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Deadly Gas Station Drugs?
Aired May 24, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.
A 74-year-old woman guns down her teenage grandson. Police say it was murder, but her lawyer says synthetic marijuana sent him into a violent rage.
That attorney with me live. Call in, talk to him at 1-855-373-7395.
Now, what do you want to know about these legal designer drugs which are widely available to kids? I just walked up the street here in Hollywood, bought some myself. That`s how easy they are to get.
Let`s get started.
PINSKY: Good evening.
A reminder we`re taking your calls and asking what would make a grandmother shoot and kill her own grandson?
Well, a new drug -- it`s not even new for that matter -- but a drug your teenagers -- it won`t be new to them, let`s put it that way. They can get these chemicals, these drugs at a gas station, at so-called smoke shops.
I want you to stay with me tonight. This is an important story. It`s been bantered about a little bit. We`re going to get into it in detail. K2, Spice, bath salts, your kids know where they can get this. I walked out on the street, just picked some up, my staff went out and got some.
So, I said, why shouldn`t I go buy some as well? Within blocks from here, I was able to get it, walk in. You will see that.
But, first, I want you to watch this about the lead story.
PINSKY (voice-over): Prosecutors charged Sandra Layne with murdering her grandson Jonathan Hoffman. They say she planned the killing, and took minutes, not seconds, to pump eight bullets into his body. Layne`s lawyers say Jonathan flew at her in a rage caused in part by synthetic marijuana, K2, Spice -- harmless-sounding names for a drug, but many say it`s anything but.
The effects can include self-destructive behavior, paranoia, hallucinations, agitations, and delusions. In some cases, even seizuring. The chilling twist, a classmate of Jonathan`s, Tucker Cipriano, allegedly killed his father after using Spice. And 18-year-old David Rozga committed suicide after smoking the substance.
The worse part, it`s legal in many states. Dealers skirt FDA regulation by marketing it as an incense and using "not for human consumption" labels. The kids get it easily at convenience stores and malls. And there`s no way to detect it in urine. So, kids will use it to replace pot.
The word on the street is: smoke it to get high.
PINSKY: Joining me, the attorney for Sandra Layne, Jerome Sabbota, and Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of "JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL" on HLN.
Jane, when you first heard about this story, what did you think?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Why is the government allowing this to be on the market? So, what if it says not for human consumption, which it says right there?
PINSKY: There it is. We`re going to look at -- we`ll share it, Jane. You have some.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s designed for kids. And they`ve got to know that kids are putting this in their bodies.
PINSKY: Used for incense purposes only. Not to be sold under 18. It`s got all kinds of groovy ingredients on it.
The JWH-018, which is the compound that sort of -- acts like cannabis, they -- this label says, oh, specifically no JWH in here, except specifically that`s probably what is in here. Tipping them off, that`s exactly what`s in here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is absolutely outrageous that kids are able to essentially smoke this. Now, they say, oh, it`s incense, it shouldn`t be smoked.
But do the math. This is what kids are doing. They see this, and I think the government needs to step in and outlaw this and take this off the market.
PINSKY: Let me just say before I go to Sandra`s attorney, is that the reason they got into this, in my experience, I saw kids starting to get involved in this, was to get around drug tests for cannabis, for pot. They started, were smoking at work, every day, or whatever, they would start to get detected. And they went, well, this stuff doesn`t get detected and it hits the same system in the brain as pot, which it does, but has all these other effects, that makes them wacky and agitated and self-destructive.
Jerome Sabbota, you are Sandra Layne`s lawyer. Is that what went on here? This kid was rageful and violent because of this drug?
JEROME SABBOTA, GRANDMOTHER`S ATTORNEY: Well, I never made that statement. I don`t know where you picked that statement up.
Sandra Layne had an argument with her grandson. The argument escalated and as a result, she was in fear and he got killed. I never said it was a result of K2 or Spice. I said it was a result of many factors and that played a part of it.
I think that what is going on is that there`s the Cipriano case that`s in my office and there`s allegations that young man while on K2 or Spice killed his father and tried to kill his mother and his brother. So I think what is going on is the media`s blending these things or these two cases together.
PINSKY: Well, I heard --
SABBOTA: I never made the statement that --
PINSKY: Oh, I heard you just say that K2 may have been one of several factors that were involved in his rage.
SABBOTA: I said, well -- no, I`m not saying it was. By the way your lead story came through, at least to me, was that that`s the only factor and it wasn`t.
SABBOTA: There are many factors which led to the argument which resulted in the killing. I don`t blame it only on K2 or Spice. There was his drug abuse, there was the fact he was on probation, there was the fact he was out of control. Those are many other factors besides the K2 or the Spice.
I`m not an advocate of K2 or Spice, because anybody can buy it.
PINSKY: That`s right.
SABOTTA: As you were well-aware --
PINSKY: Go ahead.
SABOTTA: As you`re well aware, it`s not a schedule one or two or three narcotic.
PINSKY: Not at this point.
SABOTTA: Anybody can buy it.
PINSKY: Not at this point and not in most states. That`s right.
SABOTTA: Well, in Michigan, there`s a movement there to make it legal. We`ll see if that occurs.
PINSKY: Right. So, listen, that is why this story caught our attention. This is something I`ve seen devastating results from.
And so, we are going to for our viewers` sake really dig into this a little bit.
I don`t know if you remember, Jane, when Demi Moore had the seizure- like phenomenon. I re-reviewed the transcript on that. And it was her daughter who was talking to the 911 operator. She said, she smoked an incense -- something like an incense. It was code, may or may not have been what she was smoking. But it`s code for this stuff.
Well, actually, I`ve got the bath salts here which is even worse. But it`s code for this stuff.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Suffice it to say, it`s trending.
PINSKY: It`s trending and it does cause seizures. It does cause uncontrolled movements.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Jerome.
SABOTTA: My understanding is it also causes people to become psychotic which is a loss of contact with reality then they act out. I can tell you in my case, back in March, the police were called to the house because he was out of control. The situation got diffused and the grandmother didn`t want to press charges and had the police go away so to speak. Whether that was caused by K2 or Spice, I don`t know.
I know this young man has been troubled for a period of time, he was in an alternative school and he was involved in the use of drugs. And I`ve heard, whether it`s true or not, one of the news stations did a story in Michigan, I think it was Channel 4, that there was a Spice Club --
SABOTTA: -- that was operating out of that alternative school. Now, whether that`s true or not, I don`t know. You`d have to check with Channel 4.
PINSKY: I want to dig in right now and I want to take calls from our viewers, see what their point of view is on all this.
Karen in Illinois, what do you got for me?
KAREN, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Well, back in June of 2011, my son went to the store with his friend. They went to the mall. And this is before this product hit the news in Illinois. And they saw the product and they had a conversation that it must be safe because it`s legal and marijuana was illegal, so they concluded it must be safer than marijuana.
PINSKY: And, Karen, I`ve got to say, right there, and, Jane, you back me up on this. The idea of the drug being good because it`s legal or bad because it`s illegal is ridiculous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: People are O.D. for legal prescription drugs, as you know, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: How about good old alcohol? That`s legal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course. Yes. So, the fact that it`s legal simply means that you can get it and not go to jail.
PINSKY: That`s right.
But, Karen, what happened?
KAREN: In the kids` perspective, they go to the store, they see this stuff sold everywhere. And back in June of 2011, we didn`t hear any news reports about it being dangerous in Illinois.
PINSKY: But, Karen, what happened, what happened with your son?
KAREN: Well, his friend bought it. They smoked it. His friend dropped him off. He looked fine at the time. Fifteen minutes later he called his brother and said, "Justin, I smoked that legal stuff and I`m freaking out and my heart is pounding."
KAREN: And his brother said, "Lay down, take a shower, you`ll be OK."
KAREN: Well, he wasn`t OK. Half an hour later, he got into his car, he drove 100 miles an hour. People were reporting him driving through town at 100 miles an hour.
PINSKY: So sorry.
KAREN: He did not brake when the road came to an end. He went through a house --
PINSKY: Oh, my gosh.
KAREN: -- and he died on impact.
PINSKY: I`m so sorry, Karen. But I -- listen, I don`t know what to say except thank you for sharing this story because it is a -- hopefully, it will save other lives -- other moms or kids that are listening to this story, as a cautionary tale.
And it`s no fooling. People get very self-destructive when they do this drug and they get violent toward others sometimes. I`m not saying everyone that smokes Spice is going to go nuts on us, but we don`t know the full effect of this drug. There`s even been some suggestion there may be carcinogenic qualities, cancer-causing qualities of the drug. It`s an unexplored territory, guys. Don`t put that stuff in your body.
All right. Thank you, guys.
Coming up, a father who says synthetic cannabis, synthetic marijuana killed his son.
Plus, I want to show you this. I walked out on the street. My staff went up and bought me some of this. I thought, wow, if you guys can do this, I want to do it, too.
Grabbed the camera, went up there, went up to Hollywood boulevard. And there`s on shortage of -- there`s the footage right now. You want to take a look at up on the screen there. Show them that picture. There we are.
That`s my buddy. He sold me Spice. That`s Salvia scent. He wanted to sell me that, too.
Do you know what that is, Jane?
MITCHELL-VELEZ: I`ve heard of it. Thank God I haven`t used anything mood-altering for 17 years.
PINSKY: Congratulations. I`m so proud of you. I don`t want to ruin it tonight.
Anyway, I`m going to show you how wildly easy it is to get some of this stuff. Stay with us.
PINSKY: Welcome back.
I`m going to get right to your calls. But, first, a reminder to parents -- we`re dedicating this part of the show to some new substances that are out there. I dare say they`re not new. You need to be worrying about them. They are everywhere.
It`s been banned in some states. But it is legal in most. It is cheap. It is easy to get. I`ll show you how easy it was for me to get this stuff.
We`re talking about K2 and Spice, which is a synthetic marijuana. Really, it`s all sort of called Spice. K2 is a brand of Spice. And it is what, in fact, is alleged to have killed my guest`s son.
Michael Rozga`s son, David, was 18 when he died.
Michael, can you tell us what happened?
MICHAEL ROZGA, SON DIED FROM SYNTHETIC MARIJUANA: David just graduated from high school the week before, and he was out of town and came back. A week after he graduated, went to his friend`s house. And a couple of his friends had purchased K2 before the weekend, and these boys had never heard of it before.
And went to the house, smoked a substance, and very shortly thereafter, David started getting real agitated. So, they took him outside and kind of tried to walk him around and try to sober him up so to speak. And David started talking, not making a lot of sense, saying he felt like he was in hell.
ROZGA: And about 45 minutes later or so, he seemed to be calming down, and he was tired. He had just traveled six hours to get back into town.
And as opposed to coming back, he had taken a nap. He ended up coming home and shooting himself.
PINSKY: Oh, Michael, I`m so sorry.
I mean, this -- you know, these, Jane, are not addiction stories. This is abuse stories. These are not kids that are addicts, although sometimes they are. They`re trying to get around drug screens. They`re cannabis users regularly and they`re substituting to deal with the drug test.
But this is a kid who clearly was not and was just using with friends and he ends up agitated, out of his mind, and then harms himself.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They don`t even have a chance to become addicts because the first time is deadly. And that`s what`s so horrifying about this.
You know, it reminds me of when I was younger and I saw some people using LSD and I said, I don`t want to try it because they were having a bad trip. I said I never want to try that, and thank God I didn`t, because who knows what could have happened -- that one time only.
PINSKY: Well, LSD -- what I worry about is more how it affects the brain`s chemistry afterwards. We just don`t really know with K2 or Spice whether it has residuals.
Michael, do you any final have a message to parents out there or the kids who are experimenting with this stuff?
ROZGA: Well, the parents, I just say, we`re in an environment today where we need to talk to our kids about things we don`t know anything about. Things are coming on the scene so quickly. And these substances are being sold under false pretenses, as you point out. Your K2 and Spices, your synthetics cannabinoids are typically marketed as incense.
PINSKY: Yes, and, Michael --
ROZGA: Those are typically bath salts and so forth.
PINSKY: I actually got some of that. I`m opening bath salts right now that I purchased. And I want to show you exactly -- here they are. They look just like --
PINSKY: Like crack.
Watch this footage. I want to show you just how easy it was to buy. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m interested in buying some Spice.
SRINIVAS, SMOKE SHOP EMPLOYEE: Sure. These are the spices we basically have. As long as, I`m guessing you`re 18 and over.
SRINIVAS: I`m supposed to check with you.
SRINIVAS: If you can show me an ID, that would be great.
PINSKY: Everybody gets checked no matter what. I got carded.
SRINIVAS: Awesome. This is a one gram spice. These are one gram spices.
PINSKY: Are they the same thing?
SRINIVAS: They`re all slightly different blends. They`re from different companies. They use different blends.
Now, basically what Spice is, is an amalgamation of a lot of different herbs. You have damiana leaves, lettuce opium, skull cap, catnip.
PINSKY: And you smoke it?
SRINIVAS: This is sold as an incense.
SRINIVAS: So, you`re not -- it`s not supposed to be for human consumption.
PINSKY: People to smoke it.
SRINIVAS: Once they take it out of the shop --
PINSKY: They`re on their own?
SRINIVAS: They`re on their own, they do what they want.
PINSKY: So I`m going to smoke some.
SRINIVAS: I wouldn`t recommend it. But it`s really not for human consumption. It`s used for aroma therapy. I would like for you to burn it in the house.
PINSKY: So, what`s a difference between K2 and Spice?
SRINIVAS: K2 is just a kind of Spice.
PINSKY: Yes. And K2 really included the JWH.
SRINIVAS: The JWH, that was the original chemical there was there. Before the JWH, it was something else.
PINSKY: Now what is it?
SRINIVAS: No idea. That`s a reason we tell people not to consume it.
PINSKY: I don`t need for a lot of aroma therapy. This small thing will do. Let me buy that.
SRINIVAS: You got it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes, he doesn`t know what`s in it. Yet kids are consuming this and smoking it.
Let`s go to calls. Vera in Alabama -- Vera.
Valerie in Louisiana. Hi, Valerie.
VALERIE, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
VALERIE: Hi. I wanted to express to you how severe this withdrawal is from this drug.
PINSKY: Oh, interesting.
VALERIE: I`m currently in day six, I believe.
VALERIE: I`m a recovering methadone addict.
PINSKY: Oh, my goodness, Valerie.
VALERIE: I started smoking this as kind of a maintenance type thing.
VALERIE: And became heavily addicted very quickly. Because of the legality issues, they started, you know, busting all the stores in the town where I live. And so I had to quit.
PINSKY: So I`ve heard that the withdrawal can be very much like an opiate. Irritability, flulike symptoms, things like that.
VALERIE: It was not nearly what methadone was. It`s certainly comparable.
PINSKY: Interesting, Valerie. Thank you for that call.
Methadone is worst, though, Jane. To say it`s (INAUDIBLE) say it`s comparable, that is telling you something. I did not know that until just now. So, we`re all kind of learning something here.
I`ve got to go break, guys.
Michael, thank you so much for joining us. My heart goes out to you, my friend.
Coming up, Jane, what can be done to prevent kids from getting their hands on some of these chemicals. I`m going to speak to a congresswoman, Mary Bono -- have you talked to Mary Bono?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, I love her.
PINSKY: I love Mary Bono, too.
And she is with us by phone. I want to talk to her about what we can do to clamp down on this, so it`s not so easily accessible. As you hear, something was happening in Louisiana. It needs to be widespread.
Calls after this.
PINSKY: We have been discussing a legal drug known as Spice, one brand is K2. Storeowners are able to sell it legally. They label it as herbal incense to I guess mask its intended purpose. They also say it doesn`t have JWH, which is in fact the cannabinoid compound in there that makes it like cannabis. And it causes agitation, irritability, self- destructive behavior, even seizuring.
On the phone to discuss this, from California, Congresswoman Mary Bono Mack.
Mary, are you aware of this problem? What is being done about it?
REP. MARY BONO MACK (R), CALIFORNIA (via telephone): I am, Dr. Drew. Thank you for having me on.
A number of members of Congress have been focused on this issue. We`ve passed a bill out of the House. I have to tell you, it`s tough to educate a lot of members about the severity of this problem. We`re working hard on that.
PINSKY: It is something that we`re -- I think the reason we`re doing the story is that, in fact, some of the lethal consequences are beginning to sort of come forward.
Corri in Texas. Corri, what do you have for me?
CORRI, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Dr. Drew.
CORRI: I absolutely adore you. I love your book, "Mirror Effect."
PINSKY: Thank you, Corri. Very kind.
CORRI: I`m calling in to say I`ve had a couple of real bad experiences with Spice. I`m 25. A few years ago it was just something college kids were doing because it was legal. You think legal, nothing wrong with it.
PINSKY: But, Corri, I`ve got to tell you something. My kids are in college. She says, it`s something college kids do. What are you going to do? A chill goes down my spine.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to ask, what`s the high like? I mean, what`s so seductive about it?
CORRI: You know, there`s nothing seductive about it. It`s relaxing. It`s a very uncomfortable upper. It feels like an upper, causes hallucination, severe paranoia. I mean, I`m scared. Terrified that something bad was going to happen.
PINSKY: Corri, I really appreciate you sharing the story.
I want to ask Mary -- I`ve got about 20 seconds, Mary. Is there anything we can do to support you in the Congress?
BONO MACK: Absolutely. Continue raising the issue. You`re doing such a great job of that, Dr. Drew. And I appreciate it very much.
We need to keep talking about it as a country. The first step to recovery is to come out of denial. We have to do that.
PINSKY: Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Mary.
And Jane and I are a big fan of yours as we well know. Please come visit us on the set again soon and keep up your great work.
BONO MACK: Thanks, both of you.
PINSKY: Thanks, Mary.
You got a special coming up on Monday. It`s Memorial Day, right?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re going to love this, Dr. Drew, because I know you care about your world. We`re going to show our viewers how to save money and save this planet for their kids and grandkids.
And so, I`m going to go dumpster diving and show all the food that`s wasted. I`m going to take you to a party that`s an environmental party. I`m going to take you to the co-op --
PINSKY: My favorite thing is dumpster diving with Jane. That`s one of my favorite television moments.
So, we`re going to dumpster dive. What am I going to find in those dumpsters?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good food. Good food that shouldn`t be thrown to waste.
PINSKY: You mean like going behind restaurants and stores and things like that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, exactly. We`re diving right into the garbage.
PINSKY: Not we. You. Camera`s going after you. It`s one of my favorite things.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re invited, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: All right. That could be fun. Have you already filmed it? Or I`m going to have to join you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We do it often. We`re called freegans. Next time.
PINSKY: All right. I`m going to join you on one of those, next time.
We`ll some take spice and some bath salts and we`ll go dumpster diving. Fantastic.
Jane, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it as always.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, Dr. Drew. Always great to be one.
PINSKY: Next up, a woman claimed she was fired because -- get this -- she dressed too sexy. She was too sexy for her job. Too sexy for a sales job selling lingerie. That`s right. You`re going to meet this woman and her attorney, guess who, Gloria Allred, after the break.
And Jane leaves me. As I said, we`re going to sort of light up some spice here just as an incense.
More calls, too, after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): You`re just too hot for this office. That`s what this woman says her bosses said before firing her. She claims they wanted her to tape down her breasts and wear a bathrobe over her clothing. What is she doing about it? Ask for yourself. She`s with me live taking your calls. 1-855-373-7395.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (on-camera): A lingerie employee in New York City recently got fired. Her bosses felt that her provocative and revealing attire was too much. The 29-year-old claims she was fired from her temporary job, temporary job, after one week there. We called her employer, Native Intimates, for a response. They had no comment.
Joining us now for her first interview since her press conference, Lauren Odes. She`s in New York. Thank you, Lauren, for joining us. And I also have here next to me, her attorney, Gloria Allred. Now, Lauren, your employers, apparently, asked you a couple of times to dress differently.
And by the way, I always like to point out why I`m doing these stories. For me, I know Gloria, this is your whole career about empowering women, but I have a special thing about that, too. And a fact that a woman -- let`s show Lauren. I mean, this is a lovely young woman who dresses appropriately.
I mean, she`s -- and she provokes something in somebody, and all of a sudden, she has to dress differently. Men don`t have to deal with this, right?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Right. And Lauren, of course, alleges that she was also told that it was for her own safety that she needed to dress differently because the men might not be able to resist her and that would present a safety issue.
PINSKY: Lauren, how did you respond to that?
LAUREN ODES, FIRED FOR BEING "TOO HOT"? I didn`t respond. I mean, I responded how anyone else would respond with a lot of embarrassment, a lot of humiliation. I really didn`t think that it was going to come down to that, putting a bright red bathrobe on me and telling me that, you know, to tape down my breasts or wear my boyfriend`s sweatshirt. So, I didn`t respond too well to it.
PINSKY: I`m wondering what made you take legal action. Had you always had sort of a -- I mean, did you feel that, you know, these issues needed to be made an issue of?
ODES: Yes. I kind of, like, after this happened, I kind of wanted to speak out for all women.
ODES: And, you know, anyone that gets discriminated against how they look or the size of their breasts or body. So, I took action and I contacted Gloria, because I knew that she would be the right person to contact.
PINSKY: All right. Let`s take some calls and see what -- OK. I got you. Let`s see what our viewers are saying about this. Christine in Georgia, what do you got for me?
CHRISTINE, GEORGIA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
CHRISTINE: I`m kind of, you know, I can relate to these issues. I`ve had this problem, myself, and I come from a conservative Jewish family. So, you know, I can see both ends of the issue. I think really a middle ground is really the way to go, where, you know, she shouldn`t have to wear a shmata, but she shouldn`t be flaunting.
You know, these are religious people. They`re very religious. They make their -- their wives have to wear wigs and be very modest. So --
PINSKY: Christine, Christine, let`s clarify this for viewers who maybe aren`t that familiar with the story. So, the employers, Gloria, were orthodox Jewish --
ALLRED: Orthodox Jewish males. And I might add that Lauren is also a Jewish woman.
ALLRED: But we contend that the employer does not have a right to impose his religious beliefs about how women should dress on his employees. This is not a synagogue. This is a business workplace.
PINSKY: And Lauren, did you have any sense when you walked into this workplace that this would be the kind of response you might get given the culture you`re walking into?
ODES: No. Absolutely not. Like, I asked what the dress code was when I was first hired. They saw me when I was first hired. And, they basically told me to just look around and see what everyone else was wearing. So --
PINSKY: Can I pull the curtain back for a second? This idea that these men couldn`t control themselves. I mean, that is -- that is a "Saturday Night Live" skit. You know what I mean? That is so ridiculous. I can`t even believe they said that.
ALLRED: Right. And the idea that, somehow, she should have to sit in the office with a red bathrobe over her, she was wearing --
PINSKY: Because the men --
PINSKY: -- could not control themselves.
ALLRED: You saw what she was wearing. That was what she was wearing the day that she was terminated. She wore that at the news conference. That black dress, perfectly modest with a little cover-up over it and black boots.
PINSKY: Careful. I may not be able to go on with this show. I may not be able to control myself, Lauren. Be careful. Darken the screen, Gloria. I`m not sure if I`m going to be able to handle this. Let me take a call from a male. Michael in Nevada. What do you say?
MICHAEL, NEVADA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
MICHAEL: I was just wondering -- I`ve been hearing about for a little bit -- what exactly was your job? Have you ever thought about coming to Las Vegas where you would be appreciated and highly paid? Or you know --
PINSKY: Now, hold on, now, you know, I appreciate the humor, Michael. But, by the same token, Gloria, back me up on this. We`re talking about a really serious issue, and it quickly goes into salacious kind of content, doesn`t it? Quickly.
ALLRED: Well, yes. And her job, basically she was doing data entry and coordinating the shipment of samples to customers, and she was off towards the back of the office. She really didn`t have much --
PINSKY: Where a guy could slip in there. Who knows? He can attack (ph) come in with a cloak and attack her.
ALLRED: Well, I mean, I don`t know. But, you know, there are laws that prohibit gender and religious discrimination. That`s what this case is all about. No woman should be discriminated against because of the size or shape of her breasts, because she`s attractive, because men find her too appealing. That`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: I want to go to Nikki in California -- Nikki.
NIKKI, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Hi, Gloria. I`m a huge fan. I read the story online this morning, and I had read that they said your boobs were a dangerous distraction? I guess my -- I don`t know if it`s a question, more as a statement, like, weren`t her boobs there when she was being interviewed for this job?
PINSKY: That`s a good question, Nikki. They were there. They weren`t put in subsequent to being employed. OK. Fantastic. Gloria, I have trouble taking these guys seriously that were sort of ostracizing her. It reads (ph) too much.
ALLRED: Well, I mean, I don`t know. I hope that they`re going to learn from this. Apparently, one of the newspapers went over and interviewed a man over there, not the owner necessarily, unidentified man who said, well, the men are married men. OK. So, what? They`ve got to control themselves.
I think it was (INAUDIBLE) recently -- some years -- not recently, but some years ago that said, you know, as to rapists, you don`t give a curfew for the victims or for women. If guys can`t control themselves, they`re the ones who should be limited, not the women.
PINSKY: OK. Fair enough. Betsy in Maryland -- Betsy.
BETSY, MARYLAND: Hey, you know, I watch her on TV now, and, you know, she`s tilting her head back and pushing her breasts out and stuff. I mean, what do you expect from people, you know, doing that?
PINSKY: Betsy, address Lauren directly. She`s right here for you. What do you want to say to her?
BETSY: I mean, what do you want from people that, you know, look at you and you`re pushing your head back and you`re, you know, pushing your breasts out and what are we supposed to expect from you?
ODES: I mean, what does it matter how I`m sitting? Basically, I got discriminated against because how my body --
BETSY: -- right now is what you`re doing.
ODES: It`s not about -- OK, well, right now, I`m on live television. What would you do? You know, when you see yourself on film? So --
PINSKY: She`s just -- she would beg to say that she`s just trying to look good on camera.
ODES: I`m just trying to look -- right, exactly. This is how I would like to look on camera. So, I`m not pushing my boobs out by any means. I`m just sitting in a certain angle.
ALLRED: I think that people who are boobs are the ones who discriminate.
PINSKY: Kelly, what do you got -- why does this go to humor so fast? It`s hard to take it seriously.
KELLY: -- and I have worked in a warehouse. I do know that`s not an appropriate dress for a warehouse, OK?
PINSKY: What she`s wearing now? Well, Kelly, Kelly --
KELLY: Jeans and sneakers and sweatshirt or T-shirt.
PINSKY: Kelly, what she`s wearing now or what you saw at the press conference?
KELLY: At the press conference. That`s ridiculous for warehouse, I`m sorry. But, my only question to her is just, did you go shopping while you were on the clock? Because if not, then they had no right to fire you.
PINSKY: Did you go shopping --
ODES: No. I didn`t go shopping while I was on the clock.
ALLRED: And she also was not working --
ODES: Absolutely not.
ALLRED: And she was also not working in a warehouse. She was working in a showroom for women`s lingerie where they sold thongs, where they sold braziers, where they sold, you know, other undergarments, boy shorts with the words "hot" on the back. So, in any event, she was dressed appropriately for that office setting.
PINSKY: Kendall in South Carolina.
KENDALL, SOUTH CAROLINA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
KENDALL: I just want to say that I think she looks awesome. I mean, what is the world coming to --
ODES: Thank you.
KENDALL: -- to where -- I mean, you just can`t wear what you want to wear now? I mean, I just think you look great.
ODES: Thank you so much.
KENDALL: I`m going through the (inaudible). I`m being discriminated with DSS, and possibly losing my children. So, I can really relate to you where you`re coming from.
PINSKY: I think, although -- thank you, Kendall. And Lauren, I think that`s a decent place to leave this conversation. But, you know, there`s a lot of complex issues here. There`s religious issues, there`s how to run one`s own business, you know, and be left alone by the government. right?
ALLRED: Actually, I think the legal issues are very simple. That, you know, employers have a right to have a reasonable dress code, but, first of all, they didn`t have a dress code until after she was terminated.
PINSKY: But still be reasonable.
ALLRED: Reasonable. But in any event, she was dressed in appropriate business attire for the office setting. So, they can`t discriminate against her on account of her gender.
PINSKY: Is there something that -- I`m just (INAUDIBLE) if there`s some takeaway here, because we goofed a little bit on this.
ALLRED: Well, I mean, you know, they said she was too hot for the office.
PINSKY: I know.
ALLRED: We have that on the recordings.
ODES: Those were not my words. Can I add in that those were not my words?
PINSKY: And my point is, this is not a funny issue when women are discriminated against.
ALLRED: Well, thank you. Yes. I agree.
PINSKY: So, how do we make sure that this doesn`t float away from the issue at hand? Summarize it.
ALLRED: Yes. And I`m very proud of Lauren that she spoke out and that she`s doing something about it, that we filed a complaint of gender and religious discrimination with the United States Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, because it does have an economic impact. She`s terminated from her job. She needs her job as many other women need their job.
And that is why we have to do something about it. Women have rights, and I`m glad when they stand up for those rights, assert them. And we`re going to see that her rights are protected.
PINSKY: Thank you, Gloria. Thank you, Lauren.
PINSKY: Next up, Christie Brinkley has a question for me. I`m taking her question and your calls after the break.
PINSKY: OK. Welcome back. It is time for your calls about anything, but first, I`ve got a video question from one of the first supermodels. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE BRINKLEY, MODEL, ACTRESS: Hey, Dr. Drew. It`s Christie Brinkley. And, you may have heard I`m doing a lot of dancing in Chicago, and dancers are always like straining muscles and all of that. What should we put on first? Ice or heat?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I think Christie and our last guest on the screen, Lauren, consulted with one another about posing for the camera -- just saying. Oh, goodness. Christie, ice probably the best thing. Ice decreases inflammation. Heat -- you can alternate ice and heat. All things being equal. Ice is where you want to go first.
And, you know, the MMA fighters, they go into ice baths, and then, they go into hot showers and they go back in the ice bath. And some people feel that increases the recovery. So, you`re going to be working very hard. Chicago, I love that musical. Congratulation on that. Julie in Florida, what do you have for me?
JULIE, FLORIDA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
JULIE: I would d like to know if you can tell me anything about very painful, exploding headaches that are brought on by sex.
PINSKY: OK. It sounds peculiar, Julie, but that actually is a rather common problem. It`s called post coital headaches. They -- it`s somebody -- I think one of my camera -- you have it? Yes. Well, the camera guys got it. It`s not at all uncommon. The problem is that you need to see a neurologist to be sure it`s not something more serious like an intracranial bleed or a true migraine phenomenon -- other things that could be a little more serious.
Vast majority of the time, though, this is something quite benign but quite uncomfortable and quite troubling. It does have some treatments. So, you`ll want to see a neurologist about that. I would say don`t worry about it for right now, but do get a proper workup. It is probably just these post poital headaches that are so, in fact, common.
OK. I`ve got Lee in Michigan -- Lee.
LEE, MICHIGAN: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Lee.
LEE: I`m a 50-year-old single lady involved in long-term sexual relationships have changed for me. I feel very good about giving my partner pleasure, but I don`t want any back. Being fuss rather than stimulated (ph). It makes me feel angry. What`s going on?
PINSKY: Anger. You have anger in response to any kind of close touch. Is that right?
PINSKY: And everything else OK biologically the same with you? You feel the same?
PINSKY: And are you on any medication?
PINSKY: And do you have any trauma history, anything where closeness could evoke discomfort?
LEE: No. No, I don`t.
PINSKY: No sexual trauma or anything like that growing up?
LEE: None that I would remember.
PINSKY: OK. And your relationships have, otherwise, been stable?
LEE: Yes. I have long-term relationships.
PINSKY: Lee, I don`t know what that would really necessarily be. That`s something you`d have to sit down and talk to somebody about at length and kind of explore where that`s coming from. It`s not the first time I`ve heard it, I have to tell you, but it`s not as though it`s something that I can say is characteristic of something specific or has some very specific treatment that you can do.
You can certainly try to contain yourself and, you know, take yourself by the hand and realize touch and closeness and intimacy are really important things, particularly, as you get older, and maybe you can kind of see what`s being evoked and where that`s coming from by just sitting there quietly and thinking to yourself.
Cathy in Canada, what do you have for me?
CATHY, CANADA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
CATHY: I was in a long-term abusive marriage for 24 years which ended in divorce. It`s been 14 years since.
PINSKY: How old are you now?
CATHY: I`m 63.
PINSKY: OK. You sound shaky. Are you OK?
CATHY: Yes. I`m just nervous.
PINSKY: Just nervous. OK. Relax. So, long relationship, long time ago, it was bad. What`s the question?
CATHY: Oh, I still have a lot of thoughts about him on a pretty much a daily basis, and I dream about him. And I just want to know how to get him out of my head.
PINSKY: Is it resentment you`re having or is it preoccupations like you want to be back with him?
CATHY: Could be both. I pretty much -- yes. I`d say both.
CATHY: But I just feel like there`s unresolved questions and answers and --
PINSKY: OK. Yes. OK. Yes. All right. Listen. Well, have you had any treatment for that experience? For the domestic violence?
CATHY: I have seen different psychiatrists but never really got deep into that. Shared it with a girlfriend.
PINSKY: Well, how about like even a group setting with other women that have been through these kinds of things? Sometimes, that can be very healing and very effective. Did you have an abusive dad or mom back in childhood?
CATHY: My mother said that he was somewhat abusive, but we never really saw it as kids.
PINSKY: So, your dad never hit you or was violent?
CATHY: Oh, no. He was just a body in the home. That`s all.
PINSKY: Oh. And you never saw him do that to your mom, huh?
PINSKY: OK. Same recommendations, back into treatment, group potentially.
I got to go. More questions, more calls after the break.
PINSKY: Again, taking calls here at 1-855-DrDrew5. And welcome back to the program. I`ve got Allen in Pennsylvania -- Allen.
ALLEN, PENNSYLVANIA: Hey, Dr. Drew. How are you?
PINSKY: I`m good, Allen. Thank you. Are you there?
ALLEN: I`m here.
PINSKY: Good. Go right ahead.
ALLEN: I had a question about bullying, and it`s been happening to me for a while now. And I was wondering if you can give me tips on how it can be prevented.
PINSKY: How old are you?
ALLEN: I am 14. I`m in middle school in eighth grade.
PINSKY: Wow! You sound 27. Allen, good for you. Are you a big kid?
ALLEN: I`m about, I think, 5`3".
PINSKY: I guess what I`m asking is, are you unusual? Here`s what happens with kids. And this is not excusing their behavior, but what tends to happen, if there`s anything different about the kid, the other kids go on the attack. So, is there anything about you other than you sounding like an adult male, anything else different about you?
ALLEN: Well, like I say, I`m growing a lot of facial hair a lot faster than usual.
PINSKY: Yes. So, I think other kids are, perhaps, threatened by you and jealous. Again, my camera crew is ringing in with a lot of shaking of the head. Did you go through something like that? No. No. Yes, yes. No.
Well, the fact is that, if you are in any way different, like, you know who goes through this a lot is women as they go through puberty, if their body is sort of -- they`re coming into their body, let`s say, just like Lauren, other women go on the attack.
So, Allen, I will tell you, I wish I had some great strategy for dealing with bullying, because it`s something that is massive problem in this country, both in flesh and person, and obviously, in social media. The most important way to deal with it is to keep important people around you, have adequate support.
So, whatever is coming through doesn`t really harm you in any way. And go ahead and stand up for yourself. It`s not OK for people to bully. And I think you`re the kind of guy, it seems to me, you`d be the kind of guy that might just be able to speak up and be direct with them and tell them, no, it`s not OK. It`s not OK.
ALLEN: I actually am the type of person I would speak up against someone. Like, if I see someone being bullied, themselves, I will be like, you got to leave them alone, like, what did they ever do to you?
PINSKY: That`s right. Make sure you have people in your corner with you when you do something like that. It can feel a little lonely by yourself. Again, speak up, but don`t -- some of these people can be avoided, too, I would say as well. So, thank you for that call, Allen.
Ashley in North Carolina? Ashley?
ASHLEY, NORTH CAROLINA: Yes. Hey, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hey, Ashley.
ASHLEY: I had a question (INAUDIBLE) incense earlier.
ASHLEY: I have a question on the bath salts.
PINSKY: What about the bath salt? Yes. In fact, I`ve got some bath salts. Can you guys get me that bath salt? I bought some of that, too. What`s the question? I`ve got less than a minute.
ASHLEY: Basically, what`s the effect in -- while you`re on it, and then, does it have lifelong effects after you`re --
PINSKY: Well, bath salt is related to sort of MDMA. Here it is here. I was able to buy this stuff at the smoke shop up the street. It`s ridiculous. This stuff is incredibly dangerous. People get terribly violent. It`s, in my opinion, worse than the K2 and the Spice, because it`s so predictably going to put people into an altered state. It`s like methamphetamine meets MDMA. And, people get so wild on this that it can seem so completely different and disconnected from reality that -- that`s K2.
No, no, this is the bath salts I`m holding in my hand. They can be seemed so disconnected. It seems like they`re damaged like there`s something wrong with their brain, which there is during the time that they`re using. But, for the most past, we believe people will reconstitute if they stop using.
If there are long-term effects, we`re not really fully -- we don`t really know for sure as yet. Probably much like methamphetamine.
Got to go. See you next time.