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Do Women Make Men Cheat?; Matt Titus`s Other Woman; Gloria Loring Talks Book, Abuse
Aired October 3, 2012 - 21:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Tonight, a controversial theory about why men cheat has women up in arms.
Steve Santagati says you might be to blame if your husband has an affair.
STEVE SANTAGATI, AUTHOR: Most men will cheat.
PINSKY: He`ll tell us why.
Is this the same guy with a Web site called Bad Boys Finish First? All right. Whatever.
Plus, what happens when a relationship expert finds his own love life plastered in the gossip column. Matt Titus shares his story. We`re taking your calls.
And later, fans of daytime TV remember her as Liz Chandler from the NBC soap "Days of Our Lives."
Gloria Loring is also a successful recording artist and the mother of pop star Robin Thicke. In her new book, "Coincidence is God`s Way of Remaining Anonymous," we learn the life-changing role that coincidence has played in Loring`s life and how it led to the revelation and healing of a deep, dark secret.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Before Gloria, we`re going back to relationships that go bad. I have relationship guru Matt Titus. He`s on deck to reveal the story of his own messy situation and ensuing media coverage.
Matt, hang in there. We`re going to get to your story in just a second. Are you still there? Are you with me?
MATT TITUS, RELATIONSHIP GURU: Sounds great, Dr. Drew. Ready to go.
PINSKY: All right. Hang in there. OK.
But in the studio with me, I have love relationship coach Laura Baron and she is going to respond to a controversial theory by relationship expert, Steve Santagati.
So, Steve, out to you, first off, in a nutshell. You were blaming wives for their husband`s cheating. Explain this. Explain yourself.
STEVE SANTAGATI, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Especially at the seven -- especially, Dr. Drew, at a seven-year itch mark where men are going to tend -- and women -- are going to tend to look outside of the relationship for some excitement.
Women do something very dangerous to a guy. If they are nagging and untrusting, they create a situation where the guy wants to go outside the relationship because he doesn`t feel close to her for starters. Secondly, what he does is she makes it -- sorry -- the woman makes it very provocative by making it so taboo and naughty, by bothering him of everything, by accusing him of doing things that he`s probably not doing anyway. What she does is she begins to build a wall and then he wants to be on the other side of that wall because it`s a lot more fun.
PINSKY: Steve, I`ve got to tell you -- two words came out of your mouth before Laura took a deep breath and said, really?
LAURA BARON, RELATIONSHIP COACH: Oh my God.
PINSKY: So, what`s your reaction to this?
BARON: Obviously the only thing that is to blame for a man cheating is his ego and his zipper. His wife has absolutely nothing to do with this. To say that it has anything to do with her pushing him out there, Steve, and what is he doing, too? Bending them over?
SANTAGATI: If that was true, if that was true what you`re saying right now, Laura, there`d be no such thing as divorce because there are men that push women into getting divorced. Is that true or not?
BARON: There is a thing called divorce because there are people that should not be married, like the dude that is going out and cheating on his wife.
SANTAGATI: Your behavior -- your behavior as a wife can be responsible for your man wanting to step out of the monogamy of a marriage.
BARON: The only thing that a woman should be responsible for in this cheating scenario is staying with the cheater.
PINSKY: You mean if -- staying or not staying?
BARON: Exactly. If she chooses to stay, that`s on her.
PINSKY: Steve, you brought up something that I actually polled my producers in my office tonight. You said that guys are evoked somehow by the naughtiness of what they are being accused of and I think you even said in your pre-interview that everyone wants to be naughty and I took a poll in the room.
Do you want to be naughty?
BARON: I do not.
PINSKY: I don`t either. I have zero -- Steve, go ahead, Steve.
SANTAGATI: She`s lying. We would all behave a lot differently if we weren`t being watched. And if we weren`t wondering what --
PINSKY: Steve, but I think some people do have an impulse to be naughty and some just don`t have that impulse and I know Steve`s implying the Ring of Gyges here, which is that if you could be invisible because of a ring, this is platonic theory, you would do anything you wanted to do, you go sleep with the queen or whatever.
Steve, you`re laughing. You`re dying of laughter, right?
SANTAGATI: I have that ring.
PINSKY: OK. Fair enough.
Let`s go to callers. Let`s go to Jami in West Virginia.
Jami, what`s up?
JAMI, CALLER FROM WEST VIRGINIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. Hi, everybody.
PINSKY: Jami, what`s up?
JAMI: I just wanted to say to say that one person is responsible for another person`s actions is preposterous.
JAMI: You know, we worked very hard to teach our children how to make good choices and be accountable, and confuse this to why would we expect less from adults.
BARON: Agreed. And, you know, part of the issue here, too, is that blaming women for a man cheating -- I have clients whose husbands are cheating on them. They are going through eating disorders.
Drew, you can attest to this. There is depression. There is alcoholic tendencies. Why? Because there are men like you, Steve, that are saying, no, no, no, baby. It`s your fault.
You know whose fault it is? Theirs. Period.
PINSKY: Steve, let me take your logic to its ultimate sort of place. And this is -- I`m not accusing anybody or saying this is true. But if you`re logic is accurate, you would then -- it would imply that women are responsible for a lot of men`s bad behavior. Would you say it`s women`s fault that men physically abuse them because they evoke that?
BARON: That`s a good point.
SANTAGATI: No. I would say that there are two people in every relationship and women can be a catalyst to behavior in a man. I`m not saying that it`s your fault.
Ultimately, whatever action he does, he`s responsible for. He`s the one that`s taking that action.
What I`m saying in this -- what I said in my blog and what I said about women creating an environment where guys are going to want to cheat is that you are giving him the excuse he might be looking for.
BARON: If he is looking for the excuse, then he`s going to do it anyway, Steve.
BARON: If he`s a cheater, he`s going to be a cheater.
PINSKY: Guys --
SANTAGATI: Laura, haven`t you heard the expression, keep it honest, man, honest. If you don`t leave money around, the chances are the person might not steal it.
BARON: If the dude steals money out of your wallet, then the dude is a cheater.
PINSKY: Hang on. Let me take a quick call.
Jen in Pennsylvania -- Jen, what do you got?
JEN, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hi, Jen.
JEN: This guy Steve -- hi, Steve. I really think you`re off your rocker. I -- you know, whether a woman says she`s tired and she doesn`t want to have sex that evening or she is taking care of the household and taking care of the kids or she`s a working woman or God forbid she cheats on you as well -- certain situations that you`re going to be presented with and just because they are presented to you does not mean that you can go ahead and validate the fact that you feel that you should be able to go and cheat on them.
PINSKY: Jen, good point.
PINSKY: Yes, we agree with you, Jen. And I want Steve and Laura break this down a little more, talk about maybe the differences between why men and women cheat because there are different reasons.
We`re taking more calls for Steve and Laura.
After the break, relationship guru Matt Titus -- we`re going to take a break. Matt Titus talks about how his romantic -- let`s call it situation -- got so messy.
And, later, she played the scandalous Liz Chandler on days of our lives, but you won`t believe she has a real live dark secret -- Gloria Loring -- she was hiding from everyone.
Be right back.
PINSKY: If a wife continues to accuse her husband of cheating, will she ultimately cause him to cheat?
Steve Santagati says yes. Laura and I say no.
Meantime, Matt Titus, familiar face in our audience, has been on this show a bunch of times, a relationship coach. Tonight, though, he is here to reveal his own rocky romance drama.
Matt, let`s hear your story real quick here.
TITUS: Well, first of all, what I want to say is cheating is one of the lowest forms of human behavior known to mankind. When you actually are staying with someone because they can give security and comfort and you actually go outside of your marriage for the passion or the sex or the naughtiness, Steve, it`s awful.
So, you know, I was in the situation --
SANTAGATI: Monogamy is not natural. It`s a choice made by human beings. Monogamy is not natural. That`s a scientific fact.
PINSKY: But it`s healthy. There are lot of things that are not natural that raises the humans to higher plain.
Go ahead, Matt. Tell us some more.
TITUS: You know, I like to go through everything possibly that can happen to a person in relationships. It allows know guide my clients better because I`ve experienced it. I was married to a very, very wonderful woman and she and I made the mistake of not putting the relationship first.
You know, you always have to put the relationship first. I don`t care if you`re in business together. I don`t care if you have kids, work. The reason why you have all of these things is because of the relationship. Take care of it and maintain it no matter what. That`s the first thing.
The second thing is, our relationship wasn`t going anywhere. We both decided to not be together. It was a mutual decision. We separated.
Now, separation and divorce is very tricky. We also decided that during that separation, we were going to be single and that`s what we did. You know, you also make some bad decisions sometimes when you are in the middle of a divorce or becoming separated.
You know, there should be a book written about how to get the divorce correctly. I think there is.
So basically I started to see someone that was very, very -- a very wonderful person. She was there for me at a very difficult time in my life and I really started to like her and I probably wasn`t ready at that time to be with her.
PINSKY: You cheated on her, too?
TITUS: There`s no cheating, Steve. We were separated. We had an understanding.
It was -- it was a situation. They are all situations attached to every kind of event in your life. So, we have a wonderful --
BARON: Then why was it called a bad decision?
TITUS: It wasn`t called a bad decision. I`m not calling it a bad decision. It`s a decision I made to be with someone during that time that I was separated.
You know, my wife was doing what she was doing. My ex-wife was doing whatever she was doing and we were all fine. But during that time, I probably really wasn`t ready for a relationship.
And when that relationship ended, there was obviously another person that I thought I might be better to be with and it was a great error on my part. I made all of the errors because I wasn`t in any state to enter again or reenter that venue, the single scene. And I think a lot of people --
PINSKY: I`m afraid she`s going to either seize or reach for the camera and chew your face off.
BARON: I want to chew your face off. So did you cheat or didn`t you?
TITUS: No, I did not cheat.
PINSKY: Did not cheat.
BARON: But you were in a separation.
TITUS: I was single the whole entire time.
BARON: But you were getting separated and so your -- the woman that you were getting separated from was completely cool that you were out having sex with another woman?
TITUS: I didn`t say it was sex. I had a relationship with someone else and that person was there for me. Again, when you are in the middle of doing all of this --
BARON: Is this hand holding as adults?
TITUS: I`m advising my clients not to probably get involved in a relationship during the separation or the divorce.
BARON: So it was the hand holding that got you in trouble or the relationship?
SANTAGATI: First of all, since when is --
TITUS: It wasn`t -- it wasn`t really anything that got me in trouble. I just went through a lot during the time of my divorce, and it was obviously publicized because I was in a relationship.
PINSKY: Steve, a quick response that you had. What was that, Steve, that you were saying?
SANTAGATI: Laura, remember when you point the finger at someone, there are three pointing back at you. You`re not the judge and the jury. He who has not sinned, let them cast the first stone. We`re human beings. Matt is a human being.
He made a decision from what he`s telling us right now was a moral one.
PINSKY: All right. Hold on, slow, we`re taking call here. Calm yourself, Laura.
Denise in New York -- Denise, what do you got for us?
DENISE, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Dr. Drew. Good to talk with you again.
PINSKY: Yes, ma`am.
DENISE: I think Steve is full of crap because for the simple fact is this, my first husband and I, I stepped out of the marriage because we were separated. I remarried a second time. I did everything my husband wanted, everything. I cooked, clean, no problems in the sexual department. Everything.
He had a job out of town. He stepped out on me. I gave him no reason to do it whatsoever.
PINSKY: Well, yes. Let`s talk about --
DENISE: Then the woman let me know that they were having an affair.
PINSKY: That`s painful.
DENISE: I called to him and I said to him, you have a choice. You can be with her, I have no sentiment, no rejection, no anything, no hard feelings. If you want to be with her, fine.
If you don`t want to be with her, if you want to come home, you come home. And let`s not repeat this. He came home and we`ve been happy together for 21 years.
PINSKY: That`s good, Denise. Way to set the law down.
But, Laura, let`s talk quickly about why men and women cheat.
PINSKY: We`ve been talking about men cheating, men cheat because they are cheaters, men cheat when they have opportunity, men cheat because sometimes they are drinking and a substance is involved with it. Sometimes it`s an intimacy disorder.
But women cheat when they are not getting their emotional needs met in a relationship. Wouldn`t that be true?
BARON: That is true.
And it is also about -- people cheat in general because they can, because they are in a relationship where their partner is allowing it on some level.
PINSKY: Denise allowed it in the beginning and --
BARON: And then put her foot down -- and bravo to Denise. That is a perfect example -- ladies, a perfect example of what you need to do when you know that your man is cheating. But women --
TITUS: I don`t agree with that, Dr. Drew, at all.
PINSKY: Matt? OK.
TITUS: I think people cheat -- I think people cheat because there`s something wrong within themselves.
PINSKY: And the relationship.
TITUS: You can be -- yes, within the relationship and themselves. A lot of times with themselves. I don`t believe it takes two to tango. I`ve seen situations where one spouse has been literally perfect and the other one is not right inside.
PINSKY: Matt, let me close it out -- let me close it out by saying, the spouse who was perfect was attracted to the one that wasn`t perfect and that`s their contribution. The fact that it was a fitted relationship and they probably would do it all over again and that`s the thing about people, particularly that have a tough child, they repeat it, repeat it, and repeat it.
"Days of Our Lives" star Gloria Loring hid a dark secret -- speaking of childhood traumas. She hid this for years. She`ll be joining me live to discuss.
And next up, we`re adding relationship blogger Nikki Joel who has been watching the show live from the green room. I wonder if she wants to chew any faces off as well.
And I`m going to get to your calls. Helen, I think you`re up next. We`ll get to you in just a second.
PINSKY: Nikki Joel is a lifestyle and relationship blogger. She joins us.
NIKKI JOEL, LIFESTYLE BLOGGER: Laura, let`s take these guys down.
BARON: I`m in.
JOEL: This is outrageous what they are saying.
BARON: I know.
JOEL: This really hits close to home for me so let`s go get them.
PINSKY: So, go ahead, what`s your response to Steve`s theory? I understand -- can we bring something you just told us during the break, that you have some news?
JOEL: I mean, I have a friend today who just found out that her husband is cheating on her. And I don`t know anybody who thinks that that is OK to do.
PINSKY: Or that she caused it?
JOEL: I mean, look --
PINSKY: Do women think that way already? Already when a guy cheats, they start thinking, what did I?
JOEL: What did I do wrong? I mean, really, you know what? Here it is. Cheating is a symptom of a bigger problem. It`s not a solution.
PINSKY: Yes. And, Matt, I think you are saying the same thing, right?
TITUS: Yes. I really believe that it`s something within the person that cheats. Remember the thing I said the other week about being rejected. It`s usually the person who`s doing the rejection, the rejecting, that has the problem, not the person that is rejected.
It`s the same thing with the cheating. You don`t have to cheat. It`s not necessary.
Leave the relationship. Save everybody the pain, and look like a superstar. It`s much easier said than done, though. There`s no question about that.
PINSKY: Let`s take a call. Helen in Alberta -- Helen.
HELEN, CALLER FROM ALBERTA, CANADA: Hi, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: How are you?
HELEN: Good. How are you?
HELEN: Well, I can understand what Steve is saying to some extent.
PINSKY: Hold on now. Hold the phone.
PINSKY: You know, Laura has been smoking spice because she wants to eat people`s faces off. So, be careful, Helen.
HELEN: I could understand what he`s saying to some extent. I do believe that certain actions from women can maybe make their men want to cheat. But I would think that an adult man who loves his wife would be able to sit her down and have a conversation with her, explain to how he`s feeling as opposed to going out like an adolescent and sleeping with the first person he bumps into.
BARON: Helen, I can agree with you in the fact that bitchy isn`t cute. If that`s what is pushing him out of the house, then fine. But he has to take full ownership of his actions. It isn`t about her.
PINSKY: And, guys, and, Laura, when somebody is -- in my experience, when a woman is really acting aggressive and hostile in a relationship, there`s something going on in the relationship. Maybe something wrong with her, depressed, some problem they could help her. Get her help.
But, Matt, I do want to go to you. Let`s ask this -- how do you know before you cheat that the problem is in your spirit, in your psychology and what are the signs that something is going wrong?
TITUS: I think that you are actually intimidated by the goodness of your partner and you believe that you don`t deserve it. So, you somehow self- destruct and make sure that you`re not worthy of it so you do something bad, like obviously cheat, and go to someone else so you know that you prove that you`re unworthy of this wonderful partner. It`s a self- fulfilling prophecy of insecurity.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Steve.
SANTAGATI: No, sometimes she`s a nagging, untrusting, manipulative, phone- checking nightmare.
PINSKY: Steve, maybe you go for women --
BARON: I`d hate to be your girlfriend.
PINSKY: Maybe, Steve, you`re attracted to women with personality disorders. Maybe that`s part of the problem.
BARON: Besides the fact maybe the dude, like present company, is deserving of that. We are saying that this is women insecurity. It is not.
Ladies, this is called intuition. If you need to check your dude`s phone, there`s a reason.
PINSKY: Steve, go. Steve?
SANTAGATI: I`m going to make it really simple for you -- and, Dr. Drew, you`ll understand this because this is your field of expertise. Human beings work on one thing, positive and negative reinforcement. If you`re always being negative with me, and judging me and giving me a hard time about stuff, I may come to you the first couple of times and say, hey, honey, it`s cool, and talk it out like an adult.
But if you keep doing it, you build that wall and you`re no longer my best friend, you`re my nemesis. And I don`t want to sleep with my nemesis because it`s a turnoff and I don`t want to be a loyal husband to you --
PINSKY: Nikki, why don`t you just breakup?
JOEL: You`re an infant. I mean, honestly, what are you, a kid in the candy store? Something doesn`t go your way?
SANTAGATI: No. You sound delusional.
PINSKY: Matt, go ahead.
TITUS: Steve said two things. He said two things. One thing I thought was genius. Monogamy is not the natural state of man, of any man. It`s -- you know, marriage is almost like a morality cage to keep men to stick with one man. It`s not natural.
PINSKY: We`re in the (INAUDIBLE) with all of you guys. I`ve got to take a break. This whole conversation has become the morality cage, I think.
So, listen, I`ve got to take a break. The cheating debate continues. We`ll pick it up with Matt and your calls.
Also, I have soap opera star Gloria Loring opening up about her dramatic childhood. There she is right there in our green room. And the dramatic this had on here own intimate relatioships. Maybe we`ll get to the cheating conversation there, too.
Be right back.
PINSKY: Steve Santagati, Matt Titus, Nikki Joel, Laura Baron are here. We`re taking your calls about cheaters and what makes people cheat.
And the ladies are getting very upset here. You know, we were talking during the break and one thing you guys were talking about is how clueless people are sometimes. That`s going to be the most painful story of all, that somebody really thinks they are in good relationship and they wake up --
JOEL: And they are totally in the dark.
BARON: Of course.
PINSKY: Is that what you see a lot of?
JOEL: Absolutely. I see it a lot.
PINSKY: Does it happen most to men or women?
BARON: It happens more to women but I will tell you this. Those are relationships that are primarily business relationships. Maybe they got married later in life and they both wanted to have kids and there really wasn`t the foundation there. Maybe he was making more money and she wanted a comfortable life. People stay for all sorts of reasons and distance their intimacy as a result.
PINSKY: And, Matt, I think they are saying the same thing that you are saying, there`s a problem in the relationship. You say there`s a problem in yourself and you feel like you deserve that person or that relationship. We are all kind of saying the same thing. I can easily list these things because I agree with all of you on this. That there are -- this is actually well studied and people that work in these fields know it`s a fact. But it`s complicated and messy, as relationships often are.
Chanelle in Florida?
DR. DREW: Chanelle? Chanelle?
Is she there?
Next caller, please.
Pat? Where are you, Pat? Louisiana?
CALLER: Oh, my thing is -- no, women do not make men cheat. If people would go more accordingly to the Bible, when the Bible says, when a man and women are put together, let no man put them under. They can only divorce when the other one cheats on the other one.
DR. DREW: It`s an interesting point.
Matt, is divorce too easy in this society?
MATT TITUS, RELATIONSHIP COACH: I think it is. And I think that people use it as an out if they feel as though the grass is greener somewhere else.
TITUS: Remember, does marriage really work, though? Does marriage work? 53.1 percent of all marriages fail. What`s going on here? That`s really the question. Does the institution of marriage work right now?
LAURA BARON, RELATIONSHIP COACH: It doesn`t matter if the institution --
BARON: -- if the institution works of not. It matters -- do you have the Do you have an ability to stay true in your relationship? What is the contract that you signed? What is your bottom line?
DR. DREW: Nikki --
TITUS: Wouldn`t that be marriage?
TITUS: What are you talking about?
NIKKI JOEL, LIFESTYLE RELATIONSHIP BLOGGER: I think when you get married, you make a vow, and the underlying vow is honesty. And if you can cheat on somebody, there is a real lack of a moral chip right there.
DR. DREW: Steve, do you want to comment? You started all of this.
STEVE SANTAGATI, RELATIONSHIP COACH: No. I think it`s funny because you`re taking away the fact that we are all human beings. Strip away all the clothes and cell phones with fancy lights and the building but we`re human beings, guys. We have certain predispositions, things that we like to do, things that we want to do. And I think it`s best to work that out before you drag someone else into your melee and do something like --
DR. DREW: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Listen to what he said.
DR. DREW: Wait, Steve, I think he said that -- I think that`s what he said. Did you not say, Steve -- I want to make sure we heard you --that you shouldn`t be getting married until you`re ready. You shouldn`t be committing in a relationship until that`s what you`re sure you want to do. You shouldn`t attach yourself to a fantasy. It should be something that you`re committed to and what you`re saying -- Steve is giving me the yes.
BARON: -- is don`t step outside of it. Then end it.
BARON: I believe -- I agree with Steve Santagati.
DR. DREW: Yes. It`s gross.
TITUS: There`s a site called zipit.com.
DR. DREW: Hang on, Ladies.
TITUS: Steve`s right. There`s one thing I say, it`s called, men are no different than they were, you know, 200,000 to a million years ago. I call them cavemen in suits. It`s the same kind of thing. You know, I think a guy isn`t even eligible for marriage until he`s over 35 years old.
BARON: That, I agree with.
TITUS: Because he`s had to have had tons and tons of sex. He has to know what he likes. The men I deal with here in Manhattan, when I do my matchmaking, they are like 45 years old. They don`t want any more of the straight hair from the meat-packing district that`s retarded.
They want a woman of substance. They want a woman they can live with. Ad they know sex is going to die soon and they better like that woman or another marriage isn`t going to work out.
DR. DREW: All right, Lynn in Arkansas.
Lynn, what have you got?
CALLER: Hi, Dr. Drew.
DR. DREW: Go ahead.
CALLER: I just wanted to say that the whole thing to me is ridiculous and it just shows one of the major problems with society as a whole, with the whole blaming everyone for everyone else`s problems.
BARON: -- behavior.
CALLER: Absolutely. Everyone should take responsibility for their own behavior and stop pointing fingers at everyone else. Another human being cannot make another person do something they don`t want to do in the first place.
DR. DREW: Steve, go ahead. Steve?
SANTAGATI: Listen, can a man make you feel sexy and pretty? Can a man make you feel special? Can a man make you feel safe? Yes, he can, with his actions. And you, as a woman, can make a man feel noncommitted. It`s that simple. It`s not forcing him to the action. What I am saying is that you are creating an environment for us to exercise our genetic proclivity towards infidelity.
DR. DREW: Hold on, Steve. I think Laura is going to chew your face off.
Marcello, Marcello. What have you got? Iowa, Marcello.
CALLER: Hi, Dr. Drew. I agree with Steve because a woman makes --
CALLER: She builds that wall and that wall tears a man down. You know what I mean? Because if -- if he has like -- he`s lonely, she`s mad, she doesn`t want to be touched at all. And she gives that energy towards her man, just don`t want to be with her anymore. It`s ridiculous, you know.
BARON: Ladies, do not believe this load at all. Marcello, Steve --
JOEL: Don`t get married.
BARON: Let me just say this. Let me just say this. It is not the woman`s responsibility to make you whole. If you don`t know how to be in a relationship, don`t get involved in a relationship. If you can`t find a woman that is going to treat you well, that is going to lift you up, then stay back.
DR. DREW: Steve, I`ve got to interrupt you. This is clearly something that we could go round and round about every day. I think it`s a good place to stop. We don`t have good models for sustained relationships in this country. Matt is right. Our families do fall apart. Our marriages don`t work. That doesn`t mean we should give up on it. People are healthier. They are happier. it`s a higher plane to plain to achieve. I think we should strive to do better. Certainly, our children are healthier when our relationships are healthier. And matt is right. If it`s not working between you, oftentimes, the place to look is you and then you`ve got to learn how to tolerate and sustain closeness. There`s a lot of richness there that most people miss.
Thank you to this panel.
Great calls as well.
We`ll have you guys back. No doubt you`ll be back again.
Steve, just don`t know if you and Laura can be in the same room.
Next up, she`s a former soap star, actress, mom of pop star, Robin Thicke, and a sex abuse survivor. Gloria Loring is here to share her remarkable journey when we come back.
DR. DREW: Fans of daytime TV remember her as Liz Chandler from the NBC soap "Days of Our Lives."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLORIA LORING, ACTRESS, SINGER, AUTHOR & ABUSE VICTIM: I`m right here.
DR. DREW (voice-over): Gloria Loring is also a successful recording artist and the mother of pop star, Robin Thicke. In her new book, "Coincidence is God`s Way of Remaining Anonymous," we learn the life- changing role that coincidence has played in Loring`s life, and how it led to the revelation and healing of a deep, dark secret.
(on camera): And Gloria Loring is with me now.
Gloria, I think people are going to feel very privileged to hear this story because it`s something that maybe you know, I certainly know, that affects so many millions of people, particularly women.
DR. DREW: What happened?
LORING: Yes. I was 3 years old. I`ve written it but I`ve never actually told it out loud. Here we go. Bear with me, folks.
LORING: Bless your heart. That`s why you`re so good at what you do.
I was 3 years old and I was awakened by the crushing weight of my father who was drunk on top of me. I, in re-experiencing this later in life, felt my side of my shoulder go numb, this side of my face go numb. And could smell the old sickening smell of old alcohol. When somebody drinks every day, the alcohol just comes out of their pores.
DR. DREW: The acetones.
LORING: Yes, that terrible smell. My hip went numb. He was in a state of arousal. It kind of fractured me in that moment. A part of me broke off and just tried to escape, you know. You separate. Parts of yourself just get shut off because you`re no longer safe in the world.
I remember when I heard about all of those young men with Sandusky and I -- it just hurt my heart so much because I just thought, you know, I know how it is to go through your life and never feel safe in your own body. That is a line that, once it`s crossed, is so hard to repair.
I remember I went to a retreat once and they said, what would you like to get out of this weekend, and I said, I would like to feel safe. I didn`t even know that I had been sexually abused at this point. And two women came up and said, was your dad an alcoholic or something like that.
DR. DREW: They could sense it?
LORING: Yes. And I said, do you think something happened and I said maybe. I said, yes. When you use the word "safe," we know what that`s about. So I think there`s so many of us.
DR. DREW: You`re describing something specific that happens to very young sexual abuse survivors because their body becomes the source of the distress. And so --
DR. DREW: -- their body becomes dangerous and painful. And a lot of people with chronic pain have experienced this because the body then is disconnected from yourself, from your brain. And in order for it to tell its tale of woe, it can only do it through primitive means like pain and numbness and --
LORING: And sometimes uncontrollable rages, unaccountable crying, grief that would -- sometimes I would hide in a closet and just sob, and I didn`t want anybody to see because I thought, what, am I losing my mind? Is something wrong with me? I didn`t know where it was coming from. I knew that there was a low-grad agitation in my life and I was always waiting for something to go wrong. And that`s why I was always such a perfectionist about everything. You put on a mask and people say, how could you be so vulnerable off stage? Well, when I was on stage, I was the Gloria. I had a mask.
LORING: Off-stage, I was it was a very different person. It`s that discovery how you can bring yourself back into your wholeness that is a long pres process.
DR. DREW: Yes. Yes.
LORING: It doesn`t happen over night.
DR. DREW: It`s rewiring your brain.
DR. DREW: It`s bringing -- you said "shattered." Biologically, that happens and you have to rewire it all back again.
LORING: That`s what it felt like in that moment, as if parts of me just flung off into the universe and I was left unconscious in some ways.
DR. DREW: The other thing is that kids become good victims later. What there other victimization or did you repeat the traumas in any way?
LORING: Now that I look back, from the standpoint of being a mom, et cetera, I see how, if I had a young girl, oh, my god, the situations I put myself into. Fortunately, most of the time I escaped, but I would go places with people, men that I didn`t know. One time, it didn`t turn out very well. He was drinking. I didn`t smell it. It was familiar to me, so I was attracted to it. He kept showing pictures of his fiance. He said, come on, come up to my room for minute. I`ll get my jacket and we`ll go out and join the others. He jumped on me in the room.
LORING: Yes. It was going to be a rape but I fought him off. I was so traumatized. And I had bruises and mascara running and I was so -- I was so ashamed that I couldn`t tell anyone. I thought it was all my fault. You see, this is the thing. You know, we take the shame on ourselves and the shame colors everything we do.
DR. DREW: Well, shame is an outcome for sure and low self esteem from these experiences. But it`s interesting, the raucous, as you told me during the break, conversation we had before, was blaming women for things that have happened to them. Somebody that`s been through what you`ve been though would, of course, you take that all on and feel that you`re responsible.
LORING: We`ve got to take away from the blame thrower, as my friend says. Step away from the blame thrower. Responsibility is different thing.
DR. DREW: Yes.
LORING: Once we start to see that we keep attracting very difficult type of relationships, difficult people, difficult circumstances, if we can wake up and say, why am I doing this to myself, instead of blaming and shaming because we`ve already had enough of that.
DR. DREW: Don`t blame the world. You`re the only constant and so take it --
LORING: You`re the full person.
DR. DREW: If I can go to Maria real quickly. Let`s hear her question and we`ll go ahead and take a break.
Maria, go ahead.
CALLER: Yes, I completely identify with Gloria. My father raped me when I was four years old.
CALLER: And for children -- your parents are supposed to be your protectors. They are supposed to be the ones that teach you about future relationships. That kind of breaks you and you struggle to go through life trying to find that normal relationship. There is none of that. I have even what they call body memory.
DR. DREW: Yes.
CALLER: I felt it.
DR. DREW: Yes.
CALLER: I feel it in my body.
DR. DREW: Yes.
CALLER: It`s completely -- I have been through this 40 years, 40 years that I`m still trying to find my path through therapy but that is, to a child, children are never supposed to think of adults --
DR. DREW: And, Maria, your point about -- people somehow think that there`s got to be an explicit memory, like a visual memory of what happened. No, it`s the imprint it leaves on your body and the nervous system.
LORING: It`s the smell. My therapist said, you may not have the cognitive or the language skills, but you have the senses. You have the smell, the taste, the touch. Parts of my body going numb, I don`t make that up. I can`t make that up. I can`t even do that as an actress.
I can`t even make parts of my body go numb.
DR. DREW: We`re going to go back to your book and talk about coincidence and how it played a powerful way in Gloria`s life. Did coincidence affect you? If you`ve been through these sorts of experiences? Maria very courageously just shared that with us. We`ll hear more of these stories. I know these as common things.
But you have to switch gears for a quick second and do our country votes.
(voice-over): We asked you, there are many issues in this election, which one do you want the next president to address?
Shelly writes, "Not redistributing wealth/income. Leave my money alone. Tired of paying high cost to just live in an apartment. I`m already paying high cost for college and gas prices."
DR. DREW: I am back with actress, singer, songwriter, and sex abuse survivor, Gloria Loring. She is also the author --
LORING: I am not adding that to my resume.
DR. DREW: Sex abuse survivor? Well, whether you like it or not, people are going to be very moved by that. I think it`s a great privilege that people will feel very grateful for you.
The book is called "Coincidence is God`s Way of Remaining Anonymous."
Let`s talk about coincidence and the affect it`s had on you.
LORING: Well, that`s a quote from Albert Einstein. I was able to raise a lot of money for diabetes research, et cetera, and someone said -- I said, isn`t that an amazing coincidence, and they said, "Well, coincidence is God`s way of remaining anonymous." And I wrote it down. And I started to see over the years, these coincidings of meaningful events would happen to me and some amazing and mysterious ones. And I started to count up those stories and, at some point, I knew that I wanted to share them, but it actually took me 12 years from the time I first made my notes about these stories to bring this out. I think part of it was sharing these deep secrets, because when we have shame and humiliation early on, we`re so afraid of looking bad in people`s eyes. I think I`ve gotten beyond that now.
DR. DREW: Did that sort of spiritual experience help you in your recovery?
LORING: Yes, very much so. I`m a certified yoga instructor. I started studying ancient principles, philosophies, about how the mind works.
DR. DREW: So mindfulness really helped you?
LORING: Mindfulness, yes. Paying attention. I started to get in touch --
DR. DREW: Getting back in your body.
LORING: I started to get back in my body, because I would get out of my mind. I would sit quietly and watch, oh, there`s anxiety. What is anxiety about? Oh, that`s right, so-and-so said that yesterday. OK. Put it down. Breathe. Put it down. And I`m able to do that now. It`s been 23 years I`ve been doing this practice.
DR. DREW: That`s your next book.
LORING: Yes, it actually is.
LORING: It`s called "Lesson from a Soap Opera, How to Drop the Drama." I already started it.
DR. DREW: Oh.
LORING: And literally, you take it -- it`s like putting -- like a basketball player putting a basketball on the side and you just take it and say, put it down. You might have to do that 47 times. But you just keep putting it down. But you have to practice. You will play the way you practice.
DR. DREW: Take a call from Helene in California. Helene?
LORING: Hi, Helene.
CALLER: Hi, Dr. Drew. How are you?
DR. DREW: We`re good. What`s going on there?
CALLER: Hi, Gloria.
CALLER: I just wanted to say, I am also a sexual abuse victim from my father. And I wanted to say how courageous it is for to you come on the TV and tell your story because it is such a secret that society is not comfortable with talking about.
DR. DREW: Helene, does it help you feel less shame and more esteem when somebody like this sort of steps up and talks about this so publicly and openly and, by the way, with great recovery and ease?
CALLER: I think that her being so public and candid about it forces people to discuss something they`re not comfortable that we`re not used to discussing. And if you don`t talk about it, you can`t heal from it.
LORING: Right. That`s so true, so true. Yes, you have to bring it out into the light. It`s kind of like -- oh, you`re over here. It`s kind of like -- somebody described it as the hamburger in the closet. You keep saying, gosh, my life stinks, the room stinks. You never open the door and there`s this rotten hamburger in the closet. And finally when you open the door and you bring it out, you say, this is awful, this is terrible. Let me get rid of this. And then I have to wash my hands. And then I aerate the room. You have to keep working at it again and again. And then there`s the memory of the stink. You know, you have to keep putting it down, keep reinvesting yourself and the goodness.
DR. DREW: Change healing is a long-term process.
LORING: It`s a process but it`s possible.
DR. DREW: Got to take a break. Call us with your phone calls for Gloria Loring at 1-855-373-7395. We`ll take a quick break.
DR. DREW: All right, I`m here with Gloria Loring. We`re having a very interesting conversation.
You are clutching something that is important to the first chapter of this book?
LORING: I know. We had such great calls. This is a little card that says, "Expect a miracle." And this is the card -- it`s all dirty because it was in the bottom of my carry bag -- that foreshadowing me raising money for diabetes, after promising my son that I would do something to help end his diabetes. It`s a great story. It`s in there. But that --
DR. DREW: Let me just paraphrase it. Your faith showed up in him being served with -- raising all of this money for him?
DR. DREW: Yes.
LORING: My commitment to him. I`m going to do something for you.
DR. DREW: Gloria, I could talk to you but we`re running out of time.
Quickly, Laura in Connecticut, like in 20 seconds can you deliver us a comment there, Laura?
CALLER: Hi, Dr. Drew and Gloria. I`d like to know if you have confronted your father and --
DR. DREW: I`m going to hold you, Laura. We have got just limited time.
LORING: No. My father has gone. I did not. I talked it over with my therapist and he said that you probably won`t get the apology or the completion that you need but you can heal this for yourself. And I really have. And I wrote a song called "A Song of My Father," in which I forgive him and I say, and because of all that we`ve been through, I do love you. I have to give him the same forgiveness I would like for myself for the mistakes I`ve made in my life.
DR. DREW: Gloria, we thank you so much. You`re very brave. We appreciate having you.
The book is "Coincidence is God`s Way of Remaining Anonymous." And there it is.
And a reminder, everybody, "Nancy Grace" begins right now.