Return to Transcripts main page
Interview with Octomom
Aired May 28, 2012 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: All right. Now, here we go. We`re on call for the full hour.
Octomom, Nadya Suleman, is battling accusations that some people are saying she`s an unfit mom. Is it true?
You`re going to ask -- I`m going to give you guys a chance to ask her yourself. She`s taking your questions live with me. Call us at 1-855- DRDREW5. That`s -- she said, oh, shoot. Oh, shoot is right. We`ll let our callers at you. That`s 855-3737395.
And later in the show, John Walsh turns his little boy`s murder into a campaign for justice. He`s going to be here with us. And you`ll have a chance to talk to the most legendary host of "America`s Most Wanted."
So let`s get started.
PINSKY: All right. You know her as Octomom. I know her as Nadya Suleman.
She would like us to forget the Octomom character permanently. I`ve seen her say she`d rather that character that we played in the media be smashed. And she`s had to defend herself against new accusations she`s an unfit mother and that the kids aren`t safe.
Welfare workers apparently visited her home this week and there were claims she and her 14 children were living in a situation that was not safe and not adequate.
And tonight, she`s also accused of spending more than $500 on her hair -- hold on, I`ll give you a chance. She`s wanting to get in here -- all the while, receiving $2,000 a month in food stamps, which by the way, I have recommended that she`d take, because when you hear what she has to spend on food every month for the 14 kids, there`s no other way to do it.
My Facebook and Twitter accounts are blowing up with questions and so harsh comments. I`m going to start -- you`re saying, shoot. But let`s just take it on.
All right. Diana in Facebook says, "I want to know why she has no plumbing or clothes on her kids while she`s spending hundreds of dollars on her hair and God knows what else. If she`s truly locking them in rooms to keep control, someone needs to step in."
And Jill writes, "Why on earth would she barricade her children in a room away from her by propping up a door against the handle? Not that I believe there is an excuse for that."
And you have responses for that.
NADYA SULEMAN, OCTOMON: Yes, none of that is accurate.
PINSKY: None of it is accurate.
SULEMAN: The kids play with the doors. They play with clothes, they`re -- actually I sleep on the floor and the kids have all access to the beds everywhere. And the big kids put that -- because it`s not closing. The door doesn`t close.
SULEMAN: They put the chair there so they won`t go in and lock themselves in. They`re all over the place. But they`re so obedient.
PINSKY: I`ve seen them. I`ve been to your house. The cleaning service through life changes we arranged for you once a week showed up. That`s one of the things I wanted for you.
SULEMAN: Ironically, everyone made --
PINSKY: That what was when ABC News was there, right? OK. They`ll be here all year. We wanted that for you.
You let something slip out here that was not the case when I visited your home. You`re sleeping on the floor.
SULEMAN: Now I am because I`m migrating all the kids upstairs slowly.
PINSKY: They were already in your bed when I was visiting.
SULEMAN: The big kids were and the twins were. Well, now, it`s like seriously all the eight, now, I`m like four at a time, I`m bringing them upstairs. They`re in the boys bunk beds --
PINSKY: There`s no place for you to sleep?
SULEMAN: Right now I`m temporarily crunched on the crease of my bed, with four or five other kids or on the floor. There`s more room on the floor.
PINSKY: You seem a little more --
SULEMAN: I`m accepting of everything.
PINSKY: Well, beaten by all this.
SULEMAN: No, I`m happy. I`m happy just because the kids, the little ones, they`re just thriving and that`s all that matters.
PINSKY: What about the Child Protective Services?
SULEMAN: OK. What happened was, ironically the plumbing from the beginning when I move there --
PINSKY: Child Protective Services came out. Stay focused here. They felt there was no problem. The police showed up. Social services show up. Things were adequate.
SULEMAN: Yes. The toilet situation, one toilet backed up and was not working. Little kids wouldn`t listen to me. They kept going. One day. And the next the plumber came out. Lady plumber.
PINSKY: OK. Lady plumber?
SULEMAN: Yes, she was great. They found a harmonica in there.
PINSKY: All right. So that`s why the toilet was blocked up.
All right. So let`s get some of our callers, see what they want to say. You ready for this?
SULEMAN: Can I defend a little bit?
PINSKY: Defend as much as you want.
SULEMAN: That was -- it seems so much money, but I -- the friend --
PINSKY: This is the haircut now.
SULEMAN: I owed her so much from so many other haircuts.
We`re talking like 29 haircuts.
PINSKY: Why does she report you as somebody spending excessive amounts of money --
SULEMAN: We figured out later on --
PINSKY: You were set up.
PINSKY: Let`s get to callers. Nancy in New Jersey. Go ahead, Nancy.
NANCY, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Nancy.
NANCY: I, myself, am infuriated with --
PINSKY: With Nadya?
NANCY: -- spending $500 on your hair. I mean, there are people every day struggling to get by while collecting welfare. I just think it`s -- I don`t know how in the world you can justify spending $500 on your hair if you`re collecting welfare. It`s just -- it`s infuriating.
PINSKY: OK. Nancy, let me say something about the welfare part. I`ve been trying to get her to get on assistance and she won`t do it. She takes food stamps. I don`t know how she can go forward safely with these kids without them, Nadya. I don`t understand it. We`ve tried lots of things. Nothing`s really worked.
So, the food stamps is something I encourage. But then there`s the $500 on the hair that makes everybody angry.
SULEMAN: I`m angry, too, because of the situation. I -- for two years, I`m going to defend myself. Have to. Two years I was cutting my own hair with a kitchen sheers or whatever I have. I never wear a gown unless I have to do an interview. So, I`m always -- my friend --
PINSKY: Five hundred dollars. Justified, $500 versus $2,000.
SULEMAN: Two hundred fifty dollars was a blowout -- Brazilian blowout and the product she said I had to use to maintain it. The rest of the money was for all the kids` haircuts and prior haircuts I owed my friend.
And, you know, she`s a good hairstylist. Nonetheless, this is inexcusable that she premeditated it, planned to come out, take pictures unbeknownst to me. But I do believe, in consideration, for 29 haircuts, way more than 14, another 14 plus mine, that`s actually -- when you add it all, multiply it all together, that`s from way before I owed her money.
PINSKY: Nancy, why do you get so angry with this stuff? What makes you so -- I understand the money. The taxpayer --
NANCY: Where my anger comes from, too, is that I know people do what they have to do. What my anger comes from, too, there`s already negative stereotypes out there regarding people on welfare. You know, and I think that when an Octomom, Nadya, is pretty well known.
NANCY: And so people read about her. I think when we read about this and read about, like, people, you know, possibly abusing the system, I think it just adds --
PINSKY: You see -- you`re right, Nancy. Great point. You would be perceived better if you just took welfare and took care of the kids with it. You`re entitled to it. There`s 14 kids.
SULEMAN: A few days back -- before the one day my toilet stopped -- a few days back, a friend called me and said, she insisted, insisted she comes out to cut my hair, to do my hair.
PINSKY: You think you`re set up. I know. I get it. You were set up.
SULEMAN: She planned and I was -- it`s hard for me to say no. She was a nice woman, good hairstylist.
PINSKY: But the setup or not, we`re having this conversation about how you plan for the future.
Let`s take more calls.
Jackie in Alaska. Go ahead, Jackie.
JACKIE, CALLER FROM ALASKA: I`m a little angry at the whole setup here that she has, and like Nancy, you know, she`s on welfare, and whatnot --
PINSKY: Jackie, I`m going to interrupt you. She`s not on welfare. She`s taking food stamps.
Hang on a second.
What is your food bill per month?
SULEMAN: Over $4,000.
PINSKY: She has a $4,000 food bill a month. She takes $2,000 in food stamps. There`s no way you could do that on your own without the food stamps.
SULEMAN: Not right now.
PINSKY: I understand it. And what about your house? I mean, is it going to be your house next week?
SULEMAN: Yes, we`re doing something. I can`t disclose the details. I`ll tell you later.
PINSKY: All right. Let`s talk about your kids. Kelly in Texas, you have a question about Nadya`s kids? Kelly?
KELLY, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Drew. Hi, Nadya.
SULEMAN: Hi. How are you?
KELLY: I`m great.
I just wanted to ask you, since the nanny thing didn`t work out --
KELLY: Would you consider doing just respite care for your autistic son and maybe big brother, big sister?
PINSKY: Kelly, hold on.
KELLY: Older kids, get them emotional support out of this crazy house? I`m not saying it`s a crazy house, but that`s --
PINSKY: It`s a crazy -- 14 kids. It`s a crazy house. Although, she -- listen, she has those kids really well-structured. I keep interrupting you.
SULEMAN: I have to say something.
SULEMAN: In regard to my older kids, I agree with you. I have -- because -- especially this is a big reminder, being set up by a friend -- I thought was a friend, just reminding me that I can`t trust anybody but this close circle of friends I have, a handful of them.
They`re the ones, I`m beyond grateful. They help me with my older ones. They take them once every weekend. They have so privileged. They really are.
And in regards to the respite, you know what, my son, Aden, has -- I already signed him up for summer camp. He`s going to be going on all kinds of excursions. He`s at a specialized school where he has so much assistance.
So, everything in nigh life my life revolves around them. They`re my priority.
PINSKY: Of course.
SULEMAN: That`s why I was reluctant when a friend called and said you need to have some style, your hair`s always back, you have no makeup on them. And I kind of -- I get easily influenced. I learned you can`t trust anybody at all.
PINSKY: OK, let`s just add the score up. I`ve been to your house. You run a tight ship. You`re in a remarkable household. You have to. You couldn`t survive without it, not.
Number two, the kids, we established with you in the past that the fertility treatment was a misadventure, it was an accident. You didn`t -- it was a failure.
You also have a severely autistic kid. I mean, just that one child. Just that one child --
SULEMAN: A full time job.
PINSKY: It`s a full-time job.
SULEMAN: You knew what my schedule is like from morning on.
PINSKY: I`ve seen it. And you sleep on the floor. Your house, we`ve given you cleaning services. It was getting bad.
SULEMAN: It helps.
PINSKY: Yes, it does help.
But when you add the score up, it`s sort of an insurmountable situation, overwhelming situation.
SULEMAN: At this point, I think once we`ve already hit rock bottom financially, nothing can get -- all that`s going to go happen is we`re going to go up.
PINSKY: You`re still in your house, Nadya. I`m worried that house is not going to be there next week.
But I`ve got more calls for Nadya after the break, including someone who actually supports Nadya. At 855-DRDREW5.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SULEMAN: In retrospect, would I have made different choices in the past? Knowing now -- knowing then what I know now, I think most people would in any situation. I don`t regret them, because that`s not advantageous to my kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was one of Nadya Suleman`s last appearances on this show, saying she doesn`t regret having her 14 kids, despite financial struggles. She`s here with me in the studio. We`re all taking your calls.
And when watching that little piece of tape, she leaned over and said, "I`m so tired of defending myself." I see you`re tired and a little desperate and you`re tired. Yes.
And you literally -- do you think about it this way? If you just accepted public assistance and not gotten the haircut, you`d be better off?
SULEMAN: No, I won`t. You want to know the truth about public assistance? I refuse the other part --
PINSKY: I know.
SULEMAN: You don`t know -- the peanut they give you, the max, you can have one or 20, $900 a month cash. I refuse the cash because of guilt. I don`t want to take cash. I`m only taking the food stamps.
SULEMAN: There`s not enough money in the world other than the industry that I`m probably going to delve into, dance around, as long as I don`t -- I still -- I repeated this a million times to you. I`m holding on to my deeply indoctrinated morals and values. I`m not going to -- there`s one fine line I`ll never cross.
PINSKY: All right. Well --
SULEMAN: There are certain opportunities I`m going to take.
PINSKY: I`m a multiple parent as well.
PINSKY: I understand the feelings of being overwhelmed and desperate. You are by yourself. I`ve seen your household. I`ve been in your house. You do a remarkable job, but it`s still out of control.
SULEMAN: No, we need a new life. We need a new environment. We need to start over.
And the only option at this point is to take the opportunities that are coming my way.
PINSKY: Money, media again. That scares me when you go down that route because this is a nefarious route. I think that`s what people are reacting to.
You want to kill Octomom. You want Octomom gone. Yet you`re using Octomom to make money.
SULEMAN: I`m going to have to. Temporarily, in order to feed my family and get off food stamps. And people are angry about the food stamps. If you se me out there doing something against -- you are all against, be happy I`ll be off food stamps permanently.
PINSKY: All right.
SULEMAN: There are going to be opportunities I`m going to be accepting.
PINSKY: All right. I have a friend of yours, her name is Rebecca, and she`s on the phone.
And she -- you have something, Rebecca, you`ve got something positive to say about Nadya?
REBECCA MERCADO, NADYA SULEMAN`S FIREND (via telephone): Yes, I actually do. I mean, I just know she works so hard. She doesn`t deserve all this criticism.
I mean, I go over there multiple times a week and the kids are always well taken care of. You know, constantly making them something to eat. She never sits down. I`ve been there for a whole day.
PINSKY: Listen, she scares me, Rebecca. When I see her, the whirling dervish, she in her own household, you can`t imagine how it can be sustained. And that`s what scares me. What`s the plan for the future?
So, why do you think, Rebecca, people get so down on Nadya?
MERCADO: I think --
PINSKY: Rebecca, any opinion?
MERCADO: They think she`s a selfish person and she`s not. She`s -- I mean, just getting to know her on a personal level, she`s so giving and so kind. People don`t see that side. They want to se the person that`s selfish and getting haircuts and all that stuff. That`s not who she is.
You know, I mean, on her day-to-day life, she`s always dressed down, no makeup. She`s so humble. I don`t know why --
PINSKY: All right. For some reason, people -- the Octomom rubs people the wrong way.
SULEMAN: I get under their skin and it doesn`t go away. Right, because I`m from mars.
They don`t understand -- no one can conceptualize how a mom -- if I were with a mate, if I had a significant other from the beginning, I personally believe that would have been a buffer. That would have really - - a lot of this never would have snowballed out of effect because there would have been that, oh, she at least has a husband.
I think a lot of this is biased. They`re biased toward a single mom to have one, let alone four, God forbid 14, are you coocoo?
PINSKY: Are you coocoo?
SULEMAN: Well, you know, if I were, would I have melted down by now?
PINSKY: I don`t understand how you`re going to sustain this.
I`ve got Jennifer on the phone. She is the mother of five, with two sets of twins.
And, Jennifer, as another multiple parent, you`ve got a point of view? Let`s hear what you have to say. Jennifer?
JENNIFER, MOTHER OF FIVE (via telephone): Yes.
PINSKY: I know you`re there. There you are.
Go right ahead. You have multiples and so do I. What do you want to say to Nadya?
JENNIFER: You know, just listening to you talk about, you know, having a husband, things might have been different. I can just say that when my second set of twins were born, I had five kids under 5. And I know what it`s like to run around the house and not stop from sunrise to sundown.
JENNIFER: I personally could not imagine having 14 children and having to do that. I mean, that`s almost three times as what I had in my household. And, you know, there is a part of me that feels sorry for her. Just knowing what it takes.
But at the same time, there`s also a larger part of me that really feels sorry for the children, because one person could not possibly give what is needed to 14 kids.
PINSKY: She`s on to something. Don`t you think? And then I think what rubs people the wrong way is that, then the fact that you had -- when you had --
SULEMAN: Six already.
PINSKY: Six already. Already one parent handling six --
SULEMAN: Like -- I`m on the break, I`m so done defending myself. I want people to keep their business to themselves and I will reciprocate that. I want -- I`m done and done and done with people trying to make my children`s business, my business, their business.
My kids are so fortunate. They are so privileged.
PINSKY: You`re crying.
SULEMAN: I`m not. I`m trying not to.
They`re privileged because they have the most amazing bond and connection with one another and with mom. They know the presence of me in the home is vital and they know that I love them unconditionally.
PINSKY: You certainly can`t go anywhere else. That`s been the thing that`s been troubling me is really no way for you to get a job because you have --
SULEMAN: I can`t.
PINSKY: -- you have 14 full-time jobs in your household. And now, you`re trying to use media to make a living which means Octomom is always with you. Octomom is what you hate.
SULEMAN: Right. Right.
PINSKY: And Octomom is the woman that made the choice to have more kids after she already had six. It`s --
SULEMAN: Octomom was created by the media after I had the eight. And I never wanted anything to do with the media. But they`re like, OK, I would have been a fool to say "no, thank you" to the $150,000, $200,000 interview in the beginning.
PINSKY: All right. I got to go out.
Coming up, she stays with me.
And the man who is looking out for your children and keeping criminals of our kids, that is John Walsh, he is taking calls, as is Nadya, at 855- DRDREW5.
PINSKY: I am back with Nadya Suleman, aka, Octomom. We`re taking your calls. Again, the phone number is 855-DRDREW5.
So, let`s go to the phones. I`ve got, I believe, Crystal in Washington. Go right ahead, Crystal. CRYSTAL, CALLER FROM WASHINGTON: Well, my call is a little different because I`d like to applaud her.
PINSKY: OK. How about that?
CRYSTAL: There are women on welfare who have kids just like her and they choose not to do anything about it to get off welfare. She`s choosing this temporarily.
SULEMAN: Yes. Temporary.
CRYSTAL: And I applaud her. I`m a parent of three autistic children. I applaud her for taking care of her kids.
She`s by herself with no other parent involved. Too many people criticize her.
PINSKY: Crystal, I kind of agree with you. It`s hard not to get caught up in some of the negativity, because people really are tough on her. I`ve tried to help her. But you know, imagine having one of your kids then 13 others. Can you imagine that?
CRYSTAL: I can imagine it. I come from a family of 19 siblings.
CRYSTAL: And a single mom.
PINKSY: Oh, my goodness.
SULEMAN: Thank you for being -- she understands.
CRYSTAL: She did it with three different jobs.
SULEMAN: She understands.
PINSKY: But --
CRYSTAL: She is working her butt off -- excuse me for saying it -- to take care of her kids. The media just lashes her.
SULEMAN: Thank you.
CRYSTAL: They`re not in her shoes.
SULEMAN: Thank you.
CRYSTAL: If they were walking in mile in her shoes, they would not say what they are saying now.
SULEMAN: Yes. I agree.
PINSKY: All right. Crystal, thank you for your point of view.
Let`s keep going. We got Carol in New York.
SULEMAN: Thank you so much.
PINSKY: OK. Carol, what do you have for us?
CAROL, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Carol. You`re on with Nadya.
CAROL: Hi, Nadya.
SULEMAN: How are you?
CAROL: I just want to tell you, I raised 84 kids that weren`t mine. I have four children of my own, five grandchildren.
I want to tell you one thing. I pray for you every day. You are a good mother. You keep a good maintained home.
I see food in your refrigerator and on your counters and your cupboards before food stamps were involved.
SULEMAN: Thank you.
CAROL: You are a good mother. Don`t you let society or anybody get you down.
SULEMAN: Thank you.
CAROL: Don`t let a man in your house, neither, OK?
PINSKY: Well, don`t go too far, now, Carol. You`re getting carried away here, honey.
CAROL: Dr. Drew, let me tell you something.
PINSKY: Please. I want to hear what Carol has got for me. Bring it.
CAROL: Being a father, just like Dr. Phil does, OK? He helps a lot of people, too. I`m going to tell you something.
CAROL: People in today`s world should leave her alone. My aunt raised 17 children. I was born in `54.
CAROL: So she had these 17 children long before me. OK? What really ticks me off with today`s world is big deal for $24,000 in food stamps, OK? It would be $13,552 a month if those kids were in foster care, per month, $162,624 per year.
She is the best person for those children because she is their mother. She`s the only one that`s ever going to love them to the full capacity.
SULEMAN: And die for them. Do anything for them. Yes.
CALLER: Exactly. The same way I would do.
PINSKY: Sleep on the floor for them.
CAROL: I don`t know how you can handle the public and the televisions and everybody else getting involved.
PINSKY: I`ve got about 20 seconds.
CAROL: You`re trying to be a mother. Tell them people to back off on you. Leave you alone, because they wouldn`t care about the people next door.
SULEMAN: Thank you.
PINSKY: Ten seconds, you want to respond to her? Hang on a second, Carol. One sec.
SULEMAN: You know what --
PINSKY: Carol, Carol, honey, you are the greatest.
SULEMAN: I have to tell you, I find three letters, there`s more positive people than negative. And it is you positive people that it helped me cope and it helped me stay strong. And I thank you.
PINSKY: All right. I`ve got to take a break.
John Walsh -- thank you for coming by. Hopefully we straightened some things out.
John Walsh is here after the break taking your calls. Be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Coming up, we`re on call for the hour. I`m taking your questions with the host of "America`s Most Wanted," John Walsh.
And a six-year-old Isabel Celis (ph) disappeared less than a week ago. Are police zeroing in on a suspect? Have you lost a loved one to crime? What would John Walsh tell you to do? Ask him yourself. Call us at 1-855- DrDrew5. That`s 1-855-373-7395. Your questions on that and more straight ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (on-camera): And welcome back. My next guest has helped put more than a thousand of the nation`s worst criminals behind bars. He has dedicated his life to victim`s rights and capturing fugitives, fugitive criminals.
Tonight, we`ll talk about the emotional turmoil that parents and loved ones of missing children and others go through. And what moms and dads need to do to protect their kids from predators.
Tonight, the parents of a missing 16-year-old Arizona -- six-year-old, rather, Arizona girl, Isabel Celis (ph), who authorities say may have been snatched from her bed, made a tearful public appeal on Wednesday for her safe return. They pleaded with the presumed abductors to tell us what you want. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGIO CELIS, ISABEL`S FATHER: We are increasing the reward, just please, please to the person or persons who have Isabel, tell us your demands. Tell us what you want. We will do anything for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I just get chills watching that. It`s just awful. And joining me to discuss, host of "America`s Most Wanted" on Lifetime, John Walsh. We are, of course, live tonight and taking calls the entire hour. You can call for John at 855-DrDrew-5.
First, John, I`ve got a Facebook comment here and see what this says. It`s Susan. "What does Mr. Walsh think may have happened to Little Isabel in Tucson? I thought stranger kidnappings were rare." What do you think about that?
JOHN WALSH, HOST, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": First of all, good to see you.
PINSKY: You, too.
WALSH: Nice to see you again. And, they are somewhat rare, but they`re not unusual.
PINSKY: They`re not unheard of.
WALSH: They`re not unheard of. They`re not unusual in the case that the child is taken from the home. Elizabeth Smart, the perfect example, taken from a beautiful home in Salt Lake City in the middle of the night, out there for eight months. Fortunately, we never gave up. Police thought they had the abductor, was a handyman that worked on the house.
If you remember, he had an aneurysm and died in jail. Salt Lake City police and FBI were going to close that case and said Elizabeth must be dead in the desert. Ed Smart and I become friends over those months. He said, I`m never giving up. I said, I don`t think it`s the guy. We showed a composite that was -- remember the nine-year-old sister was in the bedroom that night.
WALSH: Not only caught the guy, "America`s Most Wanted" not only caught him, the bonus was that he had Elizabeth alive.
PINSKY: And now, she`s just married, and she`s a newscaster now.
WALSH: I went to the wedding. She and her parents followed my advice. And I think you`d give similar advice, don`t do any interviews for a year. Don`t go to the media. Don`t go on the big shows. Let`s get some counseling. Eight months she was with that family.
WALSH: So, that beautiful girl -- she`s walked the halls of Capitol Hill with me for the (INAUDIBLE).
PINSKY: Has her treatment been -- has her treatment`s been successful?
WALSH: Incredibly successful. I remember grilling her first high school date when she went back to high school for the senior prom and saying I`m sending U.S. marshals with you.
PINSKY: Would you talk to my daughter?
WALSH: I`d be glad to. But Elizabeth`s parents are loving -- and she was lucky she has loving, wonderful parents. And she`s involved with changing things. But, we`ve had many cases over the years where people have come in the middle of the house --
WALSH: -- and taken the child. Lots of times the focus goes on the parents. Sometimes, it doesn`t. But it`s a horrible, horrible nightmare. It`s tough cases to solve.
PINSKY: Now, people that may not know your own personal story, you`ve been through a similar nightmare. That`s what created this career.
WALSH: Can`t look at those people without thinking about 30 years today. I just spoke to my wife, and she said, what are you going to do about this little girl? I said, we`re breaking down tomorrow night`s show on Lifetime, we`re on at nine o`clock, and we`ve, you know, after 24 years on Fox, I switched to Lifetime, and we`ve had an incredible capture record.
We`ve caught 15 guys in the last month and a half. I used to average one a week. But we`re bringing -- and she said, John, it just -- it reminds me of when you and I were pleading with the public to help us find Adam. He was six and a half, near the same age as this little girl, kidnapped from the mall, and it took 27 years to solve that case.
We never gave up. They had a guy in custody. He died on death row, not for Adam`s murder, but he was always the main suspect. And if you remember three years ago, live on CNN and live on Fox, the new chief of the Hollywood police, a real, real wonderful guy, said we made huge mistakes in the case, we lost evidence.
Chad Wagner (ph) is his name. He said, we`re apologizing to the Walsh`s for huge mistakes. We believe if Ottis Toole who died on death row in Florida was alive today, we would indict him.
WALSH: So, it all brings back all that nightmare. But the public --
PINSKY: Just looking at the picture of him float by there, it reminds you of -- seeing the little girl reminds you of --
WALSH: Reve and I stood there for two weeks. We asked every single day. We begged. We begged the media. In those days, no one would have us on television.
WALSH: It was David Hartman, if you remember, who was the one who finally made the decision against the advice of his executive producer back in 1981. There was only NBC, CBS, and ABC. There wasn`t the 600 cable universe.
PINSKY: That`s right.
WALSH: And they all turned us down. If we do it for you, we`ll have to do it for every other missing child. And guess who met us the night before that we were going on "Good Morning America" was Julie Patz (ph) and said, you`re getting Adam on tomorrow morning, would you take Etan`s picture? He was kidnapped, six-year-old, three years before that case that`s in the news now.
PINSKY: The first kid on the milk carton.
WALSH: The first little boy, and I know the Patz is in standing (ph).
PINSKY: Is that where you got the idea to do "Most Wanted?"
WALSH: No, no, no. That was Fox`s idea, 1988, but it`s kind of ironic looking at this beautiful little girl who they have to not let her drop out of the public eye.
WALSH: They have to keep searching and looking and just look at her right from her bedroom.
PINSKY: Just makes me ill. Let`s take some calls. Gail in California, you got a question for John?
GAIL, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Mr. Walsh. It`s a pleasure. Yes, I do. Having experienced an unsolved murder myself, I`ve known firsthand the anxiety it continues to cause, even after nine and a half years.
I would like to know how you dealt with the stress of your unsolved murder of your loved one, because the anxiety of not knowing or not finding justice is a killer in itself when it comes to this particular ordeal. Could you tell me how you dealt?
PINSKY: Thanks, Gail. Got it.
WALSH: Well, I think you just hit the nail on the head. And I`m sorry that your case isn`t solved. And you know, people bunter this word closure around. My wife and I say, no, it`s not about closure. We will always be the damaged parents of a murdered child, but Reve put it very well one time.
She said, you know, John, let`s remember who the real victim was, it was Adam. And we`re the left behind heartbroken people. And it took 27 years, as I was saying to Dr. Drew, it took 27 years to solve Adam`s case. I say don`t give up. New technology. You have every right to ask the police that are in charge of this crime, say, what are you doing? What`s the latest? How can we help?
But it is about ending that chapter of your life. It`s not about closure. It`s closing that door. It`s all about justice, and I`m sure you`re sitting there saying, how did you deal with it? I don`t know if we ever dealt with it that well. I still say we`re damaged parents. We`ve been fortunate enough to fight and stay married for 40 years and have three other beautiful children.
But that -- Reve said to me, you know, you`ve caught 1,200 guys on "America`s Most Wanted." I need to know who killed Adam before we die. You have to push hard on those police, and we did. So, my advice to you is, never forget who the victim is, don`t give up, try as many ways as you can to try to find justice to find out who killed that loved one of yours.
PINSKY: Yes. There are certain things you just never get over. They stay with you always no matter what. But there are things you can do. And I wonder if her anxiety isn`t really rage. And that she needs to take that somewhere, just as you said, find justice. That`s a good place to focus your rage.
WALSH: I think I was the most angry, heartbroken, mad father for years, and lucky for me, we channeled it into changing legislation and doing "America`s Most Wanted."
PINSKY: We got a call in Texas from Julie. Julie, I want you to ring in here.
JULIE, TEXAS: Hi there, John. It`s Julie (INAUDIBLE). I just wanted to say thank you for so many wonderful memories. Those were great years. And I`m proud to have worked with you and all --
PINSKY: This is a producer of yours?
WALSH: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Julie, how wonderful that you call in. God, you worked so hard for me and did a -- I was talking to someone who works on Dr. Drew`s show that used to work for me on "The John Walsh Show." So, I think I`ve hired lots of people over the years, but it was a great experience of having you work for me. And thank you so much for calling in. God bless you.
PINSKY: Thanks for all the hard work, too. I mean, you guys did -- you actually made a difference. Made a difference. That`s where television can really be a powerful tool.
So, all right. I want to go to break right now. And we`ve got a lot of calls for John. John`s going to stay with us. Matt Henson, he joins us. His brother is that missing soldier? They`re saying --
WALSH: No, it`s --
PINSKY: The female.
PINSKY: His wife. Yes. It`s his sister who`s soldier (ph) that`s missing. All right. We`re back taking that call and more after this.
PINSKY: Welcome back. John Walsh is with us answering your calls. Let`s go straight out to Matt Henson who joins us to talk about his sister. She is a soldier from Ft. Bragg who has gone missing. Hi, Matt. What`s going on?
VOICE OF MATT HENSON, SISTER, KELLI BORDEAUX, IS MISSING: How you doing, Dr. Drew? Thanks for having me.
PINSKY: My pleasure. You know, before you actually even ask your question, John was telling me something off the air about this case, and I`m going to let him tell you his theory and you respond to it. Go ahead.
WALSH: But go ahead with your question.
PINSKY: OK. Go ahead with the question first, then, Matt. Go ahead. You have a question, Matt?
HENSON: I just want to know, actually, if you have any just general, you know, kind of just general advice on maybe how to handle everything from just the media to just the pressure and stress of, you know, or any tips on really anything. I mean, you know, like the intro was, you`ve had a thousand cases or whatever solved, so any advice or tips that would really be appreciated.
WALSH: Well, I`m glad you called in, and I would say to keep your focus on your sister until they find out what happened to her. And to be strong, and remember who the real victim was. It`s Kelli. And I think you know that they have a suspect, a person of interest, I guess, is the right legal term. They have a person of interest who was with her last.
I know her husband was in Florida, and we know that she went out, like a lot of soldiers do, to have a little bit of fun and relieve that stress. And I believe this guy gave her a ride home, and he was the last one to see her. And I don`t think he`s cooperating with authorities. That`s not unusual. He`s a registered sex offender.
He is probably -- I know police haven`t come out and actually announced it, but he`s their number one person of interest. So, and lots of sex offenders know that until the person is found, alive or dead, they don`t have to talk. They don`t have to cooperate. That`s not unusual. But the advice I`d give you is to do everything you can like this.
Get Kelli`s name on national television. The search will wind down to nothing, and nobody really has much interest in adult missing women. That has been my argument for years.
PINSKY: Oh, that`s interesting.
WALSH: There are so many teenage girls, there are so many young women that go missing in this country. No one ever searched for them. Police always do the best they can, but they always say the same thing. They`re an adult. They had a right to run away. It`s a free country. They`re over 18.
WALSH: Well, wait a second, she was a great student, or this, you know, this is a soldier.
PINSKY: A great soldier. Yes.
WALSH: This is not normal behavior. She only goes out once in a while. So, law enforcement will scale back the search right away. It`s always up to the loved ones and relatives to keep it in the forefront. And you certainly have everything right, like her husband does, to say to police, what can we do? What can we do to help?
And don`t buy into the tabloids salacious side of it. Always keep the focus on Kelli. Say, look, I`m her loving brother, and it`s wonderful you had the guts to call in tonight. I`m trying to help her as much as I can. I want to find out what happened to her. We need to know because the not knowing is killing you and everybody else that loves this woman. And, try to keep her face in the forefront.
PINSKY: First of all, two things, Matt, everyone is praying for your sister, number one. This story has been around HLN for a while now. Our heart goes out to your entire family, number one. Number two, wouldn`t the strategy be for this guy is to sweat this guy out that they`ve got in prison? This guy knows what happened.
WALSH: I`m absolutely sure based on my own personal experiences and my own personal opinion --
PINSKY: Which is built on a lot of experience.
WALSH: Thirty years of hunting and catching and tracking these guys and talking to them about them and knowing about them. And I wish to God that some day, they find a cure or figure out whether it`s a chromosome or what, but I know one thing about sex offenders is they don`t talk, they don`t cooperate.
You can`t sweat them. And they know one thing, if your sister`s alive, I hope that next week she comes home or somebody has her alive like Jaycee Dugard was kept in the backyard by a convicted level three sex offender for 18 years and raped her and she fathered two children. If that`s the case, it would be wonderful, but if it isn`t the case, then you have to continue the search because really bad guys know one thing.
There`s no case without a body. The odds are your sister`s not alive. That`s terrible. But the reality is that somebody has to face those consequences, and justice will be an important thing for you, Matt. It will be a really important thing.
And these bad guys know until they find the body, they can`t build a case. Prosecutors these days need the smoking gun. They want the video. I say don`t stop searching, but people don`t search for adult women. They don`t mount (ph) searches.
PINSKY: This one is staying in the media. Matt, we`ll keep an eye on it, OK? Thank you for calling in, my friend.
HENSON: Thank you. I really appreciate, you guys.
PINSKY: It`s our pleasure.
WALSH: God bless you.
PINSKY: And hopefully, John -- if you need John again, I`m sure you can make yourself available.
WALSH: I`ll do the case again. I mean, you know, one thing, Matt, I put them on my website. We`ve caught 40 guys off of our website. Yes, we have solved some of the oldest, coldest cases. I know one thing, from Adam`s case, 27 years, I believe, you don`t give up. You go hard as my wife said, I need to go to my grave knowing who killed Adam.
PINSKY: Let`s go to Roxanne in Chicago. What`s up there, Roxanne?
ROXANNE, CHICAGO: Oh, hi Dr. Drew and Mr. Walsh. Actually, I`ve been following you, Mr. Walsh, for numerous years. I`ve been in the criminal justice community for 23 years. I`m currently a master`s in forensic psychology student. My request to you is, what advice could you give to someone like me who deals with victims and deals with defenders?
WALSH: I`m proud of you. It`s a tough job to get into. And one thing I know about this man is that with victims, you need compassion. So, always remember that, that the victims need compassion. And part of their healing process is justice. And God bless you. Stay at it.
It`s a tough, tough job, but, you know, there`s a lot of -- a lot to the process of victims coming back into society. And you -- I hope that you help with that. I hope that`s part of your job.
PINSKY: And she has part of her head that she`s dealing with victimizers. And I will address that after the break, but I`m going to say goodbye to you. Thank you for this, John. I appreciate it.
WALSH: Thank you for having me.
PINSKY: And I will be taking your all calls on any topic straight ahead after the break. Stay with us.
PINSKY: We`ve been coming to you live tonight. I want to thank John Walsh, host of "America`s Most Wanted" on Lifetime. That`s Friday at nine o`clock, 8:00 central.
And I want to get back to your questions and comments, but first, I want to comment about Roxanne`s call from Chicago. She`s a criminal justice professional. She works with victims and victimizers, and she feels very schizophrenic with that. John gave some good advice on how to deal with the victims.
As far as the victimizers go, I have a way -- sort of way of approaching that. One is, if they want to change genuinely and they`re working hard at change, they`re sick, they could get better. At a certain point, the line they cross, that whatever they`ve done has -- there`s no excuse for it, Roxanne. I hear you there on the line. Is that you, Roxanne?
ROXANNE: Yes, I`m here.
PINSKY: And they have to take the consequences. No matter how much they want to get better, no matter how much they may regret what they did, they must take the consequences. So, don`t get too caught up in pity for them, but help them get better if they`re willing to work hard. OK?
PINSKY: All right, my dear. Thank you for that call. Let`s go to Marcia in Washington. What`s up there, Marcia?
MARCIA, WASHINGTON: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Marcia.
MARCIA: Quick question. My mom, I don`t have time to go and see how it came up (ph), but she denies that she ever tried to choke me when I was nine.
MARCIA: This was like 25 years ago. There`s no harm of legal --
PINSKY: Hold on a second. How old were you?
MARCIA: I was nine.
PINSKY: You were nine years old. And what did she do? Did she come after you and choke you?
MARCIA: Yes. She literally wrapped her hands around my throat and tried to choke me.
PINSKY: Did she say, I`m trying to kill you?
MARCIA: Yes. Her exact words were, I`m going to snap the life right out of you.
PINSKY: Wow. Was she intoxicated or doing drugs?
MARCIA: No. No alcohol, no drugs.
PINSKY: I will tell you a very common syndrome in perpetrators, let`s make no mistake about it, this is violent perpetration. It`s physical abuse of children, is they had something like that happen to them in their childhood, they then do it. They don`t have these normal thresholds against doing that kind of thing.
Then, they go into a kind of a denial, because acknowledging what they did, which was so painful to themselves, so shattering to themselves, the idea that they then did that on the child they love so much, they can`t deal with it. They just screen it out. Not surprising, Marcia. But you, though, need to maybe talk to some people who have specialty in dealing with trauma. OK?
PINSKY: All right. Thanks for that.
We got other calls out there. It`s next one; we got less than a minute left. Who`s up there next? Judy, is she the next caller? Judy in Boston. What`s up there, Judy?
JUDY, BOSTON: Hey, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hey, Judy. Go right ahead.
JUDY: I like your show. It`s intelligence and thoughtful.
PINSKY: Thank you.
JUDY: First time I`ve seen it.
PINSKY: Thank you.
JUDY: I have a question. I caught you saying -- not caught you saying -- but I heard you say that psychostimulant drugs would be a bad idea if someone was recovering.
PINSKY: Yes. Generally -- I`m telling you, I`ve seen it over and over and over again. Alcoholism and addicts almost always have a concomitant ADD or ADHD. They almost always do. So, naturally, psychostimulant is very appealing for them because it makes that syndrome better. They can`t do it.
Any stimulant stimulates that same reward apparatus that is the disease process. It`s the part of the brain that`s disordered in addiction. And if you stimulate that part of the brain, you`re reawaking the disease process and you just can`t do that. It may work for a little while, you`d certainly feel better for a little while, but you`d also feel better if you did speed or cocaine, wouldn`t you? I`m just saying.
Be very, very cautious with that stuff. Only had (ph) the most careful of circumstances do I recommend -- well, I`m in a minority, by the way, with this, would I suggest you do something like that.
Thank you for your calls. We`ll do this again tomorrow. Thank you all for watching. We`ll see you next time. Tomorrow, we`ll do it (ph).