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Domestic Violence; Pregnant Man`s Divorce Drama

Aired August 14, 2012 - 21:00   ET



OPERATOR: 911, what is your emergency?

NEIGHBOR: Yes, I have somebody here at my house that was in a little domestic dispute with their husband. He hit her with his head. If we can, let`s not make a big scene about it until the police get here.

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): That was a newly released 911 tape of a neighbor calling police after football player Chad Johnson and his wife, TV reality star Evelyn Lozada, allegedly had a physical fight. We covered this story last night and the response was overwhelming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was important that you get out of dangerous situation and someone doesn`t have to hit you for you to be abused.

PINSKY: It`s an epidemic and a vicious cycle that must be broken.

And the world`s first pregnant man wants to divorce his wife but the judge won`t let him. His reaction, he is here and he`ll tell us.


PINSKY: But first, we`re going to go back to that 911 call placed by Evelyn Lozada`s neighbor after her husband, Chad Johnson, allegedly head- butted her, causing a large gash in her forehead. There are many new developments in this case.

Here to give us the latest, senior "Radar Online" reporter, Alexis Tereszcuk and attorney Gloria Allred.

Alexis, first I`m going to go to you and give us that update. What`s the latest?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, SENIOR REPORTER, RADARONLINE: So, Dr. Drew, we`ve learned Evelyn is actually planning on filing for divorce from Chad. She`s going to do it in the next 48 hours. She`s not going to tolerate this.

PINSKY: So, their wedding didn`t last as long as Kim Kardashian`s?

TERESZCUK: No, not at all. Didn`t. And she`s getting out of it. And hopefully her divorce wouldn`t take as long as Kim`s did.

PINSKY: Will it be an annulment?


TERESZCUK: I don`t know, maybe Gloria would know.

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, it really depends. I don`t know what she is going to be seeking. An annulment is as though the marriage never happened.

PINSKY: So if she wants money, it becomes a divorce?

ALLRED: Well, I don`t know. I -- we`ll have to se what her role is.

PINSKY: OK. What else, Alexis? What else you got?

TERESZCUK: So, this is a big move for Evelyn. She`s been -- she finally gave a statement. She said, you know, domestic violence is not a joke. I`m not taking it lightly and I hope that he seeks the help that I believe he deserves.

So, she is saying this happened to me. I want him to stop.

PINSKY: Is she giving any hints what it is that he -- what kind of help he needs? We have somebody with a substance problem? We have somebody who`s bipolar like we are talking about, who`s becoming agitate, irritable? Or we have someone with domestic violence issue?

TERESZCUK: All she said in her statement was about domestic violence. So, she didn`t say anything else. There haven`t been other indications of substance abuse problems but she`s just saying that he needs to get help for this.

PINSKY: Gloria, I look at this case, she has a history of being rather volatile herself. Let`s say for the sake of argument there was some violence initiated on her part and then he became extremely violent. Does that change the case at all?

ALLRED: Well, it depends what she did. As it turns out, she is not charged with a crime, he is charged with a misdemeanor. So, that means the police have made an assessment, Dr. Drew, that he is the one who should be charged because he is the one that committed the violent act.

Reportedly, she found a receipt for condoms and was upset and wondered why he would have that kind of receipt. Even if she confronted him on that, he cannot respond in a violent way.

PINSKY: Right.

ALLRED: If, in fact, he took her head and head butted it and caused that gash to her forehead, that is violence and I`m glad there are criminal consequences for it.

PINSKY: I`m surprised it`s just a misdemeanor, frankly. I mean, that -- when you said that, it sort of struck my ear, a misdemeanor if you gash someone`s head open?

ALLRED: Well, he is charged with simple battery. Generally, if a person inflicts violence on another person that causes permanent injury, that could be a felony.

PINSKY: I see.

ALLRED: In other words, it could be battery --


PINSKY: How about disfigurement? She is on television. She is on television, it affects her appearance it is gash on her forehead. Isn`t that kind of an important thing?

ALLRED: Well, I often have discussions with prosecutors over why they are charging a misdemeanor instead of a felony. Felony, of course is the most serious kind of crime. It`s one that would carry, if upon conviction, more than one year in jail. Misdemeanor would carry less than a year in jail.

And generally, for a first-time offender, they get probation or they get credit for any kind of time served. So, yes, I think there need to be serious consequences for violence against women. That`s the only way we are going to stop that violence. That, and of course, therapy.

PINSKY: I`m understanding that he had some treatment for anger management, which by the way, I am not sure that does much of anything for domestic violence. I have never seen that anger management, per se. And yet here we are with a violent perpetrator yet again. Is the only way the legal system?

ALLRED: Well, I think there can be other consequences as well. Apparently he`s been cut from the Miami Dolphins, although the coach said he wasn`t trying to send a message. Now, the reality show apparently is placed on hold or is canceled. So, there can be economic consequences as well as legal consequences. And I think had the more consequences, the better, to send a message to the batter, if, in fact, that`s what he is, that there are going to be serious consequences if you continue to inflict violence.

PINSKY: OK. I need to listen carefully, read a statement issued by Chad Johnson`s wife, Evelyn. It says "I`m deeply disappointed that Chad has failed to take responsibility for his actions and made false accusations against me. It is my sincere hope that he seeks the help he needs to overcome his troubles. Domestic violence is not OK and hopefully, my taking a stand will help encourage other women to break their silence as well."

And I think that`s very powerful and courageous statement there at the end. I`m interested to know, maybe her people will come forward and tell us what it is what kind of help he needs because does he have mental illness is? What is the deal here?

My also understanding, Alexis, is that another woman surfaced who claimed to have been having an affair with him during their engagement?

TERESZCUK: We actually spoke with this woman. She said she met him on Twitter in January, went to his home in Boston. He used to play for the New England Patriots .

And she said he was on the phone with Evelyn that night, he told her that he wanted to order a pizza, asked Evelyn to pay for the pizza, which she did. I said, I don`t know, is this woman a fiancee? Is she a secretary? She didn`t know.

But she told us she had sex with him that very first night. They continued an affair for about five months, until May. She said it was infrequent. She would follow Evelyn on Twitter and find out when Evelyn was out of town and then she and Chad would get together.

And then she said at the end of their relationship, he locked her out of the house, he told her to come over one night. She went over, knocked on the door, he was playing Xbox, she could hear inside and he wouldn`t let her in.

When she left, he sent her a note and said, "I`m not your boyfriend. Leave me alone. Don`t talk to me the way you are" and she said she was really heartbroken. She thought she was more to Chad than she really was.

ALLRED: At least he is talking you and not hitting in that instance. And that`s important.

PINSKY: But still being abusive, exploitive if, in fact, that happened. I`ve got to point out that HLN/CNN cannot independently corroborate what`s been reported at "Radar". That`s where you publish it, "Radar"?


PINSKY: A quick call from Veronica in Connecticut. Veronica, you had a comment or question?


PINSKY: Veronica.

VERONICA: I stayed in an abusive marriage for over nine years and I managed to get out of that get therapy and was by myself for quite a while. And now, here I sit today in another abusive relationship.

PINSKY: Oh, yes, well, that`s the cycle. You got what we call, Veronica, a broken picker, which is maybe you didn`t stay in therapy long enough or maybe you need to stay in therapy until you established a relationship with someone so you have something to bounce off of your judgments. But when you tend to be attracted to a certain kind of person, the one thing you know, is if you are attracted to that guy, you shouldn`t go out with him.

When we have pickers like that, I mean, somebody that pick bad people, they are perfect. They never miss. That`s why you have to avoid that.

Next up, a man who knows firsthand what it means to be involved in domestic violence. He is going to speak out.

And later, more turmoil for the so-called pregnant man. Find out what is at stake after the break.



NEIGHBOR: We`re worried that he is going to come and get upset and I just want to, you know, and I want the police to come with their lights on. But I just want them to come until everyone calms down.

OPERATOR: OK. Was it physical or verbal?

NEIGHBOR: No, she`s got a put cut on her forehead.

OPERATOR: Does she need a paramedic?

NEIGHBOR: She is probably going to need stitches, yes.


PINSKY: I got to tell you something, if you witness domestic violence, don`t worry about how the police get there, get them there. These things can lead to severe violence and fatalities.

Here are sobering statistics. One out of four women are potential victims of domestic violence in their lifetime. If you are a victim, if you know an abuser or have any relation with one, the issue is getting help and getting it now.

Joining me is anti-abuse activist, Kevin Powell.

Kevin, you apparently had a personal experience involving domestic violence that changed your life. Tell me about that incident.

KEVIN POWELL, ANTI-ABUSE ACTIVIST: Well, back in the summer of 1991, I was a very young man, young writer in New York City and I pushed a girlfriend into a bathroom door. And you know, the reality is that if it wasn`t for people in my life at that time, mostly men who challenged me and said, one, I need to get help, which meant therapy, and, two, take ownership for my actions, and three, really looked at where I learned that behavior, that violence the solution for any kind of conflict or disagreement, you know, I wasn`t going to make any progress.

And so when I see this all these years later in the work that I do in New York City and around the country, over and over again, we as males, older men and younger men, of all different cultural and racial backgrounds, have engaged in behavior that is often destructive to women and girls. And even with this Chad Johnson situation, if you look at Twitter over the last few days, you know, you have all these jokes about it, how we as men should ocho that h-o-e. So, we are making light of a situation that is serious.

As you said, Dr. Drew, one out of four women in this country, globally, you`re talking about one out of three women, or 1 billion women are the victims of some form of violence at the hands of males. And this is unacceptable at this point.

PINSKY: One billion women, Gloria. I mean, it`s incredible.

ALLRED: Right. And I think that the legal system is inadequate, doesn`t deal with it seriously. For example, in many places if a person beats a dog and hurts a dog, they will get a much more serious sentence than if they beat a woman.

PINSKY: Is that the United States?

ALLRED: Yes, in the United States. So I`m saying it`s important, of course, not to inflict violence on animals but also important not to inflict violence on women. And until the laws started recognizing that women need protection from violence and batters need to be held accountable and have consequences serious inflicted on them, this cycle of violence is going to continue and I commend Kevin for trying to do something about it.

PINSKY: Well, I also, too. And, Kevin, we talk about this topic a loot but help understand how you go from where you were to where you are. What is that process like? It`s hard for me as a physician to describe it. Maybe you, as somebody who has been through it, can help people understand, how it works, how long it takes and really how much intensive work it would take for somebody like Chad Johnson.

POWELL: Any man who is engaged in any form of violence, therapy, years and years of therapy, in my case, you are talking two decades worth of therapy to deal with the process of where I got these definitions of manhood from, because oftentimes, we are taught that masculinity is about domination and violence and competition and ego. We are taught that women and girl are not our equals, which I respectfully disagree with at this stage in my life.

And, you know, there is a pass, you see people joking about it, oh, you know, she deserved it.

And what I say to men and boys all the time, even if a woman says something to you that don`t like, you know, you should walk away with the situation. Violence is not a solution. I`ve actually dealt with a situation, Dr. Drew, where, you know, I`ve had women say they have had to sleep with guns and knives under their pillows because they are fearful that their partners, their intimate partners or their husbands are going to murder them. We are talking about women are the wives and partners of ministers, of rabbis.

PINSKY: Yes. Right.

And I would say, Kevin -- here is what I would point out, hey, dads out there, dads who are being violent, those are your daughters, those are your daughters sleeping with the pistols under their pillow because of the role that you played in their life teaching them what a man does to women. It`s not OK. That is what I call one of the gifts that keep on giving, right, Kevin?

POWELL: It`s completely unacceptable t is a vicious cycle and it`s not going to end.

And, you know, you ask what do we do? Violence against women and girls is not going to end until men and boys play an active role in helping it to end, which mean that we as men and boys have got to talk about it amongst ourselves.

What is a man? What does it mean to be a man? Why is it OK to engage in behavior, be it some of the crazy music we hear out there, the videos, some of the things we see in popular culture, some of the things we see in our own families and communities and basically OK it by saying nothing at all.

And I would say to men and boys, silence is agreement, even if you are not the kind of male whoever puts his hands on a woman or a girl, but you have people around you, in your family, in your fraternity, in your religious institution, any where, and you say nothing about it, on your sports team, you become just as guilty.

ALLRED: Kevin, I was going to say -- excuse me for interrupting you.

POWELL: Yes. That`s fine.

ALLRED: Men need to treat women as equal partners and they have to recognize what Dr. Drew was just pointing out which is the woman that you`re hitting, the woman that you`re hurting, is somebody`s daughter and that could be your daughter as well.

PINSKY: And if your little girl witnesses you doing that, it will be your daughter.

Catherine in South Carolina -- Catherine, you got a point for us?

CALLER, CALLER FROM SOUTH CAROLINA: Yes. I think domestic violence is wrong all the way around. I have been there three years and now, I`m married now to my husband of seven years come yesterday. And not one time has he ever laid a hand on me, anything. And I see, you know, they say it`s always the woman -- the man, but guess what sometimes the woman, she needs to wake up, too. Don`t provoke the man because --

PINSKY: Catherine, I`m going to interrupt --

POWELL: Can I say something to that?

PINSKY: I will have you say that Kevin. Let me first say, I don`t care what you do it is no excuse for the violence, number one. I don`t care how provocative you are, number one.

But women can be violent, too, and they can be perpetrators of domestic violence. Let`s not be Pollyanna about it. These women can also.

Kevin, your comment?

POWELL: Well, two things. One, out of the domestic violence in our country, 85 percent to 90 percent are men as the perpetrators against women. So, we need to be clear that most of the cases are women victimized by men.

PINSKY: Yes, for sure.

POWELL: The second thing I would say, you alluded to it, Dr. Drew, earlier, you look at Evelyn on this reality TV show she was on, you know, it`s clear that you know in our country, we have got an issue around relationships between women and men that is very, very destructive and explosive at this point.

So the challenge I put out there to men and women is why would you want to engage in any kind of relationship that is dysfunctional, unhealthy, where screaming, cursing, yelling, becomes normalized, always lead to some form of violence, I believe, because they are saying this is acceptable behavior how we relate to each other.

ALLRED: And, Kevin, I would say as the American Psychiatric Association has said, male chauvinism is a psychiatric illness and I think that it is dangerous to a woman`s health, emotionally and physically.

PINSKY: Hear, hear. Alexis, thank you. Gloria, thank you. Kevin, thank you for joining us.

Next up, I`m going to given a update on Reverend Jesse Jackson`s son`s medical issues.

And ahead beyond that, Thomas Beatie, known as the pregnant man wants a divorce. But an Arizona court says not so fast. Not so fast. I`m not sure you`re married. I`m not sure you`re a man.

We`re going to give you an update on all that.


PINSKY: After months of secrecy and speculation it has been confirmed that Illinois Representative Jesse Jackson Jr. is being treated for bipolar II.

Gloria Allred is still with me. And joining us is clinical psychiatrist, Dr. Dale Archer.

Dr. Archer, let`s define for folks the difference between bipolar I and bipolar II.

DR. DALE ARCHER, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: Well, there are really types of bipolar disorder. Number one is psychothymic , that`s mild. Bipolar II is medium, bipolar I is severe.

And when you think about bipolar disorder, the average person imagines bipolar I that`s really the wild, crazy, psychotic individual that we picture when we hear the term bipolar. There is a vast difference between the three.

PINSKY: For instance, I believe Catherine Zeta-Jones came forward publicly and talked about having bipolar II disorder and really, Dr. Archer, what we are talking about is swings between episodes of rather severe depression, where people have trouble functioning, and relatively inflated periods of mood where they had a lot of vitality and can become hyper-verbal and feel like they can do lots of things but don`t become psychotic.

ARCHER: Correct. Bipolar II is a mood swing disorder, and depressions can be mild, moderate or severe also. The key is the so-called manic episodes.

Bipolar II, these are more high-energy episodes, outgoing, very friendly, talkative. Again, not psychotic. Not to the point where you cannot function.

And most of these folks do not need medication.

PINSKY: Gloria, why do you think they have gone to such lengths to hide this? It`s just a basic medical problem. I have been on the position saying we should -- what difference does it make if he has a thyroid condition or an ulcer disease or bipolar. It`s all medical who cares? Let the guy get his medical treatment and go back to work?

ALLRED: But, Dr. Drew, you are more enlighten and a lot of people are a lot of people still have a stigma associated mental health problems experienced by somebody in their family and that is a shame.

And I think we need to bring mental health issues out of the closet and let people know it`s just another type of condition. A lot of conditions can be taken care of or controlled or managed with medication.


ALLRED: There`s nothing to be ashamed of. I want to add my first husband also suffered from bipolar. Unfortunately, he had a very severe kind and apparently didn`t take his medication, ended up committing suicide many years after I was divorced from him.

PINSKY: My goodness.

ALLRED: But it has repercussions not only for the person, not only for the career but also for the family.

And so everyone has a stake in understanding this type of illness and these gradations.

PINSKY: But what`s important, from my perspective, he had a medical condition and it was fatal -- not a flaw in his character, not a bad person, a brain disorder that was fatal.

Dr. Archer, a quick question about gastric bypass, now some people with bipolar can be brittle. Do you think the gastric by pass that Jessie Jackson Jr. might have exacerbated his bipolar condition or I`m concerned about substances, because people after gastric bypass, alcohol gets in their system, for instance it can really get to their brain quickly and trigger things that I wouldn`t have otherwise been triggered?

ARCHER: Yes, I think you`re right. It could be either/or. On the first case, if you do have a condition, you have off gastric bypass procedure then the medications may not be absorbed as well. So you could actually be taking the exact same meds for your problem but they wouldn`t be get nothing your system and not treating you.

By the same token, gastric bypass is a surgery. It is stressful. And if you are on the edge of a psychiatric condition, that increased stress can tip you over.

PINSKY: And by stress, meaning both the biological stress and the emotional stress and all that goes into having surgery like that.

Thank you, Dr. Archer.

And thank you, Gloria, for staying with me. I really do appreciate it.

Next up, Thomas Beatie known as the pregnant man on his struggle to get a divorce. Stay with us.



PINSKY (voice-over): Pregnant man. That`s how the headlines referred to Thomas Beatie who became a media sensation when he got pregnant and gave birth to three kids. He and his wife, Nancy, have split and he blames Nancy`s addiction. Thomas got full custody of the kids but he says he can`t get a divorce yet because the judge isn`t sure the marriage is valid or even that Thomas is a man or a woman. The judge overseeing the couple`s divorce proceedings is blocking the way, questioning whether the marriage is even valid, and ultimately, whether Beatie is truly male or female.


PINSKY: We will also have an update on the disturbing video of Thomas Beatie`s estranged wife. There`s a piece of it right there.

Now, Thomas is here with me today. He`s also with his attorney, David Cantor.

Thomas, now, my understanding is, legally, you are male. But you feel this judge is questioning your gender?

THOMAS BEATIE, WORLD`S FIRST PREGNANT MAN: Yes. I`m fully recognized as legally male through my driver`s license, Social Security index, passport, birth certificate. And in Hawaii, I married Nancy as husband and wife.

PINSKY: So, what is all this about? I`m confused.

BEATIE: I`m confused as well. You know, unfortunately, it`s not better circumstances. I`m going through a divorce with Nancy, and in the 11th hour, the judge is now questioning whether or not this case is within jurisdiction, whether or not he wants to even grant us a divorce.

PINSKY: This gets kind of mind bending a little bit. If you want to remarry, could you remarry in Arizona or would they give you trouble about that, too?

BEATIE: That`s an excellent question, because I do have a girlfriend, and she`s anxiously awaiting my divorce so that we can get married. So, I think possibly it might be polygamy. That might be a good question for David.

PINSKY: So again, Thomas, so you have a girlfriend. And how does she feel about -- you know, obviously one must wonder, how does she deal with this? What kind of relationship is that? How does it work? So, give my viewers sort of an update on how you guys found each other, how she feels about your gender identity, and how she feels about these legal struggles.

BEATIE: Wow. Well, she`s extremely supportive. The kids love her to death. I`ve been with her for quite a few months now. And she`s been extremely supportive of me. I didn`t expect this process to take so long, and you know, going through divorce is always difficult, but I`m just trying to start a new life and hopefully with her.

PINSKY: OK. Now, I want to speak to your attorney, David Cantor. David, your client was legally married, man and woman in the state of Hawaii, right? So, Hawaii recognizes this marriage. How come Hawaii can`t divorce the marriage?

DAVID CANTOR, THOMAS BEATIE`S ATTORNEY: Well, Thomas could get a divorce in Hawaii, but he`d have to move back to Hawaii for three months which his wife would not allow due to the custody. Whether they`re married or not, there`s a legal adoption. So, she has some say in whether he`d move with the kids or without the kids.

Secondly, after he waits 90 days, once he files for divorce, it could take another minimum of two months so he`d be without his kids for five full months. He is an Arizona resident. He deserves to be allowed to get his divorce in Arizona and so is Nancy. She`s also an Arizona resident.

PINSKY: Now, we asked Maricopa superior court for a statement. A representative told us they have none. They are waiting for additional documents from Thomas Beatie and his attorney. David, what are they talking about? What kind of documents do they have to get?

CANTOR: We`ve already filed our brief on July 30th. And, in fact, Nancy`s attorney also filed, concurring with our opinion that this is a valid marriage, therefore, there can be a valid divorce. So, I`m not sure if they hadn`t seen those documents yet, but I`m not sure what they`re talking about with additional documentation.

PINSKY: Let me go to some calls if you guys don`t mint. Let`s talk to Shelia in Illinois -- Sheila.

SHELIA, ILLINOIS: Hello, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Sheila.

SHELIA: Nice to talk to you.

PINSKY: You, too.

SHELIA: Thanks for taking my call. I guess, my whole -- the first thing that comes to my mind is if you bear children and you menstruate and you are -- have a -- you`re a woman. And so, I think I tend to agree with Arizona in -- in this rare instance, if I might add, that Thomas should be considered a woman.

I mean, he was born a woman. He`s chosen to give birth. And so, I don`t see the -- if you want to have your cake that you should be able to eat it, too.

PINSKY: I find that was humorous that you agree with Arizona in this one instance that`s kind of comical. But Thomas, let me go to you and I`ll have Mr. Cantor also comment on this. We`re confusing biology and legal definitions here a bit. That`s what`s so difficult about this, no?

BEATIE: It is, and for the state of Hawaii as well as the state of Arizona. I did everything required of me to get a legal sex change. And it does not include sterilization. So, under the full law, I`m still legally recognized as man.

PINSKY: Mr. Cantor, you have anything further to add to that?

CANTOR: Absolutely. If the statute - the statute is what governs for jurisdiction and if the statute states that if you have a full mastectomy, have hormone treatment, and have a doctor sign of that it`s a sex change operation, a licensed doctor, the state then issued a new birth certificate, driver`s license, Social Security, passport.

And think about it, a passport, that involves national security. And the federal government said it is OK. In addition, Thomas has filed bankruptcy papers in the past as man and woman or husband and wife. The adoption papers recognized husband and wife or man and woman. And that`s how the law reads.

PINSKY: And it seems like the law is more attached to the notion of gender, because that would be a way of saying it?

CANTOR: Well, I think they specifically did not put in a requirement for sterilization. And I believe the legislature, the legislative intent was so that somebody could foreseeably change their mind and either gender back or still have the ability to have children.

Now, that also includes if there were functioning, let`s say, testicles that hadn`t receded or that had receded that they had could withdraw sperm from a person that was now a female in the eyes of the law, yet, still have sperm. So, they`ve left it to where sterilization is not mandatory for a sex change operation.

PINSKY: Another call from Ethan in California. Ethan, you had a comment?

ETHAN, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Thank you for taking my call. In response to the last segment, you just did. The fact of the matter is, Arizona recognized the divorce. This is a divorce in court recognized, as the attorney said, between a man and a woman. So, if Arizona is going to recognize the divorce, they have to recognize Mr. Beatie`s gender as being male.

That`s the legal gender that Mr. Beatie`s recognized in the divorce, which again, which recognized in Arizona state court. So, if they`re going to recognize that divorce legally, they also have to recognize the gender that Mr. Beatie was assigned by the court as well. So, for the previous caller to say that Arizona is right in there (ph), it`s wrong, at least looking at this logic.

PINSKY: You guys agree?

CANTOR: Well, technically, the judge did recognize and was going to move forward with the divorce once he recognized the temporary order. Then, he back pedaled and said wait a second, I don`t know if I can recognize it I have questions. So, technically, he has now reversed his own opinion and he`s put it on hold until we could brief the issue which we`ve given to him, and he will rule some time after August 30th.

PINSKY: David, thank you for joining us.

Next up, I want to review some troubling video that Thomas shared with us about his estranged wife, there it is there. We`re going to talk about their relationship and how she is doing, when we come back.



BEATIE: What`s the problem, Nancy? How many pills did you take? You`re on the phone with people and you`re slurring and you didn`t make any sense.


PINSKY: That is video of Thomas Beatie`s estranged wife, Nancy. Thomas -- now, Thomas, himself, is of course, famously known as the pregnant man. He gave birth to their three children but is now seeking a divorce because he is alleging, Nancy addicted to alcohol and prescription pills. Thomas, how is Nancy doing today?

BEATIE: She`s doing a lot better. She is in the drug court system, so she gets randomly tested twice a week, and she is pulling off negative urinary analysis. So, things are looking up.

PINSKY: Is she in the program? Is she doing 12-step? What is she doing actively to help herself?

BEATIE: She is required to go to meetings. I think it`s about a 12- month program, and she`s already completed a couple of months. She`s in the first stage. And then the judge -- the drug court judge is going to assess her progress and then probably be more lenient with parenting time and, you know, hopefully, Nancy is getting on the straight narrow.

PINSKY: Do you feel better about her visiting with the kids now?

BEATIE: I do. The kids do miss her. She enjoys time with the children. And I`m looking forward to her being a healthy parent again.

PINSKY: We have a statement from Nancy`s attorney. He writes, in part, "Nancy has been sober for over six months. Despite her progress, Mr. Beatie continues to block Nancy`s efforts to see the children. It`s time to move forward and think about the needs of the minor children."

Which, I think you`ve just said though, that you`re more enthusiastic about her visitation and are interested in moving forward.

BEATIE: I`m not sure what Nancy`s attorney is talking about. I have -- I`m definitely eager to have her see the children and to speak with the children every single day.

PINSKY: Great. Let`s talk to a caller. Angel in Texas. Angel, you had something to say?

ANGEL, TEXAS: Yes. Something I`m not understanding is, Thomas went through all the legal things to do to become a man. He got married almost ten years ago, and it was determined legal between a man and a woman. So, how can Arizona even bring up something in the divorce matters because they shouldn`t have nothing to do with the divorce if they have already been determined legal?

PINSKY: You know, Tom, I almost need a blackboard to figure this one out, because there are gender and sexual issues as well as legal and marital. It`s very -- and interstate questions. It`s very complicated. But how would you answer Angel? Go ahead. Try to give her an answer.

BEATIE: Well, I`m not quite sure why the judge is doing this in the 11th hour. I mean, I -- it was difficult enough getting married and then starting a family. I didn`t foresee that I would have problems going through an unfortunate divorce, but it is what it is, and hopefully, you know, we can resolve this and I can start a new life.

CANTOR: And Dr. Drew, if I can answer that. Basically, Arizona will not recognize a marriage, for example, if there`s a same-sex marriage out of Massachusetts or somewhere else where they allow same-sex marriage. They don`t automatically recognize that in Arizona or they won`t recognize a marriage in another country, say, where somebody marries a 12-year-old.

In this case, the judge is confused thinking that this is a same-sex marriage rather than a transgender marriage. And that`s what the problem is. Thomas is in a traditional marriage, a man and a woman. Yes, he used to be a woman. Now he`s a man. That should be the end of the argument.

But because sterilization was not mandatory, this is where everyone`s confused and the difference between the law and the dictionary definition of man and woman.

PINSKY: Got it. Thomas, how old are you --

BEATIE: Yes, this is --

PINSKY: Thomas, how old are your kids now?

BEATIE: They are two, three, and four.

PINSKY: Have you started -- do you discuss with them gender and sex issues or is that something you plan to discuss with them? Tell me, how do you approach that with your kids?

BEATIE: Well, they pick up things at school where they go to. They go to day care. And they come home talking about pink is for girls and blue is for boys. So, that discussion has already started and I try to urge them that color is just color and color is for everyone. Susan does know that she came from me, physically, from my body, and she knows her brothers came that way, too. So, yes, I`ve started the discussion.

PINSKY: It`s going to be interesting. It`s hard enough to explain these things to kids and anxiety-provoking enough for parents. Again, you may want to carry around a dry-erase board or something? It gets very challenging. Let`s talk to Melissa in New Mexico very quickly -- Melissa.

MELISSA, NEW MEXICO: Yes. Hi. I`ve gone through some similar of mine (ph). I found out -- I`ve been married. And my husband, after 34 years, was told by his family that he was born with both parts, but they had to make a decision back then because --

PINSKY: Melissa, Melissa, that has nothing to do -- that is what`s called ambiguous genitalia that has nothing to do with gender or sexual identity. It is strictly an issue of the external genitalia. What the doctors do is they test the genetics and whichever the genetics are, they adjust the external genitalia. It has nothing to do with the sex of the individual, OK? You understand that?

MELISSA: Yes. But his child was taken from him because they did not want the child to find out and because of the child being humiliated in school, they had to keep it that way, and he lost his child. He can`t be around his child, and he never knew this all these years. And now, you find out, it`s messing our relationship up, the family. It`s been a big secret. He never knew about. They`re saying it`s normal, but if it was normal, why did they keep it so quiet? And now --

PINSKY: That`s a family`s choice. I don`t recommend that, certainly, for these very reasons that you`re contending with right now. People get very confused about these things. Thomas, thank you for joining us. I do appreciate it.

Next up, any topic you guys like to address, taking your calls, after this.


PINSKY: We are going back to the phone lines. Kelly in California -- Kelly.


PINSKY: Kelly.

KELLY: I`m turning 50, and I`m working on significant weight loss. I`ve lost 80 pounds in the last 24 months.

PINSKY: Congratulations. That`s fantastic.

KELLY: Thanks. I only have 200 more to go.

PINSKY: Oh, my goodness.

KELLY: Yes. I said significant. I have a solid plan which includes like no soda, sugar processed carbohydrates in my home.


KELLY: Organic sustainable --

PINSKY: Real foods, real foods. Fruits and vegetables. That kind of thing. Good.

KELLY: Exactly. However, when emotionally triggered, I obsess and I`m -- I sabotage my success. Grocery stores kind of over stimulate me.


KELLY: And to me, the kind of like a liquor store or a bar would be to an alcoholic.

PINSKY: Totally get it. Have you thought about going to OA, Overeaters Anonymous?

KELLY: You know, unfortunately, where I live, that doesn`t exist. I live in a very rural community. And, we really don`t have OA here.

PINSKY: Why don`t you see if there are any online resources? I know OA has got a lot of sort of tentacles that they try to reach people through. There might be online even meetings out there. I don`t know if there are or not, but I would definitely go to their websites and see what they`ve got. The other thing is do you have a trauma history?

KELLY: Yes, significant.

PINSKY: Yes. Was that ever treated?

KELLY: Yes and no. I`ve been in talk therapy on and off for ten years. But you know, kind of in-touched on but not really.

PINSKY: OK. Because I`ll tell you what, the one thing that I think gets missed in the discussion of obesity in this country is how trauma figures into it. You know, people are traumatized, it shatters their brain`s ability to regulate and one of the things that happen is exactly what you`re describing, people get triggered to reach outside of themselves to manage their internal states if that makes sense.

KELLY: It does.

PINSKY: Yes. And that`s what you`re doing. Sometimes, there can be specific trauma-based treatments, things like EMDR, bodily-based treatments, emotionally focused therapist. So, I would just encourage that.

I mean, I think you`d have -- you`ll have better relationships, you`ll feel better in your own skin and you`ll have much more success with the management of the diet and all. But in the meantime, I think the thing to do is just go to the OA online and see what they`ve got for you there. Maureen in Ontario. Maureen, you`ve got something?

MAUREEN, ONTARIO: I want to know your thoughts on subtle suicide.

PINSKY: Subtle suicide. What do you mean by that?

MAUREEN: Somebody who doesn`t take care of themselves in the hopes that they will, in fact, die.

PINSKY: So, passive suicide. So, somebody who wishes they would just die. That`s sort of thing. Is that right?


PINSKY: Are we talking about you?


PINSKY: Have you been treated for depression in the past?

MAUREEN: For over 30 years.

PINSKY: OK. Maureen, what I`m going to do is take a quick break. I want you to hang in there and we will talk about this. We`re discussing really a severe, severe depression. I`ll be right back.


PINSKY: All right. Now, welcome back. We were talking to Maureen before the break. And Maureen, you were telling me you have severe, severe depression, decades of duration, and now, you have what we call passive suicidality, just kind of giving up. Is that right?


PINSKY: Are you on -- have you been thoroughly treated?

MAUREEN: I have been treated for many, many years, and I have found that I`ve never been successful with treatments.

PINSKY: OK. I`m going to suggest something that`s going to raise some eyebrow, and I bet it`s been suggested to you before, which is anyone ever suggested electroconvulsive therapy for you?

MAUREEN: No. Although, I have heard of it, but I --

PINSKY: OK. I bring it up only because it`s not what it used to be. It`s not like one flew over the cuckoo`s nest. People are asleep and it (INAUDIBLE) is running through their skull that raises the chemicals in the brain when medication don`t adequately do so. And it can be very effective and it can save people`s lives when they get into a state like you`re in.

When people -- I would never, of course, recommend this for somebody who`d been depressed for a couple of years and had some suicidal thinking, but you`ve been 30 years and you want to die. It might be worth thinking about aggressive measures like that.

There are even implantable devices now, electrical stimulation devices to try to raise those brain chemicals, for whatever reason, my dear, genetics, life experience, they are now depleted in you. And it`s something to go to the map for (ph) because your life is worth it and you would do it with any other medical condition. That`s what kills me.

And depression is a medical condition. We`ve talked about bipolar earlier. Depression is just another one of those mood disturbances, a brain disorder, and it`s a medical thing, and it should have a treatment. You should expect adequate care. Please look into this.

MAUREEN: Thank you.

PINSKY: Zack in Pennsylvania. Zack, real quick, what do you got?

ZACK, PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. My psychiatrist of (INAUDIBLE) years died. (INAUDIBLE)

PINSKY: Oh, Zack, you`re fading in and out, my friend. I heard you say your psychiatrist of 17 years died and I imagine that is tremendously just stressful to you. Those relationships with clinicians can be extremely intimate in the sense that they`re very close and they can be the models for other relationships in your life.

I mean, ideally that`s what that relationship should be. So, sometimes when a clinician dies or retires, it is really just as impactful as if any other important relationship in your life has ended. You must mourn it and you must find support getting through it. Now, in this case, I would hope, probably was sudden, I guess, that you get recommendations for ongoing care, that you got to pick up and start again.

Get -- you had the capacity to build a relationship with this individual. The fact is you have capacity to do so and you should do so again. Flexibility, adapt ability, these are key ingredients into emotional health and well being. I suggest what you do is you find another clinician. You either find a psychologist or a -- and let me do a quick thing on psychologist and psychiatrists, by the way.

Psychiatrists are MDs, physicians. Many of them don`t do therapy anymore. They just sort of do a lot of prescribing. That`s all we have as physicians is we have medication, we have a knife, and we have our relationship. The MDs tend to use medication, medical model more than anything. The psychologists, which are PhDs or PsyDs, will do the more therapeutic approaches.

Also, they`re MFTs. There are various ways people can be trained to do psychotherapy, but psychologist, PsyD, probably where you want to go giving the experience you`ve had.

Thank you all for calling. Thank you, guys, for watching. Thank you, of course, to my guests tonight. And thank you for watching. And a note, Nancy Grace begins right now.