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Paterno`s Tarnished Reputation

Aired July 16, 2012 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

The suspicious timing and details of Joe Paterno`s deal with Penn State. Did the Jerry Sandusky sex scandal prompt a $5.5 million payoff?

And later, the world`s heaviest woman finds a new way to lose weight - - get this -- marathon sex with her ex. She`s with us.

We`re taking your calls live, 1-855-DRDREW5.

Plus, the "Queen of Mean becomes the "Queen of Lean". Comedian Lisa Lampanelli tells me about her weight loss surgery.

So let`s get started.


PINSKY: And welcome to the program.

Tonight, we are asking: did Joe Paterno and other top Penn State officials cover up child sex abuse by Jerry Sandusky? Did the former coach receive a huge payoff knowing he could potentially be fired? Take a look.


LOUIS FREEH, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: The most powerful men at Penn State failed to take any steps for 14 years to protect the children who Sandusky victimized.

I think that there`s no question that what the report finds is inexcusable failures on the part of Joe Paterno and others to protect children.

JAY PATERNO, JOE PATERNO`S SON: At the time this was reported to Joe, Jerry had never been charged with a crime. A very -- obviously somebody who was upset about something he had seen came to him and Joe went and reported it to his superiors.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mural represents State College, not just Penn State. He has done so much for the State College community.


PINSKY: All right. Well, what`s upsetting people tonight is that according to reports, Paterno got $5.5 million when he left his job and there were reports that the statue of former head football coach, Joe Paterno, would not come down. You heard the university spokesman, however, says nothing has yet been decided.

Joining me: Penn State alum and attorney, Brian Claypool.

I also have Sara Ganim, HLN contributor and reporter for "Patriot News". She won a Pulitzer Prize for her coverage of the Sandusky case.

And attorney for Sandusky victim number one, Mike Boni.

Now, Mike, first to you, how is your client doing and what has his reaction been to the Freeh report?

MIKE BONI, ATTORNEY FOR SANDUSKY VICTIME #1: My client is doing well, under the circumstances. You know, this has been a long slog for him, from basically kicking off this entire investigation by the Pennsylvania A.G.`s office, the trial, the conviction. And then reading the Freeh report, building up all the ire within him, learning how involved Joe Paterno was in the cover-up. He`s quite angry right now, as is his mother.

PINSKY: Now, mike, do we -- something I keep wondering, you know, apparently within the institution of Penn State, they had a policy of merely reporting to superiors if a child was in danger did. They not understand their ethical, and I would dare I say legal obligation to report an allegation of child abuse? Did they just understand that? Or they actually actively relinquishing that responsibility?

BONI: Well, these are intelligent people. It`s beyond all comprehension that they didn`t understand what their responsibilities were. This was the president of the university, the senior vice president for finance and business, the athletic director. And then, of course, the true leader of Penn State, Joe Paterno, a Brown graduate.

There is no way in the world they did not understand their reporting obligations. And judging from the e-mails that went back and forth between Graham Spanier and Tim Curley and others, they knew full well what they should have done but decided after speaking with Joe Paterno not to do what they knew they should have done. And that`s a horrendous mistake.

PINSKY: And, Sara, my understanding is this may have been going on longer than people previously thought, is that right?

SARA GANIM, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Drew -- Dr. Drew, up until this point, we only knew of victims who had come forward who said they were abused. The earliest date was really like the early 1990s, and that includes some allegations that the attorney general`s office hasn`t even charged yet, that were just made publicly, the allegations were made publicly.

But what I learned today is that the police do know of at least three men, two who say they were abused in 1970s, one says he was abused in the late 1980s, who have come forward in some way, their stories are known to police. I don`t know if they testified before the grand jury. I don`t know if they were formally interviewed. I don`t know if they are considered to be credible.

But I do know they are coming forward with these stories and the could potentially have some impact if they say that they were contacted by Jerry Sandusky the same way that many of these victims that are known to were contacted, through the Second Mile, if they say things like "I was abused on campus". That would fit into the pattern.

And that would raise the question, did they say anything as far back as 20 or 30 years ago, possibly even 40 years ago? Were there people who are aware of this situation long before what we know the situation -- long before the first red flags that we know of?

Now, if the answers of these questions are true, that could have serious ramifications. I`m not sure it will have a huge impact on the criminal case.

PINSKY: And, Brian, you`re an alum, you`re an attorney, you got a head of steam here. This all look bad.

Five and a half million dollars, it looks like he put that ahead of child safety.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, PENN STATE ALUM: Look, how in the world can you pay somebody $5.5 million knowing that that person signed off on allowing a known child predator to peruse that campus of Penn State? What kind of message does that send to society?

PINSKY: Now, are you part of the alumni association? Is this general attitude people have that are associated with Penn State or people wanting to put this behind them somehow?

CLAYPOOL: Oh, no. Yes, first of all, I`m part of the alumni association and I`ve been active at Penn State. By the way, I cried when I first learned that Joe Paterno had been fired from Penn State. I also cried when I learned about the Sandusky violations.

But I will tell you now, Dr. Drew, that I am beyond the tears. I`m so upset and disgusted with what`s happening, how Penn State has handled this. And now you`re going to pay this gentleman?

Let me tell you why, real quick, why I think Graham Spanier paid him. Because Graham Spanier was in on the conspiracy. Both he and Paterno signed off on not reporting Mike McQueary`s report of Sandusky abusing the boy in the locker room. They both knew it, didn`t report it, so we had to pay him, pay Paterno, the money.

PINSKY: Now, Sarah, this is what your alumni are thinking. Is that what people are thinking on the ground there at Penn State?

GANIM: You know, I think there`s a lot of mixed emotions. I know we talked back in November, you and I, and I told you it was very somber on campus and then -- one day and the next day, it would be a roller coaster of emotions, people would get angry.

You know, when this Freeh report came out, I didn`t hear a lot of support for Paterno, which we had been hearing for -- very adamantly over the last seven months. Then over the weekend, I started to hear that again.

So, I think people are again going through this wave of emotions and some people are changing their mind about, you know, supporting -- vocally supporting Joe Paterno. Others are standing behind him and saying that the Freeh report was flawed. That`s something I have heard a lot, was that these allegations that Penn State alum, who feel loyal to Paterno, believe that Louis Freeh went in with an agenda. The board of trustees hired him, the university paid him more than $6 million to conduct this investigation.

And, really, they kind of came away without a -- without much repercussions. It was, you know, a slap on the wrist for the board of trustees. So, some Paterno loyalists feel they had to pin the blame on the dead guy basically to appease his boss. That`s just a point of view but we are still hearing that.

And on the other side, you know, we are hearing what I`ve been hearing from a lot of people for the last seven months that was Paterno was the leader at that university and that he had to have known. So, you know, there`s a lot of mixed emotions.

PINSKY: I don`t know, you bring in the head of the FBI and then question his integrity, I don`t know about that.

So, we`re going to keep this conversation going. More on all this when we return.


PINSKY: Welcome back.

We are speaking about the Sandusky case and the fact that Joe Paterno may have been paid off before he was fired.

Let me go right to the phone calls. I`ve got Allison in California.

Allison, you had a comment?

ALLISON, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Yes, I was wondering what makes this Sandusky case different from the Michael Jackson case. They are both being accused of child molestation. Michael Jackson was acquitted of all charges. No one of the victims came out and said he had done this.

Now, seems like with the Sandusky case, he seems to be -- he is going to be charged. What makes both cases different?

PINSKY: Brian, go ahead. And I`ll ask Mike.

CLAYPOOL: Yes, Allison. The difference here is we are dealing with top individuals at a major university who had an awareness of the child abuse that was going on, Paterno, Spanier, Schultz -- they were all told about the child abuse in both 1998, by the way, and then 2001.

They have an affirmative obligation to protect children at Penn State and all schools nationwide. That`s the difference here. We were talking about do they have the responsibility to safeguard kids?

And pursuant to the Freeh report, he concluded that all the -- the failures to act, Penn State administration caused future children to be abused. This is a monumental issue in our country right now.

PINSKY: Mike, you have anything to add to that?

BONI: The only thing that I would add is in the Michael Jackson case, as I recall, there were just a couple of accusers. In this case, at the trial, which I saw, there were eight accusers, all of whom gave absolutely such compelling testimony that was impossible for the jury not to find against Sandusky.

PINSKY: Let`s go to another call. Nancy in Indiana.

Nancy, you have a comment?

NANCY, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Yes. First of all, I thought initially that Joe Paterno had talked to someone about it and it never got any further. And now it seems like, you know, now that he can`t defend himself and he is dead, all of a sudden, he is the scapegoat, where you don`t hear so much about the three. Yes, they have gotten themselves in trouble or whatever, but all of a sudden it`s Joe Paterno.

PINSKY: Nancy, I agree with you.

Brian, you are saying no.

But I think what caught people`s attention today is the big payoff and, you know, he is sort of the figurehead of the school and there`s talk about his statue and I guess the halo over his head was painted over recently on a mural. I mean, he`s a symbol of this thing, even though Nancy`s got a point. He`s not really the primary issue in all of this, is he?

CLAYPOOL: He is the primary issue in it because he is Penn State. I grew up there. He is -- they sell everything in Pennsylvania with Joe Paterno`s name on it. He knew in 1998 that Sandusky showered with a little boy, touched him.


CLAYPOOL: And that Sandusky told his boy, I love you. Are you kidding me?


CLAYPOOL: Are you kidding me?

PINSKY: You know, Brian, regardless of all the other allegation, we know this to be factual, because he admitted to that, and there`s evidence, there`s hard evidence that`s just indisputable. That`s enough for you frankly.

And, Mike, is that enough for you as well? I mean, you actually talked to your client who has further allegations. But, my goodness, we have massive violation of the basic boundaries of bodily integrity with this man.

BONI: Absolutely. I agree completely.

I mean, knowing back in `98 gives him a total context to then in 2001, after hearing Mike McQueary report what McQueary saw gives Paterno the context back to 1998 and still he does nothing, still he doesn`t report to law enforcement. That`s just incomprehensible.

PINSKY: Quickly, Brenda in Massachusetts -- Brenda.

BRENDA, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Dr. Drew. Do you think that many children are viewed as liars when they first come forward, to tell of the abuse?

PINSKY: You know, Brenda --

BRENDA: This case and other cases, too?

PINSKY: Yes, Brenda, historically, I think, there was a tendency to be suspect of these sorts of allegations.

And I got to tell you, I`ve been talking about child sexual abuse really much of my career in media, because I have seen it throughout my career in medicine as a major problem in this country, almost epidemic proportion, having a massive impact on so many of my patients. And people used to always say to me, oh, we`re just talking about it more now.

But I think now, people understand, particularly this case has raised awareness that it`s something more of that.

And, Sara, we have a lot of thanks to you for having reported this and also thank you for joining us as well today.

Mike, thank you.

And, of course, Brian, thank you for joining us here.

Next up, I have Pauline Potter, we are changing the topic entirely, there she is. She was technically the heaviest woman in the world at that point, but she is losing weight through rather creative, extraordinary, unusual perhaps means. We`ll talk to her about that and we`ll take your calls about her.


PINSKY: Welcome back.

At her heaviest, Pauline Potter weighed 703 pounds. That was almost a year ago, and she took, I guess pride in being the heaviest living woman in the world.

Here is Pauline when she was on our program 10 months ago. Have a look.


PAULINE POTTER, WORLD`S HEAVIEST WOMAN: In high school, I weighed 270. By the time I was 24, I weigh about 350. By the time I had my son, I weighed 400.

The last time I weighed, I was about 703. I wrote to Dr. Phil, Oprah, Dr. Oz, and nobody would hear me.

I decided to get in contact with "Guinness Book of World Records," I thought, OK, I`m already size, I might as well take advantage of it, to get my story out there.

I want more and I don`t want my life to slip away and possibly die from this.


PINSKY: Now, since that interview, Pauline has lost about 100 pounds and she claims to have done this with sex with her ex-husband.

Joining me is Pauline Potter.

Pauline, you look more comfortable than the last time I spoke with you. It`s good to see you.

Help me understand how you accomplished this -- well, maybe that`s not the right way to ask this question -- what you and your husband have been doing to help you lose weight?

POTTER: Well, it didn`t start out as -- that wasn`t my intentions, was to say -- like I didn`t set out and say, OK, I`m going to do this. It kind of just happened that way and I did research and whatever and found out you can burn 500 calories so I guess it didn`t hurt. So I was kind of having fun and helping myself at the same time.

PINSKY: So let me get this straight, so we are saying that having sex with your ex, which already you have got to explain to me why it is your ex and having sex with your ex, that has been the way you have lost the weight?

POTTER: Well, it`s not just that. I think that -- that certainly has grabbed a lot of attention and it is in there, but that`s not it. I mean, it`s not the whole thing. I do go to my water therapy three to five times a week. I have cut out most, I can`t say all, but most of the junk stuff, I`m replacing with fruits, fresh vegetables.


POTTER: I -- you know, I do have -- you know, so, I`m eating healthier, I`m going to the pool more often.

And I`m still in love with my ex. We still love each other. We have a life-long bond that`s not going away any time soon.

And if you were to ask me what was going to happen a year from now, I would have lost a good amount of weight and probably end up married again. We still love each other very much.

PINSKY: That`s great. But your life is on the line with your weight problem. Let`s be serious about it. I mean, it grabbed headlines because you say I lost weight while having sex.

POTTER: Absolutely.

PINSKY: But your survival depends upon this. My understanding was that he was part of the weight problem at one point. Is that true?

POTTER: Indirectly. I don`t -- you know, I can`t blame him. I mean, I weighed 500 when I met him and I weighed 600 by the time we got married, I weighed 611 on our wedding day.

I think through comfort and being in love and knowing that he would love me anyway is what caused me to maybe gain during our marriage and things. It wasn`t because of, you know, he was encouraging me, by no means.


POTTER: There are fetishistic people that get into feeding and doing stuff, you know? There`s stuff out there and I want to make sure that he`s not part of the problem here, even though now he seems to be part of the solution.

But let me take a quick call before you add something.

Tammy in New York -- Tammy.

TAMMY, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hey, it`s Tammy. I love you, love, love, love you, but I do have a bone to pick with you about some of these people that are coming on your show. I feel like what can we really learn from some of these issues?

I feel like this woman, God bless her. I`m happy she`s losing weight. But is it really the right way to come out and publicly talk about your sex life? Like I`m a single mom struggling to lose weight.

I don`t -- you know, like, what kind of advice is she giving me? Go out and have sex to lose weight?

PINSKY: I think that we were trying to sort our way through that but that`s the question. Should we ignore that headline, Pauline, and really get onto just eating right and exercise?

POTTER: I think that, you know, this, again, wasn`t my idea. It kind of just happened. You know, people asked me, you know, what was I doing? You know, I may have as a joke mentioned that but it certainly wasn`t to grant headline, it certainly was not to get any attention.

It just -- I found that a lot of people in this world are intrigued that fat girls like sex too.

PINSKY: All right.

POTTER: And I really feel like it`s no different than any other person. We are all normal.

PINSKY: I got to take a break. Pauline, thank you for joining us.

Next up, comedian Lisa Lampanelli talks about her weight issues. She and her husband both had a surgery, intensive interventions to save their life. Stay with us.


PINSKY: Straight ahead, a standup comic stands up to obesity.

That`s right. Comedian Lisa Lampanelli said she is losing weight after having had surgery. She`s the self-proclaimed "Queen of Mean: becoming the "Queen of Lean". We`re taking your calls. She`s with me live. So, start dialing, 1-855-DRDREW5.


LISA LAMPANELLI, COMEDIAN: Don`t you laugh, Gene Simmons, you`re nothing to look at. How did you come up with that hairstyle, genius? You catch "Planet of the Apes" on cable and go, hmm, now there`s a look.


PINSKY: And that, of course, is Lisa Lampanelli during A&E`s "Gene Simmons Roast". Comedy`s "Queen of Mean" and author of "Chocolate Please" is here to talk about weight and maybe a food addiction.

She had a laparoscopic weight loss procedure in April and has lost quite a bit of weight I guess since. Her doctor moved 85 percent of her stomach so far lost, she has 60 pounds.

There it is. So, Lisa, some people look at surgery and say, oh my God, that is so aggressive, that`s so intense. Why did you decide to go to surgery?

LAMPANELLI: Well, you know, Dr. Drew, I have been trying to handle my weight issues by myself for 32 years. Ever since I was 18, it`s been a problem, every diet in the world, every therapy in the world and I said, you know what, my weight hit an all-time high after the I filmed "The Apprentice."

And I said, you know what, let`s take this into our own hands, get the surgery, make sure it`s safe first, get it, lose the weight, work on ourselves psychologically and make it work. So, you know, thank God it`s worked so far, 60 pounds less in three months.

PINSKY: And let me say, you look fantastic, but you always look great, Lisa. You and I have talked over the years about therapy and the emotional content of eating and sex and is that something that you have been working on and just went as far as could you with it or is that something you`re working on currently?

LAMPANELLI: Well, I definitely am working on it every minute, especially now I`m working on it more intensely from the psychological aspect because surgeries are easier to screw up. You could lose all the weight you want. You could lose 100 pounds with this surgery and then gain it back, because you down the work on the psychological, emotional issues of why you really eat, which is why I always ate.

Any emotion was a good excuse. So, basically, you have to work on it all at the same time, plus put in exercise, portion control, and if it all works together, it won`t become a problem again. So, fingers crossed, everything will just converge.

PINSKY: And the other thing, Lisa, I`ve noticed, sometimes, when people have massive weight loss is they react emotionally to losing the weight. They have sort of a different relationship with their partners, with the world, with themselves. Are you going through that kind of a transition as well?

LAMPANELLI: Well, I know this. I`m very lucky because my husband, Jimmy, also got the surgery a few months after I did. So, luckily, our relationship is getting closer because we`re going through the same thing at the same time, and I`m lucky enough that I have friends and family who have had these kind of surgeries and who totally get it. They get it`s not an easy way out.

It`s a lot harder than any diet we`ve ever done. I mean, it`s the hardest thing that exists out there to do. So, people get it. And I`m lucky enough that I have people around me who understand it.

PINSKY: And that`s the first time I`ve seen pictures of Jimmy. I only know him as the colorful name you have called him over the years, which I guess I can`t say on television. But, I guess, we`ll get to meet him. Let`s take some calls here first, Lisa. Amy in Texas -- Amy.

AMY, TEXAS: Hi. I was just wondering were you really scared when you had the surgery? Was it painful?

LAMPANELLI: Oh, no, no. We got something called the gastric sleeve, which is basically laparoscopic that you make five tiny incisions and remove a lot of your stomach, and we had just the greatest surgeon in the world, Dr. Trevetti (ph) in Paramus who we were -- we checked him out. He had referrals. I loved him.

And I just felt like, you know what, it`s a matter of time before this gets so out of control that we`re in the ground sooner rather than later. So, I said let`s handle it now, get it done, and at least give us a chance of finally living happily ever after. No pain, no gain.

PINSKY: And Lisa, just to be clear, we are -- I am definitely not here advocating a particular procedure or even bariatric procedures at all, particularly not a particular surgeon, but if you have life-threatening obesity and you have done everything else, it is something that some doctors would recommend. It`s worked for Lisa. Emma in Maine.

EMMA, MAINE: Hello Dr. Drew.


EMMA: Hello, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Hi, Emma.

EMMA: Hi, Lisa.


EMMA: My question is if you`re on state assisted Medicaid or something like that, they don`t pay for that kind of, you know, surgeries. And we got limited for counseling and stuff like that. So, it`s like really hard to, other than going to Overeaters Anonymous and trying to lose weight, to find a decent place to go.

PINSKY: Lisa, it`s really a struggle. I`m hoping that health care reform does something for these kinds of things, but go ahead, Lisa. We`ve got about a minute.

EMMA: Right. Yes. I was just going to say that makes it horribly hard, because we were lucky in that we have good insurance and we can afford to pay for it, but it`s just so sad when people can`t get the help they need. And by the way, Overeaters Anonymous is a great place to start, because I totally believe in 12-step programs.

And at least, it discusses the emotional issue, which I think for most people that`s the issue that truly contributes to weight gain.

PINSKY: And Lisa, let re-emphasize that again. Change is hard. It is really difficult to change, particularly, when it`s a powerful drive. 12-step works. It`s free. Peer support is fantastic. Having other people who understand what you`re dealing is incredibly powerful.

Next up, now, emotional eating we`re talking about. We want to talk to you about that at 855-373-7395. After the break, we have Jimmy, Lisa`s husband, who also went through this procedure. Talk to Lisa, talk to Jimmy, talk to me at 855-DrDrew5. We will be right back.


PINSKY: I am back with comedian, Lisa Lampanelli. You can catch her one-woman Broadway show "Bring Back the Fat Chick." That`s right. That`s the name of the show. It will be this fall. Three months ago, she had a laparoscopic procedure and has lost 60 pounds as a result. Joining us now is Lisa`s husband, Jimmy Cannizzaro, who had the same surgery a month ago. Jimmy has lost 42 pounds.

And Jimmy, before go on to talk about weight loss, I want to tell you something. I have known Lisa for a long time, and this is the first time I met you, and I want to tell you it`s a pleasure. You changed this woman`s life. She has been so happy since you came around, and I want to say thank you.

Lisa is a great woman and you really -- I don`t know, she`s got -- you made her happy. And congratulations for that. It`s a pleasure to meet you.

JIMMY CANNIZZARO, LISA LAMPANELLI`S HUSBAND: Well, thank you very much. Thank you very much. And I want to say thank you for being nice to her all these years.


PINSKY: Well, thank you for that. So, let`s talk about the weight loss thing. Has it been easier to go through this with your partner or it is something you were contemplating already?

CANNIZZARO: Well, you know, we both talked about at the same time. I can`t imagine not doing the surgery after she had done it, because it would be kind of strange for her to be trying to save her life and me stuffing my face with pie.

PINSKY: Right.

CANNIZZARO: You know? And she`s looking at me going, hey, I`m trying to live longer and you`re killing yourself. So, I think it would be difficult for us not to do it at the same time.

PINSKY: And Jimmy, are you doing some of the same work that she is doing in terms of trying to change the emotional context for eating and sort of the addictive quality that she has with food?

CANNIZZARO: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I have also -- I`ve started -- I changed my life a little bit as far as getting back to the gym. I`m working out every day. I walk a 5 K every day now.


CANNIZZARO: So I definitely -- yes. I definitely -- I change the way I eat. You think about everything you put in your mouth now. So, everything you decide to eat, you concentrate and go, do I really need this? No, I don`t need it. So --

PINSKY: All right. Let`s take some calls on this issue. Heidi is in Minnesota. Heidi, you had a question or comment?

HEIDI, MINNESOTA: Yes, hi guys. I was just wondering if you guys were concerned at all about switching addictions, going from a food addiction to a drug or an alcohol, because I know it`s really common.

PINSKY: Well, not only that, Heidi, but the procedure, this gastric procedure, particularly the ones like what`s called the roux-n-y, which is sort of reconnect the tubing, which is somewhat different than what these guys had, the way alcohol gets into the small bowel really increases the risk for alcoholism.

So, it`s A, are you switching to other behaviors? And B, have you noticed anything with alcohol?

LAMPANELLI: Well, I`ll be honest, Dr. Drew, I`ve been working on this emotional quality of eating for so long that I know better at this point than to do that. I think 30 years ago, I would have done exactly that switched to shopping or gambling or men or sex or something, but now, it`s like, OK, I know better and I`d rather go to a meeting and handle it or go to the therapist and handle it.

And basically, we don`t drink. We`ve never done a drug. We`re not those type of people, but I recognize where it could easily lead. So, you got to cut it off at the pass and say I`m not going to allow it.

PINSKY: Is it reassuring, Jimmy, to have your wife sitting there, she just start acting out a bunch of men if she hadn`t had all this therapy?


CANNIZZARO: I`m used to it by now.


PINSKY: I`ve heard her act. I`ve heard her act.

CANNIZZARO: Absolutely.

PINSKY: Let`s go to Jackie in Massachusetts -- Jackie.

JACKIE, MASSACHUSETTS: Hi, Dr. Drew and hi, Lisa. I`m so proud of you. You look wonderful.

PINSKY: She does look good.

JACKIE: My husband went through gastric bypass surgery, and he lost 120 (ph) pounds and has, like, extra skin, a lot of extra skin and stuff like that. He`s due for some surgery. It doesn`t bother me. I think it bothers him a little bit, but I`m also up for surgery pretty soon as well. And I`m a little worried about it.

So, have you got that yet? I mean, do you have that extra skin thing going, because that`s what`s freaking me out --

PINSKY: That is a common procedure that often will follow on these sorts of massive weight losses. Not everyone needs that, not everyone gets it, but some do. Have you guys thought about that, Lisa?

LAMPANELLI: Well, we`ve been advised to exercise as much as possible now, not just for our good health but also to, you know, try to reduce that as much as possible. And I think our loss is going to slow down enough. Mine already started slowing down. So, it`s not as extreme. So, hopefully, it won`t require that.

But if it does, if you feel bad about yourself, you got to get it done, if you can afford it. So, we`ll cross that bridge when we come to it. Hopefully, it won`t happen.

CANNIZZARO: I think the exercise is definitely key, though.


CANNIZZARO: You know, getting back into the gym is definitely key for that.


PINSKY: This next caller, I believe, is Pogie. Is that the name? You`re in California. Pogie, hi.

POGIE, CALIFORNIA: Yes. His. Santa Cruz, California. And Liza, I love you. I was rooting for you. You were my favorite on "Celebrity Apprentice." Hey, I just want to know, now that you`re going to be a skinny bitch, are you still going to be funny?


LAMPANELLI: Well, you know what`s funny about that, Dr. Drew, I had Pogie which I thought you said hoagie, and you were trying to throw in my face the name of a sandwich.


PINSKY: That was for Jimmy. The hoagie was for Jimmy. Just so you know.

CANNIZZARO: I appreciate that. Thank you.

LAMPANELLI: But you know what, I feel like I`ll never be a skinny one, because when I grew up, Dr. Drew, you know, we`re about the same age. When you were a size 12 now, you`re considered fat. Back when we were kids, 12 was small and that was kind of the smallest I ever was.

So, clearly, I`m never going to be skinny, but I`m going to be at least at a healthier weight. And I have always been funny all my life. So, let`s pray I don`t lose my funny gene. That`s the only one I can`t afford to, because who`s paying for these surgeries? Not him.


PINSKY: And let me remind people of one other thing that while women with other women seem to be very focused on stick thin, research consistently shows that men like curves. Men like a little bit of something here and there. Some more or less, but always something. So, this stick thin thing, you`re right, Lisa, is a relatively new thing.

It is not necessarily the healthiest. It is not necessarily what women -- what men want. And by the way, I understand, Lisa, your birthday is coming this up week. I want to say happy birthday to you, and congratulations to this.

LAMPANELLI: Thank you.

PINSKY: And it was a real pleasure to meet Jimmy. Thanks for bring him along. And of course, thank you, Lisa.

CANNIZZARO: Thank you, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Look for show on Broadway in the fall.

And next up, I`m going to take calls about anything you have on your mind after the break.


PINSKY: A reminder now that we`re taking your calls live at 855-373- 7395. And let`s get back to those phones. This is Zach in Pennsylvania -- Zach.



ZACH: Real quickly, I just want to tell you why I loved your last book "The Mirror Effect."

PINSKY: Thank you.

ZACH: That was fascinating.

PINSKY: Thank you.

ZACH: Anyway, for struggling couples in which neither partner shows signs of borderline personality disorder --


ZACH: What if any promise do you see in the nasal administration of Oxytocin as a foot in the door?

PINSKY: Yes. Fascinating question. What Zach is talking about -- OK. First, he framed it as there`s no serious personality disorders in either of the partners, and there are people that are getting involved in a relationship and what can you do to increase the bonding that people are feeling? And what he`s referring to is Oxytocin, which is a hormone secreted by your pituitary gland.

And this search was really done originally on prairie voles, varmints. And in prairie voles, when you increase their Oxytocin levels, they bond up. I mean, it`s dramatic. Humans have a certain response to Oxytocin, women more so than men. Testosterone suppresses the Oxytocin response, and it is sort of called the love hormone and the bonding hormone.

It`s something that`s released in large quantities or concentrations. When women are breastfeeding, it has that bonding feeling. So, to answer your question in the briefest way possible, we don`t know. We think it might do something, but humans are much more complicated than prairie voles. And I think, unfortunately, a little too much is being made of Oxytocin.

It`s important, but there`s so much else to human interconnectedness and why we pick certain partners and the fitedness that we have and the love maps we create, much more complicated than a mole -- a vole, rather, which are kind of like moles. They`re kind of like, you know, underground gophers. That`s what they`re like.

So, good question. Don`t know if we can answer it. People are doing active research on that, however.

Next up, I have Brooke. Brooke, what`s up? Oklahoma.


PINSKY: Hi, Brooke.

BROOKE: I have always been in romantic relationships with men, but I do have sexual attraction to females.

PINSKY: How old are you?

BROOKE: I`m 33.

PINSKY: Twenty-three?

BROOKE: Thirty-three.

PINSKY: Thirty-three. All right. So, you`ve sort of -- OK, and what`s the question?

BROOKE: My question is I`m very attractive to the males that I`ve been in relationships with and married, but when it comes time for, like, during sex and having an orgasm, I have to, 95 percent of the time, concentrate on and like focus on envisioning being with a woman.

PINSKY: OK. Now, that`s not an uncommon thing.


PINSKY: You gave me a few little hints there, sort of moved past them rather quickly, but let me just say, that kind of a fantasy very common. Let`s face it. Women are just more appealing. They just are. And women find them more appealing, too. They`re much more of a sexual object for all of us, men and women.

So, many women will fantasize that way, but that has not necessarily anything to do with their sexual orientation. In your case, it does. Now, you let something slip there. You said the men I have married. How many marriages have you had?

BROOKE: Three.

PINSKY: Three marriages? So, we`re looking at somebody who`s got issues with relationships, chaos in relationships already.

BROOKE: Right.

PINSKY: Now, did you some chaos you grew up with? Some nasty stuff in your family of origin?


PINSKY: What happened? What happened?

BROOKE: Well, I -- you know, my parents were both married multiple times.

PINSKY: OK. So, your model for a stable relationship wasn`t there. Were you abused in some fashion? I`m picking up on something there. What was that?

BROOKE: No. No. There`s a lot of addiction in my family, but no like sexual abuse.

PINSKY: OK. So, sometimes -- those people when they were intoxicated, were they kind of scary to be around?

BROOKE: No. Actually, I didn`t really see much of that.


BROOKE: They hid it very well.

PINSKY: So, the big thing was no stable relationships and no ability to form stable sustained intimacies across time. And that`s a big problem these days. People don`t have a model for that. And look, Brooke, I don`t know what your question is exactly.

I mean, is it -- you know, whatever you`re into, cool, but your going to want to find a stable relationship with somebody, because that is really what enhances human flourishing, health. It`s how we find happiness. These relationships that you move through and out of, people tend to be not very happy when they do that.

You know, when people come to the end of life and they`re trying to understand what made life meaningful, they will nearly always find the important relationships are what gave life its meaning. So, I urge you to really work on that, maybe consider some treatment if you need it. We`re going to get some more questions after the break at 855-373-7395. Back after this.


PINSKY: And welcome back. I want to thank you guys for these great calls tonight. we are going off now to Tracy in Kansas -- Tracy.

TRACY, KANSAS: Hi. My son had a spinal fusion surgery in March (INAUDIBLE).

PINSKY: Wow! What happened to him?

TRACY: Well, when he was like 14 years old (ph), he was diagnosed with neuroblastoma, and they radiated a spine, so he had radiation --

PINSKY: But thank God he`s -- neuroblastoma is a big deal. Thank God he`s alive. Good. OK. So, now --

TRACY: Yes. God is good.

PINSKY: His spine degenerated from the radiation. They fused it. And what`s the question now?

TRACY: Well, he just really likes the Lortab, and the doctor said he should be starting to wean off. It`s been four months.


TRACY: But he still tells me he`s in a lot of pain. And I don`t know -- somebody told me once that he`s dependent but not addicted. I don`t want him to become addicted.

PINSKY: That`s right. There are two different things. Dependency means you need more to get the same affect, and you have withdrawal when it stops. Addiction is when you stop, you can`t stay stop. You keep going back. How old is he?

TRACY: He just turned 20.

PINSKY: OK. One of the things that sometimes go unnoticed is when kids are in their young childhood or middle childhood or teen years, they have an orthopedic surgery, surgery of some type, they get on these medicines for a while, then get off them. People don`t recognize they triggered addiction.

These kids that get into pot, and alcohol and other things during their teen years when the real problem was triggered from the pharmaceutical drugs earlier on. In this case, the big question to ask yourself, Tracy, is there a family history of addiction?

TRACY: Not that I -- well, grandparents count?

PINSKY: Well, they do, but it doesn`t necessarily mean it comes through to him, but that`s something to think about if there`s alcoholism. Alcoholism is the prime illness we`re talking about here. And look, here`s the deal. If they have triggered an addiction, make sure you get that treated. He`ll have a lot of difficulty getting off these drugs or staying off them.

The other thing is there`s a syndrome called hyperalgesia that a lot of people ignore these days, but this is very common, particularly in people who are predisposed to addiction, which is a syndrome in which the pain medication actually caused an intensification of the pain. Now, when he gets off the pain meds, he`s going to have a lot more pain, but about a week or two later, it will get substantially better off of the opiates.

So, I`m with you, Tracy. I share your concern. Get him off those drugs and find alternative means to handle his pain. Next up, Gigi, very quickly in Ohio. Gigi, I got about a minute here. What`s up?

GIGI, OHIO: I`ve been on Xanax since 2008 in the sudden death of my daughter, two milligrams a day, got a new doctor, wrote --

PINSKY: Go ahead. Did we lose you? We`re losing Gigi? Oh, Gigi. I`m so sorry. But let me just say, I think she was going to ask about getting off Xanax abruptly. You have to be very, very careful with that. These short acting benzodiazepine medications, which is sort of the valium class, you stop them abruptly, you can have seizure, they can be very dangerous.

Make sure a doctor either tapers you off or knows how to switch you to, you know, another substance to get you off them.

Diane, very quickly. Diane, you`re in California. I`ve got just a few seconds. What do you got?


PINSKY: Diane.

DIANE: I`m wondering if you`ve ever treated anyone who`s recovering from being sexually abused by their doctor.

PINSKY: I have heard of people like that usually, I would -- I`ve never treated anybody who was only sexually abused by a physician. I`ve treated people who were sexually abused in their childhood and then were subsequently sexually abused by a physician. Was that the case with you?


PINSKY: Yes. Listen, it`s all the childhood sexual abuse syndrome, whether or not there was subsequent victimization, it`s sort of part of the syndrome. Get treatment for the sexual abuse. That`s what`s important here. You don`t have to suffer with this. It affects all aspects of your relationships. Please get care for that, an expert, somebody who has treatment, experience treating sexual traumas in childhood.

Thank you all for watching. And of course, I want to thank my guests this evening. This was very interesting. Thank you to Lisa. Thank you to Pauline, of course, as well. And thank you guys for watching and calling. I will see you next time. And Nancy Grace begins right now.