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DR. DREW

Report Condemns Penn State; Miramonte Abuse Scandal

Aired July 12, 2012 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

The Freeh report is out and the findings are shocking. Did Penn State officials care more about the school`s image than about kids Jerry Sandusky molested? And why didn`t they do more?

I`m diving into the report and talking to current and former students about this alleged culture of silence.

And later, parents sue a California school district for failing to protect their kids from an alleged pedophile teacher.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

PINSKY: Tonight, Penn State`s leaders failed to protect children and empowered Jerry Sandusky to attract even more victims. That according to an internal review released earlier today.

Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS FREEH, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Most saddening and sobering finding is the total disregard for the safety and welfare of Sandusky`s child victims by the most senior leaders at Penn State. The evidence shows that Mr. Paterno was made aware of the 1998 investigation of Sandusky, followed it closely but failed to take any action.

The most powerful leaders at Penn State University, Mr. Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley, repeatedly concealed facts relating to Sandusky`s child abuse from the authorities, the board of trustees, the Penn State community and the public at large.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Very powerful Penn State officials failed to protect children who had been sexually abused by Jerry Sandusky. They appeared to be putting the interest of the school above those of the kids.

Freeh believes Paterno could have done more to help children who were ultimately harmed.

Now, could the famed football coach have taken action that might have prevented at least some of this abuse?

Joining me, former Penn State football player Lee Rubin and author of "Win: Simple Insights to Help You Win the Game of Life", and Penn State alumnus and attorney, Brian Claypool.

Brian, what is your reaction to the report?

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, ATTORNEY: Well, the report is horrifying. It not only shows that the top officials at Penn State knew about Sandusky committing this child abuse but they intentionally concealed this information from law enforcement, from the Department of Child Welfare and also from the board of trustees and the entire community.

In my opinion, they were facilitating and empowering Sandusky to continue to prey upon kids at Penn State.

PINSKY: Do you think they didn`t understand they had an obligation to report it or they intentionally obfuscated that responsibility?

CLAYPOOL: No, they knew. They knew. They are mandated reporters in the state of Pennsylvania.

PINSKY: I know that. But they`re behaving as though they don`t understand. Paterno behaves like somebody who is in denial, (INAUDIBLE) Sandusky. And the guys behave like people that didn`t understand their reporting obligation.

CLAYPOOL: It`s about this, Dr. Drew. It`s about this right here. It`s about the money. It`s money. And money -- money distorts reality. It`s a big machine at Penn State.

I went to Penn State. The football team generates revenue for that community.

PINSKY: Lee, do you agree with what Brian is saying here?

LEE RUBIN, FORMER PENN STATE FOOTBALL PLAYER: You know, there`s -- let me first say that our thoughts and prayers continue to go out with the victims in this case because with every event, every time this case comes up, they have to relieve this experience -- and I do want to make that statement to start.

You know, a report has come out and there has been a lot of information that has come out and I have stated this earlier. I really want to take the time to read it, digest it and understand the entire report. And I think we ought to give those indicted in the report an opportunity to respond. I just think it`s a fair thing to do that.

PINSKY: All right. Let`s look at some of the internal e-mails that have been released in the report.

Here is something between former Vice President Gary Schultz and former athletic director Tim Curley. It`s about the 1998 investigation into Sandusky`s abuse of a boy. This is the famous locker room incident or the shower incident, I guess.

Curley wrote, quote, "Anything new in this department? Coach is anxious to know where it stands." Paterno seems to be having some interest in this. Investigators say, of course, that the coach refers Paterno there.

He told a grand jury, Paterno did, that he didn`t know anything about the incident, though, and here, there`s evidence that he didn`t know anything until 2001. But here is evidence that he knew about it and was concerned about it.

CLAYPOOL: Right. There clearly is now an inconsistency that`s been developed through these e-mails. It looks like Joe Paterno may have committed perjury before the grand jury because there`s now evidence that he was aware of the 1998 incident.

PINSKY: Lee, I want to back up this is just sad that we have to have these conversation. It`s sad for people -- it`s sad for alumni. It`s sad for the people that may have been in denial. It`s sad for people that may not have understood their reporting obligation.

RUBIN: Sure.

PINSKY: It`s not sad but reprehensible people did know what their reporting obligation was and ignored it, that`s unbelievable. But, you know, it is just something that -- let`s agree on this, Lee, that the school had the testimony merit to step up and open themselves to investigation from the former FBI director. I mean, they were really willing to go to the mat now.

Unfortunately --

RUBIN: I agree.

PINSKY: -- it might be too little, too late though, Lee.

RUBIN: Sure. No, I think it`s important that we are getting to the truth and that`s really all that I stated before. It would be unwise of me or anyone else to defend individuals who are guilty. That`s just unwise.

And I`m not here to necessarily defend any one of their actions because if you`re guilty, as with Jerry Sandusky, you should pay the price for your guilt and for your wrongdoing.

The tough part, as a former player, is -- especially as it relates to coach pattern know, everything that I`m reading is completely inconsistent with what I knew about him and his actions on a daily, consistent basis. That`s the tension, that`s the difficulty for us, not that I`m defending it, but it`s just hard to understand -- to read one thing but to have experienced something else.

PINSKY: I get it. Let me take a quick call from some of our viewers here.

Linda in Mississippi, you wanted to ring in here? Linda?

LINDA, CALLER FROM MISSISSIPPI: Yes. Yes, I do.

I want to know, what is the obligation of a fiance to inform his future wife that there is sexual abuse going on in his family, that there is a molester lurking in his family that may affect their future children?

PINSKY: So, Brian, what is that obligation? Do you know that offhand? I`m not sure is there a reporting obligation of an individual in a family to other people? This happened to you, Linda?

LINDA: Yes.

PINSKY: This is happening right now? You`re thinking about marrying someone?

LINDA: No, it did happen and it had tragic consequences for one of my children.

PINSKY: Oh, my God. I am so sorry. That, to me, is more about pathology than reporting obligation. When families keep secrets for -- and keep somebody`s secret safe so as not to hurt them, they will hurt other people.

LINDA: Exactly.

PINSKY: Are there actual obligation?

CLAYPOOL: Right. It`s more of a moral obligation in this context. I think overall, though, everybody has a duty -- if you suspect there is child abuse going on, you have an obligation to communicate that people that may be affected by it.

PINSKY: Linda, I`m so glad you called in with this but I`m so sorry it happened to you. My hope is by you bringing this up, this becomes sort of a warning shot to other people out there to be willing to talk about this problem.

Nothing else comes out of this case, perhaps they will have done a service to people out there who are keeping this quiet in their own families, or people who suffered as children or adults who haven`t spoken up about this. They should feel empowered to do so.

I think that -- if we take nothing else away from this, that would be a good thing.

Got to take a break. Next up, the Paterno family responds to more of these allegations and we`ll have more of your calls as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNETH C. FRAZIER, CHAIR, SPECIAL INVESTIGATION TASK FORCE: We, the Penn State board of trustees, failed in our obligation to provide proper oversight of the university`s operations. To be absolutely clear again, we are accountable for what`s happened here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Another question though is could Joe Paterno have done more to prevent Jerry Sandusky from sexually abusing more kids?

Earlier today, his son, Jay Paterno, appeared on ESPN, defending his father`s reputation. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY PATERNO, SON OF JOE PATERNO: In 2001, when this was brought to Joe`s attention, Jerry Sandusky had never been charged with a crime. In no way, shape or form did anybody believe that he was a child predator.

So, again, it`s easy to say that there was callous -- that it was callous indifference, but anybody that knows Joe Paterno and knows what he has done with his life knows that there is no way, shape or form Joe Paterno would have put anybody in harm`s way for another win or for his legacy or bad publicity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Or maybe for money. It`s what Brian Claypool was alleging.

The Freeh report accuses four of Penn State`s most powerful in the institution of protecting each other instead of the kids. They are the late Joe Paterno, Penn State`s head football coach for 45 years; former president Graham Spanier, forced out of office in November but still a tenured faculty member, not charged; former Penn State senior vice president, Gary Schultz, the man who oversaw university police, he is charged with failing to report abuse, and perjury in addition; and finally, Penn State athletic director Tim Curley on suspension right now, charged with failing to report abuse and perjury.

Curley and Schultz have pleaded not guilty.

Joining me, former O.J. Simpson prosecutor and author of "Guilt By Degrees", Marcia Clark, and via Skype, Penn State student Catherine Janisko.

First, I want to start with Marcia.

You had a very strong emotional reaction to this report?

MARCIA CLARK, PROSECUTOR: I was so delighted to see it come out. I was really very hopeful when I heard that Louis Freeh was conducting the investigation, that he would not shy away from telling the truth about who was responsible, who knew what, when and should have acted.

And he didn`t. He didn`t. He went right for it. He said there is no question -- in fact, he even further than he needed to and said they violated the Clery Act, which is an act that requires them to report and collect data and information on any allegations of child abuse. He said they violated that act, which is going to be something very helpful to get an indictment on those who have not yet been charged.

PINSKY: Let`s explain that act, the same thing that obliges, say clinicians to report child abuse or it`s something different?

CLARK: It`s similar. It`s similar, same idea.

PINSKY: So, institutions around the country, schools, high schools, grammar schools, universities, they all have that obligation to report even the hint, right?

CLARK: Right. Right.

PINSKY: Whom do they call?

CLARK: They should be calling police. They have to report to police. They have to report to their superiors at school.

PINSKY: And social services, right?

CLARK: And social service.

PINSKY: So, they have three reporting obligations. Why doesn`t every person in an institution like that know that? That`s my question.

CLARK: Well, I`m not saying --

PINSKY: I don`t think they know it. I don`t think they know it.

CLARK: I`m not sure. These guys --

PINSKY: Those guys maybe.

CLARK: That`s what I mean.

PINSKY: Those guys maybe, or they may have thought about it as they were going through this experience certainly.

I want to go out to you, Catherine. How are the student body, or you, yourself even, responding to this report?

CATHERINE JANISKO, PENN STATE STUDENT: It`s unbelievable. I mean, actually you to me, it is not shocking whatsoever. I was waiting for this moment to come. I said from the very beginning, it`s not a matter of if, it`s a matter of when, because regardless of who goes down, even if it is Joe Paterno, they are all going to go down, every single person involved.

And to know that these four gentlemen acted like little children running away from this moment, that they could have captured these children and saved this torment that they are going through for the rest of their lives, it`s really, really sad and very upsetting.

PINSKY: Now, Catherine, we are sort of having a conversation here in the room about whether or not this was sort of a premeditated attempt to hide because of money and other priorities? Is it denial? Is it a lack of understanding their obligation, or some combination of these things?

What do you guys think as students?

JANISKO: I don`t -- I have spoken to students and I don`t think it`s a lack of understanding their position and how they have to handle these situations, because you should be smarter than that. I mean, there`s no excuse for that.

Maybe it is a cover-up for money. I can`t add any speculation to that. I don`t know about that for sure.

But there`s -- the moral of the story is there`s absolutely no excuse for what these gentlemen did.

PINSKY: Let`s quickly take some calls.

Darlene in Pennsylvania -- Darlene, you wanted to ring in here, too?

DARLENE, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Yes, I`m an alumni at Penn State and just devastated by everything that`s happened over the past month. And I just -- I guess for me to, like, understand any of this, I want something constructive to come out of all of this, you know? I didn`t get through all the Freeh report because I`m sitting here with my box of tissues.

PINSKY: Oh.

DARLENE: So you know, I think that the true heroes here are the kids who testified. I think they were constructed about they made a difference and hopefully, they have made easier for other kids who are in that situation to speak out and, you know, understand that people will believe them.

Penn Staters will believe those kids.

PINSKY: Darlene, I think again, our call verse been so right on today. That I think is to look at the potential for this to elevate the conversation.

Do you think it will, Marcia?

CLARK: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I have never been more hopeful a new day is coming. This is a huge development, that this jury was following convict and boy, they did a great job with this conviction. We`ll talk about the appeal at some point. I`ll tell you how their verdict really made their verdict bulletproof.

PINSKY: So, it made it difficult for Sandusky to have an appeal?

CLARK: Good luck with that one. I don`t think he is going anywhere with that.

But it really, I think, is a new day in terms of holding the people in charge responsible and going after the people who are in these positions of power, not shielding them anymore or pretending that they didn`t know. It`s really a wonderful development and I think it`s going to have huge repercussions across le board for everyone in a position of power who should be acting to take care of these children.

PINSKY: Let`s try another call real quick.

Kathy, also Pennsylvania -- Kathy.

KATHY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Kathy?

KATHY: What do you think about the thought that maybe some of these universities, specifically Penn State, actually had a protocol to sweep it under the carpet?

PINSKY: Marcia, it`s a good question. I can`t -- if they do, it`s got to be in the Freeh report.

CLARK: Yes, I don`t know that they had a specific formal protocol. What I think they had was a culture of understanding that they are going to protect their own and -- CYA, basically -- because the football program is extremely lucrative. That`s lot of money that comes in. We are talking millions and millions and millions of dollars come into the school as a result of it.

So, nobody wants to jeopardize their program that brings the money in, that funds their own -- that feathers their own nest. So I think it is kind of an understanding that they are going to keep things as quiet as they possibly can and that`s what they did.

PINSKY: OK. We`re going to take a quick break here. There`s a lot of discussion online about whether the statue of Joe Paterno should come down. That`s pretty intense.

More of your calls, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Welcome back.

Many people are react together Penn State report. Here now is a Twitter.

This is from @TedStryker. Stryker says, "Penn State protected a child molester, a coach and an institution, and worried about bad publicity, they cared zero percent about the victims. Sickening."

Catherine Janisko, the statue of Joe Paterno -- are people actually calling for that statue to come down?

JANISKO: I`ve heard that. But there are a lot of people who want it to stay up. There are students who think that it would be a tragedy to tear it down because he was such a legend at Penn State.

And, you know, I feel for his family. I have empathy. Death is never an easy thing.

But that gives no justice to the things that Joe Paterno did. I don`t know what they are going to do with the statue. I know people say that -- some people say it is staying up would just make everything worse, because it`s just a false icon now.

PINSKY: What is the mood on campus generally now that this report is out? Do people just want to get through this and move on or are people feeling -- some other feeling out there?

JANISKO: I think people want to move on because in this case, this is clearly and strictly about the victims and people think that students don`t realize that, but they really do students want the best for these victims and the sad thing is that they are never going to be justified, ever, because they have to live with this forever -- for the rest of their lives.

PINSKY: Catherine, I got to tell you, that`s why I`m so pleased with this story. It`s awful. It`s horrible. The Freeh report is shocking to read.

But to elevate this conversation, Marcia, and talking about victims and talking about child abuse. Listen, I started talking about child abuse, sexual abuse of children in the early `90s. And for 15 years, people would say to me, oh, it`s always been there. We are just talking about it now.

No, it`s an epidemic in our country and it`s high time we really talked about it as that kind of a problem.

CLARK: I really agree. I have to say: it`s so wonderful to hear from someone like Catherine. And I have tell you when the trial was going on, people were tweeting to me and writing to me, Facebooking me about we don`t think this jury is ever going to convict him, they will protect their own, sweep it under the rug again.

PINSKY: But no.

CLARK: You know what? I stood up for them.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLARK: I said I don`t believe you. I think this jury is going to do the right thing and I was so happy to be vindicated. It just says so much good about the people of Pennsylvania, that they said, you know, we are not going to stand up for this, we are not those people. Very stand up, very cool.

Wonderful for you, Catherine. It just says everything good about where we are at today and the generation in college today. So proud of you.

PINSKY: Quick call before we go to break. C.E. in Kentucky -- C.E.

C.E., CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: I have been here long before this Penn State thing broke up, I have been hearing about universities spouting their crime statistics, making the campus look safer than it is. And that whole system needs stop.

But, you know, when this first came out, they were -- Penn State`s reaction was he couldn`t use the shower facilities anymore. To me, that was no different as saying don`t molest them here on our campus. Molest them at home.

PINSKY: Yes. C.E., you`re raising an issue that I`m concerned with, is that the college campus and places where we spend our kids and spend tens of thousands a year need to be on record. They`re going to be held to the same clinical and moral standard as the rest of us.

This is not some sort of ivory tower where they are not up to some -- they have their own standards. It`s a community standard where all are going to hold that standard.

Catherine, thank you. Marcia, thank you, of course.

Next up, did a code of silence lead to the alleged abuse of at least 23 elementary school kids in Los Angeles? We`ll talk about that after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Straight ahead, are child sex predators hiding in our kid`s schools? Dramatic new developments in the horrific new allegations of abuse at a California elementary school a parent of one of the alleged young victims is calling in.

Plus, your call and questions about anything and everything.

(MUSIC)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

"ALEX", ALLEGED VICTIM AT MIRAMONTE ELEMENTARY: (INAUDIBLE) is like a real laid-back teacher, like one of those cool teachers, like who you look forward go-to-going to his class every day. Yes, I was (INAUDIBLE).

PINSKY: What did that mean?

ALEX: Well, like I said on Fridays, like, would you have little prizes for the kids who were good, like the good kids. Would blindfold them and give them prizes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That was a boy we`ll call Alex. I had spoken to him in February. Now 14, he is still coping with abuse he allegedly suffered at the hands of Miramonte elementary school teacher Mark Burnt.

Now, Burnt is charged with committing lewd acts with 23 children in his classroom. Parents now suing the school district. They say a code of silence hid the abuse that may have gone on for decades.

Joining me again, Brian Claypool, attorney for some of the alleged victims at Miramonte School. And CNN Espanol reporter Jacqueline Hurtado.

Brian, was there a culture of silence there?

CLAYPOOL: Categorically, there was a culture of silence. And I can tell you, I verified that because since I was last on your show, I received phone calls from at least three teachers who teach in the Los Angeles unified school district who had gone to administration in the Los Angeles unified school district and reported suspected child abuse. And what happened to them? They were retaliated against. They were told we don`t believe you.

They were demoted, and they were practically run out of the school. That proves that what they are doing is facilitating a code of silence, and they`re saying don`t report this.

PINSKY: Is that the administration or is that other teachers?

CLAYPOOL: It starts at the top, Dr. Drew. This has been going on for 20 or 30 years. Berndt was doing this back in the early 1990s. It`s a culture. It`s not unlike Penn State. It`s a culture that`s been created. And I`m telling you, it is all about the money.

A lot of folks don`t know this, but for every child that doesn`t show up in a classroom in a Los Angeles Unified School District, the district loses money. They get money if kids show up at school. So, then they have a decision to make.

Are we going to take this teacher to task for alleged child abuse and risk losing a bunch of funding or are we going to roll this under the carpet because we got to run a big business here?

PINSKY: Now, Jacqueline, you`ve been giving us the point of view of the community, the community members, parents who have the kids at the schools. What`s the current feeling on the ground there?

JACQUELINE HURTADO, REPORTER, CNN ON ESPANOL: Well, I`ve recently spoken to a few parents and I talked to this woman who said it took her about a month to actually report what was going on that her son was a victim.

PINSKY: And you told me they were fearful of reporting, right?

HURTADO: Yes, because of their legal status. We have to remember that wherever Miramonte is located, the community is a working class community. The majority of the community members are immigrants and a vast majority of them are undocumented. So, many of them didn`t report what was going on because they feared that authorities would go after them because of their legal status.

PINSKY: And you would also taught me that the way the Hispanic community looks at a teacher, it`s almost like a parent or family member, and we see wouldn`t (ph) think of reporting, or you might be a big resistance to that?

HURTADO: Yes. A lot of the parents that I spoke to said that they really never saw anything bad with Mr. Berndt hugging their children, attending birthday parties or things like that. So, when they heard the news, they were extremely surprised that this was going on for several years allegedly.

PINSKY: But you mentioned something here, Jacqueline, attending birthday parties. Brian, that`s sort of a boundary violation already. That`s -- you know, any time teachers show up in situations where they`re not teaching, kind of you`re in a circumstance where it can be problematic.

And I guess, the community sort of welcomed that kind of thing. But the reality is, professional standards would suggest otherwise.

CLAYPOOL: Dr. Drew, clearly, there are red flags that were floating everywhere. At Miramonte, red flags floating at Penn State. We, as human beings, have to see these red flags.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLAYPOOL: Inviting kids to parties. I interviewed some kids were Berndt had them on his shoulders out in the middle of the play area, girls, little girls on his shoulders. I mean, at some point, you have to say this is not --

PINSKY: Not OK.

CLAYPOOL: Not OK. You don`t even need the law to tell that you need to pick the phone up and say, look, I think this dude is weird. Let`s look into it. Do something.

PINSKY: Right. Now, I understand, Brian, you have something that you wanted to report here on our show, something brand new that I don`t know what this is, you tell me.

CLAYPOOL: Right. I wanted to, you know, announce on your show that after the Miramonte scandal unfolded, I took it upon my self to write a letter to President Obama and to his wife, Michelle Obama, and I implored them to look into the Miramonte scandal, because I`m a single parent of a six-year-old girl, and I had to look into the eyes of all these kids and see the terror in their face.

And I asked President Obama to launch a federal investigation of Miramonte and the Los Angeles Unified School District. Please to report that I received a letter from the Washington, D.C. FBI office. They`ve opened a file in the local FBI office, and we are very, very hopeful that very soon, there`s going to be a full-pledged federal investigation of Miramonte and the Los Angeles Unified School District.

PINSKY: I know. We`ll stay on top of that. I`m certain Jacqueline will stay on top of that, too. I`m going to take a quick call. Ashley in Georgia -- Ashley.

ASHLEY, GEORGIA: Yes.

PINSKY: Go ahead.

ASHLEY: Hi.

PINSKY: Hi.

ASHLEY: I called in about -- I`ve had an experience in high school where my high school teacher would press himself up against me, like his genital region, like in the hallway when it was really crowded, and he would like whisper in my ear, squeeze me. And then he`d kind of cough, excuse me.

PINSKY: Oh, my God! Did you report that? Did you get any support?

ASHLEY: No. I never did.

PINSKY: I mean, there`s actually name for that. It`s called frauderism. It`s not OK. It`s a violation of your basic integrity of your body boundaries.

ASHLEY: Yes. And I felt that. I felt completely violated, but I had prior sexual abuse that I had reported from a family member, and I reported and was not believed.

PINSKY: Ashley, unfortunate and horrible reality is that abusers somehow pick out people that have been victimized and they intuitively know that that`s a good victim who won`t come to their own defense because they`ve been victimized. Will you please -- let`s just do an exercise. Report that guy now. Brian, don`t you think she should? Just in case he`s out there still doing his thing.

CLAYPOOL: Just to validate for you, Ashley, we`ve had a couple young adults in their early 20s that have come forward and contacted my office to ask that same question. Can we still report Mr. Berndt for something that happened 15 years ago? Absolutely do it, Ashley. It`s going to help you feel better and help you work through this.

And also, you will then know that you will stop this individual from doing this to somebody else.

PINSKY: And remember, this is a new day. When Penn State has elevated this conversation to something that`s being broadcast throughout the country, I think people know to take this stuff seriously, finally. Thank you, Ashley.

We`re going to talk to a father whose son was also allegedly abused at Miramonte Elementary School and your calls. That`s next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: We`ve been discussing an apparent code of silence at Miramonte Elementary School in Los Angeles. Apparently, this allowed someone power to allegedly abuse students for a year on year (ph) basis. Now, we had a call, Ashley, a few minutes ago, it was a very intense call. And I want to put a little emphasis on this.

I used the word called frauderism, which is when people lean up against you, they kind of get off on that, and may say things inappropriate, may make you feel like they`re violating your body space, which they are. And we`ve had a lot of calls today, people asking, was this sexual abuse? Did somebody abuse me?

If you feel like it was sexual abuse, please report it. Do not sit in silence. Tell people, because the probability is, if you felt violated, you were not the only person that this person has violated. Brian, do you agree with me on this?

CLAYPOOL: Dr. Drew, absolutely. The law even says you report suspected child abuse. It doesn`t have to be actual.

PINSKY: That`s the point.

CLAYPOOL: Suspected.

PINSKY: Yes. And this is the part that killed me about the whole Penn State thing. We, as physicians, know that if we even have hear say the possibility, we hand it off to an investigating organization.

CLAYPOOL: Absolutely. You know what offended me about the Penn State was when that lawyers came out and said we -- these allegations were vague. We didn`t know they were --

PINSKY: It doesn`t matter.

CLAYPOOL: It doesn`t matter. If you suspect it, you`ve got to call it in.

PINSKY: Now, Jacqueline, I understand there`s some other legal action being taken at Miramonte right now? Tell me about that.

HURTADO: Yes. On Tuesday, law firm presented a second lawsuit against the school district and two principals that were at Miramonte, and what this new lawsuit claims is not the children are involved in this one but the parents.

On behalf of the parents, this lawsuit is being filed saying that the children that were victimized or alleged victims of this case, their families, are being affected psychologically. So, there`s a new law -- a new lawsuit that`s been presented on behalf of the parents of 14 children.

PINSKY: And you have told me, the parents did feel somewhat terrorized by all of this for fear that they were going to be deported, fear -- all kinds of fears that, you know, maybe we don`t always think about, but these people, these families are feeling.

HURTADO: Yes. And when I spoke to some of these parents, they say they just didn`t know what to do. I guess, it just took them by surprise, everything that was going on. One of the parents that I interviewed said that they looked up to Mark Berndt like someone important.

Whatever he said, they would do it if he said that their children needed to study hard or they needed to be disciplined a certain way, they would have probably taken his advice because he`s a teacher.

PINSKY: OK. Well, speaking of parents and how they respond, on the phone is Paul. This is not his real name. He is the father of Alex who says that he had been victimized at Miramonte. Paul, if could you tell us what Alex alleges his teacher did to him.

VOICE OF "PAUL," SON ALLEGEDLY ABUSED BY TEACHER: Hi, Dr. Drew. Thank you for allowing me to be on your show again.

PINSKY: Yes, Paul.

"PAUL": (INAUDIBLE) he never told me nothing. The fact of being blind fold and putting this stuff in his mouth, you know, is kind of horrific for him to live through, you know?

PINSKY: And Paul, how is your son, Alex, doing now?

"PAUL": He`s doing great, doctor. He`s doing great. He`s in high school now. He knows everything is a struggle. We try not to talk about this, but we`re there for him. He already talks about it, but come on, it`s on the news every other day. You know, there`s (inaudible) reacting over all this.

Teachers that are arriving with all this problems, you know? Me, my personal opinion, they`re doing a lousy job because if they would have done the right thing since decades ago, then all these allegations after Mr. Berndt (INAUDIBLE) all these new teachers are coming out. I mean, what`s going on, you know, the LAUSD should focus on getting to the bottom of this. When are they going to put a stop to all this?

PINSKY: Paul, I`m going to interrupt you for a second. Brian, you wanted to comment on this.

CLAYPOOL: Yes. Well, two things. First of all, Alex is also in counseling. We`ve made sure that he`s got counseling. He`s regularly going to counseling. And another -- in order to try to stop this from happening, I think Penn State is a gift to us today.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLAYPOOL: Looking at in a positive light. It`s a blueprint for us in the future to try to make positive monumental change.

PINSKY: Yes.

CLAYPOOL: The only way we`re going to do that, though, I really believe this is, we really have to start prosecuting top officials, like at Penn State, for what`s called criminal conspiracy to commit child endangerment.

When you start sending a message to top executives at the Los Angeles Unified School District, at Penn State, or this could be happening at any other school across the country, you start sending a message that there are repercussions for your failure to stop known child abuse on your territory and you`re going to -- then you`re going to pay the price.

PINSKY: Do we need to bring administrators in from all across the land and help them understand what their obligations are, reporting obligations and that sort of thing? I don`t think anybody does that.

CLAYPOOL: You know what, that`s where I think you and I differ. I know you`re trying to see this in a positive light. I just -- I don`t buy it. I really think --

PINSKY: You think they do know? I don`t know that they know. If they do, fantastic. I hope they do.

CLAYPOOL: Consciously, no. They`re taught, they`re trained, they`re mandated orders.

PINSKY: Fair enough. If you say so. Jacqueline, thank you for reporting, and we`ll keep checking in with you on how that community is doing. Brian, as always, I appreciate you coming here and telling us about that -- particularly about that FBI story. It`s something we`ll stay on top of.

CLAYPOOL: Thank you, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: All right. Now, I`m switching gears. Next up, I`m going to report on a medication that a lot of men take to prevent balding that they need to think about because there`s some long-term consequences. Plus, your calls about anything and everything. That is after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: OK. Gentlemen, would you rather have more hair or at least be less bald, or have a libido? This now is a choice guys have to make. According to a new study in the Journal of Sexual Medicine suggests that the baldness medication, Propecia, also it`s the generic drug, finasteride, has sexual side effects that may be more than temporary.

Now, Propecia is something that will help with baldness. Remember, you also can use Rogaine, something you just put on your head. I personally have had patients complain a lot about a drop in libido from Propecia. That`s nothing new.

What`s new is this study saying that it might be, we don`t know how long that will go on for, even after you stop the medicine, there`s been reports of shrinkage of genitalia, decrease in libido, depression.

I mean, things are being reported from the blocking of testosterone that makes sense. What`s new is it may go on indeterminate period of time. We don`t know how long before the side effects go away. I presume they will, but we just don`t know. So, think long and hard and then talk to your doctor about these medication.

Lisa in Michigan. Lisa, do you got?

LISA, MICHIGAN: Hey, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Lisa.

LISA: I was someone that suffered with really bad asthma, had a respiratory arrest, and went to a hospital in Denver.

PINSKY: This is as a child or something?

LISA: Oh, yes.

PINSKY: OK.

LISA: It was -- when I had my respiratory arrest, I was about 11.

PINSKY: OK.

LISA: Got taken (ph) to a hospital in Denver --

PINSKY: OK.

LISA: -- and had already been abused by my mom.

PINSKY: Physically abused.

LISA: And sexually by her boyfriend.

PINSKY: Oh, by her boyfriend? You know, again, this is -- listen, everybody. Commonplace. Commonplace.

LISA: Dr. Drew, it gets worse.

PINSKY: Tell me.

LISA: OK. Then I get to the asthma hospital and you get to talk to your counselors and your therapist and your psychiatrist.

PINSKY: Did you report the abuse then?

LISA: Oh, yes. No. They knew about that.

PINSKY: OK.

LISA: But, this is the point. They all but -- you know how kids always go into sex education and parents should sign that form?

PINSKY: Yes.

LISA: They took us down to the tunnels at this hospital, which I won`t mention their name and showed us pornography.

PINSKY: Showed you pornography? What was the intent? Why were they doing that?

LISA: They -- I don`t know what the -- I thought it was a regular sex ed class. I`m sure my mom did. It started out with audio tapes --

PINSKY: OK.

LISA: -- of people having sexual noises and --

PINSKY: OK. All right. So, this is something bizarre and inappropriate. Lisa, here`s the deal. If there`s nothing else comes out of today`s conversation, I hope, which is an understanding even as adults, you need to report these things. So, go ahead and file a report. Figure out what that was. What happened then? I mean, that`s all you can do. I hope you`re in treatment now. Are you still in treatment?

LISA: I have gotten frustrated with treatment, but I have reported to the prosecutors in Denver.

PINSKY: OK. OK.

LISA: And I advanced (ph) out treatment.

PINSKY: OK. The important thing, Lisa, though, that you take care of yourself. And anyone else out there, again, today the big message is, if somebody`s made you feel uncomfortable, you report it and then you take care of yourself there. Armies of people out there ready to help out. Got to take a break. More calls after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Back to our phones. Elizabeth in Nevada -- Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH, NEVADA: Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Hi, Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH: Yes. My question is regarding -- when is the right time to take your relationship to the next level?

PINSKY: Physically? Like physically taking it?

ELIZABETH: Physically taking it to the next level. Yes. I`ve been seeing someone on and off for the last three years, and we have yet to become intimate.

PINSKY: And are you asking this because you`re wondering why he hasn`t or you`re asking it because you don`t want to?

ELIZABETH: I`m asking because I`m wondering why he hasn`t taken the initiative to go there. Yes.

PINSKY: There`s many reasons for that, Elizabeth, and you`ve got to ask him.

ELIZABETH: OK.

PINSKY: Listen, some people value not doing that, and they would say the right time is when they get engaged and get married.

ELIZABETH: OK.

PINSKY: You know, it`s very much dependent on the -- both members of that couple. I would agree with you that it`s not standard behavior and you want an explanation and particularly if you want to take it to a different place, you should feel quite empowered to say hey, I really like you or I love you.

After all these years, maybe you`re in love with him and you would like to participate, like to have that experience with him. See what he says.

Barbara in Florida. Barbara, what do you got?

BARBARA, FLORIDA: Yes, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Barbara.

BARBARA: I never dated interracially until I was 47 years old when I had two Black husbands and my sex drive with all my past relationships before 47 was my libido only required about -- sex about two times a week.

PINSKY: OK, which is normal. That`s actually a little above normal. OK.

BARBARA: But since I`ve been dating my White boyfriend for the past 12 years now, we just started out right at the beginning.

PINSKY: And you`ve maintained -- you`ve been more active and you`ve been more active now since, yes?

BARBARA: Yes, like a trillion times more active.

PINSKY: A trillion times. That`s enough. That`s all I need to know. A trillion times gives me the picture.

BARBARA: But he tells me I`m beautiful. When I say I`m fat, he says I just want you to be happy. When I say, is my hair too gray, he says I like it natural.

PINSKY: Barbara --

BARBARA: And he`s just always sweet and kind to me.

PINSKY: Barbara, this is fantastic news. You`re in a great relationship. Don`t question that. Don`t be -- celebrate it. Encourage other women to find a guy just like this. Whatever color he is, this just happens to be a guy that is a great guy and loves you. That is fantastic. Celebrate that. Thank God for that, OK?

BARBARA: Yes, I do.

PINSKY: All right. Barbara, well done, well done. My next caller is Marcia, I guess, Marcia in Washington -- Marcia.

MARCIA, WASHINGTON: Yes. Hey, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Hey.

MARCIA: I -- ever since I had an allergic reaction to erythromycin, I get really afraid taking any medication.

PINSKY: You had a -- I`m not sure I heard you. You had a rash from erythromycin.

MARCIA: Yes. I got hives from erythromycin.

PINSKY: Hives? Was it a bad case of hives? Did it blister?

MARCIA: Yes.

PINSKY: OK. There`s something called a Stevens-Johnson syndrome. This is something I find kind of interesting. Every time you put a medication in your mouth, you can have a life-threatening reaction. I don`t care what the medicine is. There are things can go bad, and particularly, antibiotics.

The allergic types of reactions of what you`re describing here from erythromycin are very commonplace. This should not be a surprise, but, that doesn`t mean you should never take a medication or any particular -- obviously, erythromycin you got to be careful with because you`re allergic.

But other antibiotics may be appropriate for you, but the doctor can prepare for or premedicate you or prepare for these adverse events. If you`ve ever seen a Stevens-Johnson reaction, every inch of your skin sloughs off, the inside of your mouth goes, it`s just awful. That can happen.

We`ve got to be very cognizant of medication. Medication is only taken when the risks warrant the potential -- excuse me, the benefits warrant the potential risks. So, take antibiotics in the future. Not erythromycin. Be careful of what are called macrolide antibiotics in which erythromycin is one.

Thank you for your calls tonight, and thank you for watching, of course. We will see you next time. But right now, Nancy Grace begins right now.

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