CNN CNN


 

Return to Transcripts main page

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Pop Culture Connection with Butcher of Montreal?

Aired June 8, 2012 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Here`s what we`re talking about tonight. It`s a story that`s got everyone completely engrossed, and now there`s a fascinating Hollywood connection.

This is Luka Magnotta, who is desperate to become famous. Now he`s infamous, accused of unspeakable crimes, including murder. Tonight, new clues show he may have been influenced by some of our favorite Hollywood movies of all time. We`ll be delving into the pop culture connection next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, dark secrets just keep on spilling. Could the alleged decapitation killer, Luka Magnotta, be connected to the unsolved case of body parts found scattered near the Hollywood sign? Canadian cops say they`ve been contacted by the LAPD. Are there more victims out there?

Plus more toxic secrets about this alleged Butcher of Montreal surface. His ex-girlfriend speaks out. Can she provide a possible motive, and was he suffering big money problems?

Plus, Penn State`s Happy Valley braces for a litany of sordid sexual allegations. Legendary former coach Jerry Sandusky is accused of sexually abusing at least ten boys. As his accusers get ready to take the stand and face him in court, will Sandusky`s alleged love letters to boys surface as the smoking gun?

And he was totally buff but then packed on 70 pounds. Then he got totally buff again. How did he do that? And what was the point he was trying to prove. He`ll talk to us tonight.

LUKA MAGNOTTA, ALLEGED KILLER: Hi. My name is Luka. Magnotta is my last name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Killing and dismembering a man in Canada.

MAGNOTTA: Practice makes perfect, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first package containing appeared to be a human hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a really traumatic or difficult situation for absolutely everybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Human remains were discovered in separate packages mailed to two local area schools this afternoon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): The victim`s head is still missing.

NINA ARSENAULT, EX-GIRLFRIEND OF MAGNOTTA: Well, he said he would do anything to be famous. I didn`t think that he meant killing someone.

LARRY PELOSO, DIRECTOR, "COVER GUY": I had this chill that just ran right up my spine when I realized he`d auditioned for us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a real human being getting decapitated in front of the video, in front of the camera.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe that he was showing off his work.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Adding to the theory that Magnotta is a self-obsessed and fame-crazed individual.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew he was really strange, and he creeped me out for sure.

MAGNOTTA: A lot of people tell me I`m really devastatingly good looking, so...

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. Jane-Velez-Mitchell.

Stunning new information tonight in the case of the so-called Butcher of Montreal. Did Hollywood inspire Luka Magnotta`s sadism? And could an unsolved murder in Hollywood be connected?

Porn star pretty boy Luka Magnotta now in custody. Cops say he set up a video camera and deliberately videotaped himself murdering his ex-lover and then posting it online. Magnotta allegedly murdered this man, 33-year- old Jun Lin.

Now, Magnotta`s ex- says the unmentionable acts of a sexual nature caught on tape during the murder were all a desperate ploy for attention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARSENAULT: I think he took a lot of drugs and disassociated himself from the experience so he could decapitate someone so he could mutilate their body and then so he could actually simulate having sex with him, but I don`t actually think that it`s -- I don`t think it`s a real sex act. I think he`s a copycat psychopath.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A copycat psychopath. That`s how the ex- phrased it.

Certainly, Magnotta had stars in his eyes. He would seemingly do anything for attention, including by his own admission, prostitution and porn. He seems to believe he had fans. Watch this from YouTube.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGNOTTA: What`s up? And hi to all my fans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Madonna`s song playing in the background there, "La Isla Bonita."

Another possibility, Magnotta motivated to murder by movies about serial killers? New clues connect his alleged snuff film with details from some very famous movies: "Basic Instinct" and "American Psycho." Those details in a moment.

And could this suspect be connected to an unsolved Hollywood murder?

Straight out to Joe Warmington, reporter for the Sun News Network out of Toronto.

You spent time with Luka Magnotta. You interviewed him long before this crime spree. What do you make of the comments -- these new comments now from his ex-, who says, "Well, he was acting"? When you act, you don`t actually kill. Cops say this guy killed.

JOE WARMINGTON, REPORTER, SUN NEWS NETWORK: Well, I mean, it`s a ridiculous statement in the fact that the head is still missing, and the limbs are all over the place. And people are all across this country and now the United States and also, obviously, in Europe are following the story.

But nothing would surprise me with this.

What I want to know is who is working with him, and who`s shielded him and who`s paid some of the bills and these kinds of things. And I know where I`d start, right off the bat.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. So that`s interesting, because the sense that I`ve gotten the whole time was that he was acting alone. But now we`re hearing he had tremendous money problems.

Jon Lieberman, HLN contributor, investigator, if you have tremendous money problems, to the point where he almost went into bankruptcy or did because he couldn`t pay tolls and things like that, how do you get from New York to Hollywood and then off to Europe, to France, to Berlin? That costs a lot of money.

JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, and that`s why police believe he was prostituting. He was selling himself for sex. He was getting cash for escort -- escorting services and things like that, because you hit the nail on the head.

But the horrifying thing here is now we believe that he has spent time in New York City. He spent time in Miami. He spent time in L.A., London, Berlin. This is a worldwide investigation.

Now, and to your point, police believe he may have multiple accomplices. One thing they`re looking at is surveillance video from that post office up in Canada where he allegedly mailed these body parts from. They want to see on the surveillance video who actually sent these packages. Was it Luka or was it somebody else?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. The idea that somebody else may have assisted him in allegedly sending these parts, that is extraordinarily disturbing, extraordinarily disturbing.

And there are so many unanswered questions. Luka Magnotta looks handsome and fit in this audition tape, but apparently, he wasn`t always that way. Take a look at this. And listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGNOTTA: I used to be really overweight, and I lost the weight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you do that?

MAGNOTTA: I just got up every morning at, like, 4 a.m. and like ran constantly. And people would tell me stop running, stop running, and I just kept doing it, basically.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He`s obviously good at running. Remember, he ran to Europe where he was apprehended in an Internet cafe. Magnotta accused of sending his victims` body parts to a schools in Vancouver and to politicians in Ottawa. But the victim`s head is still missing.

Mike Brooks, HLN law-enforcement analyst, could this be the big finale, that this head is going to show up in the mail, especially if Jon Lieberman suggested, if he has accomplices who might still be out there helping him?

MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: There`s a very good possibility. And did he have any kind of storage facility that he could have kept this body and more bodies in, possibly?

And the connection to Los Angeles, I think that is going to be -- definitely be looked at as well as the other cities where he`s been. His computer, what -- who is he communicating with? Who is he talking to? These are all big, big pieces of evidence that they could glean, possibly, from the phones that the Canadian authorities and the United States authorities. And if I`ve got any open cases anywhere similar to this, Jane, I`m going to be taking a look at this guy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A terrifying connection has surfaced between the murder video Luka allegedly posted online and the Christian Bale movie "American Psycho." Watch this from the film`s trailer on YouTube.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIAN BALE, ACTOR: Sabrina, why don`t you dance a little? Kristin, get down on your knees. We`re not through yet.

REESE WITHERSPOON, ACTRESS: You`re inhuman.

BALE: I know my behavior can be erratic sometimes.

Hey, Paul. (SCREAMING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, God, I despise violent movies like that. I refuse to go see them.

Now, in that movie, Christian Bale plays a secret killer who also videotapes his victims. But here`s the eerie part. The music in Luka Magnotta`s video where he`s killing somebody, allegedly, is the very same song used at the beginning of "American Psycho," the song "True Faith" by New Order.

So I want to ask Jeff Brown. You`re a former prosecutor. You`ve covered many, many sick crimes. Could this be a clue that he was influenced by this graphic movie?

JEFF BROWN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes, you know, oftentimes you`ll find the clients in cases like this will try to copycat what they`ve either read, what they`ve seen, other movies like that. So clearly, I mean, that is something that the prosecutor are going to be looking at, the investigators are going to be looking at.

And hopefully -- hopefully, for their sake, they`re going to be able to interview him, because nothing is more powerful than a confession. And they still have to prove that`s him on that video and that that body was actually alive at the time he began these gruesome acts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CALLER: This is Valerie in California, and what I really would like to know is where are their families? What are their families thinking about them? I would love to know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARSENAULT: Yes, well, he said he would do anything to be famous. I didn`t think that he meant killing someone. I thought he meant doing -- being a porn star.

I don`t believe the sex acts. I don`t find them convincing. I think, even though someone was killed, I think he was performing the sociopath. I think he`s performing the role of a psychopath, because he wanted to be legendary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: With all due respect, that ex-girlfriend of the suspect, Luka Magnotta, I think that person is a little deluded, because when you`re acting, you don`t actually kill.

Police say that Luka Magnotta set up a video camera and videotaped an actual murder. So that person, I think, is very, very confused, maybe some kind of psychological enabler, rationalizer, co-dependent, I don`t know.

She`s invited on our show any time. I`d love to talk to her.

Another movie that may have influenced Luka Magnotta was the 1992 hit "Basic Instinct." Watch it from YouTube, and you`ll know exactly what I`m talking about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got 31 stab wounds.

MICHAEL DOUGLAS, ACTOR: What was it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ice pick.

(WHISTLES)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, Sharon Stone in that movie kills with an ice pick. And, of course, Magnotta`s alleged snuff film is entitled "1 Lunatic, 1 Ice Pick." And the movie begins with a victim who is tied up in bed, just like the victim, Jun Le [SIC], in real life was tied up in bed, allegedly, his face, according to cops, covered with a mask before he was viciously attacked and murdered.

Now, I have to go back to Joe Warmington, the reporter for the Sun News Network. You have spent time with Luka Magnotta. Do you think indeed that Hollywood essentially taught him to kill? That he took a page from Hollywood and figured, in his sick mind, "Well, if it`s OK for it to be happening on film, I can do it, too"?

WARMINGTON: Well, Jane, I do think that whatever`s happened here is - - definitely has Hollywood`s stamp all over it. Everything, all of which you`ve mentioned here.

Even when he was in Berlin, when he got on the bus, he used a name out of "Basic Instinct" to get a bus ticket.

The game called -- the video game called "Ripper," starring Christopher Walken, a video game, Walken`s character`s name was Magnotta. You know, the songs were all from 1987.

So the theme is there. The picture of him with the Hollywood sign in behind from 2007, you know, it`s just too much there to not have a thorough, as your other guest mentioned, Jane, a thorough worldwide, everyone get together and figure out just where this guy has been.

And he hasn`t always been there as himself. You know he has all kinds of identities and passports, et cetera, so this is going to get a very strong look and fast.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are so right when you say that this character in the movie is named Magnotta. I spoke to animal rights activists who have been hunting this guy for years, because he allegedly tortured kittens and killed them and put those videos online. And they don`t believe that Luka Magnotta`s his real name at all.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Michelle, Alabama. Your question or thought, Michelle?

CALLER: Hi, Jane. Thank you for having me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.

CALLER: I have a couple of points to make. One of the points is that there`s not much mention of the dog in the video that was forced to partake in cannibalism. I know that`s horrible. And I was wondering where is the dog?

And perhaps maybe the head isn`t, like, anywhere to be found because perhaps the dog ate it. I mean, I know this sounds horrible...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Michelle, you`re actually raising some good points.

Jon Lieberman, investigative reporter. This sicko allegedly brings in a dog -- and I don`t want to get too graphic here -- but after this victim was murdered to partake of the flesh, and people have been asking, what happened to the dog? Because this man is known for torturing animals, allegedly. Could he have then tortured the dog and killed the dog, as well?

LIEBERMAN: Absolutely. I mean, that`s something else that law enforcement is looking into. A few nights ago right here, I spoke about watching that video and seeing the dog go in the room and...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But we don`t want to get too graphic.

LIEBERMAN: I`m not going to get into the details of it, but it is certainly something that is important to investigators as well as they continue looking for clues.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this is all in Canada where the killing allegedly occurred, so it`s not even American investigators.

Now, there`s a potential Hollywood connection. On this unedited audition tape, Magnotta acts like a star waiting to be discovered by Hollywood. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGNOTTA: I have a very deep voice. A lot of people tell me that, actually.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get your voice so deep?

MAGNOTTA: How do I get my voice so deep? Practice makes perfect, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, did Magnotta go to Hollywood? The answer is yes. The question is was he there last year when a severed head and other limbs were found scattered near the Hollywood sign?

The Sun newspaper reports back in January, when the head was discovered, Magnotta was living in Los Angeles and working as a prostitute there. Today, the Los Angeles Police Department told us, quote, "Our investigators are in contact with Canadian investigators are trying to determine Magnotta`s whereabouts during the time of the Hollywood Hills murders."

Ten seconds, Mike Brooks, could there be a connection?

BROOKS: Never say never when it comes to sickos like this, Jane. Absolutely. And that`s why they`re looking into it. Otherwise they would have totally discarded it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is far from being over. The investigation has brought us to the suspect and the questions beside that. Are there another possible homicide or other crime linked to that person? That will be investigated, for sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Luka Magnotta was struggling to be famous. He was also financially desperate. Watch this unedited audition. He`s practically begging to be cast in this reality show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGNOTTA: Practice makes perfect, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have your hair colored.

MAGNOTTA: No, actually, I just got it highlighted and changed things up a bit. I have no problem gaining weight. I can gain weight if I need to gain weight. I can gain muscle. Anybody can gain muscle. I`m very determined and every goal that I put my mind to I surpass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But he didn`t get that part and he was so desperate because he needed money. In 2007 he declared bankruptcy. Take a look at his expenses. Luka owed $500 in a gym membership, $1,400 in cell phone bills.

But Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst, he also owed $2,500 in back rent and almost 7 grand in car payments, $800 in parking tickets, and $200 in unpaid highway tolls. And I`ve got to tell you, Mike, when you can`t play a toll you are really flat broke.

BROOKS: Exactly. And that`s going to be one of the other things they`re going to be looking at, obviously, are his bank statements. Where is he getting the money to travel to all these different places? Where is he getting money to, you know, subsist on? These are things they`re going to be looking into, because when you ask someone who`s engaged or allegedly engaged in prostitution and things like that, a lot of times they may have someone who`s giving them money on a regular basis, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Lieberman, we were talking about this unsolved murder near the Hollywood sign. How can American cops work with the international authorities to try to solve that case?

LIEBERMAN: American cops want to get his DNA in their hands and it appears that investigators overseas got his DNA from inside of a hotel room in Paris where he stayed while he was a fugitive. If U.S. investigators can get a hold of that DNA, they`ll run it through CODIS, through the DNA database here, and see if anything pops up. And they`ll use it to help them in that L.A. case to match with whatever foreign DNA they have on those body parts that they found out in L.A.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a case about a sexual predator.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shock waves hit the community of State College, Pennsylvania.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many more children do you expect to come forward, Jerry?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fifty-two counts of sexual abuse from allegations dating back to 1995.

JERRY SANDUSKY, FORMER PENN STATE ASSISTANT FOOTBALL COACH: All of a sudden these people turn on me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegations he raped one boy in the shower at Penn State.

JOE AMENDOLA, ATTORNEY FOR SANDUSKY: People said to me, "How could you let him say he was in the shower with the kids?" How could we not let him say that? He was.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he has entered a plea of not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a pair of university big wigs are accused of covering it all up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Serious questions this morning about how the legendary leader of the Nittany Lions, Joe Paterno, handled this case when it crossed his desk nine years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Paterno is no longer the head football coach, effective immediately.

JOE PATERNO, FORMER PENN STATE FOOTBALL COACH: Thanks. Pray for those victims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A child rape trial set to get under way as Jerry Sandusky`s last-ditch effort to avoid charges denied. The legendary former Penn State assistant football coach accused of sexually assaulting ten boys over 14 years.

Just a few hours ago a judge rejected all the defense reasons to have the 52 charges thrown out. He`s facing 52 charges.

Eight of Sandusky`s accusers are scheduled to take the stand. We expect to hear riveting testimony about alleged love letters from Sandusky, alleged rapes inside campus showers and claims the coach used his Second Mile charity to groom young boys. When Sandusky was arrested last fall, and iconic coach Joe Paterno was fired, the small town of State College erupted in chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROWD YELLING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Opening statements start Monday, and we`re going to be all over it on this show.

Two months after Paterno was fired he died of lung cancer. When Sandusky responded on the horrifying allegations on NBC`s "Rock Center," he just added fuel to the fire. Listen to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDUSKY: I have horsed around with kids. I`ve showered after workouts. I have hugged them, and I have touched their leg without intent of sexual contact, but...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A jury of Sandusky`s peers has now been seated. I mean peers, literally. About half of these jurors have connections to Penn State. One of them even has ties to the state`s star witness. How on earth can this jury be impartial?

Straight out to Lauren Book, sexual abuse survivor and victims` advocate. You testified against your nanny. You said she abused you for years.

Give us insight into what these alleged victims go through as they take the stand and face this very powerful man they once idolized, who they say groomed and sexually abused them?

LAUREN BOOK, VICTIMS ADVOCATE: Jane, this is a very big day for these survivors. It`s their day in court and a really scary day because they`re going to be facing the man that have been in their nightmares for years and years and years. It`s a scary day and I do hope they get their day in court. I can`t imagine that six of the jurors have ties to Penn State.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That disturbs you?

BOOK: It does. I don`t know how they`re going to get -- you know, if I was the state I would not be happy about it. If I was one of those victims I wouldn`t be happy about it either.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. It`s a small town and while you might say in a global village, a change of venue doesn`t mean anything, this is a very -- I think there`s a lot of questions surrounding this jury makeup.

Now this is arguably the biggest scandal to ever hit college sports. The controversy rocked this small college town where Penn State -- you know, football is king, obviously.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(RIOT AT PENN STATE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s take a look at the 16 jurors including four alternates; You have ten women and six men. Eight of the 16 jurors have Penn State ties, among them a student, an alum, two professors and two employees.

Juror number 3 has a direct connection to the state`s star witness. Her husband works with Mike McQueary`s dad. We`re going to tell you about McQueary in a second.

Juror number five graduated from Penn State. Juror number 10 works at Penn State. Juror number 11 works there part-time; her husband works there full time. She also knows one of the potential witnesses. Juror number 12 has been a Penn State professor for 24 years.

Jeff Brown, criminal defense attorney, could this cut both ways? I mean obviously there`s fierce loyalty to this school, but could they make them want to punish Sandusky or just try to make it all go away by acquitting him?

JEFF BROWN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that the prosecution is looking at this case and saying here is a revered figure, an icon that was brought down and at the end of the day the only person to really blame for that is not really Penn State. It`s Sandusky. I mean he`s the reason that Paterno got fired. He`s the reason Penn State is in this massive scandal.

So I think at the end of the day, the prosecution is thinking that these jurors what they feel that way -- this is the guy in this courtroom that caused all that, that caused this institution that they loved to be in the scandal.

I understand why they`re doing this. If I`m a defense lawyer, boy, this is the last I would want this case to be tried because of those very fears. I would want this case to be brought in front of people who had no idea who he was and which I can then argue that these are making this up. But a defense attorney -- this is a defense attorney nightmare.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. We`ll have to wait and see. ABC News reports Sandusky wrote, quote, "creepy love letters to his accusers". The first witness scheduled to be victim number four and he`s writing about intimate letters, cards from Sandusky. He also gave the victim four gifts including a set of golf clubs. Sandusky he tried to explain his affection for children to the NewYorkTimes.com.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY SANDUSKY, ACCUSED MOLESTER: If I say no, I`m not attracted to boys, that`s not the truth because I`m attracted to young people, boys, girls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but not sexually. You`re attracted because you enjoy spending time.

SANDUSKY: Right. I enjoy -- that`s what I was trying to say. I enjoy spending time with young people. I enjoy spending time with people. I mean my two favorite groups are the elderly and the young.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to Bob Dvorchak, author of "Game Over" a very, very in-depth book about this entire scandal. First of all, boy, we`re all shaking our heads and going wow -- including Jeff Brown, criminal defense attorney -- when we`re listening to Jerry Sandusky. I mean can I say, to me personally, he sounds creepy. Was that the sense that you got after investigating this case?

BOB DVORCHAK, AUTHOR, "GAME OVER": Jane I think, if you wanted to draw on a blackboard the portrait of a pillar of a community, you take a famed football coach and the founder of a charity with a biblical name, the male Mother Teresa of central Pennsylvania and yet these allegations and his appearances fly in the face of that image. It`s a remarkable case all the way around.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jeff Brown, you were when we were listening to Jerry Sandusky, you were going "wow, wow" -- why?

BROWN: What a nightmare. I mean those statements -- I mean you just play statement in front of anybody and I think everybody`s reaction is "Oh, my gosh, I can`t believe that he`s saying these things. I mean he`s almost admitting without actually saying it without saying the words "I abused them."

And if I`m the prosecutor, what a great piece of evidence; you play this in front of a jury and then you say here`s some other evidence that backs this up. He`s done. I mean when that came out and I just stepped back and said I cannot imagine a defense attorney that would ever in a million allow the client to go on and give an interview and say things like that. That is just -- it`s just unheard of for a good defense attorney.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very quickly, Jeff Brown, do you think that kind of tape is going to be played in front of the jury?

BROWN: Oh, absolutely. The defendant`s statement -- that`s coming in. That`s the thing that people sometimes don`t grasp. There`s lots of hearsay rule, but a statement by the defendant that`s against his interest, that is coming in the courtroom, no matter who took it, no matter where it`s found, it comes in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lauren Book, abuse survivor and advocate. He tried to sort of breezily explain it away. Oh, I love children -- these love letters that victims say they got, those were innocuous. Is that a denial mechanism?

BOOK: Absolutely. And you know what? If there was a dictionary picture of what a child molester looks like, there would be Jerry Sandusky`s picture. It`s textbook, when you read the jury procurement -- the grand jury procurement. Grooming process, grooming process, grooming process -- he targeted these children. He went after them and hopefully, you know, he gets the sentence he deserves.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sandusky`s attorney will try to discredit the star witness for the state, Mike McQueary. He`s the assistant football coach who says he saw Sandusky raping a boy in the showers. He`s also going to try to discredit some of the victims.

Norwood Young, sexual abuse survivor and author of "Getting Back to Me", what`s it going to be like when these young men take the stand and then they`re attacked by the defense attorneys -- and this is the star witness -- but he`s going to do the same thing to these victims, we hear.

NORWOOD YOUNG, SEXUAL ABUSE SURVIVOR: Jane, I feel so terribly bad for these victims because it`s like they`re going to be reliving the rape again. They`ve gone through many of their years trying to deal with this monstrosity and trying to deal with this emotionally and all of a sudden everything is going to be exposed. Their names, the actions, how things took place; and this will have to be done in specifics. So for the victims, I feel the terrible for them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s your "Viral Video of the Week". Hit it Casey (ph).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m a drum instructor. If you want to take lessons from me you`ll be a (inaudible) drummer in no time. I can even teach animals how to play.

Check it out. Casey, give me a beat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DREW MANNING, AUTHOR, "FIT2FAT2FIT": It`s been a month since I started my fit to fat journey and I already gained almost 21 pounds. You can`t tell, but this right here wasn`t there before.

Anyway, so I have one bite down of my seventh and it`s not that I can`t do it. It`s just no desire. It`s so gross.

My strength is gone. My endurance. Oh, man. Ok. Due to my beer belly, I can`t touch the ground. Oh, my gosh.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A year-long journey from fit to fat, back to fit again. Drew Manning, personal trainer, made himself obese on purpose so he could walk in his overweight client`s shoes. He took on challenges -- eat things like sugar, fast food, white bread, pasta, soda and he stopped working out.

And the results so fast, the six pack went away and a surprising weight gain of 72 pounds in just six months. Take a look at these photos, did you see him. He went from 193 pounds to 265 pounds. He packed on 13.5 inches around his waist.

And then in the following six months he decided, well, I`m going to go back to being fit. He shed all of the weight. He succeeded. Oh, my gosh.

Joining me now the author of "Fit2Fat2Fit", Drew Manning and his wife Lynn; Drew, I think this is fascinating. Tell us, first of all, it was probably easy gaining the weight, but then what were the challenges losing the weight again?

D. MANNING: Yes, losing the weight wasn`t so much challenging, just physically. Actually it was hard to do push-ups again and run and things like that. But it was more also challenging mentally and emotionally going back into the gym now. Instead of being the fit guy, I was the overweight guy now who is struggling to do push-ups on my knees even. So in a way it was very humbling.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s the thing. You`ve got to understand. You describe yourself as kind of a judgmental guy, one of these perfectly fit guys. We all know him. He`s walking around the gym and he`s got a perfect body and his wife has a perfect body and disgustingly perfect as you might say and has kind of contempt for those who were not so perfect.

Now you`ve got to literally walk in their shoes. What did you learn about what people who are struggling with their weight are going through?

D. MANNING: Yes, there is the biggest thing I took away from this whole journey was that it`s not so much just about the physical, about what you eat or how you exercise. It`s more so about the mental and emotional challenges that come with the weight gain and the weight loss. Whereas before I focused so much on the physical saying -- telling people look, you need to eat this or you need to work out like this.

All of that is important, but unless you understand the psychological aspect of losing weight, it`s just going to be another diet program that you`re on and the key is to understanding how to overcome those mental and emotional issues which is what I talked about in my book of how to do it. And that`s the key to making whatever program you`re on a lifestyle rather than just another diet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Lynn, you wrote a chapter for the book. What was your experience as your husband changed and got very heavy, gained 72 pounds? I guess he became obese. How did that change your relationship?

LYNN MANNING, WIFE OF DREW MANNING: Yes, you know, it was really difficult and a lot of people oversimplify the situation and say he was so fit before and then he got fat and you just didn`t love him because of that. And of course it`s the love too, but our attraction like it was a different dynamic.

And my attraction did decrease. But it really was the emotional aspect. Like he really lost his energy when he was overweight and eating those types of foods. He wasn`t helping around the house. He wasn`t able to play with our kids the same way and he lost all his self-confidence. Like him to be self-conscious even in front of me, it changes the dynamic of the relationship and it did. It made it very difficult on us as a couple when he went through this journey.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re very excited to tell you the Daytime Emmys are coming to HLN. This year`s presentation will feature tributes to beloved shows that recently finished their runs. You can watch the Daytime Emmy Awards live Saturday, June 23rd 8:00 p.m. Eastern only here on HLN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you`re saying that your mood goes up once you start eating?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, lately every time I eat I feel 100 percent better.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Huh, so it seems like you`re starting to get addicted to it now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So that was the famous movie "Super Size Me" where the director Morgan Spurlock went out and ate only fast food, gained weight, felt sicker and it was all an effort to prove how bad fast food is for us.

And I want to go back to our amazing couple. Did you find the same experience? Morgan Spurlock said that he began craving the junk food. When you were eating it, did you find yourself becoming kind of hooked on it?

D. MANNING: Yes, for example, in the beginning I really forced myself to drink soda because I didn`t really drink it before, of course. And then towards the end of the six months, if I didn`t have my Mountain Dew twice a day, I would get the headaches, the grumpiness, the moodiness.

And so for me I definitely felt attached to things like soda and I had to have my cinnamon toast crunch cereal twice a day. Little things like that, I definitely became accustomed to as the months went on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And was your wife sort of tempted by it? Were you tempted at all to sort of dive in, too, as an excuse? Because, no, I mean the studies show that if you`re hanging around people who are eating badly, you`re going to eat badly and gain weight as well.

L. MANNING: You know what; it actually kind of had a reverse effect upon me because it was around so often and because he started feeling so horrible, like he was constantly complaining about how he felt and how he looked and because of his energy levels went down, it kind got me thinking. I was like, ok, I didn`t think these foods were that bad either. Are these doing the same effects on him, doing it to me even though I`m not packing on the pounds like him?

And so I actually started eating healthier and lost weight as he gained weight.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to say I admire this experiment. I`m glad you`re back to your perfect physique. You guys are a beautiful couple.

D. MANNING: Thanks Jane.

L. MANNING: Thanks Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve been eating an apple and drinking eight glasses of water and eating my fruits and veggies as part of our adventure to slim. So all I can say is -- thank you for doing that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gut-wrenching footage from an undercover investigation sending shock waves through the U.S. --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re talking about standard industry practices that are so inhumane. In addition to these cruelties we found malicious and sadistic abuse by workers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are these people trying to hide? Why are they so desperate to keep cameras out of these factory farms?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight on the heels of a huge debate sparked by McDonald`s new promise to phase out using pig gestation crates, the factory farming industry is starting to realize that people, consumers, are standing up and they are saying, no, we do not want these animals, these farm animals, being treated so cruelly.

And now the focus tonight is on chickens. Billions of chickens are kept in cages; tiny, cramped cages, with no room to spread their wings at all. Watch this.

It`s not pleasant to watch but we must so that we can bear witness and decide together to change things. Now these chickens have less than half the size of a sheet of standard sized paper per hen -- only 67 square inches to live on. This is how much room they have for their entire lives.

Straight out to my very special guest, Farm Sanctuary`s Bruce Friedrich; Bruce, there is a new bill in Congress, HR-3798 or the egg bill which aims to double the amount of space for hens in factory farms. What are your thoughts on that tonight?

BRUCE FRIEDRICH, FARM SANCTUARY: Well, at Farm Sanctuary, we know hens as individuals. We actually provide lifelong care for more than a thousand farm animals. So we would know more cram a hen into a cage for her entire life than we would do that to a dog or a cat or any animal. And, in fact, the battery cages as you were rightly pointing out, the animals get about 67 square inches per bird. The cages are about 18x20 inches and they cram five hens in each cage is the industry standard. Some liquid egg hens are crammed 10 and 11 hens into these cages. They`re literally living one on top of the other.

So physiologically the animals` muscles and bones completely deteriorate from lack of use, psychologically the animals go completely insane. What this legislation would do, and it takes too long to do it and the conditions are not what anybody watching would think of as good, but the cages are about 20 times as large. The stocking density is half. So instead of having five hens in an 18x20 inch wire mesh cage you have 50 hens in a 4 foot by 12 foot cage.

Is that good conditions? No, it`s not good conditions, but it is significantly better than what`s happening now. It has bipartisan support. We have people like Dan Burton and Scott Brown and David Vitter on the Republican side. We have people like Jim Moran and Dianne Feinstein and Joe Lieberman and others on the Democratic side.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say this, if you want to get involved, I want it to tell people how to get involved because you`ve been very courageous to watch this unpleasant video. Now you can do something about it. You can go to the site eggbill.com, Eggbill.com, and you can find out all the information you need to be a part of this change. Let your congress members know, the Senate and the Congress know you want the conditions for these factory farm animals, these chickens, to improve.

END