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Mall Shootings; "Storage Wars" Star Says Show is Fake; The Reality of Reality TV; Casey Steps Out of Hiding

Aired December 12, 2012 - 19:00:00   ET


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, why did a seemingly ordinary 22- year-old sandwich shop worker known for kidding around a lot, suddenly turn incomprehensibly violent? They say Jacob Roberts went on a mission to kill at random at an Oregon shopping mall. We are live at that mall and we are going to talk to shaking witnesses next.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, who is the Oregon mall killer who cops identify as 22-year-old Jacob Roberts as cell phone video of stunned holiday shoppers with their hands raised emerges, a witness claims the masked gunman announced I am the shooter as he fired a semiautomatic rifle killing two apparent strangers before shooting himself. Did Roberts tell a co-worker he inherited money and was moving to Hawaii? Was he living in a fantasy world? We`ll talk live to shoppers who were inside the mall during the deadly rampage.

And a war of words over storage wars. It has been hit reality TV show is now been hit with a lawsuit that claims the show is faked and that the producers regularly plant valuable items including a fancy car. We will tell you what A&E says and take your calls as we ask, is reality TV really real?

Plus, you won`t believe where Casey Anthony allegedly popped up now. Dining out in a restaurant wearing an odd white Vinnie. Somebody snapped a cell phone picture. What? And why now?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I honestly think it was just an open fair massacre just like a mall massacre.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: A festive holiday shopping atmosphere shattered by violence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The shots were really loud and really scary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard two shots and after that I heard about 15, 16 more shots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Started hiding behind counters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hit the floor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Police say a gunman opened fire inside the Clackamas town center mall near Portland, Oregon, Tuesday afternoon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE: We`re now able to share the identity of the suspect in this case. His name is Jacob Tyler Roberts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A matter of two or three seconds and then it was just rapid gunfire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were some people that were crying and there were children crying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t know it could happen. This is scary.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, we are going inside the mind of that Oregon mall shooter. What secrets drove this 22-year-old to sprint into a crowded mall wearing a hockey mask and open fire indiscriminately killing two strangers and injuring a teen girl.

Good evening. Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you live tonight.


AUSTIN PATTY, WITNESS, MACY`S EMPLOYEE: I honestly think it was just an open fire massacre just like a mall massacre. I mean, that`s the best way to describe it for me. Just -- I don`t know what he was going through or what happened. Just, I know he came in there on a mission. He ran in there fast.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cops say 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts stole a semiautomatic rifle from somebody he knew and then went on the shooting rampage inside a mall full of holiday shoppers. He managed to kill two people and injure another before shooting himself in the head. Cops say Roberts` victims are 54-year-old Cindy Ann Yuille (ph) as well as 45-year- old Steven Forsyth. He also injured 15-year-old Christina Shevchenko.

Investigators say many, many more could have died except that his gun jammed. Cops say they still have not been able to discover Roberts` motive for such a senseless, random crime. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE POLICE: During this attack, he was armed with an ar-15 semiautomatic rifle. The rifle was stolen yesterday from a person known to the suspect. We do not understand the motive of this attack. Except to say that there`s no apparent relationship between the suspect and his victims.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: But we`ve done some digging tonight and uncovered some secrets about this alleged shooter. Reports say he was a sandwich shop worker who had abruptly quit his job a couple weeks ago. Why? Could robbers have been even more unstable than his friends and family realize?

I`m taking your calls on this. Call me, 1-877- JVM-SAYS. 1-877-586- 7293.

Straight out to CNN correspondent Kyung Lah. You are outside the mall where this tragic massacre occurred. What is the very latest? What have you learned?

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that police right now are still, as you just mentioned, trying to figure out exactly what was the motive. They have been able to go in to the mall and pieced together exactly where he went through the mall, what type of weapon he used.

But, at this point, the big question of why, why would a seemingly normal 22-year-old, at least to his friends and family, why he would enter this mall with that stolen rifle and then fire indiscriminately into a crowd. That`s really the question here. We`ve spoken to his mother and his friends, family friends. And they all say that there was no warning signs. That you look at some of the other shootings -- Virginia tech, Aurora, Colorado Movie Theater. Those perpetrators that they had some significant warning signs. This case they say that there were no significant signs. That at this point the police are also saying they`re still trying to figure out the motive, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, have you learned anything about him?

LAH: What we do know is that he, at least to his friends and family, seemed to be relatively normal. He had moved into a new place about five to six months ago. We spoke to many of the neighbors in that area. It`s not that far away from this mall. And they say, you know, he just did what everybody else does. He comes in, he hangs out, he hangs out with the people in the house. Everyone in that house is about his age, in their 20s. He didn`t really create any problems in the neighborhood.

Not a lot of people spend a lot of time talking to him. We tried to talk to the people he lives with. They didn`t want to talk to us. So, from what we have been able to gather, it`s really been the people who have known him a long time, and they`re the ones who say there were no significant warning signs.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re learning that prior to his deadly rampage the shooter did some very strange things. According to "the Oregonian," a former neighbor told that newspaper that last spring Roberts showed her a handgun that he bought while they were both living at the apartment complex that just happens to be right next door to the mall had a that he just attacked.

He moved out in the summer. His co-worker at a sandwich shop told the paper Jacobs was always kidding around, but that he abruptly left his job just a couple weeks ago claiming he had recently inherited money from a relative and, quote, "planned to use that money to go to Hawaii." However, the co-worker said he missed his flight just this past weekend.

So I want to go to Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist, do you think the shooter may have been lying about suddenly inheriting money from a relative and moving to Hawaii? Was he perhaps actually disappearing into a fantasy world?

DOCTOR ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it could have been delusional or it could have been his way of helping himself feel better or not depressed. This his way of feeling adequate. He had a lot of money. He was going to go to Hawaii. So we really don`t know a lot about this person.

But, from what I`ve read, he tried to describe himself in really positive terms. And also described himself as drinking as well and using drugs. But, he described himself as loving his job. He had the best job in the whole world. And many people couldn`t say that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He works in a sandwich shop. Who has the best job in the world working in a sandwich shop?

LUDWIG: Well, that`s how he described himself. So, it makes me wonder if we`re looking at narcissism here, a way to describe oneself in an over blown-up way in order to feed one`s own deficient ego.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m looking at this young man and thinking here is a guy who was going nowhere fast working at a sandwich shop, kind of almost like a transient thing. He lives at this apartment complex next door to this mall. And then he moves and he`s working at a sandwich shop and then suddenly he quits and says I`m going to Hawaii. I inherited a lot of money which my gut tells me, I don`t know, I don`t think it`s true. I think he made it up and he was disappearing into a fantasy world, an alienated, lost person, who may have been jealous of all those happy shoppers who were in there in a cheerful holiday manner shopping and having a good time.

I want to go to one of those holiday shoppers. Erin Quackenbush- Baker, you were in the mall with your three precious children who are 10- months-old, 3-years-old and 5-years-old. Now, describe what happened. I understand your daughter put her hands over her ears and starting screaming when this rampage began.

First of all, thank you for joining us and I`m so happy that you`re safe and sound as well as your family. What did you see? What did you hear?

ERIN QUACKENBUSH-BAKER, WITNESS, MALL SHOOTING (via phone): I heard the gunshot initially and I knew exactly what it was. My grandmother was also with us. I don`t recommend having a 77-year-old and small children with you in a crisis situation. They don`t move very fast.

The first instinct was for me to run and, unfortunately, that wasn`t an option because I didn`t know which way to run because it was happening right in front of me and I was behind a kiosk. And we were looking at Christmas ornaments, thankfully, because moments prior I was in the center of the mall right where the gunman was and we had just stepped behind this kiosk. And everyone fell to the ground and I lost sight of my 3-year-old and I was desperate to find her and I was yelling, where is Noah? And apparently, my grandmother had laid on top of his hand, and I turned in my daughter who was still screaming and I pulled her to the ground as fast as I could. And as I was pulling her to the ground, a gentleman behind me was screaming a woman`s name and I could see in his eyes his fear and all I kept thinking was that he is watching her be shot.

And the whole time there are gunshots going off and it wasn`t a rapid fire. It was a methodical fire. It was -- to me it sounded intentional. It sounded successful. And I thought for sure that we were not going to survive this.

My 10-month-old was in a stroller and just out of reach and I stood up to grab him and I couldn`t get him out of the stroller fast enough so I get the entire stroller over and drug it to the side of the kiosk and just hoped this man was not going to come around and see me lying there. We were sitting ducks. There was no other way to describe it other than we were in like a shooting gallery and we were next. It sounded as if -- I was not able to see him because I had my head down -- it was so intentional that his shots were successful. So, that`s all I can imagine.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, what a compelling and chilling -- I have goose bumps, a chilling description of what you endured and to have three kids that you`re worried about sitting there not able to grab one, not knowing if they`re dead or alive, I can`t even imagine it. The horror. And why would somebody inflict horror on a stranger?

You don`t know this man. He didn`t know you. He didn`t know your family. He didn`t apparently know anybody who he traumatized and killed two and injured a third. Why? How come this is happening so much in America? Is this something we really need to look at? We just went through this a little while ago with the movie theater massacre. Now we have this again. Thank God in this case the gun jammed or it could have been a lot worse.

On the other side, more witnesses and we`ve got some more information that we are trying to piece together this puzzle why.



DAVID MORAN, WITNESS, MALL SHOOTING: We heard one gunshot from what we thought it sounded like something fell. And then, it was a matter of two or three seconds and then, it was just rapid gunfire.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were some people that were crying and there were children crying. They were scared and confused.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: According to witnesses Jacob Roberts was on a mission during the attack sprinting in and opening fire with a semiautomatic and this is what he said in his own words. Listen to what a witness heard the shooter say.


PATTY: I was like, oh, my God. And at that point I was kind of -- I was in such shock where I kind of just stood there. And then as I stood there in shock, like time slowed down and everything. Everything just got slow. And after that, all I heard was, I am the shooter, and then shots rang out. Five, six shots. And by that time I hit the floor and I just ran out.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lisa Bloom, legal analyst for, author of "swagger." How appropriate, your book about young men who swagger as opposed to just achieving. Here is this guy who says I am the shooter, meanwhile, he works at a sandwich shop, tells everybody I`m quitting because I inherited money and I`m going to move to Hawaii that he never makes a flight. Very good chanced, all that was made up, what do you make of this personality?

LISA BLOOM, LEGAL ANALYST, AVVO.COM: Well, I think you`re putting together a lot of important facts, Jane. This sounds like a young man with grandiose aspirations, you know delusional about what a terrific big man he was, I am the shooter. Somebody who is very enamored of guns and violence and explosions as many young men are. But, of course, he took it to a horrible extreme. And I would add to that, a complete lack of empathy. I mean, somebody who would go in and randomly shoot people during the holidays when they`re holiday shopping could have hit a little child. You know, could have hit anyone. And in fact, did kill two complete strangers whose families will be devastated forever because of his acts. A complete lack of concern about the effect his actions had on other people.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I would daresay, I would go further to say that he was angry at the world. Grandiosity was not in sync with the reality of his life which was pathetic. What easy, quick way to feel important. I am the shooter. I think it says a lot.

Let`s go out to the phone lines. Lisa, Toronto. Your question or thought. Lisa?

LISA, CALLER, TORONTO: Hi, Jane. Can I say, first of all quickly? I think it`s really sweet how you support victims and families and it`s great you do this every night Monday through Friday.

And my point is that, unfortunately, we had a situation go on here at the plaza called Eaton Center where a crazy guy walked into the plaza and started rampaging, shooting people like anything. There were quite a few people.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and I want to go back to Erin Quakenbush who were in the mall during the shooting. Was there a moment it was all over where you said what is happening to our culture? What is going on here? Bigger pick tire than just this one very demented person. But, is there something in the water as it were that`s causing more and are more of this senseless, random violence?

QUACKENBUSH-BAKER: You know, I would say yes, but I also feel the opposite. I think that it brought out the masses of good that`s there. During our situation glass was falling all around us. There was nowhere for us to go. And in the moment when apparently his gun jammed, which, thank God, he, one, didn`t know how to use the gun properly and didn`t shoot well, and, two, the gun jammed. A gentleman dressed in all black ran to me in the middle of all that and asked how he could help me get my family up and he got all of us up and got us into a Sephora (ph). And all the employees in there locked down the store, took us into the back, got candy for my children, got coloring books, got water. Let the baby play on the floor and laughed and played with us and kept everyone calm.

And so, in the wake of the horror, there was a moment to see the society that can still come together and still have compassion and love, and I think that it shouldn`t take a horror to show us that, but there are still people out there who love one another.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that was beautiful, Erin. And Dr. Robi Ludwig --

LUDWIG: Yes, I just wanted to say that, of course, there are great people out there and I think what the shooter, a vengeful shooter sees is that other people have it easy. Other people are being kind with one another, loving one another, other people are in successful relationships and have successful jobs, but they`re out of the mix. And they don`t have the skills to figure out how to make their life look like the fantasies that they have in their head.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they are jealous and they are in self-pity.

LUDWIG: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that is where the rage comes from. It`s resentment and self-pity. This all goes back to what they tell in the 12 steps. Keep your side of the street clean. You are not a victim. You are a participant. The people who commit the worst crimes invariably see themselves as victims.

More on the other side.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard two shots then 15 or 16 more shots and decided they were gunshots. So I hit the floor.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Holiday shopping marred by his deadly rampage. "The Oregonian" newspaper quote a former in the neighbor of the shooting. That he had a girlfriend but had broken up at one point. That possibly a factor in the equation that could trigger the feelings of the alienation, less in, resentment, anger at the world. He leaves his apartment, then, he abruptly quits his job, saying. I inherited a bunch of money. I am going to Hawaii. He never made the flight.

Was he making that up to sound important? He sounds alienated, like somebody drifting to like feeling less than, like he doesn`t belong.

And Tom Shamshak, a former police chief, private investigator, we know the holidays can be a trigger for people to become even more erratic.

TOM SHAMSHAK, FORMER POLICE CHIEF: Jane, good evening. This young man, in my assessment, was a simmering pressure cooker that exploded. Now what precipitated this break for him to go and steal this weapon and to unleash this carnage. You know, unfortunately, he was inexperienced with this weapon. That is the major reason that there is something that death toll here, in addition to having the weapon jammed.

But, he was out there shooting indiscriminately. And you know, unfortunately, this is something that happens around the holidays, the depression comes out, and when people have access to these kinds of lethal weapons, this is the toxic result -- Jane?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Let`s go out to the phone lines. Tamara, Missouri, your question or thought - Tamara.



TAMARA: To me it seems like this kind of thing is happening more often. And I hear people say a lot that the warning signs are always there when it comes to dealing with these kinds of situations. I tend to kind of disagree with that. I don`t think you can always look at somebody and determine what they`re capable of doing. And it seems to me, also, that the people that are doing these kinds of things seem to be college educated. Come from a stable home environment and have good jobs.

So I guess what I`m wondering is how do you determine what someone --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tamara, I want to go to Lisa Bloom because you wrote this book "swagger" about young men having the wrong values today. And this emphasis on violence and guns and the video games that essentially indoctrinate them to fire weapons and that obviously there`s a valid component of firing a rifle. If you`re feeling powerless, if your girlfriend has left you, if you feel impotent, how easy to feel powerful with a gun, rat-tat-tat - Lisa.

BLOOM: Well, this is what I talked about in the book. You know, we are raising our boys in a culture where every video game, TV show, and movie that boys love, teaches them that violence and especially gun violence, is the coolest way to solve your problems. Bang, bang, the bad guy is dead. Everybody cheers in the movie and you don`t see any consequences of gun violence in the media. You don`t see the families grieving, pain and agony for the victim.

When you add to that we have more guns per capita in the U.S. than any other country on the planet, we have extremely lax gun laws. And so, we are the country in the world where mass shootings happen. I traveled to 49 countries around the world. It is extremely rare this kind of thing happens elsewhere. Why? Because they`re young men. They have angry young men, too. They got alienation, too. But they don`t have access to firearms and especially to automatic weapons and that`s what causes the mass carnage.

As you know, a lot more people would have been killed. And I don`t want to have to keep relying on guns jamming or shooter being inexperienced. I would rather have stronger guns laws so that people shopping in malls can be protected.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I just want to bring Dr. Robi in for the final word on this. There are so many signs when you look back but hindsight is 20/20 and every young person has troubles.

LUDWIG: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: When I was in my 20s, oh, my God, I might have felt quite alienated and struggled with certain issues. So it`s always easy to look back and say, yes, they were lost, they were alienated as warning bells, how do we find those before the horror?

LUDWIG: Well, I mean, you can`t always predict violent behavior. But having said that, if we live in a more connected society where people feel OK sharing their feelings of alienation and they don`t feel like lesser for it or we make it acceptable to have a broad range of feelings.

You know, sometimes you don`t feel good, and that`s normal. If we have a society that is less anti-mental health and considering a range of feelings normal, maybe people won`t need to go to this extreme.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and maybe men need to learn to cry. It`s considered shameful still in the 21st century for a guy to try and maybe if men cried more often they would shoot less often.

On the other side of the break, we`re talking "storage wars." You won`t believe what`s happening now.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight there`s a real war brewing on the set of the A&E reality show, "Storage Wars". The show`s main character is suing after getting kicked off the show; Dave Hester claims the show is fake. Watch this.


DAVE HESTER, "STORAGE WARS": Well, when the door opens up, the main thing I`m looking at is a dollar amount that`s going to be generated by this room.

Wow, check these out. If these are authentic, I think we just hit a home run here. I know I can double what I count and then I can throw a little bit extra in for the surprises. And a lot of times in this business it`s not what you see that makes you money. It`s what you don`t see that makes you money.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are the secrets hidden inside the storage lockers on the hit A&E show, "Storage Wars" planted, faked, rigged? That`s what reality star and super bidder Dave Hester is claiming in this lawsuit against A&E. And he wants the network to fork over $750,000 or could this be a case sour grapes for the man known as the mogul on the show. After all, Dave Hester got the boot, kicked out, after he claims he expressed concern that planting valuable merchandise inside the lockers might be illegal. So is Dave Hester, Mr. Yep, trying to even the score?

Here is a clip from A&E.


HESTER: I think I`ve got a little bid on this.








VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yep. A&E "Storage Wars" is all about the element of surprise. What will bidders find inside the abandoned units they buy? In his lawsuit Dave Hester claims show producers planted valuable items inside the units to make the show more interesting. He also claims the show rigs the bidding process. Hester goes as far as to say that the network paid one female cast member`s plastic surgery to increase her you know what, vavavoom.

Is it fair to say that Dave Hester isn`t exactly popular with the other cast members at least on the A&E show?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I show up to the auction, all I really need to know is today I want to beat Dave and then I see how Dave is that day. Is he a little too gung ho? Is he being reserved? Is he thinking that he`s the best thing in the world? Whatever the case may be, I figure out what that weakness is for the day and I exploit that and that`s how I beat him.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: A&E says it does not comment on pending litigation but when questions surfaced a while about the show`s authenticity, the network said in a statement that "There is no staging involved. The items uncovered in the storage units are the actual items featured on the show."

So who is telling the truth here, and do viewers even care whether these reality shows are really, really, really real? Call me 1-877-586- 7297, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.

Straight out to Dylan Howard,, editor in chief; wow, as we watch some clips from A&E "Storage Wars" what do you make of this lawsuit?

DYLAN HOWARD, CELEBUZZ.COM: It`s probably the most explosive reality TV lawsuit that we`ve seen and there have been a number but this strikes at the very core of what these shows are about. And Dave Hester makes no mistakes about how serious he is with this. He`s hired the most powerful legal pitbull in Hollywood, a lawyer who generally represents A-list actors such as Jennifer Lopez and Ryan O`Neal, a lawyer by the name of Marty Singer. That`s how serious he is about this.

That said, though, it remains to be seen what evidence he has to substantiate the claims. A report tonight suggesting that Dave, he`s sitting on a cachet of documents, receipts, invoices, potential e-mails that may indeed prove that this is all just a hoax.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, another reality show VH-1`s "Love and Hip-Hop" is set in Atlanta and follows the relationship between a local rap artist and his girlfriend and their circle of friends. Here is a clip from that fabulous VH-1 show.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let`s watch the tape.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want people to really understand that there`s more to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are girls that I would never even sit down and have lunch with.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joining us now the fabulous Mona Scott Young, executive producer of "Love and Hip-Hop" and CEO of Mon Ami Entertainment. I have to say your cast members are a heck of a lot better looking than the folks on "Storage Wars". Let`s put it right there.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s for real. But I think the bottom line is everybody has wondered about these reality shows. I mean do people really act that crazy? Obvious if you`re sitting around reading a book you`re going to get written out pretty quick.

SCOTT-YOUNG: Right. Exactly. And I think, you know, when you`re casting these shows, which is a big component when you`re putting together a cast, you`re looking for people who are ready to live their lives out loud, who aren`t afraid to voice their opinions openly. So I think the casting is a big part of what you get ultimately. So, you know, in that process you`re not going to choose someone or cast someone who doesn`t seem like they`re prepared to go out there and be honest and open and loud about the way they want to live.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I always wonder. Ok, so you`re in a reality show. You`re walking around with a bunch of cameras, and you know, you walk in and there`s something disgusting sitting there on the table. Does somebody yell cut, and say get that piece of junk off the table, we`re going to reshoot that? Everybody get back outside and walk through that door in again?

SCOTT-YOUNG: Well, it all depends. Sometimes you do have to redo certain things because of something like that. Someone unintentionally walks into the scene or something else happened that detracts from what you are trying to capture at that moment. But for the most part when you talk about, you know, whether it is real, we don`t ever tell them what to say. We don`t ever tell them what to do. Do we decide let`s have this conversation in a restaurant or at your a house? Certainly because you have to set the stage for it, you have to bring the cameras somewhere.

We know that there`s a certain amount of production that goes into making the show. But everything that actually transpires on the show, that`s all them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love it. Well, you`ve answered a question I`ve wondered about for a long time.

More on the other side. We have some clips you`ve got to see.



MARISA ZANUCK, REALITY TV STAR: I`m addicted to reality TV. It is a lot of fun. It is all of the crazy things that normal people as a whole don`t really see in everyday life.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. Dave Hester from "Storage Wars" was making about $25,000 an episode with a spending account, signing perks, and then he was fired. Here he is on A&E "Storage Wars".


HESTER: When the door opens up, the main thing I`m looking at is the dollar amount that`s going to be generated by this room.

Wow, check these out. If these are authentic, I think we`ve just hit a home run here.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to Andy Dehnart, editor of and director of journalism at Stetson University. Ok, in this lawsuit essentially he`s alleging that A&E regularly plants valuable items or memorabilia including, he said, a small BMW buried in a pile of trash. Could the producers actually be in trouble if he has documentation? Which I have no idea -- again, they`re saying nothing to see here.

ANDY DEHNART, EDITOR, REALITYBLURRED.COM: I don`t know. I think they could be in trouble -- I don`t know about the law in terms of what storage facilities and auctions but in terms of the authenticity of the show, absolutely. Because I think people wouldn`t have made this for a while the most popular cable reality series if they thought it was like let`s make a deal where somebody just put in a donkey or a BMW behind one of that storage locker doors.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, it reminds me -- what was that old show that got into trouble because it was staged? It was rigged. But that, it turned out, involved prizes. This is something completely different. And I`m not saying it`s true. Again, A&E is saying it`s not true. This is a lawsuit that has been filed. We`re just reporting on what he filed.

But let`s take a look at the larger picture. We see crazy stunts on reality shows all the time like the infamous cable flip on Bravo`s "Real Housewives of New Jersey". Who could forget this gem?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just got mad and I guess it`s an Italian thing and we just do that. My father did it, my brother did it. I never did it. This is my first time doing it.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: We talked to one of the "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" who says it`s not staged. Mona Scott-Young, creator of VH-1`s "Love and Hip-Hop" which, by the way, you have to watch the new season in New York, January 7, VH-1 -- but it doesn`t take a brain surgeon if you kick somebody, pull their hair, scream, and knock over a table, they`re obviously going to feature that. So that`s how you become famous in the reality TV world, right?

SCOTT-YOUNG: I mean there`s a little bit of that because there`s, of course, the attention that`s paid to the more inflammatory scenes on the show but I also think that there`s probably, you know, some measure of people taking it very personally when they feel like they`ve been insulted or humiliated publicly.

I mean someone hurls an insult at you. It isn`t just you and them in the room. It`s 6 million people watching. And I think sometimes that heightens the level as well. And people tend to get carried away, you know.

I certainly have seen people act out of character as they`ll say themselves after, you know, getting into an altercation or an argument with someone and they do things that they later on regret and can`t believe they did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Lisa Bloom, author of "Swagger"; in this case we see a lot of women swaggering around as well as men but there is a certain, I would say, unreality to reality TV that we all kind of acknowledge, that people don`t run around dressed to the nines with expensive jewelry slugging each other 9:00 to 5:00 on a normal day.

LISA BLOOM, AUTHOR, "SWAGGER": Yes. My first book, "Think", really takes to task reality shows. And I`m going to disagree with Mona. I`m sure her show is completely honest and ethical. But I`ve represented a lot of people who were participants in reality shows who say the shows are about one percent reality and 99 percent show. They sign these several hundred page long contracts and a bigger contract than I had to sign to buy a house. They sign away all of their rights. I`m sure he signed a similar contract and it will probably get thrown out of court based on that if he did sign the standard contract.


BLOOM: They can be defamed. The shows can lie. That`s what the contracts say. And people say that there are a lot of lies on these shows. I think the shows are terrible by the way in the way that they represent women.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, humans. I think it`s terrible how they represent humans. Mona, we`re going to give you the last word. Just ten seconds, unfortunately, my dear.

SCOTT-YOUNG: I don`t know what to say. I think what you are capturing is a slice of these people`s lives. It`s not a total representation of who they are across the board. Of course, for the purposes of making entertaining television, you capture the more salacious moments, the moments that are going to get the audience`s attention. But for the most part, I don`t think they are a total representation of anyone on these shows.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And, remember, a lot gets left on the editing room floor -- all the polite behavior.

On the other side, Casey Anthony -- you will not believe. I`m not kidding.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for "Pet o` the Day". Send your pet pics to And Elmo, you are just stunning. And Duchess, look at you -- regal, royal, fabulous, fantastic. And let`s see who we have here -- Lucy and Huckleberry -- what a team, what a team. They don`t go anywhere without each other, I can tell.



CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED FOR DAUGHTER`S DEATH: You want me to talk, then give me three seconds to say something.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll listen. Go sweetheart.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control over any of this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We, the jury, find the defendant not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People hate her and that`s because they don`t know her.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: One of the most hated women in America out of her secret hiding place. Casey Anthony reportedly snapped enjoying freedom at a Florida restaurant with a mystery man, plus the private detective who worked with her defense team, Pat McKenna although he wasn`t photographed.

This is basically what she looks like now, not the actual photo. We were just having some fun here but she had long brown hair, was wearing a white beanie of all things, looking a lot like the Casey we knew from the trial, less like she did in the YouTube video diary while in hiding on probation. Remember this?


CASEY ANTHONY: I`m extremely excited. I`m extremely excited I`ll be able to Skype and obviously keep a video log, take some pictures, and that I have something that I can finally call mine.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: That didn`t last long. Lisa Bloom, what does it mean she`s out now in public not in disguise?

BLOOM: Well, she is trying to regain her life, I suppose, doing something normal like going to a restaurant and having wings allegedly with a couple of people. The problem is that although Casey Anthony was acquitted she is really going to be in a kind of prison for many, many years because she can`t really go out in public without something like this happening.

She has to be hidden under a hat. She`s got to be with men who might protect her like that private investigator who may be doing security for her. She`s going to be hounded wherever she goes so, really, she is not a free woman.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and this is in the Palm Beach County area. It`s like why is she in Florida? This sighting comes on the heels of news that some people are even angrier than normal at Casey. Here is why.


JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: We were waiting for the state to bring it up. And when they didn`t, we were kind of shocked.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: The sheriff`s office botched the investigation, we just learned recently, into little Caylee`s death by failing to find key evidence and handing it over to the prosecutors. The search on her computer for foolproof suffocation on the day the child was allegedly murdered.

So, Lisa, to come out now a couple weeks after that revelation, that`s dicey maybe.

BLOOM: Yes, that revelation was very disturbing to me. Foolproof suffocation and then that person went on MySpace and only Casey Anthony went on MySpace in that household. Who is the fool in foolproof suffocation? Is it her parents? Is it the media? Is it the jury? Is it all of us? Were we all played for fools and now she is not behind bars, you know? That is so disturbing, Jane. It really is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I just don`t believe that they missed that because they analyzed the wrong search engine -- unbelievable. More on the other side.



CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on.

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down baby.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak. You want me to talk then give me three seconds to say something.

CINDY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll listen to you. Go sweetheart.


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony reportedly photographed having dinner at a Palm Beach County restaurant in Florida just this past Friday, and I don`t understand, Lisa Bloom, why this young lady does not, given everything, leave Florida, leave the United States. Get a job somewhere on the other side of the world where she is not instantly recognizable.

BLOOM: Well, because that`s her home, Florida. Where is she going to go? I don`t think she has any money. At least she has a private investigator who`s going to go to dinner with her and probably keep an eye out for her. I mean you`re right. But where else is she going to go in the U.S. that people aren`t going to recognize Casey Anthony?

Maybe she could leave the country but even internationally this case has gotten a lot of attention.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, but I just -- I don`t know how anybody can live like that and, remember, she is facing a defamation case but that`s been pushed back until all her appeals have been exhausted. Yes, she was found guilty of lying and she is appealing that, too.

So an absolutely unbelievable saga and the Lifetime movie is coming up. And that`s coming up pretty soon. So we`ll keep you posted on that. We`ll give you advanced warning. You`ll know when that`s coming down the pike.

All right, what a night.

Nancy`s next.