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Getting Over Getting Dumped
Aired September 12, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: All right. Getting over getting dumped -- that`s what we`re going to talk about. We`re coming to you today live from New York City. I`ve been out here today, promoting something I`m going to talk about later on in the show. If I can tell you about it in a couple of minutes.
But, as you know, it`s Wednesday, we`re going to talk a little bit about dumping, being dumped. We`ve all been through it. I want to take your calls at 855-DRDREW5.
Joining me to discuss are Maryjane Fahey and Caryn Rosenthal. They got together and wrote a book called "Dumped." There it is. I`ve got to read you the entire title, though.
It says, "You would have dumped him, and you know it, he just beat you to it. Here`s a grown-up guide to getting off your butt and over your ex in record time."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Record time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right.
PINSKY: All right, ladies. What happened? Which is worse -- being dumped or dumping?
CARYN BETH ROSENTHAL, AUTHOR, "DUMPED": It doesn`t matter. It doesn`t matter.
PINSKY: It doesn`t matter, does it?
ROSENTHAL: I walked out of a 10-year relationship. But he`s dumped me throughout the relationship. It`s not like -- it doesn`t matter. It was tough.
I -- this was the first time I`d ever actually dumped somebody. I usually just drive them to dump me because it`s less mess.
PINSKY: You are packing a lot into what you are saying.
ROSENTHAL: I am?
PINSKY: I mean a 10-year relationship.
ROSENTHAL: A 10-year relationship is a big deal.
PINSKY: It`s a big deal. If you are so passive, co-dependent in the relationship, then you make -- you drive people away.
ROSENTHAL: Well, in the past.
PINSKY: I`m just saying.
ROSENTHAL: Only in the past. It`s the new me, I can`t wait to dump the next one.
This has really gotten to a point where I get it now. It really doesn`t matter who dumped who, you know?
MARYJANE FAHEY, AUTHOR, "DUMPED": And I`m coming from the opposite situation where I was with someone for seven years.
FAHEY: Not married, happily together. Been married, don`t want to do that again, necessarily. Well, that`s how I feel. Cohabitating.
And by year six, we were having some problems, and I got dumped in a phone call. It just blindsided me.
ROSENTHAL: Glad you`re out.
PINSKY: Men are a little cowardly with the dumping.
ROSENTHAL: Yes. They are.
FAHEY: Oh, yes. Mine was a coward.
PINSKY: So, Maryjane, you`ve been through a horrible situation with dumping --
FAHEY: Yes, I was.
PINSKY: -- through cowardly ways, have you heard other horror stories now that you`ve written this book? About dumping, about guys doing the dumping? And how sort of --
ROSENTHAL: You know, they do it, you know, via e-mail and post-it notes, and a phone call -- well, if you`ve been with a person for a long period of time, it has to be a face-to-face.
FAHEY: It has to be a conversation where you really understand it.
ROSENTHAL: Yes. But if it`s something short-term, we think a phone call is OK.
ROSENTHAL: If it`s just short-term.
PINSKY: Let me ask something serious -- have you tapped into something here? Are women coming up to you or men?
FAHEY: They love it. Absolutely.
PINSKY: But you`re acting kind of differently.
ROSENTHAL: Well, we had different points of view. Well, the way we handled our breakup, how we got over them. Maryjane likes the journal, you know, and --
PINSKY: In terms of how women are responding to you, tell me about that.
ROSENTHAL: We`re empowering them. We`re empowerment babes. I mean, dumped is to get women to start laughing and to stop whining because we don`t want their friends to jump, too.
PINSKY: OK, oh, interesting.
FAHEY: I think people -- women are really responding to this. They`re ready for an empowerment book. It`s the time.
They`re sick of frankly reading a lot of books read by guys.
ROSENTHAL: And we have to wait until page 152 for a tip. You need to have fun.
FAHEY: They`re getting this -- a pick-up bible, an empowerment bible to get you out and ready to embrace life again.
ROSENTHAL: And to get to know yourself. You don`t have to jump into something right away.
PINSKY: So, you don`t need a man to be whole. That`s a big message.
ROSENTHAL: You shouldn`t. When you need someone, you should already be whole.
PINSKY: It`s a great message. Let`s take some calls, ladies.
Trevor in Arizona -- Trevor, what do you got for us?
TREVOR, CALLER FROM ARIZONA: About a year ago I was actually dumped via text, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Interesting, so women can be as duplicitous as men, can`t they, huh? How about that?
ROSENTHAL: Oh, I didn`t hear that.
PINSKY: You know, it sounds awful. Tell me about the story. What was the relationship? How long had you been in it?
TREVOR: Well, it like lasted about a week or so, but still, she was my first kiss. So pretty tough for me --
PINSKY: How old are you?
TREVOR: It was hard.
ROSENTHAL: How old are you, Trevor? It was your first kiss?
ROSENTHAL: Oh, that`s nice.
TREVOR: Yes, I was 21.
PINSKY: Maybe you having waited until 21 for a first kiss made her feel a little overwhelmed, like you were coming on too strong. Women hate that. Women hate neediness probably more than anything else I can think of, wouldn`t you guys agree?
FAHEY: I think you`re right. Yes.
ROSENTHAL: I think, Trevor, you need to start saying yes to a lot more. Really say yes to things and maybe you`ll have more luck, you know, and more kisses and stuff.
PINSKY: A foolish man seeks happiness in the distance, the wise man grows it under his feet.
FAHEY: But you`ll notice, we said woman in there.
PINSKY: I see that, but maybe Trevor can take the advice, as a man.
John in New York, you`ve got something for us, John? What`s going on? John in New York?
PINSKY: All right. I will go on to Steve in Massachusetts.
ROSENTHAL: All right, Steve.
PINSKY: You with me? Are we having phone troubles?
STEVE, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Hi.
PINSKY: What do you got for me?
STEVE: Well, I met somebody after a year, of course, online and we -- he relocated and came to see me. And then I was dumped the day after Christmas.
PINSKY: How long had you guys been together?
STEVE: We had been together -- we communicated for over a year online.
STEVE: And we got serious six months ago, and six months after that. And then the day after Christmas, let`s just say the boom got lowered on me.
PINSKY: Steve, I know you`re getting into the drama by repeating that it happened right after Christmas and that made you extra sad, I totally get that. But again, sounds like a relationship -- it was six months old.
Here`s what I`m hearing from all of our callers. Is that they don`t seem to know when they`re in a healthy relationship and then they get surprised when they get dumped. Men do this a lot.
ROSENTHAL: It`s ridiculous, you should spot the red flags early on. Most important thing to do is listen. When you`re sitting across from someone on a date early on, they`re telling you everything in the first two hours.
PINSKY: Well, men don`t hear that. We are pretty --
ROSENTHAL: Women don`t either.
PINSKY: You have to explicitly tell us.
FAHEY: Women don`t either --
PINSKY: Jodi in Arizona -- Jodi, you have something for us?
JODI, CALLER FROM ARIZONA: Hello, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: What do you got?
JODI: You know, it seems like men to me -- you know, I`m 57, but they have no accountability when they break up with a woman.
PINSKY: Let me ask -- were you broken up with recently?
PINSKY: What happened?
JODI: Everything was great, I have a lot of help (INAUDIBLE) and we talk a lot about that. So thanks. He was stepped (ph) around (INAUDIBLE) --
PINSKY: He screwed around on you, is that right?
JODI: You know --
FAHEY: Got to learn --
PINSKY: How long ago did this end?
JODI: We broke up about two weeks ago.
JODI: Everything was great.
ROSENTHAL: You need to take care of yourself now.
FAHEY: Yes. Yes, yes.
ROSENTHAL: You owe it to yourself --
JODI: No, that`s --
ROSENTHAL: Go on, Jodi --
JODI: Well, that`s what`s funny is I was in the hospital with pneumonia, I was in the emergency room and I called him to see if he would go to my apartment and take my dog potty. That`s like, you know, you have to keep him on track or --
PINSKY: Yes. I have a new puppy, I know all about it.
JODI: I`m telling you, mine is like a triplets --
PINSKY: I have triplets too, so I know -- but, Jodi, I`ve got to take a break. And let me just say that we -- you know, these stories are sad. They make us sad, don`t they? And you guys are hear to talk about --
ROSENTHAL: Empowering you, uplifting.
PINSKY: I think we`re hearing something else, being attune to relationships is working and when it`s not working. But I`ve got to take a break and we`re actually going to bring a man into the conversation. We`re talking about getting dumped or being the dumper, either way, no fun.
I want to hear your comments, 855-373-7395.
And later up, I`ve got a mom whose son wound up addicted to heroin and pills, there he is. We`ll give you that whole story and what went wrong. What you as a mom need to watch out for to learn from Denise`s story. She`ll be here with me.
Stay with us.
PINSKY: We are coming to you live from CNN at Columbus Circle in New York City. I`m out here in New York promoting something I`m going to tell you about a little bit later.
Now we`re talking about dumping and getting dumped and when it comes to getting dumped in a relationship -- who has a tougher time, men or women?
Joining this whole discussion is Matt Titus, author of, "Why Hasn`t He Called?"
Now, Matt, you were dumped. What happened?
MATT TITUS, AUTHOR, "WHY HASN`T HE CALLED?": Oh, my God. Well, I got dumped by a woman once who actually brought her best friend to the dinner and had him translate what she was trying to say why the relationship wasn`t working out.
PINSKY: Let me ask you this, did she end up running off with him?
TITUS: I think that that was going on. Absolutely --
TITUS: I`m OK. I`m good.
PINSKY: You seem good, man. You seem good.
FAHEY: You were dealing with the best man.
PINSKY: So who has a tougher time? Matt, you listen carefully here. Let`s see what the ladies say. Men or women were being dumped.
ROSENTHAL: I think women do.
PINSKY: Matt, go ahead.
I get that. Matt, what do you think?
TITUS: I think that men are much emotionally weaker than women.
TITUS: I think that men don`t become emotionally invested. And when they do and a woman dumps them, it is like, like it`s awful. They can`t get over it. They can`t believe it.
Men do not want to be emotionally attached to women at all. They want to be physically attached. They love the physical bond.
They hate that emotional bond. They`re constantly running from it. And when it happens, we`re devastated. We could not get over it.
PINSKY: Matt, back me on this. Nobody is in more pain than the 17- year-old, 18-year-old, 19-year-old male that gets dumped and he`s taking revenge for the next 10 years.
TITUS: That`s right.
PINSKY: When that 17-year-old, when he gets dump, he is devastated, and women don`t know that.
TITUS: That`s the worst thing that can happen to a teenage boy, man. For him to get dumped at that age, it`s -- when we`re so emotionally fragile. We`re not sure of our feelings of love. And when that happens, it`s scarring.
And you`re right, five, eight, 10 years you could be jaded as a man.
ROSENTHAL: Really, Matt? This is so funny it`s all about guys. I mean, it`s a known fact that the women are always so devastated.
PINSKY: Later. Later.
TITUS: Quite frankly, I think --
ROSENTHAL: My ex is more in love with his motorcycle than he was with me.
TITUS: You guys are over-thinking the whole thing. I don`t know, the book, it might help. Female empowerment. You know what? Whatever. But let`s say this --
FAHEY: It`s about empowering.
ROSENTHAL: Yes, it`s about empowering. Giving women confidence.
TITUS: There we go.
ROSENTHAL: It`s about self-esteem, encouraging women to go on getaways, have a good time.
TITUS: There`s so much estrogen going on here, I can`t even hear anything.
PINSKY: You`re right. I -- I`m having (INAUDIBLE) estrogen in the room.
But let`s take a call. Let`s talk to Sarah.
I want to apologize to our viewers, a crazy delay going on here. Please bear with us. We`re all trying to work with this thing right now, Sarah in New Jersey -- Sarah, go ahead.
SARAH, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi, Dr. Drew, how are you doing tonight?
PINSKY: I`m great, Sarah. I`m having a little fun here. What`s up?
SARAH: I actually was in a long-distance relationship that started here in the States and he moved over to a different country. And we talked about me moving there. I visited him, he came back to visit me.
About two weeks later, I had a great phone call, got a little amorous, little phone sex I guess --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s good. We`re all for that.
PINSKY: The panel is concurring with that as an okay move. What happened? Where did it go off the rail?
SARAH: Well, the relationship ended up.
PINSKY: With that?
TITUS: I know why.
PINSKY: Oh, Matt -- go ahead, Matt. Tell us why.
TITUS: Because when a woman is not directly in a man`s eye line, at least once, twice, three times a week, there`s no hope. Forget it. There`s too much distraction.
ROSENTHAL: We agree, Matt. All the way. Yes.
PINSKY: All right. Very quickly -- Krystina in North Dakota -- Krystina.
ROSENTHAL: All right. Christine.
KRYSTINA, CALLER FROM NORTH DAKOTA: Hi, my name`s -- yes, I dated a guy for a year, and towards the end of our relationship after he had already gave me an engagement ring and everything --
KRYSTINA: Sat there and broke up in front of our own friends in our own home after --
PINSKY: Oh, my goodness.
FAHEY: He needs an audience to break up with you?
PINSKY: He needs a public forum to break up with Krystina? What`s that all about?
FAHEY: I wonder what kind of red flags you were missing.
PINSKY: I knew your book was all about red flags, but I think she missed somebody waving a flag.
But, Krystina, in public, why?
KRYSTINA: Well, I don`t know why. From what I understood of him was that he couldn`t confront people.
PINSKY: No kidding.
KRYSTINA: And when it came to me with this, he went and hid behind friends and had them --
PINSKY: OK. We`ve got to take a break. But let me say something. And this is what I`m learning from this conversation, it`s not okay to be cowardly, men or women.
PINSKY: Have the dignity and be respectful enough of another person who you`ve been intimate with to not be a coward. I know it`s hard. Breaking up, being dumped, causing someone else pain, it`s never easy. My advice, always swift and sure.
PINSKY: Matt, you`ll agree with me on that. Swift and sure. And because otherwise you were just dragging out the pain. If you know you`re out -- swift and sure.
TITUS: That`s right.
ROSENTHAL: Time to move on too.
PINSKY: Well, speaking of moving on, I`ve got to move on to a commercial break. We`re going to have more calls about dumping and getting dumped, your relationship. Again, the phone number is 855-373-7395.
And later, stick with me for this, a mom who was blindsided by her son getting hooked on pills, opiates. There`s my buddy Mike there -- ultimately on heroin and then treatment. I`ll tell you how he`s doing. She`ll tell you what to watch out for.
Stay with us.
PINSKY: All right. Now, relationships are messy, and guess what? Breakups are messy. We`ve been hearing calls that these breakups are ranging from sad to outrageous. Call us at 855-DRDREW5.
Matt, I was talking going out to the break. You seemed to have a reaction to some of the things I was saying. I wanted to give you a chance now to respond.
TITUS: I just was going to say that people define their lives by their relationships, and I don`t think that`s really healthy. If the relationship goes well, then their life is great. If the relationship is bad, then their life is just terrible.
And I don`t think that`s the way to live. Relationships should be a supplemental part of your life that makes it better.
ROSENTHAL: Exactly. Agreed, agreed.
TITUS: But you guys are way too into it.
ROSENTHAL: You haven`t read our book, baby.
TITUS: I love it when you call me, baby.
ROSENTHAL: Well, it`s really to get women to stop dwelling and to move on. There`s nothing wrong with you have a relationship.
TITUS: Did you know that 95 percent of the time, the person that is dumped is not the problem. The dumper is the problem -- that`s the person that has the problem. Ninety-five percent of the time, there`s some insecurity, some problem, some weird thing --
PINSKY: Matt, Matt --
FAHEY: I`ve never done that before.
PINSKY: Well, interesting. Your problem is the picker -- so you`re with the guy that has the problem, you pick the guy with the problem, he can`t tolerate intimacy, so he dumps you before he gets close.
ROSENTHAL: I`m getting closer and closer to like the ultimate guy. And there`s no regrets with anybody because they all lead to something. You learn from every relationship you have.
FAHEY: I would say dumper or dumpee isn`t the issue here.
FAHEY: The issue here is --
PINSKY: Taking care of yourself.
FAHEY: Taking care of yourself.
PINSKY: I`ve got limited time to take a call.
Jessica in New York -- Jessica, what do you got?
JESSICA, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, how are you, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: I`m great, Jessica. Thanks for calling.
JESSICA: Well, I had a question about something you guys talked about a little earlier.
JESSICA: It had to do with the red flag that you should see.
PINSKY: Oh, yes.
JESSICA: What kind of red flag would it be?
PINSKY: Go ahead. What is that? I`m sorry?
FAHEY: What kind of red flags would that be?
JESSICA: Yes. What are you looking for?
ROSENTHAL: Well, it`s like I said -- like my ex preferred his motorcycle to me. Little things like that. If he`s not adoring you, it`s a feeling you get. You have to know.
PINSKY: I would say most women don`t -- Matt, you might agree with me, don`t trust their gut. Women`s guts are very good.
TITUS: You guys have something called female intuition. I hate that because there`s always nails us up against the wall. That`s a weapon all women should use.
Dr. Drew is exactly right. Go with your gut.
The other thing, if his behavior changes quickly, he becomes inconsistent, he`s not there when he says --
FAHEY: Exactly. Red flags. Yes. >>
PINKSY: Don`t treat people you love like someone you disdain. Treat them with respect.
FAHEY: That`s right.
ROSENTHAL: You`re not having sex is a big red flag, Matt. Not having sex, huge.
FAHEY: And when you`re not being respected.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
Becky, what do you got?
BECKY, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: I`ll tell you, I`m in my 60s, and I really appreciate the fact that these two women are on. Finally someone is out there showing women who are far younger than I am the things to do when it comes to relationships. I mean, if we had this back in my day, this would be absolutely great.
FAHEY: I love that you think that, Jackie.
ROSENTHAL: It`s about women power. You`re showing power.
PINSKY: Hold on, everybody. I tell you what we`re going to do. Hold on. Because my viewers seem to be responding to you guys. And I want to remind everybody too, our last caller was a 60-year-old.
You said no sex is a red flag. Remember hormone replacement in your later years, very important to maintaining that biology.
If you wonder why things are shut down. Don`t forget about that. Hold on, I`ve got to go to break. I`m going to keep these guys with me, keep this conversation going, 855-373-7395.
I`ll be right back.
PINSKY: So, again, we are on the road here in Columbus Circle, CNN live from New York City. I`m out here promoting a show I do for VH1 called "Rehab". We`re doing it with regular folk. Rehab for everybody else this time. And I`m going to tell you more about that later.
I was on the "Today" show this morning promoting that, and I was joined by one of the mom of my patients. And her story was so touching, I wanted to bring you back here to tell you more about what moms should watch out for. So, she`ll be up with us in a few minutes.
But in the meantime, our phones started lighting up about these stories about these stories of dumping and getting dumped and your being dumped. I`m overwhelmed by all of it.
Matt is with me, as well. The ladies are joining me. They`re book is called "Dumped."
Let`s get right to the callers. Who is my first caller?
This is Jovan in Louisiana.
JOVAN, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: Yes.
PINSKY: What do you got?
JOVAN: Yes. Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Jovan.
JOVAN: Yes, I was in a relationship for about six to seven months, and it turns out that the guy was a pathological liar. And he ended up telling me he loved someone else. And he just left me out of nowhere.
PINSKY: But, Jovan, thank goodness. Thank goodness.
ROSENTHAL: He did you a favor.
PINSKY: Sometimes breakups are a good thing, are they not?
ROSENTHAL: He did you a favor. She`s too young and fabulous.
PINSKY: What would you say to women who have a nasty -- not nasty, a bad picker. You have a bad picker, too.
ROSENTHAL: No, it can get better. No, I don`t have a bad picker. I have no regrets about anybody I`ve been with. And I love the person I was with for 10 years. Your picker gets better.
PINSKY: So, more you take care of yourself.
ROSENTHAL: -- the more you find -- yes, joy and bliss and like getting out and doing things you love, find a getaway place, get in touch with nature.
FAHEY: And learn to listen. Listen to who you`re with.
TITUS: How about taking a little more slow and really understanding who somebody is before you fall deep in love. And how about not having sex so quickly --
ROSENTHAL: Oh, my!
TITUS: Because then you become so emotionally and physically invested in a person. Take it slow. And by the way Javon, six months, you`re going to be all right.
PINSKY: Yes, she is. But Matt, be fair. Men are pushing that issue of sex. Be careful about that. You`re going to walk out of this building and a lot of angry guys will be out on the street.
Christine in New Jersey.
ROSENTHAL: OK. We believe in lots of sex.
PINSKY: Is Christine there? We got her? And by the way, these women that --
CHRISTINE, NEW JERSEY: Hello?
PINSKY: Quick comment because of that big delay. I had another thought, which was that there are some great books out there for women who do fall -- Matt brought up this idea of falling in love too quickly and getting involved too quickly.
PINSKY: Women who love too much, facing love addition. These are books out there you can read. You`ve read these books. Christine, what do you got? Are you there? Let`s move on.
CHRISTINE: Hello, hello.
PINSKY: No. I`m going to Michelle in Georgia. I`m sorry, Christine. Michelle in Georgia, what do you got?
MICHELLE, GEORGIA: Hi.
PINSKY: Hi, Michelle.
MICHELLE: I`ve been with my -- actually ex-fiancee and I dumped him after 12 years. And two years ago, I kind of thought that he was messing around and we got through it. And it`s just -- I don`t know, my gut, intuition said get out.
PINSKY: And you did.
FAHEY: Good for you. You`re a girl. How are you doing?
ROSENTHAL: How are you doing?
MICHELLE: After 12 years, he doesn`t want to get married. I mean, what`s wrong with you?
ROSENTHAL: If that`s what you want, absolutely.
PINSKY: My question is, why didn`t your spidey sense go off after 18 months? Why did it take 12 years?
MICHELLE: I don`t know.
ROSENTHAL: Maybe they`re having fun until the last --
PINSKY: Ladies, I`m going to give Matt a little word on this. Go ahead, Matt. Give a last word.
TITUS: I just think that everybody tries to give someone they love the benefit of the doubt over and over and over again.
TITUS: And we don`t see those things that are blaring in our faces that our friends might see or relatives, because you really love that person. So, I get it. But thank God, 12 years, remember, every second you`re with someone that you`re not supposed to, it`s a second that you can`t be with someone you are supposed to.
PINSKY: Matt, that is exactly right. Well, no, because people always go, oh, I`ve been with him for four years. So, go ahead and put another two years into that, as well.
PINSKY: Thank God it`s only four years. Get it done, cut swift and shortly, ladies and gentlemen. Swift and shortly.
ROSENTHAL: Everybody`s got their time, though. Everybody, everybody has their time.
PINSKY: Ladies, they do, indeed. Thank you, Mary Jane Fahey and Caryn Beth Rosenthal, authors of "Dumped," and Matt Titus, of course, the book, "Why Hasn`t He Called?" Thank you, guys. It`s a good panel.
TITUS: Thank you.
PINSKY: Next up, this is something I feel very strongly about. I`m looking forward to this conversation, it`s a hard left turn. A woman who son appeared on my show, "Rehab with Dr. Drew," that will be airing this Sunday. You can watch that show, but we`re not going to -- we`re not here to promote that show.
I`m here to talk about moms and what Denise, the son of a heroin addict learn and you need to learn from her what that experiences like. We`ll also have Shelly and Jennifer from Rehab. They`ll be with us as well. And you stay with us. We`ll be right back.
PINSKY: I was happy to join the ladies of "The View" this morning. We were talking -- I`m here in New York, and we were talking about "Rehab with Dr. Drew." Don`t we have some footage of that to show? Can you guys show -- there we are. Yes. I was with Barbara who seemed very interested in what we`re doing.
We`re doing a rehab show without celebrities but with regular folks. Rehab for everybody, really. And these are some of our patients going through withdrawal here. And it was also on the "Today" show this morning, and who joined me on "Today" show was the mom of one of our patients, Denise Mariano.
Her son had a very heavy heroin addict. There she is. Denise, thank you for joining us, again. And you were so great this morning on the show. You`re actually already tearing up just being here thinking about Michael. And we`ll let you tell your story, because it`s a story that`s a cautionary tale.
Michael is this great kid. He`s a martial arts expert. He was going to college, and he looks fabulous and healthy, but lo and behold, what happened?
DENISE MARIANO, SON USED 40 BAGS OF HEROIN A DAY: I guess, just partying here and there, thinking he can handle his own. And where parties used to be beer and playing beer pong, it turned into pill taking, pills and pills and pills.
PINSKY: And I`m going to stop you. Pills -- this is the first thing I want moms to remember out there is that pills is ubiquitous. It`s out there all over the place.
MARIANO: It`s everywhere.
MARIANO: It`s in the middle schools. It`s in the high schools. It`s literally everywhere. In the beginning, first couple of weeks, I mean, I learned this from him. It`s hard for you to tell. They`re happy. They`re euphoric. They`re having a blast. You can`t smell anything, and they`re functional.
So, it`s really hard to tell, but the biggest problem is they get hooked so badly so fast, and then it turns into they`re taking it so that they`re not sick.
PINSKY: And then people don`t have any concept of how a young person goes from that to heroin. How did Michael make that journey?
MARIANO: At $30 a pill and his addiction getting worse and worse and worse, obviously, the monetary was just ridiculous that end of it. So, hence, instead of paying $30 a pill, it was easier for him to drive down to a not so nice place and purchase a bag, also an opiate of heroin for $5 a bag.
PINSKY: And then, he probably smoked it at first and then he goes to shooting it eventually.
PINSKY: Cheaper, faster, better high. And the disease, guys, the disease drives that. It`s not that Michael`s a bad kid or had bad judgment or weak will power. This is the illness. This is what kills people. How did you know Michael was in trouble? What happened?
MARIANO: Well, he was away at college and we just got alarming calls. When I say alarming, called every night, just wanting to talk to us, wanting to come home, missed us. And this is -- was a kid who was like the (INAUDIBLE), couldn`t wait to go to college and play sports and have fun and go to parties and called me every night one o`clock, two o`clock in the morning. We would have two-hour text messages.
PINSKY: Did he ever overdose?
MARIANO: He did not. He did not. We`ve learned that most of the people -- we`ve lost a lot of people that we care about.
PINSKY: In and around your community?
MARIANO: Oh, so many.
MARIANO: And most of which that were getting clean.
PINSKY: Well, that`s when it`s dangerous, because they go back and use again at their previous level. That`s enough to make them not breathe because they`re not tolerant to it anymore. Wow.
PINSKY: It`s very painful, isn`t it, for moms?
MARIANO: It`s very sad. It`s very sad.
PINSKY: Is there a message for moms out there?
MARIANO: The message would be to educate yourself and especially if you have a son like Michael, not that he`s any different than anyone else, but there`s so many different faces. And when you see a child who does well academically, who loves his family, who is athletic, who does everything well, you`re kind of blinded by it and say not my kid, and that`s the worst thing they can ever do.
PINSKY: It`s always the most dangerous words I ever hear from parents.
Let`s take a couple of calls. Is that OK?
PINSKY: OK. Denise is very kind to come in to share this story with you, guys. So, let`s take some calls. Kelly in Kansas. Kelly, what`s up?
KELLY, KANSAS: Hi, Dr. Drew.
KELLY: My mom is in a terrible relapse right now. My whole family is in recovery, and I`m in recovery for seven months now.
KELLY: And she knows that she needs the help, but we just can`t get her to step forward and take the help.
PINSKY: OK. But Kelly --
KELLY: Would you recommend an intervention?
PINSKY: Well, interesting question. I`m going to actually sort of put it on to Denise a little bit, because that feeling of helplessness when you have a family member with addiction, there`s only a few things you can do. Intervention is one of those things. What else, Denise?
MARIANO: With us, I mean, we didn`t have an intervention problem. I mean, our son wanted help. So, it`s a little difficult for me to answer that one. But I --
PINSKY: What does a loved one -- we always tell your loved one needs to do.
MARIANO: Oh, God. Tough love?
PINSKY: No. Go to Al-Anon.
MARIANO: Oh, absolutely.
PINSKY: Go to your own --
MARIANO: And I`m a big fan of Al-Anon now
PINSKY: I know you are, but (INAUDIBLE).
PINSKY: But you`re a recovering person. You`re what we call a dual - -
MARIANO: I thought we were talking about the person that didn`t want to go and what to do. But absolutely, the person that family, you need to go to Al-Anon and get the support and help yourself.
PINSKY: And sometimes, that changes your dance with the identified patient. And that gets them into treatment, as well. Amber in Canada. Amber, you got something for us?
AMBER, CANADA: Hi. My brother is addicted to meth. He is in jail right now, and I want to know if there`s anything I can do to help him when he gets out.
PINSKY: Again, you know, I chant this all the time to people, and it seems so obscure. I`m not making this recommendation the way I would say you need to lose weight, exercise, and watch your cholesterol or your fat intake. I`m ordering you to go to Al-Anon and get a sponsor and work steps.
Your loved ones` survival depends upon it. That is an order! And people don`t seem to understand that it`s a family thing, and they need to work on their own stuff, as well.
MARIANO: Because we`re enabling them. And I was the biggest enabler until I started going to --
PINSKY: You were an enabler like every mom was an enabler. You fantasize -- I fantasized -- because you love them. You want -- you`re convinced that if you don`t -- but you love them to death, eventually.
MARIANO: I certainly did.
PINSKY: Well then, you didn`t, thank God. He`s good. By the way, Michael -- let me -- you will see Michael on the rehab show, and he`s actually doing terrifically right now. He is the same lovely, brilliant kid you see right there. And he`s always sort of been that all through his illness, but he`s actually doing quite well right now.
And through the grace of God, he will continue to do so. But again, it`s a daily struggle. He has to take his treatment just the way a diabetic would have to take insulin. His family has to do their work on a daily basis. It`s a cumbersome difficult illness that requires a lot of management.
Now, we`re going to have more of your calls, more on Denise and her son. I`m going to also introduce a couple of my staff from the rehab show, you know them, Shelly and Jennifer Gimenez. But first, it is time for "Our Country Votes."
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PINSKY: Michelle Obama and Ann Romney have stolen the spotlight from their husbands at the recent conventions. And we want to know, do spouses have sway with you as a voter? So, we got some feedback on Facebook.
Nancy says, "We may look at the wives` fashion, mothering, and family skills, but in the end, the ultimate weight will fall on the husbands` shoulders." I certainly think that`s correct.
Stacy says, "Their choice in a spouse says a lot about the man, it`s not a deciding factor, but a factor, nonetheless."
Thank you for those comments. And we`re going to go to a quick break and back with Shelly our unitech from rehab and Jennifer Gimenez are going to join us. So, we`re going to continue talking with Denise and taking your calls. Be right back.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody`s get the help. I don`t want my son to die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have kidney failure. I have ulcers. My entire stomach is just shot. They`re saying I`m going to die if I don`t fix this.
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PINSKY: That is a couple of patients we`ve treated in addition to Denise`s son Michael on "Rehab." And I want you to know that they`re all still in treatment, six of the eight on treatment are doing very, very well. But it`s an intense disease.
And I guarantee you there are, perhaps, thousands of women, moms, sitting at home right now watching this whose sons are in the same trouble as Denise`s son, Michael, and they don`t know it. Wouldn`t you agree?
PINSKY: Early on, it`s almost impossible to detect.
MARIANO: It is. They`re functional. They`re happy. They`re euphoric and having a great time. It`s not until later on in the disease that you begin to see it and then it paralyzes a family.
PINSKY: Once you become aware, is there some specific advice you would give moms out there? Won`t you have a sense of this something not right?
MARIANO: Obviously, I -- our advice with our son, we`re open, we communicate with each other. I -- I truly believe the fact that he felt comfortable coming to us and asking for help was key.
PINSKY: And I would say don`t do it alone as parents. You need professional supervision. Speaking professional help, I have Jennifer Gimenez. She was one of our sidekicks on "Rehab." I have Shelly Sprague. Hey, Shelly. Shelly, I want to go to you first. And I was harping on Al- Anon before the break, and a lot of my staff, wait a minute, I don`t understand Al-Anon.
What`s Al-Anon? Why do I have to go if this person`s an addict? I was even harping on Denise about it. Help people understand what Al-Anon is.
SHELLY SPRAGUE, RESIDENT TECHNICIAN, "REHAB WITH DR. DREW": Well, Al- Anon is a sister program that was created for the family system that is broken down because of addiction.
And what needs to happen is every individual needs to focus on self and figure out their own denial system and make sure that they`re getting the help that they need so that they can be healthy when the addict or the Al-Anon breaks down, because unfortunately, we can`t treat our families.
We have to focus on ourselves. And we have to put the addict in the hands of the professionals. We cannot treat our own families.
PINSKY: And Shelly, I know -- I`m in New York right now, but you`ve been sitting on Michael. Was he OK today?
SPRAGUE: He is OK today, and I just wanted to say hello to Denise. Yes, he is OK today. You know, he needs to take direction not use his brain, and he needs to keep doing what he`s doing.
MARIANO: Thanks, Shelly.
PINSKY: That`s right. It`s one day at a time. Every day is a treacherous day for an addict in early recovery, but it is their brain that is the problem. That`s what Shelly is talking about. He needs to not use his brain to make decisions, but follow directions. Jennifer Gimenez, do you have anything to ring in about Al-Anon and its importance and what it is?
JENNIFER GIMENEZ, RESIDENT TECHNICIAN, "REHAB WITH DR. DREW": You know, it`s nice to see you and hi, Denise. I -- I got to say I`m so grateful for Al-Anon after I got sober for my mom and family.
You know, and the thing is, you know, there`s a lot of parents out there or friends or family and loved ones, you`re not the cause of it. You can`t change it and you certainly can`t cure it. And --
PINSKY: I`m going to interrupt you, because that`s the hardest thing -- I see -- you have stricken in your eyes when you hear that. It`s so hard for moms.
MARIANO: It is, because we`re nurtured to take care of them from the day they come out of our womb, and it`s what we do. It`s our make-up to try and help them, and we`re not there. I mean, we can`t do it.
PINSKY: Are you blaming yourself in some weird way?
MARIANO: Oh, absolutely not. I`m not.
PINSKY: OK, good, because I`m not going to let you get away with that.
MARIANO: Absolutely not. No.
PINSKY: This is not your fault.
MARIANO: No. I know, it`s not.
PINSKY: Yes. That`s another important message for moms out there. Jen, I`m sorry. You want to finish what you`re saying?
GIMENEZ: Well, you know, just to finish off right there, hearing and seeing Denise from when we were shooting "Rehab," she`s like night and day. And her and I have exchanged e-mails. And, she`s so empowering and she`s like -- she`s on fire for this, you know, and she`s also -- she`s not loving her son to death.
And I, too, have talked to Michael, and he`s doing really well. I`ve talked to most of the patients, I think all of them, actually. And they`re really, you know, I think the seed was planted here. And that`s the great gift from this. The rest is up to them. And like what Shelly says, you know, they can`t think. That`s why they get -- we get sponsors and mentors and therapists and let us guide you.
PINSKY: That`s right. Thinking, thinking we call that. I`m going to go out to a call real quick before I go to break. Penny in Washington State. Penny, you got something for me?
PENNY, WASHINGTON STATE: Yes, Dr. Drew. I want to say I love you, first of all, and, Denise, my hat goes off to you. I cannot express enough, you know, you not turning your back on your son. I, myself, I`m 35. When I was 18, I became a heroin addict.
Over the years of being an addict, I lost many friends to overdoses due to being neglected from their families. So, thank you so much for that. You are wonderful, a wonderful mother. And I, myself, am lucky I have a supportive family also, but a lot of them don`t.
PINSKY: Penny, hold on. I`ve got a break. I want you to hold on. I`m going to go back to Penny. So, please hold her there after the break. And of course, Denise and Shelly and Jennifer will stay with me as well. We got to take a quick break. We`ll be right back.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to die a junkie at some (EXPLETIVE DELETED) alley. Please, Dr. Drew, I`m asking you to save my life.
PINSKY: The sad fact is that in 2012, addiction is not a disease limited to privileged celebrities or just hard-core drug addicts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just sick living like this. I have so much to live for and I know this is not what was meant for me.
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PINSKY: That is our dear patient, Michael. This is his mom, Denise. And I notice you had to avert your eyes. It`s hard to see the using Michael.
MARIANO: I never saw it until -- that`s one vision of the many dark ones that I didn`t have to deal with.
MARIANO: But it`s all good. He`s in a good place now, and that`s what I have to worry about.
PINSKY: Yes, he`s sober today. And again, Denise could be anybody`s mom. I mean, there are people listening out there, watching out there. I guarantee you, either in your position or going to find out they`re in your position. Penny, I wanted to finish the conversation we`re having with you. You had a specific question for us?
PENNY: I had a couple for you, but I also just wanted to make a quick comment. Yes, you know, Michael, looking at these pictures, you know, he`s absolutely beautiful. And you know, nobody would know by looking. And I myself worked full-time -- went to school full-time, you know, for many, many years with no one ever having a clue. And if you saw me today, you`d never believe it so, you know, that is a drug that you`ve really got to -- when you`re a parent, pay attention to the signs.
PINSKY: But that`s the crazy thing, we`re talking about opiates and heroin, and that`s when people think that they`re going to be down and out junkies, but it`s not that way. So, go ahead. Quickly, penny, I`ve got limited time.
PENNY: No, no, no, it`s not. No, it`s not that way. I have, you know, always had really high standards. I`ve always dressed really nice.
PINSKY: Penny, I`m going to interrupt you. I really have very limited time, my dear. You had a question for me. Go right ahead.
PENNY: Yes. Have you ever known -- do you -- have you ever dealt with any heroin addicts that went through the heroin, methadone, and suboxone and actually stayed clean?
PINSKY: I`m going to say, yes. Shelly, come in with me on this one, my dear. This is what we thrive on, yes?
SPRAGUE: Yes. I was a heroin addict. I`ve been clean for 16 years, almost 17.
PINSKY: And we --
SPRAGUE: I went through heroin addiction, methadone.
PINSKY: Yes. We see that all the time and people stay sober and thrive.
SPRAGUE: All the time. All the time.
PINSKY: So, Denise, there is hope, there is recovery. This is -- and the reason I wanted to have you here is, A, to make the point that this is a common thing and can happen to any of us. And that this is hopeful.
MARIANO: Very hopeful. Take it a day at a time. I`m grateful for today, and that`s what I do.
PINSKY: Jennifer, you want to make one quick comment?
GIMENEZ: You know, I got to say I wanted to say, as well, and I was listening to you, Denise, is the power of prayer like honestly, if it wasn`t for my mom like praying and I don`t even know all the other powers that be. Like, that really helps, as well. And miracles do exist. Shelly`s a miracle, I`m a miracle, Bob Forrest is a miracle.
And, you know, I really believe in these kids that were on the show, the whole cast. I really believe that, you know, if they work really hard, they can and --
PINSKY: Yes. Yes, they can, Jennifer. I`ve got to go out. Unfortunately, running out of time. Good night tonight from Time Warner Center in New York. Thank you to all of my guests. Denise, a special thanks to you. I know it`s a suffering (ph) to talk about this.
Reminder, "The Rehab" show premieres this Sunday, VH1, eight o`clock. I want to thank my guests, thank my callers. Thank you all for watching. And a reminder, Nancy Grace starts right now.