Return to Transcripts main page
NFL Player's Alleged Murder Suicide; Bus Crashes Into Miami Airport Overpass; McAfee Emerges From Hiding; Terror Plot Foiled; North Korea Plans Rocket Launch; Egypt Gets New Constitution; Palestinians Win U.N. Status Upgrade; Cop Buys Shoes For Homeless Man; CNN Hero Award Ceremony Tomorrow; Tobacco Firms Ordered To Admit Lies; Flying With Holiday Gifts; Climbing Out Of Debt
Aired December 1, 2012 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with breaking news on an alleged murder/suicide involving aye player on the Kansas City Chiefs football team. Kansas City affiliate KCTV reports the player who has not been identified allegedly shot and killed his girlfriend then drove to a practice facility at the team's Arrow Head Stadium and shot and killed himself.
NFL.com quotes a police spokesman is saying the second shooting occurred at 7:50 a.m. local time at the team's facility and it was linked to an earlier shooting off site. We're going to be keeping you updated and tracking this story as it develops which is expected to over the course of the next few hours.
Also breaking news out of Florida, there's been a deadly bus crash at the Miami International Airport. Our affiliate WPLG says the bus carrying 32 passengers crashed into an overpass at the arrival terminal. Two people are reported dead. At least 30 people were hospitalized, three of them with critical injuries. We'll bring you details of that story also as they come into us at CNN.
He's wanted for questioning in a killing and has managed to elude police for weeks. Now internet pioneer turned fugitive, John McAfee, has accomplished another challenging feat.
He is giving what our veteran reporter, Martin Savidge, says is one of most bizarre interviews of his career. Martin met exclusively and in secret with McAfee last night. Martin, what happened?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Deb, as you point out, this was really a bizarre story. It happen ever since it unfolded. We're talking about a man who is known to millions of people around the world and who made tens of millions as a result of his software invention.
But when we talked to him and it was a strange conversation, he wanders from being perfectly lucid, perfectly clear and candid and concise to sound what almost sounds crazy. And I wanted to get to him to talk about the murder of his neighbor and was he involved. Here's how our interview began.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SAVIDGE: Let me ask you a couple questions I know the police would ask. Did you kill Greg Faul?
JOHN MCAFEE, INTERNET ANTIVIRUS PIONEER: I barely knew the man. Why would I kill him? He was a neighbor that lived 200 yards down the beach. I did not kill the man. I knew nothing about his death until the following morning.
SAVIDGE: But you did have a stormy relationship or you did have a past with him?
MCAFEE: I spoken 50 words to the man in five years. He would go by my property and complain about my dogs as everybody did. I complained about my dogs. They barked loudly and kept me awake at night. I did everything that I could to contain them. They were getting better.
He owned dogs himself. There is no reason he would have done something to my dogs. By the way, the night before he was killed, four of my dogs were poisoned. My first thought was it's the government, more harassment.
SAVIDGE: You felt the dogs were killed by the government?
MCAFEE: Well, they've done everything else to me. In fact, they already killed one of my dogs. Now they killed four dogs. What is the difference, sir? The morning that I heard about Greg's death, the first thing that went through my mind was, Jesus, they got the wrong man. They were sending a gang of gangsters to come and do whatever, robbers pretending to be a robbery to kill me and they got my neighbor instead.
SAVIDGE: Now John McAfee says since then he reneged that the government somehow killed his neighbor, but he does he maintain he doesn't know who did it. But that raised the obvious question for me, well why not turn yourself in? Why not just talk to authorities because after all, he's not wanted for murder.
He's not a suspect according to authorities here. They really want to ask questions because he was their neighbor and did he have a history. He says John McAfee says he is never going to turn himself in. He's either going to have to be caught by authorities or this murder is going to have to be solved in some other way, but he's not giving in -- Deborah.
FEYERICK: But is there a reason? You describe his behavior as kind of bizarre and corky. Just from kind of an analysis perspective, what is going on in his head? What did you glean from your interview with him?
SAVIDGE: You know, that is something you can't help but try to measure as you talk to this man. Remember, this is the first time -- we heard from him many times on the run. This is the first time we actually saw him. Seeing him changes the perspective. He seems very clear minded.
He seems to tell you in a very convincing way. He does seem to have a bit of a tremor. I asked if he was on drugs. He said absolutely he is not. But then he begins to tell you this story that seems will be hard to believe of a government that is out to take him down.
He says because he didn't pay a bribe. So it goes from the very clear and credible to the almost outlandish. One thing that is certain though, John McAfee feels he is running out of time. That the walls are closing in.
He's extremely paranoid and he is worried that authorities are just a few steps behind him. Whether that's true, we don't know.
FEYERICK: All right, Martin Savidge for us there. Thanks so much. We'll continue to follow that which is a fascinating story. Thank you.
Well, two brothers are under lockup in South Florida accused in a frightening terror plot. The men originally from Pakistan were arrested Thursday in Fort Lauderdale.
Prosecutors alleged they were conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction here in the United States. As well as providing support including money, housing, transportation to terrorists. A third brother says the charges are baseless.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love my brother. He is innocent. They never did anything wrong. We live together. We tried make life here every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Well, the suspects were ordered held until the next hearing which is set for this coming Friday.
North Korea's leader plans to launch a long range rocket within days. The U.S. says a launch is a highly provocative act, threatens peace and security in the region. It could also raise tensions with North Korea. They think the rocket launches are really cover for ballistic missile testing.
And we're looking at pictures from Cairo University in Egypt where thousands of Egyptians are chanting slogans in support of the president. Mohamed Morsi is being given the country's new constitution today.
The day after it was approved in a hurry, but it will have to be approved by the people in a vote two weeks from now. Not everyone is happy about the new constitution. Angry crowds are protesting against President Morsi and the new constitution in Tahrir Square. Our Reza Sayah has the details.
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There doesn't seem to be an end to the demonstrations here in Cairo. Another mass protest here in the square, tens of thousands protesting President Morsi and the draft to this new constitution. Some of the president's fiercest critics here are women, women activists. They don't like the way this constitution was drafted. They don't believe they were represented and the panel that drafted the constitution, and here's what else they're saying, we don't trust the president and the Muslim Brotherhood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at all the countries. Now they want to screw Egypt.
SAYAH: When you say they, who is they?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Muslim Brothers, all these groups. The Muslim Brothers are -- here they're not Egyptians. They are an international organization.
SAYAH: So you don't trust them at all?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course, not.
SAYAH: You don't trust the Muslim Brothers?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, all these people. We don't trust them. They use the relation to push us to do whatever they want.
SAYAH: How much longer you willing to come out here and protest?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every day until it's done. Step down! Step down!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it should begin from zero.
SAYAH: But he says if you don't like it, go vote. What's wrong with that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, sure, we will. I mean, but we want him off and we want all his people off.
SAYAH: Those were chants of cancel or annul in Arabic, women here, other anti-Morsi protesters calling on President Morsi to cancel the draft of this constitution. They say they're not going to leave until he does so. In the meantime, President Morsi giving no indication that he's going to back away from thinks position. Reza Sayah, CNN, Cairo.
FEYERICK: An update on an alleged murder/suicide involving a player on the Kansas City Chiefs football team. Kansas City affiliates KCTV reports the player who has not been identified allegedly shot and killed his girlfriend then drove to a practice facility at the team's Arrowhead Stadium and then shot and killed himself.
NFL.com quotes a police spokesman as saying the second shooting occurred at 7:50 a.m. local time at the team's facility. It was linked to an earlier shooting off site. We're going now to a Kansas City spokesperson who has further developments as to this alleged murder/suicide.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DARREN SNAPP, PIO, KANSAS CITY POLICE: A little before 8:00 this morning we got a call in regard to a shooting at a residence and she was taken to a local hospital where she died a short time later.
Immediately after that actually about 10 minutes after that, we got a call here at Arrowhead Stadium to the practice facility in regard to a person in the parking lot armed with a handgun.
When the officers arrived and pulling up and observed a black male who had a gun to his head and he was talking to a couple coaches in the parking lot. As officers pulled up and began to park, that's when they heard the gunshot. It appears he took his own life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: The player has yet to be identified. But, of course, we'll keep you posted on the very latest.
The U.N. votes to upgrade the status of Palestinians. Now Israel is ready to build more houses and occupy territory. We have an Israeli politician standing by from Tel Aviv. We're going to ask her what happens now.
And same sex marriage goes from the ballot box to the nation's highest court. We'll tell you what the justices are considering.
FEYERICK: Well, Palestinians in the West Bank cheered after a historic vote at the United Nations, a vote that raises their status and could be a possible step toward official statehood. The vote was on the calendar eight days before fighting erupted between Israel and Hamas militants in Gaza.
The 138 countries voted yes, 41 abstained, nine voted no against giving the Palestinian territories observer state status for Israel and the United States. Here's what U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., Susan Rice said to the general assembly after the vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN RICE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Today's unfortunate and counterproductive resolution places further obstacles in the path to peace. That is why the United States voted against it. Tonight's grand pronouncements will soon fade and the Palestinian people will wake up tomorrow and find a little about their lives have changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Einat Wilf is a member of the Israel Knesset and is on the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee. She joins me from Tel Aviv. Thank you so much for being here. Let me ask why do you think you were able to only get nine votes despite the lobbying efforts within the United Nations? EINAT WILF, FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND DEFENSE COMMITTEE, ISRAEL KNESSET: I think most countries unlike the U.S. had a deep misunderstanding as so what the vote was about. Many countries -- and I'm talking about countries of good will, not those with a history of voting against Israel and would like to see the country disappear.
Countries especially in Europe thought they were voting for something that would promote peace. They actually thought that by abstaining or supporting this vote, this would promote the idea of a two-state solution.
The reason that they made a mistake is that in doing so, they were essentially privileging one aspect of the conflict which is statehood. Over other important aspects that were not addressed in the resolution. And that's why Ambassador Rice mentioned it was counterproductive.
Because it essentially the Palestinians got an easy way to feel good which is nice and important, but without forcing them to actually take the difficult decisions that would truly lead to statehood at the end of the day.
FEYERICK: But Ms. Wilf, let me ask a question. And that is, you know, the Palestinian Authority, which was sort of almost a secondary player during Israel and Hamas' conflict in Gaza, it seems as if when you say that they thought this vote would promote peace, doesn't it? The Palestinian Authority acknowledges Israel's right to exist whereas Hamas does not. So what is it that people seem not to understand about what this means?
WILF: There are five million Palestinians have lived in the West Bank in Gaza or have citizenship with third countries and yet they call themselves refugees. They have the status by a U.N. general assembly organization funded by the U.S. and many European countries.
And they claim that they have the right to relocate into Israel. This is not an idea that sits well with a two state situation. They do not accept the idea of a two state solution. They do not accept the original petition of 47 that there will be a Jewish state and an Arab state.
This is for example, something that was not in the resolution and this is why it's a problem.
FEYERICK: Well, in the terms of the two-state solution when people think about a two-state solution, they see one state as being a Palestinian territory and West Bank and the other state obviously being Israel as it is now.
But your government seems ready to have the bulling of 3,000 new housing units in occupied territory. The Palestinians have called that an act of defiance. One person called it a heart attack, failed heart attack to the state. Why do this and why do it now?
WILF: In general, I think there is a bit of unconstructive behavior on the two sides. People are taking symbolic acts. This is also symbolic act that plays into the future, not to be exactly realized tomorrow rather than actually sitting down.
The thing is that especially the Palestinian and the Arabs have avoided negotiating with a strong stable and moderate government in Israel for the past three years every time using this or that excuse. They keep avoiding the difficult decisions that will need to be made to establish a state.
It includes territory. It includes finally recognizing that Israel is the Jewish state, which means that five million Arabs who were never born there cannot claim that they have to relocate there. It means a lot of difficult things for the Arab and Palestinians
And by continuing to just take unconstructive steps and engage in kind of tit for tat, they're not going to have a state. At the end of the day we need to remember. In 1947 when the Jewish people were faced with the choice --
FEYERICK: And they offered them the two state solution and they rejected it.
FEYERICK: Israeli Knesset Einat Wilf, we really appreciate your time and we really appreciate your insights and bringing some of these important issues to light for us. Thank you very much. We appreciate and we look forward to continuing the conversation at another time. Thank you.
Well, women can do a variety of things in the military. The ground combat is not an option. So four women and an advocacy group is challenging that rule and suing the defense secretary. Do they have a case? Our legal experts weigh in with their thoughts.
FEYERICK: Updating breaking news on an alleged murder/suicide involving a player on the Kansas City Chief's football team. We're going to a spokesperson right now to give us an update on what he believes happened. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SNAPP: We heard that they had been arguing in the past as far as recently they've been arguing before the shooting occurred this morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: We'll be following this a lot more to find out what happened and what the fight was about. Officials have yet to release the football player's name.
Well, the fight over same sex marriage has gone from the ballot box to the Supreme Court. T he justices met behind closed doors Friday to discuss whether or not they would take up a series of appeals over same sex marriage. They decided to take no action.
Let's bring in our legal guys, Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor who is in Cleveland and Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor. He joins us from Las Vegas.
So, gentlemen, everybody was excited about this. This is about equal protection. There were ten cases -- a total of five cases that's the Supreme Court could have considered on this particular issue. Why did they decide to pick any of them -- Avery?
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, actually, they may very well take one of them, Deb. What's going to happen here is, you're correct, there were ten petitions, five cases, one involving Prop 8, the referendum out in California held unconstitutional, and DOMA, which is the 1996 congressional prohibition on certain aspects of gay marriage.
There are so many cases, the question is, will the Supreme Court take the case? I think it would have really been impossible for the justices to make a decision on Friday. They're going to continue to deliberate and I think we look forward to seeing something going to the Supreme Court. We just don't know which one of the cases the court will accept.
FEYERICK: Richard, you know what's interesting about this is one of the reasons that it's likely they're going to consider this is you have a state law, which is overriding a federal law. Clearly that raises the entire thing up to a whole new level, correct?
RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly. And after the last election, you look very festive today with the red, beautiful.
FEYERICK: Thank you. I'm pre-Christmas.
HERMAN: Three more states approved same-sex marriage. DOMA means for federal purposes the definition of marriage is man and woman. That's the issue here. Wide implications, Deb, Monday the Supreme Court is going to tell us which of the five cases they're going to pick. And we'll rule on this. It will be very interesting to see how this Supreme Court addresses this issue.
FEYERICK: Yes, a lot at stake here. Let's switch gears a little bit. We want to talk about women in combat. There is a long standing policy against training women for ground combat. OK, so maybe they want to protect, you know, the weaker sex.
However, there is a lot at stake here. We're talking about gender discrimination. This is about -- women want to break the glass ceiling. Not only are you sending us into battle unprepared.
But you're also taking away our ability to even climb up in the ranks and get the high paying jobs. So Richard, do you think they do have a substantial case here?
HERMAN: Well, I think they're right. And as Bob Dylan told us the times are changing. And it's time for the military to step up and recognize the fact that women are participating. They're risking their lives and the same as men.
And as long as they're trained, physically equipped with the skills and are physically able to. And I think Panetta will make that realization. I don't think this litigation is the way to handle it. It is definitely accelerating.
FEYERICK: He says women are equal to men and they lack ambition. But let me ask you, Avery then. You know, somebody who is bringing the suit, they are heavy duty. One pilot was forced into the ground training when the helicopter was shot down. She had to rescue others. What kind of case do you think -- what can Leon Panetta argue basically?
FRIEDMAN: I don't think I can construct a sensible argument. I don't know that Leon Panetta personally is unsympathetic. I think this case belongs in the federal district court. It's a 19-page complaint and is based on the Fifth Amendment. A lot of people think that women have always been prohibited.
It wasn't until the 1990s, believe it or not, that the armed forces made it a policy, the jury prohibition exclusion. So the bottom line on this thing is that these indeed are war heroes. They have taken bullets. They put their lives.
They're decorated. This is a case that I think is going to result in getting rid of gender discrimination in the military. It's about time and these war heroes are exactly the people that should be prosecuting this case.
FEYERICK: Absolutely especially when it comes to breaking the glass ceiling. OK, Avery and Richard, we, of course, will be back to talk to you in a couple minutes.
A lot of interesting cases that are coming up including parents of a transgender student who are suing the school because the boy is not allowed to use the girl's bathroom.
All right, well, there has been a reported murder/suicide and that involves an NFL player. We'll have all the details.
Act of kindness has gone viral turning a New York City police officer into a worldwide celebrity for helping a homeless man on a frigid night.
FEYERICK: And we're checking today's top stories. A murder-suicide in Missouri reportedly involves a player on the Kansas City Chiefs team. Kansas City affiliate KCTV reports the player that has not been identified yet shot and killed his girlfriend then he drove to a practice facility at the team's Arrowhead Stadium and shot and killed himself. We'll have details as they come in throughout the afternoon.
And in Miami, a private bus crashed into an overpass at the city's international airport. Our affiliate WPLG reports two people have been killed. At least 30 people were hospitalized, three of them with critical injuries.
On the run and in disguise, John McAfee gives CNN an exclusive interview from his hideout in Belize. The internet pioneer has been hiding for three weeks from police. They want to question him in the killing of a neighbor. McAfee says he believes the government is out to get him and he will not turn himself in.
The stories are trending on cnn.com. This picture taken by a tourist has turned a New York City police officer into an instant worldwide celebrity on a very cold November night. Officer Larry Deprimo saw a homeless man with no shoes. So he dug into his own pocket and bought him a pair of socks and warm boots.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OFFICER LARRY DEPRIMO, NEW YORK CITY POLICE: He looked me right in the face and the smile just went from ear to ear. He said God bless me and be safe. I couldn't believe it was coming out of his mouth. It was such a small gesture. He was so appreciative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Deprimo said he knew he had to help.
When you think of the "Sound of Music," Julie Andrews invariably comes to mind. But Grammy-award winning country singer, Carry Underwood will star as Maria in a live telecast on NBC. The three-hour musical is set to air sometime next year.
Well, tomorrow will be honoring the top ten CNN Heroes of this year. We'll tell who you they are and why they're special.
And the parents of a transgender student sue after the child is told, no, you cannot use the girl's bathroom. We'll see what a judge decided and what our legal guys have to say about this interesting case.
FEYERICK: Remember this Sunday night is our live broadcast of "CNN Heroes, An All Star Tribute." So write it down right now. It salutes the top ten CNN Heroes that you vote on. Of course, we'll name the "CNN Hero of the Year."
Entertainment correspondent Kareen Wynter is live in front of the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles. This is such a great event. People coming out to celebrate folks who have really, you know, changed the lives of so many others. Tell us about the preparations for this award ceremony -- Kareen.
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Deb. Celebrating the lives of every day individuals making huge impacts in their community, well, you can probably hear the noise around me. They're literally trucks hauling in equipment laying the groundwork for tomorrow night's show "CNN Heroes An All-Star Tribute." You could see the red carpet that they are laying down there and also it will be a special day for our "2012 Top Ten CNN Heroes." They're going to be gathering today. They'll talk about their special moment in the spotlight as they prepare for the big night ahead.
Speaking of the big night, Deb, well, we went inside. We took a look at where all the action will take place and brought you this special behind-the-scenes look. Check it out.
All right, I'll tell you what is going on. We look at the auditorium. They're putting that fantastic stage together. They're laying down all the seating placards where all the celebrities will be sitting, all of our 2012 honorees and even honorees from 2011 and years before that.
It will be a very, very special night so many A-Listers coming out not to take the spotlight, but to honor those who truly mach a difference, all of those around us. Neo will be performing. It's such a big night ahead.
You better prepare to pull out that box of Kleenex prepared to be inspired and to just really look at these heroes making a tremendous impact. I'm going to be shedding a couple tears.
FEYERICK: Absolutely so true. I mean, honestly, you cannot help. It is people healing the world a little bit at a time. Thanks, Kareen.
Sunday, of course, watch the "CNN Heroes Preshow Special" right now with us, "Sharing the Spotlight" at 8:00 p.m. Eastern before the main event "CNN Heroes An All-Star Tribute" that starts at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.
A judge says tobacco companies lied about the dangers of smoking. And now they have to set the record straight with consumers. We're going to tell you how they're going to do that. And our legal guys, well, they always have lots to say. Stick with us.
FEYERICK: Well, for decades, major tobacco companies have denied they lied to consumers about the dangers of cigarettes. They're paying the price now. A federal judge ruled they must spend their own money on a public advertising campaign saying that, yes, they did lie.
Our legal guys are back, Avery Freidman in Cleveland and Richard Herman in Las Vegas. This is a pretty big step. Cigarette makers have to put the ads on package warnings that Americans were deliberately deceived, pretty bold move by the judge there, Richard Herman.
HERMAN: Extremely bold. The judge wrote a scathing -- Judge Kessler wrote a scathing decision about how the tobacco companies of big tobacco defrauded United States citizens. What she's doing is calling them out. She's saying, listen, you now have to tell the public the truth. You have to say yes, we lied to you.
Yes, for instance, low tar cigarettes or light cigarettes, there's no benefit to that. That is just one instance. The judge is making them put the corrective measures in advertising campaigns and in some instances on cigarettes themselves. Will it work? Will it do anything? The people that smoke, Deb, I don't know if it's going to turn them away or not.
FRIEDMAN: Sure it will.
HERMAN: It's a bold move like you said.
FEYERICK: So Avery, let me ask you. This is fascinating. And you and I were talking about this. They've got to put a lot of information, including that smoking kills, that it sort of changes how the brain works. There are a lot of points that they're going to have to convey basically saying, look, we know. It's not good for you, buy it anyway.
FRIEDMAN: That's right. That's right. I don't think it's particularly bold. I don't think it's a bold decision at all. In 1803, the Supreme Court said that federal courts have very broad powers. And judge Gladys Kessler did what a judge should do.
Yes, it's a lot of information including 12,000 people die on an estimate every day because of tobacco. So I think that the ruling is completely consistent with what a federal district judge does in terms of remedy. She talked about corrective action. That's what this opinion is.
But take this to the bank too, Deb. Big tobacco is taking this to the federal court of appeals in the District of Columbia. It's been a little bit more sympathetic. But I think Judge Kessler's order stands. I think it will be the law and I think tobacco will have to do that to remedy what they've done.
FEYERICK: Speaking about big tobacco, obviously, Philip Morris USA, a unit of the (inaudible) Group did issue a statement. They're going to be studying the judge's decision. They say, quote, "we're reviewing the judge's ruling and considering next steps."
That is according to Brian Hatchel, a spokesman. You know, what recourse do the tobacco companies have specifically, Avery, because they -- there's a lot of evidence that shows that everything that they were marketing was simply not true.
FRIEDMAN: The substantial evidence, the essential argument that tobacco is going to advance, Deb, is simply that Judge Kessler abused her authority. She went too far, that a federal district court's remedial powers don't go that far. I think the court of appeals has to affirm Judge Kessler because indeed that's exactly what federal district judges are supposed to do.
FEYERICK: OK, so we're going to change gears here a little bit. We want to talk about a transgender fifth grader. For those who don't know what transgender is what that means is there is a little boy and he actually feels that he's a little girl.
So in Maine, a judge rules against the parents because the child wanted to use the girl's bathroom and the school said, no. You can't do it. So, Richard, what do you think about that?
HERMAN: Well, you know, I don't know where the parents are in all this. I don't know to what extent the parents have supported this transgender awakening in this fifth grader -- fifth grader. But in any event, I think the judge's ruling in this particular case was sound.
And I don't think that there's going to be any relief on appeal on this case and interesting. It happens in many cases like this, Deb. This child is no longer in the school district. This child is in a private school somewhere.
All they did was say, listen, you know, you are -- can you not go into this one particular bathroom. We're going to let you go into the faculty bathroom. We made arrangements for you. And that's what you have to do at this point in time. It's a unique situation. They tried to deal with it as best they could and I think the court was within its power.
FEYERICK: Avery, I heard you sort of grunting for a lack of a better word.
FRIEDMAN: Look, I think the court was wrong. This was an action pursued by the Maine -- the government, Maine Human Rights Commission who felt this was a form of harassment. The grandfather who has custody of this child joined with the commission.
I think the judge is wrong in misinterpreting the law. The problem is the government. The commission has to go back to the state legislature to get a clarification. This law was passed under a different governor who was more sympathetic.
I think they have a chance on appeal. In practical terms, he's right in this respect. The child is now gone. It's a matter of principle. It's a matter of law. Let's see what happens. I think there is a shot in the court of appeals.
FEYERICK: Certainly a brave move for the little boy and certainly not an easy road. But wait, OK, gentlemen, now you guys are part of our family here at CNN. Every Saturday, you know at this time we want to get your take on the most intriguing legal cases.
But there is something even more spectacular because since we are family, we have to update you on the woman who is usually in this seat and that's right, those are Fred's two best, latest productions.
FRIEDMAN: Look at that.
FEYERICK: Isn't that cute? She is just radiating there. Look at that.
FRIEDMAN: Isn't she beautiful, beautiful.
FEYERICK: Now they are Nola Amanda and Gilbert James. They were born on Thursday night. Nola weighs 5 pounds 2 ounces. Gilbert is 4 pounds 13 ounces. Both twins and mom are healthy and strong. Richard, I know you were so excited to see them. You have been in on the process throughout the last couple of months. HERMAN: We have. Avery and I, we talk to Fred all the time. We're so happy for her and John and little John. All I know is she was really dedicated. She'd be here today, Deb. I don't know why she's not on with us.
FRIEDMAN: That's right.
HERMAN: She's my CNN hero.
FEYERICK: We need a remote studio from the hospital -- her other son John, by the way.
HERMAN: We want to hear what Nola and Gilbert have to say, right?
FEYERICK: They agree with you. OK, gentleman --
FRIEDMAN: They look like her, look at that.
FEYERICK: Yes, of course, can you always tell 24 hours after they're born. OK, gentlemen, thank you.
HERMAN: Beautiful, wonderful. Thank you.
FEYERICK: In a tough economy, it is easy to rely on credit cards. We all do it, but that reliance can cause problems. We'll tell you how you can climb out of debt and, yes, cut up the cards.
But first, you can now bring more items through airport security. It might be worth it. Holly Firfer have details on this "On The Go."
HOLLY FIRFER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The TSA is announcing new guidelines on what can you bring on the plane this holiday season. Small snow globes and even cakes and pies can now go through security.
WENDY PERRIN, CONDE NAST TRAVELER: There are certain things the TSA won't allow you to bring on the plane. For instance, toys that look like weapons, certain types of food. Any foods that are liquid or semi-liquid. It's good idea to go to tsa.gov and look at what can and cannot be allowed.
FIRFER: You can take wrapped gifts, but they might not stay that way.
PERRIN: The TSA officials might unwrap the gifts during the security inspection. Your gifts are less likely to get unwrapped if they're in the checked luggage.
FIRFER: If gifts make your suitcase too heavy or require another bag, it may be cheaper to ship them instead of paying the additional fees.
PERRIN: A good way to avoid the cost and hassles of either packing or shipping is simply to order gifts online to be sent to your destination. So it's there when you arrive. Tell grandma not to open the box.
FEYERICK: Updating a story we are following for you. "The Kansas City Star" says Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher is the NFL player involved in a murder-suicide in Missouri.
Affiliate KCTV reports Jovan allegedly shot and killed his girlfriend then drove to a practice facility at the team's Arrowhead Stadium. Shot and killed himself in front of his head coach and general manager.
Chasing the American dream, it can get expensive, especially if you have to use your credit cards to do it. In today's "Smart is the New Rich," reporter Christine Romans introduces us to a couple who found themselves deep in debt, manage to turn things around with a little help.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Baileys are hardworking and modest. Jerry is a minister, Sue a registered nurse.
SUE BAILEY: Get the coupons, watch what you buying. Plan your meals.
ROMANS: They married in 1992. Each had children from a previous marriage, six altogether and with a big family, there were big bills.
JERRY BAILEY: We had major, major repairs on the house. And the cars and like a new transmission, those kinds of things. And just over a period of time we amassed more and more credit cards.
ROMANS: Thirteen years later, the couple was overwhelmed by debt, $92,000 in the red spread over 17 credit cards with interest rates as high as 30 percent. The Baileys story is an extreme example, but more than 30 percent of U.S. families have four or more credit cards and the average American household carries nearly $16,000 on their cards. In total, Americans owe $585 billion in credit card debt.
JERRY BAILEY: We felt like we were in jail. Just as if there had been real bars all around us.
ROMANS: Many in the Bailey's situation would have considered bankruptcy, but for them, it wasn't an option.
JERRY BAILEY: The debt was mine. It wasn't everybody's out there and when you bankrupt, it affects other people, innocent people. And so it was our responsibility and we were the ones who had to do something with our debt.
ROMANS: They worked with a non-profit credit counseling agency and entered a debt management program.
JOE HERNDON, GREENPATH DEBT SOLUTIONS: We looked at their bills as far as paying rent, mortgage, utilities and then we look at the debts. Who they owe money to, what type of debt it is.
ROMANS: The agency contacted creditors who waived late fees and lowered interest rates. They had to cut up all their cards, use cash for essentials and make a weekly payment of $665 toward the debt. They made sacrifices and both took on extra work. Fast forward, 5-1/2 years and the couple is debt free and just months away from paying of their mortgage.
JERRY BAILEY: It felt like the weight of the world had been taken off of our shoulders such a sense of freedom and exhilaration. It was a wonderful feeling to know that we had accomplished that.
ROMANS: Christine Romans, CNN, New York.