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Police Missed Crucial Casey Anthony Evidence
Aired November 26, 2012 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Orlando. Tot mom, Casey Anthony, walks free on murder charges in the horrific death of her 2-year- old little girl, Caylee, Caylee`s tiny body decomposing just 10 houses from the Anthony home. And after being caught on video at Target buying push-up bras, lingerie, cases of beer with somebody else`s checks, after tot mom tries to sell books and TV appearances, bombshell tonight. Damning, damning computer evidence that would have landed tot mom behind bars for life overlooked, botched, computer searches on, quote, "how to kill with poison and suffocation" on the family computer the day 2-year-old Caylee murdered.
The toddler dies of those same causes. And now we find out tot mom`s defense team knew about this damning searching all along.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: This is bizarre. This is the life of Casey Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have some stunning revelations in the Casey Anthony case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... sheriff`s office that investigated the case admits it missed strange Internet searches made on the Anthonys` home computer the last day Caylee was seen alive.
CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF MURDER: I`m just starting to figure out my new computer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators missed a search on a computer in her home for, quote, "foolproof suffocation."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But failed to notice the evidence in computer records they held for three years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were waiting for the state to bring it up. And when they didn`t, we were kind of shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could this evidence have led to a conviction?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) very excited and (INAUDIBLE) my ear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As prosecutors went to trial without 99 percent of the computer`s browsing history from the day Caylee died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was simply shocking that this evidence went undiscovered until after the fact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Damning evidence that would have landed tot mom behind bars for life on murder charges overlooked, botched computer searches on, quote, "how to kill with poison," "how to kill with suffocation" on the family computer with tot mom logged in the day 2-year-old Caylee was murdered, the day she was last seen alive.
How was it overlooked? It was never given to that jury. Would it have made any difference?
We are taking your calls. Out to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, what do we know?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, these new computer searches have just come to light. The search, as you mentioned, it`s for the phrase "foolproof suffocation", and the significant is that that search was allegedly done on June 16th, 2008, the day that Caylee Anthony was last seen alive, the day we believe she died.
Now, the jury never heard about these searches, Nancy. Jose Baez and the defense team knew about them. But the state says they just made an oversight. They did not know that these searches were done from a home computer in the Anthony home the day that Caylee was last seen alive.
GRACE: I don`t understand it. I don`t understand how you can overlook computer searches on the home computer while tot mom, Casey Anthony, is logged into the computer, yet you find searches from way back in March.
I mean, Ellie, isn`t it correct that Cindy Anthony, the grandmother, tot mom`s mother, took the fall on computer searches regarding killing with chloroform, claiming that she was looking up chlorophyll?
We`ve that testimony. Rack it up, Liz. She took the fall for those damning computer searches back in March. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Do you recall in March of 2008 you doing any types of searches for any items that might include chloroform?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Yes. I started looking at chlorophyll. And I was concerned about my smallest Yorkie. We have two Yorkie puppies. And the smallest one was having some issues where she was extremely tired all the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And somehow, according to Cindy Anthony -- and many people claim this was perjury, she is not being prosecuted for that -- chlorophyll somehow turned into chloroform. We know tot mom`s car trunk was reeking with chloroform. It turned up in all the tests.
But Ellie, how can you get computer searches from back in March on killing with chloroform, neck-breaking, accidents at home that result in death -- those were some of the March searches, but on the day the little girl is murdered, you`ve got tot mom plugged into the computer, and they don`t get those searches?
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Now, our affiliate, WKMG, did a thorough analysis of this. And what they found is that what the state -- what prosecutors received from the Orange County sheriff`s office was an analysis of just those searches done on Internet Explorer that day, that Casey Anthony actually may have used Firefox. It was her preferred browser, apparently.
And they missed about 1,200 entries in the computer history done on Firefox. That`s how the Orange County sheriff`s office apparently missed this search for foolproof suffocation.
GRACE: Ellie, Ellie, stop because you`re making my chest hurt. Are you telling -- I heard a figure thrown out that about 99 percent of the searches...
JOSTAD: That`s right.
GRACE: ... done that day when Caylee is murdered, her 2-year-old little girl is murdered, about 99 percent of those searches they didn`t get?
JOSTAD: Right, because they weren`t checking the Firefox history. They only had about 17 sort of general searches that came up on Internet Explorer. And you know, most people have a couple of different browsers on their computer. Apparently, Casey usually used Firefox. But the state didn`t...
GRACE: What do you mean by browsers? Are you talking about Google versus Yahoo!? Explain.
JOSTAD: Right. Well, it`s the browser that you use to search the Internet and get you to a site like Google. So she apparently -- the computer was set up with both Internet Explorer and Firefox. She used Firefox, or someone using that computer used Firefox...
GRACE: OK. Hold on.
JOSTAD: ... to search for foolproof suffocation, and they missed that.
GRACE: Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert, Raleigh, North Carolina -- Ben, isn`t there a way where you can look at all the searches, all computer activity on a certain day?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Absolutely, Nancy.
LEVITAN: This is just amateur forensics. I can`t believe that this was missed. It`s impossible to think that a decent forensic lab would not have turned up all these searches.
Every e-mail that is sent out from Casey Anthony would indicate what computer program she used to send that e-mail, and that would, as Elisa (ph) mentioned, would be a browser. A browser is a computer program that you use to get on the Internet.
GRACE: You mean like Internet Explorer -- Internet Explorer, when you click on that, it gets you on the Internet. And then you type in whatever you want, be it AOL or Google or Yahoo! or HLN -- your browser is the mechanism that gets you to that.
GRACE: And there are a number of browsers like Internet Explorer. She used...
LEVITAN: Internet Explorer and Firefox are the two most popular. The fact that Internet Explorer was her major browser and that they didn`t recognize that is impossible forensically. It just shows the lack -- you know, the lack of ability of the Florida department to do forensics. Forensics is a fairly new field.
GRACE: It`s incredible to me. I am a little literate on a computer. I know my way around it a little bit for work purposes. But even I know that you can search a computer and get every single spot that was visited and every search that was entered on an entire day.
I`m just stunned -- and let me tell you who`s joining me right now exclusively tonight. The sleuth, the amateur sleuth who helped uncover these computer searches that were missed by police, Isabel Humphrey is joining us. She is on the site Crimesleuth all the time. She is very interested in solving unsolved homicides, finding missing people.
Isabel, are you with me?
ISABEL HUMPHREY, ATTORNEY WHO REQUESTED PUBLIC RECORDS FROM SHERIFF`S OFFICE (via telephone): I am.
GRACE: Isabel, thank you for being with us. How did you happen to look for these searches?
HUMPHREY: Well, honestly, Nancy, I knew that there was a computer analyst and an Orlando reporter who had been trying to get the -- a copy of Casey Anthony`s hard drive for about two years.
And I knew about that, but I wasn`t really too motivated to help him out until I heard that Mr. Baez was talking about this foolproof suffocation search and blaming it on George Anthony.
And so I just did a public records request for the remaining Internet history files that had not been released to the public, and I received them very quickly. It was a very easy process.
GRACE: So you got this through Freedom of Information Act. Now, how did you analyze -- how did you manage to analyze these computer searches when the police couldn`t do it?
HUMPHREY: Well, they were in raw data format. So I forwarded them to the computer analyst who I knew had been looking for those records for some time. I forwarded those to him. He ran them through a computer forensics software program. It was actually an updated version of the program used by the Orange County sheriff`s office, as I understand it. And as soon as it`s run through that program, it`s very easy to read through.
GRACE: Joining me right now is Isabel Humphrey out of Phoenix, Arizona. She is not only a lawyer, but she`s an amateur crime sleuth. She likes to solve crimes. She wanted to look at all the computer evidence and simply filed a Freedom of Information Act request and got all this data. She runs the raw data through a format, or has it done, and she reads all this.
And Isabel, when you saw this, what did you think?
HUMPHREY: Well, I was pretty stunned. I mean, when I heard that Mr. Baez was saying that there was this foolproof suffocation search done the day that Caylee died, honestly, I didn`t believe it could be true because I couldn`t understand why it hadn`t been released previously and why it hadn`t been brought up at trial.
So I did, of course, first thing, confirm that the search was, in fact, done. And then I immediately saw that the entry right before the search was a log-in to Casey Anthony`s AOL instant messaging account. And in the middle of the search, there`s an instance where there`s a Facebook friend accepted and a MySpace comment viewed. And so it was obviously -- I thought, obviously, the work of Casey Anthony.
GRACE: Isabel Humphrey, how I wish you had been on the tot mom case.
Joining me right now out of Orlando, WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer. Bill, I think it would have made a huge difference. I mean, all those searches the jury heard about were back in March. This was the day the child is murdered, and it is clearly tot mom logged on because, you remember, George and Cindy Anthony had open accounts. You could just plug in their handle, and you don`t have to have a password. She was the only one in the home that had a pass code you had to know, a secret pass code. And she`s going to all of her accounts in the middle of these searches.
BILL SHEAFFER, WFTV LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, you have to believe that this would have been evidence that may have resulted in a different verdict. Look, it was at a time when only Casey could have done those searches. She goes on to her space within minutes of looking for foolproof suffocation. It tightens up that timeline, and circumstantially, it does provide a manner of death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: There really hasn`t been all too much going on except now for this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suspicious Internet searches made on the Anthony home computer on the very last day that Caylee was seen alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A search for foolproof suffocation.
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) the first (ph), just the beginning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Googled foolproof suffocation on the afternoon Caylee died.
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) again, the first of many.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And visited a Web site that describes advice on how to kill with poisoning and suffocation and plastic bags.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ll probably do another one later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What could have been a key piece of evidence. Would the jury have let her walk if they`d known about it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Evidence botched at tot mom`s murder trial. She was on trial for murder one in the death of her 2-year-old little girl, toddler Caylee, Caylee`s body found literally rotting just 10 houses from the Anthonys` home.
And now we learn of damning computer searches done on the family computer at a time when nobody else was there but tot mom, the only adult that could have logged on.
Now, it`s my understanding, Steve Helling, writer for "People" magazine, that the defense knew about these searches all along. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe because their client told them. But they anticipated the state bringing up these damning searches the day Caylee was actually murdered and they were going to blame them on George.
But the times don`t work -- the times of these computer searches, he was already clocked in at work, wasn`t he?
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Yes, you know, the timeline is -- would be totally thrown out if this had come out, I mean, because, you know, where was George at the time, and that type of thing.
And yes, the defense knew about this. It`s in Jose Baez`s book. And you know, he was waiting for that shoe to drop and it didn`t drop. And it just goes to show that, obviously, the defense knew kind of what happened that day a lot more than what they said in court. That`s for sure.
GRACE: Now, explain to me, Ellie, how the defense was geared up for this to come into evidence, that tot mom was on the computer, the family computer searching for foolproof suffocation and death by poisoning the day Caylee last seen alive, the day she is murdered? How are they going to blame that on George Anthony?
JOSTAD: Right. Well, according to the defense, these searches were done at about 1:52 PM, when they say George Anthony would have still been at home. He didn`t need to leave to go to work until about 2:30.
Now, others, though, who have analyzed this evidence say that these searches were done at 2:52 PM, which would mean that George had already left for work and that Casey would have been back at home, searching on the computer. And they used the evidence that Isabel explained that...
JOSTAD: ... she was on these other Web sites.
GRACE: ... first of all, before you say another word, when did you get on a first-name basis with tot mom, Casey Anthony? When did that happen in this mix?
JOSTAD: We are certainly not on a first-name basis, Nancy. I apologize.
GRACE: Well, you just called her Casey, but hey, that`s on you. So Ellie, how do I know -- convince me that this was a search by tot mom.
JOSTAD: Right. Well, the evidence is this, Nancy, that somebody logged onto Casey Anthony`s AOL instant message account using her screen name, Caseyomarie. Then that person used Casey Anthony`s computer account to get on the Internet, that they searched first on MySpace, and then they answered actually another request that was (INAUDIBLE) you know, George Anthony did not use MySpace. Casey Anthony did.
So whoever was using the computer was on Casey Anthony`s account, was searching other Web sites that we know Casey Anthony frequented and her father did not at the same time this search for foolproof suffocation was done.
And we know George Anthony made it to work at 3:00, so he couldn`t have been home searching the computer at about 2:50.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here`s what we found on the afternoon Caylee died. At 2:50, after George says he left the home for work, browsers fire up using Casey Anthony`s password-protected account. At 2:51, a search for foolproof suffocation. Baez says George did the search for foolproof suffocation and did so at 1:51 that afternoon, not as other computer programs indicate, 2:51, when Casey was apparently home alone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are taking your calls. Back to Bill Sheaffer joining me from Orlando. Also with us, George and Cindy Anthony`s former lawyer, Brad Conway.
Brad, I guess it`s no surprise to you that they were planning to blame all this on George. But my question to you, Bill Sheaffer, is the jury went, Eh, when they heard searches of chloroform, peroxide, acetone, inhalation, neck-breaking, shovel, making weapons out of household products.
Now, granted, those searches were done in March, the jury heard, and Cindy took the fall for all those damning searches. Chloroform was searched 84 times, according to one expert. Now, I bet if I look on your computer, I won`t find that, Sheaffer. So why would this have made a difference, the timeline?
SHAEFFER: I think it`s the timeline. And there isn`t any wiggle room for Casey to say it wasn`t -- Casey Anthony to say, It wasn`t me who was doing those searches. It tightens up that timeline.
And look, Nancy, this was a circumstantial evidence case. You bring everything. You leave nothing on the table. This was a critical piece of evidence. It could have turned the tide.
But I will say this. Maybe this jury wouldn`t have taken this evidence with any greater weight. Maybe unless they saw a confession from Casey Anthony, they weren`t going to convict and maybe...
GRACE: I disagree.
SHAEFFER: ... they`d even question that.
GRACE: I think this may have made the difference.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Just a little surreal how much things have changed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really doesn`t take more than 15 or 20 minutes to look through the entirety of the Internet history.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They did look through the searches on one search engine, but they didn`t go to Firefox. And that`s where this search for foolproof suffocation...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t understand how no one ever knew about this evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecution had no idea that Web page was visited on the Anthony family computer that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are seeing NBC "Today" show video. Bombshell tonight. We learn in the aftermath of a not guilty verdict on tot mom, Casey Anthony, in the murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee, her body rotting just 10 houses from the Anthony home.
Bombshell evidence botched, damning computer searches made from the family computer while tot mom was logged in the day that Caylee was murdered.
We are taking your calls. Out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who bailed tot mom out of jail.
Weigh in, Leonard. Surprised?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, BAILED CASEY ANTONY OUT OF JAIL: Well, it certainly changes everybody`s thinking about their timelines. Me and Rob were talking about it just last night. And it just -- to quote Nancy Grace, it`s a bombshell. As far as the timelines and what everybody thought, did she return to the house on the 18th for the shovel or was it the 19th?
Definitely according to what the young lady there said that explored this, she was definitely on the computer. It was definitely not George Anthony. So it had to be her.
GRACE: But, you know, Leonard --
PADILLA: The question is, was the child dead at a time or was she still alive?
GRACE: It is so brazen and so arrogant of her to have thought that she could do these searches and kill 2-year-old Caylee on the same day and not get caught.
PADILLA: She`s like that. She`s absolutely like that. That`s a Casey-ism as we used to call them back there. She lives her life 20 minutes at a time. And I can just see her sitting there saying, OK, I`m going to go to the computer and I`m going to search. Somebody chimes in with, I want to be your friend on Facebook. OK, I`ll accept you as a friend.
There`s no doubt that that`s Casey. I mean if you`ve ever sat and talked to her in person, you`d understand that that`s exactly what she would do. How does that affect everything else? There`s things like the day the shovel was borrowed, the 2.6 days of decomposition in the trunk of the car, George seeing her walk out with her child, raises questions about a lot of those things.
GRACE: To Brad Conway joining me, this is Cindy and George`s lawyer. Surprised that the defense knew about this all along and was just waiting for it to come up at trial and their big plan was to blame this, like everything else, on your client, George Anthony?
BRAD CONWAY, CINDY AND GEORGE ANTHONY`S FORMER ATTORNEY: No, Nancy, I`m not surprised. They were prepared. They did their homework and they were prepared to deal with it if they had to. I don`t think blaming George would have gone over well. And that`s the sad part of this, is had the investigator done his job, it would have been another piece of evidence for the jury to consider. And it would have fit well, much better with a potential and reasonable cause of death than chloroform did.
Casey Anthony is a liar. And she`s good at lying, but she`s not smart enough to put together chloroform and not smart enough to administer it. However, she is smart enough to cause suffocation of Caylee.
GRACE: Back to Isabel Humphrey, the sleuth, the amateur sleuth who helped uncover this bombshell evidence that was not brought before the jury.
Isabel Humphrey, question, how hard was this to do for you?
HUMPHREY: It was very easy, Nancy. I have never experienced the process of obtaining public records in Florida before. But it`s a very, very simple process. I literally just sent a few e-mails and both the prosecutor`s office and the sheriff`s office assisted me in narrowing the request to something that they could actually give me. And then once I got them, the computer analyst was able to extract the information in the matter of a couple of hours.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Ashley in Indiana, hi, Ashley. What`s your question?
ASHLEY, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Yes, if they have this new evidence, is there any way that they can get her for something else?
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Bill Sheaffer, Renee Rockwell, also with us, Brad Conway.
What about it, Renee?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely not. Can you say O.J. Simpson, Nancy? It is over. It`s put up or shut up. The state of Florida had their chance. And there`s no more prosecution for homicide. Maybe for destruction of evidence, maybe for perjury if anybody talked about it. But the homicide case is over.
SHEAFFER: It`s over. It`s all over. She can`t be prosecuted for anything at all. Jeopardy in this case is absolute. She could come and confess and you couldn`t prosecute her.
GRACE: Brad Conway, how did your clients, George and Cindy Anthony, how are they taking this?
CONWAY: You know, I don`t know the answer to that. That chapter of my life and that chapter with my clients, it`s closed. It`s done. It`s over.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Jenny in Wisconsin. Hi, Jenny. What`s your question?
JENNY, CALLER FROM WISCONSIN: Hi, dear. I lost my daughter in an accident in `09. And she so wanted to be you and go to college. I just want to throw that at you.
GRACE: Thank you.
JENNY: The reason I`m calling is, is there anything they could do against Cindy or even the defense for like some form of perjury since Cindy said that she did all this on the line and everything like that on the Internet?
GRACE: You know, Jenny in Wisconsin, when she was asked on the stand, she was referring to computer searches done back in March. Not the very day this child was murdered. And obviously she is not going to be prosecuted for that.
Maureen in South Carolina, hi, Maureen, what`s your question?
MAUREEN, CALLER FROM SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, I`d like to know, Nancy, why is this evidence coming up now? Why -- when they were -- you know, they had months and months to get all this evidence against them. Why didn`t they find this out? I mean if the -- if the defense --
GRACE: You know, I`m stunned, Maureen. I am absolutely stunned because one of the first things I would do if I knew that she was a computer hound -- I mean, she`s home all day long laying on the sofa eating chips. Of course she`s online. Would be to get every computer entry, every search done in the days leading up to Caylee`s murder, a 2-year-old little girl. Every single thing.
Explain to me, Ben Levitan, you`re the telecommunications expert. How can you ask for just the searches on one single browser like Internet Explorer? Why wouldn`t you ask, give me everything for the whole day?
LEVITAN: Nancy, this is just an amateur mistake by the investigators. I can`t imagine how this was overlooked. You know when Casey Anthony logged in. You know she was active on the computer from 1:00 to 2:00. The computer keeps data files, what they call dat, D-A-T files, of all the activity of that computer. It would have been obvious she went to Facebook. It would have been obvious if she was on AOL. And it would have been obvious she`d been on this browser and if she had opened a spreadsheet and done some calculation, we would know that. This is basic forensic that was just screwed up, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, another thing, out to you, Sheaffer, it`s not just the sheriff`s fault because when you take a case to a jury, it`s on you, too. You`re the one standing up there in front of the jury. You`re the one representing what you say as the prosecution is the truth. And it`s just like me saying, well, you did fingerprints but did you get the fingerprints on the light switch? Did you get fingerprints on the doorknob? Did you look? Did you look here? Did you do this? Did you do that?
Did the prosecution -- were they misled by the sheriffs or was it simply a matter they never said, did you get me every computer entry for that day? Do I have that?
SHEAFFER: It appears that the prosecution asked the right questions. They assumed that they were being provided with all of the evidence within the custody of the Orange County Sheriff --
GRACE: Why do you say that, Bill? Because if I see one browser search, I would say, is this everything? Did you check for everything?
SHEAFFER: I believe that question was asked. But, Nancy --
GRACE: Why do you say that? Why do you believe that?
SHEAFFER: Because you, just like I, were at that trial and you saw the prosecution. And they really didn`t hold back. They didn`t leave one stone unturned. They didn`t -- they opened 1,000 oysters just to find a pearl. The fault of this cannot be put with the prosecutors. It goes back to reliance on your forensic experts at the sheriff`s office who didn`t do the job. And admittedly, admittedly, they said, oh, no, we weren`t asked to look for suffocation. Please, you would go to that account and get all information.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The sheriff`s office that investigated the case admits it missed strange Internet searches made on the Anthonys` home computer the last day Caylee was seen alive.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was simply shocking that this evidence went undiscovered until after the fact.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We thought would be the knockout blow in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So what if prosecutors could have argued Casey Anthony Googled "foolproof suffocation" on the afternoon Caylee died?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Would the jury have let her walk if they`d known about it?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Orange County Sheriff`s computer examiner Sandra Osbourne, asked as to why the evidence never made it to trial, Osbourne writes in an e-mail, "I was never asked to conduct a search for suffocation."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It`s mind-blowing. Would this have been the nail in the coffin for tot mom`s murder conviction? I`m sure the jurors this morning probably said, oh, yes, if we had only known that, it would have been a different story.
But I don`t know about that, Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, New York. I think that they were -- they decided at the get-go, it was going to be a not guilty. And nothing would have changed their minds. But what do you think, Patricia?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Unfortunately I have to agree with you. You know, the last studies done on juror bias and the ugly fact is that jurors tend to make decisions more on emotion rather than the facts. They often don`t know how to evaluate the facts. And this evidence was -- would have been compelling.
GRACE: Well, it`s compelling to me that on the day she goes missing, her own mother is looking up how to suffocate somebody to death and how to poison them to death. And then within a couple of hours, her daughter is dead. To me, that`s very compelling.
To Dr. Kent Harshbarger, medical examiner, forensic pathologist, joining me tonight out of Dayton.
Dr. Harshbarger, is there a way to tell with this degree of composition whether there had been suffocation?
DR. KENT HARSHBARGER, EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Nancy, that`s a very hard diagnosis to make in an intact set of remains. And with this degree of -- you know, the remains were essentially skeletonized. There`s no way to diagnose that. As the medical examiner in this case said, it was based on undetermined cause of death.
GRACE: But we know that suffocation by duct tape, placing duct tape over the child`s mouth and nose and putting her in a plastic bag, I assume that that would suffocate her, especially if she slept through it and was on chloroform.
HARSHBARGER: Correct, right. If the chloroform was there -- although in my mind I don`t know why you would have to duct tape them. But the duct tape and the plastic bag could clearly cause asphyxia and lead to a cause of death. That`s how she was found, but we don`t know, as medical examiners, if the body was alive or dead at that time.
GRACE: Dr. Harshbarger, the botched search on, quote, "foolproof suffocation," to me bolsters the claim that Caylee was duct-taped across the nose and mouth as her -- as the remains indicated and she was suffocated. What do you think?
HARSHBARGER: I agree with you.
GRACE: Ellie Jostad, I want to go back to what Brad Conway said about suffocation earlier.
JOSTAD: Well, Brad brings up a really good point. The state`s theory here was that Caylee Anthony was incapacitated with chloroform, then duct tape put over her mouth. And some of that evidence, court-watchers have said, was a little too confusing for the jurors to understand. All this, you know, off-gassing of chloroform, the way they measured it with a gas spectrometer. You know, if maybe they`d had a more simple explanation of just suffocation, maybe that would have evidence the jury could get behind as opposed to this chloroform search results that we heard about at the trial.
GRACE: Well, you know what, Ellie, I appreciate all the speculation. But this is hard evidence, hard evidence that tot mom was online looking up "foolproof suffocation" and poisoning the day her child was murdered.
GRACE: Was there a duty on the defense? How did the sheriff`s office manage to botch damning evidence?
Out to you, Steve Helling. What`s the fallout from this in the sheriff`s office?
HELLING: Well, you know, I think there`s going to be a lot of discussion about how could this have been missed --
HELLING: And just --
HELLING: Discussion, because I think that`s --
GRACE: Discussion? That`s the fallout? Blah blah blah. That and about $3 will buy me a cup of coffee.
HELLING: Nancy, you know that it always starts with discussion. And fingers are going to be pointed either way and they`re going to probably be pointed as Sandra Osbourne who says, you know, they didn`t tell me to look for this. You know, I look at it and I say either it`s incompetence or it was something that was buried for some reason. And I don`t understand why this --
GRACE: Look, Isabel Humphrey is an amateur crime sleuth. And she found it.
Renee Rockwell, is there any duty on the defense to bring out evidence against their client?
ROCKWELL: Absolutely not, Nancy. And what probably happened in this situation was the prosecutor had the computer first. Once it was done with it, gave the computer or a copy of the hard drive to the defense, at which point they discovered it. No duty whatsoever to give evidence against the client.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Specialist Matthew Ramsey, 20, Quartz Hill, California. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation medal. Loved golfing, snow boarding, baseball. Parents Melissa and Wayne, sister Megan, widow, Merilla (ph), sons, Zachary and Timothy.
Matthew Ramsey, American hero.
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CASEY ANTHONY: And now I have someone to talk to. I`m not by myself. So I`m not bothering the poor dog. Who I`ve adopted and I love. And he`s as much my dog as any of the other pets I`ve ever had. You know? The families I`ve ever had if not more so. I don`t know.
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GRACE: We are taking your calls. Damning evidence just uncovered about tot mom. The sheriff`s office says they overlooked evidence. Guaranteeing in many minds a guilty verdict.
To Lisa, South Carolina. Hi, Lisa. What`s your question?
LISA, CALLER FROM SOUTH CAROLINA: Yes, ma`am. All I want to know is the prosecution did not know about this at the time that it had happened?
GRACE: Well, you know, Lisa, they`re saying they asked. Now that`s what Sheaffer is telling me.
Bill, are you sure? Because you`re suggesting it`s all on the sheriff`s office. That the prosecution did say did you give me everything?
SHEAFFER: I`m not suggesting. I`m telling you that it was asked and it was answered. The state attorney`s office relied on the forensic division to bring forth all the computer evidence available. They did their due diligence.
You know something? I hated that I heard this. It was just like ripping open -- ripping off a scab for me, this verdict. But, you know, I`ve come to realize that the good guys don`t always win. And justice isn`t always served.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Marcy in Connecticut. Hi, Marcy. What`s your question?
MARCY, CALLER FROM CONNECTICUT: Hi, Nancy. How are you? First of all, happy holidays.
GRACE: Thank you.
MARCY: To you and your beautiful children who you share so lovingly with us.
GRACE: Thank you.
MARCY: I appreciate that because my grandsons live a thousand miles away.
In regards to your post about them searching for suffocation, I remember that coming up. But I didn`t think it was the day before Caylee went missing. I thought it was earlier when somebody was doing all of this research that the mom claims she did. Because I remember my mind thinking that perhaps she originally wanted to kill her parents, she was going to suffocate them in their sleep. So that -- it did come up some time that it was found.
GRACE: I think that some of it came up back in March. And Cindy Anthony got on the stand and took the fall on that. This is a much more damning search. And the timeline is crucial here. It`s the day Caylee is murdered. And not only that, it`s absolutely certain that tot mom was the one on the computer.
Everyone, "DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.