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STARTING POINT WITH SOLEDAD O'BRIEN

John Edwards Verdict; Obama's Cyber War On Iran; Report Indicates U.S. Economy Added 69,000 Jobs in Month of May; U.S. Unemployment Rate at 8.2 Percent; Marilyn and Me; CNN Heroes Join Forces

Aired June 1, 2012 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN EDWARDS, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: While I do not believe I did anything illegal, I did an awful, awful lot that was wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN HOST: Will the former senator face a judge again?

Plus, Marilyn Monroe like you have never seen her before. Bestselling author Lawrence Schiller shares some rare pictures and intimate stories of the private Marilyn that he knew.

And torture me Elmo. Pentagon confirming what we suspected for years, that muppets are getting suspected terrorist crack apparently.

It's Friday, June 1st and STARTING POINT begins right now.

(MUSIC)

O'BRIEN: If it's the Dixie Chicks, it must be Will Cain. That's "Love It Or Leave It."

WILL CAIN, CNN ANCHOR: Lubbock, Texas, home of my wife.

O'BRIEN: I didn't know that. Really?

CAIN: She left it.

O'BRIEN: For New York City.

CAIN: Right.

O'BRIEN: Where you can only buy itty bitty sodas.

CAIN: You can buy big sodas in Lubbock, I can promise you that.

O'BRIEN: Will Cain is with us. He's a CNN contributor and columnist for TheBlaze.com.

Also, Abby Huntsman, political commentator.

And Jeff Toobin, CNN senior legal analyst joining us this morning.

We are talking about John Edwards. A likely of the legal hook after the jury acquitted him on one count of campaign finance fraud. They were hopelessly deadlocked on the five other counts and the judge declared a mistrial on those charges. Prosecutors had accused Edwards of using nearly a million dollars in illegal campaign contributions to keep his pregnant mistress under wraps during his presidential run.

Edwards addressed those allegations himself yesterday on his way out of court after the verdict was read.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARDS: That while I do not believe I did anything illegal or ever thought I was doing anything illegal, I did an awful, awful lot that was wrong. And there is no one else responsible for my sins.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: The charges against Edwards carried a maximum sentence of 30 years in prison and $1.5 million fine. Prosecutors could still decide to retry the case.

Joining us now, Bridget Siegel, who served as finance director for the 2004 Kerry/Edwards presidential campaign.

Nice to have you with us.

Were you surprised this went to trial?

BRIDGET SIEGEL, FINANCE DIRECTOR, KERR/EDWARDS CAMPAIGN: I was. You would think, you know, a year ago, the Federal Election Commission said they weren't contributions, didn't require them to report them. You would have thought the Justice Department would have taken their word for it. They're the organization that covers it.

O'BRIEN: Let's bring Jeff Toobin for a moment.

What do you think the message of the hung jury on the five other charges is?

JEFF TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: That this was a very difficult case. It was a difficult case for the prosecution because this kind of conduct did not seem like a violation of the campaign finance laws but a difficult case for the defense because Edwards' behavior was so reprehensible.

So, I think in a way this is a fitting conclusion to the trial. It's not a complete vindication, but it is not something that will end with him being a convicted felon or someone in federal prison.

ABBY HUNTSMAN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: How likely that he'll be back to trial?

TOOBIN: I think extremely unlikely. I think the Justice Department learned its lesson. I think the Citizens United decision, which came out after these charges has made it that much harder to bring criminal cases based on campaign finance. It's time for everybody to go home.

O'BRIEN: It's done.

CAIN: Why did it go to trial in the first place? It would be unclear if it's illegal now. FEC said they didn't think it was at the time. Why did this go to trial in the first place?

SIEGEL: I think people were hungry to convict John Edwards of something. I mean, he admitted it yesterday. He said it. He's guilty of a lot of things.

I think people wanted to see him held accountable for something they saw him on the public stage. They saw him as a presidential candidate and wanted to get him on something.

TOOBIN: He also had a Republican U.S. attorney leading this investigation for quite a few years and then the Obama administration comes in and frankly I think it's politically paralyzed not wanting to seem to be helping a prominent Democrat, so they essentially deferred to the Republican who brought these charges initially and I think it's a case that really shouldn't have been brought in the first place.

O'BRIEN: As he was finishing up his remarks, John Edwards said this about God's vision for him. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARDS: I don't think God's through with me. I really believe he thinks there's still some good things I can do. And whatever happens with this legal stuff going forward, what I'm hopeful about is all those kids that I've seen, you know, in the poorest parts of this country and in some of the poorest places in the world, that I can help them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Sounded to me like he was almost winding up for a little bit of a campaign speech.

SIEGEL: It's like the cliff-hanger of a good sitcom. Left us at the season finale with this.

O'BRIEN: What do you think he's talking about?

SIEGEL: You know, I would be shocked if he had a political future, if he was going to go back into the political ring. I think it sounds like he's setting himself up to do some kind of public service and we hope that's something in the nonprofit world and going back to doing good. I think it will be hard for him to start talking about poverty again especially.

TOOBIN: You work for the campaign. How do you feel about John Edwards now?

SIEGEL: It's disappointing. I'm a campaign worker at heart.

TOOBIN: That's it? It's disappointing?

SIEGEL: And it's traumatizing to future campaigns and politics you work on. You know, a campaign worker, we spend lives 24 hours a day working on the belief that government works, that politics works, that these people are really going to make a change and to have this happen, it really hurts politics across the board.

CAIN: At the end putting your faith in individuals in a man and I would assume that's what's being shook here, that you are questioning your own judgment on who is a good man to throw your weight behind.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Let me ask you a question. They wrote a little bit about in the book "Game Change" writing about 2004, the same years that you were working there. You have good insight into this. They say John Edwards changed. They said there was this transformation where he went from being this -- maybe idealistic is not the way to sum it all up, but that's what they were saying to this.

He suddenly -- "The real transformation occurred in 2004. Edwards reveled of being inside the bubble, the Secret Service, the chartered jet, the press pack, the swarm of factotums catering to his every whim. And the crowds. The ovations. The adoration. He ate it up."

And I wonder, did you see that change?

SIEGEL: I think anyone around -- around the campaigns, and I wasn't around him too much before that. But I think anyone at the beginning of the campaign, and really through part of the campaign, saw this amazing change, which happens. You are going from a senator in a Southern state to Secret Service and flying from foreclosure meetings to $25,000 dinners -- per person dinners.

Yes, I definitely think there was a change. I don't think he started out that way.

HUNTSMAN: Are you too nervous to get involved in another campaign? I mean, now that you've been through this experience, I know you probably really believed in him because personally being part of a campaign when my dad ran for president, people that worked for him -- they believe in him and they trust that he's a good guy and is going to do the right thing for the country.

So, it must have been a hard thing to go through to realize that the guy that you put all that work behind wasn't the guy you thought.

O'BRIEN: He was lying to you.

SIEGEL: Absolutely. It's a hard thing to do. It's a hard thing to do. It's a hard thing to get back into campaigns and it's a hard thing to work again 24 hours a day and believe in that.

But I do. I think there are great politicians out there. I think there are still people who can really make a change and unfortunately it wasn't him.

O'BRIEN: How would he have to redeem himself? What do you think John Edwards has to do?

CAIN: On a public stage?

O'BRIEN: Remember, in America. We love a comeback. What do you think? Is that possible at all?

CAIN: Irredeemable on the public stage.

TOOBIN: I agree. Do private, good works. There's nothing wrong with doing private good works. There's much right with it.

If he's sincere that he really cares about kids and whatnot, do it privately and I think he would have the admiration of everyone. But you don't have to be in the public eye. Not everyone does.

HUNTSMAN: Stay out of the political world.

SIEGEL: I agree. Stay out of the political world.

O'BRIEN: Nice to see you. Thank you for being with us, Bridget Siegel. Appreciate it.

SIEGEL: Thank you for having me.

O'BRIEN: All right. Christine Romans has an update on the day's top stories.

Hey, Christine.

ROMANS: Good morning, Soledad.

Watching your money this morning, U.S. stock futures down sharply ahead of the big jobs report due out at 8:30. Economists surveyed by CNN Money expect 150,000 jobs were added to the economy last month. They think the unemployment rate likely stayed steady at 8.1 percent. The report comes out in half hour. We'll give you numbers as soon as they are released. Stay tuned for that.

Mortgage rates just keep dropping. The 15-year fixed rate mortgage is down below 3 percent. That's a popular refinancing tool. It's a new record low for the 30-year fixed rate mortgage, 3.75 percent.

Mortgage rates could keep going down. Many people who have already refinanced are talking about doing it again. Only you can do the math. But again, these mortgage rates have never been this low.

Nancy Reagan is backing Mitt Romney for president. The former first lady had the Romneys over for cookies and lemonade yesterday. And she put out a written statement saying her late husband, quote, "Ronnie would have liked Governor Romney's business background and his strong principles and I have to say I do, too. I look forward to seeing him elected president in November."

Scary statistics. A new study says cancer cases are set to explode worldwide shooting up 75 percent by the year 2030. Take a look at these numbers. In 2008, there were 12.7 million people in the world diagnosed with cancer. Scientists expect that number to jump to 22.2 million by the year 2030. Most of those new cases are expected to come from poor countries that don't have proper infrastructure to deal with rising cancer rates.

This incredible surveillance video has gone viral. A woman lost control of her truck and barreled into Gordie's Place Bar in Little Canada, Minnesota. Earlier this morning we asked the bartender Pat Sazenski to relive the moment when he was inches from being crushed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT SAZENSKI, BARTENDER: I just moved to that spot like a minute before. I was trying to hear what Chuck, the customer at the end, was saying. As I walked over and leaned over the bar, I noticed a telephone pole going through the parking lot. I heard a bang and then the truck came through.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: Six people were hurt but everyone is expected to recover. The bar owner tells us that he plans to reopen as soon as possible -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Yes, we'll see. That looks like a lot of work they got to do on that place. That's a mess.

All right. Christine, thank you.

A bombshell revelation. A new book exposing President Obama's secret cyber war on Iran. Did he release an Internet weapon that could one day be used against the United States?

And apparently T is for torture. "Sesame Street" songs used to break down terror suspects at Gitmo. We'll take a look.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: A bombshell revelation to tell you about this morning. In the first few months after he was elected, President Obama secretly ordered ramped up cyber attacks on the computers that run Iran's main nuclear facilities. That is according to a report by David Sanger in "The New York Times."

It says that President Obama decided to significantly expand an operation called Olympic Games. It was a program that was started by the Bush administration by unleashing a worm called Stuxnet. It was developed by the United States and Israel, jointly, and at one point, it reportedly took out nearly a thousand centrifuges that Iran had operating at the time in order to purify uranium.

CNN Pentagon correspondent is Barbara Starr. Barbara, let's first talk about Stuxnet and then let's talk about Flame. Why is -- what do we know about these programs? I know the United States has acknowledged developing this kind of cyber warfare but really has not actually said that it's using it, correct?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, nobody has acknowledged it publicly, Soledad. That's right. Whether it's Stuxnet or Flame or any of these computer worms or viruses, this is some of the most classified secretive stuff going around the Pentagon, the White House, and the CIA these days.

This is cyber war. Stuxnet, as you said, was aimed for many years at going after specifically Iran's centrifuges, those spinning machines that purify the uranium. If you could wreck the computer system that ran them, you could make those breakdowns. You could stop Iran's nuclear development.

Under President Obama, by all accounts, and "The New York Times" laying it out, this type of warfare was significantly stepped up against Iran. You know, the question now, I guess, is how successful has it been? Has it really stopped Iran from going ahead with its nuclear programs?

But if you can do this kind of thing with a computer, you don't need to send B-52s over a country to drop bombs. This is really going to be the new leading edge way of doing business if they can -- Soledad.

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hey, Barbara, this is Will. I just want to impress upon that point you're making. Apparently, the big jump that was made here is that a cyber attack actually resulted in a physical attack, is that right? The worm led to the physical speed up of the spinning of the centrifuges resulting in their destruction?

STARR: That's what "The New York Times" is reporting, and that is pretty much what has been acknowledged. If you could make this worm get inside the system that ran the centrifuges, they would spin out of control. They would not spin with the very high-tech precision that was needed to purify the uranium.

So, you are talking about physical destruction. You're talking about getting the result you want, which is that Iran can't make that nuclear fuel, or at least, you're going to slow them down. A lot of people will tell you Iran has repaired some of this. They've moved ahead. They're trying to get it together.

But, you know, certainly, by all accounts, it slowed them down for a long time. It took them a while to figure out what was really going on inside their own plants.

HUNTSMAN: Barbara, this is Abby Huntsman here. Should we worry about a retaliation from the Iranians? I mean, do we know anything about their cyber capabilities? And is that a worry? STARR: You know, I think, Abby, you just really hit the nail in the head when you talk to people in the Pentagon in intelligence circles, they will tell you that -- when we talk about this being the leading edge of new war, what happens when somebody does it to the United States?

What happens if Iran or another, you know, so-called enemy country perfects their computer technology and they come after the U.S. banking system, the water and power system of a major American city?

And if you that cyber attack was coming against the United States, that's an act of war according to defense secretary, Leon Panetta, and would you take preemptive military action to stop that kind of attack against United States? This goes, you know, far beyond the Dr. Strange (ph) love stuff.

This now gets pretty serious. If you're going to have war in cyberspace, there are huge ramifications that, perhaps, nobody is quite dealing with just yet. It's a real area of concern for the U.S. military.

O'BRIEN: And how much of it can be controlled? We know that the worm got loose. The worm ended up replicating itself on the Internet. There was a problem with the worm or a problem with the coding.

STARR: That's exactly right. You know, technology can outpace reality these days pretty fast. So, if you unleash all of this technology, if Iran or North Korea or some country, China, is huge in cyber war, if they were hypothetically to come after the U.S. and that got into U.S. computer systems, where would it go?

It's one of the reasons that U.S. business and industry today is so concerned about cyber security and protecting their computer systems, because they know this is now an international grid. We're not isolated here in the United States. Our computer systems are vulnerable to attack virtually from anywhere in the world. So, the next time you open up your laptop and you see an e-mail that you're not too sure where it came from, really, don't open it.

O'BRIEN: You are not kidding. Barbara Starr, we should mention that the article in "The New York Times" is written by David Sanger's got a book coming out called "Confront and Conceal: Obama's Secret Wards and Surprising Use of American Power." I guess, that released on Tuesday. Thanks. Appreciate it, Barbara.

Still ahead this morning on STARTING POINT, Marilyn Monroe like you've never seen her before. Best-selling author, Lawrence Schiller, shares some rare pictures and some intimate stories about the private Marilyn that he knew.

Plus, no, no, anything but Barney. Actually, I love Barney. I have to love Barney. All I heard was Barney. We'll tell you how the purple dinosaur, apparently, is the nation's secret weapon in the war on terror. I didn't consider it torture. I considered it baby sitting. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(SINGING)

O'BRIEN: I like that song. I do. I have sung this very song a million times. Ernie singing the rubber ducky song. Is it enough to make you confess if, in fact, someone played it a thousand times? What about Cookie Monster? When he counts, you know, letters (ph) and the numbers.

(LAUGHTER)

HUNTSMAN: Or Elmo's whiney voice.

O'BRIEN: It's not whining. Teaching.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: Well, apparently, music from "Sesame Street" blaring on a loop for an entire day. There's a news documentary out that says interrogators force prisoners at Guantanamo Bay to listen to music from kids' shows, Barney, Sesame Street, for 24 hours straight in an effort to break them. Officials insist it wasn't torture, and the interrogators did not abuse the detainees.

CAIN: The obvious joke here is -- for at least, three of us, we have children on this panel, and I can say that Elmo does feel like torture often. But, are we really to accept that this is abuse of prisoners? Does anyone feel like this is torture?

HUNTSMAN: I think your play list would be a lot worse.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: Aw. But I love you, Abby, but aw.

(LAUGHTER)

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I don't think this is torture. I really don't. I mean, I think it's weird, and I think it's probably not likely to be successful, but I don't think it violates the Geneva convention as I understand them.

O'BRIEN: The officials say it's not torture, and that they weren't trying to torture the prisoners, but what is the goal, right? Because, clearly, they're putting on a loop for 24 hours. There's something you're trying to do. You're trying to unhinge people, annoy them.

CAIN: It's the same --

O'BRIEN: Set them up for some kind of --

CAIN: -- same as shining a light in a suspect's face while you're interrogating them. It's to make them uncomfortable. Take them out of that comfort zone and see if you can force truth out of them. I am not a CIA operative, obviously. I can't speak to whether it works or not, but I can't see any morality judgment where you say this is torture.

O'BRIEN: No, I would agree with you on that. I also -- I got to tell you, I don't find those songs torturous.

CAIN: That we disagree on.

O'BRIEN: But maybe that's because my children are now no longer listening to them.

TOOBIN: Twenty-four straight hours is little different.

O'BRIEN: Hey, there is many a moment I relied on that purple dinosaur. You sit right here in front of this TV. Mommy's got to do something.

(LAUGHTER)

CAIN: Call CPS (ph). (INAUDIBLE)

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: My daughter would be happy to lay it all out for you.

(LAUGHTER)

O'BRIEN: She's 11 now. She'll tell you the ways.

Still ahead this morning on STARTING POINT, we're just minutes away from the release of the crucial May jobs report. Christine is going to come back and break it all down for us. Plus, the reaction from the vice chairman of the Financial Services Committee, Texas congressman, Jeb Hensarling.

And Marilyn Monroe unfiltered. The photographer who spent days with the pinup girl dishes on what he says was her magic and also some of her insecurities. You're watching STARTING POINT. We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back. We're waiting for the big jobs report number for the month of May. Some people have predicted something like 150,000. Other people saying it may not make that. Obviously critical because it has economic implications and maybe even more importantly political implications as well.

TOOBIN: We cover the presidential campaign every day and frankly I think --

O'BRIEN: Really? I hadn't noticed.

TOOBIN: We cover a lot of noise or just stuff people talk about and doesn't matter. This matters. This is actually important in terms of the result of the campaign. Who is going to win?

O'BRIEN: You think it hinges on this number?

TOOBIN: It's not the only thing. I think it's a very significant thing.

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: This threatens to be noise if not put in the proper context and context is what does the trend look like over several months and what's workforce participation and how many people are looking for jobs.

O'BRIEN: Christine Romans as soon as the numbers come in will break that down for us and give us context.

CAIN: The unemployment number, the monthly unemployment numbers and job claims are one piece of evidence in how this economy is doing and not overestimate that.

O'BRIEN: But it will be clearly evidence if you use that word loosely when it comes to political ads. Whatever happens, we're going to see that tomorrow morning being released as a new political ad talking about economic trends.

HUNTSMAN: That's why the trend is so important. That sets the narrative for both campaigns depending on what the numbers are today. That will play out throughout the coming months. I think Obama and his team if the numbers aren't what they are hoping -- they are in a very difficult position. I mean, you can't argue that. It's really hard to say, you know, after the last four years are the American people's lives going to be better the next four years.

O'BRIEN: It's hard to put your hope on a graph and wait to see how that will come in. Christine knows how that graph will look.

ROMANS: Oh, 69,000 jobs created in the month, 69,000 and forecast was 150,000. You did not -- it's not good. It is 8.2 percent unemployment. So the unemployment rate went up, and you had 69,000 jobs created. You lost 13,000 jobs in government. That means the private sector created 82,000 jobs. That's not enough to keep up with growth and working age population.

And it confirms this slowdown that we've seen over the past couple of months. What's worse, April we thought it was 115,000 jobs. It was really 77,000. So April was worse than expected. And March, 11,000 fewer jobs in March created, only 143,000 there. So you have three months of less job creation than you thought.

Government jobs continue to shed. We've been watching the private sector. You want to see more private sector job creation than that. Here is the overall picture. Every month I bring this to you. This is that horrible jobs drought that we're still feeling the aftereffects of. This is the slow crawl out of it. And now we know really that you've seen three months -- it feels like last spring. I want to be honest with you. It feels like the momentum flagged last spring as well in the labor market and picked up speed in the fall. It's what it feels like again here. You had a couple of good months. Now this is the worst job creation in six months or so.

I mean, you guys can discuss politics of it. I'll tell you the numbers of it -- 69,000 jobs just is disappointing. And it confirms what we saw last month which was that it is lackluster jobs recovery.

CAIN: Christine, just so I'm clear. This is way below expectations, 150,000 by some estimates, 130,000 by other estimates. I heard no one talk about a number like this.

ROMANS: I wasn't hearing double digits. Triple digits. Economists were saying that if anything was going to be below -- if it was below 150,000, they would find that disappointing. You want to see numbers bigger than this to show the economy.

And it's something that's a trend for a few years are big companies are creating jobs, but they are creating more jobs overseas than they are here. The job creation that we've been seeing that's been more consistent is small and mid-sized companies that see demand come back and they can't go another second without getting -- I have the report in front of me. They have to add jobs overall.

I'm looking quickly to see what the demographic makeup. Basically little change in the unemployment rates overall. I mean, 8.2 percent, even though it went up a bit is still unchanged, 8.2 percent. The long-term unemployed those are people who are out of work for 27 weeks or longer rose a little bit here. They're now 42.8 percent of the people out of work for six months or longer. That's a real structural problem for the economy too. So I'll dig into numbers more for you and you can hash out politics.

O'BRIEN: Lots and lots and lots of bad news for us this morning. Thank you. We do appreciate the update.

Let's bring in Republican Congressman Jeb Hensarling from the great state of Texas. Am I right on that, Will Cain?

CAIN: That's right, the great one.

O'BRIEN: He is the chairman of the House Republican conference, the vice chairman of financial services committee. Nice to see you. Thank you for talking to us. And 69,000 -- there's no way to spin that as a good number certainly.

REP. JEB HENSARLING, (R) TEXAS: Well, absolutely not. It's very disappointing. It's just another confirmation that after three-and-a- half years the president's policies are still failing. After three- and-a-half years, we still have millions of Americans either unemployed or underemployed. It's 40 months now of eight percent plus unemployment when the president told us if we passed his stimulus plan it would never rise above eight percent.

If the president is going to threaten single largest tax increase in the history of America, provide us with serial trillion dollar deficits and double the amount of regulations on small business and entrepreneurs and then go out and vilify success in the free enterprise system this is what you get. It's disappointing, but the president's policies continue to fail average working Americans. Unfortunately many of them aren't working.

O'BRIEN: Christine broke down the government jobs and private sector job, and she said 82,000 private sector jobs gained. How much of this is a problem of these S&P 500 companies that have moved overseas, because when you look at their numbers of job growth, they are doing much better than we're doing here in the United States for those companies overseas.

HENSARLING: The question would be why is anybody wanting to move jobs overseas? And that is because the President's policies have failed and are helping send capital and sending jobs overseas.

I mean, the bigger story is just to have a tread the water economy you need 150,000 jobs to keep pace with new entries, and we received less than half of that. And they should probably know the real story is even worse, because if you look at the labor force participation rate that this monthly unemployment number is based upon, we have had millions just give up and leave the labor force.

O'BRIEN: Christine was just mentioning that a moment ago. But when you talk about why are jobs moving overseas and you say because this president. But really, jobs have been moving overseas for decades now. This is not in the last three years suddenly jobs started picking up from S&P 500 companies and moving overseas. It has been 20 plus years of jobs moving overseas because of better opportunities certainly overseas.

HENSARLING: Well, again, I'm not saying that the president created the problem. What I'm saying is he made it worse. It's less inviting for small business people and entrepreneurs to go out and create jobs when the president is again threatening a tax increase 40 percent of which will fall on small business income when he doubled the number of regulations on our small businesses and entrepreneurs. Those policies help send jobs overseas. We need fundamental --

TOOBIN: One of the striking things about this jobs report and several of the recent months has been that governments have been laying people off. The government hiring is -- just states and localities don't have money to hire people. One of the things you want to do is cut taxes and cut spending. Why do you want to see more layoffs of government employees when employment is going down in every -- when employment is such a problem?

HENSARLING: Number one, we have seen a huge buildup, particularly of the federal workforce. What we need is to promote economic growth and fundamental tax reform, and then frankly this couldn't necessarily have to be any layoffs. But you're not going to get fundamental -- you won't get economic growth with this president's policies.

And so what we saw for a long time under the Obama administration and under his stimulus program, which obviously has clearly failed, is we saw private sector jobs lose out while he was increasing federal payrolls whether they needed to be increased or not.

The main challenge is how do we get economic growth and Americans back to work and we won't get it when the president is threatening to increase taxes on small businesses, when he doubles the regulatory burden. You can't borrow and bailout our way to economic prosperity. And this whole politics of division and envy where the president fundamentally attacks free enterprise system, it's no wonder that businesses aren't going up and investing capital and creating new jobs. That has to change. The president's policies have failed, and that's why he turned to politics of division and envy. The American people have suffered but we can do better. We know what we need to do.

O'BRIEN: Congressman Jeb Hensarling joining us from Texas. Thank you. We appreciate it.

HENSARLING: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Still ahead this morning on STARTING POINT -- before we go to that, I want to recap for everybody -- 69,000 jobs have been created, which was way low. Christine and I were talking about this before the show started. She thought 150,000 sounded high to her, but that's what many estimates were. Now 69,000, devastating numbers, terrible numbers.

HUNTSMAN: And 8.2 unemployment. I think the big problem here is overall confidence of our country. I think that's the biggest issue that we're dealing with.

O'BRIEN: There are psychological impacts behind those numbers. You're right. You add that to the political implications and then the psychological implication is the three legs of the stool there, absolutely.

Ahead, we'll talk about some pictures never seen before of Marilyn Monroe and talk to the photographer behind those iconic prints. He'll join us next right here on STARTING POINT. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Marilyn Monroe would be 86 years old today if she had survived the drug overdose that took her life. A photographer saw her the day before she died. Just months earlier he took some iconic swimming pool shots. We are showing them to you. There they are right there. And in honor of the anniversary, he's opening up his archives including never before seen photos of the actress on display at an exhibit in New York, and also in two new books called "Marilyn and Me." Lawrence Schiller joins us this morning. It's so nice to see you.

LAWRENCE SCHILLER, PHOTOGRAPHER: Thank you for having me.

O'BRIEN: Tell me the story behind the pool shots, because in some ways the shots are unbelievable. But the story is heartbreaking, too.

SCHILLER: Well, you see I had met her originally in 1960 when I was 23. I photographed her for "Look" magazine but then the "Paris Match" the French magazine asked me to photograph her in 1962. I have a little more clips put behind me and I have a little more experience as Jeffrey knows I can be a little bit --

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: He has plenty of puts, no shortage.

SCHILLER: And -- and -- but what I didn't realize is that she was fighting so many demons in her life.

O'BRIEN: She was on the set of "Something's Got to Give" right?

SCHILLER: A movie called "Something's Got to Give", but she was being -- she was late every single day. She couldn't sleep at night and she was costing the studio millions of dollars. So she decided to use a weapon against the studio. And that was to show that she can garnish more publicity than Elizabeth Taylor could who was working for the same studio being paid a million dollars. She was only getting $100,000.

So she resorted to the only weapon she had left which was her body.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Did it work?

SCHILLER: And one day she said what would happen if I jumped in the swimming pool with the bathing suit on as the script says but come out with nothing on? And her press agent turned to her and said you're not kidding. You know you're just kidding, you know what is this all about? And she say, "No, I think I might just do it." And that's what she did seven days later.

ABBY HUNTSMAN, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Larry how would you describe -- what was the cause of her insecurity? As a woman when I look at her photos, I see her sex appeal. She's confident. She's beautiful. She's everything that a woman should be in these photos.

SCHILLER: Right.

HUNTSMAN: What caused that insecurity that ultimately led her to take her life?

SCHILLER: Well, look, I wasn't with her in her private moments. I didn't walk the beach with her. I wasn't with her at 2:00 in the morning when she wakes up. So I can't say it. To speculate, I think that as she became more and more desired by the studios, more and more a profit maker for motion pictures, she became very insecure.

It was easier for her to pose for still pictures where she didn't have to talk and she didn't have to walk. I think if she had to walk and talk at the same time, maybe inside she became very confused.

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You and I were talking Larry during the break, she died in 1962. Her fame you said began in the '40s.

SCHILLER: Right.

CAIN: She had something like an 18-year run of fame. Is there a modern day parallel, an example we can give to help us understand how famous was Marilyn Monroe?

SCHILLER: Well, you know, we don't remember Jean Harlow the same way and she died at a younger age than Marilyn Monroe. You know you hardly remember Marlene Dietrich so the great, great actresses of those periods, you don't remember.

Why do we remember Marilyn Monroe 50 years later? I believe it's because she never offended a woman. I believe that young girls, they don't mind if their boyfriends, women don't mind if their husbands look at the pictures. They themselves see this innocence and this insecurity and many people say to themselves, if I was there, I could have saved Marilyn Monroe. I would have helped her.

TOOBIN: Larry I was reading your book before (inaudible). What -- what was the story with Robert Kennedy?

SCHILLER: Well, I wasn't in the bedroom with them. But I was at the house one day bringing some pictures for her to approve. And I had stopped by a little earlier than I should have. And I'm in the backyard waiting for her and all of a sudden I see through the window Ed Gufnin (ph) you know walk in first and a minute later Bobby Kennedy walks in.

TOOBIN: Ed Gufnin was an aide to Robert Kennedy.

SCHILLER: Right.

TOOBIN: Right.

SCHILLER: He was an aide when Bobby was in the Justice Department and a Pulitzer Prize Winning writer as you know.

TOOBIN: A very good one.

SCHILLER: And you know later on I would work with Ed, photographing Bobby Kennedy's campaign. But you know they just walked out in the backyard waiting for Marilyn. And I'm on the other side of the pool. And you know I just kind of walked up and introduced myself. I had not met Bobby Kennedy before. And he was in a polo shirt and she comes out on the other side of the pool in a bathing suit, jumps in the water.

Kennedy's face kind of lights up and she starts swimming toward this side of the pool. And of course, in my mind ten days earlier I photographed her coming out of the pool with nothing on. So I wondered if that's what we're going to have. Of course she came out with her bathing suit.

But it was just a moment I saw them together. You know you can't prove a negative so I don't know really how deep that relationship was. O'BRIEN: You wrote a lot about how she wasn't -- the Marilyn that you knew was not the Marilyn that people talk about. That -- that she was sort of all of the bad stories, the drugs, the loneliness, you know -- that you saw something different. Who was the Marilyn that you knew?

SCHILLER: Well number one I saw this tremendously insecure woman who at one point when I was talking to her that my wife and I -- Judy my first wife, we were going to have our second child and all of a sudden she went almost inside of herself saying I want to have a baby but I can't have a baby. My mother was in a mental hospital. And then, I think she said something about her father attempting suicide.

And you know she got so much emotional and then she said my body rejects the baby but I want the baby. Then she snapped out of it. Just like a light switch. I saw those moments, which were very -- I also saw the very strong business calculating woman who said "When you publish these pictures Larry, I don't want to see Elizabeth Taylor on the cover or inside of any of those magazines."

I knew that was what was known as a condition of sale.

O'BRIEN: Yes you'd be right. All right, the book is "Marilyn and Me" by Lawrence Schiller, a beautiful book.

SCHILLER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: You can buy this size but also the really expensive version.

SCHILLER: A lot -- a lot of great pictures.

SCHILLER: We can get a shot of this. Look at this. And this is the $1,000 coffee table book. But it's -- wow. It's amazing.

SCHILLER: Yes. Well, this is -- this is a picture that my daughter says this picture says everything but shows nothing.

O'BRIEN: Yes that's very true. Lawrence Schiller nice to have you. Thanks for being with us this morning.

TOOBIN: Larry, my pal, Larry. Good to see you. We covered the O.J. case together.

SCHILLER: Yes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back. It's a familiar story line -- super heroes joining forces to tackle a world crisis. This week we catch up with three real life CNN heroes who are doing just that teaming up to help AIDS orphans in Africa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Marie De Silva was a nanny in the U.S. when she started a school for AIDS orphans in her native Malawi. Honored as a Top Ten CNN Hero in 2008, she's joined forces with two other honorees.

Magnus MacFarlane-Barrow was recognized in 2010 for his work feeding schoolchildren around the globe.

MARIE DA SILVA, TOP TEN CNN HERO 2008: He started his organization in Malawi. So I just asked him to consider us.

MAGNUS MACFARLANE-BARROW, TOP TEN CNN HERO 2010: I was very struck by her. I felt we were people who could work together.

DA SILVA: This is the stove.

COOPER: Today, Magnus's organization, Mary's Meals provides free porridge daily to all 400 of Marie's students.

MACFARLANE-BARROW: Am I giving them too much?

DA SILVA: His support means the children will always have something to eat. He is a saint to me.

COOPER: 2010 honoree Evans Wadongo makes solar lanterns for rural African communities. Evans visited Marie's school and recently his team taught students to build their own lamps.

DA SILVA: For the family, it cuts the cost and for the children it is helping them to study.

Evans really motivated our kids to be inventors. They have come up with their own little models.

COOPER: Now Marie's students plan to supply lamps to their community. With creativity and compassion, these CNN Heroes are helping each other to change even more lives.

DA SILVA: CNN Heroes coming together to work together. It's a family. How sweet is that?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: To nominate somebody that you know who is making a difference, go to cnnheroes.com.

End point is up next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: We have a minute for end point today. Who wants to start?

CAIN: I'll start. We had a nice conversation earlier this morning about whether or not coke is bad for you, whether or not that amount of sugar intake is good for your health or bad for your health. And we talked whether or not the regulation that Mayor Bloomberg is proposing will work.

I think we neglected to talk about two other angles I think are very, very important. Unintended consequences of every law, will it produce more plastic if you buy two bottles versus one although they are smaller. And I really think we need to focus on the morality of interfering in the concept of freedom even when you think someone might doing something better for themselves than they might be choosing on their own.

HUNTSMAN: It's all about personal responsibility at the end of the day.

We started with Edwards. So I'm going to I'll end with John Edwards. I think that this example of the trial that we've seen is really another example of the lack of trust between the American people and our institutions of power. Whether it's Congress does insider trading information or politicians rising above the law or riding with the law.

I think at the end of the day just like the ban on sugary drinks, it all comes down to our moral character and who we are as people.

O'BRIEN: We're out of time for you.

TOOBIN: Out of time.

O'BRIEN: So you're off the hook.

TOOBIN: My thought is have a good weekend.

O'BRIEN: Thank you and back at you also.

On Monday, we're talk to Ledisi, he's going to be joining us. He's got a new book out. We'll see you --

CAIN: You're the number one fan.

O'BRIEN: That's correct. "CNN NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello starts right now. Hey Carol, good morning.