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Paterno`s Legacy

Aired July 17, 2012 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.

More fallout in the Penn State child sex abuse scandal. I`m speaking to students and alums about the latest push to scrub Joe Paterno`s image from school traditions.

Then, this woman has the -- yes, the largest in the world. They are debilitating but she will not get a reduction surgery. She is with me live explaining why.

And later, fired by Diddy, fired by the Donald, Aubrey O`Day is with us here, taking your calls, 855-DRDREW5.

So, let`s get started.


PINSKY: Thank you for joining us this evening.

I know you have been watching carefully as the story unfolds about the two young girls missing. And I`m so fearful that that story is going to connect to the story on the Penn State campus that we are following, where emotions continue to run high.

What I`m saying is the possibility that a perpetrator is loose. And in this country today, this unfortunately is something that is reaching ridiculous proportions. So as I said, emotions continue to run high on the Penn State campus.

Is Joe Paterno`s legacy in ruins? A student group says it is changing the name of Paternoville, the campus site set up outside Beaver Stadium before home games.

Reaction on the group`s Facebook page was swift and scathing. Here are some of the comments. "Joe doesn`t deserve any of this crap, shameful, cowardly and knee-jerk." "Annoying and pathetic, way to turn your back and join the bandwagon. What kind of students are you?"

These are what students are saying to other students about the students that are trying to raise -- well, I don`t know. This is very confusing.

Joining me, attorney and Penn State alum Brian Claypool. By Skype, I have Catherine Janisko, a current Penn State student, and Jeff Lowe, V.P. of Paternoville, now called Nittanyville.

Brian, what`s this all about? How do you make sense of this?

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, PENN STATE ALUM: Dr. Drew, the Penn State tsunami didn`t begin in 2001. From what I`ve learned today, it began in 1998. There is a mountain of evidence now, Dr. Drew, that clearly shows that Sandusky should have been prosecuted in 1998.

PINSKY: Was it Paterno that covered for him?

CLAYPOOL: Paterno not only covered, he actually wrote an e-mail to Gary Schultz and say, is this taken care of yet? He wanted to push it under the carpet. We had two boys in 1998, two boys in 1998 that reported Sandusky in the shower with them.


CLAYPOOL: And actually, I don`t know if a lot of folks know this, but there was actually an audiotape of Sandusky basically saying in the audio, "Yes, I made an inappropriate touching of these kids." He says, "Oh, God, I wish I was dead right now."

The campus police at Penn State took this to the D.A. And the D.A. decides, in a rush, we`re not going to do anything about it.

PINSKY: Is the D.A. is going to be part of the shakedown?

CLAYPOOL: Absolutely. Not even talking as a lawyer right now. I`m talking just as a father of a 7-year-old. I`m talking as a Penn State alum and a human being.

The D.A.`s office in Centre County needs to be prosecuted. They have no excuse for not prosecuting Sandusky in 1998.

PINSKY: That`s a big deal. I mean, that has not been in a lot of the discussions I have seen yet. Holding those guys accountable is part of the authority structure that allowed this to go on for years so other kids were victimized.

CLAYPOOL: That`s the whole point here because I personally believe that there`s a grand conspiracy and it began in 1998. And that the officials at Penn State, including Paterno, exerted undue influence on the district attorney`s office to convince him to not prosecute Sandusky.

PINSKY: Those are the four key players seeing on the screen now.

Jeff Lowe, I want to go out to you -- why are the students reacting so negatively to your call to change the name to Nittanyville from Paternoville? Why isn`t there more of a consensus on campus?

JEFF LOWE, V.P. OF "NITTANYVILLE": You know, it`s something that I they have you have seen, you have covered this now since November. And I think it goes beyond students.

I want to make this clear that a lot of people reaching out to us through Facebook, through e-mail, they are alumni. And I think a lot of students, in a sense, understand why we made it. Alumni don`t. And they`re defending Paterno in a way they don`t read into what we did.

We talked to Jay Paterno about this and he understood our reasoning doing this, which was taking the attention off of us so we cannot only focus our main goal, which is to be there for football, so we can sit there and do our part in raising child sex abuse awareness without having to worry about organizations not dealing with us because Paterno`s name was on it and feeling uneasy about, you know, doing that type of work with us.

So it`s -- as a whole, it is still a tough thing for them to accept, that Joe was being involved with this and they are not really happy. They think we are traitors.

PINSKY: OK. Now, Catherine, you kept us afield of what`s going on on the ground there with the student body. And I`ve got the feeling from you in the past that there was sort of a consensus growing they needed to be -- the victims need to be prioritized, victim awareness and empowerment was really a big feature of campus life.

Yet, as I have begun to cover this story in the last couple of days, I have had a tremendous, a tsunami backlash of hate e-mails and Twitters and Facebook sort of postings. So what is going on, on campus?

CATHERINE JANISKO, PENN STATE STUDENT: You know what I have to agree with what Jeff is saying. Paternoville is doing what they need to do to take the necessary steps to promote child -- to promote the awareness of child abuse, and that`s what they have to do.

And he`s right. These are a lot of -- these are alumni who are responding to these things. And, you know, we talk about taking down the statue and scrubbing Joe Paterno`s name of off trophies that once existed, that he was awarded with, you know, does that really make a difference, scrubbing a name off of a material item? Is that really going to protect children in the future at Penn State?

I don`t think so. I really don`t.

PINSKY: Let`s take a call.

Bill in New York. Bill, you had a comment for us?

BILL, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Yes, just wondering how -- the university didn`t know about nothing going on. You know, come on. There`s a chain of command and everybody out there in Penn State knows what`s going on. Come on.

PINSKY: I think, Brian this is your point.

CLAYPOOL: Bill, you are exactly right. I will tell that you the top four people at Penn State knew what was going on, including Paterno, back in 1998. I looked at the mountain of evidence presented to the D.A. in 1998 and there`s categorically no excuse for that D.A. to not have prosecuted Sandusky then. Had he done so, then eight other boys would not have been abused and --

PINSKY: That we know of.

CLAYPOOL: Right. There could be a lot more.

PINSKY: There could be others, yes.

CLAYPOOL: There could be a lot more. Now we have got some kids back from the `70s.

PINSKY: That`s what I`m hearing.


And one more thing I wanted to note -- Bill, you should know this -- a lot of people don`t know this, but the lead investigator from the Penn State campus police, when he got all the information regarding the 1998 investigation, he was so concerned about making sure that something was done about it, he bypassed, taking it to Penn State administration. He took it directly to the district attorney`s office.

What does that tell you? He might have had another experience before that.

PINSKY: Where they have brushed it under the carpet?

CLAYPOOL: Exactly.

PINSKY: That is very interesting.

CLAYPOOL: He bypassed the administration.

PINSKY: Bill, thanks for that call.

Quickly now, Margaret in Pennsylvania. Margaret, you wanted a question or comment yourself?

MARGARET, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Yes. Is it JoePa`s fault that he wasn`t prosecuted? Absolutely not. Are you going to wipe his name off all the buildings at Penn State? Absolutely not. I just -- I just totally disagree with this.

PINSKY: I think that`s what -- Catherine, isn`t that what you were saying basically is that there`s many other players here and his name for things he -- go ahead tell us, Catherine.

JANISKO: You know, if Penn State is really going to take the necessary effort to move forward and to make it a better community and an environment for children in the future, I don`t think taking a name off of a material item or a building or removing a statue of Joe Paterno is going to do anything at all. Of course, people may walk by his statue and say, oh, that`s disgusting.

How is that, you know, moving the effort to protect children in the future? It`s really not. It`s a material thing.

PINSKY: All right, guys, thank you very much. Thank you to Jeff, Catherine, of course, Brian, as always. Thank you.

Next up, we are again taking a big turn to an entirely different topic, to a woman who holds -- well, a "Guinness Book of World Records" -- she holds -- there she is now. I`ll let you use your imagination about what she holds that record for.

And then later, reality star Aubrey O`Day was accused of having a mental break down because she had service dogs on a plane with her. There they are with her. In fact, the dogs, too.

I`m going to be with her. We`ll talk to her, coming up. Stay with us.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first met Annie, I was thinking, wow, those breasts are really big.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems people are always looking at her and pointing and gawking at her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s natural. That`s real.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s just beyond the beyond.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just bring it back.

HAWKINS-TURNER: Always imitated but never duplicated, just me. I never considered having breast reduction.


PINSKY: That is our next guest, Annie Hawkins Turner, who was profiled on TLC`s "Strange Sex" which airs Sundays at 10 p.m.

Annie says she has had a tough time her whole life, and ridiculed because of this body characteristic she has. It is called gigantomastia, bra size 102ZZZ. Each breast weights around 86 pounds and they grow constantly.

Annie, now, listen, people, I want to take this seriously, because you are an example of somebody who has to live with a medical condition that affects your body. Yet people mistreat you because of it, is that right?

HAWKINS-TURNER: True, every day of my life, I get up and get ready to leave my house, I don`t know what my day is going to be like. I don`t know who`s going to attack me or what`s going to happen. But I know once I leave out of my comfort zone, my house, I know that people are going to point and make fun of me and that`s been all of my life.

PINSKY: You know, I have been dealing with adolescent women most of my career, younger girls. And girls that develop quickly get shunned from other women.

Do you have to -- have you had to deal with that since you were young? Do you still deal with that kind of thing now?

HAWKINS-TURNER: I still deal with it today. Women are some of the worst people in the world. You know, I sometime go and I read things that people say about me on the internet. And it`s mostly women that are attacking me and look like they will have some kind of sympathy for me, not that I`m looking for pity.

But I`m just saying, you know, a woman, you know? But men, they stare and point and stuff. But women are some of the worst women in the world. They will laugh at you. They will make fun of you.

PINSKY: I can imagine, too, your back and neck must give you trouble. You --

HAWKINS-TURNER: No, actually not.

PINSKY: That`s unbelievable.

HAWKINS-TURNER: No. No. But actually, I -- I grew up 9 years old, I stated growing breast he is and so my back grew with me. I have large back muscles that holds me up.

PINSKY: Then I worry that you could get a lung disorder from that weight across the chest. Does anybody worried that you would develop a restrictive lung disease? Is that ever been discussed or sleep apnea, again from the weight?

HAWKINS-TURNER: No. No. I do suffer from sleep apnea, yes.

PINSKY: Yes, I would imagine.

Take a quick call. Samantha in Ohio, you had a comment or question?

SAMANTHA, CALLER FROM OHIO: Yes. I am a large-breasted woman. It runs in my family. And I have always wanted reduction. And I do not know how she cannot want reduction done.

PINSKY: Well, Samantha, let say something about the reduction. I`m going to bring a plastic surgeon in here in a couple of minutes, ask a couple of questions. But my understanding of gigantomastia which is what my guest has, is that sometimes after the reduction, things grow back.

Has anybody mentioned that to you? No?

My guest, to Annie?

HAWKINS-TURNER: Oh, me? Me? I`ve never thought about it. And if you notice, if you look at me very closely and you see I`m still large- chest and my boobs even look bigger, I have lost 20 pounds since that taping of the "Strange Sex" and my breast is still standing.

When I lose weight, my body part gets small but my top stays big. I have lost 20 pounds since we taped that show.

PINSKY: Let`s go to Joe in Kansas -- Joe. Joe, are you there?

JOE, CALLER FROM KANSAS: Ever find anyone to make her some bras?

PINSKY: How do you find that, Joe? Is that -- I mean, Annie, is that something difficult?

HAWKINS-TURNER: It`s very difficult. To be honest with you, Dr. Drew, I made a wish to your show you that would help me find somebody to make a bra. And I guess when I write to people or call people and I tell them the size of my breasts, they actually think I`m joking and I`m very seriously. I haven`t found anyone to make me a bra yet.

PINSKY: I`m a little confused. I mean, they what, they just don`t believe you, aren`t willing to try?

HAWKINS-TURNER: They don`t believe me. They just don`t believe me. When I do find people that design me a bra, they can`t find a material that will hold me up, because when I get a new bra and I wear it for like 30 minutes, my girls sit in my laps after 30 minutes. There`s not enough strong support.

PINSKY: What is the weight -- how much do they each weigh?

HAWKINS-TURNER: They weigh about 44.8 a piece.

PINSKY: So, again, I could imagine getting out of bed, the things we take for granted could be difficult.

HAWKINS-TURNER: But I`ve had -- people have to understand I have had this all my life, so I adapted to it. It is like dealing with people every day. I adapt to it.

I had therapy to teach me how to get up out of the bed properly so I won`t hurt myself. When I walk down the step, I have to look over because I can`t see past my breasts.

PINSKY: Wow. Quickly, Kathy in Texas. Kathy, one quick comment here?

KATHY, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, yes, Dr. Drew. I was just wondering, the medical standpoint, as far as the pro versus con, the risk of breast cancer and any other medical conditions that this particular medical condition can produce?

PINSKY: Yes, a great question. I want you to sit tight. I`ve got some thoughts about that I brought up some of this stuff already with Annie but I have also got a plastic surgeon coming in to help me with that issue. Hang in. We`ll answer that question after the break.

We`re also bringing in Annie`s sister, who is fed up with people staring and making fun of her. Give us a call, 855-DRDREW5.

And as I said, later, reality star Aubrey O`Day addresses tabloid reports -- yes, those are real dogs there. Those were the service dogs everyone read about. Allegedly, there was a tabloid report -- well, we`ll talk about it when she comes in.

Stay with us.


PINSKY: We`re talking with Annie Hawkins-Turner who has the largest natural breasts in the world, nearly 86 pounds, and they are still growing.

Joining us is Bernadine Hawkins, Annie`s sister and Dr. John Diaz, a Beverly Hills plastic surgeon.

And, Dr. Diaz, you and I have been discussing off the air that Annie has something called gigantomastia or macromastia, same thing, large breasts.

Will they ever stop growing, large breasts?

DR. JOHN DIAZ, PLASTIC SURGEON: Usually, at this age, when a woman is fully adult, developed, and has past puberty, unlikely to continue growing, but it can grow.

PINKSY: So, what is the problem with reduction? A younger woman would be they would just come back?

DIAZ: Yes, that`s right. And we usually recommend that the woman wait until she is completely developed and has completely finished puberty before we try to operate.

PINSKY: Now, before the break, we had a phone call that dropped off the line. She was asking if there was any risk of breast cancer.

DIAZ: There is some evidence. It`s not proven. But, you know, given the larger volume, there is a higher chance that some of the cells can turn cancerous.

PINSKY: I wonder if it is harder to screen, larger tissue volume.

DIAZ: Absolutely.

PINSKY: And then, finally, I worry about restrictive lung disease, just weight on the chest, and sleep apnea, pulmonary problems. From the medical standpoint, that`s what I think she`d get.

DIAZ: I was very surprised when she said she didn`t have any of the symptoms because a lot of patients with breasts this size will. But I`m even more shocked that she doesn`t have severe back and neck problems.

PINSKY: She says she has grown up with it.

And I`ll tell you what, Annie? You have a very good attitude about all this. And I guess you could be a lesson to other young women out there about, you know, maintaining a positive attitude, picking your head up high and walking out in the world.

But still, Bernadine, I understand you`re sick and tired of people pointing and laughing?

BERNADINE HAWKINS, ANNIE`S SISTER: Yes. I get upset. You know, we be out somewhere and people will start pointing and start giggling and laughing and whispering. So yes, it makes me mad. I get very upset.

And just, you know, being protective and, you know, she`s not a freak show. I mean, she was born this way.

PINSKY: And, Bernadine --

HAWKINS: Yes, I do. I get very upset.

PINSKY: Have you been protecting your sister since junior high school?

HAWKINS: No more so she protects me.

PINSKY: Got it. Fair enough.

Let`s take a quick call. Barbie in Idaho -- Barbie.

BARBIE, CALLER FROM IDAHO: Yes. (INAUDIBLE) I have 50DDs and I found that I have popped balloons. I have copied documents I didn`t want to copy. I accidentally hit elevator buttons. Do you have any good stories?

HAWKINS-TURNER: I have zipped up my breasts with my blue jeans. I do have marks from my zipper. I do blow my horn every time I get into my car.

But let`s go back to the mammogram, guys. I take yearly mammograms, takes 18 films to do it.


HAWKINS-TURNER: And two hours to do it. I have burned out several machines, but I do get mammogramed yearly and I`m coming up just perfect.

You know, this is just a blessing for me. When they did my mammogram about a couple of months ago, they said they have never seen muscles that large in a breast. And so, I`m just blessed that, like I say, I started growing at the age of 9 years old. I`ve been growing ever since. I`m still growing to this day, at least that`s what my boyfriend says.

PINSKY: Annie, you have got a great attitude.

I want to quickly talk about the medical part of this with Dr. Diaz. That is the fact that this is one of the more common procedures done these days, and happiest patients you guys work with are breast reduction patients.

DIAZ: Absolutely, because they are suffering from pain, if we can alleviate that pain, you can imagine how happy they are and what a great improvement in the quality of life they get.

PINSKY: Now, would you urge Annie? Even with that great attitude and great outlook, and she`s comfortable with the way she is, would you be pushing her to do it?

DIAZ: It`s shocking as a plastic surgeon to see someone with this size breast who doesn`t want the surgery. Usually, I get patients who have much smaller breasts who are suffering from pain and so it`s really rare to have someone with this size breast not wanting surgery.

PINSKY: Well, ladies, thank you for joining us. Annie I hope all that be an inspiration to other women who you know, worry about how people look at them and have difficulty maintaining confidence. You are an inspiration.

And, Bernie, keep looking after her.

HAWKINS: I will. Thank you.


PINSKY: All right, guys.

Dr. Diaz, of course, thanks for joining us as always. I appreciate your input.

You can see "Strange Sex" every Sunday night at 10 p.m. on TLC.

Next, reality star, Aubrey O`Day. You can call her now, 855 -- you can call and talk to her dog there the Pomeranian. OK. The number is 855- DRDREW5. Give us a call.


PINSKY: Oh, excuse me. Aubrey O`Day has been a reality star, best- selling singer around recently, she made quite a splash on "Celebrity Apprentice." She says she used to be, hmm -- used to be in the headlines but shocked to see a picture of herself on the Internet and accused her of having an emotional disorder because of these guys?


PINSKY: Just watch this. Watch this.


PINSKY (voice-over): Aubrey O`Day went from unknown to unbelievably successful. MTV`s "Making the Band" made her career. She became Danity Kane`s most recognizable member as they shot to the top of the charts. But then Aubrey fell out of favor with star maker, Sean Combs. She got fired by Diddy on MTV`s "Making the Band."


PINSKY: Fired by the Donald on NBC`s "Celebrity Apprentice" but hired onto her own reality show on Oxygen. Aubrey`s brand of celebrity is in a class by itself. Even her dogs ride first class when she travels. Regardless of what Aubrey is working on, she attracts paparazzi and rumors.

She is here with me live, setting the record straight.


PINSKY: All right. Aubrey, here we go. This is it. So, these are the service dogs.


PINSKY: And let`s -- there we go. This is ginger, I understand, right?

O`DAY: And she is your baby, too. Over the years --

PINSKY: I met her before. Yes.

O`DAY: She`s fallen in love with you. She loves hearing you sing opera.

PINSKY: Thank you for that.


PINSKY: There she is. That`s a pretty cute dog, I got to say.

O`DAY: Pretty amazing, right? And then my other dog is a shelter dog.

PINSKY: Let`s set the record straight about this mental health stuff.

O`DAY: Basically what happened is when we got on the plane, I was working with Virgin America doing gay pride in San Francisco, which was an amazing experience, and the dogs came. They always do the float every year. And we were --

PINSKY: What color were they?

O`DAY: They were rainbow for gay pride.

PINSKY: OK. Perfect. Perfect.

O`DAY: And you know, we were sitting in the first row and what that means is that you can`t have any bags during takeoff. So, when you have dogs in their carriers, you have to take them out, hold them on your lap for takeoff.

PINSKY: Got it.

O`DAY: And then you put them back in after the flight.

PINSKY: There is the picture right there.

O`DAY: So, that`s what happened. And that picture ended up being an internet sensation, which goes to show you how bored everyone is in America right now.

PINSKY: Well, I understand that`s something you`ve been talking about lately is the nature of fame and celebrity, and how it`s changed. Tell me about that.

O`DAY: You know, with everything that you do in life, there are gifts and there are costs, versus the costs that will come with them. And I don`t think that anyone has some amazing life where their dogs fly first class and everything is just beautiful and amazing. I mean, there are struggles and there are costs to everything and probably more so in my career, I`ve had more costs.

But the gift I`ve endured is being able to touch people and being able to have my voice heard on large scales and I love that because if you have something powerful and you understand your voice and you understand your mind, you can touch a lot of people with that and that, for me, I found in my journey so far in life has been what I`m here to do.

I`m almost a mechanism of a message. I haven`t necessarily been fulfilled myself. I haven`t gotten to a place --

PINSKY: Is that because of your personal life? I mean, relationships are really where people find deep meaning.

O`DAY: You know, listen, in reality TV shows, you`re subjected to becoming an editor`s paycheck.


O`DAY: So, you know, it`s a beautiful disaster in the sense that you want to come on and portray yourself a certain way, and the editor will portray you in the way that creates the most amount of revenue for him and his employers.

PINSKY: And there`s some manipulation by producers on the show.

O`DAY: Of course. Across the board. Listen, there has been a huge disparity between what I`ve been talked into coming into a show versus what has been chopped and screwed and always put on the edit --

PINSKY: Right.

O`DAY: -- for the public to see.


O`DAY: That`s something that I`ve struggled with a lot. And I wonder, you know, how sick am I to put myself into it? How sick are the people who are doing it. But here`s the bigger question, how sicker the people that are watching it, making it their daily lives and continuing it to become, you know, pop culture?

PINSKY: Well, that`s something I`ve always said. If we wouldn`t consume it, people wouldn`t produce that stuff.

O`DAY: Of course. Supply and demand. Basic economics.

PINSKY: let`s take a quick calls. This is Marcinia I think the name is. Marcinia in Texas.

O`DAY: Hi, Marcini.

MARCINIS, TEXAS: Hey, it`s Marcenis.

PINSKY: Marcenis. OK. Here we go.


O`DAY: Hello.


MARCINIS: How are you?

O`DAY: I`m amazing. How are you? Doesn`t ginger look fabulous?

MARCINIS: She is always fabulous. She`s like your biggest competition right now.

O`DAY: I know. You know, with all this press my dogs get, I should turn it into something meaningful.

PINSKY: Oh, my God. This is funny. OK. What do you got?

MARCINIS: You worked your butt off throughout the entire duration of "Making the Band." And I think most people can agree whether or not they want to. That was the platform you were given that you created a name for yourself and you have utilized your voice to speak up for many difficulties (ph), glisten.

I`ve seen your video on YouTube, and it gets better. The no-hate campaign, all the other charities that you worked for on "Celebrity Apprentice," yet, people still, somehow, target you. And I want to know, do you think it`s because they truly misunderstand you or a society that we live in that is just afraid of a strong woman with power?

PINSKY: Do you think people target you?

O`DAY: I think all of the above.

PINSKY: People target you.

O`DAY: I think so. And you know what, we all target people. I`m not, you know, perfect. I`m guilty of it, too. But it`s interesting because when I talk about someone, I`ll stop myself and two seconds later, I`ll be like, you know what, I`m just jealous of them that`s why I just said that.

And it`s a self-recognition and it`s the ability to understand where your thoughts are coming from and how to control them. And we`re just not taught that in society anymore. We`re taught to take a Xanax.


PINSKY: Well, the whole pill thing. You`re going to be here for two seconds, and the pill thing is --

O`DAY: You know, we could go on for hours.

PINSKY: I know. You and I have chatted a lot. But the pill thing is, obviously, my deal. I mean, the overutilization of medication and pills, and particularly, addictive pills is -- and that`s how my patients die (INAUDIBLE). It`s a serious, serious problem. Did you ever have a problem with pills?

O`DAY: And so you know, I`ve been prescribed anything. When I walk into a doctor and a doctor knows me, you know, not every doctor holds the highest standard and walks, you know, moral grounds.

PINSKY: Would you just know the right things to say?

O`DAY: Absolutely not. I wouldn`t know that. My job is to sing and dance, not to manipulate doctors.


O`DAY: But I will say that I can have a headache or I can be feeling uneasy, and immediately I`m depressed or immediately I need Xanax or I need Adderall or I need all these things according to doctors.

And what I`ve learned is what I really needed is therapy and what I really needed is education in regards to how to control my thoughts and how to be the person that`s in charge of my body instead of allowing medicine or doctors or any other superficial aspect of society to become more important than my mind.

PINSKY: Good for you.

O`DAY: And listen, it`s been a difficult road. And I`ve definitely been prescribed everything under the sun and been told a million different things about, you know -- I carry my dogs on an airplane, it gets turned into this. And now, I`m the one with crazy mental issues.

PINSKY: Right.

O`DAY: But, you know, everyone has mental issues, and everybody is not perfect, and everyone makes mistakes. And the point of life is to learn from them and to not make them again. And if you make them again to forgive yourself but continue to try harder. And we`re not taught that. It goes back to basic education.

You know, we`re not putting money into schools. And when teachers aren`t feeling full so filled and gratified, you have an entire culture of people that are not being educated properly. They are not being taught how to handle their minds and their emotions and their thoughts, and they are turning to unhealthy mechanisms that society provides, like we said, supply and demand.


O`DAY: There is an unhealthy supply of a lot of things today, but what`s more concerning is the demand and why it exists, because there will always be a supply for demand.

PINSKY: So, it`s the emptiness we are feeling and the lack of the spiritual --

O`DAY: Absolutely. And pills won`t fix that.

PINSKY: Pills will not fix it. More of Aubrey O`Day. I`m going to get -- try to get to more of your calls, more with Ginger. Get a picture of Ginger. Straight ahead, 1-855-DrDrew5. We`ll be right back.


PINSKY: Welcome back. Singer and reality TV star, Aubrey O`Day is here along with Ginger. This is Ginger, right?

O`DAY: Ging, come on, perk up. You`re on TV.


PINSKY: Ginger is just the nicest dog I think I`ve ever met. Get to more of your calls in just a second. So, Aubrey, we`ve known each other a little while, but I heard something about you the other day I did not know is that you lost faith in marriage?

O`DAY: Yes, I don`t believe in marriage.

PINSKY: I have a great marriage. It`s really been a good thing.

O`DAY: You are the minority and you`re not the representation among society nowadays. And I think that marriage --

PINSKY: But you lost faith in it. I don`t think --

O`DAY: I have.


O`DAY: I have --

PINSKY: That`s sad.

O`DAY: You know both. I think that when you put -- when you put such a -- especially I`m noticing all of my friends that are get into their 30s, they feel the pressure of their bodies, the genetics --

PINSKY: They want to reproduce.

O`DAY: -- the hormones. They want to reproduce.


O`DAY: They feel pressure that you know, a lot of problematic things that can occur if you have children after 35. And I think that everyone is starting to feel the pressure of needing to settle down and be in some type of relationship. And I think that that`s an unhealthy drive to push yourself into loving someone and wanting to spend the rest of your life with them.

Let alone, marriage is a consumer-based industry now. I mean, it`s what sells tabloids. It`s what, you know, gives you instant fame. It`s what everyone -- you know, it`s like Miley Cyrus is how old and she`s getting married? Where is that marriage going to be in 15 years? Marriage is become a ten-minute thing nowadays amongst some of our --

PINSKY: Become disposable. Do you have a relationship now?

O`DAY: I don`t. You know, I`m --

PINSKY: Just you and Ginger and Mary Ann?

O`DAY: Yes. I stick with the things that, you know, I know are good for me and healthy for me. And I think as I`ve gotten older, I`m less interested in dating and more interested in surrounding myself with people that inspire me and make me a better person.

PINSKY: How about work? What`s ahead?

O`DAY: Well, I`m releasing my new music video for my new single "Wrecking Ball," which you can purchase on iTunes right now. I have another single coming up right after that. And, you know, I`m going in and out of potentially going back on television and doing some type of daytime talk show or something along those lines.

PINSKY: Take a couple calls. Kristen in Kentucky -- Kristen.


PINSKY: Kristen, what do you got?

O`DAY: Hi, Kristen.


PINSKY: Go right ahead. You`re live on the air. Here we go.

KRISTEN: OK. Do you have a lot of anxieties when you`re singing and stuff?

O`DAY: I do, you know? But, there`s a certain amount of healthy butterflies and those are what make you actually have a better performance than you normally would.

PINSKY: Were you ever troubled by a lot of anxiety?

O`DAY: I have always been. I`m a bit OCD and I`m a bit -- I`m definitely anxious. It pushes my OCD forward a lot when I get into performing like touch this, do this, and do that, and you`ll have a good show.

PINSKY: So, rituals. You have to do rituals.

O`DAY: And I challenge that thought, because I`m a smart person and I`m not controlled by --

PINSKY: Well, but OCD, though, is not about being smart or dumb.

O`DAY: No, it`s not.

PINSKY: It`s about this part of your brain that fires --

O`DAY: It is.

PINSKY: I`m going to do this or something bad is going to happen.

O`DAY: It is. And something bad does happen, and then, it`s like a self-fulfilling prophecy (ph). Now, then immediately, you think that I definitely am going to touch everything I have to.

PINSKY: Let`s talk to Desmond in Texas -- Desmond.

DESMOND, TEXAS: Hi. I just want to say I`m a big supportive fan for a long time. But, my question is, what is the biggest rumor about you that you want to put to rest?

PINSKY: That`s a great question.

O`DAY: Oh, God! I don`t think we have enough time on this show to go through all of them. I would say, in the very beginning, I got dumb and hot, which I was able to change with "Celebrity Apprentice." I got sleeping with the boss.

PINSKY: You are a dumb and hot person, is that what --

O`DAY: Yes.

PINSKY: You change your appearance a lot at first, too, right?

O`DAY: I have. You know, I think when I first started out, I was called something for such a long period of time that it almost becomes a question that you have within yourself. When something shot out on a website, let`s say that hits five, six million people a day, and you`re perceived as certain way by so many people, you start to wonder and ask yourself, am I any of those things?

I mean, I almost explored all of those avenues. To then come out of it at the end of the day, like I don`t need 20 pounds of weave and my boobs pushed up and to look this way or that way, I don`t need to starve myself and feel the pressure of having to look a certain way to make other people happy.

You pick and choose how to stay healthy and to be proud and just happy in your own skin. And so, yes, I`ve definitely fallen into a lot of those places. I`ve been the girl that sleeps with the bosses to get ahead, that`s been a big one. And then, I found after all of that when I finally showed everyone my intellect on "Celebrity Apprentice," I was the mean, egotistical like full of herself girl. I think -- and now, I`m the mental patient.

PINSKY: Right. That`s the latest one. That`s the one we started out with we`re going to try to set straight (ph).

O`DAY: Right. And it`s interesting because, I wonder, how many more names do I have to be called before people start respecting that I`m not any of those things. That I`m actually just talented and driven and I`m not going anywhere, and your words aren`t going to make me.

PINSKY: Certainly, if your -- you know, Twitter is a pretty nasty place, sometimes. I imagine --

O`DAY: Life is a nasty place, Drew. Twitter is just an example of it.


O`DAY: But there are men like you, sing opera, that are perfect, don`t cheat on their wife.

PINSKY: I don`t cheat on my wife. I`m not perfect. But I`m thinking about cheating with Ginger.


PINSKY: All right. Aubrey, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it. It`s always good to see you. Whatever.

More of your calls, and in her own words, the woman now accusing George Zimmerman of a crime that allegedly happened years ago. We`re going to look into that and any other topic you guys want to get into after the break.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It started when I was six. He is about -- almost two years older than I am. He would reach under the blanket and try to do things and I would try to push him off, but he was bigger and stronger and older. It was in front of everybody. And I don`t know how I didn`t say anything, but I just didn`t know any better.


PINSKY: Now, look, I am very sensitive to this issue. Obviously, molestation, sexual abuse of children is something that I deal with all the time, and I`m very, very attuned to. But, this woman came forward, accused George Zimmerman of molestation many years ago. She now -- anybody can accuse anybody of anything.

I hope she has some witnesses about this, because I -- listen, I don`t want to diminish somebody`s accusations that are really very serious, but the fact is anybody can accuse anybody of anything these days, and people report on it. I`m just not sure it`s responsible to say it definitely happened, even though -- listen, no love lost for me and Zimmermann.

Now, we`ve asked for her to comment, have not heard back. What she alleges will not be admissible in Zimmerman`s trial. What do you think? Roland in California -- Roland.

ROLAND, CALIFORNIA: Hey, Dr. Drew. How are you doing today?

PINSKY: Good. Very good.

ROLAND: Good. You know, I believe that this will still have an immense amount of impact on the Trayvon Martin case, even more so the fact that she said his family is anti-Black. This will still have a definitely positive -- negative effect on Zimmerman.

PINSKY: I think, Roland, if, indeed, there is substance to what she is saying, it`s a big deal. It is a big deal. Both the parents overheard saying racist comments and Zimmerman may have done some inappropriate things. I mean, it`s a massive deal even if it`s not admissible. I agree with you. But, it feels funny to let somebody just say something and say that`s what happened. Don`t you agree?

ROLAND: But you know, I definitely would agree with that, because nowadays, especially through social media --

PINSKY: Right.

ROLAND: -- you know, people just say anything --

PINSKY: That`s right.

ROLAND: So, I agree with you.

PINSKY: OK. Well, we`ll keep watching this story. And I`ll make -- you know, if there is real any evidence, any good evidence that this is substantiated, we will be all over this, I promise you. Sulema in Texas. Sulema, what do you got?

SULEMA, TEXAS: Hi, Dr. Drew. Thank you for having me. My question is my partner or my boyfriend and I were having some relationship issues, and mainly because I felt like he wasn`t paying enough attention to me.

PINSKY: By the way, Sulema, a couple of women may have feel like you do some of the time, let`s just say. It`s a very common complaint, but go ahead.

SULEMA: Well, things started to change. And I started to notice he started doing little things here and there, almost daily, and it started to change that I felt like he was paying attention to me, and like I was very important to him.

PINSKY: That`s great.

SULEMA: So, we`re sitting down one day and he gets a text message and I kind of just, you know, glanced at it and it said how to love her. And It caught my attention and I said what is this about? And he said, well, you know, it`s a therapist that I, you know, I just subscribed to and he is getting reminders every day.

And now, I`m confused. I mean, everything`s going well, but now, I feel like he`s not doing it out of the kindness of his heart. And I don`t know if I`m confused --

PINSKY: Wait, let me go -- I don`t understand what that text message was. What was that?

SULEMA: It said how to love her, and that is a reminder -- gives him little hint --

PINSKY: Oh, I see. I mean, he went -- listen, let`s give this guy some kudos. You mean, he went online, looked up how to be a better partner and then actually gets notifications off the website on what to do, when to do it, that kind of thing?

SULEMA: Right. They send him text messages.

PINSKY: Sulema, I will tell you something, count your blessings. Guys, we are -- we are dolts when it comes to this stuff. It doesn`t come naturally, and we want to make you happy. Here he is following some structure that`s helping him. I say hats off to your partner. I say it`s a good thing. It`s coming from the right place, I promise. Don`t question it see where it goes, OK?

SULEMA: Thank you so much.

PINSKY: All right. You take care. More of your calls after this.


PINSKY: Reminder, we are taking your calls at 855-373-7395. And we`re going back to the phone with Heather in California -- heather.

HEATHER, CALIFORNIA: Hey, Dr. Drew. Thank you for having me on the show.

PINSKY: It`s a pleasure.

HEATHER: My question, I have -- my two daughters are adopted. They`re biological siblings (INAUDIBLE)

PINSKY: Oh, my goodness. Something happened. Let`s go on to the next caller. Wow! There`s nothing like live television. This now is Stacey in Florida -- Stacey.


PINSKY: Hi, Stacey.

STACEY: How are you?


STACEY: I`m calling because I want to know if it`s normal to have jealousy over your husband`s ex-wife and also how can they deal with it? Because I know jealousy is such an ugly trait. I want to get rid of it.

PINSKY: It is ugly and it`s reasonable. I mean, you know that they were married and maybe she`s still lurking around and maybe they`re co- parenting. So, it`s a very common complaint that people have jealousy of that former partner. You know, normally, I look to your -- the partner that you`re with to reassure you. Is he able to reassure you?

STACEY: Oh, yes. I mean, he absolutely loves me. We`ve been together four years. We have a great relationship. We have a son together. What is it -- it`s not jealousy of her so much, it`s jealousy of the time that she was ten years with him prior to us. So, that`s the jealousy, that she occupied such a long time with him. So, how do I get over it?

PINSKY: Wow. That`s interesting. I don`t have a nice, easy way to get over something like that. It`s not occurring to me. It`s literally like there`s a piece of him that you want to own for yourself. I mean, you love him so much that you want to have all of him, including that part of his life where you just weren`t in his life.

I got to tell you, I think it`s something that you have to get over on your own. You say you -- you say it`s ugly. I agree it is an ugly trait and it`s not going to help your relationship. It`s going to eat you away like a resentment, and it`s literally like taking a poison and expecting it to hurt somebody else. You need to get over this.

Heather in California, you`re back. Real quick, you had adoptive kids and what`s the question?

HEATHER: My question is they were both tested positive for cocaine, marijuana, and alcohol at first.


HEATHER: So my question is that when they grow up, how risky is it for them if they want to have a glass of wine, because with addicts, you know, they say you can`t ever try anything, you`re always at risk.

PINSKY: Right.

HEATHER: -- the choice that their body was addicted to it.

PINSKY: Here`s the deal. When one or both parent has alcoholism or addiction, in most cases, the probability of a given child developing that genetic potential is about 50 percent. But genes are not destiny. In other words, if they are raised in an emotionally healthy fashion, they can regulate their emotions, they are educated about the potential risk of that gene being activated.

I would say, you know, educate them very thoroughly. They`re going to experiment when they get older. Be careful. Make sure they understand the risk.

Thank you all for watching. Thank you for calling. "Nancy Grace" begins right now.