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New Evidence Released in Trayvon Martin Shooting

Aired May 18, 2012 - 19:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you from New York City.

Tonight new evidence pouring out in the Trayvon Martin shooting case. We have the surveillance video of Trayvon`s last minutes alive, plus photos of accused killer George Zimmerman`s injuries, and new witness information that could turn this case on its head. We`re analyzing with a team of experts.


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, fast-breaking developments in the Trayvon Martin case. Newly released surveillance video shows the teen in his hoodie at the 7-Eleven where he bought iced tea and Skittles just moments before he was gunned down by George Zimmerman.

Plus you`ll hear new audio recordings of Trayvon`s girlfriend and the shooter`s father talking about the scream on the 911 calls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is absolutely, positively George Zimmerman.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we`ll hear from a witness who claims he saw the pair struggling. What does all this evidence uncover? And are there discrepancies even within the reports themselves? We`re looking at both sides with a friend of George Zimmerman and an attorney from Trayvon`s family.

Plus, tonight our adventure to slimness continue. I`ll talk to a "Biggest Loser" champ and learn her secrets to slimness. Summer is just around the corner, and we`re on our way to looking fabulous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news on a big story tonight, the Trayvon Martin case. This is a major new development, evidence directly connected to the shooting, never before seen, has now been released.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trayvon Martin! Trayvon Martin!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trayvon Martin! Trayvon Martin!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trayvon Martin! Trayvon Martin!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drugs were found in the teen`s system when he died.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, SHOOT TRAYVON MARTIN: This guy looks like he`s up to no good or he`s on drugs or something. Something`s wrong with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are the last known images of Trayvon Martin, the 17-year-old. There you see him inside a convenience store. He`s wearing the hoodie and buying Skittles and iced tea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Photos of Zimmerman, now they were taken at the police station the night of the shooting. In these you can see the swelling and the abrasions on his nose. And we`re getting our clearest look yet at the cuts on the back of his head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was definitely a fight here, and this is the first time that we have seen evidence of a real fight.

SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON: This is not a black and white thing. This is about a right and wrong thing. Justice for Trayvon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t know who initiated it. We don`t know who escalated it. We don`t know who threatened who. So this is clearly some important, relevant evidence, but only a piece of the story.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More stunning new developments tonight in the Trayvon Martin case as crucial video, photos and taped interviews with key witnesses were made public.

Just released, this surveillance video from the 7-Eleven store that shows Trayvon Martin buying a bag of Skittles and an iced tea, shortly before being shot to death by George Zimmerman. This may be the last video of Trayvon before he died.

You can see him wearing his much-discussed hoodie, and we also seem to be absolutely nothing out of the ordinary: chatting with the store clerk. We also see that Trayvon is a tall teenager, 17 years old. Tonight, we`re analyzing every frame of this fascinating video with our experts.

Also released, this evidence, the first photo from that night, showing George Zimmerman after his deadly encounter. It`s grainy, black and white, but take a look at that nose. This was taken moments after the encounter. Does the nose look broken to you?

All this being released as part of Florida`s sunshine laws. Mountains of evidence, 67 CDs filled with video and documents and photos of more than 200 pages of documents.

An enormous number of witnesses listed: 50 police witnesses, 28 civilian witnesses, and an additional 22 unidentified civilian witnesses.

Cops released audio of one of the eyewitnesses. Listen carefully to what this man says he saw that night.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first walked out there, the black guy was on top, and the only reason I can tell that was because the guy that was on the ground under him at that point wrestling was definitely a lighter color.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Does this witness corroborate George Zimmerman`s side of the story, that Trayvon Martin was on top of him? And do the wounds in these photos bolster Zimmerman`s claim of self-defense?

But we also ask tonight, do the documents hurt Zimmerman? The warrant for his arrest states, quote, "The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement." It says it right there. Ultimately avoidable.

We have an amazing panel to discuss all of this tonight. We begin with Mark Nejame, Orlando criminal defense attorney, HLN contributor. You are there in Orlando where this tragedy occurred, same region. What`s the buzz there locally, the reaction to this extraordinary release of evidence?

MARK NEJAME, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, like so many cases, seemingly, in central Florida, everybody is just shaking their head, and I think, really, everyone is waiting for the evidence to come out.

Clearly, this is a polarizing case. You have people on both sides of this who are really adamant in their positions. I think the vast majority of people are simply wanting to take a breath and go through this mountain of evidence and really start figuring out what, in fact, did happen before they really draw the ultimate conclusion.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to look at this surveillance video and go around and try to get reaction to it.

Natalie Jackson, you`re the attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family. What does this 7-Eleven -- 7-Eleven video tell you?

NATALIE JACKSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, I`ll tell you, Jane, we discussed this with Sybrina. She just saw the video for the first time last night on television like everyone else, and she said that she wished that she was there to warn him what was going to happen in less than, you know, 5, 10 minutes.

But what it told us is that, you know, Trayvon was buying candy and tea and not in an aggressive mood. He was -- looks like a kid who was, you know, being normal buying a drink.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney. Let`s take a look at the surveillance video and what do you see? What does it tell you?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, again, Jane, this is a young man who did not leave the house for nefarious reasons. He`s not out prowling the neighborhood, looking to burglarize somebody. He`s doing exactly what his family has always maintained he did. He went to the store and he picked up some candy and iced tea for his little brother. He`s not looking for trouble. He`s not hanging out. He`s headed home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Midwin Charles, you can say that the store clerk is having a nice chat with him, it would seem. What are your thoughts?

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree. He`s having a nice chat with him. And it also disproves what you say George Zimmerman said on the tape, which is this guy looks like he`s on drugs. This guy looks like he`s up to nothing. That`s the image of a young man who looks pretty normal. He doesn`t seem to be under the influence of anything and doesn`t seem to be aggressive anyway, as well.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Frank Taaffe, you are George Zimmerman`s former neighbor and a defender. What does the video say to you?

FRANK TAAFFE, FORMER NEIGHBOR: It tells me two things. I`ve walked that 7-Eleven back to the retreat. It`s about a 15-, 20-minute walk. I believe on the tape it shows him leaving somewhere around 6:20, 6:25. You know, I can make it in 15 minutes.

You know, it looks normal where he`s there now, but we don`t know what happened. It`s reasonable to say we don`t know what happened from the time he left the 7-Eleven to the time he got to the retreat. Fifteen minutes for me to walk it, a young 17-year-old I`m sure could traverse that within...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what`s your point?

TAAFFE: ... ten minutes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not getting your point.

TAAFFE: No. I concur and I agree with the other guests on your show. It`s just that we reasonably, or we can reasonably say we don`t know what happened between the period.

Also, they found a cigarette lighter and $40 on him. He wasn`t employed. You know, who gave him the $40? This is what was in the report.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re not going to -- let me -- wait a second. Now come on, if he went into the 7-Eleven to get Skittles and an iced tea without any money, then people would criticize him for that.

TAAFFE: No but...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You need cash to pay for Skittles and iced tea. I`ve got them right here.

TAAFFE: That`s right. No one -- no one is arguing that point. We just don`t know what happened between the time he left the 7-Eleven and he got to where the point "X" was where he circled around George Zimmerman and George said he looked suspicious and that he`s on drugs. Lo and behold, what do we find in his system? THC.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s talk about that with forensic scientist Larry Kobilinsky. And I want to -- we have some facts here about this whole THC issue, and I want to get your take, because you`re the foremost expert on this.

The medical examiner said they found THC, which is a component of marijuana, in Trayvon Martin`s system. Now, we`ve done some investigating on THC. Within an hour of smoking pot, a person will have between a hundred and 200 nanograms per milliliter of THC in their system. You fast forward three hours, that drops to under five nanograms.

Trayvon had 1.5 nanograms of THC and 7.5 of another kind of THC. Now what does this is say about when he smoked pot?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC EXPERT: It`s very hard to answer that question, Jane. First of all, it`s a very low level. That`s No. 1.

No. 2, at that level, you know, it`s very questionable as to whether it had any impact on his behavior.

Now, we know that THC is the active ingredient in marijuana, and it will, you know, diminish your inhibitions, but at that level I think it becomes almost irrelevant.

In fact, when did he smoke it? If he was a chronic smoker, he could have smoked it four or five days ago, and he would still have picked up a level as low as that.

So I think it`s a red herring, and I just don`t see how that would have impacted his behavior and played a role in this case. I even question as to whether it will come in as a relevant piece of evidence. It certainly has to come in as part of the autopsy report. It`s part of the toxicology report.

But its significance in the case in deciding one way or the other, I think it`s not very significant at all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it will definitely become evidence because it`s part of the autopsy report.

KOBILINSKY: That`s correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it`s not like it could be argued that, well, this is irrelevant; therefore, it shouldn`t be admitted at all. Because it`s in the autopsy report, it has to be admitted.

So let me go around and find out. What is the impact, do you think, of this whole THC and marijuana angle? Some many people say, "Well, it`s irrelevant." But in a case like this things can have an impact. So I`ll start with you, Midwin Charles.

CHARLES: Well, I think I`m glad that they released the 7-Eleven footage, because what it does is it shows you that this isn`t someone who appears to be jittery.

If he is being accused of being under the influence of marijuana -- and I`m sure that there are those who will use this THC level to say that he was under the influence or perhaps seemed to be erratic or skittish or would have acted in an act of aggression. You just don`t see that on this videotape. And this is a videotape that was shot just a few minutes before this altercation occurred.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly Hughes...

CHARLES: This sort of refutes that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holly Hughes, any impact to the THC, the marijuana found in Trayvon`s system?

HUGHES: No, in fact, I think it cuts against them, because what they`re going to do is they`re going to question the toxicologist, what is the effects that marijuana typically has on people? They get sleepy, and they get the munchies. They don`t become aggressive. This it`s cocaine. This isn`t crack. This isn`t meth.

So if, in fact, it comes in, it`s not suppressed in a motion in limine, I think it helps to show it would have mellowed him, not made him actively aggressive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break, we`re going to play the statement from the witness who says he saw the struggle with his own eyes. Listen to his words, and we`ll analyze it with our experts.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first walked out there, the black guy was on top, and the only reason I can tell that was because the guy that was on the ground under him at that point wrestling was definitely a lighter color.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s breaking news we`re hearing from this eyewitness, he says, to the crucial confrontation between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. And this is him talking to police.

Now, what`s more, this witness said he saw some MMA-style fighting. That apparently means mixed martial arts. Listen to this same witness explain what he meant by that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When it moved onto the concrete, the guy in the black shirt or sweater was on top of him. And when I say -- when I meant to say MMA, it was more of just like he was, you know, over his leg part, like he -- I`m trying to think how to put this. If you ever watch MMA, the guy that`s on top is usually in control is what -- that`s what I meant.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Mark Nejame, criminal defense attorney and HLN contributor, this is a way to say the guy on top was in control and that he believes Trayvon was on top. So does that mean he was the aggressor?

NEJAME: No. It means that there is mutual combat, and at that time he was getting the best -- he being Trayvon, was getting the best of Zimmerman. It still doesn`t take us to what happened for the minute and ten seconds that proceeded that, which is still the big part of the puzzle that needs to be filled in.

We do know that there was a confrontation. We do know that it got violent. We do know that there are injuries to Zimmerman and that there were limited injuries, at least from the autopsy report, to Trayvon.

So it doesn`t tell us what preceded it. It does tell us, though, that once there was this contact between the other, that there was a fight and that apparently, seemingly Trayvon was getting the best of that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Frank Taaffe, you are George Zimmerman`s defender. What do you make of this witness suggesting that Trayvon was on top of George Zimmerman?

TAAFFE: I believe in him wholeheartedly, and I want to go back to that 7-Eleven video real quick.

Trayvon is a very imposing young man. You can see by the size over the clerk. That minute and ten seconds.

I want to go back to what Mr. Nejame said about a confrontation. This was an ambush, Mark. He was ambushed. I challenge you to come out there at night and see what this place is at night. Trayvon lied in wait for him. George is not a violent person. George is not a racist. I`ve been saying that since day one, since I went on the show back in March.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Frank, I asked you these specific questions and you just go off on a tangent. I was asking about the witness comment. Natalie Jackson...

TAAFFE: I agree with him. I agree with him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... you`re the attorney for Trayvon Martin`s family. I want to give you an opportunity, because some people have made a deal over this witness, saying that Trayvon was on top of George Zimmerman. Your thoughts, Natalie?

JACKSON: My thoughts are you have to take this all into context. I agree with Mark. This doesn`t tell us what happened in the fight. It doesn`t matter what happened at the end of the fight. It`s only from that portion. There are also witnesses. One witness was adamant: there was no fight at the time of the gunshot.

This is what the fight -- this just tells us there was a struggle and the state attorney has -- has in the affidavit said that there was a struggle.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: More breaking news in a moment, but first your "Viral Video of the Day."


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m messing with her and then, you know, out with milk.

My dog is a mother to four kittens. She adopted them as her own.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She seems to take...




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said the guy getting close to him. So I tell him run. And then I tell him keep running. He not going to run, and then he say -- I tell him why you not running? He says, "I`m not going to run" because he`s tired. God knows he tired.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry. Trayvon said he`s not running because -- he`s not going to run, he said, because you could tell he was tired?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can you tell he was tired?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was breathing hard.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Police also released Trayvon`s girlfriend`s interview about what happened that night. Remember, Trayvon was talking to her on his cell phone shortly before this tragic shooting. Listen to how the girlfriend says the confrontation started.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you definitely could tell another voice that was not Trayvon?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you heard this other voice say what?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "What are you doing around here?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "What are you doing around here," OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I call, "Trayvon, what going on? What going on?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is you saying that?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then I calling him, and he didn`t answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No answer from Trayvon?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I hear something like bump. You can hear that Trayvon -- that somebody bumped Trayvon, because I can hear the grass.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: She says she didn`t hear any shots, but it seems like she heard the beginning of this deadly meeting. Some legal observers, Holly Hughes, have said this girlfriend of Trayvon is the key to the state`s case. Do you agree?

HUGHES: Not in itself. I don`t think any one piece of evidence can be viewed in a vacuum. It all pieces together.

We don`t know right now who started the fight. We only know who ended it, Jane.

And like I`ve been saying from the beginning if, in fact, George Zimmerman had simply identified himself and said, "Hey, I`m with Neighborhood Watch. Can I holler at you for a second? Do you need help? Are you lost?" If he had just made the identification and a simple inquiry, the whole thing could have been avoided.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, these new photos of Zimmerman`s wounds are, some say, very telling, and we`re going to show them to you in a moment. And we`re trying to analyze them right now.

As you take a look at some of the photos, you can see, well, there`s some kind of injury on his nose. There`s a cut there. He says his nose was broken. You have the bloody wounds on the back of his head.

And take a look at something else. We`re going to show you George Zimmerman`s hands. This is a new photo, just released, his hands completely injury-free.

Now, we also found out in the report that Trayvon`s hand had one cut on the ring finger of his left hand.

So Larry Kobilinsky, forensic scientist, John Jay College of Criminal Justice, what do these photos tell us?

KOBILINSKY: Well, it would indicate that Trayvon Martin hit some object with his left fist and developed a laceration on the ring finger, on his fourth digit.

Apparently, Mr. Zimmerman doesn`t show any kind of injuries...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: To his hands.

KOBILINSKY: ... to his hands, and that`s, you know, not totally unexpected. There was a scuffle, but what is consistent is damage to the left fist of Trayvon Martin and the injuries sustained by Mr. Zimmerman, to his head.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Midwin Charles, big picture?

CHARLES: I think the big picture is that a confrontation did occur. I think the big picture is that George Zimmerman was hurt, but it doesn`t tell us who started the fight? Who was standing their ground?

Did George Zimmerman first approach Trayvon, and Trayvon felt threatened, felt that he was facing bodily injury? So we don`t know that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many pieces of the puzzle. More next.



GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, CHARGED WITH MURDER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: Hey, we`ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there`s a real suspicious guy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said he shot him dead. The person is dead laying on the ground.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Zimmerman had a prescription for two drugs, temazepam and Adderall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Adderall can change your vision. It can change how you perceive things. It can make you angrier and more aggressive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trayvon Martin`s autopsy showed that he had injuries on his knuckles when he died.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The medical examiner found only two injuries on 17-year-old Trayvon Martin`s body. His fatal gunshot wound and broken skin on his knuckles.

SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: Our son was not committing any crime.


CROWD: No justice. No peace.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something in George Zimmerman`s mind made him get out of the car with a 9 millimeter gun and go after a kid who by his own words, George Zimmerman`s own words, was running away from him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Extraordinary developments in the Trayvon Martin case -- a release of a ton of new evidence including video of Trayvon Martin tragically just minutes before he was gunned down by George Zimmerman buying Skittles and iced tea at the local 7-Eleven. It was shortly thereafter as he was heading back to his dad`s house that he and George Zimmerman got into a confrontation that left him dead.

So from an emotional standpoint it is heart-wrenching to take a look at this young man who appears to be getting along very well with the store clerk and he is merely buying Skittles and iced tea and headed out on a rainy night in the Orlando area.

Now, there was an eyewitness who said he saw the confrontation, the crucial confrontation. Let`s listen to what this eyewitness had to say.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first walked out there the black guy was on top, and the only reason I can tell that was because the guy that was on the ground under him at that point wrestling was definitely a lighter color.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what significance is there that this eyewitness is saying that it would appear to him anyway in a dark, rainy night that Trayvon was at one point on top of George Zimmerman.

Dr. Kobilinsky, forensic scientist, you`ve covered so many of these cases, what will happen in court with that witness?

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, we always worry about the reliability of eyewitness testimony. But in this case the physical evidence appears to support what this witness says, namely that George Zimmerman was on the ground with his back to the ground. The physical evidence shows that the back of the clothing was wet and grass stains were present.

So again, we don`t know if he was on the ground the entire time, but certainly he was there at some point, so it lends credibility to what this person is saying.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Holly, as criminal defense attorney everybody is mentioning this big picture issue is that, yes you can have a confrontation, one person can be the aggressor initially but then when the other person is fighting back he could appear to be the aggressor during the confrontation. To put it mildly, it takes two to tango, you know.

So you can`t have a confrontation where one person is doing all the aggressing. Generally, if somebody begins as the aggressor, another person in standing up for themselves will, in the interim appear to be the aggressor.

So is it kind of saying that all of this stuff should be just almost thrown out?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, you have to take it all together. You put it together like a puzzle because, Jane, how do we know that Trayvon was not defending himself?

And can I just point out, I`ve reviewed this autopsy report, on page 3 of the six-page autopsy report. Everybody was making a big deal about there was this cut on Trayvon`s finger. The autopsy report lists it as a quarter inch by eight inch small abrasion. That`s all the autopsy report and it says no other injuries except for the penetrating gunshot wound to the chest.

So, if he was defending himself he has one little tiny abrasion, small abrasion on one finger. So I`m not sure that it`s as big a deal as everybody is making it. If he defended himself by hitting back, ok. But if he was pummeling this guy there would be a lot of blood on his hands and there would be a lot more injury than just a small abrasion.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, then how do you account for George Zimmerman`s apparent broken nose, according to the medical report and these photographs and the lacerations on the back of his head?

HUGHES: Well, Jane, what I find interesting is he didn`t go to the hospital. He was asked by the paramedics on two separate occasions: once before they transported him, and then again the police officers asked him in the car that night, do you want to go seek assistance, medical assistance? Do you want to take, you know, us to take you to the hospital now. And he kept refusing and refusing. So we see a medical report that`s done the next day.

I`m not accusing George Zimmerman of self-inflicting these but I do find it suspicious that all these injuries aren`t showing up until the next day and that`s when he goes to the doctor. His doctor says I think you should do a follow-up with an ear, nose and throat specialist to see if this is really a severe injury to your nose and George Zimmerman doesn`t do it. Once again, he doesn`t follow up. He doesn`t go find out if this is really a broken nose.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Another big issue is who yelled for help in that 911 call? Now, first, let`s listen to it and you can hear it for yourself.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he look hurt to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t see him. I don`t want to go out there. I don`t know what`s going on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody`s calling for help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re sending --


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you think he`s yelling "help"?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, what is your --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now it`s my understanding that the authorities could not determine who was yelling on that tape, but George Zimmerman`s father told police he`s certain who yelled for help.

Let`s listen to this newly released audio tape of George Zimmerman`s father.


ROBERT ZIMMERMAN SR., GEORGE ZIMMERMAN`S FATHER: The 911 and the other tapes were played for the Martin family. And they identified that as their son crying for help.

That is absolutely, positively George Zimmerman. Myself, my wife, family members and friends know that that is George Zimmerman. There is no doubt who is yelling for help.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So George Zimmerman`s dad is saying that`s George, but listen, his friends and family are obviously going say it`s George Zimmerman. This is a crucial issue here.

Midwin Charles, I can`t hear -- I couldn`t identify -- it`s one little -- it`s a guttural scream. How can anybody say who issued? The experts themselves said they couldn`t.

MIDWIN CHARLES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. And it`s a bit of those inaudible sounds where you can barely even make out the word "help". The 911 operator even had to ask the witness, "Did he just yell for help?" Even her, herself, doesn`t -- you know, she wasn`t sure, so how can you readily identify who that voice belongs to?

You just can`t tell exactly who said it, at least not yet. And of course, Robert Zimmerman is going to say that that`s his son because it`s helpful to his son`s case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Larry Kobilinsky, as we listen to this evidence and parse it, it seems that so much of it -- it`s like (inaudible), everybody is looking at it from a different perspective. Does it really quantify anything or is it just sort of fodder for conversation?

KOBILINSKY: Here`s my thinking on this, Jane. We only have one voice here. Unfortunately Trayvon Martin can`t speak, but the one voice we hear is George Zimmerman. And for me, as a forensic scientist, what I would like to do is look at the physical evidence and see if it`s consistent with his story or inconsistent. I think that is an important factor. It`s not the totality of this case.

Obviously there are other things, eyewitness testimony, et cetera. But so far, the medical, the physical evidence is consistent with the story that George Zimmerman tells and I think that`s important to note.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that could be a problem then for prosecutors.

KOBILINSKY: I do think that this release of information badly weakens the prosecutor`s case. Still and all, we don`t know who started this fight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Natalie Jackson, you heard Larry Kobilinsky, forensic scientist. Do you agree that this massive release of evidence hurts the state`s case against George Zimmerman?

NATALIE JACKSON, ATTORNEY FOR TRAYVON MARTIN`S FAMILY (via telephone): I did hear him and I respect what he`s saying but I disagree with him. Well, he kind of agrees with me a little bit. It comes down to George Zimmerman`s credibility and what George Zimmerman says. There are inconsistent statements about this incident coming from George Zimmerman. George Zimmerman`s own words in the end will show that Trayvon Martin was acting defensively.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, in one instance, the state`s evidence seems to directly contradict itself. This is the key piece of evidence, the gunshot; how far George Zimmerman was from Trayvon when he fired the gun. Here`s the issue. Lab tests by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement state, "Residue had physical effects consistent with a contact shot." The autopsy, however, concludes the fatal blow was quote, "consistent with intermediate range".

So those are two different things. So I have to go back Larry Kobilinsky, you`ve got a little tape measure there to illustrate this. Show us the tape measure and tell us why these are such contradicting statements within the reports themselves.

KOBILINSKY: Jane, the contradiction is simply that there are two different kinds of analysis. The ballistics people are looking at the clothing. They`re the ones that indicated -- they did test fires and what not, and indicated it appeared to be a contact shot just looking at the clothing.

The pathologist looking at the body, declared this to be an intermediate range shot. Of the two, we have to trust the pathologist.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s the difference.

KOBILINSKY: The difference is if it`s a closed-in shot it`s between 0 and 6 inches. That is approximately that level. A contact shot is when the muzzle is abutted right up against the skin.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meaning -- boom.

KOBILINSKY: Right. Now, an intermediate shot is any place from six inches all the way up to about 18 inches. So that`s about that distance. Now, again, it`s hard on the air to see this but it`s consistent with a fight, a scuffle.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, I think that`s going to be really crucial. Again, nothing is clear here. It`s all open to interpretation.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did Ali Vincent do it? The winner of in Season Five of "The Biggest Loser" lost 112, the first-ever win by a female.

ALI VINCENT, WINNER, "THE BIGGEST LOSER" SEASON 5: I finally believe in myself again. People ask me all the time, so are you going to gain weight? You know, do you think you`ll gain your weight back? And I say absolutely not. There is no way that I will ever.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Our adventure to slimness, every night on the show, we are offering fun and easy ways to tweak our lives to get skinnier and sexier. Join me. Head over to my blog, or my Jane Velez- Mitchell Facebook page.

Now tonight we have a huge winner with "The Biggest Loser". She was 234 pounds. She lost 112 pounds and down to 122 pounds and became the biggest winner of NBC`s "The Biggest Loser".


VINCENT: When I was getting ready to come to "The Biggest Loser" ranch I was scared. Like, ok, Ali, this is it. This is your opportunity to have everything you want in your life. No more excuses."

I`m an athlete now. I`m an athlete preparing for the biggest competition of my life. This is mine for the taking and I`m taking it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joining me now, weight loss champ Ali Vincent, author of "Believe It, Be It" and host of the show "Live Big with Ali Vincent". Ali, you are an inspiration. You look -- wow -- you look fabulous. Ok. So many of us seeking an answer -- how did you do it?

VINCENT: You know what? I think that that`s really the key and one of the things that I like to tell people. I just started checking into my life and literally started paying attention to what I was eating and how I was moving. Obviously, "The Biggest Loser" gave me that platform to kind of check in and to get started. But it`s been every day for the rest of my life.

I think that was the difference this time. Because you know, I`ve lost hundreds of pounds throughout my life, they just happened to be the same 30 over and over and over again, you know. The difference this time was really acknowledging that it`s a lifestyle change.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I am so proud of you and you are an inspiration for Americans. You know, I think people don`t realize how much we`re all eating. Here`s another scary stat but we`re going to go right back to the solution.

Scary stat of the day -- of the evening: a new study shows the average American eats 29 pounds of French fries every year and -- get this -- 600 pounds of dairy products. That`s almost 2 pounds of dairy products a day.

Now, I have to say I`m very proud and happy to say that I have not touched a drop of dairy products in 16 years and I don`t miss it one bit. You know why? My philosophy is cow`s milk is for cows not for people.

Betty in Florida, you have been joining in on our adventure to slimness. How are you doing?

BETTY, FLORIDA (via telephone): I`m doing great. And I just want to thank you --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you doing it? Are you drinking --

BETTY: I just want to thank you because --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you doing eight glasses?

BETTY: I`m sorry?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you doing the eight glasses and the apple?

BETTY: I am.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How`s it going?

BETTY: It`s going great, and actually some of the helpful tips have been real easy and other tips have been very challenging. The guest that you had on your show the other day had advice that was so important to eat apples because it contains pectin. So I tried to find other foods that contained pectin and actually yogurt does contain pectin.

And I just feel like some of the tips that have been discussed on the show played such an important role on my health and you`ve educated so many people on this issue. I`ve actually participated in some of the Facebook chats that you`ve done.


BETTY: And I`ve actually been educated on labels and I no longer focus on labels that have all-natural and new and improved. I try to --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Betty, I`m proud of you. I`m proud of you. We`re doing it together, ok. Eight glasses of water, an apple.

And you know what`s so impressive, Midwin Charles wanted to stay and see.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Help the horses next. First, you deserve a laugh break.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pedal. You got it, Norman. Pedal. Good boy, Norman. Good boy. Good pedal. Good boy.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good boy. Good boy.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For seven weeks we had an undercover investigator in a training barn in Collierville, Tennessee, and we do have an active campaign against the cruel practice of soring. Judges are rewarding an extreme gait that can`t be produced without abuse.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: For years there`s been suspicions in the horse world about how the trainers of Tennessee Walking Horses produce the big lick, that`s the high stepping gait that Tennessee Walking Horses are known for.

Well now, thanks to another Humane Society of the United States undercover investigation, there is video proof of what some trainers are doing behind the scenes.

We must warn you the video is disturbing. But together we can put an end to, well, see for yourself. The HSUS says their cameras captured horses at well-known Tennessee trainer Jackie McConnell`s stables being hit with sticks, shocked in the head and allegedly subjected to soring. That`s an illegal, cruel practice that creates open wounds in the horse`s ankles by putting chemicals on their hooves. This makes the horses flinch in pain, so much pain they often cannot stand up or don`t want to. All of this abuse for a ribbon.

As we discuss this, we`re also going to show you some file video of high-stepping maneuvers, but those riders are in no way related to this investigation. This is the undercover footage. Look at this. This is horrific abuse, as far as I can see, an animal that`s helpless, tethered, being struck.

Joining me now Keith Dane, director of equine protection for the Humane Society of the United States, before we get to what Americans can do to stop this, tell us exactly what you say you uncovered.

KEITH DANE, DIRECTOR, EQUINE PROTECTION, HSUS: Well, Jane, this investigation by the Humane Society of the United States pulled back the curtain on one of the most egregious practices against horses, the most brutal, torturous practices that we`ve ever seen against horses. And that`s the soring of Tennessee Walking Horses. It involves the application of caustic chemicals to their feet that burns into their skin causing so much pain that when they step down with a chain around their ankle, it hits that ankle and causes them to flinch and create a high-stepping gait that wins ribbons in the show ring.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Again, this is the undercover footage. The undercover footage you obtain. I want to hear what do you say that this trainer was doing to these horses?

DANE: Well, it was torture. He is abusing these animals for the sake of a blue ribbon. He`s causing pain in order to get these horses to step higher, and that`s what wins ribbons is the higher the gait then the bigger the award. This guy was intentionally abusing these animals just to further his coffers and get blue ribbons in horse shows.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The trainer at the center of the video is facing a federal indictment. When this was recorded last year, Jackie McConnell was on a federal disqualification list but continued to train horses. Now he has no comment about these charges.

But is this a larger problem? ABC News reporting at last year`s championship in a random inspection, federal agents found foreign substances either to cause pain or to hide pain around the front hooves in all 52 horses tested. That`s 52 of 52 horses showing, according to the Humane Society, what is a horribly cruel, illegal training practice. You know what? You`ve got to ask what does it say about the industry centered around these high-strutting horses? Why should horses strut in an unnatural fashion to begin with? Why do we have to take God`s perfection and twist it to our own ego needs?

Leave the horses alone. Let them be horses. That`s what I say. Let`s stop it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go to the humane society of the United States Web site to learn how you can help these horses, Keith Dane, what was your emotional reaction when you first saw this video?

DANE: Well, Jane, as an animal lover and as a horseman I was outraged by it. It`s sickening. It`s painful to watch. Some of the scenes in this video are thing that no one should ever have to see. And we have to, unfortunately, witness it in order to know what`s going on and be able to take action and be outraged enough to demand that action is taken.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you something, the person who went undercover for the Humane Society of the United States may well have put his or her life at risk --

DANE: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- to capture this footage and speak for the voiceless horses. Get involved. Join the Humane Society of the United States. Follow the links, right, and end this horrific practice. These animals cannot speak for themselves.

Nancy is next.