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NANCY GRACE

Man Murders Ex-Wife in Front of Children, Then Calls 911

Aired June 12, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Grove City. Police race to the scene after a young boy frantically calls 911, but his phone is quickly taken away by Daddy to report Mommy needs help. She needs help, all right!

Bombshell tonight. When Mommy comes to pick up her 4-year-old little girl, Daddy goes in to fetch her, but he comes out not with the toddler girl, Daddy comes out with a 12-inch knife blade and stabs Mommy to death in broad daylight right in front of his own children. Then he proceeds to speak to 911 cool as a cucumber. Was Mommy`s murder touched off by her new engagement, this two full years after divorcing Daddy?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: What`s going on there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m serious. We can discuss all the details when you get here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The murdered woman`s 13-year-old son can be heard on the call saying, quote, My dad just killed my mom, he just told me to call you guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My ex-wife, and she`s at (INAUDIBLE) my apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chased down, fatality stabbed.

911 OPERATOR: What`d you do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s covered in a blanket. You guys will see.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A mother of three was picking up two of her children at her former husband`s home.

911 OPERATOR: You got any weapons there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only one is outside with he.

911 OPERATOR: The only one -- what was it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a knife.

911 OPERATOR: A knife?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

911 OPERATOR: Did you cut her or...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, like I said, when you guys get here, we can work out all the details.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother says every time he opens his eyes, he sees my mother safe (ph) and her yelling, Help me, and he sees my dad standing there with her blood all over him and the knife in his hand!

911 OPERATOR: So your sister is (INAUDIBLE)

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait. One more hug!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, a 2-year-old baby boy vanishes without a trace after Mommy hands the boy off, she says, to women wearing burqas? Tonight, where is toddler boy Dwight Stallings?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Sacramento mother allegedly claims she gave her baby boy away to complete strangers, to women who were unknown to her and dressed in burqas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I seen his face. You know, I remember his face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His mother never reported him missing, although she won`t tell investigators where he is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s been very uncooperative and given us several different accounts of where this baby has gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know where he is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tunisha Edwards (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sheriff`s department says toddler Dwight Stallings hasn`t been seen...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How could a baby boy go missing without anyone seeming to care?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators are hoping someone, anyone may have seen Dwight Stallings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight. To Grove City. When Mommy comes to pick up her 4- year-old little girl, Daddy goes in to fetch the child, but he comes out not with the toddler girl. Daddy comes out with a 12-inch blade knife and stabs Mommy to death in broad daylight right in front of his and her own children.

Was Mommy`s murder touched off by her new engagement? This is two full years after she legally divorces Daddy, after she files a restraining order to protect her from Daddy. This was an ordinary, routine pick-up of her daughter to bring her back home. She lived with Mommy. She was visiting Daddy. She goes to pick the baby up.

Her other little boy ends up calling 911, crying, screaming into the phone. He`s looking at his mom lying there with a hunting knife sticking out of her chest. Then Daddy takes the phone away from the boy -- calm, cool and collected on the call to 911.

Now, a lot of people are saying the whole thing was touched off by Mommy`s new engagement to another man. No, no, no! You don`t touch off a murder. And I don`t want to see this woman`s death somehow reduced to a domestic incident. Oh, no!

Out to Phil Trexler, reporter with "The Akron Beacon-Journal." Phil, thank you for being with us. What happened, Phil?

PHIL TREXLER, "AKRON BEACON-JOURNAL" (via telephone): Yes, Nancy, this is one of those cases that just shocks the senses, you know, in a number of ways. It`s horrifying in the sense that because of the sheer brutality in the stabbing death of Candice Roberts, but it`s also heart- wrenching, you know, in another sense, that this, you know, murder was carried out in front of these two young children and was, in fact, committed by their own father. It`s just -- it`s horrific.

Jeremy Roberts is being -- he`s the father. He`s being charged with murder. He`s being held under a $250,000 bond. They`re looking for a motive, but you know, really, I don`t know if there is and ever can be a motive for something as, you know, horrific brutal as this, just, you know, the brutality of it all and the horrifying death of seeing, you know, a young mother killed, stabbed repeatedly in front of her own two children.

GRACE: And Dave Mack, Phil Trexler is correct, a lot of people are looking for motive tonight. But the reality is, the state never has to prove motive in a case because that would ask a prosecutor to crawl into the mind of a killer, and in my mind, in this case, a premeditated killer because he went inside to allegedly -- he faked off the mom, said that he was going inside, that he had to change the little girl`s clothes quickly.

Instead, he came outside. Jeremy Robertson came outside with a 12- inch blade hunting knife and stabbed Mommy to death in broad daylight. He clearly intended this, Dave Mack. Dave Mack is morning talk show host with WAAX. Go ahead, Dave.

DAVE MACK, WAAX: Well, Nancy, that`s exactly what happened. You know, you said premeditated. Look, she was there on a quick pickup. You know, they had spent the night. She shows up. She leaves her car running in the parking lot.

She goes in, stands at the door. Maybe they had an argument, I don`t know. But he says, I`m going to go and change her clothes. I`ll be right back. He doesn`t come down with the 4-year-old, he comes down with a knife, chases her out of the yard, stabs her multiple times, and then tells the 13-year-old, Hey go call 911, tell them what I just did.

GRACE: Let`s take a listen to the 911 that Dave Mack and Phil Trexler are both telling you about.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officer?

911 OPERATOR: What`s going on there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, we can discuss more details when you get here.

911 OPERATOR: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m at (INAUDIBLE) Drive.

911 OPERATOR: OK. And where`s your wife at?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s my ex-wife, and she`s at (INAUDIBLE) to my apartment.

911 OPERATOR: What?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s at the entranceway to my apartment.

911 OPERATOR: OK. What did you do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s covered in a blanket. You guys will see.

911 OPERATOR: Do you have any weapons there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only one is outside with her.

911 OPERATOR: The only -- what was it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a knife.

911 OPERATOR: A knife?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

911 OPERATOR: Did you cut her or...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like I said, when you guys get here, we can work out all the details.

911 OPERATOR: What`s your name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Jeremy Roberts. And honest to God, I mean nobody else in the world any harm.

911 OPERATOR: What`s your ex-wife`s name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her name is Candice.

911 OPERATOR: Candice Roberts?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

911 OPERATOR: It`s not going to be out on the vehicle (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, no. You guys just stay here (INAUDIBLE) downstairs.

911 OPERATOR: The male is going to be upstairs in the apartment. The female should be laying in the entranceway to the apartment covered in a white blanket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir, it`s a blue blanket.

911 OPERATOR: Correction, blue blanket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your sister is (INAUDIBLE)

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told you that there`s a lot of things that you don`t understand and you don`t know, and now there`s no choice but to let them come out. OK? (INAUDIBLE) you guys...

911 OPERATOR: The male at Townhouse Drive...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you understand?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And remember I said that people -- you know that people -- listen, son (INAUDIBLE)

911 OPERATOR: There are two (INAUDIBLE) in the house...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know it`s not going to make it OK, but it`ll help understand.

911 OPERATOR: Jeremy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir?

911 OPERATOR: OK, what I need you to do, I need you to go to the front door, OK? Is the front door open?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys -- can I kiss them real fast?

911 OPERATOR: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love you guys. Wait! One more hug. I love you guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. As you can hear, Daddy on the other end of that 911 call, calm, cool and collected, not really giving away too much detail until he can get lawyered up.

Straight out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, what do we know about their relationship? I`ve got the motions for a temporary restraining order here. I know that the mom was concerned about violence from the daddy. That`s one of the reasons she got a divorce.

I also know that the uncle in this case wanted a temporary restraining order against Daddy, when I think Daddy held or threatened him with a knife or threatened to use a knife on him.

And also, I know the 16-year-old daughter, this young mom here, she leaves -- she`s only in her early 30s. She leaves behind a teen girl. She leaves behind a 4-year-old child, a little girl, and a little boy. Take a look.

What do we know about the relationship? I know mom had recently gotten newly engaged?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s correct, Nancy. Right. And the 16-year-old daughter says that she feared something might happen. She thought something could happen that would cause her dad to spark or snap, I believe is the word she used. But she thought he would take his own life. She never imagined that he would hurt her mother, the mother of her and her little brother and sister.

Nancy, though, we know that when they filed for divorce, the mother here, the victim, did ask for a temporary restraining order, ask that she be protected from any sort of harassment or harm from her soon-to-be ex- husband. That order was granted for her.

Also, police confirm to us that in 2009, there was an incident where the suspect allegedly held a knife to his brother`s throat and threatened him. Apparently, no restraining order granted in that case, but there were warning signs in the past, apparently.

GRACE: Warning sign upon warning sign. Unleash the lawyers, Becca Crumrine, family law attorney, Atlanta, Hugo Rodriguez, former fed with the FBI, defense lawyer, Miami, and Kirby Clements, defense lawyer in Atlanta.

All right, Kirby, hit me. What`s your defense?

KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, quite honestly, a lot of that 911 tape, the only thing I can go with is some sort of mental disturbance, that he had some sort of mental problem because...

GRACE: Well, wha -- wha -- wha...

CLEMENTS: ... you don`t kill someone and talk so calmly.

GRACE: Mental disturbance. Now, the last time I checked the OCGA, the official code of Georgia annotated, mental disturbance was not a defense.

CLEMENTS: Well, mental illness.

GRACE: There has to be mental illness. Now, that`s a lot different, Kirby, than disturbance.

CLEMENTS: Well, I understand that...

GRACE: Because I`m disturbed right now! I`m disturbed that this man murdered his wife in front of his children. The 4-year-old looks outside to see Mommy lying there with a hunting knife coming out of her chest, as does the little boy that made the 9/11 call. The teen girl comes over when Mommy never comes back home, and they tell her, Oh, yes, yes, your mom is dead, your dad just stabbed her to death.

CLEMENTS: Absolutely, but if you listen to that 911 tape...

GRACE: So yes, I`m disturbed...

CLEMENTS: ... something`s wrong with this man.

GRACE: ... about that! So how are you going to show mental illness?

CLEMENTS: Because...

GRACE: Just throw it on out there, Kirby! See if it sticks, friend!

CLEMENTS: No, no. It`ll stick. Even the daughter said, I thought he was going to snap. There was clearly something wrong with this man. He`s talking too calmly on 911. His answer that he gives his kids is, you know, You`ll see, you`ll understand. Clearly, that is the talkings of a madman.

GRACE: Put him up! Put him up! All right, Kirby, before you became a defense attorney, you were a prosecutor, along with me, right down the hall from me in the superior courthouse, handling nothing but felonies. And as you know, there is no such thing as a snap defense. That does not exist.

What about it Becca?

BECCA CRUMRINE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, this is -- a call for help -- I mean, obviously, there`s previous family violence in this case. The wife already wanted a restraining order. You know, family violence is just not taken seriously enough by our courts and by prosecutors. And 22 percent of family violence -- of cases that -- of murders in the United States are caused by family violence.

GRACE: You know, she`s right on those stats, Hugo Rodriguez. Of course, statistics are not allowed in evidence. But she`s right. Just because some judge doesn`t allow it into evidence doesn`t mean it`s not true.

Hugo Rodriguez, I`m not going to let this be pushed off into the corner as a domestic incident, all right? This is cold-blooded murder, and in my mind, this calls for the death penalty.

HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, when you were talking to Kirby, all I could think about is mitigation. It`s obvious that it`s -- there`s going to be a very difficult defense, whether he snapped, whether he`s mentally ill, whether he was insane temporarily...

GRACE: Would you people stop...

RODRIGUEZ: ... it`ll go to mitigation.

GRACE: ... saying "snap"? Will you stop? Because there is no "snap" defense. I snapped. People snap all day long. But they don`t stab other people with 12-inch blade hunting knives. There is no snap defense.

RODRIGUEZ: Correct. Correct. Correct. Temporary insanity. Let`s make it legal. But it`ll go to mitigation, and that will be in order to save himself...

GRACE: Oh, I`m so...

RODRIGUEZ: ... from death.

GRACE: ... happy. You know, Hugo, the three of you could not have made me happier this morning than to tell me with a straight face you`re actually going to try a temporary insanity defense. That`s right up there with the Twinkie defense and the doughnut defense. I love it! I couldn`t be happier, Hugo!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Jeremy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir?

911 OPERATOR: OK, what I need you to do, I need you to go to the front door, OK? Is the front door open?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys -- can I kiss them real fast?

911 OPERATOR: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love you guys. Quick, one more hug. I love you guys.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. We are taking your calls. Mommy stabbed to death in front of her own children. Then Daddy picks up the phone -- I guess he couldn`t hold his hunting knife in his hand anymore because it was still buried in Mommy`s chest.

Out to the lines. Melanie, Tennessee. Hi, Melanie. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first of all, I have to say, Nancy, it is awesome to make contact with you.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel like I kind of know you, and it`s awesome to finally get in touch.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My comment is, as a former victim of domestic assault and violence for an intense period of time, I can just say that this man didn`t snap. I`m with you on that page.

These people operate in cycles. And they do a lot of plotting. So if she was planning to come get the child and the aggravating -- what do they call it, a trigger, as of the engagement -- then, of course, that gives perfect reason, in his mind, as -- after me living with one -- that that`s absolutely acceptable behavior for him to do because, Oh, she`s going on with her life. You know, he`s still obsessing about her. So it gives him the right to feel like, yes, I can just kill her. I`ll just -- I`ll just stab her to death, which he did.

GRACE: You know, I think you`re right, Melanie. And I`m going to throw that to Dr. Mike Dow, psychotherapist and author joining us out of LA.

This is two years after their legal divorce, Mike Dow.

MIKE DOW, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, so you know, I absolutely agree with your survivor of domestic violence. There are clearly some telltale signs, Nancy. You know, I don`t buy that "snapped," you know, using the insanity defense because this guy was clearly premeditated. I mean, if he is rational enough to tell the kids that -- you know, that big sister (INAUDIBLE) take good care of them, he knew he was getting hauled away. And I think he`d been planning this for weeks and...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 13-year-old son can be heard on the call saying, quote, "My dad just killed my mom."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She never made it out alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he sees my dad standing there with blood all over him and a knife in his hand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a knife.

911 OPERATOR: A knife?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A mother of three chased down and had been fatally stabbed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Killed by her ex-husband.

911 OPERATOR: Did you cut her or...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, like I said, when you guys get here, we can work out all the details.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. This is a murder one death-penalty- qualified, if I`ve ever seen one. Will it where treated like that? Don`t know, because right now, it`s being called a domestic. And if you have a mother, a sister, a daughter, a female friend or a girlfriend that you love, you`ll agree with me that this is a murder one.

Mommy comes to pick up her 4-year-old toddler. That`s the age of my twins. And whether you like the mother or don`t like her or whatever you may think, they need their mother. She goes in to pick up her 4-year-old little girl.

Daddy goes in, comes out with a 12-inch blade hunting knife, stabs Mommy to death in front of the children, then calm, cool and collected on the 911 call, not telling too much to 911 dispatch because he knows he`s going to have to lawyer up and he doesn`t want to give anything away, won`t speak to police, oh, no, because that would hurt him at trial. And now tonight, the lawyers want to tell me the defense is temporary insanity?

To Steve Moore, former fed with the FBI, violent crimes investigator out of LA. Steve, why is it always temporary insanity when there`s no elsewhere to go for the defense?

STEVE MOORE, FMR. FBI AGENT & VIOLENT CRIMES INVESTIGATOR: Because they`d rather be prosecuting than defending, and that`s about the only thing that they can come up with.

This is -- there`s no temporary here. There were temporary restraining orders from months back. It`s not temporary, it`s ongoing. He was a threat from the very beginning. This isn`t a temporary act. This wasn`t -- this was just it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: What`s going on there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m serious, we can discuss more details when you get here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The murdered woman`s 13-year-old son can be heard on the call saying, quote, "My dad just killed my mom. He just told me to call you guys."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My ex-wife, and she`s (INAUDIBLE) to my apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chased down, fatally stabbed.

911 OPERATOR: What did you do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s covered in a blanket. You guys will see.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A mother of three was picking up two of her children at her former husband`s home.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Do you have any weapons there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only one is outside with her.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: The only one, and what was it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a knife.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: A knife.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Did you cut her or --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like said, when you guys get here, we can work out all the details.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And my brother says that every time he opens his eyes he sees my mother`s face and her yelling help me, and he sees my dad standing there with their blood all over him and a knife in his hand.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: And your sister is a good big sister.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quick. One more hug. I love you, guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officer?

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: What`s going on there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m serious, we can discuss all the details when you get here. I`m at -- Townhouse Drive.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. And where`s your wife at?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s my ex-wife and she`s in the entrance way to my apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Do what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s at the entrance way to my apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. What did you do?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s covered in a blanket, you guy will see.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Do you have any weapons there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only one is outside with her.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: What was it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a knife.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: A knife?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Did you cut her or --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like I said, when you guys get here, we can work out all the details.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: No, the knife is not outside with mommy. The knife is outside in mommy`s chest, and the children can see it, protruding from her chest, as she lies there dead outside in broad daylight. This guy`s so arrogant, he commits murder one in broad daylight in front of his own children.

You`re seeing a shot right there of mom in her early 30s. Candace Roberts. Multiple stab wounds with a 12-inch blade alone to a hunting knife. And the bond is so low for this guy, he could actually make bond.

We are taking your calls. I want to go out now to Jay in North Carolina.

Hi, Jay, what`s your question?

JAY, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: He sounds like he is really happy to tell the police that he killed his wife. What was the motive in this case?

GRACE: You know, Jay in North Carolina -- don`t hang up on Jay, yet. I noticed the same thing because he basically tells his children, here go call 911 and tell them what -- what daddy did. It`s like he`s proud, it`s like he`s bragging.

To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner joining us out of Philadelphia.

Dr. Manion, you must have seen thousands of so-called domestic homicide.

DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: That`s right.

GRACE: Those victims are just as dead as from a serial killer that stalks their victim and creeps into their bedroom and kills them in the night. It doesn`t matter if it`s domestic, Dr. Manion.

MANION: That`s correct and that`s why today when the police come to a domestic scene where people are fighting, somebody`s going to get arrested. Back in the `70s and `80s they would leave the couple there to continue to try to get along and then they`d get called back an hour later with someone dead. So today domestics usually result in an arrest and this is why. Because the feelings are so intense and usually the wife -- the wife or woman is the victim, the husband or boyfriend is the assailant.

GRACE: Dr. Manion, when I was still in court prosecuting, it was -- I often called it sweetheart murders because certain murders have the hallmark, the -- what I would call sweetheart murders. You don`t have to necessarily be romantically involved at the time of the murder, but it is someone that knows you, intimately knows you well, is familiar with you, for a multiple wound stabbing death is either a frenzy murder or a sweetheart murder. Explain, Dr. Manion.

MANION: Well, that person knows you -- knows the person so well that they do know what hurts them the most. And I suspected, as you said earlier, that her getting engaged, she`s moving on with her life, perhaps he had some fantasy that they could get together again, that they could somehow repair things.

And he just felt tremendous pressure that his life was ending, her life was moving on. And I don`t know what the argument was about, but she obviously hit a nerve, but I agree this was premeditated, too, because he was acting in a bizarre fashion. The daughter had seen that.

GRACE: I don`t know that there even was an argument, Dr. Manion. She goes to the door to get the child, it`s time for the child to come back home with her. He goes hold on, I got to change her clothes, comes back out with a hunting knife and stabs her brutally, then picks up -- takes the phone away from the little boy and proceeds very calmly to talk to 911.

So I guess, back to you lawyers, Becca Crumrine, Hugo Rodriguez, Kirby Clements.

Hugo, the last words I heard from you are still ranging in my ear, temporary insanity. So I guess it was insanity just what -- 30 seconds in the stabbing, and then assuming he picks up 911 he`s sane again? Is that how it`s going to down, Hugo? Is that how it`s going to roll out at trial?

HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: Let`s get this correct.

GRACE: Yes.

RODRIGUEZ: What I`m discussing, based on the facts that you`ve given to me, when you asked me about possible death penalty and capital. I said that his best shot right now from the facts is mitigation to save his own life. The only thing, the only valid defense when we would get a jury instruction, is some type of insanity. That`s the only thing that exist under the law. And I that`s what is going to be used or has to be used, that`s because that`s what the law dictates. That`s all I`m saying. He is going to have to try to save his own life.

GRACE: To you, Kirby Clements, it`s been two years, two years since their legal divorce. Do you really think any jury in their right mind would buy that he`s angry that she`s gotten engaged?

KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I think that under the -- if you develop it properly to suggest that by losing that control, and you got to concede that to some degree he lost control with her getting engaged, then that was the factor, albeit not something that you would agree with that caused him to snap. So it`s been two years, but this is the final straw.

GRACE: They`re saying snap again.

CLEMENTS: OK. The fact that he became temporarily insane, or that he was overcome by some extreme emotional disturbance, whatever that -- the law in that particular state happens to be. But that there were some emotional shock to his system that caused him to lose control. Because clearly if you listen to that --

GRACE: You know what I love, Kirby?

CLEMENTS: He sounds too calm for someone to have just stabbed someone that many times.

GRACE: So now he`s too calm, he`s to sane to be sane. I love it.

CLEMENTS: No, no, no. He`s too calm to be sane.

GRACE: But you know what I really love, Kirby? Because I remember the days that you would stand in front of the jury and tell the truth as a prosecutor. I love seeing you struggle with these fact scenarios to come one a defense.

CLEMENTS: The guy stabbed her.

GRACE: Becca, your turn.

BECCA CRUMRINE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: There`s no snapping. There`s no -- and I don`t care if he was angry or if he wasn`t angry. I mean this is calculated. He`s done it. He`s done -- he`s threatened people before, she wanted a temporary restraining order two years ago. She should have been able to get a temporary restraining order then. Even the uncle want a temporary restraining order.

This guy has got a pattern of violence against his relatives and this was something that was foreseeable.

GRACE: You know what, Becca, you bring up a good point because he should have already been behind bars for threatening his own brother with a knife. And now we see violence with a knife re-emerging with a disastrous and tragic ending.

Tonight I know the viewers want to know the children are with relatives. I don`t know how long they`re going to be able to be kept together. The father is telling the little ones, oh, you`ve got a good big sister, she`ll take care of you. She`s just 16, the state is not going to let her take care of these two children. They`re going to end up separated, and living with either relatives or in a foster home, Dad.

Everyone, our family album is back with your photos. Here are California friends, the Winfreys. Brad, Victoria, Mia. Love Disneyland, the beach, Vegas, grandma and grandpa.

Share your photos to iReport Family Album at HLNTV.com/nancygrace and click on Nancy`s Family Album.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twenty-two-month-old toddler Dwight Stallings --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Gone missing.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Shocking claims.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She has told that he was with someone.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She changed her story.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The unthinkable.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The boy`s mother allegedly told a judge that she handed over her son Dwight to two women dressed in burqas then simply walked away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Walk free? She got out of jail? After pawning off, according to her, her 1-year-old baby boy so she could, quote, "clean her apartment"? That she couldn`t clean out her apartment with a 1-year-old? And she hands the baby off she says to two unidentifiable women she had never met, wearing burqas?

Yes. Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, Radaronline.com, help me out here.

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: This is a crazy story, Nancy. This woman Tunisha Edwards says that she got a phone call on her cell phone --

GRACE: I don`t think it`s crazy. Tereszcuk, I don`t think it`s crazy. I think it`s pure out evil. A child, 1 year old.

You know, Alexis, when you have children, you`re going to see how helpless a 1-year-old child is. I think it`s flat-out evil.

TERESZCUK: And the judge even said that to her. She said this little child cannot take care of himself and still let her go.

So this woman claims she got a phone call from the relatives, she thought maybe they would be related to her husband. She met them, she said she left a sleazy motel. I`m sorry, cheesy motel.

GRACE: OK.

TERESZCUK: And then just --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Is it working correctly? Did you say she walked out of jail? Explain to me how that happened?

TERESZCUK: She was arrested. Child Protective Services started investigating this missing child. She was --

GRACE: They started, yes. You know what, Alexis, they should have started, as usual, Child Protective Services, day late, dollar short. They should have started long before the child is gone. You know that child was mistreated. She passed it off.

Here`s what happened, Alexis, she killed the baby, she stashes the baby`s body somewhere and then they let her walk free when she comes out with this cockamamie story about women in burqas, Alexis.

Just tell me the real facts.

TERESZCUK: Well, she has come up with a lot of stories, and when you say that she killed the baby, that is -- well, she did say the baby died. She said at one point, the baby dies and she left him at a hospital but she couldn`t remember the name of the hospital. So this woman has been under CPS investigation for years, and they never did anything.

The child was missing, they never contacted the sheriff`s department, they never put a warrant out for her arrest. They never let anybody know that this baby was missing. So when she finally was arrested, she was held in jail, a judge came in -- she came in front of a judge who asked her multiple questions, the woman Tunisha was swearing at the judge, she was swearing at the other lawyers and she wouldn`t tell a straight story, but still for some strange reason, she let it -- let her go.

GRACE: To Kat McCullough, producer on the story. Alexis is right and the reality is that by letting the mom go free after this, it is only delaying finding out what happened to the baby. Under the slim prospect that this child may still be alive, Kat, what does she say happen?

It`s my understanding she`s changed her story a couple of times already?

KAT MCCULLOUGH, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy, she`s changed her story many times. She first said that the boy was sick and died. She couldn`t remember where he died. She then said that he was with two women dressed in black. Then now comes the story of the burqas, that she randomly decided to leave her home, leave her two other children, take her baby Dwight with her. She made it to Nevada by bus. There she said she got a call from his relatives who offered to help her so she met up with them and just handed the baby over in a motel parking lot.

GRACE: At the Motel 6, am I correct?

MCCULLOUGH: That`s correct, a motel 6, she doesn`t even know what city it was. She doesn`t know --

GRACE: Out to the lines, David in Georgia. Hi, David, what`s your question?

DAVID, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: The people that she claims she turned the baby over to?

GRACE: You know what, I think that she never really turned this baby over to anybody. As much as I don`t like it, I think she likely killed the baby.

Let me make sure I understand your question because you cut out on me just a tiny bit. Were you asking me, did they ever track down who she claims she turned the baby over to?

DAVID: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Alexis Tereszcuk -- let me see Alexis and Kat, please. Do we have any idea if these people really exist? It`s first to you, Alexis.

TERESZCUK: We do not have any idea, no. And in fact Child Protective Services, it seems that they`ve only been trying to find Tunisha and not anybody else.

GRACE: OK. Kat, give me some good news, Kat McCullough.

MCCULLOUGH: Police do believe that there may be a woman named Antoinette in Reno who might have the child, but they really -- they really don`t know.

GRACE: And now "On the Radar," checking crime and justice.

To Florida, a man allegedly douses his 34-year-old ex with gasoline, sets her on fire at the 7-Eleven. All caught on video.

To Arizona, police discovered the body of a 35-year-old woman, Linda Watson, missing since 2000. Last seen after a so-called friend drives her home from church.

And tonight, to South Carolina, does mommy actually leave her toddler outside a nightclub? While she goes in to drink and party with other men? Oh no, she didn`t.

For "On the Radar" or to have your story on our radar, go to HLNTV.com/ontheradar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As Edwards pressed for questions about what happened to her little boy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know where he is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s been very uncooperative.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The exchange happened outside a Nevada motel, according Edwards, who also told the court she had no way of contacting the women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are back and taking your calls. Out to Guy in West Virginia.

Hi, Guy, what`s your question?

GUY, CALLER FROM WEST VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. Thanks so much for taking my call. What I want to know is download mama, I mean, you know, when are they going to look into her history? What kind of background does she got? And you know, you know, is this a black market deal gone bad? You know, what`s the story?

GRACE: You know what, I think that all this business about selling babies is really more on let`s just say Lifetime Channel or an HBO special. I don`t think that selling your baby on the black market really happens the way as often as we think it does.

Steve Moore, what about it?

STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI AGENT AND VIOLENT CRIMES INVESTIGATOR: Well, I have seen cases were that has happened. But it`s not something --

GRACE: Yes. And how often did you see that, Steve Moore, former fed with the FBI? How often did you see that as opposed to mommy killing the baby?

MOORE: Well, I saw it once in my career. The rest of the times, it was mommy killing you baby.

GRACE: You know what I`m so sick about? Is some judge valued this child`s so -- life so little, they let mommy walk. What about it, Steve?

MOORE: He -- the judge could have let him walk out of just sheer incompetence and a bad decision. It could have been that the police wanted her out and put her under surveillance because once she`s in jail, she is not going to make the calls or go to the places they want her to go. They might want do it as an investigative tool. I can`t tell you which one it was.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Mom comes up with some cockamamie story that she handed her baby, her 1-year-old baby boy, off to two women in burqas that she didn`t know so she could clean out her apartment?

Becca Crumrine, Hugo Rodriguez, Kirby Clements -- you know you know, Kirby, you`ve got, what, two or three children? Have you ever cleaned out -- cleaned your house with the children at home?

CLEMENTS: You know, I only have two that I know of. That`s just all I have. But I know I`ve never -- I`ve never, you know, not been able to clean my house or do anything with -- without my -- with my kids around. I mean, as a matter of fact I once changed my baby`s diapers in the back of my car in traffic once. So you can do all of that. I mean, clearly, this child, sadly --

GRACE: You know what, I`m going to make a citizen`s arrest on that one.

OK, what about it, Rodriguez?

RODRIGUEZ: She was released by a judge and given an order to produce the child in August. She violated the order and that`s why subsequently we have gone through this process. I hope the child is OK. I have my own opinions and I don`t believe it is, but this woman is unfortunately a drug addict who probably has made tremendously bad decision and God only know what she did with her child.

GRACE: OK, Becca Crumrine, let`s just refresh our defense attorney`s recollection of the law, that voluntary use of drugs or alcohol is not a defense.

CRUMRINE: It is not a defense at all. And not only that, but, you know, not only the judge not do anything but the Child Protective Service and the prosecutor, neither one of them asked the judge whether or not to hold her or to bond her.

RODRIGUEZ: The judge couldn`t hold her. The judge issued an order for her to produce the child subsequently and that would be contempt and she didn`t do that. But they couldn`t hold her indefinitely requiring her to produce the child.

GRACE: No, no, actually they could have charged her with felony child abuse because by handing the child off to people she didn`t even know.

RODRIGUEZ: Good. But don`t blame the defense lawyer.

GRACE: That`s what they could have done.

(CROSSTALK)

RODRIGUEZ: And (INAUDIBLE) your fellow prosecutors.

GRACE: Had it been investigated properly by CPS, she would have been held on felony child abuse and the judge could have instituted that from the bench.

Let`s stop and remember, Army Specialist Daniel Agami, 25, Coconut Creek, Florida, killed, Iraq. On a second tour. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation, loved music, sports, body builder since age 13. Well-known DJ/bodyguard for country singer (INAUDIBLE). Leaves behind parents Itzhak and Beth, brother Ilan, sister Shaina.

Daniel Agami, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And happy birthday to Georgia friend, coach Joan Hudgens (ph), world class coach.

And thank you to Loretta Hannon for the best-selling book "Crackler Queen" she sent to our staff.

Everyone, Dr. Drew coming up next. I`ll tell you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern and until then good night, friend.

END