photograph that may change the way that some people look at George Zimmerman, the man who's charged with second degree murder and the killing of Trayvon Martin. Joining me now is Martin Nejame. (INAUDIBLE).
(INAUDIBLE) Tiger Woods, the grand parents of Caylee Anthony. Martin, thank you for joining me. Tell me about this photograph that you have unearthed here and tell me about its significance. MARTIN NEJAME, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we've been simply working on the matter. As a CNN Legal Analyst, we've had some issues surface and we've been investigating them, looking at them, questioning them.
When I first heard about this tragedy I jumped to the conclusion that I think many did, that there was some racial aspect to this shooting, that Trayvon Martin was shot and killed by George Zimmerman in part, based upon bigotry and racial profiling. And I just presumed that from all the press reports that came out and from what I'd heard.
Well, as I started getting into a role as an analyst and such, I started asking questions. I've been a defense lawyer for over 30 years and have come to realize that much of what you hear is simply not factual.
So we've got the picture there and you can see, I had a family member give it to a friend who gave it to me and we gave it to you earlier today. And as you see, they are -- the man in the middle is apparently George Zimmerman's great grandfather. The woman above him is, in fact, his grandmother who is half black and the little child in the gentleman's lap is his mother.
So we see that he really has significant multiracial, multicultural roots. And as I've come to realize and find out from my investigation, he was raised in a multicultural, integrated family, in large part, by his grandmother who's half black.
And I made the analogy and it seems appropriate that if President Obama has indicated that if his son would have looked like Trayvon Martin, than most respectfully, if you look at these pictures, his grandparents and great grandparents would have looked a lot like George Zimmerman's grandparents and great grandparents.
So it seems to me in light of this and other things that we found out about him mentoring African-American children quietly with nobody knowing about it for a couple of years, driving from Orlando to -- excuse me, Sanford to Orlando regularly and then talking to people that know him, I have changed my position.
People can come up with whatever conclusions they want. But from looking at the facts, looking at the evidence, I don't think there's a racial motive in this. Now, we have NRA issues. We have 'stand your ground' issues.
We have all sorts of other significant issues. Self-defense or not self-defense. We'll get to those at a later time. But race, was that a factor in this shooting? From what I see, from what I have now learned, I don't think so.
MORGAN: I mean obviously, you know a cynic will say, look, this is obviously going to be helpful to Zimmerman's case but it may change nothing.
It may well be that George Zimmerman may have had a great grandfather who, apparently from that picture, I think you'll believe (INAUDIBLE), he was African-American -- sorry, of African descent but of course, that doesn't change the fact that George Zimmerman himself may have been a racist or may have been racially profiling Trayvon Martin.
It's just -- what it is, is a fascinating image to emerge of Zimmerman 's family, isn't it? That's what we can say for certain.
MORGAN: What we -- what we don't know is what George Zimmerman's motives may have been.
NEJAME: Well, in talking to, you know friends and people that know him, I'm hearing a story that he doesn't have a prejudice bone in him. I've heard that only from people. And you're exactly right.
Of course, you can -- you know it makes me sick. People say, well, I have black friends or gay friends. But we all know that people can have white friends, black friends, gay friends and be bigoted. That's not where we're going.
What I'm hearing here with, you know the people that I've been investigating this with, I'm hearing a story that's completely different. That there was not a racial motive here. that he was raised by a grandmother who was half black and in an integrated family. That there were people in the family of different ethnicities and it was multicultural and that this is not a factor in this.
So we'll find out and one other thing. I think that it's horrendous what NBC did. I'll just state it from what I understand, by chopping up a tape initially and then making it sound like the first call suggested that there was a black person that he was watching.
When you listen to the 911 tape and you examine the wording, it seems to be anything but.
MORGAN: Yes, Martin, let me -- let me just turn quickly because you got new information too about the social media aspect of the defense for George Zimmerman. Tell me about that.
NEJAME: Well, I think that, you know that's a sign of the times. You know, Piers, you have justice for Trayvon Martin on one hand and GZ defense fund on the other. And it's a lot of money to go ahead and fund these matters.
So I think if people want to spend their money to assist one side or the other to find justice, I think that's appropriate. There's been a lot of injustice in this case. I took a real hard hit against the Sanford Police Department because I thought that Chief Bill Lee had swept this.
It turns out, it was the State's Attorney's office who said no charges to be brought, not the police department. A lot more to come on this.
MORGAN: There certainly is, Martin. Thank you so much. It's been a fascinating discovery, that photograph. It will spark, I'm sure a lot more debate about what has already been a hotly debated case. And please come back when you have more developments.
NEJAME: Thank you, Piers.
MORGAN: When we come back, my primetime exclusive interview with the Jacksons, together again and performing on stage after nearly three decades.
MORGAN: The Jackson 5 recording I Want You Back. It was their first release on Motown. After they left Motown, they became the Jackson's. Now they're going on tour for the first time in almost three decades and paying tribute to their brother, Michael.
Joining me now for a primetime exclusive, Tito, Jackie, Marlon, and Jermaine Jackson. It's their first interview together since Michael's death.
Welcome to you all.
JERMAINE JACKSON: Thank you.
MORGAN: It's fantastic to see you.
JE. JACKSON: It's great to see you.
MORGAN: It's a real thrill. You know I grew up with your music. You know, I mean the moment I hear that I want to get up and start but I won't because no one wants to see that.
But it's also -- it's a bittersweet moment because seeing the four of you together without Michael, you know for everyone that loved all you guys, a very bittersweet moment but for you in particular, this was your brother. How does it feel for you going back on tour, on the road and Michael's no longer here?
JE. JACKSON: Well, we miss him. We're excited to keep the legacy going, the music going. But we miss him so much. But it's something that he would want us to do is to keep it going.
And I guess the challenge, right, guys, was trying to decide what music we were going to do. That was the biggest challenge.
JACKIE JACKSON: That's what the fans wanted us to tour. You know after getting so many e-mails from the fans around the world. I think we owe it to them as well to go out there and perform for our fans. They wanted to -- they want to sing the songs with us and entertain, so ...
MARLON JACKSON: I think with the brothers and each one of us might have, you know our own reason of why -- how we feel on stage without having our brother up there. Because so many years we've always performed and he was right there.
So for me, you know when I'm on stage, I think -- I think about well, Michael used to be right here and now he's no longer but in spirit he will be there with us.
MORGAN: And Tito, how do you feel?
T. JACKSON: Well, I agree with Marlon with what he was saying. What's beautiful about this tour is that we're going to be doing some of the venues that we played prior to Motown like Apollo theatre.
JA. JACKSON: Oh, we're excited about that.
MORGAN: In New York.
JE. JACKSON: We started there.
T. JACKSON: So many shows with Michael prior to I Want You Back made me see so.
JA. JACKSON: Six shows a day, six shows a day.
T. JACKSON: Yes, we know -- we know he'll be there with us.
MORGAN: Six shows a day?
JA. JACKSON: Six shows a day.
MORGAN: Is that right?
JE. JACKSON: Yes.
M. JACKSON: (INAUDIBLE) trying to make it, yes.
MORGAN: Well, tell me this. I mean, we'll come back to Michael a little later but when you think of the Jacksons -- I suppose the impression that everybody has is that you guys never really had a childhood.
This thing exploded when you were young and that you've all in some way been damaged by that fact that you never had the chance to be normal. And yet, I've only just met three of you now, I've met Jermaine before. You seem remarkably undamaged on the outside.
You seem like happy guys.
JA. JACKSON: (INAUDIBLE).
MORGAN: I'm not looking (INAUDIBLE) at people and thinking you guys are damaged. So what is the truth about being a Jackson.
M. JACKSON: Well, what is abnormal? See what is abnormal?
MORGAN: Well, that's a very good point.
T. JACKSON: You know, my theory on all of that is that I've always said that I think my father prepared us for manhood. You're only a child up to 18 but you have the rest of your life to be a man. And he prepared us to be men for that extra ...
MORGAN: Well, he's had a tough rap.
T. JACKSON: ... 40 or 50 years.
T. JACKSON: You know we -- we're men.
MORGAN: Has he had too hard a rap, your father? I mean I've interviewed Jermaine. I've interviewed Latoya, Janet.
T. JACKSON: I think so. I feel so, for sure. Absolutely.
MORGAN: Yes, because I can tell you now, I've done an interview with your mother, which is airing on Monday, which is an extraordinary interview.
M. JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: She's an extraordinary woman but of the many things she said, which I found extraordinary it was her defense of her husband, your father, which I found one of the most moving. She was like, when you guys grew up, where you grew up, you had a choice as parents. You let your kids run riot, go out on the streets and get into trouble, and end up maybe getting shot or jailed or whatever it may be, or you got a grip of your children and you disciplined them and you gave them another life.
JA. JACKSON: Gave us chores to do. Yeah.
MORGAN: How do you honestly feel? Do you feel your father went too far on occasion? Or do you now -- now that you are older and you have had kids, some of you yourselves, do you get it?
JA. JACKSON: I get it totally. When you are a kid, sometimes you feel your father has gone too far, because you are a kid. But now when you look back, he's done a wonderful job. Look where we are.
M. JACKSON: I think when you have so many kids in the family. I mean we were -- have -- what was it, 11 of us in the home in Gary, Indiana. So somewhere along the way, you have to have a grip on the family. And he saw something in -- let me rephrase that. I'm going to put it, my mom saw something in her kids that my father did not see, which was they have some type of talent.
After convincing him over a few months that their ids do have talent, and once she did that and convinced them, then it was on for us.
MORGAN: When you say that -- as you sit here now, you're all in your late 50s, 60 in one -- you are the oldest right?
JA. JACKSON: I'm the oldest.
MORGAN: You are weathering well. How old are you, 60, 61?
JA. JACKSON: Sixty one.
MORGAN: All of you. Give me all your ages, come on.
T. JACKSON: 58.
M. JACKSON: Fifty five.
JE. JACKSON: Fifty seven.
MORGAN: You are all -- I've got to say, guys, you are aging well, like a fine bottle of Chattletour (ph). You get -- exactly. Exactly what I'm thinking. Again, I come back to your upbringing, because we can come to what happened next a little later. But do you think that -- when you see your father now, because he's such an extraordinary iconic figure I think in American entertainment.
He's the guy who has always had the mean tough guy reputation. Brutalizing his children, driving them to fame and fortune. The more I talk to people around your family, the less I feel that. The more I feel like he just wanted you guys to come out of life well.
JE. JACKSON: He got behind us. He supported us.
MORGAN: How do you get along with him now?
JE. JACKSON: Very well.
M. JACKSON: He kept us busy. He used to work two jobs. When he was away, we had cylinder blocks in our backyard. He made us move them -- I mean, we had hundreds of them. We had to move them from one side of the yard to the other side. That took all day.
After you get older and you realize what he was doing, just keeping you out of the streets.
MORGAN: What are the values he instilled in you, do you think?
JE. JACKSON: Respect other people.
M. JACKSON: Respect other people is the main one.
JE. JACKSON: Be honest and doing what you're told to do exactly how you're told to do it. And just be -- just the discipline.
MORGAN: Your mother said to me -- again, this is not airing until Monday, so it's slightly in reverse. But I think it's relevant. She said to me that she despairs in modern America in terms of parental control of children. That now you can't do anything to discipline your kids without sometimes kids ringing up and complaining about their own parents.
She said unfairly. Obviously sometimes there is fairly. And there is abuse out there and so on. But she felt strongly that there isn't enough discipline.
M. JACKSON: I don't think kids today respect adults the way they did when we were coming up as kids. I think that's important. I see kids today, they don't step aside and let their older -- elderly go in front of them or pass them, open doors for them.
They have no sense of that. That comes from in our house. Your parents instilling values and things of that nature in the kids. It's not happening, because sometimes the parents are too busy trying to be kids themselves.
MORGAN: Totally agree. Let's take a break, chaps. Let's come back and talk about -- a bit more about Michael. I want to know what plans you have for the tour, how you're going to remember him. There is a suggestion you're going to have some kind of hologram of him on stage.
OK, well, let's get to the truth behind all the rumors that are flying after the break.
MORGAN: The Jacksons performing "I'll Be There" during the Motown 25th Anniversary Special, back in 1983. I am joined by the four Jackson brothers. when you see there, I mean, I've got brothers. And I think if my little brother had suddenly broken out as this huge megastar, part of me would be really irritated.
Were you? Be honest, lads.
JE. JACKSON: No.
M. JACKSON: No.
MORGAN: No little part of you going, why him? He's the little one.
JE. JACKSON: You see that? That was the platform of the Jackson 5. That's what started it all. It gave him that platform to do what he did.
MORGAN: When you saw how phenomenal Michael became as a global superstar, I mean, arguably the most famous entertainer of them all ever, and I would include Elvis and the Beatles -- when you saw that, did you worry about him, knowing that he is your little brother? Did you worry that it was too much for one person to take?
JE. JACKSON: We had worries about just -- later during the circle of people, but not so much of what he was achieving. We knew that he knew what to do. But it was just certain people around that we weren't too happy about.
MORGAN: And the circumstances leading up to his death, I know for legal reasons we can't get into too much of this. But were you guys concerned about what was happening in his life? The build up to the tour, 50 dates, huge commitment for someone like Michael, with the energy he puts into those show.
I mean, how did you feel as brothers?
JA. JACKSON: Well, I was wondering how he was going to do 50 dates, first of all. I said if he is going to do that, we can give him some help. Just call the brothers and we can --
M. JACKSON: Jackie wanted to get up on stage.
MORGAN: Did you feel he was OK and himself?
JA. JACKSON: I thought he was fine, yeah. He was fine. He was very fine.
M. JACKSON: I think you have to pace yourself. I don't know if he was, you know -- you know, being rushed to make sure that they're -- the time was coming of being rushed into things. But health wise, he was fine.
MORGAN: What do you feel, Tito, about Conrad Murray?
T. JACKSON: Well, I feel that -- like we're supposed to have forgiving hearts. Doesn't mean I have to forget.
MORGAN: Do you forgive him?
T. JACKSON: Sure, I forgive him. I am supposed to.
MORGAN: Do you all feel that way?
JE. JACKSON: No.
MORGAN: You don't, Jermaine?
JE. JACKSON: No, I don't feel that way at all.
MORGAN: What do you feel?
JE. JACKSON: I feel like it's just negligence and not on his -- it's on his part plus others. And we're yet to know what really, really happened. But I'm not -- I'm a forgiving person, but not when it comes to that.
MORGAN: Tito, how can you forgive him? He's your little brother.
T. JACKSON: I'm not saying that I'm not upset about what happened. But I can't go around angry and upset and want to get revenge and all these things like that. You know, things happen and I'm made to forgive. So I have to forgive.
It doesn't mean I have to forget. I haven't forgot what happened. It hurts me dearly. Were there some terrible things done? Absolutely. But I have to forgive. I can't be angry.
MORGAN: You know, that's interesting. I interviewed a number of Conrad Murray's patients who all defended him to the hilt. The impression I got, looking from the outside, was that he got offered a massive payday and it may have clouded his judgment, a judgment that until then had been very sound, and that something just went wrong with him. And he was cutting corners and doing stuff with Michael he shouldn't have been doing in a private home. That was how it seemed to me.
JE. JACKSON: I agree with that. There is so much we can talk about when it comes to this. And --
JE. JACKSON: That's just not all of it, though. It's just the beginning.
M. JACKSON: I will say this, and I think my brothers will concur. You know, as time goes on, it's a little healing, but there's a void that will always be in your heart, because your brother is not here any more.
JA. JACKSON: Exactly.
MORGAN: But it has to be a huge void, because he was -- you know you all loved your brother. To the rest of the world, he was Michael Jackson the superstar. For you guys, you'd all been huge stars yourselves. But he was your little brother in the end. Nothing can change that. That is your feeling towards him.
JA. JACKSON: Just how you phrase that; people look at Michael as the big superstar. But to him, us he was just our brother. That's how it was, our brother.
And he is a big superstar, for years.
MORGAN: How did you feel about all the trials and tribulations he went through? The accusations, The molestation charge, all that kind of thing, did it have a very bad impact on him, do you think?
JE. JACKSON: Yes.
M. JACKSON: I think what we do here on planet Earth is that we are too quick to judge. I think the lord put us on the Earth to love one another, not to judge one another. That's his job to do, to judge people. When you do leave this planet, you are going to be judged on what you have done for yourself -- I mean not for yourself, what you've done for others, the things that you've done, and not for ridiculing people and things of that nature.
That's what we do. That's what we do wrong.
MORGAN: Let's take another break. Let's come back and talk about the tour. And let's talk about happier things with Michael, about the kind of music you are going to be playing. I want to know what your favorite Jackson songs were. I have a whole long list myself. But I want to know. I want to find which one each of you would choose.
JE. JACKSON: And we want to know your favorite.
MORGAN: We'll be right back.
MORGAN: The Jacksons on their Victory Tour in 1984, performing "Shake Your Body." That was the last time the brother ever performed on tour together. That is my favorite Jackson song.
M. JACKSON: "Shake Your Body"?
MORGAN: Yes. And I have shaken my body all over the world to that song, in a terrible manner, certainly not in the way you guys did. Here's what strikes me about you four: the -- even in the commercial breaks, you're just great mates, aren't you? Even now, despite everything you have been through.
I am supposed to be looking at these tormented, ruined souls, destroyed by fame, fortune. You know, you're the Jackson, apparently the most dysfunctional family out there.
MORGAN: Here's a secret I've unraveled from interviewing half of you: you are no more dysfunctional than most families I know. In fact, if anything, you're less dysfunctional. Do you feel -- You laugh when you hear that. But does it make you laugh when --
M. JACKSON: It makes you laugh.
MORGAN: -- assumes you're so dysfunctional. Here I see four brothers getting along great.
JA. JACKSON: They don't know us.
M. JACKSON: They don't know us.
MORGAN: Is there anything weird about you, Marlon.
JA. JACKSON: He is the funniest guy in the world right here. This guy right here.
MORGAN: Do you ever have arguments?
JA. JACKSON: Of course. Of course.
MORGAN: When was the last time you actually physically fought?
JA. JACKSON: We don't fight like that.
MORGAN: You don't do that?
JA. JACKSON: We might put on boxing gloves.
MORGAN: Who would win if you were to fight?
JE. JACKSON: I would.
JA. JACKSON: Me.
MORGAN: You all say you would win. OK. Let's cut to the real story, the favorite Jackson song of them all? Tito?
T. JACKSON: I like the old stuff, like "I Want You Back" and "ABC," "The Love You Save," the Motown stuff.
MORGAN: I love that. But here's the deal with this question: you can only have one song.
T. JACKSON: One song? "I Want You Back."
JA. JACKSON: "I'll Be There."
M. JACKSON: Since Jackie took one of mine, I'm going to say -- go to Jermaine.
JE. JACKSON: No, Marlon, because you're going to say the same thing I say. Go. Go.
M. JACKSON: I like "Maybe Tomorrow." .
MORGAN: Yes, great call.
JE. JACKSON: No. "Never Can Say Good-Bye."
JE. JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: But you see, there's so many to choose from, aren't there? Are we going to hear all these on the tour?
T. JACKSON: Yes.
MORGAN: All the hits?
T. JACKSON: Yes.
JE. JACKSON: We're very excited, Piers. We're very excited because there are so many songs. Right, guys? Taking through so many -- there's songs that -- my God, that we know, like "Looking Through The Windows," that we performed with Michael. And now we're doing it now.
MORGAN: Let me ask you about that. How are you going to commemorate Michael on tour, in terms of the actual tour, do you think?
M. JACKSON: I don't think you really can. I mean, you just have to -- Michael is the best --
JA. JACKSON: -- pictures and there will be songs.
MORGAN: The hologram thing is a rumor that's not true?
JA. JACKSON: Here's what happened. I did an interview one time.
JE. JACKSON: Jackie started this thing.
JA. JACKSON: No, I didn't.
JE. JACKSON: Yes, you did.
JA. JACKSON: Will there be a hologram of Michael. I said no, nothing like that, but maybe later on some other tours in the future, there might be something like that. The next day, it was all over the papers that Michael was going to be a hologram on tour.
MORGAN: You started all that?
JE. JACKSON: He started all that.
MORGAN: But one thing's for sure, he will be there in spirit with you guys. It will be an incredibly moving experience, I think. You have announced three shows at the moment. June 18th, Louisville, Kentucky; June 28, New York at the Apollo -- that will be amazing. I'm coming to that. You going to sort me some good seats? I want to be there for that. And 22nd of July, Los Angeles.
M. JACKSON: Can we bring you on the stage?
M. JACKSON: Can we bring you on the stage for "Shake Your Body?"
MORGAN: Yes! Now you're talking. Guys, we are talking. Listen, best of luck with the tour.
M. JACKSON: Thank you.
JE. JACKSON: Thank you.
MORGAN: It is going to be very exciting. I think a lot of fans out there can't wait to see this. Great to see you all back. Great to see you looking not very dysfunctional.
JA. JACKSON: OK, thank you.
MORGAN: Send my regards to all the family. And I appreciate you coming in. Good luck, guys.
M. JACKSON: We want to tell the fans out there we love them, and thank you for supporting our family. We really appreciate it.
MORGAN: Well, they can come and see you in action, which is what they would love more than ever. Guys, thank you all very much. Jacksons, a great interview.
And on Monday night, I sit down with their mother, Katherine Jackson. It's an exclusive and extraordinarily emotional hour with the woman who knew Michael Jackson better than anybody else. Listen to what she said about his death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Will you ever get over this, Katherine, do you think?
KATHERINE JACKSON, MOTHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Never. Every morning, all through the day, I think about Michael. If I wake up through the night, my mind is there. But --
MORGAN: What do you think when you think of him?
K. JACKSON: I just miss him. But being a Christian and believing in the resurrection, I feel that I'll see him again. I'm sorry. I just --
MORGAN: It's perfectly understandable. You're his mother, you know. It -- I can't imagine a worse thing. I'm a parent myself, to four kids. I can't even imagine how horrendous it must be to lose a child.
It's so unnatural, isn't it?
K. JACKSON: Yes, it is. And I've -- and it should be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Katherine Jackson also makes some explosive charges about Conrad Murray, who was convicted of involuntary manslaughter in Michael's death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: What are your feelings towards Dr. Conrad Murray? Do you blame him?
K. JACKSON: You know what? I can't even describe the way I feel about him. He did a terrible thing. And it might have been others involved. I don't know that. But I feel that. You know, I'd rather not answer that question.
The only thing he did -- for a person's life, four years in jail is not enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: That's my world exclusive interview with Katherine Jackson on Monday night. Coming up, Only in America.
MORGAN: For tonight's Only in America, what did you get for a graduation present? A pair of cufflinks, perhaps, a nice silver tankard? Maybe for the ladies amongst you, a treasured hope chest. Remember hope chests? They used to mean a beautiful wooden box for a girl to store her treasured clothes and possessions. Hope chests were by tradition elegant, refined, genuine.
But today's female graduates prefer a rather different form of chest, ones of the fake variety that frankly make me despair not hope for the future of women in this country. Take Madison Landis (ph) who is 18 years old and lives in Houston, Texas. Like nearly three million other young teenage boys and girls, Madison is saying good-bye to high school, grabbing her diploma and embarking on a brave new world.
What does she really, really want for a graduation gift from her parents to see her on her way? Breast implants. Yes, you heard me, a fake cleavage.
Most parents would have been appalled by such a request. But not Madison's parents. Oh no, mom and dad were so thrilled, they couldn't wait to stump up the cash and get their little girl the surgery. Here she is captured in lurid detail on camera being transformed from a double A to a 34 C, thanks to a large dose of silicone, watched by her beaming, proud mother, Tanya.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's something she felt really strongly about and, you know, she's 18. It's her body. And so we're willing to support her decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: You'll be unsurprised to learn that Tanya herself got breast implants when she was 24. Brett, the father meanwhile, says it will enhance his daughter's self-image.
Really, sir? Maybe there's a simpler, cheaper, kinder route to achieving that same goal. Like you and Tanya looking Madison squarely in the eye and telling her, you look absolutely beautiful and perfect in every way. Don't change a single thing.
Or perhaps for Madison's parents, if this is too complicated to understand, I should pay for you both to have brain implants. That's all for us tonight. "AC 360" starts now.