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PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT
Fiscal Cliff Negotiations Stall; U.N. Gives Palestinians Non- Member Status; Interview with Mike Tyson
Aired November 29, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PIERS MORGAN, HOST: Tonight: Power lunch, President Obama and Mitt Romney behind closed doors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I also look forward to sitting down with Governor Romney to talk about where we can work together to move this country forward.
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MORGAN: How's that working out? Has the GOP learned any lessons for 2016? My political all-stars go head to head.
And the vote that could derail peace in the Middle East. What the Palestinians are gaining, what Israel thinks it's losing. I'll talk to both sides.
And why a top Senate Democrat calls the vote provocative and reckless.
Plus, a return of the most feared man in boxing, Iron Mike Tyson, unvarnished, as always.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE TYSON, FORMER HEAVYWEIGHT BOXING CHAMP: I never had any happiness (INAUDIBLE)
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MORGAN: Mike Tyson on everything from the state of America...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TYSON: The Republican Party has to somehow -- somehow change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: ... to the state of Lindsay Lohan.
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TYSON: She's not as bad as I was, but she's catching up.
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MORGAN: This is PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT.
Good evening. You're looking at Palestinians celebrating in the streets of Ramallah after a history-making vote at the U.N. that upgraded the Palestinians' observer status from entity to non-member observer state, much like the Vatican.
But what does that really mean to both sides? I'll talk to the chief Palestinian negotiator and to Israel's ambassador to the U.N.
But we begin tonight with the ultimate power lunch at the White House, President Obama and Mitt Romney face to face for the first time since the election. And talk about a picture's worth 1,000 words. Try a million for this one because only one word really you need, which is awkward.
Just after this lunch took place, the president offered a tough fiscal cliff proposal to Congress, one that aides to John Boehner say -- wait for it -- he's already rejected. Of course he has!
Joining me to talk about all things politics, "New York Times" columnist Frank Bruni and Ross Douthat, also a "Times" columnist and a CNN contributor.
How many seconds was it, do you think, gentlemen -- let me start with you, if I may, Frank -- before John Boehner rejected out of hand President Obama's attempt to try and do a fiscal cliff deal?
FRANK BRUNI, "NEW YORK TIMES" COLUMNIST: With $1.6 trillion in new taxes, I think probably half a second.
MORGAN: What is -- I mean, when you see the apparent attempt at a bipartisan lunch going on today between Obama and Romney -- it was all very sweet and everything -- the reality is, the picture was about as uncomfortable as the relationship is between the two sides.
And again, Frank, how do we get to a better place in Washington? How do we get these guys to realize -- let me throw this at you. I interviewed Mike Tyson an hour ago, a fantastic interview in many ways. What really I found fascinating and relevant to this, he talked about when he goes back to the streets that he grew up in in New York, what real people care about. They care about their homes. They care about their jobs. They care about feeding their children. And he got quite passionate about it.
I just don't get that these politicians squabbling in D.C. care about those things enough, or they would stop this politicking over things like a fiscal cliff. What do you think, Frank?
BRUNI: Well, I mean, they care in largest part about staying in office, and one of the problems here is what each individual member of Congress thinks he or she needs to do to stay in office is not necessarily in concert with someone else -- with what someone else thinks.
So I think there are vast ideological differences. There are vast tactical differences. And I think it's hard for everyone to pull back, look at things from a macro level and say, What's best for the country because each person is saying, What's best for me?
MORGAN: Ross Douthat, I mean, from where I sit, having interviewed all the protagonists now for the last week as we head to this incredibly dull 30 days of the same debate being played out -- eventually, we know they'll do a deal. So boring! And so sort of childish, in many ways.
But it seems to me, in the end, this will have to be resolved with the Republicans giving ground on taxation and with the president giving grounds on entitlements. And it really is as simple as that, isn't it?
ROSS DOUTHAT, "NEW YORK TIMES" COLUMNIST, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It is, but the devil's in the details, right? I mean, yes, the president will have to give something on entitlements, and in today's non-offer of an offer, he offered a sort of hypothetical $400 billion in entitlement savings to go with his $1.6 trillion tax increase.
And yes, Republicans will have to give something on taxes, and so you've had Republicans saying, Well, maybe we could cap some rates for the top earners, and so on.
But in the end, you are talking about, you know, deep ideological and philosophical differences and differences of hundreds of hundreds of billions and trillions and -- you know, zero after zero of dollars.
And so, actually -- I mean, yes, it is obviously childish in certain ways to watch, but it's also how negotiations happen, right? I mean, President Obama -- what I think we saw today, was he won the election and he feels like he's sort of partially broken the Republicans. You've had Republican movement on taxes in a way you hadn't had a year ago. And so he's decided rather than sort of play the nice guy, he's going to push much harder and see what he can get.
And that's -- you know, there are important things at stake here, and I'm, you know, more inclined to agree with the Republicans than with the president about what should be done, but I don't think anyone can blame him exactly for pushing at the moment. That's sort of what politicians are supposed to do.
MORGAN: Right. Frank, I mean, on that point, the president clearly feels emboldened, as you would do, by being re-elected.
BRUNI: Should, yes.
MORGAN: Can we expect to see a different Obama? It struck me that the one thing he's not that good at actually is negotiating. If you compare him to somebody like Bill Clinton -- you know, I remember interviewing both President Clinton and also Newt Gingrich. And after a few early skirmishes which led, as we know, to big problems, they then sort of got a new system together where they would get in a room, chuck all the advisers out and get stuff done.
I just can't imagine that happening with Barack Obama and John Boehner. They just seem complete polar opposites.
BRUNI: Well, as you suggested, Obama doesn't really have an appetite for this sort of thing. And we saw that last time around, and if you read Bob Woodward's "The Price of Politics," it's one of the themes that comes through really loud and clear.
He's doing some things differently this time, though, and one thing that I think is very interesting is he's taking his case to the American people and he's doing it day after day.
All of us have talked on this show and in other places about how bad the president has been in the past on selling what he wants to happen, on explaining his policies and really bringing people around to them. And we see him now trying to do that in a more forceful way than he's done in the past. And that may strengthen his hand further.
DOUTHAT: And I think...
MORGAN: Do you think -- sorry. I was saying to Ross, do you think that the deal in the end, when it gets done, as it obviously will get done at some stage -- do you think the Republicans will by then, whether they want to or not, have moved on this thing that Obama says he's adamant about and what he was elected on, as he says, which is this basic tax rate going up by, say, 3 percent? Do you think they're going to end in the end have to acquiesce to that?
DOUTHAT: I sort of do think they will because in certain ways, from the Republican perspective, you could argue that the smartest thing to do is to, you know, vote -- vote to extend all the Bush tax cuts, let President Obama veto that extension, then vote a middle class tax cut and let the top bracket expire. And then Republicans can say, Look, we didn't really break our pledge. Taxes were going to go up across the board. We, you know, did -- we what we could do, and the president wouldn't let us do more.
But I also think that President Obama sees a real percentage for him in getting Republicans to cross the line of agreeing to a rate increase. And that's why I think he's pushing so hard on this.
I think most economists would agree that there's often more advantages in capping deductions than in just going for the rates, but I think there's a real political advantage for Democrats looking ahead to battle after battle that we'll face down the road in getting Republicans to cross that red line. It's sort of a scout, you might say.
MORGAN: OK. Well, yes. Ross Douthat, Frank Bruni, thank you both very much.
The United States opposed today's U.N. vote on the Palestinian observer state bid (ph). Senator Bob Menendez of the Foreign Relations Committee says it could inflame passions throughout the region.
Welcome to you, Senator.
SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D-NJ), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Good to be with you.
MORGAN: Explain to me why you feel so strongly that the Palestinians shouldn't have been granted today this non-member observer state status.
MENENDEZ: Well, what we announced today is that, in fact, should they try to use their non-member observer status for the purposes of pursuing other organizations within the United Nations, such as the International Criminal Court, in an attempt to try to delegitimize the state of Israel or marginalize it, that then there's a consequence here in the Congress of the United States that gives a significant amount of money to the Palestinian authority.
The problem with what I think is a reckless movement by president Abbas is that when morning rises on the West Bank, nothing will have changed as a result of the non-member status that they acquired in the General Assembly today, a General Assembly that's very hostile to the state of Israel. So nothing changes on the ground, and the only way that we will get what we want, which is a two-state, two-people solution, is through a negotiated process.
MORGAN: I mean, Palestinian authority president Mahmoud Abbas -- he says it's not about delegitimizing Israel, it's about increasingly legitimizing a Palestinian state. And in the end, isn't that what everybody would like to see at the end of this very complicated, rather dangerous rainbow?
MENENDEZ: Well, it's interesting. In President Abbas's remarks, he never recognized Israel as a Jewish sovereign state. He never recognized the willingness -- or talked about a two-state solution. He only talked about the aspirations of the Palestinian people, which I understand those aspirations, but those aspirations can only be fully realized through a negotiated process.
And trying to get non-member observer status as a vehicle to seek other opportunities at the United Nations, such as the International Criminal Court, is truly an attempt, in our view, to seek to marginalize and delegitimize the state of Israel.
MORGAN: Let's move to one key settlement that was resolved today. Mitt Romney went to the White House for the first time since losing the election and had a cordial, we're told, lunch for an hour with the president. What do you think went on there? They apparently ate white turkey chili and Southwestern grilled chicken salad. Anything to read into that?
MENENDEZ: I can only say that I think it was magnanimous of the president to invite Governor Romney over, and good that Governor Romney came over. And it shows a spirit of what America should be all about, which is at the end of the day, coming together in pursuit of our common goals as Americans.
And you know, I just hope that we could have the same set of opportunities here in Congress as we deal with our colleagues, who I hope would show the same magnanimousness by saying, You know what? The Senate has passed a continuing tax cut for 98 percent of Americans, put $2,200 in their pockets, continued to keep that amount of money in their pockets at a critical time in our economy.
We can have that passed right away by the House and signed by the president. That'd be a great Christmas gift to everybody, 98 percent of all of Americans.
MORGAN: Well, why can't they just be grown-up about this, accept that there's movement on both sides to be done, and get it done over a turkey at the White House?
MENENDEZ: Well, you know, it would be great to have a celebration. We can start that celebration by passing what's already sitting in the House of Representatives that was passed in the United States Senate, which is a continuing tax cut for 98 percent of all Americans.
And we have put down our down payment towards deficit reduction by saying that we believe that a trillion dollars or so over the next decade of those tax cuts above and beyond a quarter of a million dollars can go to deficit reduction.
Our Republican colleagues need to say specifically what they want to cut. When they say "entitlements" -- entitlements is Medicare and Medicaid. What do you want to do about Medicare and Medicaid? Put it on the table. Let us know. Let the American people know.
Then we can ultimately come to a conclusion and maybe have that celebration you're looking for, Piers.
MORGAN: Senator Menendez, good to talk to you. Thank you very much.
MENENDEZ: Thank you.
MORGAN: When we come back, I'll talk to the leaders on both sides of the Palestinian debate. Do they think today's vote threatens the peace process?
MORGAN: Celebrations in Ramallah tonight after today's historic vote at the U.N. giving the Palestinian authority status of non-member observer state. It's a moment the Palestinians have been waiting for. (INAUDIBLE) the U.S. and Israel sharply opposed.
With me now is Saeb Erakat. He's the chief Palestinian negotiator. Welcome to you.
SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Thank you, sir.
MORGAN: Why does it mean so much to Palestinians that the U.N. today has slightly upgraded your status?
ERAKAT: It's about statehood. It's about Palestine joining the group of nations. This status was granted to us in 1922 when Britain was mandated to rule (ph) Palestine and then reiterated the status in 1947 when the U.N. accorded Resolution 181 partitioning Palestine.
And today, after 20 years of negotiations, having recognized the state of Israel right to exist with peace and security on '67 line, having negotiated with them in good faith for almost 20 years, they continued their settlement activities, fait accompli policies dictations, inaccession (ph) of Jerusalem, unilateral steps, we came to the United Nations not to confront the U.S. and not to isolate Israel or to discriminate (ph) Israel. We came to preserve the two- state solution.
We have a derailed peace process due to the settlement activities by the Israeli government, and President Mahmoud Abbas decided to come to the U.N. in order to put the peace process back on track.
Imagine that the articles of the resolution specified a two-state solution, a state of Palestine to live side by side with the state of Israel on 1967. And then we see some congressmen and some senators and some Israeli government officials going out of their minds, threatening doom and gloom.
What is the crime we're committing? For God's sakes, we're saying state of Palestine to live side by side with the state of Israel in peace and security. I hope that you'll ask your Israeli guest tonight that Saeb Erakat, on behalf of the Palestinians and the PLO have recognized the state of Israel right to exist...
MORGAN: Well, I will ask him that. I will ask him that.
ERAKAT: Ask him whether he accepts the Palestinian state right, whether he recognizes the state of Palestine on '67. Don't let him speak about two states. Let him utter the numbers, 1-9-6-7. That's the key. That's the magic numbers, here 1-9-67, two states on 1967 lines.
So we came to the U.N. to preserve peace. We came to the U.N. to preserve the two-state solution. And that's our truth tonight.
MORGAN: OK, but the Israeli position, as you know, is that they think it's a breach of trust because questions of statehood, they think, should be approached through two-party talks. Now, doesn't that make more sense? There's not going to be any constructive settlement until the two sides actually get together and negotiate one.
So the essence of a Palestinian state, the validity of it, the reality of it, cannot happen until you guys all sit down and thrash out the devil of the detail.
ERAKAT: That's true. I agree with you. We need to negotiate, or (ph) as specified in the resolution that was voted upon today. Piers, it seems to me that people don't read. The resolution we submitted for a vote today specifies a call for accelerated negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis in order to solve all core issues. That is an article stipulated in this resolution that was voted by two thirds plus six of the nations on earth.
And we want to negotiate. We have met with Mr. Netanyahu many times. But when he was given the choice between settlements and peace, he chose settlements. When he was given the choice between dictation and negotiations, he chose dictation. And now with this resolution, yes, the rules of the game are not the same. Now Palestine has become a country under occupation '67 lines...
MORGAN: Do you believe -- do you believe -- let me ask you this. Do you believe that after the cease-fire was called last week -- there seems to be a collective international will that this may be the right time to actually get a settlement done. Do you believe that is in reality what could happen here?
ERAKAT: Absolutely. That's what we're here for. And I think the lessons from the war against Gaza last week proved one thing, that Mr. Netanyahu argued with us that he wants to stay and to keep his army in the Jordan Valley for 40 years, and then, you know, the lesson we learned, and we hope that this will be an eye-opener for Israelis, that it's only peace that can provide security for both of us.
ERAKAT: So no one is ruling out negotiations. On the contrary, we want to resume negotiations, but we don't want the negotiations to be for the sake of negotiations. We want a timeline. We want honest brokers. We want a set of to do or not to do things from both sides. We urge the Israeli government to stop settlements and join us in the negotiations so we can make the year 2013 a year of peace.
MORGAN: OK. Dr. Erakat, I'm going to cut you off because I get your position. I'm going to move now to the other side. Thank you for joining me, sir. I appreciate it.
Israel is condemning today's U.N. vote. With me now is Ron Prosor. He's the Israeli ambassador to the U.N. Welcome back to you, Ambassador.
RON PROSOR, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Thank you, and good evening.
MORGAN: You heard Dr. Erakat there, pretty outspoken, pretty blunt. He wants me to spell out to you 1-9-6-7, two-state solution. So message delivered. What is your response?
PROSOR: Piers, you know, I was there at the United Nations, as you know, and I listened carefully because I thought, you know, today, we will hear a speech by a leader like Sadat who would go to the end of the earth to achieve peace.
What I heard was a speech like everyone else, full of hatred, full of blame, full of distortion of history and facts. And in a sense, what happened today shows that we need more solutions than resolutions because the only way forward are direct negotiations.
When we made peace with Egypt, we negotiated. It was hard. It was frustrating. But we didn't -- it wasn't imposed from the outside. When we did peace with Jordan, it was the same thing. Now President Obama in 2010 stood up and said, you know, You have to reach an agreement. It can't be imposed from the outside.
What the Palestinians did today basically doesn't change anything for Palestinians on the ground tomorrow. Young people will stand up, more expectations, higher frustrations. And at the end of the day, the distance (ph) that Abu Mazen did, instead of flying 10 hours to New York, he could have driven 10 minutes over from Ramallah to Jerusalem, sit down with Benjamin Netanyahu, without any preconditions, and talk about the major issues that are important for both sides to solve.
MORGAN: Do you think a deal can actually get done, or are we just basically just going to see a lot more posturing before more missiles start ricocheting around on both sides?
PROSOR: Look, as you know, I was -- and I think Dr. Erakat was with me on the negotiation table. It's tough. It's hard. But you really have to sit there, understanding that the only way forward are direct negotiations.
And what we saw today was, especially after I was here two weeks ago, you saw someone declaring statehood on what? Forty percent of the population in Gaza he doesn't control. He hasn't seen them with binoculars since 2007. Just think of someone's constituency that he doesn't represent. So what are you coming -- what are you jumping forward?
Israel has always reached out for peace. That's what we want to do. It's important for us. We know that this is important for the Palestinians...
MORGAN: Are you prepared -- let me ask you this, Ambassador. In Northern Ireland, which is a parallel I've drawn a few times because I had a local interest in it, obviously. But Tony Blair in the end got a deal done there, finally peace, after a lot of appalling terrorism on both sides, from the loyalists and from the IRA. He got a deal by sitting down as the prime minister of Great Britain, sitting down opposite people he knew had been terrorists for the IRA, and basically biting the bullet.
Are you guys prepared to sit down with Hamas leaders and actually deal directly with people who many believe now have more authority than the Palestinian authority?
PROSOR: First of all, thank you for asking me because I heard you talk about it once, and being Israel's ambassador, former ambassador to the court of St. James, you would agree with me that even the craziest of crazy, Northern Ireland, did not claim London as the capital.
We have Hamas that doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist. What do you want me at this stage to negotiate with them? How big the coffin, how deep the hole, what flowers to invent (ph) to get to my funeral?
At the end of the day, we're dealing with a terrorist organization. We went out of Gaza never to look back into Gaza, and what are we getting? We're getting missiles day in and day out.
MORGAN: But I know this argument, Ambassador.
PROSOR: I know, but...
MORGAN: I know this argument.
PROSOR: ... what I'm saying is...
MORGAN: Let me just -- let me just say this, sir. (INAUDIBLE) say. The point is, though, you have to bite the unacceptable bullet eventually. You have to just do that. That's what happened in Northern Ireland.
PROSOR: Well, we're biting...
MORGAN: ... and they now have mounting prosperity from that peace. So isn't that what has to happen? I know it's unpalatable. I know it makes a lot of Israelis' stomachs churn. But until you do it, I don't see how you get a settlement.
PROSOR: Well, first of all, I think we showed intangibles (ph), OK? And this is why it's important, especially today. We gave tangibles in order to -- and we gave tangibles when we made peace with Egypt, with Jordan. Also on the Palestinian side when we signed the Oslo agreements, we gave tangibles. Today, the message from this resolution says, Hey, to the Israeli people, you sign agreements, tomorrow morning they can be breached. What do you think the Israeli citizens would think for tomorrow morning?
The bottom line is that, yes, we have to sit down, and yes, I truthfully believe that if both sides are serious, we can move forward.
MORGAN: OK. Ambassador...
PROSOR: And all it needs are good people on both sides, and I think we have (INAUDIBLE) .
MORGAN: Ambassador, that is good to hear. Thank you for joining me. I appreciate it.
PROSOR: Thank you.
MORGAN: Coming next, Iron Mike Tyson is here, wearing the gloves and getting ready to spar with me. Yes, you heard me. It's an amazing interview.
MORGAN: Mike Tyson over the years. He is one of a kind in and out of the ring. A boxing champ, he's had his challenges and triumphs. And he is back with me again tonight. Mike, how are you?
MIKE TYSON, FORMER HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD: I'm doing great. Thank you.
MORGAN: I want to talk to you about a few things in the news. Because a lot of things, it seems to me, are things that you'll have a view about. First of all, President Obama re-elected. You must have been a happy man.
TYSON: Man, man, man, that's -- I don't even know what to say about that. That's just something that we never in America -- I'm talking about Americans in general, not just black Americans -- just Americans in general thought we would never even view, but just to witness that and just the population that he has -- it's just amazing.
MORGAN: You think he's done a good enough job to deserve being re-elected?
TYSON: Absolutely. It's just the Republicans did such a bad job not to get elected. He's just awesome. He's just awesome. The Republican party's going to have to change their whole way of handling politics in order to change, because people are changing.
MORGAN: Why are the Republicans so out of touch?
TYSON: We have to have some Republican representative and he has to tell you. I have no idea.
MORGAN: That's very diplomatic of you, Mike.
TYSON: It's true.
MORGAN: You're becoming diplomatic in your old age.
TYSON: -- becoming very truthful, because it's just unbelievable, inconceivable how people still have the same mentality.
MORGAN: When you go back to your old streets and you meet your old guys and so on, what do you think the real cares and fears of the average American on the street are right now?
TYSON: Health care. There's people that haven't been to the doctor in 20 years, seen the doctor, because they can't afford it. And man, there's just hunger, homelessness. And we're talking about the land of plenty. So it's just difficult.
So people -- we're in dire straits right now as far as hope. I believe Obama and Mr. Biden, vice president, give the people in that desperational need that hope.
MORGAN: You've had times in your life when you've had absolutely nothing, no money, no hope, nothing. You've had times in your life when you've had hundreds of millions of dollars. Then you lost it, and now you're getting back there again. Tell me about what the difference is, psychologically, when you have nothing, when you have money. Where is real happiness throughout that process?
TYSON: Real -- from my perspective, I can only tell you -- as you're asking me, from my ordeals in life and challenges. It all comes from the inside. I never had any happiness (inaudible) -- that's how come I was always chaotic. I was addicted to chaos. I am looking for happiness on the outside somewhere and it really doesn't exist out there in the world.
So it has to be within. It's mostly like an inside job. I learned all this stuff when I went to my rehab, my rehab stint, I got involved with the recovery program. And I realized that this is what happiness is, what we make out of it. You know, the reason why I'm not in trouble anymore, that I'm not in problems with any women, I'm not fighting with anybody in clubs, because I'm not involved in that lifestyle anymore. Being involved with these programs, these recovery programs, helped me have some kind of barometer for my life.
MORGAN: How much has your one-man tour helped you? Because I went to see it with my sons in Las Vegas. And they were completely gripped by your story and the way that you tell it. Very eloquent, very passionate, very honest, good and bad, about the stuff you've been through. But every time I see you now, you seem even calmer, like going over everything that's happened in your life has calmed you down. You've come to terms with all of the bad stuff.
TYSON: I'm calm now because I have my wife in my life and my children. But I don't -- see, when I do my show, I don't do it as Mike Tyson doing the show. The show wouldn't last five minutes. I start talking about my life and I start feeling sorry for myself. So I look at myself, this is just an actor portraying Mike Tyson, talking about Mike Tyson's life. I have to do it from that kind of exterior because if I don't, I'll fall apart. I'll feel sorry for myself.
I was poor and my mother was on welfare and slept with a lot of men or something like that. I'll start feeling sorry for myself, in that perspective. Even though it turned out well.
MORGAN: When you see somebody like Lindsey Lohan -- she was in trouble again yesterday in New York, arrested for assault and so on -- clearly a very troubled girl, been in and out of jail now. You went through all that process when you were younger. She's got problems with fame, with her parents, with all of it. What advice could you give somebody like that?
TYSON: You know, I wanted Lindsey to win so bad. I want her to win so bad. And it all comes down to, like I was explaining before, you do what you have to want to do. She's not as bad as I was but she's catching up. She's going to get there soon. And it's just a bad, dark place to be.
MORGAN: What does she need to do, Mike, to get out of it?
TYSON: She needs a good support system. She needs somebody. She needs an epiphany. She needs this paradigm shift in her life, to realize that everything that she learned in life, even the good stuff that allows her to succeed in life, is all a lie and how we have to start all over, find out what's true and what's not true.
MORGAN: Do you know her? Have you met her before?
TYSON: I've met her, yes.
MORGAN: What do you think of her?
TYSON: I think she's an awesome person that's just got to get it together. Maybe she believes she has it together. I think she's a good person. And I don't think she's the person that the media makes her out to be. No one could be that person. She just can't be that person, you know. Probably spoiled. You know, we get upset when we don't have our way and things don't turn out the way we want to be, our life terms is just kicking us in the butt.
I don't know. And sometimes we can't handle it. And we deserve as human beings to have our breakdowns. Unfortunately for her or somebody like me, we do it in front of hundreds of millions of people. That's not fair, but it is what it is.
MORGAN: Let's take a short break. Let's come back and talk a bit of boxing through Justin Bieber, who you helped.
TYSON: I didn't help him. He knew how to fight before. I can't teach somebody to box like that the first day I meet them.
MORGAN: I am also going to show you footage of me fighting against Manny Pacquiao that may unnerve you. Watch out for the left hook, mate. Freddy Roach is still having surgery.
TYSON: He's too fast.
MORGAN: No, you're not seeing things. That really is Justin Bieber training with Iron Mike Tyson, who is back with me now. I watched that. He's not bad, is he?
TYSON: No, he's real good.
MORGAN: He had a few moves. Not much power, to be fair, but I thought he had all the moves.
TYSON: I don't know. If he hits, you might think differently. Look. Watch that. Boom, you take that on the face, think hey, that's nothing, Justin. Try again.
MORGAN: Did you enjoy that?
TYSON: Yeah, I really did. I was impressed that he knew what he was doing.
MORGAN: What was he like? TYSON: He's an awesome little kid.
MORGAN: He's really tiny, isn't he?
TYSON: He's average size. Not that tiny.
MORGAN: What did you talk about?
TYSON: His mother likes birds. He saw my pigeons and we just hung out.
MORGAN: You talked about pigeons?
MORGAN: Does he keep pigeons?
TYSON: No, but I believe his mother had birds.
MORGAN: Really. Do you still keep pigeons?
TYSON: I have at least a hundred at my house now, yes.
MORGAN: You love them, don't you?
TYSON: Yes, that's what I do.
MORGAN: What is it about the pigeon?
TYSON: I can' tell you. It's just that's what I do.
MORGAN: When you're with them, what do you feel?
TYSON: I feel like I'm in heaven. I just feel like I don't have to hear from my children, my wife or nobody. I'm just looking at my birds, and I'm happy.
MORGAN: You're totally at peace when you're with them.
MORGAN: Amazing. You have always been like that with them?
TYSON: Always. Always. If I didn't have my pigeons, my marriage would be a mess.
MORGAN: Really? So your wife's happy about the pigeons.
TYSON: She loves them.
MORGAN: I want to show you a bit of footage.
TYSON: She's trying to get them out of the garage so she can put her car in the garage. MORGAN: How selfish of her.
TYSON: I said a car? These are living creatures that have breath. They have a heart and you're going to let them freeze outside, so they can't go inside because of a car? A car? A car doesn't have a heart. It gets you into accidents. It gets flats.
TYSON: Runs out of gas. It costs you money.
MORGAN: Pigeons never run out of gas.
TYSON: Never. Never.
MORGAN: I want to show you some footage, talking of never running out of gas. This is one of the up and coming pugilists in world boxing in action.
MORGAN: Watch the left hook.
TYSON: Oh! Come back, Freddy. Oh!
MORGAN: Boom. Boom.
TYSON: You're nothing but -- boom!
MORGAN: That is the famous Freddy Roach, Manny Pacquiao's trainer. Manny is there as well.
TYSON: You're a schoolyard bully. That's all you are. Look at him. Look how small he is. You know he's suffering from some kind of illness and you clocked him.
MORGAN: You have trained with Freddy Roach.
TYSON: Yes, but I didn't clock him.
MORGAN: He told me that you once knocked him clean out.
TYSON: I never knocked him. He must of went in the air a little bit, but he came back.
MORGAN: He said --
TYSON: No way. Listen, I got proof. Somebody said (inaudible) I came back, said come on, right hand, left hook, right hand, left hook. Nothing ever happened. Going right hand, left hook, right hand, left hook.
MORGAN: I said, Freddy, of all the people you ever trained, who was the most dangerous. He went, when Mike Tyson was in a bad mood, you just didn't want to be there with the pads on.
TYSON: Oh man. I love Freddy. Freddy's awesome.
MORGAN: What did you think of my left hook technically, though?
TYSON: I think that it was really horrible.
MORGAN: Let's turn to something more serious. Hector Macho Camacho died last week, very sad story. Police say they found a lot of cocaine in his car. He was shot dead. His family had to turn off the life support. Another tragic victim of an ex-boxer who clearly was struggling with his life. Did you know Hector?
TYSON: Yeah, I knew Hector. Hector started before me. He was a little bit older than me. I watched him fight a lot on television as a kid. He was one of the guys that we looked up to from the streets. He was a real street guy so we looked up to him.
Man, he was amazing to watch. He was just -- personality for the times was just amazing. He's just -- he should have had a reality show.
MORGAN: How hard is it, Mike, for people who have been at the top of boxing, with all the adrenaline, the buildup to these fights for months; then you get in there, the adrenaline rush, the public going crazy, and then the actual fight; and then suddenly it's all over; you don't have it in your life anymore?
TYSON: Yeah, then you go to drugs, too. You try to get that high again. But then you realize all the drugs, all the meth, all the cocaine, all the liquor, you can't produce that high no more. You can't produce that high. Then you realize that high comes from within. So many of us entertainers, just people with a lot of money in general, we all failed in that. And try to succeed and get happiness through substance.
MORGAN: Do you still -- last time I interviewed you, you gave me the feeling that you're not completely confident that you won't blow up again. How do you feel now?
TYSON: Well, I don't put myself in those situations. I never look at myself as this could never bother me again. Once I think that way, I'm looking for my next hit. Once I feel this is -- this is how I think. Once I think I'm the man again, I can never get high -- any moment I'm ready for the next line. That's just who I am. That's how much of an animal I am when it comes to drugs and addiction and stuff. I'm really a nasty animal.
That's how come I'm so happy that it's changed my life. I'm with my family. I am learning how to be a functioning human being in society. This is just so awesome.
MORGAN: When was the last time you hit a man?
TYSON: I don't know. Maybe three years ago at the airport. Remember that ordeal?
MORGAN: The photographer, yeah. Good shot?
TYSON: Yeah. No, it wasn't. I'm so happy. I was getting ready to hit him with the camera. I'm so happy I didn't hit him with the camera. I wouldn't be here. I'm so happy I didn't do that.
MORGAN: I presume that the paparazzi give you a pretty easy ride now, right?
TYSON: I know how to handle them. I don't want to beat them up no more. I just love them.
MORGAN: Let's take another break, Mike. Let's come back and talk about your Hollywood career. I want to know if you will be in "Hangover 3."
TYSON: No way. They're shooting it now. They don't want me in it.
MORGAN: Wow. Really?
MORGAN: That's outrageous.
TYSON: Unless they call me tomorrow.
MORGAN: Let's discuss this after the break. That's an outrage.
TYSON: Can you beat on a monkey or something?
MORGAN: I want you in that film.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: Mike Tyson in a hilarious scene from "Hangover 2." I'm back with the boxing legend. You are a good actor, Mike. Loved you in those films.
TYSON: Thank you. Thank you.
MORGAN: But I hear you're not in the third one.
TYSON: Listen, I'm just very grateful I was in the first and second one. That did enough for me.
MORGAN: You're the start of the trilogy. They can't cut you out.
TYSON: Hey, I'm just grateful. I'm thankful they let me be in the movie.
MORGAN: I want to just talk briefly about the person I think was the most instrumental guy in effectively saving you. And that was Cus D'Amato. He was your great trainer. When I watched the one man show, you talked so emotionally about him and the way that he took you and turned you into the most ferocious fighter in the world.
But what was interesting to me was what he thought about you as well. I want to play you this from him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUS D'AMATO, FORMER AMERICAN BOXING MANAGER: I often say to him, you know, I owe you a lot. And he doesn't know what I mean. I am going to tell him now what I mean.
If he weren't here, I probably wouldn't be alive today. The fact that he is here and doing what he is doing and doing as well as he is doing and improving as he has gives me the motivation and interest to stay alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MORGAN: When you hear him say that -- he passed away in 1985, I mean, before some of your biggest wins. When you hear him talk about what you did to him and for his life, what do you think?
TYSON: I don't know. I think, wow, this is a hard man. I say, wow, that's awesome that he feels that way. I would never say thank you. I know not to do that. I just know when he said that, he inspired me more to succeed for him.
MORGAN: Does everybody that comes from your kind of background, Mike, a difficult background -- you have this charity, the Mike Tyson Cares foundation, to give children from broken homes a fighting chance, building innovative centers that provide for their needs, for disadvantaged kids. You were one of those kids. Does everybody need somebody like a Cus D'Amato to just get a grip of them?
TYSON: Listen, I don't know if someone needs someone like Cus. Because Cus is not made for everyone. He's a little too rugged around the edges. But everybody needs someone to admire and look up to, that that they want to please. And that's what I had in Cus, somebody that I wanted to make happy, somebody I didn't want to get arrested and have to look at him, somebody that I didn't want to be using drugs, smoking, then have to face him. He didn't have to say words. I was like, oh God, I wish I were dead.
Those are the people that we need. We need people that we need to aspire to be like or look up to, that they bring out the best in us. We know they want us to be the best in life.
MORGAN: Your one man show, you're continuing it. What are you going to do with it next?
TYSON: We're going to go all over, 36 cities across the nation. And these are the cities that asked for it. It's going to be interesting. My first city is going to be Indianapolis.
TYSON: The city I did my time in and stuff.
MORGAN: How will that feel?
TYSON: That's going to be pretty awesome.
TYSON: I'm going to be there and I'm going to be free. I'm going to see my prosecutor, probably. I'm going to see my lawyer and probably my -- I give them invitations to come, of course (inaudible) a lot of money and stuff. That's going to be so cool and stuff.
MORGAN: We're going to take a final break. When we come back, we're going to do a little bit of sparring. Trust me, as you've seen from my left hook of Freddy Roach, I'm not any Justin Bieber, mate.
TYSON: You're going to be Rip van Winkle. You going to wake up 85 years later.
MORGAN: These ears -- these ears are staying on, sunshine.
MORGAN: Back now with Mike Tyson. Mike, I hope you're ready for the main event. When was the last time you put on a pair of boxing gloves.
TYSON: Last time I got my ass kicked.
MORGAN: That -- that is what you call encouraging. Look, we've got about 30 seconds. I want a quick master class from the champ. If I was to really want to knock somebody out, what is the absolutely best way to do it?
TYSON: Knocking out is not necessarily having a hard punch. You see guys get hit with hard punches. The objective is to hit the guy with the punch and not allow them to see it.
MORGAN: How do you hide it.
TYSON: I don't know, you jab.
MORGAN: Easy, tiger.
TYSON: Right there.
MORGAN: I got it. On the run.
Do you know what? Even being near you wearing boxing gloves is intimidating. You're Mike Tyson.
TYSON: I don't have the same stuff no more.
MORGAN: -- when he stood here was an unbeaten welterweight champion. He nearly killed himself even looking at you.
TYSON: Well, if h e didn't do it, I was going to do it. If he didn't do it, I was going to do it.
MORGAN: Mike, I just want to have one quick jab and then we're done OK.
MORGAN. All over. Pacquiao, Tyson, I'm back. "AC 360," you can't do this.