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DR. DREW

Sibling Sex; Why Women Have Low Libido

Aired August 8, 2012 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Christina, I have just like 30 seconds. That`s not enough time, is it?

CHRISTINA, CALLER FROM KANSAS: Oh, it could be. I don`t know.

PINSKY: Real quick.

CHRISTINA: How common is it for consensual intercourse between siblings?

PINSKY: Oh, my goodness, my dear. That is -- hold on the line. It`s not consensual. It is a problem. There`s something terribly wrong in that family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Right. Welcome to the program. That was the final call we took last night. It was supposed to be a 20-second call that I would just sort of wrap things up with, but it was more than I could answer in the few seconds I had left.

So, we`re going to re-address that call in just a moment. But, first, a reminder that this is sex and relationship Wednesday. Later, we`re going to have Lisa Vanderpump addressing why married women tend to lose their sex drive. What is that all about?

We`ll talk about that ins and outs of that. Is that really something that does happen? Should it happen? Is it a myth? Is it a reality? Why? Should it be accepted?

Millionaire match maker Patti Stanger is here also. But joining me now also is clinical psychologist, Dr. David Swanson.

And we -- David and I are going to go out and talk to Christine into. We`re going to start with that call.

Christina, let`s start over. Tell me the question.

CHRISTINA: Well, my question is, what`s the clinical and nonclinical percentage of intercourse occurring between siblings?

PINSKY: I`m not sure I understood the question. It`s --

CHRISTINA: I mean, how common is this? Is it even possible?

PINSKY: Relatively rare, but family incest of various types and sexual violence and sexual abuse of children is, unfortunately, relatively common in this country. We`ve seen all kinds of high-profile cases about this.

I`m going to let Dr. Swanson address that, but I also want to get into something that she said yesterday, which was it felt consensual to her, felt like she was in love with her brother.

DAVID SWANSON, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: First of all, in answer to your question, roughly about, I`m going to say, about 16,000 cases are reported of sibling incest every year. You`ve got to realize that not many report this because of the shame affiliated with it. So, for you to come forward, first, I commend you on your bravery because this is a big deal.

The question I have for you is: what prompted the call in the first place?

CHRISTINA: Well, I was watching the DR. DREW show and it kind of popped into my head. This thing that happened between me and my brother, the only way for me and my girlfriend to get past would be to say that it never of happened.

PINSKY: Right. But it did happen and it felt consensual.

CHRISTINA: It did happen.

PINSKY: Now, usually, when something happens like this in a family is because one of the children was sexually abused by an adult.

SWANSON: Exactly.

PINSKY: That`s almost always how it happens, and then that child sibling acts out on another family members, other children very often. I promised probably wasn`t the only child that get acted on it. But that kid was acting out because of an adult perpetrator. You`ve got to keep that in mind.

Now, this issue of feeling it consensual, my friend McKenzie Phillips was saying that she had an abusive situation with her father allegedly and that felt consensual. It really becomes like a Stockholm syndrome for these kids. They adopt the perspective of the victimizer.

SWANSON: Yes.

PINSKY: It feels like love.

SWANSON: Yes, definitely true. Oftentimes, we see this type of abuse that is a serial type of relationship in families. And, you know, this whole process about feeling consensual, there was a reason you made this phone call. There was something in the back of your mind that said, this is not OK, and over years when this starts to happen, over time, we start to feel it`s consensual because we start to desensitize to those feelings that tell us that it`s not OK. And I`m thinking that`s probably what`s going on for you.

PINSKY: Did it feel like love to you, Christina?

CHRISTINA: Well, it`s strange because -- I mean, I have a love for my brother, and it had been so long since I had seen him. I mean, we were both inebriated which didn`t help. I don`t know. It just -- it felt -- it was my choice, is what it felt like.

SWANSON: Do you feel -- as much as it` consensual, is this something that when you think about it feels healthy to you?

CHRISTINA: Well, no. I understand it`s not healthy. I understand it`s not at all in line with what society says we should and shouldn`t do. I understand that.

PINSKY: By the way, Christina, I`m going to stop you. It`s not about society. It`s about what is healthy for child development and a child`s brain. It shatters the child`s ability to regulate.

It changes their sense of themselves. It changes their function in relationships. It changes personality function. It has massive effect.

So, kind of let`s wrap this up, Dr. Swanson, by saying treatment is imperative when someone is through something like this.

SWANSON: Definitely. When kids go through this incest with a family member, a sibling, they deal with anxiety, depression, lower self-esteem.

And, listen, it`s very hard to get close to people when you`re an adult because you don`t think it`s possible. You learn not to trust men. You learn not to trust relationships or give yourself and you feel damaged. So, you feel like the idea of having a healthy relationship is impossible.

What you`re wanting to do at this point -- and I would really advise you to do this and I think you would as well -- is seek out a specialized therapist who deals with --

PINSKY: Sexual trauma.

SWANSON: -- sexual trauma.

PINSKY: Yes.

SWANSON: In particular, the type of therapy you`re looking for is a cognitive behavior type of therapy.

PINSKY: Thank you, Christina. I appreciate it. I`m sorry I couldn`t get this all in last night, but thank you for starting off our program tonight. We`re going to take a couple of more calls before break.

Tina in Minnesota -- Tina.

TINA, CALLER FROM MINNESOTA: Yes. I was also a victim when I was a kid of sexual abuse by my own brother, and until recent years I have had nothing but a lot of trouble with the guys I`ve been with because of it.

PINSKY: Well, you heard Dr. Swanson say that`s inevitable. That`s been my experience dealing with people. This kills me, you know.

It`s much more common -- you said 16,000 people.

SWANSON: Yes, report.

PINSKY: Reported. And, by the way, the same kind of phenomenon happens even if it`s not a family member. It doesn`t have to be a family member to destroy somebody`s ability to trust, tolerate closeness, be in relationships. And people need relationships to be healthy.

So, Tina, do you have a question tonight?

TINA: Well, I also got pregnant by him and had a child because of it.

PINSKY: Wow. Wow.

TINA: But I want to know how far back can I go to press charges since, you know --

PINSKY: I didn`t hear the question, how far back --

TINA: How many years has to go by before I can still file charges?

SWANSON: I don`t know if I would be looking at it from that perspective.

PINSKY: Yes.

SWANSON: I think the main thing is you`re dealing with something that caused you a lot of trauma and so the first part you would want to do is to get in to some type of therapy, typically therapists are mandated by the state in which they practice to report things like this.

PINSKY: It will get reported. They won`t be able to do much but they will accumulate a database if this guy ever does come to law enforcement.

Tina, did you have the child?

TINA: I did. She`s going to be 16 in April. And --

PINSKY: Does she know who the parents are? I mean, does she aware of this?

TINA: No. She`s aware that I was raped and that was it.

SWANSON: Listen, it`s very important when you`re a victim of something like this to speak up and get help. So much of this is perseverated by the fact that we collude in secrecy. We don`t want to damage relationships in the family. We don`t want whatever might come our way, embarrassment, or guilt or shame that also might be exaggerated by this.

It`s so important to take that first step and find somebody you can get into treatment with.

PINSKY: Christina -- Tina, rather, I hope that you have taken the initial part of that first step by calling us and you`ll take our advice to get real help for a long period of time. I suspect the child may need something as well given what you`ve been through. I will just say, a couple --

TINA: She`s adopted, though.

PINSKY: Somebody else is raising her?

TINA: Yes.

PINSKY: Are you in her life at all?

TINA: We send each other letters.

PINSKY: OK. Listen, you are a phenomenal survivor and that`s the one message about people who go through this. I would urge people not to go back and confront the victimizer. It`s usually unsatisfying and dangerous and problematic, not unless you`re working with a professional for some specific reason you`re doing that.

SWANSON: Yes.

PINSKY: And in terms of getting a database, report it so if this person who undoubtedly will continue to do this sort of thing comes to law enforcement, there will be a trail so they can convict.

Tina, I appreciate it. I want to thank Christina also.

I want to thank Dr. Swanson for joining. We`ve missed you. We want you to come back and join us again.

Now, we`re switching gears. We`re going to get into a bunch of other topics tonight.

When it comes to sex, are married women just kind of going through the motions? Do they lose interest? Is it you spent too long with the same person? Is it men`s fault?

"Real housewife" Lisa Vanderpump is here to talking about sex after marriage after the break. Call now to discuss this, 855-DRDREW5.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Welcome back to our sex and relationship Wednesday. The question we`re asking tonight is, why does it seem that so many married women seem to lose interest in sex? Are they losing their sex drive? Are they bored? Are they just phoning it in? And what can the men do about it?

Joining to discuss, my "Loveline" co-host, Simone Bienne, also, clinical professor of obstetrics and gynecology at Northwest University, Dr. Lauren Streicher, and Lisa Vanderpump, star of "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills".

Now, Lisa, I`m going to start with you. You`ve been married almost 30 years.

LISA VANDERPUMP, "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF BEVERY HILLS": Yes, that`s right, this month.

PINSKY: Tings still as hot as the beginning or are things different?

VANDERPUMP: Well, I have to be honest. After 30 years, of course, things changed. I mean, I was 21 when I got married so you don`t expect me to be jumping up and down like 21 year-old. But it`s not like we`ve talked about on "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills," twice a year, Christmas and birthdays.

PINSKY: It`s not that bad.

VANDERPUMP: No, it`s not every year twice a year.

PINSKY: It`s less than that.

VANDERPUMP: No, it`s actually twice this week. You`re going to be very proud of me.

PINSKY: I am proud of you, Lisa. Well done.

VANDERPUMP: Of course things change. I think it would be ridiculous to think things stay the same. I mean -- but you two have to make an effort, I`m being honest. As we go through cycles of life, you`ve got stresses and you`ve got hormonal changes. Of course, there are differences.

PINSKY: All right. So, Lisa, you brought up two very different things. One was stress, and, Simone, in a minute, I`ll have you address that in a moment.

But, Dr. Streicher, she mentioned hormonal changes. That is something we can do something about, is it not?

DR. LAUREN STREICHER, GYNECOLOGIST, NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY: Absolutely. But I think we have to keep in mind that a lot of people blame a change in sex life on hormones. And the truth in the matter is that many cases, that`s not what`s going on. You have to look at the age of the woman. If you`re looking at women who are 35, 40, and they say, you know, check my hormones, I think there`s a problem there, it`s pretty rare that`s the problem.

As women age, 45, 50, 55, hormones really goes up there as one of the primary problems that get in the way of a sex life.

PINSKY: All right. I completely agree with that. Unfortunately, a lot of people don`t contemplate that, they don`t talk to their doctors about it. There are solutions in adjusting the hormones.

But, Simone, stress is the other area for the younger women, and I imagine, child rearing and breast-feeding and working and men being just as they are.

SIMONE BIENNE, DR. DREW`S "LOVELINE" CO-HOST: Yes! Women need to feel appreciated for the most part, and if you have, you know, 20 different types of baby sick on your shoulder, also a woman might not feel so sexy if she`s stressed out and she isn`t getting help around the house and with childrearing. A man -- Drew, you`re looking confused -- may need to understand that a woman needs intimacy to feel caring and sexy.

VANDERPUMP: Yes! I`m with her on that. Happy days make happy nights. Foreplay starts in the morning and it`s still husband`s attitudes towards you. Not just like bend over and (INAUDIBLE) bed room. It isn`t happening.

BIENNE: That`s really interesting, Lisa, because I think it is very much, I want you to want me. Men can feel that as well, but I think women really need that.

PINSKY: Wait a minute, when men want their female partners, they complain, that`s all you ever want. What do you mean that, Simone?

What I love about you two, though, Lisa is, uh-huh, Simone is exactly right.

VANDERPUMP: It`s an English thing.

BIENNE: Yes.

VANDERPUMP: We do like thinking of England sometimes.

BIENNE: Well, that`s interesting because that`s what we`ve been taught in England.

PINSKY: Which is what?

BIENNE: Oh, just lie back and let your husband pleasure you. Think of England and --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Think of England?

Dr. Streicher, I hope you`re aware of these international nuances that we`re learning about tonight.

VANDERPUMP: This is English humor.

PINSKY: Let`s go to some calls. Let`s take a call, see how our viewers want to sort of thin about this.

Gwen in Illinois -- Gwen.

GWEN, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Gwen, what do you got?

GWEN: Dr. Drew, here`s the thing, right? I`ve got all those things - - hormones, bad diet, everything that you have on that list, OK? Child, I have two kids.

So my question is, if you were me, if you were a woman, which one of those things would you tackle first?

PINSKY: OK, what Gwen is mentioning is a list that you see on your screen right now. We have Dr. Streicher mentioned hormones, obviously diet and overall health. Simone mentions stress. We have not talked about mental illness. Well, mental psychiatric conditions like depression or how about medication? And then childrearing and child birth.

So, we`ve got Gwen who`s got all of these things. My advice would be talk to somebody like Dr. Streicher first to make sure there are no medical or hormonal issues?

Would you agree with that Dr. Streicher?

STREICHER: I totally agree with that because the reality is that most women don`t have their own private therapist but everyone has a gynecologist. And when you say which of these should I tackle first? The answer is all of the above, because libido is complex and it is so rarely just one thing.

I`d just put it into three categories. We have hormonal things. We have partner things and then we have life thing and life things is the big category, because that`s when you`re looking at things like medication, medical problems, stress.

So, you really do have to tackle all of them because they all impact. You start with a doctor, whether it`s a gynecologist or an internist. And you start to look at medical things. I can`t tell you how many women have a thyroid problem, diabetes, have heart disease that`s impacting on their ability to even begin to think about having sex.

And then you have to start looking at, what`s your relationship like? What`s your body image like? What`s your life like? You know, if you just lost your job and your husband is having an affair and your kid just came home with a new piercing, you really don`t feel like having sex that night.

PINSKY: Well --

STREICHER: So, it`s all of it together.

PINSKY: I will just disagree with something when Dr. Streicher said libido is complex thing. Let me modify it and say female libido is a complex thing. Male is pretty straightforward. I`m just saying.

So, the next question I`m asking now is would you rather have your iPad in bed than your husband? Call us with your sex questions and problems. Again, the number is 855-373-7395.

And then later on the show, millionaire matchmaker Patti Stanger on a surefire way to ruin a relationship. Don`t go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: All right, welcome back.

Later on, we`ll be talking to millionaire matchmaker Patti Stanger about -- well, how to wreck a relationship, right, Patti? There she is.

But we know one thing, not being into your husband or spouse physically, not such a good thing. We`re talking about that right now, what`s not going on between the sheets. Let`s -- did you want to say something, Lisa, as we`re going to break?

VANDERPUMP: No. I think that, you know, you really have to take responsibility for your own relationship and your own happiness. You can`t kind of put it on somebody else. So, if you need something out of the relationship and you`re not getting it, then switch it up.

PINSKY: Do you think some people just get complacent and bored?

VANDERPUMP: Yes.

PINSKY: They do?

VANDERPUMP: Yes.

PINSKY: If they`re just getting bored and just sort of life is just sort of passing them by and getting complacent, Simone?

BIENNE: Yes, what is libido all about? It is about passion.

PINSKY: Vitality.

BIENNE: Yes. And if you`re bored in the bedroom, my hunch is you`re bored outside of it as well. So you have to do what you were doing at the beginning of the relationship. And I don`t mean that simplistically. I know it is difficult, but things like shaving your legs. Gents, taking a shower, making an effort, buying her flowers, working at it a little bit, please?

PINSKY: Wait, did you blame men or women in that diatribe?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Both. All right. Fair enough.

VANDERPUMP: Familiarity breeds contempt. You have to keep the romance alive. You know, you don`t turn into -- once you get married, you cannot think, OK, now on easy street, absolutely. Keep it going.

BIENNE: Yes, or else you go cheat.

PINSKY: Let`s take a call. Becky in California -- Becky.

BECKY, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, I`m in Orange County. Hi, nice to talk to you.

PINSKY: Thanks, Becky.

BECKY: My husband and I have had wonderful sex. In fact, we`ve had our levels checked and I take bio identicals, he takes testosterone shots and everything.

PINSKY: Yes.

BECKY: He was doing wonderful, but then he wasn`t feeling good, went to the doctor and got medicine for diabetes and suddenly he`s got E.D. and I am dying here. I`m wanting to have sex so much.

PINSKY: Becky, hold on. Hold on. You`ve just been through a whole series of complicated biological.

So, Becky is on bio identicals, and, Dr. Streicher, why don`t you explain what that is?

STREICHER: Well, basically, bio identical hormones is a phrase which refers to estrogen, progestin, testosterone that are primarily plant derived and very similar to the hormones what we make in our own body but that women don`t make as much after menopause.

And I think that`s so important, that people do avoid sex because maybe they`re bored or there`s relationship issues or stress. But sometimes they avoid it because it truly just hurts. The changes at menopause cause dryness that in turn are going to cause a lot of libido, because people don`t want to do something that hurts.

And I think it`s important to talk to your doctor because there are a lot of things that can be done to make intimacy and sex more pleasurable. And sometimes it`s hormonal. Sometimes it`s the right lubricant. Sometimes it`s the long acting moisturizer.

But you need to talk about things that physically are going to make it better, as well as addressing he intimacy issues and all the psychological things and stress that everyone is talking about.

But I think the caller mentioned that her husband had erectile dysfunction in spite of taking testosterone. One thing people don`t realize is the number one cause for erectile dysfunction in this country is cardiovascular disease.

PINSKY: Yes. It is the earliest sign of heart disease.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: What she said is he has diabetes and he has erectile dysfunction from neuropathy and hyperglycemia. But indeed, it`s an important point for anyone out there who has E.D. First thing, get on a trend mill, get a cardiac stress.

Vanessa, North Carolina -- Vanessa.

VANESSA, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hey, I`m a military wife, and I`ve been married for 4 1/2 years and I`m 23. So you are talking about over 30, but I have no sex drive at all.

PINSKY: Simone -- well, Lisa`s shocked. Simone, have at it.

BIENNE: Often, if we don`t have a sex drive from an early age it can come because of emotional trauma, it can come because we don`t love ourselves. And I would recommend going to see somebody because you can often get a treatment plan and sort it out.

PINSKY: At that age, unlikely to be biologically. She`s a military wife, she may miss her husband, she maybe depressed.

I`ve got to go to break.

Next, the millionaire matchmaker is giving free advice on how not to ruin a relationship. Call us at 855-DRDREW5.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: She is known as the millionaire matchmaker, Patti Stanger`s no-nonsense approach to love and relationships has led to a hit TV show, a book and new Web site, Pattiknows.com.

All right. Patti, thank you for joining us, by the way. Good to see you again.

PATTI STANGER, MILLIONAIRE MATCHMAKER: No problem.

PINSKY: What is the number one question on that Web site?

STANGER: Where do I find the guy or the girl? The guy is the hardest thing to find in a lot of cities, like New York City, where the women outnumber the men. So, you got to find a matchmaking math, if you want a millionaire, you go to a steakhouse. If you want just your average Joe, you`re going to go to a sports park.

But you`ve got to go where the men go. And most women don`t do that. They go to the bar.

PINSKY: And the guys, do they behave like somebody who`s -- for whom the market favors them?

STANGER: Of course.

PINSKY: They behave like animals.

STANGER: They behave like zoo animals. I mean, caged animals --

PINSKY: They don`t disappoint.

STANGER: No. Men are pretty simple. You show up with the goods, and they comply. I mean, it`s really -- it`s not a brain surgery thing here, but most girls make it really complicated.

PINSKY: Oh, well, that I`ve noticed. Women try to make men much more complicated.

STANGER: It`s simple.

PINSKY: So, how does it work again?

STANGER: Well, you see them.

PINSKY: Show up with the goods.

STANGER: You show up with the goods, you feed them and then you comply.

PINSKY: Now, what -- you also I guess on your Web site have the seven habits that ruin relationships. Could we put those up? Is there any way we can do that? There they are. The seven - number seven.

STANGER: I know.

PINSKY: OK. Why did you put that as number seven?

STANGER: We were building to sex.

PINSKY: I see.

STANGER: And most --

PINSKY: You don`t want to give it up at the beginning.

STANGER: No. I`ve got to bring in the reader here.

PINSKY: I see.

STANGER: OK. But most people give up - give up, you know sex. They skip sex. They don`t make it important. In the beginning it`s all about getting nookie anytime you can. And then about I`d say four to five in --

PINSKY: That`s what we were talking about in the last segment, people get bored, people are getting complacent.

STANGER: And they do the same routine with sex, turn the lights out, brush your teeth, put in your retainer whatever. And do the same position every night. And then you don`t make it exciting so then it becomes the dirty little chore. And most women don`t like that.

PINSKY: And I think once you and I had an argument about pornography and sex.

STANGER: OK. I like it. You thought I was nuts. I told you that`s what Spartacus is for.

PINSKY: Spartacus is porn?

STANGER: Oh, my God, have you seen that show? Rent it. One night with your wife.

PINSKY: As usual, when I talk to a woman, I have to define my term. When you were saying pornography, I wasn`t thinking Spartacus. Forgive me.

STANGER: It`s full-frontal -- you know, we can`t talk it around CNN. But this frontal, you know what. And the men are gorgeous. But in porn, most times, the porn women are beautiful than men, they are not so much. They need to put better men in those roles.

PINSKY: There`s porn made for women now.

STANGER: Yes. But is too self. I want to see story. I want to get right to the posh.

PINSKY: You want the sense.

STANGER: Yes, the money shots.

PINSKY: You bring the goods. I like those.

STANGER: Right.

PINSKY: OK. Rhonda in California. Rhonda, you have a question for us?

RHONDA, CALLER, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Hi, Rhonda.

RHONDA: Firs, I want to say thank you for all you do every day to help you.

PINSKY: Pleasure. Thank you.

RHONDA: Patti, my question is for you. My ticker`s broken. How do I fix it? It`s been this way my whole life and I can`t seem to get attached.

STANGER: I would think that would be one of the number one problems. If a woman has a problematic relationship with a problematic dad, that breaks the picker. That`s a way to get a broken picker.

STANGER: Well, I have a problematic dad. Alcoholic. I talked about this many times in the past. You have to get therapy. You have to get a great therapist who you can really rely on and you`ve got to look for role models of men that treat women right and go for them. And sometimes he`s not a 10. He`s a seven or an eight.

PINSKY: But they`re always not a 10. Rhonda, I would bet you`re not attracted to guy that`s are available.

STANGER: Correct.

PINSKY: Is that right?

RHONDA: probably that`s true. But my dad was the perfect model example of what you would want in a man, and his relationship with my mom was ideal.

STANGER: Maybe the bar`s too high.

RHONDA: I don`t know.

STANGER: The bar is too high. So, when you see couples that have married 50, 60 years and their children have all of this pressure to find that perfect man, nobody lives up to that expectation.

PINSKY: That`s interesting.

STANGER: So then you have to go into therapy and say, what five non- negotiable do I want and call it a day. You`re not getting more than that. You got to be realistic in your expectations.

PINSKY: The other thing, if you have a broken picker and you find yourself you`re only attracted to guys not so nice, not so good and you go with guys that are sort of not so exciting, it`s hard then to be passionate with them.

STANGER: Well, that`s the thing. Exciting spontaneous which out you on edge and never know what you`re feeling and on the roller coaster ride, which feels like drugs. It`s the drug relationship. It doesn`t have to be drinking. You still get a love addiction, which you`re the expert on.

PINSKY: Very interesting. Lisa in Texas, Lisa.

LISA, CALLER, TEXAS: Hi, Dr. Drew. Thank you for taking my call.

PINSKY: Patti Stanger, very interesting. She has some good advice. I don`t know about the porn thing and Spartacus, but I`m just saying. OK, what`s up, Lisa?

LISA: I`m a 47-year-old widow. I was widowed at 42, my husband killed by a drunk driver.

PINSKY: My God.

STANGER: It`s horrible.

LISA: And I`m having trouble finding a quality man, or any man for that matter, once I open my mouth and say I`m a widow. What`s the best way to go about that?

STANGER: First of all, have you tried bereavement classes? Because a good friend of mine`s parents met in bereavement class and it`s a really interesting concept. If you don`t meet the guy or girl you`ll end up with, they know people. So, you need to insulate yourself in a circle of people that accept you for being a widow and knowing that you are not looking to replace your husband. You are looking for the next great chapters in your life.

PINSKY: Do you think guys recoil from women that who have been widowed?

STANGER: Well, I actually dated a widower and I got nervous that I could not live up to the expectation of the ex. Because he has this fantasy. They were married in the 20s and I think she died at 30 from breast cancer. So, I was like, my God. This is like a martyr situation. You know, she`s like mother Teresa to me.

LISA: I was thinking that I was, you know, the traumatic event actually that turned them off not thinking that maybe ---

STANGER: Well, is she dwelling on the--

PINSKY: If you`re coming in with a lot of emotional material that make it`s difficult for people to sort of carry you, it would be tough. Because I do you still feel like you`re having a lot of depression?

LISA: Sure.

PINSKY: Yes. So, maybe it`s that they`re recoiling from. Maybe - and again, the same advice applies. Get that taken care of.

STANGER: Another way to do this is that I recommend the (INAUDIBLE) exercise, your endorphins will start to flow, that depression will start to lift. You start to feel better about yourself. And you need to become the author and director of the next chapter of your movie. Which means, you need to create, what do I want now? You may have things in your husband who died that were not wonderful.

PINSKY: Of course.

STANGER: You know, dwell on what you really want in the new guy. And then he`ll show up. He always shows up. They always do when you`re ready.

LISA: you think?

STANGER: You`re going to meet him. I have a good feeling on you.

LISA: I have hope.

PINSKY: Thank you for your call. We do, too. You sound great.

Kim in California. Kim?

KIM, CALLER, CALIFORNIA: Yes. Hello, Dr. Drew. My question is actually the reverse. I have a very high libido. I`m a very vivacious sexy 52-year-old. I keep it interesting. I keep it adventuresome. I`ve been married ten years and my husband no longer wants to have sex. And I`m doing everything and we`ve talked and it`s this and that. And I`m now to the point where either will I`m going to take a lover or get divorced.

PINSKY: Oh, Kim! Come on now. Let`s give him a break. How about sending him to his doctor. We talked about sending women to doctor to get their hormones adjusted if they are post menopausal. Men, if they get older, their testosterone levels drop.

That one call we had, we need to address the details. But her husband on testosterone replacement, that might kick-start him back to action.

KIM: Yes, but the only way to get him down is get a rope around his neck and tie him to the back of the car and drag him to the doctor.

PINSKY: OK. Hey listen, that`s what it ache takes to get any man to the doctor, Kim. That`s not just about sex. That`s just getting a guy to a doctor. The number one reason men show up at the doctor? Their wife or girlfriend makes an appointment for them.

KIM: I didn`t know that.

STANGER: Have you tried seducing him?

PINSKY: Any of these male cameramen go to the doctor on their own? You do.

STANGER: Have you tried seducing him at all?

KIM: I do it all, had hon. I mean, you`re talking about stilettos in a white shirt with sitting in the garage when he opens the door with the "basic instinct" view.

STANGER: OK. So, you are too aggressive.

PINSKY: Yes. guys become like (INAUDIBLE) a little bit.

KIM: Then I do the placating, you know, ravish me. I`m at my wit`s end.

PINSKY: OK. You got the right. This is a perfect call for you, Patti.

STANGER: Now, this is where you have to -- OK, so here comes the psychic spy here, OK. You basically have to play it like you`re not interested in him anymore and read you know, "fifty shades of grey," read romance novels, get your mind out of it and don`t focus on him. And give it about 30 days to make a habit or make a habit. See what happens in 30 days then call Dr. Drew back. Because I have a weird feeling it is all going to shift in 30 days.

PINSKY: Well, I think that`s excellent advice because men withdraw if they feel an energy coming at them. But, I do think that a guy in his 50s, how old is he?

KIM: He`s 57.

PINSKY: Fifty seven. So he`s getting up there.

KIM: A young 57.

PINSKY: You`re good. He`s the one I`m worried about. We`ve got to get his testosterone levels checked, make sure he has some other medical problems. He maybe get a cardiac screen on him. Because you have cardiac disease can show up like this. Then once he`s cleared, then Patti`s strategy.

KIM: So, taking a lover is a wrong tact.

STANGER: No. You`re just going to create more drama you are not going to want to deal with. It`s terrible to have drama in your life.

PINSKY: Do not cheat. Do not cheat.

STANGER: Cheating is not the answer.

PINSKY: Cheating is never the answer.

KIM: I`m not going to cheat. I told him to his face, I`m going to take a lover if I don`t have sex.

STANGER: But that`s a threat.

PINSKY: Kim, I get it.

STANGER: So get a vibrator. I can say that on CNN, right?

PINSKY: Yes, you can. Ladies, we`re spiraling out of control. Host here got to take control of the show again. I`ve got to go to a break. And we are coming up next with Patti`s rules for finding love after 40.

Kim, you may want - well, it`s for single people but stay with us. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I am back with millionaire matchmaker Patti Stanger. And Patti has three rules for finding love after 40. Here we go, number one - can we put up the screen, there you go. Number one, accepting baggage.

STANGER: Yes.

PINSKY: So, that means like children and --

STANGER: Yes, children --

PINSKY: Illness?

STANGER: Illness. It could be anything from maybe their job is not as great. Maybe they`re retired. Maybe for instance, like a lot of times women get into relationships with men and they talk about their exes, which they are not supposed to, but men kind of compulsive, they want you to know they`re getting good stock. So, they have to talk about their dating more stories.

PINSKY: OK. I still like make it feel like they have been --

STANGER: Yes. But don`t discount the guy like you know. because he doesn`t mean anything by that.

PINSKY: The other one is be aggressive. You want woman to be aggressive.

STANGER: Well, I mean, if aggressive means to get out there. it doesn`t mean to go out and you know catch your man and take him home.

PINSKY: And then, number three is - what do you mean by ignore his birthday? When his birthday comes on, you don`t tell him happy birthday?

STANGER: Well, it means ignore his age. I`m dating someone eight years younger and sometimes you date someone eight years older. Don`t be such an ageist which is the biggest problem is have on my show. All the men are ageists.

PINSKY: All right. Let`s take a call. Anthony in Missouri. Anthony, are you there?

ANTHONY, CALLER, MISSOURI: Yes, I am.

PINSKY: Yes. what`s going on? Patti Stanger here.

ANTHONY: Well, hi Patti, how are you this evening?

STANGER: Sexy voice.

ANTHONY: Well, thank you. You know something, Patti, I did want to say one thing about what you were saying about -- first of all, at the age of 40, the one thing I think is, you can find love at 20, you can find love at 40, you can find love at 50. It doesn`t matter as long as you still learn or know how to live life, you will be able to find love.

PINSKY: Well, and yes, and Patti said, too, also have a sense of who you want to meet and that kind of person will show up.

STANGER: Hey, greatest couple I ever fix a great expectation was 82 years old. And you know they went out to a bang until they passed away. And love can happen at any age.

PINSKY: Brenda in Washington -- Brenda?

BRENDA, CALLER, WASHINGTON: Hi, Dr. Drew. How are you?

BRENDA: Good, Brenda. What`s going on?

BRENDA: Well, question for Patti. I`m 41, I have three kids and I`ve justified pretty much over the last ten years of being divorced that they need my full priority and my full attention. So I`ve kind of been out of the dating scene and sporadically dated now and then.

PINSKY: I bet that is very, very common.

STANGER: Very common.

BRENDA: Yes. So now that I`m kind of back out there, feeling better about where I`m at in life, I`m wondering, how do I -- I`ve kind of set some expectations, and I think I`ve set them too high maybe.

STANGER: What`s your expectations?

BRENDA: Well, that somebody has a job.

STANGER: Oh, that`s too high? That`s not too high.

PINSKY: That`s good.

STANGER: That`s normal.

BRENDA: But you know, just that.

PINSKY: Does he have to be an Abercrombie model?

BRENDA: No. But I do have things that I look for in a man as far as looks are concerned.

PINSKY: OK.

BRENDA: I want somebody to be funny. There`s just a laundry list of things I would like to have in a man. But I feel like maybe I`ve set my standards too high and I don`t know if I`m just setting them too --

PINSKY: Brenda, I`m reading something into your call. How does a woman know if she`s set your standards too high?

STANGER: Well, when the list is 100 things long.

PINSKY: No. But she is saying, I think, I don`t know, I`m not meeting the right guy. Do I have to win, you know, you have to adjust that list?

STANGER: Well, when you have to adjust that is when, you know, nobody is showing up that`s not even in your ballpark, you know. If you`re looking for, you know, Brad Pitt, he doesn`t exist. There`s one Brad Pitt. So, I think what people need is five non-negotiable and call it a day.

PINSKY: Such as?

STANGER: Well, I mean, job means someone financially secure.

PINSKY: OK.

STANGER: OK. Someone who puts her first maybe. Maybe in the past relationships they didn`t put her first. Someone who accepts her children. You want someone who is going to say I love to be a great stepdad. Maybe he doesn`t have kids and this is something he`s always wanted. And then there`s religion, there`s like where you`re going to live, what the future is going to be like.

PINSKY: Got to be non-negotiable. Stick with those.

STANGER: That shows how serious things you cannot - they are deal- breakers, basically.

Kathy in Connecticut - Kathy.

KATHY, CALLER, CONNECTICUT: Hi, Dr. Drew. I just wanted to say definitely, yes, I`m a late bloomer. I fell in love and married my soul mate at the age of 41.

PINSKY: Good for you.

KATHY: We had two children at ages 43 and 46, natural births.

PINSKY: Wow!

KATHY: No hormones.

PINSKY: Wow.

KATHY: And we`re coming up on our tenth year anniversary and we still treat each other like newlyweds.

STANGER: Oh, I love these stories. These are the stories you have to perpetuate forward to say it happened to her. It can happen to me.

PINSKY: Kathy, thank you for that call. And Patti, thank you.

STANGER: Thank you for having me.

PINSKY: The web site is it`s - yes, we are going - we will see you again, don`t worry. Pattiknows.com and a new season of bravo`s "the millionaire matchmaker" will debuts in January. Again, pattiknows.com.

Now, it`s time for HLN election coverage "our country votes."

Here`s the topic that has you buzzing on facebook.

If you`re a female, listen to this, under the age of 26, in 2014 you can be covered by your parents` medical insurance. However, it`s another story if you get pregnant. Are you concerned?

Kat posts on facebook, I`m sorry, but if you`re worried that your parents won`t be covering your insurance for your pregnancy, maybe you should not be having a kid.

I think - and maybe that`s what the government is telling us by putting this law in place in this fashion.

And then Melanie writes. While I don`t feel you have to be married to have a child, I think you should at least have a clear and reasonable idea that raising children are very expensive. Medical bills are just a small portion you`ll end p spending on one child from birth to age 18.

I completely agree with that. I think the message to everybody is keep an eye on this, maybe you shouldn`t be living at home. If you`re having a child living at home, but be aware of these changes as they approach on what the insurance will or will not covered if you`re a woman and pregnant.

Stay tuned to HLN as we cover "our country votes." We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: We are jumping off our Wednesday relationship topics for just a minute here and talking about some news of the day.

Tonight, the FBI reports that the Sikh temple shooter did not die at the hands of police but rather shot himself in the head. So does this say anything new about him? Does it change the way we view this guy and the crime?

Again, taking calls at 855-Dr. Drew-5.

Joining me to discuss, criminal defense attorney Mark Eirglarsh.

So Mark, to start out here, when you heard that this guy effectively committed suicide, did that change your view of this guy or the crime?

MARK EIRGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it was the only teeny shed of positivity in a sea of negativity. I went thank God. We don`t have to put him through a trial. The poor people of Wisconsin don`t have to carry the burden of what would be millions of dollars of a trial, which invariably they`d be seeking the death penalty. The appeals and that process, the fact we`d have to watch his evil rants, I`m just so glad there is finality and he`s not on this earth.

PINSKY: The fact that this was or appears to have been a suicide - you know, I`ve been calling this guy a bad guy and I believe I`m right in saying so. But does it suggest or would a defense attorney begin thinking about an overlay of mental illness? And if they were pleas, would there have please of insanity if this guy survived?

EIRGLARSH: Well, here`s the good news. When there`s - you know, in first-degree murder charge, you don`t have to prove motive. Because a only he knows or maybe he doesn`t know why he did this. And you know what? I don`t care at this point. I guess you do want to analyze because maybe there`s a chance of preventing this. I don`t think so.

I think that there`s people like this with defects in character who are going to do things because of a myriad of reasons. In this instance, I think he shot himself because he was just plain selfish. He knew it was either life in prison or death and he chose to take himself out.

PINSKY: Yes. I think it`s really something interesting. There are bad people. There are people with defects of character. And that is no longer psychiatric. I mean I knew the guy in Aurora had a predominant psychiatric issue, but there appeared to have been some defects in character there, too, that may come to haunt that guy in his case.

I`ve got to take a quick break here, Mark. So stay with me. The good news tonight is the hero cop who survived nine gunshot wounds but told other officers to go in and rescue the others in the temple is recovering and he took his first steps today at the hospital. There he is.

Heroes and villains, we are discussing, as well as anything else on your mind. Call us with your thoughts, 855-Dr. Drew-5. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Mark Eirglarsh is still with me and we are talking about the heroes and villains that emerged at the temple shooting.

Now, Mark, I think you`ve been saying that perhaps the term "hero" is tossed around a bit much. I think that cop is a hero. What do you think?

EIRGLARSH: I agree. You know, we throw around "hero" to describe people who make the winning basketball shot or score the winning touchdown. This to me is heroic. The people inside that church, their goal in life was to lead an exemplary life, an exemplary existence. This guy showed me through his bravery and courage that`s what he was doing.

PINSKY: Blair in Texas, you have a question?

BLAIR, CALLER, TEXAS: Yes. I got question. Why in the world would this guy be able to do a shooting? And was he possessed at the time of the shooting? That`s what I was wanting to know.

PINSKY: I would say so far no one`s ever documented a possession, per se, but there are people who appear that way. My mike is of me. This guy had chronic problems with mental illness and behavior problem. And Mark, we were talking it a defect of character, correct?

EIRGLARSH: It`s a term I use. It`s very general, yes.

PINSKY: Well, you know. Tell people understand how that`s different from a psychiatric issue.

EIRGLARSH: Well, look, defect in character to me could include a psychiatric issue. It`s just that general term that somebody may not be mentally ill but has problems. They`re ego-driven. They`re self-centered. They`re, as you say, bad people doing bad things. I just use that term in general for describing people who do things that are just abhorrent.

PINSKY: I agree with you, Mark. And I would say also, people with mental illness can also be bad, and I would say, and I`ve said this before on this show, if people have an illness, that`s not their responsibility but if they refuse manage it and refuse treatment, that`s on them.

Mark, I thank you all. Thank you for being with us tonight, Mark. Thank you to my guests. Thank you to my callers. I will see you all tomorrow night. And thanks for watching.

Nancy Grace starts right now.

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