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Boys Allegedly Beaten, Abused; U.S. Labels Syrian Rebel Group As Terrorists Same-Sex Marriages Now in Washington; Obama Prepares For Cabinet Shuffle>;

Aired December 10, 2012 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Suzanne Malveaux. Here's what we're watching this hour. President Obama on the road pushing his plan to avoid the fiscal cliff. We're also monitoring the health of one of the current and a former leader as well, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez arriving in Cuba today for surgery after a reoccurrence of his cancer. He was greeted by Cuban President Raul Castro.

And former South African President Nelson Mandela, he is in the hospital undergoing tests now. Officials say he's doing well, that there is no cause for alarm, but Mandela is 94 years old and a bit frail.

As for President Obama, he is visiting a Detroit plant that makes diesel truck engines. He is going to talk about the economy, the fiscal cliff, that's happening within the hour. We're going to take that for you, of course, live.

But first, I want to take you to Florida. That is where we are learning new details today about a long-running mystery. There are researchers in the Florida panhandle that -- in the town Marianna. Now, they have found more possible grave sites on the grounds of a reform school that closed last year after more than a century. No one knows for sure how many boys may be buried there or what abuse they might have suffered at that school, but our Ed Lavandera, he has spent years investigating this story, and he's got the details.

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ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A mystery haunts the grounds of this now defunct reform school for boys in the Florida panhandle town of Marianna, involving teenage boys sent here decades ago, some never seen again. In recent years, former students, now in their twilight years, have come forward with horrific stories of punishing abuse doled out by school leaders and of friends who vanished, stories told by CNN.

They accused former school leaders of beatings, sexual abuse and even murder which brings us to this cemetery on the school's grounds. The bodies of 31 boys are buried here. Florida authorities claim they know how all the boys died, some killed in a fire, other in a flu epidemic, nothing criminal. But new research shows other bodies could be buried in this area, too, and dozens of former students and families say that's proof of a more sinister story hidden in these woods. (on camera): Back in the early 1960s, the leader of the boys reform school had a local boy scout troop come in here and clean up the cemetery. They put up these 31 crosses. But now, a team of anthropologists, over the last year, has been going through all of this area, cleared out all of the woods around here, and they're finding the possibility of many more grave shafts which is only leading to the mystery of what happened here in Marianna.

(voice-over): Untangling the story may be lost to time. The school closed last year. These events happened from the 1940s to 1960s. Most of the school leaders from then have died. But a research project led by a University of South Florida anthropologist, Erin Kimmerle, turned up evidence of additional grave sites during months of searching the school grounds. Kimberly says as many as 18 more bodies could be buried here and that the research team believes a second cemetery could be hidden on the school grounds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got something right there.

DR. ERIN KIMMERLE, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA: We've found burials within the marked cemetery, and then we've found burials that extend beyond that.

LAVANDERA: Kimberly has traveled the world investigating war crimes for the United Nations, searching for mass graves in places like Yugoslavia and Peru.

(on camera): Have you done just this area or has -- all around?

KIMMERLE: All of it.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Her team used high-tech equipment to scan into the ground. All the red you see suggests the location of possible grave sites, but we won't know for sure unless exhumations are ordered. Florida state officials won't comment until they can review Kimmerle's findings.

KIMMERLE: These are children who came here and died for one reason or another and quite literally have just been lost in the woods. And it's about restoring dignity and helping -- if not putting a name to them, at least marking them and acknowledging that they're here.

LAVANDERA: The anthropologist also studied historic documents and public records and discovered a disturbing discrepancy, boys unaccounted for.

OVELL KRELL: This was about the last pictures we had of him.

LAVANDERA: Ovell Krell's brother was sent here in 1940. She says, Owen Smith dreamed of playing guitar at the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville. The 14 year old had a musician's vagabond soul. He was shipped to reform school for stealing a car. Ovell never saw him again. Her family was told Owen had run way. She still has a letter sent by the school superintendent more than 70 years ago.

LAVANDERA (on camera): We have been unable to get any information concerning his whereabouts. We will appreciate your notifying us immediately if you receive any word from or concerning him.

(voice-over): But Ovell Smith believes her brother was already dead. A few weeks later, his family was told his decomposed body was found under a house near the school.

KRELL: They think he crawled under there to try and keep warm and that he got pneumonia and died, and that was their official cause of death was death from pneumonia and exposure.

LAVANDERA (on camera): But that -- was that based on anything scientific or any kind of autopsy?

KRELL: No, no.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Ovell says another student told them a far different story.

KRELL: But he looked back, and my brother was running out across a field, an open field, and there was three men shooting at him with rifles. I believe until this day that they shot my brother that night, and I think they probably killed him. And they brought him back to the school and buried him.

LAVANDERA: Against the family's wishes, Owen Smith was buried on the school grounds. She's never figured out exactly where. No one was ever charged in his death back in 1941, but because of that case, along with other accounts of alleged abuse, beatings and killings, the Florida state law enforcement agency launched an investigation in 2008. Its report concluded there was no evidence to suggest that any of the deceased died as a result of criminal conduct. The agency also said it couldn't find evidence to prove claims of physical or sexual abuse at the school. But many former students, like Robert Straley, say that report is a whitewashed cover-up. State officials say they stand by the report's findings.

ROBERT STRALEY: I'm mad at the state, yes. I'm angry at the state, because they let this go on for 68 years and did nothing about it.

LAVANDERA: Straley says he was beaten with a leather strap, and that some school leaders killed young boys and made them disappear.

STRALEY: It is important to find all of the boys that were buried there. I mean, they're practically crawling out of their graves crying out, help, remember me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Ed Lavandera is joining us from Dallas. This is an extraordinary story, Ed. What happens next?

LAVANDERA: Well, this is a story we've been following for several years now, and -- so this is kind of following it up. But what happens now, interestingly enough, Suzanne, is that the state of Florida is actually trying to sell that property where this school sat but that sale has now been stopped. Family members of former students have gotten -- have gone through the legal process to halt that sale temporarily until they can figure out where all these grave sites might be, and then trying to identify these bodies. But that would require a lot of these families to begin asking for exhumations so they can begin that process. And it's not a given that all of these grave shafts that were found actually have bodies in them. So, you know, there's signs that these are grave sites, but we don't really know what's inside of that. So, that just all adds to this mystery and this uncertainty surrounding what happened at this school many decades ago.

MALVEAUX: Obviously, some families still don't have the answers that they're looking for. What do they do now?

LAVANDERA: Well, I think it all kind of goes back to the Florida department -- the Florida department -- law enforcement department that originally put out this report back in 2008 that kind of put a lot of -- dampened, I think, the spirits of a lot of people who've been following this closely. We went to them asking them to get their reaction to these newly released details, and they told us that they wouldn't have any comment until they had had a chance to review the findings themselves. So, I think over the next couple of weeks, perhaps months, we'll get a better sense of where it goes now. But I think people are still just now trying to get a sense of what these new findings mean and what it could mean for any kind of future investigations.

MALVEAUX: All right. Ed Lavandera, thank you very much.

Breaking news out of Syria as the White House getting ready to designate some of the rebel groups on the ground as terrorists saying they may actually have a link to Al Qaeda. We're going to have more after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: We have some breaking news out of Syria. Our Nick Paton Walsh is in Beirut, Lebanon with the latest. Nick, I understand that the White House is now looking at one of these groups within the rebels in Syria as a potential terrorist organization. What do you know?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Al- Nustra front we may have heard of in the past, a radical part of rebels fighting against the regime in Syria responsible for suicide bombings and also many of the big tactical military successes rebels have had. Now, according to a notice in the federal register just published today, tomorrow that group will be considered another name for Al Qaeda in Iraq. Remember those -- that group from about five years ago, a key part of Al Qaeda linked Iraqi insurgency. This effectively calls Al-Nustra front, the Syrian rebel group inside Syria, a terrorist group.

Now, that's enormously important because while it may not affect things particularly on the ground right now, because the U.S. isn't about to start arming rebel groups, it does mean that in the future, this particular organization, which you've seen these military successes, yes, are a radical in their ideology in many ways, but are increasingly seen by many Syrians as the most effective part of the rebel organization. They'll become a terrorist organization, meaning the U.S. can't really deal with them, can't really form -- encourage them to form part of any governmental structures or support they give Syria in the future and it will severely complicate how they deal with this radical path of Syria's rebels.

MALVEAUX: Well, let's talk about that, Nick, because we have heard from the president, we have heard from the secretary of state, both of them, previously, expressing how complicated the situation is on the ground. That they are not necessarily sure that they know who all these people are, the rebels who are fighting against the Syrian government. So, what does this group re represent? How do they distinguish who to support on the ground and who not to?

PATON WALSH: Well, in many of the videos you see, the Al-Nustra front are often carrying black flags, disciplined, well armed, effective. They seem to swarm military bases quite easily and have been quite effective in the battlefield. According to this designation from the U.S. Government, they're basically saying that they have great, strong ties to Al Qaeda and Iraq.

And many reports on the ground suggest that, yes, many of these fighters were, five years ago, killing American soldiers in Iraq or at least trying to do so. So, that's the complication for the U.S. government. Certainly, U.S. Data suggests that about one in 10 rebels on the ground may have some kind of affiliation. So, big enough to be a problem but not big enough to represent the majority at all. But this is the issue going forward. These people are increasingly in the eyes of Syrians almost their war heroes to some description because they're the ones experiencing success and victory on the battlefield.

The problem for the U.S. is when you want to start funding the armed opposition, or you want to start assisting the political opposition in the future, once the Assad regime has fallen, how would you shore up that massive moral contradiction? On one side, you have a group which the military is successful and considered part of what the rebels see as success, but, at the same time, they're also terrorists under many of the rules you said yourself.

MALVEAUX: And, Nick, explain for us. What does this mean for president Bashar al-Assad's argument, the case that he has been making that he says, look, these are terrorist organizations that are attacking the government facilities. Does this give his argument any credence?

PATON WALSH: Well, the problem is that, unfortunately, when he was calling many of the rebels terrorists, he was, in fact, often referring to more secular moderates who were simply attacking him. It was their way of trying to brand the entire insurgency against him as being terrorists. What this does do, of course, is hand an ideal propaganda victory to him in my ways. But for quite some time, there have been U.S. suggestion that part of the rebels were linked to al Qaeda were certainly radicals. This crystallizes that. And, of course, yes, it will be, in some way, a boon for President Bashar al Assad, but, frankly, he has so many more things to worry about right now. I'm sure he won't be seizing on this too much.

MALVEAUX: It certainly does give weight and explanation to the for White House argument, the reason why they have not gotten more involved in actually arming and supporting those rebels on the ground in Syria. A very complicated situation. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

President Obama promoting his plan to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff. He is taking his message directly now to the American people. He landed in Detroit just a couple minutes ago. The president's going to be talking to workers at the Detroit Diesel Corporation shortly. And the company, they make, of course, diesel engines. We're going to bring you the president's remarks live as soon as they start.

Well, they met back in 1977, but the relationship was considered taboo until now. We're going to talk with Jane Abbott Lighty and Pete-E Petersen about becoming the first same sex couple to get their marriage license in Washington state.

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MALVEAUX: Celebrating and tying the knot, same-sex couples gathering in Maryland, Maine and Washington state to say "I do" to make their unions legal. Folks in Maryland and Maine will have to wait a few weeks, but the new law in Washington state went into effect on Thursday. After a three-day waiting period, here come the weddings. Our next guests have made history. Jane Abbott Lighty and Pete-E Petersen, they were the first couple to get their marriage license in King County, Washington. And they join us live.

First of all, you guys have been together for 35 years. That's an accomplishment in and of itself. What is it like to finally be married?

PETE-E PETERSEN, LEGALLY MARRIED IN WASHINGTON STATE: (INAUDIBLE) long (INAUDIBLE).

JANE ABBOTT LIGHTY, LEGALLY MARRIED IN WASHINGTON STATE: I'm sorry?

MALVEAUX: Tell us, what is it like to finally be married?

PETERSEN: Oh, awesome. It's just unbelievable, too. We never thought this day would come. But it's wonderful. And it's just different now. Last night we were looking at 3,000 people watching us get married, and today we're listening to you.

LIGHTY: It's just wonderful.

MALVEAUX: Tell us a little bit about your years together, and how has the perception of same-sex couples changed? Describe the early days.

LIGHTY: Well, the early days, people were very hidden, very under the radar, including us. You know, the coming out process has been very long and slow and progressive. We were in professional jobs, and we helped -- we raised a child together. And we did all the things that ordinary people do, but we were very discrete and had house parties, et cetera. And it wasn't until about the last 10 years, 12 years, that things really began to change. And we've seen a gradual move toward this. And though -- in Washington state, through domestic partnership legislation, and then on to marriage equality. And it is a joyous time.

MALVEAUX: How has it changed your lives together?

PETERSEN: It hasn't changed too much except for the fact that we know now that we are legal, and we have a chance now that if either one of us gets sick or in the hospital or needing to get something done legally, that we are now married and approved and everybody understands a marriage license. Hotels, restaurants, what have you. And it's just a great joy. I'm very proud of the state of Washington for the voters who made it possible.

LIGHTY: It's a very secure feeling, but the other part of it is that some people don't think about is the state's sanctioning one's personal relationship, which is a wonderful feeling.

MALVEAUX: Who do you credit for this change, for this turn-around? Is it the people in Washington state? Is it the president when he first said he supported same-sex marriage? Do you think there was a pivotal moment that actually really turned things?

LIGHTY: No, I think there's a number of things. And I couldn't -- I just couldn't rattle them off. But it's a progressive happening with lots of people working behind the scenes. In Washington state, we had several key legislators who built bridges over the years and worked, reached across the aisle, Democrats to Republicans, and made that -- helped make that happen.

PETERSEN: By accrual.

LIGHTY: In Washington state. But across the country, all different kinds of things are happening in different ways. And watching public opinion change, along with those happenings, is --

MALVEAUX: Sure.

LIGHTY: Yes.

MALVEAUX: And it took --

PETERSEN: And it took really --

MALVEAUX: No, please, go ahead.

PETERSEN: Twenty years. It took really about 20 years in this state for people to really get into the fact that the legislators worked tirelessly and it's really been --

MALVEAUX: Is there more work to be done? I know the state recognizes the marriage, but you still -- and when it comes to a federal level, you don't have federal benefits like health insurance and pensions. That is something that's still crossing state borders you would not be able to enjoy. PETERSEN: That's right.

LIGHTY: Absolutely. Until the Defensive of Marriage Act is repealed, we're still, you know, we still have fence -- lots of fences up.

PETERSEN: And we hope --

MALVEAUX: And what --

PETERSEN: We have high hopes.

MALVEAUX: What do you make of the fact that the Supreme Court is now getting involved? They say that they're going to take on this issue as part of the docket.

LIGHTY: Well, we were hoping that Proposition 8 would have been refused by the high court and then turned back to the circuit court, because then it would have been reinstated, or I should say, you know, marriage would be possible in California. But they're going to hear it, and maybe -- that's probably a good thing, too. But the Defense of Marriage Act is under review, will be under review by the high court. And I -- what we heard yesterday is probably not until March. But at least they have agreed to hear it. And that's hopeful.

MALVEAUX: All right, 35 years together and married. Congratulations. We appreciate your time.

Well, some critics say the Environmental Protection Agency should go away. We talk to the head of the EPA, Lisa Jackson. That interview up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA JACKSON, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: We should regulate smartly. We shouldn't be oppressive. We should be smart about it. But we shouldn't go away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Fiscal cliff, not a laughing matter unless it's on "SNL," of course. This is the version of the agreement reached between the president and the House speaker. Check it out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, ACTOR, "SNL": And we'd like to announce that we have reached an agreement to avoid the fiscal cliff. In order to get the support of the speaker, I agree there would be no tax increases. I repeat, zero tax increases. Now why would I do that? I mean, I won the election. I had the leverage. Why give in? Well, simply put, I felt sorry for this man.

(END VIDEO CLIP) MALVEAUX: All right. Speculation is in full swing over the president's choices to fill his cabinet for the second term. Among the positions he's expected to fill, secretary of state, defense secretary, Treasury security, just to name a few. Our Emily Schmidt, she takes a look at some of the leading contenders and the potential challenges that they face.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

EMILY SCHMIDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A late November White House photo op.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a wonderful opportunity for me to meet with my full cabinet.

SCHMIDT: Maybe the last glimpse of this picture. An eminent cabinet shuffle is expected.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: The president has got a lot of very, very good people to choose from, but he wants to put together a team, especially in international affairs. A team overall that, going into a second term, does not look like a second team, does not look like a group of second stringers.

SCHMIDT: The likely short list to succeed Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is already politically charged. Susan Rice, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, is thought to be a leading contenders. But some Republicans have been highly critical of Rice following the attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When they go after the U.N. ambassador, apparently because they think she's an easy target, then they've got a problem with me.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Senator McCain.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.

SCHMIDT: Senator John McCain jokingly gave the cabinet post nod to Democrat John Kerry, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: I think John Kerry would be an excellent appointment and would be easily confirmed by his colleagues.

SCHMIDT: Kerry is also listed as a potential defense secretary to replace Leon Panetta. It's a list that includes Michele Flournoy, who held what's considered the number three job at the Pentagon. Senior Democrats say Deputy Defense Secretary Ashton Carter is on the list, and former Nebraska Senator Chuck Hagel, a Republican, could represent a reach across the aisle.

TIMOTHY GEITHNER, TREASURY SECRETARY: We're in a much stronger position today as a country than we were in '07.