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Sandy: Still Recovering
Aired December 4, 2012 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): It`s been five weeks since superstorm Sandy devastated much of the country. Some estimates say that there was $42 billion in damage. Can we ever rebuild this? And what about those who have been forgotten?
I was there, saw it myself. Thousands of people still living without power. Their homes nothing more than rubble drifted off their foundations. Nowhere to go. Cold, hungry, emotionally exhausted.
Now, the insurance companies have started to say -- sorry, we cannot help you.
And you could be next. Experts predict that storms may be getting worse and more frequent. This show could save your life.
Then, has tough love gotten too tough? Moms who have taken to humiliating their kids to punish them for acting out.
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: It is five weeks after hurricane Sandy. And thousands are homeless and feel helpless. More storms threatening other parts of the country.
How do you handle the rage, the grief, the frustration particularly for those who have lost everything? What about the fear, could it happen to me? What I`m concerned about, what about the denial that it couldn`t happen to me?
The fact is, tonight, we are going to be addressing disasters which are apparently going to increase in the future and we all must be ready or else.
Joining me: Cade Courtley, former Navy SEAL, who`s here with life- saving information.
Also joining us, Chad Myers, CNN`s severe weather expert.
Chad, I`m going to start with you.
We`re seeing more and more reports of extreme weather. Is this something that`s going to be part of the future and are we going to see more disasters going forward?
CHAD MYERS, CNN WEATHER ANCHOR: You know, I don`t see how we don`t. I think that`s a given. The carbon dioxide has never been higher in the atmosphere.
We know carbon dioxide holds in heat. So, if the Earth is getting warmer and the water is getting warmer, that`s more bubbling of the atmosphere, so storms could potentially be stronger in the future. Sure.
PINSKY: Is there anything ongoing right now that we need to be aware of? Are there areas you`re particularly concerned about?
MYERS: Yes. You know, the Pacific Northwest. They`ve seen now four storms in the past 10 days, and four more on the horizon. This is going to pick up significant amounts of rainfall and snow. Snow above about 5,000 feet.
The great for skiers, but Whistler up in British Columbia has already picked up 133 inches of snow this year alone. That`s, like, a third of what they should get in the entire year.
And more storms are on the way. We start to get this area flooded. We flooded Napa and Sonoma counties last week.
Now, the rain won`t stop. It is not going to stop now for what I can see, 16 more days, on and off. Don`t get wrong. It`s not going to rain every day. But four more storms lined up about once every four days.
PINSKY: So while our attention has been focused really on the Northeast and of course down in the Floridian area, people are aware that hurricanes hit. But now we`ve got a situation where everybody`s at risk. Is that correct?
MYERS: I think so. Now we`re moving into winter season. We have a couple different things.
We`re going to see blizzards. And they happen every year. Not saying they`re going to be worse. They just happen every year.
But we also have this potential nor`easter. As these nor`easters run up the East Coast, a lot like what the hurricane did, although it`s not going to be a hurricane in the winter, but it will be a low pressure center and that dumps tremendous amounts of snow in the big cities.
If the water is warm in the Atlantic and we know it is, a couple of degrees warmer than it should be right now -- no blame, can`t blame anybody yet. But because it`s warmer, that interaction between the cold of the winter and the warm of the water could make these nor`easters stronger in the years to come.
PINSKY: And, Chad, I`m pretty naive about this stuff. But my understanding correctly also that the gulf stream and Arctic air is moving down farther across the country and interacting with the moist hot air that`s coming up out of the Atlantic?
MYERS: You know, it can. Right now, we`re in between El Nino and La Nina. So this winter should be fairly normal. There may be a couple of places where it`s warmer than normal especially back out in the western parts of the United States and a couple places where it`s wetter than normal or drier than normal.
But on average, this should be a pretty average year. That dip in the jet stream you talked about is when you get something like this when it comes up over this big ridge, it`s red here. That`s why it`s warm. The jet stream goes up, it turns down and it turns back up again. When it turns back up again, that`s how the nor`easters occur.
PINSKY: Now, Cade, I want to bring you in at this point. You were an expert in survival. You`re hearing that things are likely to get worse. What do we need to do? Should people be running panicked? Should we just be getting realistic about these things and staying prepared?
CADE COURTLEY, AUTHOR, "SEAL SURVIVAL GUIDE": You should be listening right now. It happened in New York. If you went and asked any of these people I`m going to be without power for up to three to four weeks, if you would have asked them before Sandy they would have thought you`re crazy.
Listen, folks. You need to get ready now while you can do it on your time, because you could wake up tomorrow and you can be dealing with a major, you know, mother earth sort of disaster like he was describing earlier.
PINSKY: Well, Cade, now, one of the things I try to break through in people`s thinking is when they say not me, not my kids.
And I am as guilty as anybody. I live in earthquake territory. And I know we`re going to have an earthquake here soon. I`ve been intending to go out and buy a generator to be sure we`re not stuck. I keep water.
We`re going to talk later in the show about the survival bag that you need to keep on hand to make sure you get through these things. But what do you think that denial is?
I have to go out and buy a generator. I want to be sure I`m ready for this thing. I`ve been planning that for six months. I haven`t done it yet. What`s the matter with me?
COURTLEY: I know you have experience with people that deal with denial. And it`s probably a lot of it is you don`t want to think that that`s going to happen to you.
PINSKY: I know it`s going to happen. We`re going to have an earthquake here.
COURTLEY: You`re absolutely right. There`s been a ton of minor earthquake activity up in Alaska just in the last several weeks.
California, wake up. Go out and get ready. Start now. Don`t delay.
PINSKY: Yes. I agree.
Let`s talk to Scott on Staten Island. Of course, I was there, I saw what happened. It was overwhelming.
Scott, what`s going on?
SCOTT, CALLER FROM STATEN ISLAND, NY: Hi, Dr. Drew.
SCOTT: He`s right. You know what? We were unprepared. You know, we heard stories about the hurricane coming, and we stayed in the house until it happened. Me, my wife, my dog.
When it happened, our house started blowing off the basement. And we left the basement and then we proceeded to go outside and get out of the area. And it was only waist high when we got in the cars and stuff. And we drove of in it.
And we`re lucky to be alive. There are people that lost their lives. I mean, we lost our home. We lost a lot of stuff.
And what makes it more depressing is that no one wants to help. FEMA doesn`t help. The government`s not helping. The insurance told -- the homeowner insurance tells you one thing. The one insurance tells you another. You know --
PINSKY: Scott -- let me interrupt you and ask. One of the things I want to get through to you tonight is that we -- and the country have not forgotten what`s gone on in these regions that have been hit so hard.
What is day-to-day life there now for you and your family?
SCOTT: Well, I`m living in my house. I have no water. I have no gas. I have no electric. I have no bathroom. And I`m living in the house because there`s not enough housing -- I`m middle class. I work, my wife works. We both work for the utility companies here.
PINSKY: Cade -- I`m sorry, go ahead, Scott.
SCOTT: And it`s amazing. Try to call FEMA for rental assistance, they`re telling you, you can go (INAUDIBLE). They`re telling you out of your state. They want you to go to Albany or they want you to go to Jersey.
That`s not the right thing, because you`re putting more stress on people. You`re making them go to areas that they`re going to have to increase their toll and not be in their neighborhood. You know, we had to tell them we need it the other day. We asked them to put trailers in the neighborhood like they did in Katrina. They didn`t want to.
You know, it`s not fair. We`re getting the run around. It`s really not fair.
You were in my house. You`ve seen it. You smelled the sewage. I`m not making this up.
PINSK: No, Scott, listen. I was there. I understand the frustration.
I had people walking around aimlessly in their homes not knowing what to do, looking like they`d seen ghosts. They seemed completely outside of themselves.
Cade, my question to you is, was Scott right to stay?
COURTLEY: Well, I mean, if he was not prepared and he admits he wasn`t, and if he said lucky to be alive, then no, he probably should not have stayed. I mean, I know a lot of people wanted to stay because they didn`t want stuff getting stolen from their homes. But you have to put life before property all the time.
You know, I`m in New York right now as we`re taping this, and I took a little bit of time to go down to Staten Island. And it resembles a lot of the war zones that I used to work in when I was in the SEALs. It`s -- this is what Mother Nature can do.
So, again, lucky to be alive.
COURTLEY: Lucky to be alive. You guys got to think about that if you`re not prepared for something like this.
PINSKY: Right. So, physical well being ahead of property, life ahead of property. That`s the first lesson tonight. Right, Cade? Number one lesson.
COURTLEY: Yes, absolutely.
PINSKY: And I agree. It looked like a war zone. I couldn`t believe what it looked like. It was -- I, too, was shocked and affected deeply by it.
Thank you to Chad Myers for all that information.
Next up, as I said I went myself to Staten Island last month and was shocked by what I saw. Take a look at this particular video. And we will find out what has happened since I was last there. Take a look at that video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The guy next door saved us. If he didn`t knock on my door, we`d all be dead. And by the time we left the house, all we had to do was throw the coats on. The water was up to our knees.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now, we`ve all seen the disaster on the news, but I was not prepared for how it felt to visit one community that was demolished by superstorm Sandy. Take a look at this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy here has a 2-month-old. He was like this, came out of the house like this. That`s what made me realize --
PINSKY: You were holding the child over your head?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
PINSKY: Where`s your house?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right here.
PINSKY: So you`re carrying -- did you get into the boat, too?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. The boat wasn`t here at this time. This made me say, let`s go. We got to get going. Whatever you got, let`s go?
PINSKY: You have a 2-month-old?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. We had to jump in the water first. And my girlfriend can`t swim. So, she was saying take the baby and go. But --
PINSKY: You were carrying the baby out over your head?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but I made sure she came with us.
PINSKY: So it was story after story like that that I was wading through. And here`s why I want to do this show tonight. If you`re asking yourself why is Drew doing a show -- first of all, (A), let`s not forget about these people struggling, number one. Number two, I do not want this to happen to you. Number three, when I was talking, my producers and the people here at the program about readiness for disaster, I realized I wasn`t getting read, I live in earthquake territory and I know better.
So, it`s up to all of us to think about this and put this as a priority so we don`t have more people suffering like that. It`s incumbent upon us. We have to protect ourselves and our family. Take action.
To discuss this is Cade Courtley, author of "SEAL Survival Guide".
Five weeks later many people are still struggling to get back to normal. Joining me from their home is Chuck and Dina Plugues.
So, Chuck, tell me what has happened since the event and what`s your biggest frustration now?
CHUCK PLUGUES, HOME HIT HARD BY SUPERSTORM SANDY: How are you doing, Dr. Drew? My biggest frustration right now is actually the insurance companies. What they`re doing for us and what they`re not doing for us, because we`re still waiting and waiting and insurance companies do nothing. They want their money when it`s due, but they`re not doing nothing to help out to get the things fixed, repaired, and taken care of.
PINSKY: So, Chuck, you`re living in your home right now?
PLUGUES: Yes, I am.
PINSKY: There`s something to be grateful for here. What is it they`re not doing? What is it that you need from them?
PLUGUES: We need them to actually cut checks. Get these people going so everything can start getting repaired and fixed and everything gets done. Without them cutting the checks and without them doing what they have to do, we`re all still sitting here still with mildew, still with walls not fixed, nothing insulated. And they`re doing nothing about it.
PINSKY: And it`s getting cold.
When I was walking around there, one of the things people were begging for was the trailers. Did you go through that experience as well where you needed a place to live for a few days?
PLUGUES: We needed a place to live but we had no choice but to stay here. When you have nowhere to go, you have no choice. And you just have to just stick around. And you have to just do what you have to do.
Between me and the neighbors, we got through it.
PINSKY: And, Charles, I want to give people a sense of what that means. This is the part that cut through to me. When I walked in those houses where people were still living, we`re talking about wet floors that were warping and freezing. Walls that were caving in and mildewing.
Is this what you were dealing with?
PLUGUES: Correct. Exactly. We`re dealing with the same thing. What`s happened is the humidity and everything is making the mold grow.
PINSKY: Yes. Now, let`s talk --
PLUGUES: So you have to literally sit here every day and rip more walls down, scrape them. You got to clean them. You got to bleach them.
And you got to keep doing this until it gets fixed.
PINSKY: Let me talk to Robin also in Staten Island.
Robin, what you got?
ROBIN, CALLER FROM STATEN ISLAND, NY: Hi. Well, we don`t even have a house right now. So, we have a house, we have a structure, but we had to completely gut the entire house. The water was over our roof.
We ran for our lives that night. And some people -- I mean, maybe something is better than nothing, but I really want to talk about the fact that everywhere you go, every company, every store are collecting donations for hurricane Sandy. Where is this money going?
I`m an individual who was a renter without insurance. I can`t find one single place other than FEMA who gave us practically nothing to actually give us monetary help. The Red Cross, yes, blanket, a sandwich.
And don`t get me wrong, people need these things. But more than that, we need long-term solutions to help get us back on our feet long-term. And there is nothing.
PINSKY: I agree. And this was the frustration I was hearing when I was there.
Charles, back to you real quick. You have kids, right?
PLUGUES: Yes, I do.
PINSKY: Are your kids back in school? Is there life normal out there at all?
PLUGUES: They`re actually -- they`re back in school.
PINSKY: There they are.
C. PLUUGES: They`re doing what they have to do. And they`re trying their best, you know, to make it by this. Like I said, we have to stay on the second floor. You can`t go near the first floor. You got to stay away from it.
And, you know, we`ve been doing what you have to do. And if you don`t, what else are you going to do? There`s nowhere else to go.
None of the insurance companies are giving us anything. FEMA only wants to do so much and doesn`t want to do anything else. And where do you go?
PINSKY: Now, I want to say -- things are better as far as FEMA goes than, say, when I was there, when people were completely out of luck. FEMA did house and pay for housing for some people which is why people made it there u the horrible nor`easter which was ridiculously cold on the heels of it.
And, by the way, this day, you see me there walking with Ramona from "Mob Wives" walking through the streets of her home town in Staten Island. It was cold. And that was just a few days after the incident.
It just -- again, these wet floors, wet walls were literally turning to ice and people were trying to live in these structures. They were barely that.
Next up, I`m going to talk to a jersey father of four kids. They were without power for 10 days. We`ll see how they survived.
And later switching topics, have you ever thought about shaming your child? Shaming them out in public or the new version of public in social media. Meet some moms who did just that
Keep coming with your calls, 855-DREW5. Be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONNA SOLLI, STATEN ISLAND, NEW YORK: We are going to die. You don`t understand. You got to get your trucks here on this corner -- now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was the frustration that affected me so deeply when I walked around Staten Island.
Now, I am no stranger to suffering and death. As a physician, I`ve seen a lot of that. But the magnitude of this shook me. And the helplessness associated with it.
And here`s why we`re here tonight. So you`re not helpless when this does happen, because it`s going to happen. Certainly going to happen here in earthquake territory. And we just heard at the beginning of the program how weather is going to be more of an issue going forward.
Later in the show, we will talk about specific ways you can prepare yourself.
Now, during Sandy, we spoke to a father of four named Mark Downey. I talked to him several times. His New Jersey town was under water and the family went without power or heat for 10 days. Remember, you guys, this was back during the nor`easter. So it was freezing.
Mark, you`re actually pretty enterprising during the storm. What are some of the things you did to survive that we could all learn about?
MARK DOWNEY, BAYONNE, NEW JERSEY (via telephone): Well, I tell you, Dr. Drew. One of the things we did was my mother-in-law next door had a fire place. So, the trees were down. We`ve been out, we scavenged firewood. We had a fire every night to stay warm. I mean, it was kind of a good ritual for the family, and a way to wind down our way to be together to stay warm.
PINSKY: So as I understand, you actually kept your positive mental attitude as it pertains to things like a ritual, light a fire, was built on some of the disaster. If a tree went down and landed somewhere, you went with a chain saw that you powered up through a generator appropriately sort of planned for. Remember we were talking about generators last time I had you on. You were then able to use the wood then as a fire.
DOWNEY: Yes, that`s right. Last year during the previous hurricane, I saved the wood and left them next to the house. And everyone asked, why are you saving that wood, you don`t have a fire place. I said, you know what? You have it, you never know.
And then a year later, we needed it. Thank God. Thank God we had it a year later.
PINSKY: Cade, let`s talk about attitude during things like this. How important is it to sort of keep -- I think once -- was it you that coached me about think in terms of getting through the next five minutes, getting through the next hour and keeping very positive about these things.
COURTLEY: Yes, I love what Mark did there. He did a couple of things. He adapted to his situation. OK, we need heat, let`s start a fire. The other thing he did which I think is more powerful is he kept the people around him busy.
And if you stay busy, time will continue to tick on and you`re that much closer to being out of that. That`s the same way that POWs dealt with their time when they were detained. It would be one day at a time or one hour at a time. It would be little things, we call them little victories. Hey, I just caught a cockroach. I`m going to be eating later.
Or I just made it through that. I was got done being beat for two hours, and I`m still alive.
PINSKY: Cade, I don`t want to be Pollyannaish, but I don`t think I could keep that positive attitude as a POW. How do you not fall victim to helplessness?
COURTLEY: You have a choice. You can continue to fight on or you can give up and die.
Now, I appreciate the fact that the majority of the folks affected by the storm had little or no training. You know, they`re probably looking at me saying, well, I wasn`t a Navy SEAL. Well, there are some real basic things you can do. I`m sure that none of them will ever say this can`t happen to me again. Once you have that mindset, you can move forward with and when it does happen again, we`ll be ready because we`ve done this, this, and this.
PINSKY: Right. Now, thinking about specifics, we`re going to get to that in just a minute. And for more stories that you can see -- more about the stories you`ve seen tonight, go to HLNTV.com. Now, Cade`s tips that could save your life in the next disaster, that after the break.
And then, when kids go too far, do their parents go too far by punishing them in social media and wearing sandwich boards publicly like this or standing out on the corner with shaming -- public shaming displays. How far is too far? That later. First, a break.
PINSKY: All right. I want to head back to Mark. Mark, do you have a question for Cade? Cade Courtley is a former Navy SEAL, author of "SEAL Survival Guide." I understand, Mark, you got a question for him.
VOICE OF MARK DOWNEY, BAYONE, NJ: I do. I know, you know, in a survival kit you should have like your car should be fully gassed up which mine was. You should have a lots of cash on hand, I did. What are the other big things I should have ready to go because I wasn`t really ready to flee my house? I don`t know. What`s the number one thing you should have in your survival kit?
CADE COURTLEY, FORMER NAVY SEAL: Well, when you say flee your house, that`s exactly what you need to be able to do. And what you need to be able to do when you flee is to have what it calls go bag. And the go bag essentially is that thing that you can grab that`s under your bed, it`s in your car, or at work. And you can live out of that for 24 to 72 hours.
And so, it`s very basic. I`ve got one right here. This is actually the one I`ve created. And go through it real quick. This go bag actually has an internal power supply. It enables you to not only recharge cell phones up to three times. It`s got an L.E.D. light right here that is going to be great and that`s going to go ahead and operate for, you know, upwards of nine hours before recharge.
PINSKY: Cade, I`m going to interrupt you. You said in the past that light is very, very important. I`m surprised that is such an important piece of this.
COURTLEY: It is. It does a lot of things. Number one, when you`re scared if you have light, you`re not going to be as scared. Number two, if you`re somewhere and people can`t find you, this is going to help them see where you`re at. I mean, in addition to light, another really important thing that people don`t think about. I`ve got a whistle (INAUDIBLE) on there.
You might not be able to move, but if you get to that and they hear you because you`re buried, that`s another way somebody can come find you. Moving on to the kit. Right here in the pocket I have "SEAL Survival Guide." This just hit the shelves today. If you don`t have any training, this can get you through just about any disaster from start to finish. Very basic. It`s done in a format almost like a pilot`s checklist. What else do you need?
PINSKY: Water, what about water?
COURTLEY: Absolutely water, because what it comes down to, you can last two to three weeks without eating.
COURTLEY: Two to three days without water.
PINSKY: That`s right. People don`t know that.
COURTLEY: And in this pack, there is an internal bladder right here for the water. In addition to that --
PINSKY: Like a camel pack sort of, right?
COURTLEY: Absolutely. It`s a camel pack. First aid gear. Really important thing. If you are on any kind of prescription drug, make sure you have at least three days of it, because you`re going to be on your own and you might need that. OK?
PINSKY: How about money? Is money of any use in that situation?
COURTLEY: Yes. I mean --
PINSKY: Here`s what I learned out there. A lot of people are so close to the bone on how they were living, they literally couldn`t go out for the night and get food or find a place to stay because they didn`t have the money. I mean, so how much money do people need to have on hand?
COURTLEY: Yes. Well, look, banks are going to be closed and the ATMs probably won`t work. So, you want to have at least $100 in small bills, I suggest tens. In addition in that pouch, in a plastic sandwich bag, have copies of emergency contacts, have copies of I.D.s to include any kind of a medical card. You know, other key items for this thing, I like having a -- right here.
It`s a tarp and a poncho. Something as simple as a sock hat just to keep you warm. I mean, it`s basics, but right here, this whole thing is sitting underneath your bed. And like the guy said earlier, we just had to go. We had to go, go. Well, if you`re going to have to go, make sure you have something that`s going to keep you alive for good, you know, two to three days.
PINSKY: I feel good that I at least did one thing right so far. My wife and I got focused on gassing up the cars. We became focused on that after going out to Staten Island, like the getting out of there piece. We got that message loud and clear. Let`s go to John in Staten Island. John, what do you got for us?
JOHN, STATEN ISLAND: Hey, how are you doing, Dr. Drew? How are you doing, Cade? Great show.
PINSKY: Thank you.
JOHN: Well, listen, with this coming, and how do we prepare with snow and everything coming on?
PINSKY: Yes, the weather. You know, how much do you really anticipate extreme weather particularly with the weather becoming more extreme?
JOHN: Also, you know, the mayor here in New York Is shutting down shop in a lot of areas stating that everything is back to normal here. I mean, in Gracie (ph) mansion it is, but not in Staten Island. I`m still homeless.
PINSKY: Cade, go ahead, what do you got?
COURTLEY: OK. Look, the best way to answer that question is imagine you were on your own for ten days. What do you need to do right now to make it ten days? What do you need to do that you didn`t before? Obviously, gas up the car, look at possible evacuation routes, look at places that you can go and live.
But if you were sheltered in for 10 days, water, a gallon a person a day. Food, non-perishable items. Heating sources, OK? Think about all these things. Ways to possibly shelter up or fortify up your home.
PINSKY: Cade, one of the things you did not mention was communication. How do we -- do we keep a cell phone? Do we have transistor radios? There are sort of crank radios out there. Is that really important, too?
COURTLEY: Well, look, at the end of the day, a major catastrophe will probably wipe out all the cell phone networks, so you want a back up. A really great thing is a hand crank radio that basically you can keep that powered on your own and you can get information. Another thing you need to do is if you`re in a neighborhood, do this before the next disaster.
Talk to neighbors and establish a game plan. Hey, if this happens, come here. We`ll go there. You be in charge of this. You be in charge of that. Create this team within your community and then you guys huddle up because there`s safety in numbers when things go bad.
PINSKY: Well, Cade, I want to thank you very much. It`s always strangely reassuring to talk to you. And yet, we should be -- it makes me at once anxious and reassured to talk to you. I hope I do what I`m supposed to do now. And --
COURTLEY: Dr. Drew, go get your generator.
PINSKY: Thank you. Sometimes, it`s as simple as that. Somebody going, hey, you need to go do that. I don`t know why we can`t get operate as a single skull that way. But, I`m saying that to people out there as well. Go get that survival kit, that survival pack. It might make a difference in your life and for your family.
And Cade is certainly a great resource for you. Also thank you to Chad Myers. Check out Cade`s book "Navy SEAL: Survival Guide." I was checking out where to sit on the airplane in that book. It freaked me out a little bit.
Next up, are you a mom who thinks a little humiliation could do a lot of good for your misbehaving child? We`ll see about that. Stay with us.
PINSKY: These are the kind of stories that have us scratching our heads and saying, did you hear what happened. Parents, for instance, who discipline their children through public shaming. With me, author, attorney, and legal analyst for Avo.com, Lisa bloom.
I also have Kim Serafin, senior editor for "In Touch Weekly," and Reshonda Tate Billingsley who chose to discipline her 12-year-old daughter via Facebook. Reshonda, what did your daughter do and what did you do?
RESHONDA TATE BILLINGSLEY, USED FACEBOOK TO PUNISH DAUGHTER: Well, my daughter posted a picture of herself holding a bottle of unopened liquor on Instagram. She had an Instagram account. She posted a picture saying, "I wish I could drink this." So, when I saw it, I was very disappointed, because we had talked about it.
So, I made her hold a sign saying basically that she wasn`t ready for social media and will be taking a hiatus. Bye-bye.
PINSKY: And, I guess, my question would be how your daughter responded to this. Did she fight against it? Did it work? Have there been repercussions?
BILLINGSLEY: Oh, she bawled. She told me I was ruing her life. I said if Instagram and Facebook are your life, you don`t have a very good life. She was distraught the first day, the very first day. But by the second day, it had blown over. She just did not want to be embarrassed. But I needed to do something that would have a tremendous impact on her, and I knew that was it.
PINSKY: Well, Lisa, these days, that`s the Public Square, social media. And so, we`re shaming kids in public domain, is that OK?
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: No, it`s not OK.
PINSKY: Not OK.
BLOOM: In fact, it`s not a healthy thing to do. It might work in the short-term, but we know that in the long-term, humiliating a child leads to adults who are depressed, anxious, even suicidal. You know, kids are so sensitive to what their peers think of them. I think of better approach. I agree with the mom here that this child is not ready for social media.
I think the better approach is take away the camera, take away the computer, and monitor the child more, because most kids are not ready for social media. We can`t just let them loose. We need more parental supervision here.
PINSKY: Kim, do you agree with that? it`s such a brave new world with social media.
KIM SERAFIN, SR. EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Yes.
PINSKY: We don`t even know the full implication of what`s going to happen to this generation.
SERAFIN: No, it`s true. And if her daughter was saying this is ruining my life, what really would have ruined her life is if something like that got out to college applications admissions officers who look at those things. We know that college app admissions officers look at Facebook post, look at Google.
So, if they see kids with alcoholic beverages or if they see things that are salacious on Facebook, that`s not going to help them get into college. And it`s also better that they do it now when they`re 13 not when they`re 22 and looking for a job and then they can`t pay a rent because they can`t get a job.
PINSKY: Rashonda, you said this kid wouldn`t respond to anything else. Is there some kids we should elect to use this sort of public humiliation and others not?
BILLINGSLEY: Absolutely. You know, you have to know your children. I have three children. And I wouldn`t use this tactic on my middle child because I know her. She`s not as emotionally stable as my older daughter.
So, I knew that this was something that she could handle, but it amazes me, though, when I hear people say that it will ruin their life, and you know, they`ll grow into depressed and suicidal adults. I was embarrassed. It was a different type of embarrassment. My mother would show up at a club in some rollers when I missed curfew and I turned out just fine.
PINSKY: Somehow, I love your mother. I love your mother.
BLOOM: We`re all embarrassed by our parents. Shaming a child is very different. And I`ll tell you that under the law here in California where I practice, for example, humiliating a child is a form of emotional child abuse. And if a parent engages in that repeatedly, the child protective services can be called in. So, I really want to caution parents against this.
PINSKY: Let`s talk about this North Carolina dad who didn`t like his daughter`s comments on Facebook. You can never forget this particular tape. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is for my daughter, Hanna, and more importantly, for all her friends on Facebook who thought that her little rebellious post was cute. And for all you parents out there that think your, you know, kids don`t post bad things on Facebook. This right here is my 45. That was the first round.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Kim, is that different than sitting the child down with a gun and making them watch you shoot it just because it`s on electronic media? Is it somehow as adults think it`s different.
SERAFIN: Yes. Well, it`s scary. But obviously --
PINSKY: Scary either way, right?
SERAFIN: It`s really scary either way. But you know, I was saying before that, obviously, if the child is applying for college or applying for a job, there are things on Facebook that are going to show up. But something like this is -- look even worse, because this got so much more attention than her little bratty Facebook post.
I mean, this became a national story. It was joked about on late night shows. I mean, this was everywhere, this story. So, anyone that searches this girl`s name is going to come across this video.
PINSKY: Lisa, what do we do with this?
BLOOM: Yes. I don`t think gun violence is the answer to our problems.
PINSKY: But slow down. Slow down. Really? It`s not somebody (ph) Sam coming out with pistols.
BLOOM: I get the point. What I did with my kids and you know, I wrote a parenting book "Swagger." I`m very passionate about these issues. With my kids, I would take away the devices when they were getting out of control. That`s really the key here.
PINSKY: Let`s slow down. One thing that behaviorists have shown, I hope I`m not speaking at a school. I`m not a behaviorist, but my understanding is, withdrawing a positive is the most powerful way to shape behaviors.
BLOOM: Yes. And the punishment should be connected to the crime, you know? I`m a lawyer, so in my household, I was the judge. And so, if they steal something, they have to return it. They have to take money out of their own pocket for retribution, and they have to try a letter of apology, right? So, I always try to fit the punishment to the crime. And i think that has the best effect on kids.
BILLINGSLEY: But I disagree, because here`s the thing. We take away the phone and they go to school and their friends have phones. And they get on their friends` phones. And if we`re not teaching a valuable lesson and showing the impact of this, they`re just going to do what we`re taking away from them all of these material things.
And then, they go and do it on their friends` phones. I`m an author who got (ph) travel, I talk to kids, and you`d be amazed at the Facebook accounts, the Twitter accounts they have that their parents have no clue about --
PINSKY: Rashonda, you`re bringing up a great point and a really important part of this conversation which is this generation is ahead of us on these technologies. We don`t really know the full impact. I`m starting to hear some of it these days. And kids in their 20s (ph), and we, as parents, don`t know how to manage it because we never presented with this stuff before, so, thus these conversations.
BLOOM: But public shaming is never the solution.
PINSKY: Well, next up, another teenager punished by parents on Facebook. Stay with us for that one.
PINSKY: All right. What happens when time-outs and taking things away the way Lisa and I like to use those sort of re-enforcers. When that doesn`t work anymore, well, some parents are actually publicly humiliating these misbehaving kids to try to get control of their bad behavior. Now, remember, the electronic media is sort of the public domain. It`s the Public Square for our kids these days.
So, the question is, does public shaming do more harm than good? My next guest, Denise Abbott used Facebook to punish her daughter. Denise, what did your daughter do and what was your response?
DENISE ABBOTT, USED FACEBOOK TO PUNISH DAUGHTER: My daughter was with a group of her friends and myself, and she got very, very sarcastic with me, back talking in front of her friends, wanted me to do something for them and just her mouth was just very rude and disrespectful. She didn`t actually do anything that was on Facebook to begin with.
But when we got home that evening, I sat and thought about what I wanted to do so that she would realize that how she acted towards me in front of her friends --
PINSKY: Denise, we`re looking at what you did, I think, right now. You put a sort of a no speak X in front of her mouth and a little disclaimer in front of her about keeping your mouth shut.
ABBOTT: Yes, I did. And I also put -- I put it on my Facebook and hers. And I said that if people ask her what she did wrong and what she learned from it. And I have a great group of friends on Facebook that are also moms and every single one of them was asking Able what she did and what she learned from it. And she had to respond individually to every single one of the people that asked.
PINSKY: Lisa, what do you think?
BLOOM: So, I understand the impulse. Let me tell you, I hate it when kids mouth off, too. And what I did about situation with my kids was their friends all had to go home because they always do that in front of their friends. And then they had to explain to me why it was wrong. I don`t mind them having to talk to other moms about it.
What I do mind is being embarrassed again in front of all their friends, because what childhood is really about is learning and growing. We have to expect that they`re going to make mistakes. I mean, they start out as little savages, and we`re trying to civilize them. But public shaming, again, I just think has too many long-term negative consequences.
PINSKY: Let`s look at the continuum here. Here is another parent who publicly shamed. We`re about to look at some footage of that. This time was -- parent`s -- kid was smoking pot. And they did the following. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
APRIL MATHISON, MADE SON WEAR SIGN ON STREET: Time-outs and taking things away from them just don`t seem to work anymore. That sometimes a little public humility, you know, is what they need nowadays to get a point across. And, if this works for him, it maybe saves one or two other students from thinking about picking this stuff up, then I feel like I`ve done my job as a parent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: In a way Kim, she`s picking up addiction treatment and trying to do with herself with control and shaming, and unfortunately, does not work.
SERAFIN: And you know what, I`m sure that kid was bullied in school. And then, you bring up the bullying aspect as we know is a huge problem. And again, I talked about --
PINSKY: Slow down, Kim. So, you suspect he was bullied. And now, here`s mom is bullying. Or bullied as a result --
PINSKY: I see. Yes.
SERAFIN: -- probably seeing that on social media, on the news, on things like that.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Roshanda, go. Go ahead.
BILLINGSLEY: -- they don`t know that standing judgment of parents, and they don`t know us. They don`t know our children. I wasn`t bullied. My kids aren`t. You know, we know our children. And they often think that this was our line of first defense. That we just immediately did something wrong and we decided to shame them.
This, oftentimes, comes after we`ve exhausted everything else. It doesn`t bother my child to take her phone. It doesn`t bother her to send her to her room and no TV because she loves to read.
BILLINGSLEY: So, you have to get them where it hurts.
BLOOM: You know, hitting them -- people used to say the same thing about hitting children, about taking switches off trees. That`s going to teach them a lesson. We know that there are some forms of discipline sure that scare kids, that make parents feel better, that make parents feel that they are being tough, but they have long-term negative consequences.
PINSKY: Denise, hold on a second. Denise, go ahead. Go ahead. Denise.
ABBOTT: I don`t understand -- I don`t understand where as a parent you`re supposed to protect your child from being humiliated from everything possible. When they get out into college, when they get out into society, when they`re employed, is everybody going to be there to protect them from humiliation? Don`t you think that they should learn that --
BLOOM: Yes. But at least we shouldn`t be inflicting humiliation.
PINSKY: Kim, go ahead. Hang on, Denise, one sec. Kim.
SERAFIN: I do agree with the parents who are trying to teach their kids a valuable lesson early on because I think it is important because what they post on Facebook or Twitter later in life can have even huger impacts on their life. Not just like I said, college admission but jobs and their livelihood. So, I think that is a good lesson to teach kids early on but --
PINSKY: Yes. And there is a difference between embarrassing, humiliating, and shaming.
BLOOM: Publicly shaming.
PINSKY: Yes. Shaming is I am bad.
BILLINGSLEY: I think a lot of people fail to realize that everything we do is done out of love. Our daughters know that.
PINSKY: I have no doubt you love your kids.
BLOOM: But if it`s not effective, then you have to look for something else.
PINSKY: Denise, last comment. Denise.
ABBOTT: It did work and it was effective.
BLOOM: Yes, but I`m talking ten years, 20 years out. You know, people are in therapy.
PINSKY: Denise, finish this off. Go ahead.
ABBOTT: We had to write on the board 50 times I won`t talk back in class or we got paddled in school. Ten, 15, 20 years down the road, I`m not sitting around blaming all of my life issues on that. I learned my lesson.
BLOOM: But a lot of people really are damaged by child abuse.
PINSKY: That`s absolutely true. And the reason we don`t paddle anymore is because we have discovered that is quite deleterious to kids, but this is a conversation --
BLOOM: And we evolve. We learn.
PINSKY: We evolve, we learn, and we`re still trying to figure this one out. Be right back.
PINSKY: A couple of notes and corrections about last night`s show. We had Anna David on the program. She is the executive editor of TheFix.com. We misrepresented her as an addiction counselor, though, she`s a recovering person very knowledgeable. She is specifically not a counselor.
Also, we featured the family of Phillip Moreno yesterday, tragically killed in alleged drunk driving accident. He was laid to rest today. I want to notify people that a memorial fund has been established in Phillip`s honor. You can help out by going to BHAttorneys.com. It was a very tragic story.
So, I want to say thank you to all my guests and callers tonight. Thank you all for watching, of course. And, of course, the only thing that follows our show "Nancy Grace," and it begins right now.