Return to Transcripts main page


Jackson Family Feud

Aired July 25, 2012 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight, we have got brand new information just in, in the battle making headlines around the world. Take a look at this.

"The New York Daily News" says it is war as the Jackson family feud just keeps on escalating. New claims by Katherine Jackson`s lawyer that the 82-year-old mother of the late-superstar has been held against her will. And that`s just for starters.


VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight stunning twists in the battle over Michael Jackson`s estate. 82-year-old Katherine Jackson has just been suspended as the guardian to her late-pop superstar`s three children.

Is Katherine being held against her will as her lawyer believes? One of her adult grandsons says the matriarch was slowing her words. Is she sick? And could Michael Jackson`s siblings who are contesting the will that leaves them out be behind it all?

Shocking new information surfaces about the movie theater massacre suspect. You won`t believe the stunning allegations about what may have triggered the shooting spree that killed 12 and injured 58 others. This as the FBI discovers a package in a university mail room that appears to have been mailed by the alleged shooter. Were there warning signs? I`m taking your calls.

Plus, major developments in the case of little Lyric and Elizabeth, the young cousins who vanished while bike riding. Tonight, we`ll show you just-released surveillance video believed to be the girls on their bikes from the very day they disappeared. Is this the clue cops need to find Lyric and Elizabeth? Their aunt joins me live tonight.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is going on in the Jackson family?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is going on with the Jackson family?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Paris and Janet reportedly in a battle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The judge suspended Katherine Jackson as custodian for Prince, Paris and Blanket.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge appointed TJ Jackson as temporary custodian of the three children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First the disappearance of Michael Jackson`s mother, Katherine. Now we have new video that appears to show a scuffle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look what she`s saying nine days and counting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sheriff deputies showed up at the home of Michael Jackson`s mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Janet Jackson confronting Michael`s daughter, Paris. And it looks like Janet is going for Paris` cell phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t make sense of Janet trying to snatch the cell phone away from Paris and then trying to keep them from the grandmother.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight, new information in the battle for Michael Jackson`s millions, which could turn into billions. The courts have just stepped in to protect Michael`s three kids as a full-scale civil war erupts between three generations of Jacksons.

Accusations are flying. Was matriarch Katherine Jackson whisked away and held against her will by her own kids? Tensions exploded as surveillance video caught Janet Jackson, yes, the Janet Jackson, reportedly getting into a scuffle with her niece, Michael`s 14-year-old daughter, Paris.

Paris has been tweeting to her more than half a million followers, now up to 650,000 followers, that her grandmother, Katherine, vanished ten days ago and she cannot talk to her. Katherine`s raised Paris, Prince and Blanket ever since their dad, Michael, died.

But tonight a judge has just removed Katherine as their guardian quote, "because of the acts of third parties," end quote. But Randy Jackson insists she was just visiting his sister, Rebbie in Arizona and just come home tonight.

Watch this from GMA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RANDY JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S BROTHER: My mom is on her way back from Los Angeles. Under doctor order that her health is really bad and wanted her to go somewhere where she couldn`t be on the phone and just cut off from the outside world for a few days.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hours ago Katherine`s other grandson, TJ, was appointed temporary guardian of Michael`s kids. TJ told the court that he talked to his grandma on the phone but quote, "her words were slurred." And his lawyer said maybe she was trying to speak to him in code.

What? What is going on here? Call me, 1-877-JVM SAYS. That`s 1-877- 586-7297.

Straight to CNN`s Alan Duke.

You were in court today. You`re all over the story. You`ve got your sources. The whole world wants to know where on earth is Katherine Jackson. What do you know tonight, Alan Duke?

ALAN DUKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): She`s in a car driving. Seven or eight hours, however long it takes to get from Tucson, Arizona, back to Los Angeles. But guess what now, she`s got a cell phone. And she`s talking to people and trying to figure out what`s been going on the last ten days.

She had no clue there was an international controversy over where she was and why she wasn`t talking to Paris, Blanket or Prince Jackson, the three children of Michael Jackson.

So I think tomorrow is going to be a very interesting day for Katherine Jackson once she`s back and settled and gets to talk with her close advisors and other family members, the ones that weren`t with her in Arizona. And she is going to be somewhat confused and be founded by what they tell her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This sounds like an episode of mission impossible. Things just don`t add up. They`re not what they seem. Randy insists there were specific health reasons why his mother, Katherine, went to Arizona.

So watch this from MSNBC.


JACKSON: This person was doctor`s orders that she get immediate rest, isolate herself from the outside world and rest. She wasn`t doing too well. So as her children, that`s what we did.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s what I don`t understand. Couldn`t she have rested in Los Angeles? She`s got a huge mansion there.

Lisa Bloom, legal analyst for, it`s fully staffed. She wasn`t well. Isn`t the last thing she needs a ten-hour road trip from Arizona to Los Angeles?

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVO.COM: Jane, we are being spun. When we`re being told an 82-year-old woman has to drive ten hours to get some rest, something is wrong with this story. And why aren`t we hearing from Katherine Jackson herself? Who could clear it all up if she`s competent, if she`s able, if she`s not slurring her words.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Absolutely. I want to talk to Roland Martin, CNN analyst. You have just gotten off the phone with one of the members of this clan, what do you know?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANALYST: I talked to Marlon Jackson a couple hours ago. And what he told me is he had a plane on standby to fly his mother today to -- back to Los Angeles. He talked to her last night. He had not talked to her. He wanted to hear her voice. He said this morning she talked to all of the siblings and said that she was returning to Los Angeles.

So as to why she`s in a car, that absolutely makes no sense at all. He also said that initially he was told by Randy that his mother was in Canyon Ranch. He later found out that wasn`t true and found out the actual location. So the question begs, why would Randy Jackson tell his brother, Marlon Jackson, his mom is in one location when she actually is in another location?

I also asked Marlon specifically his thoughts on today`s decision to give temporary custody. He said quote, "it`s temporary. I`m for that. We got to have someone make decisions in her absence." But he would not address the issue of what would happen when it comes to full guardianship when it comes to TJ having the kids.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Roland, great information. And you`re hearing all this first. I got to say, maybe these two are in different factions, maybe that`s why Marlon didn`t get the scoop initially.

Let`s look at the confrontation again between Janet and Randy and Michael`s kids. Here it is. We`re going to show it to you in a second. It looks pretty bad.

Randy however told GMA the scuffle between Janet and Paris wasn`t as terrible as some made it out to be. Listen to this.


JACKSON: This has been sensationalized out of control. There was no slapping or calling of names. That never happened. This is all meant to try to take attention from -- this is fake, flawed. This is a disgrace on this family. It`s a disgrace on this country. And we want answers.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. There`s a war going on.

On one side Michael`s kids, Paris, Prince and Blanket. They are in the will. They stand to inherit possibly billions. Their grandmother, Katherine, has raised them since Michael`s death. She too is in the will.

Not in the will, Janet, her sister Rebbie and two brothers Jermaine and Randy. These are the Jackson siblings who have call the will of fake. Jermaine has insisted his mom was never missing. She was simply visiting their sister, Rebbie. And the list goes on and on.

Monday, Janet got into this scuffle with Paris. I got to go to Rob Shuter.

There is a war here of it`s got to be about money, most people say. It`s an obvious conclusion. They challenged the will just a few days ago at the very same time that all this is going down. What`s it about?

ROB SHUTER, COLUMNIST: Absolutely. The first thing that pops to anyone`s mind here is money. Imagine money that Michael Jackson has been able to make in death is absolutely astronomical. And that money train doesn`t look like it`s going to end any time soon.

The public still has a huge desire for Michael Jackson and his movies, his music and he`s making a ton of money.

So the first thing we`re all jumping to is that conclusion. However, some sources are telling me that as well as money there are some people in the Jackson family who are just worried about these children. Maybe I`m being naive here believing them, but I`ve got to believe that at least one or two of these Jacksons are worried about these kids. And ultimately that`s what`s so heartbreaking here is because whoever gets the kids gets the money.



PARIS JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S DAUGHTER: Daddy has been the best father you could ever imagine. And I just want to say I love him so much.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God. These kids have been through so much. That was then. This is now. You saw Janet Jackson cradling Paris after Michael Jackson died three years ago. Paris wept in Janet`s arms. And now this. They`re in a scuffle reportedly where Janet is trying to basically take her cell phone, it looks like. I mean, you decide for yourself. We`re all looking at the same thing. Why? Because Paris has used that cell phone to tweet to her 650,000 fans complaining about what`s going on. Jen Hager, assistant managing editor, radar online, what is the story behind the story here in terms of the money?


So let`s just analyze Randy Jackson`s argument that the 2002 will he says is fraudulent. We know that it`s not. It`s been validated by the judge, even if that will was thrown out. Then we have Michael Jackson`s 1997 will, which is the exact same as his 2002 will. Everything gets left to the children, his mother and the executor is still John Broncos (ph).

So, is Randy Jackson`s argument then that that will is fake also? Furthermore, I recently spoke with Perry Sanders, Katherine Jackson`s attorney, within the last hour and a half. He said that he is very anxious to talk to Katherine and that she is very upset by all of this that has been going on. She was completely unaware as Alan Duke alluded to earlier in the show.

Furthermore, she has said that when she meets with Perry Sanders she wants to do so alone, absolutely alone.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa, let me jump in here for a second. When you say she`s unaware, are you essentially -- if we extrapolate from that, Roland Martin, is that like saying they allegedly took her on a trip, whisked her away, kept her there for nine days and they told her some sort of story about why you don`t have to call the kids even though the kids were tweeting to the world?

Paris was tweeting basically she doesn`t know what`s going on, she wants to talk to her grandma, they kept her in the dark?

MARTIN: This is utterly confusing. And part of the problem here is you`re hearing statements that is coming from Jermaine, that is coming from and Randy and then all of a sudden other brothers are talking.

And so, so many people are in the dark with what`s going on. And of course, you also see TJ who is tweeting Paris, Paris tweeting back.

On this whole issue of Janet and going after Paris, you know, we heard about Janet not being happy with her doing a potential movie. Keep in mind Janet Jackson was also a child star. She understands what it`s all about. Here`s a young lady in Paris Jackson who has frankly been kept out of the public eye all of a sudden has almost 600,000 twitter followers and she hasn`t really done anything. And so, she`s still operating in a public eye.

And again, her father was very protective. So I think it is worth having a conversation that Janet could be saying, we`ve got to protect a 14-year-old girl who very well might be going off of a cliff as opposed to just saying, hey, do whatever you want. Katherine is 82 years old.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this is one of the strangest parts of this whole thing is why is Janet getting involved in this fight over the will? She is a huge pop star in her own right. She`s very wealthy.

Watch this from virgin records.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Janet Jackson is the new spokesperson for nutri- system. Actually, we saw her on the Web site. She`s got money. She`s got to be a multi-millionaire. We are now on the phone with Katherine Jackson`s attorney, Perry Sanders.

Thank you so much, Perry, for joining us.

The whole world wants to know, another one of Katherine Jackson`s lawyer who reportedly saying, we believe Mrs. Jackson been held against her will. TJ Jackson, who was the temporary guardian, has been quoted as saying "Katherine Jackson`s words were slurred, her choice of vocabulary I never heard her use those phrases." And I think it was you who suggested she might be speaking to her family in code. Perry?

PERRY SANDERS, KATHERINE JACKSON`S ATTORNEY (via telephone): No. I didn`t suggest that. This is Perry Sanders and I did not suggest that at all. I wasn`t there when that happened.

I spoke to Katherine just a little while ago. She sounded absolutely great. She`s in a car right riding home. I intend to see her tomorrow. She sounded fine.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, why would this other attorney who says that she is the attorney for Katherine Jackson, Sandra Rivera, say quote, "we have reason to believe Mrs. Jackson has been held against her will."

SANDERS: You`d have to ask Sandra Rivera that question. The bottom line is that I think this has just probably been one gigantic misunderstanding. The domino effect of it has been so fast that on a day- to-day basis this very complex family`s not been able to get on the same page on a day-to-day basis.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Perry, let me ask you this.

When they challenge the will, the five siblings who challenged it now I believe there`s four said that Katherine had suffered a mini stroke. If somebody suffers a mini stroke, why trek them to another state? Why not -- she has a beautiful ginormous (ph) mansion right in L.A. where she can get all the medical care she needs. Our panelist saying that doesn`t pass the smell test.

SANDERS: OK. First of all, to my knowledge she didn`t have any mini stroke. I talked to people at the house the day before she left and multiple people that were, she was doing fine, laughing, cutting up. Doing all the same stuff I`ve seen her do at the house on numerous occasions. She was doing absolutely fine. Actually, I flew out yesterday to Tucson. I met with Jackie and I met with -- excuse me, not Jackie, I met with Jermaine and --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wow. Can we hear you? Oh, I think we`re losing him a bit.

All right. Well, look. Here`s what I wanted to ask him, we lost him.

How is it possible, Rob Shuter, that Paris Jackson is tweeting nine days and counting, so help me God I will make whoever did this pay. Eight days and counting. Something is really off. This isn`t like her at all. I want to talk directly to my grandma. On and on all, these tweets. And now, well, it`s like nothing to see here. Nothing to see here. Move along.

SHUTER: Right. I think this is what the biggest problem the Jacksons have at the moment is that attorneys are going to want to brush this under the rug. They`re very embarrassed that we`ve all been able to see this. And really our eyes into this world have been Paris, Jackson and twitter.

She`s 14 years old. Kids tweet. She`s a kid like everybody else. She`s very different in many other ways. But now that she`s put those tweets out, nobody can believe that Katherine Jackson, who loves these children, everybody will agree on that, would leave these kids without telling them where she was going for over nine days.

I just don`t know how they managed to explain that away, Jane.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s what it`s all about. That was Michael Jackson`s "thriller" from Sony Records.

Obviously he`s up there with Elvis and Marilyn Monroe. There`s only one Michael Jackson. And we are learning tonight that Michael`s estate has generated more than $475 million since his death. His lawyers have paid off most of his debt and various mortgages. So now the money is starting to come in.

Is it a coincidence that this drama, this family conflict, is occurring at the very same time that the estate has started to rake in huge amounts of money?

I want to go back to Lisa Bloom, legal analyst for Avo. What do you want to see happen in the wake of all these events?

BLOOM: The good news is Paris, now 14 years old, is capable of speaking directly to the world without getting permission from anyone. She can go on twitter and essentially ask for help. And that`s what she`s done.

And I`m concerned about the safety of these children. You know, we have a lot of adults in the family who are arguing with each other, even scuffling with the children. We have the matriarch 82-years-old potentially kidnapped according to some people.

I would like to see child protective services get in there and make sure the kids and grandma are OK.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Katherine`s attorney, Perry Sanders, you heard one of our legal guests, Lisa Bloom, say, hey, I want to see department of children services go in and make sure these kids are OK because what`s happening here, people being offer the radar screen when their guardians` claims of that said guardian now temporarily removed slurring her words, et cetera, that from TJ, that there needs to be an investigation by child services. What say you, sir?

SANDERS: I say that that`s a relatively irresponsible comment under all these circumstances as I know them to be.

Katherine Jackson is incredibly competent. She does a great job raising these kids. I`m not sure because I wasn`t around when this conversation took place of the alleged slurred words, et cetera, but the bottom line is Katherine`s incredibly competent.

I`ve spoke to her today. She`s on her way back from Arizona. I`ll see her tomorrow. And at the juncture that it`s appropriate to make any recommendation other than the appropriate one, I would do it. This is --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, Perry, let me just ask you this question. I don`t think anybody`s questioning Katherine Jackson. Everybody loves Katherine Jackson. They`re saying if Katherine Jackson is not in charge of her own fate, I mean, the judge himself when he removed temporary guardianship he said he was doing it because she may be quote "prevented from acting as a guardian because of the acts of third parties." It`s the third parties we`re concerned about. People have been saying basically whoever controls the kids, controls the money, OK?

Go ahead.

SANDERS: I totally understand exactly what you`re saying. But the bottom line is this, Mrs. Jackson is completely lucid. She went on a holiday as a result of having apparently a little bit of high blood pressure. I personally flew to Tucson yesterday to go out and see her. I did meet with Janet and Jermaine, talked to them. I didn`t get to meet with Katherine, but when I talked to Katherine today, she didn`t realize I was in Tucson because apparently she wasn`t told because nobody wants to upset her, have a lawyer show up in a spa where she`s having a good time, taking it easy and relaxing. She`s been known to go on long trips. The kids go on long trips. TJ, the exact same people involved here are the people that normally take care of the kids.

This was just an unusual situation. And I`m telling you this was a domino-effect of very, very, very day-to-day bad, bad events that should probably never have happened, but they happened. And things like that happen. If it weren`t the Jackson family --



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is going on in the Jackson family?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is going on with the Jackson family?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Paris and Janet reportedly in a battle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The judge suspended Katherine Jackson as custodian for prince, Paris and Blanket.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge appointed TJ Jackson as temporary custodian of the three children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First the disappearance of Michael Jackson`s mother, Katherine. Now we have new video that appears to show a scuffle.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look what she`s saying "Nine days and counting."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A sheriff`s deputy showed up at the home of Michael Jackson`s mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Janet Jackson confronting Michael`s daughter, Paris. And it looks like Janet is going for Paris` cell phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t make sense of Janet trying to snatch the cell phone away from Paris and then trying to keep them from the grandmother.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: New information coming in as we speak tonight to this show in the battle for Michael Jackson`s millions, which could turn into billions. We are told Katherine Jackson on her way back from Arizona as we speak. She`s being driven back or driving back. Of course, she raised her grandkids, Paris, Prince and Blanket, ever since their dad, Michael, died. A judge a little while ago, hours ago removed Katherine as their guardian, quote, "because of the acts of third parties".

Katherine`s other grandson TJ appointed temporary guardian of Michael`s kids. TJ told the court he talked to his grandmother on the phone but said, quote, "her words were slurred", end quote. And TJ`s lawyers add maybe she was trying to speak to him in code.

So many developments -- we just got off the phone with Katherine`s attorney Perry Sanders who essentially said nothing to see here but our panel is shaking their heads and say, yes, there is something to see here.

Roland Martin, CNN analyst, what say you? Is this about money? And is this the Jackson siblings who were left out of the will trying to get control of these kids because whoever controls the kids controls the money?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN ANALYST: I think there are multiple facets of this. First and foremost, you have to confront the issue of money when you have Jackson siblings trying to contest the will. Because they`re trying to say these are not the right executors. They have an undue influence that`s tied to money.

Also when you begin to talk about guardianship, remember, Katherine Jackson`s getting upwards of $70,000 a month from the estate to care for the two children. You take that over the course of a year, I mean you`re talking about nearly a million dollars to take care of a couple of kids. So what about that particular issue?

Then of course you add on the fact that Katherine Jackson is 82 years old. Her portion of the estate when she passes away goes to the children.

But here`s what I find to be interesting, Jane. Remember in Michael Jackson`s will if Katherine Jackson couldn`t care for the children, Diana Ross was supposed to be able to care for the children. Where does she enter into all of this conversation?

So it is extremely confusing. And I think -- listen to the attorney there, Jane. I`m not buying a lot of that stuff. If she went away for health reasons, don`t you think she would have told the children and she would have said I`m going away so therefore this is who`s going to care for you guys for the next ten days? That makes no sense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Perry Sanders, you`re Katherine Jackson`s attorney. Can you respond to that, sir?

PERRY SANDERS, ATTORNEY FOR KATHERINE JACKSON (via telephone): I sure can. First of all she did tell them who was going to care for them -- the same person that always cares for them. This was just a very unusual situation of being in a spa that was not a complete access spa. Regarding challenging the will, as everybody knows and I`m sure Roland does, of course, that the deadline for doing that advanced long before --


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh my gosh. He`s going in and out. But you get the point. He`s essentially saying nothing to see here. But I got to go to Erin Jacobs. You are co-founder of Justice for MJ. I spent many days with you outside court during the trial for Michael Jackson`s doctor. What do you make of all of this?

ERIN JACOBS, CO-FOUNDER, JUSTICE FOR MJ: Insanity. Absolute insanity. And the fans are completely upset that Paris Jackson, Michael Jackson`s only daughter has been screaming out for help for nine days. And four siblings in the Jackson family have done nothing to alleviate this child`s pain.

We are so tired of the antics of the Jackson family. They blame the media. They blame everybody else when they are the ones that cause the division in this family. And I`ll tell you what, the fan base of Michael Jackson, which is huge because we took that estate from 60 to billions of dollars in three short years, has a say in what`s going to happen in the future with Michael Jackson`s projects and music and most importantly his children.

We ask that Paris not let them take her phone away. We begged her to keep talking to us because if they do take Paris` phone away and something sinister is going on, like it appears it is, we need her to be able to communicate with us so that you and the media and whoever needs to get involved, can get involved.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, Randy Jackson and any of the Jackson siblings, in fact anybody even remotely connected to this case invited on our show any time. We try to be fair. That`s why we`ve been playing Randy Jackson`s comments to various other news organizations.

Jen Heger, assistant managing editor RadarOnline, here`s what a source tells us however. That both Randy and Jermaine claim are behind on child support payments and asked Michael Jackson`s estate to help pay their child support payments. Again, do we need to follow the money on this?

JEN HEGER, ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR, RADARONLINE: Absolutely. You`ve got to follow the money. The brothers, Jermaine and Randy, did informally float the idea by the executors of having them pay their back child support. Remember, they have the same baby mama, Alejandra Jackson?

The state immediately shot that down. They did not even have a formal discussion about it. broke that story yesterday. Because in the will the siblings are left completely out; again, we need to circle back to Randy Jackson`s claim that Michael -- that he says Michael Jackson`s 2002 will is fraudulent. Ok. Let`s go there and say, yes, it`s fraudulent.

The 1997 will, no siblings are mentioned in the will. They`re all excluded, period. So you have to follow the money. And furthermore, if I can just say, you know, I understand Janet Jackson is concerned for Paris, you know, tweeting to people and being overexposed in the media, however, she had no reason whatsoever to try to take away that young girl`s cell phone. She is not her temporary guardian. She had no permission to be there on the property that day.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Rob Shuter, I`m going to give you the last word.

ROB SHUTER, HUFFINGTON POST: It`s a whole mess. Ultimately though, it`s really sad Jane. This is the saddest story. It`s so awful that all these fans of Michael Jackson throughout the world are once again seeing this horrible side of the Jackson family. It makes me sad.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re hearing more and more about potentially dangerous ingredients in the beauty products we slather on our bodies. You know 100 ingredients for that bottle. We don`t know what those ingredients are. My alternative is I make my own: makeup remover, perfume, body lotion.

And essentially what I do is almond oil, very simple. I pour that in. And then I use essential oils like tea tree oil and rosemary and lavender. And I mix it all up and put it in various bottles so that I can go on trips, I can go exercise. People always ask me what are you wearing and I say, I made it myself.



VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have incredible new details about the accused Colorado movie theater shooter, James Holmes. We`re going to tell you what he was doing in the weeks leading up to the massacre. And we`re also going to tell you we`ve gotten brand new information about a mystery package that might have some insight into what was behind the shooting.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: James Holmes looks more like a mad scientist now, a far cry from the promising neuroscientist that came to Colorado just a year ago.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: More disturbing new information and insight into how many people massacre suspect James Holmes may have intended to kill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of person does stuff like that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you think that your next door neighbor would do something like that next to your house?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little girl was killed. (inaudible) I have a 3- year-old daughter myself. I don`t think I could do it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She like to draw. And she always liked to look at the bunny.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Dark Knight himself, actor Christian Bale, with no advance notice, little fanfare, met with the survivors and visited a memorial for the victims.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is if he is mentally ill, how was he able to plan this setup for months at a time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we surmise he was psychotic for three months while he was planning methodically to kill many people?


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight stunning information about the activities and life of movie theater massacre suspect James Holmes in the weeks leading up to the horrific shootings. CNN has now confirmed tonight that PhD candidate and now suspect James Holmes did poorly on his neuroscience oral exam on June 7th, that`s a little more than one month before the shooting.

And another new development, authorities investigating tonight a package apparently sent by the alleged gunman -- a package that was found in the University of Colorado Denver mail room. University officials won`t confirm -- will not confirm who sent it or what was in it, but they say it was a suspicious package and it was found Monday, Monday, four days after the shooting. It prompted school officials to evacuate the building.

Tonight, Holmes under suicide watch in county jail -- authorities not taking any chances. Get this, when police arrested Holmes Friday, they put evidence bags over his hands to preserve traces of gun powder.

Our affiliate KMGH is now reporting that Holmes pretended the bags were puppets. Like hand puppets. Is that all part of his act? Is he thinking how would an insane person act? And if he is in fact trying to convince America that he`s mentally ill, well, are we going to let him get away with it? We duked it out on Dr. Drew just last night.


AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: If the judge determines he`s not competent to stand trial, this shooter can go to a state hospital. He may not even be in jail. He can go to a state hospital. He can be medicated.

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Indefinitely?

A. MARTIN: Indefinitely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I do not buy the idea that this man is just insane. I think he`s evil. I think he knows the difference between right and wrong.

PINSKY: Jane, I`ve got to go.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We cannot give this accused killer a past and say well, he`s just mentally ill.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Straight out to attorney, Areva Martin. We disagreed last night about James Holmes. I personally think it would be an outrage if he never went to trial because he`s deemed mentally incompetent. Why go there? Why not assume he`s sane until evidence to the contrary?

A. MARTIN: Jane, first of all let me make clear, we didn`t disagree last night. I did not state that this guy should not be put to jail, should not be given the stiffest penalty possible. I merely stated that he can plead guilty by reason of insanity -- that`s a legal term. And it doesn`t necessarily mean the same thing as being insane when we think about it in more layman`s terms.

But when you commit a crime in this country you`re given an opportunity to plead guilty by reason of insanity. That really just means that you have the capacity -- do you have the ability to understand the charges that are being leveled against you? And can you help with the defense of your case? That`s the question that the judge is going to have to ask and then have answered before he can proceed to trial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Attorney Lisa Bloom, some are saying he`s never going to go to trial because he`ll be ruled mentally incompetent and sent to a hospital.

LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: Well, there are different stages where your competency is evaluated. If he`s incompetent now, that`s true he would not be tried. But he will be medicated, as everybody is in that situation. He`ll be given psychiatric medication.

Think about the Elizabeth Smart case. For many years her kidnappers were in that situation. They were medicated and ultimately they were then better. They were mentally competent. They were tried. They were convicted. I think that`s what will happen here.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tomorrow on this show I`m diving deep into the latest controversy surrounding SeaWorld. Look at this video, a whale and a SeaWorld trainer. Tomorrow I`m going to have a very special guest who will speak for the whales. They can`t speak for themselves.

More on the Colorado massacre in just a moment.



ALEX SANCHEZ, FRIEND OF SHOOTING VICTIM JESSE CHILDRESS: (inaudible) I asked him to let him come into -- that --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not your fault, ok? It`s not your fault.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many lives destroyed. Is suspect James Holmes getting a pass with all this talk of insanity?

Here`s my take. Whatever happened to the old-fashioned concept of evil? Just how many dead bodies does it take for somebody to go from simply being a bad person to mentally ill? If you kill one person, you`re bad and deserve to rot in prison. But if you kill a dozen people then well, you can`t just be a bad person, you`ve got to be mentally ill?

I personally don`t buy it. I know from my personal experience as a journalist of three decades, people lose their moral compass. People lose their ability to relate to the pain of others. People can develop murderous resentments and grudges. They can feel the world out there is their enemy. And they can be completely sane in the process.

What say you, forensic psychologist, Dr. Brian Russell?

DR. BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I say amen, Jane. You and I have both been doing this a long time and we basically concur.

Good evening.

There are basically two hurdles that have to be overcome to bring this guy to justice. One is his competency to stand trial and that`s a fairly low bar. In other, it`s tough to be incompetent to stand trial. All you basically have to be able to do is understand the due process that`s going to be going on around you and be able to assist in your own defense.

The second hurdle is the criminal responsibility or the insanity, in other words. And there are sort of three senses of that word, Jane.

One is the colloquial sense of the word "insane" when we just say something is sick or crazy and we just mean it`s weird and bizarre. But it doesn`t have any clinical or legal significance.

Then there`s clinical insanity meaning that somebody suffers from a mental diseases or defect that makes them out of touch with reality at least to some extent. So maybe they`re not able to parent children or make a will to tie it in to an earlier story today.

And then there`s legal insanity which means somebody is so out of it that they are either incapable of even knowing what they`re doing, appreciating the nature of their actions, or if they do appreciate what they`re doing, they can`t appreciate the wrongfulness. And by wrongfulness, we don`t mean by their own subjective standards, we mean by society`s standards; in other words, to appreciate the criminality of their actions.

This guy engaged in all kinds of preparation, planning and practice that indicate a mind working well enough to appreciate both of those things. And also active concealment of his activities, indicating that he knew that he would be stopped if he were discovered.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe these girls are alive. And we are not discouraged by the passage of time since their disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is just baffling to try to figure out the pieces to the puzzle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother of one of the two girls missing in Iowa says she has passed a lie detector test.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is sad, you know, that they`re not found yet.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight brand-new surveillance video from the moment before the two beautiful Iowa cousins went missing. Look at this video; it was taken less than a block away from the girls` grandmother`s house where they`ve been at an auction house. You can see two grainy figures fly by on bikes at the corner of the screen at the time.

Cops believe this video shows the missing 8-year-old Elizabeth and 10- year-old Lyric but they cannot confirm it. But if you look at the map, the auction house is in the opposite direction of the lake where the girls` bikes were found.

So how did they end up in that direction and then end up with dogs hitting on the lake? I want to go to Tammy Brousseau, aunt of the two missing girls, do you believe that this is video of the two girls and what does it tell you?

TAMMY BROUSSEAU, AUNT OF THE TWO MISSING IOWA GIRLS: I have looked at the video over and over and over. I gave Elizabeth that bicycle so I`m very familiar with the bicycle; it very much so appears to be Elizabeth. The first one you see come across the screen appears to be Elizabeth on the bicycle. And then Lyric was on a mountain bike.

The next thing you see -- yes the video is distorted, but the next person you see is a little girl on a mountain bike --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re out of time.