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DR. DREW

Holmes: `I Am Bad News`; Interview with Wendy Williams

Aired August 27, 2012 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, new and disturbing insight into the mind of Aurora shooting suspect, James Holmes. Were clues ignored that might have saved lives?

According to a published report, he told a fellow student in March that he wanted to kill people. A few weeks before the shooting, he apparently texted, "Stay away from me. I am bad news."

And politicians with daddy issues. Some of the most powerful leaders have fathers that just were not around. This might be precisely what motivated them to become so successful.

And later, Wendy Williams like you have never seen her before -- her life, her personal story.

And of course, hot topic, Rihanna and Chris, Kim and Kanye, Prince Harry`s hard luck, and how you doing daytime diva takes your calls live with me, 855-DRDREW5.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: But first, we`re going to update the Aurora story.

Thank you for joining us.

I`ve got attorney and legal affairs commentator Areva Martin and Dr. Justin Frank, psychiatrist and psychoanalyst.

Dr. Frank, I`m going to go to you first.

James Holmes in a "New York Times" article is quoted as having indicated he wanted to kill, and he was suspicious, and he was asked questions about possibly having had something called dysphoric mania. Tell us about that.

DR. JUSTIN FRANK, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, first of all, good evening, Dr. Drew. I think that dysphoric mania is a much more common diagnosis than it used to be. And the reason it`s called dysphoric is doesn`t feel the typical mania, which is euphoric. Meaning, they are happy, they`re excited, they spend money.

Dysphoric people are angry, enraged. They have moods that are actually -- you can`t even communicate with them. You can`t -- it`s very hard to talk somebody who is in the midst of a dysphoric manic experience, you can`t even talk them down. And they require medication and psychotherapy.

PINSKY: Dr. Frank, the fact that --

FRANK: May have had that. Somebody may have that.

PINSKY: Yes, I agree with you.

And the fact that he can`t be talked down is what I find interesting here. Do you think there`s -- and how -- I`m -- when people are in manic state, particularly dysphoric mania, it`s hard to go through the world from weeks and weeks or even months, that is guy did. Do you think there`s any possibility -- let me ask you this, before you respond to that -- that he was told he had -- this is a bright kid who had neuropsychiatric training. Do you think they told him he had schizophrenia and he was looking for an alternative diagnosis?

FRANK: That`s -- anything is possible. And he is a bright kid. Maybe he was -- schizophrenia for most people who are young do experience schizophrenia as a curse. I mean, it`s a one-way street. So, at least manic bipolar illness is much more treatable.

But dysphoric mania, usually the dysphoric phase is pretty brief. It`s a rage phase that doesn`t last nearly as long as the euphoric mania phases do.

So, it could be that he had brief moments. But he was clearly planning to do t it.

PINSKY: Right.

We are tossing around terms. I want to make sure our audience understands. Dysphoria means unhappiness, sadness, depressed people are dysphoric. And that`s what disconnected here in manic phases, people are usually very, very high, but this is their high and low at the same time, very, very uncomfortable.

But they don`t stay in it for months or weeks at a time, this guy was planning stuff. That`s why I just got to question that diagnosis. Did we learn anything from that article in "New York Times" this week that let us -- let you to believe that an opportunity was missed?

AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Well, I think we learned that there are more clues than perhaps we know early on. We are hearing from neighbors. We`re hearing from students that attended the university with Holmes, we`re really not, you know, learning a lot what was going on with him educationally or medically because the judge hasn`t ruled on whether those records can be released.

We have the defense lawyers arguing that the educational records are protected by a federal law that protects your education records, and that the hospital or the doctor records from the psychiatrist are protected by the -- you know, the patient client privilege.

So, we`re not really getting to the heart of what I think this case is really going to be about.

PINSKY: Doesn`t the fact this crime was so horrific and included murder, doesn`t that call into question the propriety of maintaining those kinds of privilege?

MARTIN: I think we`re going to hear lots of arguments about that but these laws are in place for a reason, to protect the privacy of individuals. And just because there`s a murder and a murder trial going to be going on doesn`t mean you lose all of those rights. The judge is going to have to make a tough call because we know we are expecting an insanity plea from the defense if they are going to argue guilty by -- not reason of insanity, guilty but insane.

So, it`s going to call into question the medical requests, have requests for expert analysis and expert examination of this guy. So, we`re going to start to see -- we are not going to get around those records at some point. The question is when is the judge going to allow the public to know what was going on with whoms?

PINSKY: OK. Areva and Dr. Frank, we`re going to take a couple calls here.

Rhonda in Florida -- Rhonda, what do you got for us?

RHONDA, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Well, my husband just lost his job this past week or was put on administrative leave because he told his boss that years ago, he saw a therapist because he wanted to kill people.

PINSKY: Oh, that`s interesting. Dr. Frank, do you have an opinion about that?

FRANK: I think it is outrageous he lost his job, first of all. He was an honest man who told his boss this and it was years ago. I really think that there`s such a stigma still about people in psychotherapy, people who are seeking help. I mean it is a serious problem and terrible that he lost his job.

(CROSSTALK)

FRANK: It makes me really angry, too. Before about --

PINSKY: Go ahead, Areva.

FRANK: Go ahead.

MARTIN: In this case, the doctor reported at least to the police on campus that there was some concerns about the health of Holmes.

PINSKY: I think that doctor is going to be exonerated. I think she did everything right.

MARTIN: What do you do with that information?

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: Even if you gave it to the city police, are they going to follow him 24/7?

PINSKY: No, the police had the same restrictions the psychiatrist did. He wasn`t saying enough to put him on a hold. They couldn`t put him in jail. They could just go, OK, dually noted. We`ll watch him.

MARTIN: Think about the resources that would be required if reports are given to the police about all the people that have plans or are talking about perhaps killing someone. Now, in this case, we wish someone would have intervened because the outcome has been so horrific.

But, you know, practically, what do you do in these cases? It`s a very difficult case.

PINSKY: This makes me furious that we are stigmatizing people who have had symptoms of mental illness, who are now well and sharing the fact that they are well and once had symptoms. That, I would think is a major legal problem.

Another call, Jon -- Jon in California.

FRANK: Totally infuriating.

PINSKY: I`m with you Dr. Frank. Jon?

JON, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Going on the same conversation that you had -- so, what can authorities do for a hypothetical threat? Someone I knew wanted to kill somebody and if I called the authorities what can the authorities actually do about that?

PINSKY: Dr. Frank, you sure a psychiatrist put in this position once in a while. Tell them how you do that.

FRANK: I have been in this position, but the laws have really changed. In the `70s, there was a law in California, I think it was called the Terra Soft law, where if you were a psychiatrist and you had a patient that you suspected was dangerous or a threat, you could make a report about it. And it was not a violation of confidentiality.

For me, at some point, we have an obligation also to the community you can not just to the parent confidentiality. So, as a psychiatrist, I feel very could be obligated to the community, too. If I have a patient who looks like he is really going to blow his top, I`m going to try to get him in the hospital, hospitalize him.

If I feel that he is really murderous, I would hospitalize him even against his will by calling a policeman and having him committed. You can hold somebody in the hospital, for instance in D.C. for 48 hours. It is not very long. It used to be 96. At least you can get started.

I have no idea what he said to the therapist he was with. The other thing was he withdrew from school, apparently, right around the time she made the report. So, there was no way to really follow it up with proper authorities.

PINSKY: Dr. Frank, I`m going to have you hold for a second. You`re going to stay with us and talk about politicians and some of the childhood experiences that maybe they share in common.

Areva, take me home with this, I`ve got about 30 seconds. Go.

MARTIN: The key here, Dr. Drew, is help. And what we learned from this report today there were some signs and some things going on with Holmes that hopefully would have led someone to get this young man help. It didn`t happen, so now we have this horrific shooting happening.

You know, got to stay tuned on this case. We`re going to hear a lot more what is going to happen legally.

PINSKY: Trust your instincts, guy, keep, persevere. Stay tuned. I have the one and only daytime diva, is that a term?

I`ve got Wendy Williams here. She`s going to be taking your calls. There she is.

Again, we`re also taking your calls about politicians and their history and what leads people to be so motivated to go into calls like that. Our number is 855-373-7395.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your father wasn`t really in your life, that`s kind of like me, my parents were divorced.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But how do you think your life would have been different if he would have been there for you?

OBAMA: He was sort of arrogant and kind of overbearing. And he had his own problems and his own issues.

So, my mother always used to say that if he had been around, I probably would have been having a lot of arguments with him all the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: So, isn`t that interesting? And with the Republican National Convention are going -- coming just in a few days, we were thinking how are we going to cover this? I`m not really -- you don`t want to hear my political views and I don`t really want to get into that part of the Republican National Convention, I want to get into the politician and their lives and who they are and what makes them tick. Really, what`s that all about?

And what you find is people that make good politicians tend to have a lot of family trauma. And one thing we have uncovered is that there tends to be a lot of issues with dad and absentee dads. This there`s I`m sure other issues as well.

But let me start, Dr. Frank. And start with President Obama and his father. That tape was a little bit revealing, wasn`t it? So --

FRANK: Very revealing.

PINSKY: Yes, go right ahead. Go right ahead with that.

FRANK: No, go ahead with your question. It is fine.

PINSKY: In order for somebody to be a hyper achiever, there`s got to be something creating that engine, doesn`t there? It`s not just the politics, it`s also achievement in politics.

And trauma is one of those things that gets people`s engines going.

FRANK: Yes, I think trauma does. But I really think the person who helped him become a hyper achiever is much more his mother than his father. She really studied with him. She woke him up at 4:00 in the morning and she kept his father, an image of his father very much alive in his mind.

I wrote a book called "Obama on the Couch", that essentially goes through the entire history of his childhood and talks about this but what`s interesting about the particular quote you had is that he said he probably would have -- his mother said they would have had a lot of arguments. One thing that happens when your father is absent, especially when you are a young child is you don`t learn how to manage your own aggression. You don`t always even recognize it.

So, I think it would have been nice for him to have had a father where he could have had some arguments.

PINSKY: Are other politicians that have a similar history in your -- in your note?

FRANK: Well, there`s other politicians that have histories of absent father and others have history of having arguments with their father. George W. Bush got drunk and went and had a huge confrontation with his father that`s documented by him in his own autobiography.

And Clinton, President Clinton, had a huge confrontation with his father, his stepfather, who was an alcoholic. He has essentially said, I`m man here, once he confronted him. So, there are -- that helps you manage your aggression and express your aggression. And President Obama did not have that. And I think there may be why, at times he is so busy trying to get everybody to get along and he has dealt like that with the Republicans for quite a while.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I do have to interrupt and say these are alleged stories, although I read bill Clinton`s book where he chronicles the fact he really almost killed the guy. I mean, it was really very violent encounter.

FRANK: Yes, did he.

PINSKY: The very strange to me he dismissed it, I wish dads wouldn`t behave like that.

Anyway, he went on to talk about other elements of his life, and there was a major event. And Bush, too, was chronicled in the movie about George W. Bush.

These things are out there in the public.

FRANK: Yes.

PINSKY: We are going to keep --

FRANK: This is all public knowledge.

PINSKY: Yes. We`re going to keep going. I`m going to take some calls.

I`m also going to introduce in a few minutes, Kristin Davis. She is the Manhattan madam. She says she has had many politician clients, there she is there.

We`re going to talk about what our callers want to talk about first and then I`m going to hear from are you, Kristin, on what`s going on there in Tampa, what you hear goes on in the ground in Tampa, that may be further manifestations of all this childhood trauma.

Suzanne in New York, you go ahead.

SUZANNE, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Dr. Drew, it is my honor to speak with you.

PINSKY: It`s a pleasure.

SUZANNE: It is awesome. Thanks for this topic. As I was sitting here listening to Dr. Frank and you, did you notice Obama, Clinton and George W. Bush, they all have daughters now. So I just wanted to throw that out there, because there`s men who have either been traumatized because of the loss of the male role in their life or someone, you know, close to that, who now are raising daughters who were raised by women -- I don`t know, it is very convoluted.

PINSKY: Let`s see what Dr. Frank would say about that. And, by the way, the women are all very successful, doing rather well, too, which is an interesting piece about this.

FRANK: Well, that is a really interesting comment, I think, because one of them -- in some ways, all three of these men had a mixed bag of luck and not luck. The luck was they didn`t have to feel their son`s rage might have towards a father and didn`t have to contend with a son, but they also might have learned a lot by becoming a father to a young man. They really -- that is a really interesting observation, in fact, a terrific observation.

And Obama promised -- one of the things did he do he was very clear, I know is true about Clinton, that they would never be the kind of father that their father was. And they have made it very clear, very overt.

And Clinton, you know, the stories of Clinton is when, you know, when Chelsea was in high school, she had to taken as aspirin for something and the school nurse said let me call your mother, she says, no, no, no, she`s too busy, call dad. So, clearly, the dads are very involved.

PINSKY: Let`s go to Bob in Pennsylvania -- Bob.

BOB, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hey, Dr. Drew I was wondering, like, since there`s no father around and it`s just the single parent, wouldn`t you think it would be like so overwhelming for the parent that the children have to go through it too? Like sort of like the kids would have to deal with the trials and tribulations like it was their problem themselves?

PINSKY: Well, that`s in a way what you described is what we have been describing here, which is that this is rather traumatic and overwhelming and potentially -- sort of exceeds the child`s ability to regulate their emotions, they don`t have the right containment they might need.

Kristin, I want to sort of give a little taste of what`s about to come here. You say there`s a lot going on in Tampa as these political conventions come around. Can you give me a sense of what`s likely to go there, I guess what is being called the sexual underground?

KRISTIN DAVIS, THE MANHATTAN MADAM: You know, I think primarily, obviously, all the strip clubs are gearing up for all the politicians to come in. Some of them are setting up private entrances so the politicians can -- they can enable this act. And, you know, there`s a lot of money being spent. I mean, if you do the research, Republicans spend 3:1 versus Democrats.

So, this industry right now is flourishing, it`s their payday.

PINSKY: OK. I want to go and get into with Kristin what she thinks is going on there. And Dr. Frank, we are going to talk about how some of that trauma fuels some of the entitlements, some of the sexual transgressions, some of the cheating, try to pull this together.

Again, give us a call you 855-3737-7395.

Later, Wendy Williams.

Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: In Tampa, Florida, where the GOP convention is going to be held, strip clubs have been preparing for a spike in business.

Kristin, I`m imaging this is the delegates and not the politicians. What say you?

DAVIS: Oh, I would say it was both. I mean, I think the problem is just symptomatic of what we think about our politicians in society and that`s we perceive them to be perfect and they make mistakes. They have vices. They have like normal men, like any other men.

PINSKY: And, Dr. Frank, is there an entitlement amongst politicians that makes them feel insulated against transgressions?

FRANK: I don`t think there is in particular. I think I agree with what you just said about we hold politicians up to a higher standard and we forget that they are men. And there`s lots of men. I mean, the biggest money that`s made according to the same article I read was in the Super Bowl weekend and that`s not politicians at all, there`s tons of transgressions and that makes sense to me. It`s not like it`s only politicians.

PINSKY: So, to say -- to speculate that these injuries that these guys, these men have suffered in their childhood end up being narcissistic injuries and feel sort of special as a result? Dr. Frank?

FRANK: Well, I`ve treated a lot of people who have narcissistic injuries and they don`t all end up exactly the same way. They are very different. So I think it`s really hard to generalize.

So I would rather not generalize. One of the things I can generalize about is that alcohol disinhibits people. And if they drink, they are more likely to do things that they might not otherwise do if they were not drinking.

PINSKY: Certainly that`s true.

FRANK: That I can say for sure.

PINSKY: I`m with you on that.

Kristin, you are there interacting with these folks. Do you have the same point of view?

DAVIS: You know, I think a lot of it is a power issue primarily. They are in a position of power and they wield that power, they have people to cover up their indiscretion and people to spin them when they do come out and the only way it really becomes problematic is when their enemies have more money to highlight them.

So I think it`s a power play for me, my point of view.

PINSKY: Kristin, thank you so much for your input. Dr. Frank, thank you for joining us as well.

Next, date time talk show host Wendy Williams. Again, call her and talk to her live, 855-373-7395. She and I are going do a little bit about her, a little bit about what she think bus this show. Apparently, she`s fan of this show.

There`s Wendy. Hi, Wendy.

And diss on hot topics, how about that? After the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Wendy Williams like you`ve never seen her before -- her life, personal story and hot topic, Brianna and Chris, Kim and Kanye, Prince Harry`s hard luck. The how you doing daytime diva takes your calls live with me, 855-DRDREW5.

All right. Now, a reminder. The fourth season of the Wendy Williams show day because on September 10th. There she is. Remember hot topics is one of her very popular features. We are going to recreate that here a little bit later.

Joining me -- want to watch your show, Wendy. Joining me is Wendy Williams.

Thank you for being here.

WENDY WILLIAMS, HOST, "THE WENDY WILLIAMS SHOW": Thank you so much, Doctor. Hi, everybody.

PINSKY: Wendy, I`m used to being interviewed by you. It`s always weird when I switch that roles.

WILLIAMS: Well, you have been on my show twice, three or four times. You scheduled also to come on in the fall for the new season.

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But I`m with you virtually every week night. I -- you are -- this is like -- it`s like being entertained by a smart friend at the end of a very long day. You know, I`m not just a working girl with a talk show, but I`m also a wife and a mother and cooking dinner and organizing things. So this is very soothing conversation, the kind of stuff that grown people need.

PINSKY: Thank you. I appreciate it. You actually do watch us?

WILLIAMS: I`m a fan of this show. Yes.

PINSKY: Gotcha. Got it.

Now, you were on radio for like 20 years, right?

WILLIAMS: Yes, almost 25.

PINSKY: What is it like switching -- I have done the same thing, what was it like for you switching television?

WILLIAMS: I was fan of you on radio (INAUDIBLE).

You know, even though radio and television are both entertainment, and to a layperson, it would seem similar --

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: There are a lot of differences.

PINSKY: Oh, yes.

WILLIAMS: First of all, four hours in front of a hot microphone.

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: I always did four-hour radio shows is a lot different than one-hour of live TV.

PINSKY: Which is really more like 50 minutes in reality and 45 minutes.

WILLIAMS: Yes. It`s 45 minutes of TV. Then, of course, the luck. You and I are amongst the tallest people on TV. You know, me as a woman, forget about it.

PINSKY: Which is why you wear nine-inch heels? Can we get a picture of these heels --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I tried wearing -- the camera is ducking down here. There you go. There they are.

WILLIAMS: Wait.

PINSKY: I tried wearing a pair of shoes like that once in a -- believe it or not, it was not for anything --

WILLIAMS: How you doing, Dr. Drew?

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: It was for cancer fundraiser called Walk a Mile in Their Shoes." And I made it about four feet, fall right on my face.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PINSKY: How do you guys do it?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, you do it because -- I don`t know. They make your legs longer. They`re beautiful. I love being a girl. And I used to not like being tall. But now, you know, I`m 5` 11", and I love to be -- I embrace my height.

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And I think that a lot of things about us, you just start to get right with after a particular age and station.

PINSKY: OK. I want to get into that a little bit. We have -- I think we have a clip of something -- yes, here it is, during the passing of Whitney Houston.

WILLIAMS: Uh-huh.

PINSKY: You had a real reaction to that.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.

PINSKY: So, I want to play a clip that -- your reaction was and tell me a little bit about that history with yourself, if you don`t mind.

WILLIAMS: OK.

PINSKY: Let`s take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: I had a very long radio career, over 20 years. I interviewed Whitney once in 2003. And many of you all recall that interview. Some of the things that Whitney and I have in common that bonded us, the love of our mother and father, Whitney and I, same age, and both plagued with the demon of substance abuse.

It`s been almost 15 years since I smoked last from a crack pipe. It`s been almost 15 years since I waited on Jerome Avenue in the Bronx for my drugs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: You`re having quite a reaction.

WILLIAMS: I haven`t seen that since that happened.

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: OKs. You know, I -- um -- I believe in sharing the truth with people, you know, it`s very difficult for me to be a liar and deceiver.

PINSKY: The genuineness.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Whitney --

PINSKY: She`s dead. You`re alive. Why?

WILLIAMS: For me, personally, --

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: -- this is not putting words in anybody who might be a substance abuser`s mind.

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But, you know, I was raised better than that. And I never been arrested and wrecked my stellar radio career. And I never embarrassed my parents who are still married.

PINSKY: So, it never really took off, it just threatened you?

WILLIAMS: It just threatened me. I never was broke off, you know -- I was -- I was always able to pay all of my bills and live quite a good life.

PINSKY: So, you never hit a bottom?

WILLIAMS: Right.

PINSKY: And you saw it coming and you were able to whatever it is God stepped in, your own resources, whatever it was, you were able to --

WILLIAMS: I wanted better for myself, you know? And I think that I got -- I got started personally -- and you helped me through this. You know, we whispered a little something to each other on one of your many visits to my show, and you`re the one who actually told me, Wendy, you were never an addict. You were just a -- I forgot what you said.

PINSKY: Severe abuser.

WILLIAMS: A bored girl with maybe a couple of extra dollars. I had a nice radio career and I had a fiduciary income. And, you know, I had always been a good girl.

PINSKY: You weren`t what we call a full-blown addict.

WILLIAMS: No.

PINSKY: You had bad substance abuse but not addiction, per se. Thank God. That`s with the grace of God. Not to say you couldn`t trigger it.

WILLIAMS: No. I very well could have. But one day, I decided that I wanted better for myself, and I eventually wanted to get married and I eventually wanted to have children and I definitely didn`t want my career to be torpedoed by abuse.

PINSKY: How is it being a mom?

WILLIAMS: I love it. He`s in the other room, Little Kev.

PINSKY: I think at some walk -- look around the corner.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PINSKY: How great.

WILLIAMS: He travels. My husband is in the other room, and we`ve been married for 14 years.

PINSKY: I`ve met your husband a couple of times. Kevin and Kev.

WILLIAMS: Kevin and Kevin, because I`m busy. I can`t really do all that remembering of names, but our son is about to go into seventh grade and he knows his mother from wigs to substance abuse to, you know, I think -- I think I`m fairly decent mother to him.

Just opened -- just opened up enough but -- but don`t -- we don`t give him more information than he can handle.

PINSKY: Right. Smart.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PINSKY: Right. You don`t want to issue a license for him to pick up where you left off.

WILLIAMS: Right (ph).

PINSKY: That`s what I`m saying.

WILLIAMS: Uh-huh.

PINSKY: So, tell us what something else we don`t know about you. is there anything else that people don`t know about Wendy Williams? You pretty much put it all out there.

WILLIAMS: I do. Well, I always tell people, you know, I like to keep a decent home. And it`s not because --

PINSKY: Are you like obsessional cleaner that kind?

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, no. Not like that, but I do keep a tidy home.

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: It always looks like it`s ready for company. The worse that it will be, maybe a few pots and pans sitting on the counter that I have to get to or something like that.

PINSKY: Take care of that won`t go away.

WILLIAMS: No, because kids purposely do things wrong so that you say, get out of the way, I`ll do it myself. But I do and I can tell you something else.

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: I`d rather go shopping in a furniture store than go shopping in the dress or shoe department at any store. I love --

PINSKY: What kind of furniture, classic furniture, certain kinds?

WILLIAMS: I am akin to Liberace (ph). I do have a flare for -- I like chandeliers and candelabras. I like that type of --

PINSKY: OK. Hold on. We`re going to take a little break. And I want to take your guys calls about Wendy and her habits for -- what`s the stuff you put on -- rhinestones --

WILLIAMS: Rhinestones bedazzled.

PINSKY: All right. I`m not sure I want go too far into the whole bedazzling thing --

WILLIAMS: No.

PINSKY: And how far you`ve gone with that, but we`ll take your calls at 855-DrDrew5. So, stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How you doing?

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: how you doing?

(CHANTING) how you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you doing?

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: If you fly, you know they ask you to turn off your crap before you roll out of the gate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have a bug in your hair.

WILLIAMS: I do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just let me help you.

WILLIAMS: No, I got it. Slap my wig off.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: You didn`t sound good?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was sad (ph).

WILLIAMS: You can sound like what you want, girl, there`s a hater in aisle three.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Welcome back. I`m talking with Wendy Williams, the host of "The Wendy Williams Show." Wendy, it`s live. This is live. Your show is live. We both from radio backgrounds.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PINSKY: That`s what really makes this -- I know --

WILLIAMS: I love live TV, and this season, our fourth season, is more special than ever because, you know, we`ve moved into a new facility. The studio is bigger. We`re now HD.

PINSKY: Same building or --

WILLIAMS: No. We were on 53rd Street for those of you who know Manhattan, now we`re on 26th street.

PINSKY: Uh-huh.

WILLIAMS: Larger everything. Longer hot topics, which happens to be a fan favorite. So, we`ll start the show. The hot topics will go on and on and on and on, and then, we`ll take a break.

PINSKY: Well, let us do some hot topics, how about that?

WILLIAMS: Sure.

PINSKY: All right. Rihanna, talking about her on Oprah recently. She said she still loves Chris Brown. What are your thoughts? Think that`s okay? Wise?

WILLIAMS: I think that from what I know of women who`ve been abused in the past, it`s still too soon for her to have, perhaps, any other opinion, especially being that she`s so young.

PINSKY: Yes, I agree with you. It`s so intense.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PINSKY: You know, that abuse actually intensifies the attachment. They feel more like special and in love and the drama and the intensity. People get involved in relationships like this sometimes confuse intensity with love.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PINSKY: And you can imagine, I mean, you get high in that intensity.

WILLIAMS: And then you talk with Oprah, and everybody tells her, you know, what they`re really thinking, and so, you know, she`s a young lady caught up. And hopefully, she will learn to move on. One of the things that will move her along is not falling in love with the next man but getting herself together as a young woman.

PINSKY: Absolutely.

WILLIAMS: And you know, she just has a strong support system around her, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Let`s take a call for you. Dorothy in British, Columbia. Dorothy, you have something for us or for Wendy?

DOROTHY, BRITISH, COLUMBIA: Yes. Hi, Dr. Drew. Hi, Wendy.

WILLIAMS: Hi, Dorothy.

DOROTHY: I`ve been following this for quite a while, and I`m not here about the beating. It`s the fact that why is everyone picking on Chris Brown and destroying his career over this? Yes, I don`t agree with what he did to her, it`s wrong.

But, how many other actors out there are still shining and making wonderful careers and everybody forget about what they did. Some of them are a lot more severe than what this was.

PINSKY: Do you think they`re destroying Chris Brown? Chris is getting -- people are encouraging him to get help. Don`t you think people are more positive?

WILLIAMS: I think people feel a little bit more positive about Chris Brown. I mean, he`s put out pretty good music and those types of things. He had a couple of incidences, though, Dorothy, after the initial Rihanna instance that made people question him like when he went a little, you know, crazy over at the today show, was it in Times Square?

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: You know, and you`re right, Dorothy. People do seem to forgive bad behavior very quickly, but that`s -- this is the microwave age that we live in, unfortunately, for better or for worse.

PINSKY: You are so right. (INAUDIBLE)

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PINSKY: Well, let`s take of the next story for our hot topics. What you got for me up there? Give me something next. Michael Strahan.

WILLIAMS: Love.

PINSKY: OK, good. Now, he`s going to fill in with Kelly Ripa permanently now? That`s an interesting choice, don`t you think? By the way, you know, my co-host at radio, Michael Catherwood, was very much in the running for this.

WILLIAMS: I saw Mike. Mike and I were on "Dancing with the Stars" together. He got eliminated first and me second. I`m not a dancer.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: Believe me, he wasn`t either. Although, I wanted to throttle the judges -- and you, too. There is Michael Strahan there with Kelly. And Kelly loved Mike, but Strahan got the job. Does that fit for you?

WILLIAMS: Yes. Can I tell you --

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: -- that Kelly who`s also been on my talk show --

PINSKY: Look at him.

WILLIAMS: I love Michael Strahan. I think he does things like this that just make him funny, you know, but he`s also a father. He`s also been married. He`s got a few life`s lessons under his belt.

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: He can still keep his football job, right, over at Fox.

PINSKY: Is he going to? I don`t know. Is he?

WILLIAMS: In my mind, he is.

PINSKY: OK. Good.

WILLIAMS: But in my mind --

PINSKY: I wouldn`t miss him if he weren`t there, by the way.

WILLIAMS: I don`t watch football, but I think he should keep his feet in what made him originally, and then, dabble in the talk thing, and it`s so natural. He`s sitting there with Kelly. I told his girlfriend, there she is right there, Nicole Richie -- excuse me, Nicole Murphy, she came on the show towards the end of last season.

I said, Nicole, our guy has got to get that job. And then I saw Kelly at Anderson cooper. He had a party at -- listen to me name drop.

PINSKY: Look at you.

WILLIAMS: Oh, boy. No. No.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: No. But what I`m saying is I got a chance to tell Kelly.

PINSKY: Good idea.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Strahan`s your guy.

PINSKY: And what did she say?

WILLIAMS: She said, I hope so. But I -- you know, she was all -- she had other people, too. I`m happy for them. I think they make a good TV couple.

PINSKY: I think it`s very intriguing and I`m looking forward -- I think a lot of people will tune in to see how this relationship unfolds. I really do. Do we have any calls about this out there for Wendy? Anybody?

WILLIAMS: Look at him go.

PINSKY: OK. Let`s go to the next hot topic then. Wendy, naked prince in Las Vegas? What was you reaction to that?

WILLIAMS: Come on. How old is he, 28?

PINSKY: You`re not shocked?

WILLIAMS: And what were we at 28? I`m not saying we were doing that, but we knew people like that. You know, even with you, you know, and -- you were getting your doctor on and I was getting my deejay on, I was very successful in my career 28 years old, but I also knew that my peers, you know, had a bit of Prince Harry in them.

And I think what people are shocked about with Prince Harry is that he is behaving like a lot of guys do at his age as opposed to behaving royally.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: You know, we expect him to be all royal and wherefore ought now.

PINSKY: He didn`t hurt anybody, but how about the reaction people are having, though, I mean, that somehow was an intrusion on his privacy --

WILLIAMS: Well, it was. That friend needs to be kicked out of his fave five. Am I screaming? Sorry.

PINSKY: Let me bring up another -- this brings up another topic, are you on Twitter?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PINSKY: Do people attack you on Twitter? Do you let them -- it seems like every celebrity I know gets horrible (ph) stuff on twitter, at least, a certain percentage of the time.

WILLIAMS: I don`t get horrible hateful. They do criticize, because sometimes I`ll tweet with a picture. And, you know, my twitter followers were criticize a lipstick or something like that. And then, I`ll come back at them. I`ll change the lipstick, I`ll be like, is this better?

We just went through this the other day. Listen, I like social media, Dr. Drew, but I don`t let it dictate my life. I just don`t. I`m not that girl.

PINSKY: Yes. Kimmel (ph) just said a thing where he shows all -- had people reading some of the hateful tweets, the celebrities -- amazing what stuff people have to put up with. And so, when you think about him being intrude upon, people feel sort of entitled to intrude on public figures.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PINSKY: Not sure that`s right.

WILLIAMS: it is not right, but you know what, that wasn`t just people. That was a friend of Harry`s inside of that hotel room. And this is why these camera phones and all this, I`m sorry, Dr. Drew, I hate to be talking with my fingers and all, you know, upset with you.

PINSKY: Point at me. Point at me.

WILLIAMS: You know what, I`m tired of the camera phones. I`m tired of them. And I think that friends like that who needs enemies? And harry didn`t look like he was doing anything wrong. I didn`t see drugs or booze strewn around that.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: OK a little bit. He wasn`t driving.

PINSKY: OK. Hold on. We`ll take a little picture of you as we go to break.

WILLIAMS: All right.

PINSKY: OK. No, we got to go break. More calls, 855-373-7395. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I`m back with Wendy Williams, read a tweet to Wedny @WendyWilliams which is her Tweeter handle (ph). "Hey, girl. Send me some love from Kelly." You look fabulous next to Dr. Drew. How are you doing?

WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you.

PINSKY: Isn`t that nice? That`s from Psycheduck12 (ph).

WILLIAMS: Now, do you see anything nasty there?

PINSKY: No, I don`t. I`m sure my stuff will come on soon enough. But, tell me about the men in your life, Kevin, Kev. How did you meet your husband, how long you guys been married?

WILLIAMS: I met my husband at the club, Dr. Drew. You can find love in the club.

PINSKY: Was it radio?

WILLIAMS: It was -- I was hosting as a radio person and he was there, not in the club, but he was a party promoter at that particular time and looking to, perhaps, hire the deejay in that club to do a party of his. Listen, to make a long story short, that was 18 years ago. Neither one of us had a boyfriend or girlfriend at that time. We began dating right away. And now, we have our beautiful --

PINSKY: How long till you were married? How long have you been?

WILLIAMS: We`ve been married 14 year. We dated for those years before.

PINSKY: Four years.

WILLIAMS: Right, four years. I had already been married for five months, the big wedding that every girl wants, which -- that stupid white dress.

PINSKY: I would say too many great weddings and horrible marriages, right?

WILLIAMS: Yes. We got -- me and Kevin ended up going to the justice of the peace in Jersey City and getting married. I, in a kilt skirt from Kohl`s with (INAUDIBLE). You know, and he in regular street beer (ph), and you know, we have our son.

PINSKY: You have a great marriage.

WILLIAMS: You know what, everybody`s marriage is different. I`m really happy.

PINSKY: Yes.

WILLIAMS: I don`t know what great is, but it`s great to me.

PINSKY: I`ve met your husband. He`s your manager, too?

WILLIAMS: Yes. He`s my manager.

PINSKY: He comes on the stage, sometimes, after your show and -- I look forward to talking to him. He`s such a great guy.

WILLIAMS: He`s one of the executive producers of the talk show, and I -- he`s my friend, and I love him and he`s also -- working together with your spouse does not work for everybody.

PINSKY: I get that.

WILLIAMS: But it works for us.

PINSKY: That`s good. Good. Take a quick call. Marianne in Pennsylvania -- Marianne.

MARIANNE, PENNSYLVANIA: Yes. Hello, Dr. Drew. Hello, Wendy.

WILLIAMS: Hi, Marianne.

MARIANNE: OK, my question is for you, Wendy. I would like to know you have a show that you do five days week, you have a family, you keep up with all the hot topics, everything else that`s going around in the world. How do you do that (INAUDIBLE)

PINSKY: And keep the house all clean like you said?

WILLIAMS: Well, I have to say, I prioritize and, Marianne, thank you for asking that. You know, you might not believe this, Dr. Drew, but you know -- and I do like to talk age, OK? Because I think that age is relative to one`s station in life. I just turned 48 years old. You know, we already talked about, you know, my party days.

PINSKY: Look good.

WILLIAMS: Thank you. We already talked about my party days. I have lived my life as far as going out socially. There`s nothing in the streets that I need. I begged for a family and a career because I couldn`t just have -- so now I have them. My favorite ensemble is not a dress and a show wig, it`s a home wig and a robe. And I like to be at home and I like to relax in my mom cave.

PINSKY: And you work. And you work hard.

WILLIAMS: And I work hard, but I also rest hard.

PINSKY: Got to go to break. More with Wendy.

WILLIAMS: Oh.

PINSKY: Stay with us. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Wendy Williams returns for the fourth season of her hit daytime talk show on September 10th. New studio, expanded hot topics and more. So, please check it out.

WILLIAMS: So many great surprises.

PINSKY: I`m going to do the show --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PINSKY: But Wendy, you`re telling me, you go do the show, you work your butt off, your husband is there and then you put on your house slippers and go shopping?

WILLIAMS: You know, I like to do my own grocery shopping.

PINSKY: In Jersey?

WILLIAMS: In jersey. Shout out to my town, you all know me. I put on my bouffant wig, which is, you know, twirled up and whatnot. And a little lip gloss. I like to go to the shop right in the kin. I like to go to home goods. I like to go to Michael`s and --

PINSKY: Have a life. You like to have a life.

WILLIAMS: Well, it might sound corny, but corny is cool. I`m bringing corny back.

PINSKY: You know Wendy, I`m going to tell you something. No, no, no. It`s more -- it`s something more profound than what you`re saying. This is something for my viewers I want you to hear, which is that people need a simple life. You can do all this fun stuff on TV and have a great career, but if you don`t keep the simple life at the core --

WILLIAMS: This is why I love you.

PINSKY: Oh, you`re very kind. But a simple life has to be the core that you live with, and it sounds like you`ve been able to achieve that. I know people want to see more of your husband on TV, but that would take away from the simple life.

WILLIAMS: It`s not the life that we want. It`s not -- that`s not the role that he wants. And I want what he wants to make him happy and he wants what I want and he is -- he is my manager. I make the magic, and then, he takes it and helps propel, and I get support from both Kevins at home. I`m happy.

PINSKY: You like living in New Jersey?

WILLIAMS: I -- I love Jersey, OK? The garden state. Whoop-whoop.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: I have about 40 seconds. I kind of want to take this call. I don`t think -- all right. No, real quick. What did you want to ask?

NOEL, PENNSYLVANIA: Hey, Wendy. I just wanted to let you know you really inspire me. I want to pursue a career in radio. What`s your secret to success?

PINSKY: In 15 seconds.

WILLIAMS: Being true to myself, you know? You can listen to a lot of opinions, Noel, and you might even follow those opinions, sometimes, of your work and what you do. But ultimately speaking, at the end of the day -- I can`t believe I said that, at the end of the day -- at the end of the day, it`s all about what you want for you, what`s going to make you happy.

PINSKY: Wendy, thank you so much. It`s live after all. So, I got to go.

WILLIAMS: I know.

PINSKY: Thank you all for watching. Thank you all for calling. Thanks to my guests. And a reminder, Nancy Grace starts right now.

END