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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Manhunt for Porn Star Murderer

Aired May 31, 2012 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: He was talking about helping children. I think he should really forget about all of that and focus on healing himself. That`s the key.

Now here`s what`s happening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live from New York City. A porn star accused of killing and dismembering his victim, then sending body parts all over the country. And he allegedly did this all on videotape. An international manhunt is on right now for this possible serial killer. A very strange man with absolutely no conscience next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, a crime more gruesome than the plot of any horror movie. A porn actor accused of murdering and dismembering another man and then mailing body parts to political organizations and even sending video of the murder to a fetish Web site. Tonight the manhunt for suspect Luka Rocco Magnotta goes international. We`ll go inside the mind of this so-called male model.

And did smoking bath salts make a Florida man so crazy that he ate a homeless man`s face?

Also, another pastor under fire after a video of a 3-year-old boy singing an anti-gay song in church goes viral. We`ll show you the pastor and his adult congregation cheering the boy on. Why are kids being taught to hate in church?

Plus, the great sugar debate. The mayor of New York City wants to ban large sugary drinks in the battle against obesity. What do you think? We want to hear from you and are taking your calls.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A ghastly find of a torso in a suitcase in Montreal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shabby and blood-stained apartment not far from where a man`s torso was found rotting in the garbage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dried traces of blood on this table, the couch and the bathtub drain.

RICHARD PAYETTE, NEIGHBOR: It was an overwhelming smell of, like -- it was like bad meat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect is a 29-year-old model and self-styled porn actor named Luka Rocco Magnotta. He`s not known to the police and has no previous criminal record.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A severed foot was found at the Conservative Party headquarters yesterday, and a hand was discovered at a Canada post sorting center.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who knows where the other parts were intended or sent or if there are others out there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve now learned that the suspect videotaped the dismemberment of his victim.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are aware he had postings on YouTube. There are reports that in those videos, he was killing kittens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to find the suspect, and we need to bring him to justice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight an international manhunt for a porn star accused of sending body parts to members of government. A torso found in a suitcase behind his apartment. What the hell is going on here?

Interpol has issued a red notice alert for this man. He goes by several names but is best known as Luka Magnotta. Outside his apartment in Montreal, an enormous crime scene after a human torso is found stuffed in a suitcase. His landlord finds the leaky luggage which leads to even more gruesome discoveries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAYETTE: I had my eye on it because it looked like a nice suitcase. In 208 that`s where they found the rest of the body parts, right across from my apartment. I walked out at 7 this morning, and there was an overwhelming smell of, like -- it was like bad meat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Inside his apartment blood stains seeped through a mattress. Plus, blood spatter on the shower, on the table, on the furniture; flesh even found in his refrigerator.

On his mirror, a terrifying message, scrawled in red marker: "If you don`t like the reflection, don`t look in the mirror. I don`t care."

What happened to the rest of the body parts? A left foot was sent in the mail to the headquarters of Canada`s Conservative Party, and a postal worker found a severed left hand in a package addressed to Canada`s Liberal Party.

What kind of human being commits horrific murders and then sends body parts to his elected officials? Listen to Luka Magnotta in his own words in his interview from "The Toronto Sun."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUKA ROCCO MAGNOTTA, SUSPECT: I`m a stripper, and then basically, I went from there to doing adult films. And I`m not ashamed of making adult films. I have a problem, though, with people saying (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What a weirdo. What a sicko. Where is this porn star turned murder suspect?

Give me a call: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297. I want to hear your thoughts on this very strange case.

Straight out to CBC reporter Terry Milewski, who is live in Ottawa, Canada, with the very latest. What do you know, Terry?

TERRY MILEWSKI, CBC REPORTER: Well, the latest we`re hearing, Jane, now is that police believe that this Luka -- Luka Rocco Magnotta may have taken a plane to Paris, and that he may have done that on Friday, which would have been right after the murders happened.

And we have an idea of the timeline now, because we now know that that breathtakingly gruesome video of the killing was apparently posted online by Friday.

So it looks like that video depicts the actual killing of a naked Asian man, aged about 30 with many, many blows with an ice pick to the head. And the video continues with the dismemberment of the victim.

And we interviewed a professor today, by the way, who saw this video early on before any of this story broke and called the police in Toronto. They didn`t want to talk to him.

So this timeline suggests that, if he has gone to Europe, Magnotta would have had about a four-day lead, because it wasn`t until Tuesday that here in Ottawa the discovery happened of the left foot that was mailed to the governing Conservative Party and then after that the left hand that was mailed to the Liberal Party. We do know that those parts were decomposing when they arrived.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Terry, what was the relationship? Do you know anything about the relationship between the victim, who was apparently murdered on tape and decapitated, and then there`s reports that this guy presumably ate some of the body and it`s just beyond comprehension. The connection between Luka and the victim?

MILEWSKI: We don`t know. We know that it was probably a sexual relationship, though. And we also know that Magnotta is well known, that he was responding to men looking for men ads on Craigslist, for example, by sending nude and semi-nude pictures not just of himself, but of other young men. So we assume that it was some sort of sadomasochistic homosexual relationship involved here.

But the police have not yet identified the victim in this case, other than showing the neighbors photographs of an Asian man. So they obviously have some idea. It sounds like the man`s family is overseas. They`re having trouble communicating, and they`re having trouble -- they haven`t yet had -- found some DNA confirmation of the identity.

So they haven`t released it yet, but look -- look at the challenges here for the police. We`ve got body parts, literally, that are all over the map, and there are still body parts missing that may yet be in the mail. For example, they haven`t found the head yet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable.

Now, one of the breaks in this case is that Luka Magnotta allegedly videotaped himself stabbing the man repeatedly with an ice pick and then dismembering his victim. Apparently, his head was covered, the victim, and he was tied to this mattress. Police confirm that these videos are a key part of their investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not even confirmed his identity so talking about the possible video of the horrible crime, we`re not getting into that. But yes, part of the investigation is looking at different videos.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s what we know about this video. In it, the 29- year-old self-described fashion model allegedly decapitates his victim, who is tied up, covered, his eyes covered, and he`s strapped to -- it`s believed that this Luka character ate part of the human body. And then -- I hope you`re sitting down -- he brings in a dog to eat the fresh kill. He also had sex with the corpse.

Now, one of our producers on this show watched 10 seconds of this video and had to run away from the screen. None of us proceeded to watch the rest of it, because he said you do not want to look at it. He was so shaken.

Joe Warrington, you`re a reporter with the Sun News Network out of Toronto. You have the dubious distinction, but you wrote an excellent article, of having interviewed this suspect. You actually talked to this Luka Magnotta. Your reaction to him being a suspect in this very perverse, perverse killing?

JOE WARRINGTON, REPORTER: Well, Jane, he was one of the creepiest people that I`ve ever run across in this job as a columnist, reporter and TV commentator. You know, we get to meet a lot of interesting and bizarre people, but he was right up there.

It was five years ago when he came into our newspaper here in Toronto. And he was talking about -- trying to deny that he was involved with Karla Homolka, who was one of our most notorious killers with her ex-husband, Paul Bernardo. So right there, it was clearly that he had connecting himself because, in that case, they had dismembered their victims, young females and scattered them about, three in total. So this has been very, very upsetting here for people around this country.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to get a sense of what this guy was like when you talked to him. Did you sense that he might be a murderer?

WARRINGTON: Well, he had this look like, Jane, you looked into his eyes, and you didn`t see anything. He barely blinks. He had these sort of piercing eyes. A monotone way of talking and looking right through you.

Talking about, you know, his dog being killed. Talking about his SUV being stolen, his career as an escort, a male escort, making adult films, talking about drug use.

I offered -- the photographer that I was working with, Veronica Henry (ph), we offered to get him some help, medical help. This is five years ago.

And in retrospect, I mean, I just thought he was a bit of a nut bar because he had a nice kind of demeanor. I could see somebody, Jane, being you know, sucked in by it, because you really feel sorry for the guy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGNOTTA: Let me just set the record straight that me and Karla have absolutely no connection. I`ve been receiving death threats. My address is posted. That`s why I had to move. I want my Pomeranian back. It was taken in my SUV.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was from "The Toronto Sun," an interview with the accused murderer himself, making this bizarre story even stranger.

OK. This guy is accused of killing this unidentified Asian man, chopping him up, eating part of him, and letting a dog eat another part of him, having sex with the corpse and sending it to all sorts of government officials.

As if that is not enough, OK, horror, there`s speculation that this same Luka Magnotta dated a Canadian serial killer named Karla Homolka. He denied it in the interview you just heard, but Karla and her husband, Paul Bernardo, were known as the Ken and Barbie killers for the rape and murders of two Ontario teenagers and Homolka`s own sister.

Believe it or not, she got a plea deal and was released in 2005, and apparently, now she`s like a mother of three or something.

But I`ve got to go to Wendy Walsh, psychologist, co-host, "The Doctors." This is one sick, sick, sick individual. The motive apparently was some kind of sexy, kinky sex game that got very, very sadistic and deadly.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. And we have no way of knowing whether he planned this murder or whether it was a game that went wrong, but he certainly went to great lengths to publicize it afterwards, which tells me he loves the limelight, Jane, loves that attention. He`s getting -- he`s sending body parts to high-profile places. He`s putting videos online. Clearly, this guy wants to be a superstar in some way.

And I don`t -- if he is in Paris, it`s not going to be long before he makes himself known.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve got to tell you, believe it or not, I have a connection to this case, because everybody who watches this show knows that I`m an animal advocate.

And for years I`ve been getting e-mails about somebody killing cats that animal rights activists have been looking for, and it turns out it`s the same sick person. Yes, the same person they`re looking at. He is known for videotaping himself torturing and killing kittens and then posting the disgusting videos online. Animal rights activists have wanted to find him for years, and authorities have admitted yes, they knew about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In terms of what kind of involvement he`s got from the criminal activities with animals and stuff like that, honestly, we heard about it, but we don`t have any conformation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robyn Walensky, reporter from "The Blaze," I almost fell off my chair, because I remember getting all these e-mails about him killing all these small animals and people, animal advocates around the world trying to find him. And they usually start with animals, don`t they -- Robyn.

ROBYN WALENSKY, REPORTER, "THE BLAZE": Right. I thought about you this morning when I saw this story, because this guy was videotaping himself killing these cats and suffocating them and feeding them to snakes. I mean, he is off the chart with more than one screw loose in his head.

Also, Jane, what comes to mind in this guy is that he has a little bit of a Jeffrey Dahmer-sicko-chopping up the bodies, putting some parts in the refrigerator. Some maintenance people that went into the apartment said they saw blood where you would normally keep the fruit underneath.

Also, additionally, it also sounds to me like he was watching episodes of the Showtime program "Dexter," where they had serial killers chopping up body parts and then sending them in the mail to various people.

This guy, Jane, is sick, and it does normally start with people who are this sick killing animals and then moving on to humans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAYETTE: Anti-social. He wouldn`t talk to anybody. I`d say hello to him, and he wouldn`t respond, not even with a head nod or anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Neighbors describing this accused killer, Luka Rocco Magnotta.

And he used several aliases. You see them there: Eric Clinton Newman, Vladimir Romanov. He claims that he was born in Russia, but who knows what`s made up and what`s the truth?

He also wrote a bunch of blogs about how to disappear completely by shedding your identity.

Jeff Brown, criminal defense attorney, how are guys -- how are the authorities going find this guy? He could be anywhere in the world. And he`s got numerous aliases. And he wrote a blog on how to disappear without ever being found again?

JEFF BROWN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, we`ll see just how good he is, apparently, from his blog.

You know, one of the things law enforcement does is they track credit cards, so that`s going to be one of the things they`ll be looking at. He`s going to have to be able to survive either on a new identity and new cards or with cash. So that`s one thing they`ll look for.

You know, Jane, there`s a couple of issues that still legally have to be wrapped up here. There`s been a question about whether or not the videotape shows the body is actually moving. So they`re going to have to prove that the victim was alive. They may be able to do that through the autopsy.

But they`re going to have to first prove that he`s not just guilty of mutilating a corpse, that`s it`s a real victim that`s alive at the time.

And then they`re going to have to also be able to prove that it`s him. You know, the video doesn`t show -- doesn`t reveal the guy`s identity.

So there are some loose ends that law enforcement is going to have to be spending the next couple of hours really trying to tie up. We know that it may be his apartment, but that doesn`t necessarily mean that`s him on the video. So that`s one of the things that...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you watch the video?

BROWN: No, I haven`t been able to see the video.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I -- my producer was shaken. He watched ten seconds of it. He ran away from the screen, because it shows an ice pick, then a decapitation, sex, necrophilia, cannibalism. I didn`t watch it. You know why? Because I care about what`s happening in my brain. I can read the transcript. I don`t need to be haunted by those images; I know they would haunt me forever.

Christine, Florida. We`re going out to the phone lines. Christine, Florida, your question or thought, Christine.

CALLER: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

CALLER: Great show.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.

CALLER: This guy, I mean, how much more between the guy eating the face off in Florida, which is where I live that just happened, and now this? I mean, what is the world coming to?

I mean, we know this guy has to be mentally ill. There is no way that a sane person can do something like this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I thing you bring up a great world. What the heck is happening in our world? We have this sicko, allegedly killing, eating and then sending human body parts in the mail.

Then you have what this lady referred to, that horrific scene that played out in Miami earlier this week. Miami police shot this guy, Eugene -- Rudy Eugene several times. He was literally chewing the face off a homeless man named Ronald Poppo. The horrifying attack lasted 18 minutes. Poppo lost 75 percent of his face.

They believe the suspect may have been hallucinating after taking bath salts, designer drugs. He was naked, and he didn`t even stop attacking after police shot. They had to shoot him eight times.

And then in Maryland, we`ve got another man who admitted eating his roommate`s heart and part of his brain. Honestly, I think we`ve got to bring in a shrink here.

Wendy Walsh, what on earth is happening in our society?

WALSH: Well, the media has become bigger, and we have access to this information. That`s the first thing. Because we should know, Jane, that our community, our society as a whole has actually become less violent. So let`s everyone calm down a bit.

But these isolated sociopaths exist. They`ve existed since the beginning of human time. Sometimes it has to do with atrocious acts that happen in childhood. And sometimes it just happens because there`s bad wiring in the brain, bad brain chemistry that just happens.

But it`s not an epidemic. We`re not seeing growing amounts of crazed serial killers and that`s important for people to know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A ghastly find of a torso in a suitcase in Montreal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shabby and blood-stained apartment not far from where a man`s torso was found rotting in the garbage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dried traces of blood on this table, the couch and the bathtub drain.

PAYETTE: It was an overwhelming smell of, like -- it was like bad meat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect is a 29-year-old model and self-styled porn actor named Luka Rocco Magnotta. He`s not known to the police and has no previous criminal record.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A severed foot was found at the Conservative Party headquarters yesterday, and a hand was discovered at a Canada post sorting center.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who knows where the other parts were intended or sent or if there are others out there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve now learned that the suspect videotaped the dismemberment of his victim.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are aware he had postings on YouTube. There are reports that in those videos, he was killing kittens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to find the suspect, and we need to bring him to justice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: An international manhunt as we speak for this man, 29-year-old Luka Magnotta. And he is suspected of taking a man who`s only described as an unidentified Asian male, at this point, in his house in Montreal, his apartment where he lived, tying him up to the bed, covering his eyes, stabbing him repeatedly with a pickax, and then dismembering him.

And it pains me to even say this stuff, but having sex with the corpse and then feeding part of the corpse to a dog, eating some of it himself, sending the body parts to various Canadian officials.

Now, what is this guy like? Guess what? An interview was done with him in 2007 by the "Toronto Sun". We`re going to talk to a reporter who spoke to this sicko, but first listen to the man everybody in the world is looking for tonight, Luka Magnotta.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUKA MAGNOTTA, MURDER SUSPECT: I want to set the record straight that me and her have absolutely no connection. I`ve been receiving death threats. My address is posted. That`s why I had to move. I want my Pomeranian back just (inaudible) in my SUV.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joe Wormington, you did an excellent -- ok, well, he did an excellent interview with The Sun News Network, and he actually talked to this guy. And he said that as he was talking to him, he said he`s never done a stranger interview in his life. That the guy`s piercing eyes looked like they were just going to look right through him. And then he`s talking and talking to this reporter and at a certain point the reporter has decided that everything this guy is saying is completely made up.

Straight up to Meghan Hurley, crime reporter with the "Ottawa Citizen"; what do you know? What information can you bring us tonight on this very, very strange case, Meghan?

MEGHAN HURLEY, CRIME REPORTER, "OTTAWA CITIZEN" (via telephone): Well, Jane, this time, we know that man at the center of an international manhunt for the gruesome killing and dismemberment in Montreal, fled Canada for Paris on May 25th, the day that the killing took place. He`s now been charged with second-degree murder in the death of an unknown person, this person that we know is an Asian male. And that`s about all we know about the victim at this point.

We know that a video had been circulating on the Internet for several days that shows this guy repeatedly stabbing a man with an ice pick, then decapitating and dismembering the body.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now you`re saying that you have information that he fled to France. Now, before we have been hearing that he might have fled to France, but they really don`t know where he is.

HURLEY: I`m hearing from police sources in Ottawa that he actually did, in fact, flee the country. He took a flight to Paris and landed in Paris on Friday, May 22nd. We do not know where he is at this point and whether or not he stayed in the country.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, after being sent body parts in the mail, members of the Canadian government are terrified. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CONSERVATIVE PARTY MEMBER: I`m troubled that someone decided that a political party was a worthy target for that particular body part. Who knows where the other body parts were intended or sent or if there are others out there?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jeff Brown, criminal defense attorney -- I hate to be morbid -- but one of the big problems with these cases is they have not found the head of this decapitated body.

JEFF BROWN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. You know, they`re going to have to be able to show or prove the identity of this person. And that`s certainly going to help and finding the head, of course, you know. That`s something I`m sure they all want to find out because they want to get all the body parts together. But, you know, the identity of this person that`s the other problem that we don`t have in this case.

You can convict somebody without an identity because you can prove that they are a human being, but you certainly would like to be able to know who this person is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We will stay on top of this story and have the latest developments tomorrow.

Now this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We must repent, friend, because we`ve broken God`s laws.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would Jesus really do this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ain`t no homo going to make it to heaven.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s leave it to (inaudible). That`s what happened in Israel. That`s why homosexuality wouldn`t have grown in Israel.

CROWD: Love, not hate. Love, not hate. Love, not hate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, so you`re saying that we should go out and start killing them now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the government should.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Build a great, big large fence and put all the lesbians in there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I felt that he was preaching bigotry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do the same thing with the queers and the homosexuals.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they said some of that but he would say them and everything else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven`t seen nor heard from Pastor Charles Worley since his anti-gay sermon went viral.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a preacher. This is a bigot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pastor, would you like to take back anything you said?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to lay off my pastor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, hate speech and hymnals together under one roof. Several anti-gay hate-filled church videos have gone viral recently. The latest one stars a very young boy singing an anti-gay song to his congregation.

Listen to the hymn and the crowd`s raucous approval.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know the Bible`s right, somebody`s wrong. I know the Bible`s right, somebody`s wrong. Romans 1:26 and 27 ain`t no homo going to make it to heaven

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A man in the crowd shouts "That`s my boy." We tried to call the Indiana church, but no answer. We asked the sheriff about reports the pastor had gotten death threats and the sheriff told us he was not aware of any death threats.

Similar scandals struck a Kansas church this week. The pastor`s hate- filled homophobic sermon became viral.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They should be put to death. That`s what happened in Israel. That`s why homosexuality wouldn`t have grown in Israel.

It`s (inaudible) conversation. It is people coming out of the closet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, so you`re saying we should go out and start killing them now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m saying the government should. They won`t, but they should.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Just a few weeks ago, this man was the most talked about preacher in America. He advocates putting gays in concentration camps where they would, quote, "die off". Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I figured a way out. A way to get rid of all the lesbians and queers where they couldn`t get past the (inaudible). Build a great, big large fence, 150 or 100 miles long and put all the lesbians in there and fly over and drop some food. Do the same thing with the queers and the homosexuals and have that fence electrified so they can`t get out. Feed them and you know what? In a few years they`ll die out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to Gary Schneeberger from Focus on the Family; we`re going to have a little debate. We have both sides of this issue here tonight. Sir, do you condone or object to the behavior of the sentiments expressed on these videos.

GARY SCHNEEBERGER, FOCUS ON THE FAMILY: I absolutely do not condone or agree with; in fact Jane, I have to apologize, if what you are -- you know, if you booked me because you were kind hoping for a debate with me and the other guest. I think I`m going to agree a lot with the other guest about how inappropriate this kind of commentary is.

In fact, I would say some of what you played, most of what you played really qualifies as rhetorical pornography because of the way it debases human beings and there`s nothing -- nothing Christian about that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m pleasantly surprised to hear you say that. I really didn`t have that many expectations, frankly. With the story ahead before, I didn`t have much time to think about what you were going to say.

SCHNEEBERGER: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But let`s listen to this little boy singing again. You have to wonder if -- he`s three years old, does he even know what he`s saying? The lyrics he`s singing -- the meaning of them? Of course not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know the bible`s right somebody`s wrong. I know the bible`s right, somebody`s wrong. Romans 1: 26 and 27, ain`t no homo going to make it to heaven

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bishop Carlton Pearson of the New Dimensions Church in Chicago. I have a whole bunch of quotations here from the Bible, "love thy neighbor", and I could go on and on. Why is this happening inside houses of worship?

BISHOP CARLTON PEARSON, NEW DIMENSIONS CHURCH, CHICAGO: Well, that`s a fear-based theology that is viral. You talk about a virus. That kind of incendiary mentality -- those sentiments are very embarrassing. They in no way reflect the Christ consciousness or the Jesus I was taught to follow.

Those people are unlearned and I know what they are thinking because I used to live at that street address years ago until my consciousness was expanded. I like the other gentleman who is on. We are both very embarrassed for that kind of bigot.

There are millions of Christians who, in no way, do not embrace that mentality, who may not be for same-sex love or gay rights but they do not embrace that. It`s a shame, it`s a sham, it`s nothing like Christ. It`s certainly not what I feel at all in my heart.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, Gary, I`m going to give you the last word.

SCHNEEBERG: Yes. I would say that it`s very, it`s possible to be for God`s design for human sexuality. I believe God`s design for human sexuality is one man and one woman in the context of marriage. But I also believe that God`s design for basic human interaction is as you said, Jane, to love your neighbor as you love yourself. And I did not hear a lot of love in those videos. And really that`s what as Christians we ought to be encouraging.

Not step away from your values, but express God`s truth with Christ`s heart.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready? Here you go.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cue me. Here`s your viral video of the day. We`ll talk about these next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(VIRAL VIDEO OF THE DAY)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`re thinking of getting a soda twice the size of a regular one in the Big Apple, you want to think again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg wants to slap a ban on sugar-sweetened drinks larger than 16 ounces. It`s another move the city says would help a growing obesity problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think that would stop obesity. It`s when the other (inaudible)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it`s great. It`s poison. It`s all sugar.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hang on to these because they could become collector`s items, at least in New York, the city that never sleeps is getting a sugary drink crackdown. In an attempt to battle the bulge, New York City`s Mayor Bloomberg wants to ban all high-calorie drinks to a maximum of 16 ounces.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not taking away anybody`s right to do anything. All we`re trying to do is to remind you that this is something that could be, should be -- not should be -- but is detrimental to your health and to do something about this national epidemic. It`s not perfect.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. On this show, we`ve been on an adventure to slim and I have been drinking eight glasses of water a day and I flavor with a little lemon juice and a little Stevia but it`s got zero calories. And those 20-ounce sodas have about 250 calories. That`s the same as eating 2.5 bananas or a slice of pizza and those liquid calories add up.

So, we`re going to have a little debate about this. We have two fabulous guests: Kerry Glassman, registered dietician, author of the Slim Com Sexy, she is in the orange; and Golda Poretsky with the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance in the beige. And I`m in the black.

All right. Ladies, let me start with you Kerry. Do you approve of this suggested ban?

KERRY GLASSMAN, REGISTERED DIETICIAN: I absolutely do. I think it`s a step in the right direction. It`s not perfect, but as Bloomberg said, it is a reminder. It`s just a reminder for people and it might slow them down. Now of course, they can go to the convenience store and they can buy as many ounces of soda as they want.

But the fact is when they`re sitting at a restaurant and they are ordering and they are controlling the amount that they can order at one time, it may slow them down. So it`s a deterrent. And there`s regulation when it comes to tobacco. There`s regulation when it comes to alcohol. And sugar contributes to obesity which causes just as much disease as tobacco and alcohol. We need some form of regulation.

I`m for it. I think it`s a step in the right direction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Golda Poretsky with the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance.

GOLDA PORETSKY WITH THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION TO ADVANCE FAT ACCEPTANCE: I think with any public policy you have to look at the intended effect or the unintended effect. And somebody who doesn`t -- I don`t drink soda personally but I think when you look at the unintended effect, what are they going to. And I think people are just going to -- you know, they`re just going to either buy -- if they want a lot of soda, they`re going to buy a two-liter sodas, it`s not that hard to get. Or they`re going to drink diet soda which has a lot of aspartame, it has other issues, affects blood sugar just as much.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this? What about this? Hello? What about this? Free. Zero calories, good for us.

GLASSMAN: And I think that`s one of the other effects that can happen. Someone orders a soda and then instead of going for -- drinking more soda, they then switch over to water because they don`t order another drink. And I absolutely do not want people drinking more diet soda, because they`re not getting the soda. But I don`t think that will be one of the effects.

I think that people either are going to order two drinks, in which case, it`s not making a change for them; or they`ll order one and they will reduce their consumption. And again, it is a reminder. It`s a reminder that sugar is making us obese. Our country is obese. There`s an obesity epidemic and anything to help control that is a step in the right direction.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I know I deserve a laugh break, so do you.

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(LAUGH BREAK)

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re not living the life that our soul knows we`re intended to be living here. And as long as we keep running around doing things that don`t fit who we individually really are, we`re going to eat to dull the pain that that brings us.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Getting back to this proposed ban; to burn off a 20-ounce soda, sugary soda, you`d have to walk 3 miles, a 32- ounce sports drink, 2.5 miles, a large lemonade, 4.5 miles.

Back with our Golda Poretsky, National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance, I heard you say in the break that you don`t believe that there is an obesity crisis?

PORETSKY: If you look at the numbers increases in obesity have tapered off since 2004. Americans on average have actually also grown an inch so it`s basically a null thing. I feel like the obesity epidemic, the concept is really put forth by diet companies and pharmaceutical companies who have a big interest in trying to get people to lose weight even though there is no way to make fat people thin.

95 percent of people gain back all the weight within three to five years, so I like to focus on what we can do to be healthy right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Kerry.

GLASSMAN: Yes, I mean of course, we need to focus being healthy and I agree. We were talking a little bit during the break as well about that. And that people, there is a wide range of health and you don`t necessarily have to fit what, you know, the government says is this is your ideal body weight for your height, necessarily.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You don`t think there is an obesity crisis?

GLASSMAN: No, I do. Absolutely I think there`s an obesity crisis. I was just saying, I was agreeing with Golda when we were talking about the fact that you don`t necessarily have to fit an exact number. There is a wide range.

However, there is an obesity epidemic. People are -- more people we know have diabetes. People are dying from cancer. People are dying from heart disease. We know that. We know that poor diets contribute to all of those things. And we know -- we do know that eating healthy and that exercising and sleeping the right amount and reducing stress and changing all these lifestyle factors does help people control their weight and be healthier and reduce the risk for death and other disease.

PORETSKY: It helps people improve their health. It does not necessarily lead to weight loss for people. And so we have to back away from this idea of weight loss as being the answer to health and focus on actual health.

GLASSMAN: We need to focus on health and weight loss as being part of that. And weight loss, it varies for people. It does vary, but maintaining a healthy body weight is part of being a healthy person. That healthy body weight is different for different people.

Again it`s not just based on, you`re this height, this should be your ideal body weight. When I ask people their ideal body weight, I don`t just look at the chart, I say what is your ideal body weight for you with your history.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Believe it or not, amidst this whole debate over these drinks, tomorrow is national doughnut day in America. Straight out to the phone lines, Joan Pennsylvania, your question or thought, Joan?

JOAN, PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Janey. Thanks for taking my call. I think this is so important, but not only is childhood obesity up and medical illnesses with our youth, you have behavioral problems, learning disabilities; that all has to do with our nutrition and nutrition is a learned behavior.

Why aren`t government officials and including Mrs. Obama, her platform, why aren`t they having whole food meals in our schools?

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Joan, you`ve raised some excellent, excellent points.

Golda Poretsky -- I said it right -- National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. Take it away.

PORETSKY: I have no problem with that. I have to problem with teaching nutrition in school. I have no problem with making sure that kids are eating well and having places to play and all of that. It`s very important. But when we focus on obesity what we do is we stigmatize fat kids, we stigmatize obesity and --

GLASSMAN: I disagree with there with children. Because I think that we are and in the schools -- the schools are going to have a lot to do when it comes with actual food being served. But in general with education and children, we`re focusing on educating children on being healthy. Not on --

PORETSKY: Well, yes, but still, Miss Obama has said, you know, that we want to wipe out obesity. This kind of thing and the truth is that bullying of fat kids is on the rise. That`s one of the top reasons why kids are --

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Got to leave it right there. Nancy next.

END