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Infidelity: No Big Deal?; Casey Anthony One Year Later
Aired July 5, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.
Now, why does your man turn to other women for sex? My guest says men need variety and you should just accept. His Web site helps people cheat.
I`m also speaking to a prostitute who says she is helping your marriage by sleeping with your husband.
And one year ago today, a jury acquitted Casey Anthony of murdering her daughter, Caylee. Lots of you naturally are still coping with the disbelief and anger. This is where you can call in and get it off your chest.
Let`s get started.
PINSKY: From perhaps your friend`s husband to powerful men like John Edwards, why do men seem to be the cheaters?
Take a look at this.
PINSKY (voice-over): John Edwards, a high profile politician who took the low road by cheating on his cancer-stricken wife, has he become the poster boy for infidelity. He fathered a child with his mistress while presenting himself as the ultimate family man. Why did he do it?
Brooke Taylor says men cheat because they want intimacy and they`re not getting at home. She`s a prostitute at the Nevada`s Bunny Ranch. She claims that half of her clients are, in fact, married. She says the service she provides relieves tension which in turns helps marriages. She`s here and you`ll get a chance to talk directly to her.
Noel Biderman goes even further. Women he says should stop glorifying monogamy. They should deemphasize sex as a central tenet of marriage and forgive unfaithful spouses who were only doing what comes naturally.
He founded what some call the cheaters` Web site, AshleyMadison.com. The site has 14 million members and many are married.
PINSKY: All right. Before we get in this conversation, a couple things. Wednesdays, generally, we`re going to try to do sex and relationships here on this program. It`s something I`ve been addressing 30 years on radio and television. It`s something everyone has concerns about. So, we`re going to try to put a focus on these topics.
Tonight`s episode, you might want to get little kids out of the room. I`m fearful it could get in content I wouldn`t necessarily want young kids exposed to.
And again, these are important topics. Relationships -- nowhere else in the interpersonal experience is so much who we are and whatever pathology we have might get acted out.
Joining me: Simone Bienne, sex and relationship therapist and my "Loveline" co-host.
I also have Noel Biderman from AshleyMadison.com.
Now, Noel, you work with a lot of cheating men and women. I just want -- for starters here: do you have any thoughts on John Edwards?
NOEL BIDERMAN, CEO, ASHLEYMADISON.COM: You know, I think maybe I`m one of the few people out there that might be able to defend John Edwards. I think when you`re removed in place and time from your family, extended family, you have a number of temptations thrust in front of you -- many people give in to those.
And so, I think he`s just human like everybody else. So, a lot of celebrities, a lot of entertainers, athletes, politicians tend to fall victim to infidelity more often just based on those opportunities and removal from their immediate family in place and time.
PINSKY: All right. I want to go because, Simone, I know you`ve got a -- you`ve got an engine running at a high speed here. But I want to go right to calls.
This is Carol in Washington. Go right ahead, Carol.
CAROL, CALLER FROM WASHINGTON: Hi. Thanks, Dr. Drew. I completely disagree with this ridiculousness. I find that people -- people that are married, especially men, and just men. But men need to keep their penises to theirselves if they`re saying they want to marry somebody.
PINSKY: So, Carol, to interrupt you -- you`re saying there`s nothing with getting around, after you made a sacred commitment, it means something, right?
PINSKY: Right, I agree wholeheartedly.
CAROL: In the "Webster Dictionary", it says it`s a unity of man and woman, OK? I think it should just be monogamy -- monogonamy (ph) anymore.
PINSKY: I hear you. I know what you.
Noel, what do you think?
BIDERMAN: I think you could challenge that monogamy isn`t really well-negotiated at the outset of a relationship. It`s not something that people tend to talk about truthfully. And so, they find themselves in long term relationships and marriages and there`s nothing they really contemplated.
So, a great book for your viewers to read would be "The Monogamy Gap" by Dr. Eric Anderson who really does explain the almost cognitive dissidence where so many men find themselves in this self-fulfilling prophecy of love being, you know, able to carry at the end of the day. It`s just not being true. It ends up being that you are incredibly attracted to so many other people and don`t know what to do with it and you are very stressed. I think your upcoming guest is going to talk about that.
So, you know, I think this is an eternal story. Infidelity has been around since we`ve been in relationships and it`s not going anywhere.
PINSKY: Simone, you and I know strongly. I`ll let you address this. Go ahead.
SIMONE BIENNE, DR. DREW`S CO-HOST, "LOVELINE": No. I am going to speak up on behalf of women on America and also going to stand up for men, because men don`t want to be this kind of guy. I totally hear you when you say about opportunity. I totally disagree with you when you talk about monogamy.
Most men who are intelligent understand the benefits of monogamy. If we talk about the devilishly basis, the fact is men pee in toilets. They can also be trained to be faithful and every single man I have come across who have been unfaithful hates himself for it.
Men I know want to be monogamous. And if they have, it`s not to say that we can`t find other people attractive. But this is about impulse control, you know?
PINSKY: And it`s about the richness of a relationship that gets diminished when people cheat.
Andy in Georgia, what do you have for me?
ANDY, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. I love your show.
PINSKY: Thank you.
ANDY: I`m just wondering -- do you think there is an innate genetic component? And I`m speaking from a sort of Darwinian procreation standpoint that compels men to cheat and makes it almost unnatural for them to maintain monogamous relationships.
PINSKY: Let me just -- let me -- Simone, I let you answer that. One aspect of that, I address that by saying if you look at every health parameter that you can measure on a male, they`re enhanced by monogamy. Life expectancy, probability of certain illnesses, happiness -- every measure you can come up with, monogamy enhances that.
Monogamy -- it has a healthiness to it. It has to be maintained. It has to be nurtured. When you -- when you diminish it, you injure it and you decrease the probability that you`re going to et everything you need from it.
Now, in terms of there being some sort of genetic element here -- yes, of course, if we were just out in the -- still, 10 million years ago, we were out in the bush -- yes, look at the way other primates behave. There`s no doubt in that environment when our life expectancy would be not out of childhood and once out of childhood, maybe 20 years at the most, yes. Then in terms of advancing our genes through time, yes, there`s a genetic push for that.
A woman has a massive investment in every sexual encounter. It`s potentially 18 years providing for or at least risking her life. You got to remember that throughout history, 20 percent to 50 percent of women would be expected to die in child birth.
So, we live in a different time now. Antibiotics have unhinged us from this, the hormonal contraceptives -- and unhinged us from our biology.
So, to talk about evolution and biology, I think it`s somewhat misplaced.
I`m going to go to Virginia in Virginia. What have you got?
VIRGINIA, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Good evening, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Virginia.
VIRGINIA: Asking a wife to learn how to deal with her husband`s infidelity to me is like asking a wife to learn to live in a marriage without trust. It`s like a foundation to a house.
PINSKY: So, Virginia, you can`t feel safe. You can`t feel safe if someone`s intimate sort of emotional life is being taken somewhere else.
Simone, you agree with that?
BIENNE: Yes, absolutely, Virginia. You made such a good point. Because actually, if you go into a monogamous relationship, you have trust, you trust in each other, you have faith in each other, that actually you`re going to respect each other.
You still, you know, look at some of these attractive man or woman. But it`s the sacred union, whether you`re religious or not, that is what is important. I loved Dr. Drew`s point about how men who are in happy marriages live longer!
PINSKY: Not only that, when everyone is a young screwball, have at it, don`t make any sacred commitments to anybody -- you know, I`ll talk to you about the consequences of that on a different call "Loveline" for that, where we talk about the biological and emotional consequences now.
But once you make a sacred commitment -- I mean, don`t make that commitment if you don`t want to. That`s fine.
Tara in Texas, real quick -- what have you got?
TARA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Dr. Drew.
I have a comment and kind of a question.
TARA: My comment is that I did -- my marriage has survived an infidelity. We`ve been married four years and two years ago, my husband made an unthinkable mistake. And, you know, it kind of really made us both look at ourselves and realize how did we get here? And try to build our marriage from the beginning.
It blessed our marriage, you know. It taught me forgiveness and changed our marriage for the better. I don`t know if that happens for everybody.
TARA: But, I just -- a lot of your guests are trying to excuse the behavior as just something men do. But when you think about why men cheat, the core reason typically is depression or egos or sense of control. You know, these are deep psychological traits.
Why do we keep excusing the behavior as something they should do when we should say, look, we really need to treat you and care for you and nurture you through this issue because it`s causing you to do things that hurt people?
PINSKY: Tara, you bring us great points. I see Simone vigorously shaking her head.
I`m going to allow here to tell about you about her clinical experience with this particular issue. I`m going to give Noel a chance to respond to you before I go to break.
Go ahead, Noel.
All of you after the break.
BIDERMAN: You know, I think what`s really important here is there is a psychographic at play. I don`t think we should be telling your viewers, though, that somehow it`s a negative one. That somehow these people are acting abnormally. The majority of people will be unfaithful at one point or another in their lives, the majority. That`s important to hear.
And not just necessarily doing it because of some sort of emotional short many coming. Sometimes, they`re doing it because of a pure biological sexual desire. That might be looking for something different than their partner can even give them. For example, married men who want to have same sex experience, their partner can`t all of a sudden become that same sex thing, but that is a real drive for millions of men.
I know it`s hard to explain. That isn`t necessarily psychological. That`s a lot more biological from my perspective.
PINSKY: All right. We could argue that particular point all day.
Next up, I`ve got Brooke Taylor, a legal prostitute. And she`s here to tell you the sex she has with your husband is going to save your marriage. And Simone is going to address her experience with the issues Tara brought up first.
Be right back.
PINSKY: Welcome back. A reminder: we`re taking your calls live at 855-DRDREW5.
And we`re talking about people who cheat. I want to remind you but the reason we`re doing this study is couple-fold. One is -- listen, isn`t one of the big reasons we need healthy families so we can raise healthy children and for families to be healthy, you primary relationship has got to be nurtured and healthy?
And I will tell you, if you cheat, that relationship takes a body shot. It doesn`t work that way. If you don`t want to get married, don`t have kids, fantastic, have at it. But this is important.
And not only that, in my experience, and, Simone, you`ll probably bear me up on this, that happiness -- in terms of -- I`m a physician. I deal with people at the end of life. When you`re trying to understand the meaning of life, they`ll always come to the same place, which is the important relationships and the time they spent and intimacy that they experienced is what created real meaning and happiness.
Now, studies show that worldwide, one in 10 men have paid for the services of a prostitute. So, we`re going to will look why married men go in search of extramarital sex in this manner.
My experience is mostly sex addicts do this. We`ll talk about it.
Before we bring our guests in -- Simone, we were talking to Tara before the break. She brought up the fact sometimes after an episode of cheating is sort of unearthed, the relationship can get through it, but it can be better. You`ve had that experience many times with patients.
BIENNE: Yes. And what is so beautiful to see is that when it happens, what happens is -- because you`re keeping your eyes on the relationship, it means that you can suddenly learn about yourself. You kind of go through like a therapy in the couple therapy room, you learn not to act out, you learn to deal with your emotions.
PINSKY: There was something going wrong that caused the man to act out, something contributed in the relationship.
BIENNE: With men, they`re not taught to have emotion, but it`s OK to express themselves. It`s OK to deal with any kind of anxiety.
PINSKY: Here, things like Ashley Madison tell them, hey, it`s OK to have an affair. That would solve all your problems.
BIENNE: What upsets me about that, the message given to American families, because, Dr. Drew, you and I both know this passes down to generation. At what point is this going to stop?
PINSKY: All right. We`re going to talk to another person that has a point of view. Her name is Brooke Taylor. She`s a legal prostitute who works at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch in Carson, Nevada.
Now, Brooke, you can ring in on this. I understand about half your clients are married, is that right?
BROOKE TAYLOR, LEGAL PROSTITUTE: Yes. I would say about half the clients that come to the Bunny Ranch are married.
PINSKY: And what do you learn about these guys that are frequenting the ranch?
TAYLOR: Well, I learned that they love their wives and a lot of times they just want variety, something new. They`re not really looking for long term affairs. It`s just sort of assisted personal pleasure.
PINSKY: Oh, what a relief. They`re not looking for a long term relationship, just sex. Let`s take some calls.
Let`s go to Jessica in Utah. What have you got, Jessica?
JESSICA, CALLER FROM UTAH: Hey, Dr. Drew. I am actually with a married man. His situation is so different because they`ve been together so long. And now, it`s just like her friends, her family, her life. And - -
PINSKY: Wait. Jessica, wait. You`re having an affair with a married man and you are believing the lies that he feeds you about how awful his wife is? Is that what we`re saying here?
JESSICA: Yes. It`s like, when did it become all about her? If it`s all about her and never about him, then I can understand why these guys are stepping out.
PINSKY: Hey, Jessica, Simone and I go into rooms and close the door and hear from the couples. And believe me, when you hear from the wife, it`s all about him, right? Wouldn`t you say?
There`s equally shared dysfunction in a relationship like that.
BIENNE: The thing is what you`ve got to look out for is --
TAYLOR: I have to agree.
BIENNE: -- when you`re in a relationship with a married man, that doesn`t say a lot for your self-esteem. That makes me sad, because how can it be a fulfilling relationship? You`re always going to be somebody`s second best as a mistress.
PINSKY: Brooke, you agree with that, right?
TAYLOR: I actually -- I do agree. A lot of men I see are really there to have their ego stroked. They really just want a boost in confidence more than anything else. I mean, they`re narcissistic at best.
PINSKY: Well, OK,that`s a pretty honest appraisal.
All right. Let`s talk to Sheila in Virginia.
TAYLOR: It`s true. They don`t always come in for sex. Sometimes the excitement that I`m not going to roll my eyes when they tell the same story their wife has heard 30 times, 40 times, 50 times before, you know? So, a lot of times it is making them feel good because, let`s face it, they`re at stressed at home, they`re stressed in relationships and sometimes they want to feel special, too.
PINSKY: But, Brooke, you`re going to pretend to listen to them and pretend to make them feel special -- be honest.
TAYLOR: Absolutely. It`s absolutely superficial.
TAYLOR: It is absolutely superficial.
And they`re seeking something in me they really should be seeking in their relationship, I`ll agree with that. But it is what it is.
PINSKY: Do you want -- I don`t have time really for another call. You want to address that real quickly, Simone, because I thought she was saying something really good.
TAYLOR: I really am grateful for you, Brooke, saying that. What men need to do acting out, need to act in their relationship and get into couple therapy where you can make each other feel special and appreciate each other. You don`t need to act out. Sorry if I talked you out of a job, Brooke.
PINSKY: There are plenty of guys that will give her a job.
She does bring up an interesting point. There are guys that cheat because they are sociopaths. They don`t appreciate that people have feelings. It is just about their drives and needs.
There are guys that are narcissistic and feel sort of entitled and have trouble with emotions -- emotions that don`t have meaning to them. When they have a need, they started feel entitled to acting out in special ways, and they are sex addicts. So, people that were injured in childhood and act out in all kinds of ways that are hurtful to themselves and other people.
More of your calls after this, 855-373-7395. Stay with us.
PINSKY: We have been talking about men and particularly married men and their seeming need to stray. And let`s fair, we haven`t zeroed in on women very much. A lot of women cheat, but they tend to cheat for different reason. They tend to cheat when their emotional needs aren`t getting met in their primary relationship.
We outlined some of the reasons men cheated before the break.
My "Loveline" co-host, Simone Bienne, is here. Also, got Brooke Taylor, she`s a legal prostitute at Nevada`s Moonlight Bunny Ranch.
Now, Brooke, do you ever feel guilty? You said you were with a lot of married guys. Do you feel guilty sort of participating in their acting out behaviors?
TAYLOR: No, simply because there is a definitive line between emotional and physical relationship between us. I feel -- I find some comfort at least knowing that they have enough respect for their wife to come where they`re going to be safe and not take home a disease or have someone really interfering with their relationship.
And, ultimately, I`m not the one that made the commitment -- responsibility lies on them, not me.
PINSKY: You are thinking like a woman when you talk like that. Again, women get much more upset about emotional cheating, intimate cheating emotionally than physical cheating. You are saying yes, Brooke?
TAYLOR: Absolutely. Absolutely.
But I have learned every relationship is different. And so, really, if they`ve spoken and discussed what they define as cheating, sometimes their husband visiting me doesn`t fall within that realm. So, it really just all depends on each relationship. It`s all about communication.
PINSKY: All right. Again, we`re not talking about telling everybody how to live their life. We`re talking about what`s healthy and what`s not, and Simone and I are worried about families here.
Jessica in Utah, you`ve got a question.
JESSICA, CALLER FROM UTAH: Yes. My thing is why aren`t we doing it about women? Women cheat just as much. I have friends who got into a marriage and then she ended up cheating on a guy.
And with my situation, it -- for him, it seems he thinks it`s all about her. She says that in the marriage room, it`s not all about -- in the counseling room, it`s not all about her, it`s all about him.
But when do we start switching the roles and start telling the women that they can`t cheat as well? They do it just as much.
PINSKY: I think -- you know, I don`t disagree with that at all. I think Simone disagrees with it. We`re saying it`s for a different reason.
And again, in this day and age, when 10 percent of the population has major mental health issues -- 60 million Americans every year have significant mental health issue, abuse of various type is on an absolute pandemic status in this country and families are destroyed, very few people know how to have good stable intimacies and tend to feel uncomfortable in close relationships and again, act out.
Sheila in Virginia, very quick -- Sheila.
SHEILA, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Thank you for taking my call.
PINSKY: Sure thing.
SHEILA: I just think this is wrong. I think if you`re going to be married, you should stay with the person you`re married to. Cheating is cheating.
And to go out and pay for sex, it`s just not right.
PINSKY: You`re taking issue with the very word "cheating" itself.
Simone, I`ll let you wrap this up. We got 20 seconds.
BIENNE: I think what we need to do is if you`re in a relationship, you feel something isn`t right, then go and get professional help because you can have, as Tara said, a better relationship because of it.
Don`t act out, don`t lose your integrity. Be the man or woman you are and protect your family.
PINSKY: Don`t be in a rush to get married when you`re younger. This business of a mid-life crisis makes me sick. People should have been doing that when they were kids.
Thank you, Brooke. Thank you, Simone.
One year ago today, a jury shocked the world by acquitting Casey Anthony of murdering her daughter, Caylee. Next, I`m speaking to Jeff Ashton, the prosecutor who attempted to put her behind bars.
PINSKY: One year ago today, a jury found Casey Anthony, amazingly, not guilty of having killed her 3-year-old daughter, Caylee. The verdict sparked, well, I mean, so much emotion, including sadness and anger.
Here now is what I think many of us were thinking the day this went down. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? Not guilty? (EXPLETIVE DELETED) damn. She got off on murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I love me some angry grandpa. I think of him fondly to this day. But he sort of embodied what many people were thinking on that day.
I want to hear what you were thinking a year later. Call us 855-373- 7395. And a quick reminder there is a 24/7 line you can call at that number. We will hear your message, get back to you.
Joining me is attorney Mark Eiglarsh, who helped me out endlessly during this trial. And the prosecutor of the Casey Anthony trial, Jeff Ashton.
Jeff, here we are a year later, how did this trial change the trajectory of your life?
JEFF ASHTON, CASEY ANTHONY PROSECUTOR: Well, it changed it completely. I, you know, retired after the trial was over, as everybody knows. And I, you know, wrote a book, and that was a very good experience for me. And, it sort of led me now to what I`m doing now which is to running for office back home for the local state attorney`s office. So, it`s been an interesting year. A lot of changes.
PINSKY: And Mark, you say it actually changed the way the legal system is operating in Florida?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, for me, anyway. You know, when I have picked juries since this trial, I bring up the case. And I generally bring it up during jury selection. And I`ll ask them, can you hold the prosecutors to the highest burden under the law (ph) which is beyond a reasonable doubt?
And everybody says, yes, sure, because that`s what they`re supposed to stay. But then I say, that means that there are people like Casey Anthony, for example, let them bring it up. And if they don`t, I`ll bring it up that might get away with something but really be guilty. How are you with that? How do you feel about that? Would you hold that against my client? I`d get it out there, Drew.
PINSKY: Let`s go to call. Teri in Florida. Terry, you have a comment.
TERI, FLORIDA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Teri.
TERI: Thanks for having me on the show.
PINSKY: My pleasure.
TERI: Just angry as the grandpa, to tell you the truth. And I do have one question for Jeff Ashton. Is Matt Morgan going to be able to use Jose Baez`s book against Casey in the Zenaida trial?
ASHTON: He might be able to use any statements that Baez quotes Casey as saying. I suppose he could call Jose Baez and have him testify to that. The book itself, as an exhibit, no, probably would not be admissible.
PINSKY: Teri, are you going to buy the book?
TERI: Definitely not.
PINSKY: OK. I think that way most of our viewers felt. Most of our viewers were angry with us for even having Jose on the program. I just wanted to hear what he had to say. I mean, you know -- people got angry. People are very emotional about this case.
PINSKY: Terry evidently as well. Let`s go to one of my jurors. We used to call them every night, would bring them in. And this was Kathy, the sharpie lady. She organized the people that were going into the courtroom. She created order out of chaos, there she is. Kathi in Florida.
KATHI "SHARPIE LADY," FLORIDA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Thanks for having me on.
PINSKY: Welcome back.
KATHI "SHARPIE LADY": I just wanted to say, I probably am still as outraged as I was the day that I sat in court listening to the closing statements. I was so shocked that the jury could overlook what seemed to be such evidence.
My friends at work, I drive by the courthouse every day on my way to work and my friends at work and I were just kind of reminiscing about the fact that one year has gone by, yet so many of us still have such raw emotions, and we probably will do something to make sure that Caylee is gone but not forgotten.
PINSKY: I`m glad hear that. I think that no matter what you feel about this case, I think that`s an important thing to keep top of mind. And Mark Eiglarsh, you taught me to understand the not proven principle, which is still something I choke on. It gets in my throat here when I hear it, but thank you for educating me about the legal system.
Are there -- for you or Jeff, are there things that we`ve learned about Casey Anthony in this last year that helps us understand her any better or is she just as much of an empty set as she was back when we`re trying to analyze this case. Mark, you first.
EIGLARSH: You know, I try not focus on her, candidly. Really, this was never about her, even though in the court of public opinion it was. For me, it was always, can the prosecutors explain how this happened? Do they have proof beyond a reasonable doubt? That`s the legal side. And apparently, these jurors unanimously all felt that there wasn`t enough evidence.
Personally, obviously, I felt differently. And as a citizen, I was outraged because not guilty, to most people means that the person didn`t do it. But as I taught you, that`s not what that means.
PINSKY: I had to learn that the hard way. And Jeff, I guess, Rob Lowe will be sniffing around soon. He`s going to play you in the movie about this situation. Do you feel she is going to be portrayed in a way in the film even that we can understand her any better?
ASHTON: No, my understanding of the film is that she is really no not -- she`s not a feature of the film. The film is more about sort of the experience of doing the trial, not really about her. She is -- she is more or less a sort of a prop in the movie more than a developed character. And I don`t think any of us really know anymore about her than we ever did. I don`t think we ever will.
PINSKY: I think you`re right. I think you`re right, Jeff. Although, I`m fascinated by the obsession that people still have with this case. Let`s keep going to our callers. Anita in West Virginia -- Anita.
ANITA, WEST VIRGINIA: Yes. Thank you, Dr. Drew, for taking my calls.
ANITA: I have a question. This is either for Jeff or for Mark. If Judge Perry or if Mr. Ashton has explained the circumstantial evidence, how the jurors were to interpret it and use it in the deliberations, do you think that right now, Casey would be sitting behind bars had they had more understanding of how the circumstantial evidence works?
PINSKY: Let start with Jeff.
ASHTON: Well, I mean, the judge gave them all of the explanation that the law allows him to give. So, you know, he can`t comment on the evidence. He can`t comment on how they put it together. He gave them the rules that they had to apply, and then, you have to leave the jury to apply them. You know, the jury had the tools. How they put the evidence together, that`s up to them.
PINSKY: Jeff -- Jeff, do you have regrets, in retrospect, about this case? And Mark, you agree. I just heard that, but I want to ask this quick follow-up with Jeff. Regrets?
ASHTON: Regrets? No, I really don`t. I mean, I`ve -- you know, I`ve been asked that question a lot. Is there something we would do differently? And I honestly, you know, other than some small things that we might do differently, there`s really nothing I feel that we could have done differently that would have changed this jury`s opinion of the case. I just can`t think of anything.
PINSKY: Mark, do you want to respond to that?
EIGLARSH: And I agree. Yes. I think Jeff Ashton, not just because we`re on the show together, I strongly believe he and everyone on the prosecution team did the best they could at their level of awareness with the evidence that they had.
And I don`t think anyone, Vincent Bugliosi (ph), anyone else who claims to be somebody who can prosecute would have been able to carry this jury to the highest burden under the law with the evidence available.
PINSKY: Jeff, thank you for joining us again. Mark, I miss going steady with you. Welcome back.
Next up, I`m taking your calls on anything and everything. Stay with us and give us a call. 855-373-7395.
PINSKY: It is time for your questions and comments. So, let`s get started with this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENE SIMMONS, MUSICIAN, REALITY STAR, PHILANTHROPIST: Hi, Dr. Drew. It`s Gene Simmons. We all live in a very pampered world. How can you help me, how can you and I make everybody get a huge guilt complex about not doing something for those less advantaged than we are, the disadvantaged?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Wow. Gene, I was so sure he was going towards trying to manipulate people to buy something with a Kiss logo on it or something. I was convinced of that, but Gene, I`m not sure you can guilt people into making a difference. I think you have to inspire people to make a difference.
And one thing research has shown is that people who act in a morally inspiring manner inspire other people to do the same, at least, in a short- term basis. So, you, sir, and me, we should do as much as we can for other people, and that will inspire, and then, that will be contagious. By the same token, being abusive and negative is contagious, as well.
But, I think the little key is to help people really understand that service to others gives life meaning. We`ve lost track of that. Come on, Gene. It`s not all about marketing Kiss. OK. Just saying.
Kendra in Texas -- Kendra.
KENDRA, TEXAS: Hi, Dr. Drew.
KENDRA: I have a question.
PINSKY: I`m waiting.
KENDRA: I went to this show to see this guy perform. He`s a musician. And I guess, I was so excited to see him. And afterwards, you know, I gave him a card and asked him if he wanted to hook up, you know? I mean, he let me down gentle. You know, he wasn`t mean or anything. I haven`t heard from him. I mean, obviously, I should just let this go, right?
PINSKY: Yes. I mean, no, Kendra, come on now. I mean, first of all, thank God this guy was a human being. Many of these people that have someone throwing themselves at him, which is effectively what you did, and I`m sure that happens a lot to him, will take advantage of that.
The probability is he probably is actually in a relationship. He happens to be a performer and it`s great that you had a little fantasy and you idealize who this person was. Let it be that. Have a relationship with a real person.
Antoinette in Virginia -- Antoinette.
ANTOINETTE, VIRGINIA: When is an appropriate time to talk with kids about who can -- when is -- who can touch them, can touch themselves --
PINSKY: Immediately. Immediately. No, immediately, Antoinette. Here`s the deal. Did somebody touch you or something, because this even just the thought of this brings up this incredible emotional reaction in you? So, did something happen to you?
PINSKY: Was that a yes or a no?
ANTOINETTE: No. No. (INAUDIBLE) and so, we were having a discussion as a family --
PINSKY: Yes. I get it. I`m going to stop you, Antoinette, because the phone connection is just horrible here. I only heard about every third word. But yes, of course, you immediately begin telling kids about body boundaries and the appropriateness of, you know, private parts, and you can touch. You don`t touch in public. You touch privately if it`s yourself.
Other people don`t touch under any circumstances, and if anybody does, you tell mommy and daddy, don`t feel ashamed of it. You didn`t cause that. This is a kind of -- they don`t understand the specifics or the motivations or what the implications are. So, you got to do it very gentle generalities.
But very clearly, young kids can respond to this and should be taught about boundaries, early. And you, too, have to model those boundaries. You have to wear clothing, we don`t bathe together. These kinds of things help with that very much so. So -- and don`t -- don`t load it up with such emotional content.
I couldn`t even get out of you. You like -- (WHISPERING). That`s part of being a person. Body boundaries are appropriate and rigid, and they are yours, and you should be happy with that. Emily in Kentucky. Oop. Emily. Emily
EMILY, KENTUCKY. Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: What`s up?
EMILY: Hi. OK. Um, my brother, who is in college right now, um, had come out to us saying that he was bisexual.
EMILY: First, let me say, I have no problem with that.
EMILY: I have -- I was -- my best friend was -- is gay and I was maid of honor in her wedding. I have no problem with that.
EMILY: The thing is is that -- and I know rationally, there`s nothing wrong with it. The thing is that we`ve had a lot of family trauma.
PINSKY: Oh, yes.
EMILY: Like a lot.
PINSKY: Like what? What kind of trauma? What kind?
EMILY: We found out that our father is not his father.
PINSKY: Oh. When did they find that out? How old was he when he discovered that?
EMILY: We just discovered it about, oh, I don`t know, six months ago.
PINSKY: OK. What else?
EMILY: Is that six months ago? And -- his -- we found out because our mother is -- she was an addict and she has a history of --
PINSKY: OK. OK. And let me ask you this, did any
EMILY: Psychological --
PINSKY: I understand.
EMILY: I mean, she`s crazy. She`s actually -- she`s in a mental institution now. That`s how we found out --
PINSKY: Got it, and did she ever abuse your brother or was he ever physically --
EMILY: She was -- you know what, she -- he was, but he doesn`t remember this, but I know this. When he was little, he was by his grandmother because --
PINSKY: He was physically abused or sexually abused?
EMILY: I caught her doing something.
PINSKY: OK. Emily?
PINSKY: Hold that thought. I`m going to answer it and tell you precisely what we can do for his. I got to take a break. We, of course, taking calls at 855-373-7395. Reminder, we have a 24/7 hotline available. You can leave a message. We`ll get back to you. We`re going to finish this call with Emily after the break.
PINSKY: Back to the phones. I want to finish the call with Emily. Emily, are you there?
PINSKY: OK. So, summarize your case. Your mom is an addict. She`s now hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital. Dad is not your biological father. Your brother now has come forward as being bisexual and you know because you witnessed your grandmother sexually abusing this kid when he was a child.
PINSKY: OK. Here`s the deal. You don`t have to remember abuse for it to have a residual affect on your brain. It affects the way we develop. It affects particularly sexual abuse, can affect sexual orientation, can affect our ability to regulate emotions. It puts us at risk for all sorts of psychiatric problems and addiction.
So, here`s the deal, Emily. You got to get him to treatment. He`s had trauma. I mean, personally suffered trauma. He`s got a family that`s falling apart. This is going to take a team of mental health people to help him. And when I hear somebody with that kind of history talking about being bisexual, what I hear is they`re confused.
I`m not saying there isn`t such a thing as bisexual. What I`m hearing is he`s spinning like a top, and he`s had some sexual trauma. He needs to figure out what he is. Maybe he will end up being bisexual. Maybe he`ll be gay. Maybe he`ll be straight, I don`t know, but he`s had trauma, and he needs to go to somebody that`s specializes in treating that. You got me?
EMILY: I thought that. Yes.
PINSKY: I think you`re going to hear about drug use, too, right? That`s often what goes with this. Is he doing drugs?
EMILY: No, no. Actually, he`s 4.0 in college.
PINSKY: Good. Outstanding. Fabulous. Keep that going. But it`s going to -- the house of cards waiting to go with all he`s been through. So, please get him some mental health services, all right? The school will have it for sure.
EMILY: Well, thank you.
PINSKY: All right. Emily, good luck, let us know how it works out.
EMILY: Thank you.
PINSKY: OK. Jenna in Nebraska -- Jenna.
JENNA, NEBRASKA: Hi there.
JENNA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Thanks for taking my call. I had a question about -- I have a disorder that I`ve had since I was eight called trichotillomania.
PINSKY: You pull your hair. You pull your hair. Trichotillomania -- yes, it`s a very challenging disorder. I`m sure you`ve been on the medication, right?
JENNA: About 20.
JENNA: Just been no relief whatsoever (ph).
PINSKY: OK. The one thing I will tell people if somebody is suffering with this if they pull your eyebrows, full you eyelashes, you know, pull hair until they get a bald spot, or some people pull all over the place and they have balding throughout their scalp, if you`re going to use medication, medicines like Prozac tend to be the most effective, but they have to be in very high doses like 80, 100, 120 milligrams, much more than we would ever use for depression.
And, it takes weeks and weeks for the anti-compulsive component to kick in. Have you had that proper treatment? Have you had enough of these medicines?
JENNA: I really have.
JENNA: And it seems like the side effects with the nervousness and the --
PINSKY: I understand. I get it.
JENNA: The agitation that they cause are almost worst than the agitation I feel.
PINSKY: I feel you. I get you. Medicines are always have a downside. And then, did you have any psychological or behavioral treatments? I`m sure you had some of that, too, right?
JENNA: Right. And it`s even less. Right now, it`s to a point where it`s stress reduction, because stress has just taken over lots of other issues
JENNA: But this seem to be kind of a hereditary thing in the family.
PINSKY: It does. Yes. A little bit. And Jenna, here`s the deal --
JENNA: A little bit of skin picking, a little bit of --
JENNA: And I was watching your show on the cutting, and I was wondering if they were at all related.
PINSKY: Not really. There`s some crossover, but I wouldn`t put them as directly related because cutting is really about an inability to regulate unpleasant negative emotion. That`s a desperate bid to regulate. Trichotillomania is a little more of a biological obsessive compulsive disorder this present even in spite of unregulated emotion, though, it does, you say, get worse when emotions are high.
And most -- and many people find, as I think you are, that you kind of learn to live with it because the treatments are not that great. So, a lot of people with trichotillomania do learn to live with it and just find ways to manage their stress and other elements, so the symptoms are reduce. And they just kind of live with it.
There are, actually, societies and organizations out there on the web. I suggest you avail yourself with that, because the biggest thing I found to be helpful is talking to other men or women when they have this that have this problem. I got to go to one last call. Mary in Minnesota -- Mary.
MARY, MINNESOTA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Mary.
MARY: Thank you for taking my call.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
MARY: Well, we`re talking about anti-depressants.
MARY: Just sounds like -- yes, I take antidepressants and I believe, can`t be sure, I was hoping maybe you can confirm this, that I have unusual dreams, very vivid.
PINSKY: Oh, sure.
MARY: Upsetting dreams.
MARY: Is this the cause because of my antidepressants?
PINSKY: Absolutely. Almost any medication can cause bizarre dreams, but especially psychotropic medication. Some people have no dreams, unpleasant dreams, good dreams, but it definitely affects your dream, which I find so almost comical, and people go, oh, I`ve had these horrible dreams, got to interpret them.
Yes. Here`s the interpretation, the medicine messed with your brain chemistry and made have you bad dreams. That`s it. That`s what`s happening. Don`t worry about this.
MARY: Very upsetting. Is there anything I can do or take to counter at it?
PINSKY: That`s a tough question. You have to talk to your psychiatrist about or your doctor. But usually, if I have a patient with unpleasant dreams, I would try a different medication. Who`s my next caller? I`m sorry, Mary, I`m going to go to the next call. This is Jennifer in Michigan. Jennifer, real quick.
JENNIFER, MICHIGAN: How are you?
PINSKY: Hi. Good.
JENNIFER: I have a question. I moved to Michigan back in September, and I have a lot of problems with my husband`s family. They harass me. They bother me a lot. And my sister-in-law, she`s kind of like type of person where --
PINSKY: Jennifer, I have ten seconds. What`s the question?
JENNIFER: OK. The question is how would you handle something like that?
PINSKY: With very firm limits, and it`s appropriate to protect your family from people that are attacking, insist on a relationship with them, that`s built on respect and only if they respect those boundaries and you do you maintain a relationship with them at all. Back after this.
PINSKY: The men and women of our armed forces inspire us every day. And HLN is committed to sharing their stories of bravery. Navy Lieutenant Brad Snyder was blinded by a bomb blast in Afghanistan, but his injury has only made him stronger. Take a look.
LT. BRAD SNYDER, U.S. NAVY: Everyone`s got a unique story and everybody`s made sacrifices and everybody`s story is inspirational. And that`s what makes something like this warrior games things so special. It`s a very humbling experience.
It`s really -- it really puts things in perspective and everyday that you kind of think, well, I got a crappy lot or whatever, you look at some of the other people and what they put up with and it puts things in perspective really quick.
And again, it`s just awesome to kind of participate in something that`s so patriotic. After hearing that I was going to be blind for the rest of my life, I had made a decision that I was only going to be moving forward. I`ve made it a point to kind of adopt that mentality, there`s nothing I can`t do and if you challenge me to do it, I`ll try my best to do it.
It`s a fruitless effort to look back, a decision I made and it`s been awesome. And actually, I think making that decision the way that it was has allowed me to not really have a lot of anxiety over going blind. It was just kind of -- a new hat that you wear, a new jacket, you know, I`m blind now. OK, moving forward.
Being taken out and riding the bench is not fun for anyone. So, to be able to get back in the fight in a different manner is immeasurable, and I think that that sentiment is shared by all the people here at the warrior games.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is going to be quick.
SNYDER: So, to be able to share that camaraderie in a new way with a whole -- different people, and again, it`s not relegated to service. It`s all the services here. It`s really an awesome experience, and that sentiment shared by all the soldiers, sailors, and marines here.
PINSKY: Join us for "The Stories of Courage" encore special Saturday and Sunday at 2:00 p.m. eastern. Thank you all for watching. "Nancy Grace" begins right now.