CNN CNN


 

Return to Transcripts main page

TALK ASIA

Interview with Frank Gehry

Aired July 22, 2012 - 01:30:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNA COREN, CNN ANCHOR: His designs are unique, eye-catching and, at times, controversial. Still, his unique buildings have put some places on the map.

And with a career spanning more than 40 years, today, he's one of the world's most-renowned architects, even reaching pop culture center for younger generations.

FRANK GEHRY, CANADIAN ARCHITECT, LOS ANGELES: Behold, the new Springfield Concert Hall.

COREN: At the age of 83, he's still hard at work. Today on TALK ASIA, we meet Frank Gehry at the opening his latest creation high above Hong Kong.

Where does he get his inspirations. How does he handle the critics. And what would he still like to accomplish. That's all coming up on TALK ASIA.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Not scared of heights.

GEHRY: A little bit.

COREN: So, tell me, how do you -- look at this building. What do you think.

GEHRY: I like -- the glass columns were a big issue because they were not needed. They weren't functional. They kind of -- and I'm not given to decorating. But I needed them to emphasize the the twisting, the feeling of movement of the building.

This is the structure. And this is the decor.

COREN: The 12 apartments, 12 stories.

GEHRY: Yes, each floor is one apartment. So, it's like doing a house and a layered -- layers of houses. And, so, if you took the plan of that house, if you took the slice out and put it on the ground, it functions as a house work because the rooms look in different directions. And, well, you normally don't get that in an apartment building.

COREN: No.

GEHRY: You usually look in one way or, maybe, get a corner window but you don't get a completely surrounded thing that isn't flat, that, sort of, snakes around. I don't know if "snakes around" is the right word. But -- so, it unfolds to the nature.

COREN: I went for a walk through the apartment beforehand and, as you say, every room has a view. In fact, there's a 360-degree --

GEHRY: But every room is discreet, so you don't see the room next to it. Each room is like its own apartment in a way.

COREN: Yes.

GEHRY: And that's what we receive by this sinuous plan.

COREN: Well, let's -- if you've taken in the view, let's head on inside. The owners of this property wanted one of the world's greatest architects.

GEHRY: They didn't tell me that. I should have known that when I was negotiating my fee.

COREN: Are you happy with the final product.

GEHRY: Oh, God, yes. They've been fastidious. And we had a great relationship which is why I insist on, that I get -- we really get close with our clients and understand what are the issues, so they're not blindsided and I don't force them to do things.

We do it together, kind of, and I love that. That's the best play. Because when you get to the end, there's neutral ownership rather than just my ownership. That's important to me.

COREN: How did this building come to be in your mind, in your imagination.

GEHRY: I didn't want it to stick out like sore thumb. I wanted it to be polite. I wanted the people that were in the apartments to have a very special relationship with the great view and the assets that this site afforded them.

COREN: There aren't too many sights like this left in Hong Kong, so to come across this, what were your initial thoughts.

GEHRY: Well, I wasn't aware that there weren't many sights . I don't know Hong Kong well enough. But I certainly knew about The Peak. Then, when I got here, I came up and wandered around it, learned about it and realized that this was a major place to be building a building.

And the 360 degrees of views and visibility for miles and it came with a lot of responsibility not to screw it up, right.

COREN: I want to talk about your background because it really is quite fascinating. You were born in Toronto. You moved to Los Angeles when you were teenager. I believe you had a very creative family. Your grandmother encouraged you to build cities with scraps of wood.

GEHRY: Yes.

COREN: You spent time with your grandfather in his hardware store. Your parents were artists, you know, they taught you to draw.

GEHRY: Well, first of all, my parents had never gone to finish high school. My father was an urchin that lived in hell's kitchen. He's part of a family of nine. I mean, there were times that were better than worse.

But, mostly, by the time we got to L.A., they had lost whatever they had. And that was a sad time. And both he and I became truck drivers for different companies.

But they -- my mother played violin when she was young. She loved the arts. My father, probably, he had flashes of creativity. He used to do store windows for fruit stores that he worked in and stuff.

So, there was -- in the DNA, there must have been. But it was kind of buried in our lives at the time, the way that -- the circumstance of our lives.

COREN: Because you joined the U.S. Army for several years, as you say, you were a truck driver for a while but --

GEHRY: The U.S. Army joined me. They drafted me.

COREN: So, why Architecture.

GEHRY: I was taking Ceramics at night class because it was one of the few things that was available. And my Ceramics teacher who was fairly well- known, saw in my work that I wasn't going to make beautiful pots.

But he was building a house with a fairly-famous architect at that time and he dragged me over to the house a couple of times. And, after that, he said, "I have a hunch." And he put me in the Architecture class at night.

And it was -- that was the beginning and I got the bug. And I got a lot of approval for the first time in my life for doing some things. And I haven't looked back since.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEHRY: Frank Gehry, you're a genius. Behold, the new Springfield Concert Hall.

People really think I do that. I've had serious reporters start these conversations with, "Now, after you crumple the paper then what do you do."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Your home in Santa Monica in Los Angeles really put you on the map. It's a Dutch colonial bungalow in which you built another house around it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GEHRY: Around the house, yes. We had one child and another one coming and we lived in an apartment. And my wife decided we should have a house somewhere.

I'm terrible about doing things for myself. I mean, my only extravagance in life is my sailboat. I'm bonkers about that. But, other than that, I don't spend money on myself. So, she found this little Dutch emerald thing on the corner. It was two stories.

There was room on the side yard to expand. And there was a little bedroom on the front. So, it led to a drawing that showed that you can encapsulate the existing house and keep it there.

Now, the important thing in architecture is that it encloses space and as human as they get, feels good for people to be in and all of those things. That's first and foremost.

But then, how you do it, how you create that and how you engage people and -- like art does, engages you mostly and you learn from it. And you learn to see things differently because of it.

COREN: All your work starts with a sketch which you have described --

GEHRY: Yes. I don't crumple paper and then, you know, like "The Simpsons". People really think I do that. I've had serious reporters start these conversations with, "Now, after you crumple the paper then what do you do."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE SIMPSONS")

GEHRY: Frank Gehry, you're a genius. Behold, the new Springfield Concert Hall.

(END VIDEO CLIP, "THE SIMPSONS")

COREN: What was it like being approached and asked to play yourself, voice your own character.

GEHRY: The best part of it was Julie Kavner, the actress because she's Marge. And my part, the only talking part I have is by just talking to her. The big words I had to say after you crumpled the paper and you looked at it is, "Frank Gehry, you're a genius."

And it's hard to say. Unless you're, probably, if you're really egomaniac, you can, maybe, say it. But I had to say it and so I was an egomaniac.

And she drilled me for better part of a half hour, making me say it over and over again. So, I got so mad I said it right.

COREN: Immortalized by "The Simpsons", that's quite a compliment though.

GEHRY: Yes, it's like -- Oh, God, what they did was funnier than hell.

COREN: Functionality in your architecture is just as important as making budget.

GEHRY: My predecessors like Frank Lloyd Wright put everything in the way it had to be, and then expected people to live that way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

And people -- his clients succumbed to that. That idea bothered me about - - even though I thought they were beautiful -- I mean, I'm not critical at all of them. But just -- maybe his politics that led him to do that. I can't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

I'm very curious what people do. In fact, I've asked my clients here, "Please invite me back when they're filled". So, I'd like just one peak at how people relate to this and what they do with it.

COREN: I just want to discuss family because, I think, that's really quite a special point. Your daughter passed away several years ago from uterine cancer. And since then, you have become heavily-involved in foundations -- you have a foundation in her name. You have really thrown yourself into this sort of work. Tell me about that.

GEHRY: I got involved with the Hereditary Disease Foundation 30-some years ago because of Milton Wexler, the psychologist that had these groups that I went to and then we became very close friends.

And his wife died of Huntington's chorea and he has two daughters. And so, through that, I met many scientists. And found that the creative process - - there was a similarity in how they approached science and how I approached architecture. They were curious about me, I was curious about them.

So, I love that. You know, and I'm trying to -- when Leslie was dying, she asked that we leave whatever assets she had to them. And so that started then.

COREN: But to lose a child so late in life, I can't imagine what that would be like.

GEHRY: Yes, it's hard to -- you never forget it. You can't stop wondering why it happened and what you could have done. What did I do wrong. What should I have done. I should have caught it. I should have known.

I have her picture on my desk. I love her. The last four or five months of her life, which was mostly in the hospital, I spent a lot of time with her. And we really bonded in a way that we hadn't earlier. She was an artist and, anyway -- you don't overcome that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: And what do you think of this view.

GEHRY: It's spectacular. I was trying to -- I was trying to own it as best I could with these windows and balcony.

COREN: Mr. Gehry, what do you think of Hong Kong's skyline.

GEHRY: Well, it's vibrant beyond because you can get up and look at it like this. It's hard to look at New York City this way or Boston or Philadelphia. You're always in it.

So, I think, it's pretty unique. I think the intensity of it is mesmerizing and breathtaking. The individual buildings, I have not great things to say about many of them. But the conglomeration of them, somehow, overcomes the bits and pieces of it. I like the Cesar Pelli Tower.

COREN: The IFC Two.

GEHRY: Yes, that one. Just that one, the tallest one.

COREN: Yes. And what do you think of ICC, which actually is taller than - -

GEHRY: Yes, I don't think it's as successful, architecturally. I don't know why. I think it's the split at the corner. I studied that when I was doing my tower in New York.

And the split in the corner weakens the power of the building. It becomes two surfaces, like a wallpaper. A great designer did it, Bill Pedersen, so --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Because I would think that you have your critics already, so to be so hard on yourself --

GEHRY: I think I'm harder on myself than any critic ever imagined they could be. Nobody can beat me. Nobody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COREN: Do you form a connection to your buildings. Is it hard to let go.

GEHRY: Yes. The Walt Disney Concert Hall is a building I use. I go to concerts quite often.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

And the first couple years, I was a pain in the ass to the director who I sat next to because I'd say, "Why is that light on. Why is it." And she moved my seat.

I'm over it now. I can go there and I don't look at anything. I listen to the music and enjoy it. It's the idea of letting -- of championing people doing what they want to your building to make it theirs is also double- edged because when you go and see -- like in Bilbao, they start putting up signs and doing things and I said, "Oh, that's terrible. Why are you doing that."

And you've got to get over it. You've got to - you know, it's a living organism. It has to have a life of its own.

COREN: Well, you mention the Bilbao Guggenheim. It's described as groundbreaking architecture. Is that what you were trying to achieve back then.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEHRY: I wasn't trying to do anything. I was just trying to make a bloody building that worked for the arts, for my client. I don't have those kind of pretentions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

I was meeting with the President of the Basque Country - the Mayor of the city, the Minister of Culture, the Minister of commerce -- it's an industrial city. It was kind of dirty and the river was not being used for commerce likely. So, it wasn't vibrant.

They wanted a centerpiece. They wanted something. And they kept saying it's like the Sidney Opera House because it brought so much attention. So, they needed something like that.

COREN: Yet, you turned a backwater into one of Europe's top tourist destinations.

GEHRY: Yes.

COREN: So, it was selling --

GEHRY: So, we did what they asked for but I didn't know I was going to be able to. What I like about this game we're in, whatever you call it, is that there is -- the rewards are financial as well. So, for the City of Bilbao last year, $500 million attributed to the building.

It was just 12 years later, 11 years later. And it's been like that every year. So, it's changed the economics of the city -- just one puny little building. And it works. This one, apparently, already is starting to resonate. I should get a percentage of that, right.

COREN: You should.

GEHRY: We should. Architects are really dumb. We don't know how to do that.

COREN: Definitely not dumb. Definitely not dumb. Philip Johnson, the Godfather of Modern Art went to Bilbao a year after it had opened. And he said that it was the most important building in our time. And he described you as the greatest architect we have today.

GEHRY: And he cried. I was there.

COREN: And he cried.

GEHRY: But he was a great actor.

(LAUGHTER)

I love that man. Before he said that -- and he was very tough on me before he said that. He was always very critical. He would say, "Why are you doing that. Why are you doing that."

COREN: You did say that, when you completed Bilbao, "What have I done to these people."

GEHRY: Yes, I did. I don't know. I can't believe somebody let me do this. I feel like a serial killer that they have to stop me. "Stop me before I do it again."

COREN: Why is that. Why do you think you could --

GEHRY: I don't know. I was self-conscious and guilty. I'm Jewish, I guess. I'm not that Jewish. But as soon as you lose that, I think, you start to believe in the tooth fairy. You start to think you can do anything.

And I think, at that point, it's all over -- as soon as you're complacent. I really believe in a healthy insecurity. It's necessary to keep working.

COREN: Because I would think that you have your critics already. So, to be so hard on yourself --

GEHRY: I think I'm harder on myself than any critic ever imagined they could be. Nobody can beat me. Nobody. I'm interested in a lot of what the critics say.

COREN: Why is that.

GEHRY: Well, it's a different point of view. There's -- you know, not everybody won respects or thinks he's the greatest, but there are certainly enough of them around. And, sometimes, I feel they're wrong or they didn't get that something that I was trying to do. Or, maybe, they got it and I didn't understand what I did wrong.

Thoughtful, intelligent critics who come to the table with an educated sort of eye about it and can suss out the strengths and weaknesses. It's a different point of view.

COREN: But, over the years, has the criticism hurt.

GEHRY: No. No, I accept it. You know, when I taught -- when I teach students, from the beginning, I have them write their signatures. And then we look together and I say, "See, everyone is different. So, that's you. That's you. That's you."

If you follow that intuitive making of strokes, making of marks, making of models, making of spaces -- that's you. And you're the only expert in that.

So that's a nice thing. No matter what anybody says -- they may like it, they may not like it -- and you should listen and, sort of, figure out what's valuable to you, but you're still the only expert. They can't possibly know why, when you wrote your signature, it looks like that.

COREN: Frank, you are obviously still creating masterpieces. What does the future hold.

GEHRY: Why "still obviously." I don't notice it.

COREN: We do.

GEHRY: Oh good. OK.

COREN: We do.

GEHRY: I'll keep trying. Keeps me going.

COREN: So, you're not planning to retire any time soon.

GEHRY: No, why. Philip Johnson told me, "Never retire." He just kept at me. He said, "Don't." And my shrink friend, Milton, lasted -- both of those guys went until 99, so --

COREN: That's the plan.

GEHRY: That's the model.

COREN: Frank Gehry, an absolute pleasure to meet you.

GEHRY: Pleasure's mine.

COREN: Thank you so much.

END