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Vicious Fight Outside Courthouse; Jackson Family Turmoil
Aired July 26, 2012 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight, new information on the Colorado massacre and the drama unfolding in the Jackson family war.
But first take a look at this. An emotionally charged murder hearing erupts into a vicious fight outside of courthouse in Missouri. It is the murder suspect`s son facing off against the prosecution`s witness who have just testified against his father. We`re going to tell you about the dramatic moments in court that might have sparked this brawl.
VELEZ-MITCHELL (voice-over): Tonight, a courthouse fight so outrageous you have to see it to believe it. Cameras rolling as two men erupt in a heated battle outside a Missouri courtroom. This during a break in a murder pre-trial hearing for a husband accused of murdering his beautiful estranged wife and mother of triplets, Jacque Waller vanished nearly a year ago. Why were these men duking it out? We`ll bring you the astounding back story.
Then, new disturbing details in the Colorado shooting massacre. New reports that suspect James Holmes sent a notebook to a university psychologist where he talked about killing people and even showed crude drawings of a gunman and his victims. Was this a manifesto, a foreshadowing of the movie theater massacre or a desperate plea for attention? I`m taking your call.
Plus, the war within the Jackson family getting even uglier. Katherine Jackson goes on camera saying she was not kidnapped. But what she speaking her own mind? Why was she surrounded by some of the Jackson siblings who are challenging Michael Jackson`s will? And you won`t believe what Michael Jackson`s oldest son, Prince, is now saying as he lays down the gauntlet and fights back against his famous aunts and uncles. We`ll talk to a Jackson expert and ask him why Prince says his famous dad warned him about certain people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A mother with three kids. And we`re just hoping she comes back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Unanswered questions regarding Waller`s whereabouts the day his wife Jacque went missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, unfortunately, don`t think we`re going to find her alive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Blood spatters in a 23-foot hallway and bloody carpet found in a crossway inside a hallway in the home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come up here. Tell everybody how bad you miss your wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Testimony that Jacque and Clay met with a divorce attorney the day she disappeared.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just want to find her no matter what and make sure there`s justice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Waller`s son confronted marshal outside and they got into a fight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 39-year-old Jacque Waller was finalizing her divorce and picking up her son at her estranged husband`s home in Jackson, Missouri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Said that Waller made statements about killing Jacque in 2010.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Age, height, blond hair, blue eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will get justice.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live.
Courtroom drama spills out on to the streets. A Missouri courthouse could not contain the tension surrounding a husband`s murder trial. Clay Waller charged with murdering his estranged wife, Jacque, the mother of triplets.
Look at this beautiful woman. Cops say she vanished last summer after showing up at Clay`s house to pick up her son. Her body has not been found.
At a pre-trial hearing yesterday a prosecution witness testified that Clay, the defendant, told him quote "he would kill Jacque rather than allow his kids to call another man, daddy," end quote. Well, did that set him off?
The murder dependent`s adult son, CJ, verbally confronted the prosecutions` witness, Matt Marshal, outside court. You can see the witness who is a lot heavier. Then, clock, and then, this is CJ retaliating.
The fight spilled on to the sidewalk. Witnesses stumbled in the ground. CJ is the one in the white. He is thinner and younger. He`s being restrained at this point. Bystanders try to break it up.
Now, the two men are finally pulled apart. They were both charged with assault. This case has been highly, highly charged from the very beginning. And it`s JC. JC is the son.
A nasty divorce, death threats. And at the heart of it three 6-year- olds who still have no answer about what happened to their mom. Will the evidence prove that Clay Waller killed his beautiful wife? Call me, 1-877- JVM-SAYS.
Straight out to Laura Long Heibig, spokeswoman for Jacque`s family.
Laura, I know this is very difficult for you and the people you`re speaking for tonight. What do you make of this brawl between Clay`s son, the defendant`s son, and this prosecution witness who just testified against Clay in court?
LAURA LONG HELBIG, SPOKESWOMAN FOR VICTIM`S FAMILY (via telephone): Well, what I make of it, Jane, is that you have a young boy, young man, 20- years-old who lived with Jacque and Clay of and on for the better part of 17 years. She took care of him. But it`s his father accused of murdering her.
So he`s a boy with strongly divided loyalties. And, you know, he sat in court for several hours listening to people talk about the evidence that pointed to his father did the murder. And I think when it was all said and done, he was outside and he saw this man outside and I think he snapped. My sympathy goes out to him because he`s really a lost child right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to go to Joey Jackson, criminal defense attorney. We`ll take a look at this fight one more time. And the son of the defendant is the thin young man. You`re going to see him fighting against the prosecution witness who is the heavyset man.
But, is this not -- the guy in the white is the son of the defendant. Is this not another example of how when somebody commits a crime, allegedly, they destroy their entire family including the ones they supposedly love?
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it really is, Jane. And it`s a sad commentary. And I know everyone has a boiling point and it`s always a problem when you kind a take matters into your own hands.
And unfortunately, something like this certainly could have been avoided. But at the same time, you know, look in the confrontation the other gentleman didn`t have to throw a punch. And so, you can argue that he was certainly defending himself. He was defending his interest. Whether or not he should have actually approached him and said anything about it is always another story.
But I think people have to exercise restraint. We have to be guided by justice. And we have to be guided by law. And unfortunately that wasn`t followed here, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me ask a question. Is courthouse violence a trend? Because earlier this month we showed the insane chaos that erupted just outside a Florida courtroom. Check this out. Another case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hand off me (BLEEP).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, take a look at this. The violence erupted between the relatives of two brothers and the family of the man charged with killing them.
So, Seema Iyer, former prosecutor, criminal defense attorney, here, you are joining me on set. Do the courts need to do more to keep both sides separated?
SEEMA IYER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Jane. Joey Jackson and I could regale you for hours on stories of courtroom brawls. And frankly I love them. Next best thing to a perp walk.
However, what really needs to happen in this case it`s a murder case, very serious, a lot of press there. Court officers should accompany the families separately outside into their vehicles so they will not interact with each other. And that could prevent such violence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think that you`re making a very good point. And again, if we show you the second one, the one that we just show. This is a brawl that occurred recently, a totally different case.
But I want to go to Stacy Honowitz, Florida prosecutor. I mean, you`re a prosecutor. Why is this insanity allowed to happen? It seems to be happening more and more right outside court. They didn`t even get outside the courthouse, Stacy.
STACY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: You`re right, Jane. You know, there is in the 24 years I`m in the courthouse, you know, I haven`t seen a lot of it, but I`ve seen many times when emotions get heated in the courtroom. People can`t get separated and it does go into overflow out into the hallway and then outside.
They need to beef up security. I mean, the fact of the matter is there have been very, very heated arguments and a lot of violence that`s gone on. Courthouse administrators need to realize that they need to make the security tighter or come up with a way in which the people are escorted like your last guest said to their car. And so that this type of thing doesn`t happen.
Many times prosecutors have to be escorted out of the courtroom through back doors with security around them because defendants` families get very upset at the prosecutor in the case. So it is happening all over. And I think people need to take note that this is a problem that needs to be taken care of.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s get back to the case that we`re talking about, the tragedy of this beautiful woman, a mother of triplets who disappeared June 1, 2011 and has not been seen since, presumed dead. Prosecutors said they have tons of forensic and circumstantial evidence to get the defendant, the estranged husband, inside his home where his estranged wife was last seen. They found blood spatter in the hall and several pieces of torn carpet that were hidden in a crawl space. Those bloodstains match Jacque`s DNA on her computer. They found her diary in which she allegedly said her husband has threatened to kill her. Jacque`s parents say she told them about her husband`s threats. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBY RAWSON, JACQUE WALLER`S MOTHER: She had told us about the threats against her and the kids. And she had told us about him dragging her through the house. And the kids trying to calm him down.
STAN RAWSON, JACQUE WALLER`S FATHER: They got too much evidence that she`s not alive. The prosecuting attorney down there and everybody agreed that she didn`t leave that house alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We reached out to the defendant, clay Waller`s public defender, have not gotten a response. But Laura Long Helbig, the family spokeswoman, there`s an old saying, tragically, no body, no case. Do you think that will apply here? Or is there so much evidence you feel the prosecution has a strong case?
HELBIG: I think the evidence is overwhelmingly against Waller. I think there will be a successful prosecution. I think he made many mistakes. The first one being murdering Jacque, the second not confessing and telling us where she is so we can bring her home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities have confirmed that a package delivered to the University of Colorado Monday came from shooting suspect James Holmes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of person does stuff like that? I mean, it -- would you think that your next door neighbor would do something like that next to your house?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, if he is mentally ill, how was he able to plan this setup for a month at a time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I should have asked him -- to come in --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not your fault, OK? It`s not your fault.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we surmise that this guy was psychotic for three months while he was planning so methodically to kill many people?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, new mystery surrounds that package apparently sent by massacre shooting suspect James Holmes to one of his professors. And there are new questions tonight about why it took ambulances 24 minutes to arrive at the movie theater after the shootings.
CBS News reporting that James Holmes sent a package to a psychologist at the University of Colorado, Denver, where the suspect had recently dropped out of a Ph.D. program in neuroscience. And CBS news says it arrived just three days after the movie theater shootings. Here`s what investigators found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MILLER, CBS THIS MORNING SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: We were told that there is verbiage kind of pent-up with the phrase use writings about shooting people and there were some very rudimentary images in there, a shooter and victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s right. The writings described as pent-up that accused mass murderer, James Holmes, reportedly talk about shooting people and there were crude drawings of a gunman and his victims.
You have to wonder, did the sender intend for them to arrive after the shootings? We still don`t know when it was postmarked. Could it have been a cry for help? Could it have been a manifesto?
And now, new information that while cops arrived at the theater superfast, three minutes or less after the first 911 calls came in, we`re learning tonight it took ambulances 24 minutes to get there. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE: Metro 10, Lincoln 25, do I have permission to start taking some of these victims via, via car? I got a whole bunch of people shot out here, no rescue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE FIRE DISPATCH: P.D. is again requesting e emergent medical to the back of the theater.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE FIRE COMMANDER: I copy that. I`m just trying to get things under control here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me say first responders saved lives that night. Nobody can play Monday morning quarterback on this one at all. But 24 minutes is a considerable time for ambulances to arrive. What can be done to fix this? What do you think? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Let`s begin with this package apparently sent by the suspect James Holmes. Straight to forensic psychologist Brian Russell. What do you make of it? What`s your analysis?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Jane, as you know, as soon as the story broke I said I think this person has something to say. And so the discovery of this package is consistent with that theory.
Now, we still don`t know exactly what it is yet. And as you know I like to do my comparisons and contrasts. The Virginia tech shooter did something similar. Remember, he put a package in the mail to the media right before his rampage. The difference here though is that the Virginia tech shooter knew that he was going to die in it or planned to die in it where this shooter went out of his way to survive it.
So I still believe, Jane, that he is probably going to try to articulate orally whatever it is he has to say in the context of a trial and that this package was more of an insurance policy in case he happened to be killed in the course of it that the message would still get out to some degree.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, interesting analysis.
Did James Holmes mail the package to his professor to stop the shootings? Or was it his manifesto? You just heard this happens quite often. In fact, just recently a husband and father left a video diary after killing his wife and daughter. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do have my escape. And that`s death. I would shoot myself. And I`m OK with that. I don`t really feel bad about it. It`s just the way it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, the Virginia tech shooter did the very same thing sending a videotape of himself to NBC after he shot and killed 32 innocent people.
Here`s my take, it`s a sad and rarely spoken irony that people who commit horrific crimes often feel like they`re the victims. They have what we call a victim mentality. In the old days we might have said that guy`s walking around with a giant chip on his shoulder.
As resentments and grudges grow, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy, they become isolated and alienated. They start to see the whole world and everyone in it as the enemy. And they then feel justified in exacting revenge on anyone they target.
So, again, my question, Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecution, are these twisted manifestos their way of setting the record straight explaining themselves to the world that they`re so convinced the world doesn`t understand them?
HONOWITZ: Well, I like what you just said. I don`t really think anybody could say it any better than that. Really, I`m not a psychiatrist. I`m not a psychologist. But absolutely --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re a prosecutor who has come face-to-face with so many criminals. You are better than a psychiatrist. You have dealt with them firsthand.
HONOWITZ: Yes. And you know, it`s interesting because after 24 years it`s still hard to try to figure out why they would engage in the action they do. I mean, obviously this was a manifesto, a cry, I think it`s a combination of all of it. Do they feel like victimized and justified? Absolutely. Even in a lot of the cases you will hear them tell the police officer that they felt that they were being harmed in some way so they had to go out and do something. So is it him trying to set the record straight without knowing all of the facts in this case? I think anybody could tell you, yes, that he does have something to say and he wanted people to know.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The image in our heads it`s stuck in there. And I still have the ticket right here. And honestly, I`m never going to forget this night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight new information. CBS reporting suspect James Holmes sent a package to one of his professors that arrived three days after the massacre. It contained notes about shooting people and crude drawings of a man and his victims, a man shooting people, a gunman. He must have had a reason for sending this morbid package to his professor. What was it?
Here`s more from CBS`s John Miller on "ac 360."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILLER: If it`s the professor we believe it to be, it was somebody who taught a series of courses that he attended including neurological disorders and ironically schizophrenia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Seema Iyer, former prosecutor, criminal defense attorney, why did he send the package?
IYER: The letter is more evidence that he was in the middle of a psychotic break. That is my strong opinion with this, Jane.
This is what I think. That was evidence of the psychotic break after he fails the exam. This is graduate school. People don`t usually just drop out of graduate school. The NIH awarded six grants that year. He was one of those fellows. And just after one bad exam he drops. Then this letter. Now, was this letter as you`re saying, was it an intent letter, was it a manifesto? It doesn`t matter. This for me as a defense attorney, this is evidence of mental illness.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I respectfully couldn`t disagree with you more. I think we give these people a pass, as I said last night, shoot one person and you`re a bad guy. Shoot 13 and suddenly you become mentally ill. Nonsense in my humble opinion, who knows. It`s going to be decided obviously by the courts.
Joey Jackson, criminal defense attorney, to me this is more example of his lucidity. All the planning and buying of the body armor and booby trapping, you have to be lucid to do all this.
JACKSON: You absolutely do. And you know, interestingly enough, Jane, what you articulate and what Seema articulate are going to be exactly what happens in the courtroom. You are going to have a number of experts who are going to evaluate him. I can tell you now the defense experts are going to say he thought he was the joker. He was operating in a plain that was not a human plane. He was outside of his existence. He was crazy.
You`re going to have the prosecution who is going to say, this was premeditated, it was planned, it was well-thought out. in order to do the things he did, he had to be logical, rational and lucid and therefore he`s guilty. Whatever force of view that a jury ultimately believes in is the one that`s going to prevail.
IYER: People do not understand, and Joey Jackson, you know better than this. A psychotic episode is not a day, it`s not an instant, it can be months long. You know better than this. And just because you are buying weapons and you are building a defense that is part of your delusional thinking.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I also --
JACKSON: That`s exactly what`s going to happen in court. 100 percent. The prosecution is going to argue the other way. And Seema has it right on point to what the defense will say here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I must explain why.
Reports are that the ambulances were arriving 24 minutes. First of all, we can`t play Monday morning quarterback, Dr. Brian Russell, but another thing was it was a multiplex, people were screaming out. Twelve people were killed, but 58 injured as they arrived at the theater they were stopping to help people who were walking out covered in blood. That`s one of the reasons why they were slow to get to the actual theater because they ran into so many people who were suffering fleeing the theater.
RUSSELL: Well, that`s right, Jane. And as you eluded --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Jackson`s mother, Katherine Jackson, is finally home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she says she was devastated that a judge yesterday suspended her guardianship over Michael Jackson`s children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was rumored that she had been kidnapped by her children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here`s what she told ABC news regarding where she`s been.
KATHERINE JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S MOTHER: I was still thinking about the children. I still worry about them. But they`re fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now we have new video that appears to show a scuffle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Katherine Jackson actually got a police escort to her home once she arrived in Calabasas after a nine-hour drive with her children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a struggle with Paris and Prince with their uncles Randy, Jermaine and aunts Rebbie and Janet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was this tweet from Michael Jackson`s son accusing the family of lying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is going on in the Jackson family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is going on with the Jackson family?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What the heck is going on here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Jackson`s mom, Katherine returns home to Calabasas. But the war within the family escalates. Now, Michael Jackson`s oldest son is speaking out and causing an uproar online. Who are we to believe?
Look at this from ABC News. It`s new video of the bizarre family portrait where Katherine Jackson delivers a statement in Arizona. This family battle exploded with a scuffle between Michael`s daughter, Paris, and her aunt, famous pop star Janet Jackson.
Paris was upset because she says her grandmother, Katherine, vanished without a trace for days. It turns out Katherine was staying with her daughter Rebbie in Arizona. Paris tweeted up a storm complaining her grandma was missing.
And now her grandma has returned to California. Family members drove her nine hours from Tucson to Calabasas, California. But before she left Arizona she recorded this written statement for ABC. Watch and analyze.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: There are rumors going around about me that I`ve been kidnapped and held against my will. I`m here today to let everybody know that I`m fine and I`m here with my children and my children would never do a thing like that. Holding me against my will is very stupid for people to think that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Katherine says, "No, I was not kidnapped." But not everybody buys that explanation. First of all they look at that, why is she surrounded by all of these family members, some of whom are challenging the will?
Michael`s oldest son Prince Michael unleashed a Twitter tirade -- say that three times -- a Twitter tirade where he said, quote, "My dad had repeatedly warned me of certain people."
Who`s he talking about? Prince also says his grandma was misguided and that she was lied to and he says he is angry and hurt.
So whose side are you on? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Take a look at Katherine here on ABC. How bizarre is this -- reading a scripted statement with her adult kids including Janet Jackson standing right behind her refusing to take questions.
Alan Duke, CNN Wire entertainment editor, you`ve been all over this story talking to all parties involved. What`s the analysis that you have of why these family members -- a lot of people said, wow, this looks odd. Like why didn`t they have her speak alone? It`s almost like they`re watching what she says. Some would say, "Did they script it"?
ALAN DUKE, CNN WIRE ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR: Well, she appeared to be reading at times. And uncertain really of what she was saying. But without questioning the sincerity of it, I would say it`s important to keep in mind that this was after ten days of not talking to anyone who`s on the outside other than those people who are standing around her.
So she doesn`t know about all this controversy. And she doesn`t know about what led to the loss of custody. So when she`s making this statement, she`s making it on a very uninformed basis and reading something that is written, whether she wrote it or someone else wrote it for her.
Now, today was to be the day that she was going to meet with her lawyer. And he was going to explain to her as her representative what happened outside of the spa, especially here in California, while she was away -- all the developments. So she could better understand and better make a decision about what to do.
But that has not happened today. And that`s not good news because until that happens he can`t file the petition to regain custody for her. If he doesn`t do it, the judge is not going to give her custody again. So if Katherine Jackson wants to get those kids back in her custody, she`s going to have to meet with her lawyer. There`s just no way around it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she`s going to have to show that she has her own mind and nobody is talking for her.
Jen Heger, assistant managing editor, RadarOnline, as we show you again from ABC of Katherine Jackson`s very strange statement surrounded by her family. What do you make of it? Give us your analysis?
JEN HEGER, ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR, RADARONLINE: Well, a lot of people have said today that I`ve talked to, people close to her and just fans of Michael Jackson and people that are concerned about Katherine, have said, look, unequivocally this looks like a hostage video. I`m going to take it a step further than Alan Duke did, you know.
You have this Mirror Ball Hotel worker standing there I don`t know for what purpose. You`ve got Janet assisting Katherine while she`s reading the statement. She seems like Alan said, she seems unsure of what she`s saying. She doesn`t really have a grasp of what`s fully going on. She`s holding her daughter, Rebbie`s, hand which is fine. But again, odd that she chooses to make a public statement after ten days.
And at this point yesterday she still had not begun the long drive home. It just looks extremely bizarre and it just adds to more angst and stress in the situation for the people involved.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to Ian Halperin, who knows more about the Jacksons than almost anyone else. He`s the author of "Unmasked, the Final Years of Michael Jackson". What do you make about this battle? What do you make of the fact that a lot of people say it`s all about money. That the people who are on one side are left out of the will -- Janet, Randy, Jermaine -- and the people who are in the will -- Blanket and Prince and Paris and Katherine -- that this is divide and conquer.
IAN HALPERIN, AUTHOR, "UNMASKED": Well, Jane, in the words of Michael Jackson, the King of Pop, he said his family was dysfunctional and extremely greedy. And Michael right now must be rolling over in his grave with this situation going on.
This situation is pathetic because as I told you three years ago, Jane, after Michael died, on your show I questioned the validity of the 2002 will, whether or not there was another will. And I also said that California state authorities should provide a proper child welfare investigation to where these kids should actually go.
And what happened was these kids were put in custody of an 80-year-old woman, everything was a short-term plan. And it`s come to a boil right now, Jane. And the King of Pop would be disgusted because his children are being bandied about, his family`s been dragged through the mud, the estate is making a ton of money.
We need concrete answers. And my sources tonight have told me in the Jackson camp that they are going to challenge what went on in court yesterday and that they are going to mount a legal comeback and try to regain control of the estate and of their children.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes. Again, my question, was it all about money? Yes or no? That`s a yes or no question, Ian?
HALPERIN: 100 percent. Michael Jackson said -- he disassociated himself from the family because they were dysfunctional and greedy. That`s why he left the Jackson 5 after the 1984 Victory Tour.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
HALPERIN: And right now he just -- Michael Jackson -- there has to be justice for him and his children. These children need proper guidance, proper parenting. And we need to get answers sooner than later.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Michael Jackson`s son, Prince is 15 going on 50, made waves today with his tweets. Take a look at this. Prince tweeted this image -- we`re going to show you a screen grab of a group chat on his iPhone. Now, on it he screams, "We demand to speak to my grandma now." This is when Katherine had been out of the picture. Then beneath it, it would appear -- it would appear, no independent confirmation of this but it would appear somebody named Janet Jackson responds, "Please don`t let them. Please." "Don`t let them. Please".
Prince says that his family members didn`t know that he could see their responses. So he was clearly pointing the finger at Janet. I don`t understand why Janet is involved in this?
Jen Heger, this is something I can`t get my mind around. Janet is so successful in her own right. She`s a superstar. She`s got plenty of money. She`s a spokeswoman for various companies. I mean she doesn`t need this money. Why is she involved in this?
HEGER: That`s a very curious question. And I think we need to hear from her directly.
But I got to go back to what Ian was saying about the validity of Michael Jackson`s 2002 will. You know, he had a prior will he drafted in 1997. Let`s just pretend -- like I said yesterday, that the 2002 will is fake; the 1997 will is the exact same as the 2002 will that leaves the children to Katherine, cuts the siblings out and the executor is still John Branca, period.
So this fight that they`re going to wage against the estate to have the will overthrown, good luck with that. It`s going to be a waste of money and they could be -- end up being countersued. This is -- all this is doing is dragging these children through the mud.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More in a second.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to have more on the war between the various members of the Jackson family. You`ve got Michael Jackson`s three children who are heirs to an enormous fortune facing off against Michael Jackson`s adult siblings, at least a handful of them, who say this will is a fraud. More in just a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LA TOYA JACKSON, MICHAEL JACKSON`S SISTER: Yes. I absolutely do believe he was murdered. I truly believe it was a conspiracy. Michael told me that this was going to happen. He told me what was going on. And, yes, I do.
He told me that they were after his catalogue and they will kill him to get it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The irony in all of this is that Latoya Jackson, who you just heard from, was the most vocal during the Michael Jackson`s death trial, the trial of his doctor. She was the most vocal about saying there was a big conspiracy, but she`s the only sibling that is completely not taking a side in this. And I find that fascinating.
Ian Halperin, author of "Unmasked, the Final Years of Michael Jackson", why is Latoya of all people sitting this one out?
HALPERIN: The urging of several Jackson family members, they wanted their petition to be taken extremely serious. And Latoya`s come out with several various sensational claims in the past and they didn`t want to do anything damaging to their potential claim.
I`m telling you right now, Jane, we have not even seen the tip of the iceberg on this case. We`re in year three since Michael Jackson died.
And contrary to what Jen said, I mean she mentioned the 2002 and the prior will, but the rumblings in the Jackson camp are this, after the 2005 trial when Michael`s siblings and his family showed incredible support for him during that trial, there`s rumblings that Michael did another will later on and it still hasn`t been found. And there`s no way that Michael would have wanted them excluded after the immense support they showed him. That`s why the family is just rallying for their rights.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold on. Hold on.
I got to go back to Jen Heger, RadarOnline, what say you -- because there`s plenty of reasons why people dis-include their relatives.
HEGER: Right. This argument is moot and doesn`t stand any ground whatsoever because the statute of limitations under California law to contest the will has expired. Therefore this is done. So even if they were to find something, which they`ve had three years to do, by the way, so I don`t know where they`re going to come up with this mysterious, you know, will that might leave them something, which no one has ever proven otherwise that he had.
It`s a moot point. There`s a statute of limitations. That has expired. End of story. They need a Jackson --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to get to Alan Duke, CNN Wire entertainment editor, what say you?
DUKE: Well, first of all, if Ian is right that they`ve decided that they`re going to challenge the will and just challenge the custody and hire a lawyer to do that that would tell me then Perry Sanders, her current lawyer, will be out.
Let me tell you, if he`s out, I don`t expect that Katherine Jackson will ever get custody of the kids back simply because what Judge Beckloff saw yesterday in these accusations, I don`t think he would allow that to happen. So I think that they`re really risking a lot if they do that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s an amazing story. We`re going to stay all over it.
And up next, a story that you have to see to believe and an extraordinary guest. Stay right there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We asked our viewers to bring us pictures of their fabulous pets, like Webster -- oh my gosh. And Tyson, look at that look. How adorable.
There are so many beautiful animals out there. Check those guys out. They are -- they`re having fun at the beach. I can tell. And these beautiful rabbits, yes, these are nature`s creature.
We`re going to talk about one of nature`s largest creatures next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Newly released video shows how close a SeaWorld trainer came to death when a killer whale he`d worked with for years suddenly turned on him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Kasatka snapped. It was trying to tell her trainer she has unhappy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When SeaWorld captures them and drags them into the Shamu Stadium, they take them away from the most important -- two of the most important aspects of their life, the world of sound and their family. Is that abusive? Is that stressful? Of course it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Shocking video just released to the world of a SeaWorld trainer being attacked by a killer whale. Part of an explosive court case; 5,000-pound whale, Kasatka repeatedly dragging trainer, Ken Peters under the water.
Peters, who worked with Kasatka extensively, managed to escape with only a broken foot. The video filmed back in 2006 was used as evidence in the investigation into the 2010 death of Dawn Brancheau the SeaWorld trainer who drowned after being attacked by another killer whale named Tillikum.
SeaWorld has issued a response to the video of Peters` attack, quote, "This video clearly shows the trainer`s remarkable composure and skilful execution of an emergency plan both of which helped result in a successful outcome with minor injuries. SeaWorld`s trainer returned to work shortly after this incident, and remains a member of the team at Shamu Stadium to this day." Ok. So that`s SeaWorld`s side.
Now we`re going to get the side of the animals -- People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals led by Ingrid Newkirk. Ingrid thank you for joining us tonight. SeaWorld argues their performances are educational. Does that justify having these whales live in captivity, and is it educational in your book?
INGRID NEWKIRK, PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS: Jane, thanks for doing the show. I think world opinion is not on the side of SeaWorld; it`s now on the side of these giant ocean predators. And there is nothing that anybody can do, no matter how well-trained. That`s a bunch of baloney. It`s all in the hands of -- or the flippers or the mouth of that orca. If that orca wants to kill the trainer, they will. And if they want to teach them a lesson, they will.
And this man is so lucky to be alive. He never gets back into the water again with an orca. But unfortunately, of course, other trainers don`t get back in the water because they`re dead. And Dawn Brancheau`s orca, Tilly, who also weighed over 5,000 pounds had killed two people before he killed Dawn. So there`s the lesson.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, those are the allegations of some. I do not have independent confirmation. But on the other side of the break, we`re going to talk about the whales. Should they be in captivity? That is the key issue tonight.
Stay right there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: After the tragic 2010 death of SeaWorld trainer Dawn Brancheau, a judge ruled trainers could no longer be in the water with whales during performances unless they`re separated by a barrier. And the government just rejected SeaWorld`s appeal although the trainers can go in for other reasons.
Ingrid, people are always talking about what`s good for the people. Is it true that what`s good for the people in this case is also good for the whales? In other words, it`s not an either/or situation?
NEWKIRK: It`s absolutely a win for the people and for the kids who have watched trainers die in front of them and will never forget it. And it`s a win for the orcas. If they move these poor animals out of their cement underwater boxes, where they often ram themselves into the wall to try and get out, and move them to coastal sanctuaries, we must not go to SeaWorld and we need to tell everybody stay away. It`s only a money game for them, and we should not buy into it, for the sake of the animals, the sake of the trainers and the sake of the kids.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is it like for a killer whale to be in the confinement that they`re in? How would you compare it, in your opinion, to a human being`s confinement?
NEWKIRK: I think we can put ourselves in their places. If you were forcibly taken away from your family and you watched members of your family killed because they only wanted you, the child, and you were deprived of the ocean and your friends and a life, and put in a cement underwater box, you would be filled with rage and frustration. And that`s what they are. They chew at the cement. They bite at the metal bars. And, in fact, SeaWorld drills down their teeth, because they hurt their teeth so much, trying to get out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We must speak for the animals. They cannot speak for themselves.