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Sandusky`s Wife Testifies; Breast Implant Addiction

Aired June 19, 2012 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

Is bigger better? A woman risked her life to get a giant rump. She will show us why she was willing to pay any price for -- get this -- black market buttock injections.

Call her now at 1-855-DRDREW5.

And a mother with large breasts, they are size L, wants Ms. What drive people to such extremes? Do they have a body image disorder or is there anything wrong enhancing what Mother Nature has given us?

I want to know what you think. That`s 855-DRDREW5.

And now, could you testify against your own husband? That is precisely what accused pedophile Jerry Sandusky`s wife had to do today. We`ll talk about that.

So, let`s get started.


PINSKY: OK, tonight, I want to bring you up to date on the latest of the Penn State sex scandal.

Today, Jerry Sandusky`s wife took the stand to defend her husband, who faces 51 counts of sexual abuse. She claims that in 45 years of marriage, she never suspected a thing, even when boys were spending the night at their home.

I want to know your reaction, your questions. Call me now at 855- DRDREW5. And not only will you be able to share your thoughts and ask me questions, I also have with me former prosecutor and author of "Guilty by Degrees," Marcia Clark.

Marcia, thanks for joining us today.

Now what do you make of today`s testimony?

MARCIA CLARK, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, these are kind of predictable witnesses for the defense to call. These are people friends of Sandusky. I would call it their fan club.

PINSKY: Family members.

CLARK: Right.

PINSKY: Literally.

CLARK: Family members, the wife. And from a prosecutor`s standpoint, he is -- this is his wife what do you expect her to say?


CLARK: And, of course, she is going to deny knowing anything. She couldn`t admit it. She`d be criminally culpable if she knew.

PINSKY: Oh, if she-- if she -- so, if she said, you know, I had some doubts, I saw him, I thought once or twice something of, she would then have a criminal problem?

CLARK: Not just for that but that would certainly get the ball rolling to show she was an aider and abettor if she knowingly allowed him to continue in their house.


Now, when you look at this whole thing, I mean, you and I were talking off the air, you get -- get the willies is too kind a thing to say. You get disgusted. The idea a grown man with young kids in the shower, soaping one another up and people getting on the stand and saying, hey, what`s the big deal? What is going on here?


PINSKY: Who are we to say?

CLARK: You know, yes, we are who to say. So is the jury. And I think they will say.

And there`s no comparison between this woman, the one -- one of the character witnesses called by the defense was saying so what, I go to the Y, it`s all kinds of women all ages in there taking showers.

Really? Are they? Are you soaping up little girls` bodies? Are they soaping yours? I mean --

PINSKY: I mean, let`s be clear about this wouldn`t a public gym, even though adults may shower together in open space, be clear not to allow minors in there?


PINSKY: Isn`t there laws against this? OK. I want to be sure I`m not losing my mind.

CLARK: You are not losing your mind.

PINSKY: Don`t wives have some protection against this kind of testimony, testifying against the husband?

CLARK: Right. Right. There would be a spousal privilege.

PINSKY: Spousal privilege, right?

CLARK: So, the prosecutor can`t call her. But the prosecutor didn`t call her, the defense called her.

PINSKY: I see.

CLARK: It`s her choice. If she wants to testify on behalf of her husband, she`s certainly allowed to do that. And she did.

PINSKY: Are we going to hear more? Is this it? They`re just going to put the friends up there and say, I never saw, nothing, he`s great guy, and that`s going to be their defense?

CLARK: Well, that`s pretty much got to be it. They don`t have any other witnesses to come in and say this never happened. I was there with them at the time they were in the shower and none of that happened. They can`t do that.

So the only thing they can do is go after the character testimony. Now the other way they went about it was by calling the shrink -- excuse me, the doctor.

PINSKY: Psychiatrist.

CLARK: The psychiatrist, to say that he had histrionic personality disorder.

PINSKY: That to me was bizarre. I mean, what, listen, for my viewers, let me say this, when we talk about histrionic personality disorder, we`re talking about something that primarily affects women. And we talk about histrionic features in men, we`re really talking about a narcissistic personality disorder, because that`s the predominant manifestation of those sorts of issues in a male.

And then you got somebody that`s capable of doing these things.

CLARK: Right.

PINSKY: Because they don`t really acknowledge people have feelings or they maybe have severe narcissism, other people are just objects which seems like the way this guy has been behaving, isn`t it?

CLARK: Absolutely. And here`s the thing -- they brought up this whole histrionic personality disorder thing to explain away the love letters, those creepy letters that he wrote to one of the victims but the problem with it is, if I`m the prosecutor, I say the following: Doctor, you say he has histrionic personality disorder. Tell me, does that mean he can`t also be a pedophile?

PINSKY: Right. That`s good.

And by the way, it would have made more sense if they said, well, he`s a love addict, something crazy by that, which would have made sense actually, but saying he`s histrionic. Histrionic people -- think about something that`s like, you know, extremely loudly dressed and you know, sort of the center of attention all the time.

The word histrionic describes the disorder, very preoccupied, worried about their health all the time. I see none of that in here.

Let`s take a quick call. Let`s go to Kayla in California -- Kayla.

KAYLA, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. I want to say think you`re wonderful and your empathy for addicts is just -- is to be commended.

PINSKY: Thank you.

KAYLA: I`m wondering about this wife, and she has been with him for 40 years. How long ago was the first issue brought to the attention of other people?

PINSKY: You mean when they first were sort of calling attention to his behavior back in the `90s, didn`t she know then?

KAYLA: Right.

PINSKY: Wouldn`t she have been on the lookout then?

KAYLA: Absolutely. You know, I have been married for 15 years. You know your spouse. I think she is comfortable in her existence with him and didn`t want it to end.

CLARK: See, that`s great question. It is a wonderful question.

What happened we know now in 1998, one of the victim`s mothers did report to the police, the police started an investigation, and they went -- they actually Sandusky come to her home, taped the conversation in which he said to the mother, not knowing he was being taped --

PINSKY: I`m sorry.

CLARK: "I wish I was dead. I`m asking for your forgiveness."

So did the wife know at that time? She should have. It`s difficult to believe she didn`t.

PINSKY: Quickly, Bernadette in Pennsylvania. You got something for us?


I was just wondering since Jerry Sandusky has these six adopted children and five of them are boys, was it ever suspected that maybe he had done something to these boys?

PINSKY: I`m certain somebody suspected that and the police must have investigated that -- mustn`t they have?

CLARK: They did in `98. In fact, they wanted to file charges and the district attorney wouldn`t file.

PINSKY: Against the adopted kids?

CLARK: No, not the adopted kids.

PINSKY: My understanding is they, themselves, say, no, they have never seen this, this never happened us to.

Let`s be clear about perpetrators, the histrionic personality disorder thing is bizarre to me. But they believe kids participate with them, and want them, and they are special. Even if it is just the shower, just let`s say that`s just it. That is a kind of boundary violation that is a kind of sexual abuse that`s this far from acts of sexual abuse.

CLARK: Right. And what we see a lot of times with molest victims, doctor, is that there`s these people, they start with behaviors that are inappropriate comments, inappropriate behavior, short of touching and that`s molestation, too.

PINSKY: Absolutely.

CLARK: So, you know, there are gradation and they move further and further. The problem is that the more they get away with it, the more they feel bold to try further steps and that`s when they start touching.

PINSKY: It`s all damaging for the kids.

So, thank you, Marcia, for being here. I do appreciate it.

CLARK: Thank you.

PINSKY: Now, we are going to switch gears. HLN be following this trial. We, of course, will bring you the latest.

But now, we`re going to switch into unbelievable stories about plastic surgery. We`re going to talk to a woman who wants to be, there she is, she wants over the largest breasts in America as a model. She wants to go from an L to an M.

I think -- I`m going to bring on a plastic surgeon, we`re going to talk about the dangers of this and the effect this has on maybe the choices she is making on her daughter, perhaps.

Call me. We`ll talk about it, 855-DRDREW5.


PINSKY: All right. Welcome back now.

Have you ever considered getting a breast enlargement surgery? How about multiple surgeries, say 12 or so?

Joining me, Lacey Wildd, a mother who is risking her health and perhaps her family`s well being to have a record-breaking, what should we say, endowment?

And I also have plastic surgeon, Dr. John Diaz, here with me.

Lacey, I want to start with you. So, people look at what you`re doing, they shake their head and they don`t understand why. Tell us why.

LACEY WILDD, HAS SIZE "L" BREASTS: Well, basically I was -- I started this crusade to make some more money and I have done exactly that and I`m not done yet. I`m going to finish it and do it right and become one of the biggest in the world. And -- and I have taken my health into consideration.

PINSKY: And how -- this is -- you want to go from an L to an M, I understand. I don`t know what that means even. Is that really meaningful or is that just funny letters?

WILDD: Well, it is going -- well, letters to you but in the big breast community, it is a lot more than that. It will put me -- I`m not going to an M, I`m going to a MMM, which is a lot bigger. I`m an L cup now, bordering an M cup.

It will skyrocket me into the top in the world. I don`t think I will ever be the biggest in the world. The biggest in the world is 14,000 CCs in one implant and I`m 3,500.

So, you know, I don`t think I will ever be 14,000 in one implant. I will definitely be one of the top five.

PINSKY: Let me ask a couple things. How much will each of those weigh?

WILDD: I think they`ll weigh like 20 pounds.

PINSKY: Twenty pounds each?

WILDD: Oh, they will weigh 20 -- no, my breasts already weigh 20 pounds now. They will probably weigh like 20 pounds.

PINSKY: Does it cause you back and neck problems already?

WILDD: No, I don`t have any back problems really from the breasts, anyway. I`m pretty proportionate, if you see the rest of my body. I`m not a small girl.

PINSKY: Dr. Diaz, I have -- I have got 10-pound fruit down here, I`m going to pick this up. And I mean, not to be funny about this, but first of all, I got backaches just picking them up.

If I put this on my chest and try to lie down, I couldn`t sleep. Really just leaning back like this I have trouble taking a deep breath. That`s not good for your heart and lungs. Just that.

DR. JOHN DIAZ, PLASTIC SURGEON: There`s no question that she is causing severe damage to her body by having implants of this size in her breasts. There`s no question, not only to her skin, I`m sure she is having some kind of chronic neck and back problems.

PINSKY: Has to be. I`m having trouble just holding this for two minutes.

DIAZ: Absolutely. The other thing is that a lot of people don`t realize -- when you have a weight like this on your chest, over time that weight starts erode nothing your rib cage and there have been pictures that other plastic surgeons have submitted where when we remove implants this large, we will see the rib cage actually sunken in.

PINSKY: Caved in?

DIAZ: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Listen, I`m going to put them back up here again and tell you that I`m a nearly 200-pound male and just putting this here, I cannot take a deep breath. It would hurt if I kept another 10 minutes here.

DIAZ: Absolutely.

PINSKY: But so, Lacey, how is that possible? How can you not be having symptoms? I`m just doing the math here for a couple of minutes.

WILDD: I have problems sleeping and I have problems getting clothes and stuff. But I have been carrying big breasts for my entire life. So, I did it gradually. I didn`t do it all at one time.

So, I`ve been doing this for quite a long time. Now recently, I did add, you know, ten pounds.

But just recently, I got my butt done, too and I have a big butt and I have my -- I`m a strong girl. I`m not a weak little girl, I`m 5`7", almost 5`8" and I weigh like 140. So, I`m not a small girl. So I can handle the weight.

PINSKY: I`m just saying, Lacey. I`m just saying, I weigh 190 and having trouble holding the weight. I gave them to my stage manager.

But let me take some calls, take a couple of questions this, see what people think.

Denise in California -- Denise.


PINSKY: Hi, Denise.

DENISE: How are you?

PINSKY: I`m good. What`s happening?

DENISE: I`m calling from the other side of the globe. I`m calling you from Boston.


DENISE: And the first thing I saw before the commercial was this woman and the last thing I heard was she had a child.


DENISE: How old, if possible, is this daughter of hers?

PINSKY: OK. Lacey, how old is your daughter or do you have just one daughter?

WILDD: I have three daughters and three sons.

PINSKY: And how old are the girls?

WILDD: I have a 5-year-old, a 16-year-old and a 25-year-old.

PINSKY: And, Denise, is it Denise -- what did you want to ask Lacey about this?

DENISE: I wanted to ask her how does she feel about going to their schools, about being seen in public places like the supermarket with these little children. Doesn`t she know this is probably embarrassing them?

PINSKY: What do you say, Lacey?

WILDD: Well, yes, I mean, my kids have been through a lot lately. Obviously, I have been in the media lot. And it is hard for them. I don`t dress like this when I go to the grocery store, obviously.

And, you know, I -- it`s hard for them but they have always known me to look like this. So you know, they are kind of used to it. Now, people, they gasp when they see me, of course, but, you know, it`s -- everybody has their own thing to deal with and make their own sacrifice and this is just what we are doing to live.

PINSKY: And this is for -- let me just say, Lacey, this is for money, you couldn`t live without this, you couldn`t send your kid to us college -- is that what we are led to believe?

WILDD: Right.

PINSKY: OK. Hold on.

WILDD: Well, I was doing that. I was living without my boobs for -- I had smaller boobs but once I went into -- rocketed into this, I started make a lot more money.

PINSKY: OK. Hold on.

WILDD: Let`s be honest, I just signed --

PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on.

It`s many interesting questions about body image and what people are willing to do for money and the medical aspects of this, but we are going to keep taking calls.

And later, you are going to meet a woman who has made her buttock bigger by getting injections from just somebody on the street. She is with me and we are all taking calls, 1-855-DRDREW5. There she is there.


PINSKY: Welcome back. We are speaking to a mother who will stop at nothing to be amongst the biggest breasted women in the world.

Now, Lacey, we had a call, I wonder if you guy does put that first call up for me, I heard it was somebody asking about the surgeons. Can you guys put that call back up for me in the courtroom?

There`s Valerie in California.

Valerie, what do you got for us?


PINSKY: Hi, Valerie.

VALERIE: Because of the health risks involved with plastic surgery, are there now more surgeons refraining from promoting this trend?

PINSKY: Well, I think the real question here, Valerie, I`ll ask this of Dr. Diaz, people don`t understand what a plastic surgeon is. You`re board certified in plastic surgery.

DIAZ: That`s correct.

PINSKY: That`s what you look for, for good surgery.

DIAZ: Absolutely.

PINSKY: So, you have general surgery and then plastic surgery.

DIAZ: That`s right.

PINSKY: That`s the combo you are looking for.

What qualified board-certified plastic surgeon would do something like this?

DIAZ: Yes. I would love to stress there is no way a reputable board- certified surgeon -- plastic surgeon would perform this kind of surgery. This is considered unethical, not only to me but I think to the society in general and we would frown upon this.

And I think the medical board would actually try to punish the surgeon that did this if they could find him.

PINSKY: Well, Lacey, so where do you get done, do you have to leave the country to do it?

WILDD: It`s a secret. I`m actually getting my next surgery here in the United States.

PINSKY: So, there`s some -- is this a board-certified plastic surgeon or we don`t know?

WILDD: Of course it is. I don`t promote anyone getting any type of surgery anywhere but by someone that`s board certified and I frown upon anyone that`s getting something in someone`s house or anything like that.

PINSKY: Right. We`re going to talk about that.

WILDD: So dangerous. And it is not worth it.

PINSKY: Yes, we are going to talk about that after we leave you and talk to this next woman.

But now, in order for all those things to -- those 12-pound or whatever they are a pound implants to stay in place, you must have to have some sort of internal bra put in as well, right, something structurally put into your body to hold them up?

DIAZ: Yes.

WILDD: Yes. I do have an internal bra put in. I had it put in when I put it up this big so I look like this without a bra.


DIAZ: That makes sense because there`s no wait human skin can withstand that amount of weight. So, would you have to somehow reinforce that and just think about that -- the fact that you have to reinforce the skin to hold up that weight, it`s just so unethical so unbelievable.

PINSKY: It`s a non-biological.

All right. On the phone, we now have Lacey`s daughter, Britney.

Now, Britney, I just wanted to know what your mom`s choices were doing to the -- to her kids. I mean, your mom seems like a lovely woman but she is making some wild choices. What does this mean to you?

BRITNEY WILDD, DAUGHTER OF LACEY WILDD (via telephone): I think it`s brought a lot of attention to the kids that maybe they don`t want. You know, when I was growing up, she obviously had large breasts still and of course, all my male friends gaga over her. So I think now the kids have it a lot worse.

But, you know, we all see her as mom and not some public figure. So it is just a little bit annoying to the kids.

PINSKY: Now, my understanding is, one of my producers told me you, yourself, is going to have plastic surgery done. Do you think your mom`s choices have figured into what it is you want to do?

B. WILDD: I don`t think so. I went in for my first surgery and she did help me. I got a D cup but I didn`t really get the shape that I wanted so I am going bigger.

PINSKY: Oh, there you are there. That`s picture we have of you.

And again, you are all lovely women, seem like very nice women.

But Dr. Diaz, they are getting into this in such a big way, literally. And these surgeries are not a one-time thing. They have to have revision and complications.

DIAZ: That`s what she doesn`t realize and they don`t realize, is by undergoing all these procedures and at these extreme sizes, they are putting their health at risk. It`s not only their breasts but their health.

PINSKY: All right. Britney, I appreciate you joining us.

I want to get to our viewer call here real quick.

Barbara in Virginia, what do you got?

BARBARA, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, Dr. Drew, it is great to talk to you.

PINSKY: Thank you.

BARBARA: I must say that that woman looks like a cartoon character and I just can`t understand why someone would want to get those ginormous almost, like, a freak show.

PINSKY: Barbara, it`s an interesting question.

And, Lacey, I only got about a minute left. Let me ask you this -- I have my own theory that some women, they become what I call female -- female cross-dressers that is they over-feminize themselves the way a male cross-dresser would, they just happen to be females.

Does that -- can you relate to that idea?

WILDD: Yes, you know, the last time I talked to you we talked about that and I wasn`t sure what it was, but I agree with that. Now, I want to look like Jessica Rabbit. I want to look like this. This is just my choice. I don`t push it on anyone.

But I`m making a lot of money. I just signed a contract with a major network. You`re going see a lot more of me on TV.

And, you know, I am a really good mom and hopefully everybody could see that. I make sure my health is number one because you know what, my kids are number one. I would never do something that I thought I was going to die, OK?

PINSKY: All right?

WILDD: I promise you.

PINSKY: I know you don`t have the intention to die. But, Dr. Diaz and I have concerns that in spite of your intention, that may happen.

And, again, fetishizing your body, making a fetish, an object, rather than an intimate, you know, biological, sensory part of us, it is removing it from us.

DIAZ: Well this is definitely your specialty. But I suspect there is some deep kind of psychological/emotional issues going on here. But --

PINSKY: Should a surgeon look into that before they proceed with something like that?

DIAZ: Absolutely. We are very familiar with body dysmorphic disorder and trained to look for that and deny patients with that, to deny them surgery.

PINSKY: OK. Thank you. I`m going to take a look at photos here, guys. These are not natural curves. My next guest had injections, guess where and she has a warning for women desperate to change their body. Call now, 855-373-7395.

And thank you, Lacey.

We are back after the break.


PINSKY: Coming up, desperate for a curvy figure, my next guest went from this to this. How? She got her rear end injected with things you can get, check this out, at the hardware store. I`m talking about super glue and silicone. Why would someone do it and what are the risks?

We are taking your calls now, 1-855-DRDREW5.


PINSKY (on-camera): Welcome back. We are talking about women who risk their lives to have, I don`t know, should we say curvier bodies? Some are choosing to pump up their rears with auto-grade silicone, super glue. And it is often administered by people who are not doctors, who have no medical knowledge. It`s done sort of in motels somewhere.

And apparently, doesn`t matter how much it costs, where it takes place. Joining me now is Vanity Wonder. In her new book "Shot Girl." She reveals the secret black market world of butt injections. The mother of two has had over 1,000 injections and is now speaking out against these procedures. There she is. And vanity, what did you do? What did you put in there?

VANITY WONDER, AUTHOR, "SHOT GIRLS": Well, first, I do have to clarify that I don`t have auto-grade silicone. I have medical-grade silicone. The first two times I was injected, I -- she told me it was soybean oil, and I truthfully don`t know what she injected into me. But every time after that, it was medical grade.

This -- -- the super glue isn`t injected in you. It`s used to seal the holes that are made from the poking of the needles. So, that`s where the super glue comes in at. So, you`re never injected with super glue. It`s always to seal. It`s like a, you know, a street way of sealing it up.

PINSKY: So, it`s all some sort of silicone that they`re injecting with a syringe?

WONDER: Oh, yes, definitely. I mean, some girls do. Some girls do get the stuff from the home depot. You know, we`ve seen that in the news. You know, women getting indicted and going to jail because they went and, you know, have gotten droves of things from home depot and injected them into girls. Definitely, that does happen, without a doubt.

PINSKY: Here`s what I don`t think people understand. You put a foreign body, Dr. Diaz, even though it`s a viscous sort of a fluid, your body is going to react to that in many different ways, including infection and breaking down and necrosis. I mean, you can end up with your entire limb coming off basically.

WONDER: And this is something --


WONDER: Yes. Yes. And this is something that I want girls to understand. See, because they see me and they see me healthy and me walking around and talking and they say, oh, you know, like, I like vanity`s body, and I think that vanity looks really good. I want them to understand what you just said. You can get -- you might not be as lucky as Vanity is.

DIAZ: There have been many, many cases of these situations were patients have, like you said you developed tremendous, terrible infections of their buttocks. And they go in and trying --

WONDER: I had an infection.

PINSKY: She had one --

DIAZ: And then, they ended up having to be admitted to the hospital and have all of that tissue removed in order to treat the infection. So --

PINSKY: Let`s see if we have Vanity, here`s a picture of her. Let`s say she got an infection and her body was rejecting affecting that material. How surgically could you get in there and repair all it?

DIAZ: The only way would be to go in and actually remove the entire buttock tissue, and you would leave the person with such a severe, terrible deformity that it would never, in a million years, justify the risk of any patient trying to do this on their own.

PINSKY: All right. Let`s take some calls.

WONDER: This is what girls need to hear.

PINSKY: OK. Aaron in Illinois, you got question?

AARON, ILLINOIS: Yes. Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Aaron.

AARON: My question is, why would you get a butt that big for somebody as small as frame as you have?

PINSKY: Vanity, what do you say?

WONDER: Well, for one, I didn`t go and say, hey, I need this big humongous butt. What happened was after my first time going to go get it done, it became a competition. I was, like, you know, oh, she`s got a bigger butt, she`s got a bigger butt. I want a bigger butt. But then, around my fifth time getting injections, it got infected.

So, I had all these lumps all over my butt. So, I was faced with a choice. I could stay with the medium-sized lumpy butt, terrible, horrible thing or I could go for a bigger butt and that I just kept having to fill with silicone and fill with silicone to pad over the lumps. And so, I said that`s what I was going to do.

So, I never said, oh, yes, I just need this big donky (ph) butt. It was something that came out of necessity because I did not like how it looked after it got infected.

PINSKY: I think she`s lucky to be alive. I mean, that`s really what I see --


PINSKY: Kyle in Indiana -- Kyle.

KYLE, INDIANA: Hello, Dr. Drew. My question is, is this a psychological problem or is it, like, a bit on the taboo side?

PINSKY: I don`t know quite what you mean by taboo. I think maybe you mean fetishistic side, like, we were talking about with our previous guest, but I think this is a combination of factors. I mean, this is a sort of a social issue in that she was competing with other women.

Social that she would be encouraged to do this on the black market. You know, body image clearly to start with, and then, once you`re into it, now she`s chasing, trying to repair what she`s done. Chelsea in California. Chelsea?


PINSKY: Hi, Chelsea. Hey. You`re on the air.

CHELSEA: I wanted to know, what`s the point of these injections? Isn`t it an embarrassment to her family out in public? What kind of publicity is she looking for?

PINSKY: So, I guess, Chelsea is asking, Vanity, what kind of attention would you like? What were you going for?

WONDER: Well, coming from somebody who`s always been a tomboy, after six months of attention, I was sick of it. It was never something -- it was never something -- you know, I had problems that I needed to deal with inside myself.

My -- my addictions didn`t start with injections. It started with ecstasy. It morphed into Xanax. And then, it became injections. So, it wasn`t -- OK, go ahead.

PINSKY: Well, I want to ask you a tough question. I hear ecstasy, body image and, you know, I think about sex addiction when I see people that have that combination. Did you have that kind of struggle, too? No. OK.

WONDER: No. Not at all. Anybody that knows me would laugh at you saying that.

PINSKY: OK. Well, people are -- you know, amping up their body and doing ecstasy and getting going.

WONDER: I don`t like people to touch me. I had very bad childhood. And I don`t even let people hug me. I have a very, very hard time with people touching me. They know to stay out of my personal space. I don`t like it.

PINSKY: OK. All right. We`re going to take a break. We`re going to take more calls. Vanity is going to stay with us. Dr. Diaz stays with us. The number is 855-373-7395. Don`t go away.


PINSKY: Welcome back. We are talking about people who make extreme changes to their body. Vanity Wonder had buttock injections, administered by someone who was not a physician, not a doctor.

Vanity, a couple of questions. I understand these procedures were, A, painful. Tell me about that. And B, do you still have pain?

WONDER: Well, in the book, I`ve talked a lot about going to go and get them and everything that`s wrapped up in it. Not only is it painful, it lasts for about an hour, you know, during the whole procedure. It takes about an hour to go through. But even after that, it still hurts for a couple of hours.

And in the book, I talk about the infection and how there was a point when because the infection had left my butt so ravaged, I couldn`t sit down for more than 15 minutes at a time. So, if I was in the car and I was driving, I would have to switch from side to side to side. It definitely was an ordeal to go through.

PINSKY: Are you concerned about further complications as you age?

WONDER: I am, because we will be the first generation with case studies for this. No generation before us -- there`s nothing on the books. We`re the first ones doing it. So, yes, I am worried because I don`t know what`s going to happen.

It`s not like this is AIDS or this is an STD or something where we know what will happen. This is something that we`ve done to ourselves, and we don`t know what`s going to happen.

PINSKY: All right. Let`s keep taking a few calls. Edna in Arizona - - Edna.

EDNA, ARIZONA: Hello. I really don`t have a question. I just wonder myself, I`m 73. What has happened to the moral compass of our society that young women think that they have to have things done to their body in order to make them internally feel good when you should feel good about yourself, no matter how your body is. I had two -- a mastectomy in both breasts and the breast didn`t make me who I am.

PINSKY: Right, Edna. And I think you heard Vanity talk about the fact that she had a difficult childhood. I think she`s talking about abuse and that she had addiction, and those are the things that are so commonplace in our country today that are afflicting people`s self-esteem, and so to me, that`s how I understand.

Thank goodness Vanity is a smart woman, a lovely woman, and she`s speaking out about this now so people can, perhaps, think twice about this. Let`s go to Queen in South Carolina -- Queen.


PINSKY: Queen.

QUEEN: I would like to address you. You are absolutely correct. Self-esteem is a large problem among women. And we have a lot of things that we have expectations that people want us to be so many things in society and as they are viewed on TV and in magazines. And when I heard this young lady`s story, the only thing I could think of was, my goodness, this is painful.

PINSKY: Yes, I`m sure it is.

QUEEN: And why is she doing this to herself? And that self-esteem just popped out on me, and then, I`m looking at a situation where it kind of reminded me of somebody that had a borderline personality where they want to have --

PINSKY: Yes. Let`s not jump to any diagnostic conclusions here. I mean, there are lots of psychological reasons for this independent of formal psychiatric conditions. So, Vanity, I want to give you a chance to answer that. Help people understand what motivates, what you were thinking when you did it, how esteem and trauma figured into this? Can you answer that?

WONDER: Well, I think that in order for anybody to have a good life, they need to have a good foundation. And I think that when children aren`t brought up with a good foundation, they do things to reflect that. And, you know, I`m an adult now, and I take full responsibility for anything that I`ve done.

But I just wonder, if I had a better foundation, if things would be different. And I honestly think that things would be.

PINSKY: Yes. Dr. Diaz, I mean, she`s -- again, I think -- Vanity, I hope you will come back and enjoy us, because you really are very articulate on this issue. I don`t think our country has this level of understanding about all the childhood trauma and the divorces and the abuse and the horrible things that are happening in our families and then how it then reflects to people`s choices later on.

DIAZ: Yes. And I think it`s commendable that Vanity has decided to come out and speak against this because she, by doing this, is helping a lot of young women and avoid the mistake she made.

PINSKY: Yes. OK. Let`s go to --

WONDER: I just don`t want young women to look at me and say, oh, I want that. I want that, because it only takes one time for you to get injections for you to die. You don`t have to go tons and tons of times. Like you say, you can develop an infection, anything can happen. I just want to get that across.

PINSKY: Yes, Vanity, thank you for saying so. One of the things that Dr. Diaz and I were talking about is you can actually -- that silicone could be injected into a vein that can go into your heart and into your lung and you can die instantly right there when they`re in the hotel injecting you. Vanity, you have a reaction to that one?

WONDER: Exactly.

PINSKY: Yes. OK. Good. Wendy in Indiana -- Wendy.

WENDY, INDIANA: Hi, yes. I am just curious if this is more of a racially segmented thing. I don`t see it happening in Caucasian women as much as I do in African-American women.


WENDY: Does she have a say so on that?

PINSKY: All right. Well, that`s an interesting question and vanity, very straightforward, she`s smiling at this. The white woman we had earlier, Caucasian woman, was having the breast enlargement. Is this something racially somehow figuring into it, she asks? What do you say?

WONDER: Actually, injections transcend any border you try to put around it. The thing with White women, they just don`t pervert it as much as we do. They just don`t get it as big. Oh, they`re still coming to get it, definitely. You know, Asian women, Spanish women.

We`re all doing it. It`s just that in the more urban cultures, they`re just getting it bigger. But everybody is doing it, without a doubt.

PINSKY: And I have to remind myself that our last guest, Lacey, also had butt injections -- butt implants as well as breast implants. Dr. Diaz, thank you for joining us. I appreciate it.

DIAZ: My pleasure.

PINSKY: And vanity, thank you so much for being so clear and well- spoken on this issue. Hopefully, you`ll be a --

WONDER: Thank you for having me on.

PINSKY: -- a voice of reason going forward.

And now, we`re going to take more of your questions after the break on any subjects at all. It`s 855-DrDrew5. And we will be back after this.


PINSKY: A reminder, the Daytime Emmy Awards are this Saturday. HLN is airing the event live at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. You can see all your favorite soap and daytime talk stars right here. I`ll be there. We`re going to have showbiz on the red carpet and really should be a really interesting evening. I`m very excited about being a presenter of that.

All right, moving along. A story out, Actress, Emma Stone, says she suffered from panic attacks as an adolescent, and she says they were debilitating, causing her to retreat from friends, and she says acting helped her take back control. Now, I wanted to -- I asked my staff to put this story out there because -- there she is behind me, in interest of full disclosure.

I had panic attacks when I was about that age. They often come on in late adolescents, 19. They`re often associated with mood disturbances. They`re associated with that big transition, that 18 to 22 transition, people leaving home, but they can be awful. They can be debilitating. There`s -- some people say there are two kinds of people in the world, people who have panic attacks and people that have not.

And when you had them, you know it. And you feel like you`re dying. You feel like you have a heart attack. You feel like you`re going crazy. And there is good treatment for that. That`s the message. Melissa in California -- Melissa.


PINSKY: Hi, Melissa.

MELISSA: I`m very curious -- hello, Dr. Drew. I`m very curious about the physiological explanation for panic attacks.

PINSKY: Well, you know, all these symptoms that are of a psychological/psychiatric nature are happening in our brain. And panic attacks, the simplest way I can describe it to you, it`s like a circuit opens and it spirals, like what they called a circus (ph) circuit. It spirals up. And if you have ever -- imagine yourself, like, drowning, that`s panic.

That`s what panic feels like. An anxiety is sort of like -- the way I describe people is like anxiety is I`m fearful of going in the ocean. That`s anxiety. But when I`m out in the ocean, I start to drown, that`s panic. And that is your brain firing off in a way that`s really unregulated, and it`s often associated with disconnection from emotions, people feel sort of disconnected from them.

Got to take another break. If you want to ask any questions, call 855-DrDrew5. We`ll be back right after this.


PINSKY: Welcome back. Before I get to the phones, I was just still thinking about panic attacks. I didn`t talk about the kinds of treatment, there`s medication, some called Celexa, anti-depressant, sometimes anti- anxiety medicine for short-term, and then, talk therapy is very helpful as well.

It`s something that if you don`t get treated, actually, you can go from panic to chronic, severe anxiety, sort of generalized and be really quite debilitating.

Off to the phones, Lori in Washington -- Lori.

LORI, WASHINGTON: Yes. Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Hi, Lori.

LORI: Hi. I have a question just in general, at least, on the theme tonight. I`m just wondering what you think of a society that teaches women that their self-worth is predicated on her ability to cause a bodily fluid to shoot out the penis, because it seems like that`s all there is. If you can`t do that, then you`re probably not much of a woman and your whole life seems to be, you know, judge on that ability.

PINSKY: Let me answer that as simply as I can. And just say that in many respects, we become sort of primitive, right? Rather than having more evolved ways of defining our self and our worth, we`ve evolved -- devolved into just how we look and how we function in a physical exchange. That`s a devolution rather than being to able to contribute and strive to do something higher.

I agree with you to that extend that there`s a problem here. And women, as always, women carry a bigger burden in so many things. They take on burdens in our world that actually makes me sad. So, I agree with your concerns. The solutions are pretty complicated.

Let me go to Wayne in Florida -- Wayne.

WAYNE, FLORIDA: Yes, Dr. Drew. I was just asking about the tattoos and body piercings. Don`t they fall underneath the same thing as body enhancement?

PINSKY: They do. They actually tend to go more towards people who are doing body, you know, body mutilation. If you remember, I had -- I forget who I was talking to on this very program, we had someone who was doing cutting and that kind of stuff. And those people, as their cutting settles down, will sometimes get into piercing and tattoos.

And my experience, I`m not passing judgment on anybody, I`m just saying in my experience. My patients report to me when they do a lot of piercing and a lot of tattoos, it`s often because they had physical abuse in childhood. It`s a very common antecedent to people having those issues.

In terms of body enhancement, it`s a little different in that so much of what we saw from these women who were sort of fetishistic. You know, like I said, female, cross-dressers.

Jennifer in South Carolina -- Jennifer.

JENNIFER, SOUTH CAROLINA: Yes. The question is, how common is it to be a functioning alcoholic, as be an addict, when you are a soccer mom and nobody would ever suspect it?

PINSKY: Well, mostly talking about the opiates, Jennifer, because opiate addict can function for long periods of time without people ever knowing. Even injection opiate addicts, you`d be shocked. I`ve had people very high functioning for long periods of time because you`re basically using the drugs to be normal at that point in your disease, and so, you seem normal.

In fact, it gives you energy and you don`t get those flu symptoms of the withdrawal. Your hassle ends up being how you get the drugs. And of course, because it`s progress of the amount escalates and as the amount escalates with time, then you start really having the trouble with the behavior. So, what I can tell you, and we`re talking about you, right?

JENNIFER: Yes, sir.

PINSKY: Yes -- is that this is going to -- the house of cards will fall. Badly. It will not go well for you or your children. So, I suggest you talk to somebody who really knows how to treat this and you do so quick. Let`s take a quick call now from Ron. Ron in Texas -- Ron.

YVONNE: Hello.

PINSKY: Yvonne. Yvonne, I guess, it is?


PINSKY: Yes. Go ahead.

YVONNE: Yes. I was wanting to know if you were seeing therapist, how long should someone see a therapist? Would it be for about a year, five years, ten years?

PINSKY: Really tough question. Very tough question. There`s a lot of research and ink being spilled on shorter term interventions, and certainly, an insurance standpoint, there really isn`t anything available on a long-term basis.

I personally believe that if you have trauma, you`ve got to be prepared to do things on a long-term basis so you can develop a deep relationship with that therapist.

I want to thank you all for watching. It`s been interesting tonight. We`ll see you next time. Next up, you have Nancy Grace, and Nancy starts right now.