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CNN NEWSROOM

Lawmakers Brawl in Ukraine; New Twists and Turns in McAfee Case; From Anorexic to Yoga Instructor; Congressmen Want Drone Data Public; Politically Themed Holiday E-Cards

Aired December 13, 2012 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: If you think that the verbal jabs among our members of Congress are bad, take a look at this.

Was that a headlock? Are you watching this with me? Lawmakers shoving and punching and climbing over one another, one person's ear was torn. I'm not kidding, ear torn as the fight broke out. This is day two of this. Where is this? You see there on the screen the Ukraine.

This is the parliament there. They are trying to elect a new prime minister and speaker and here's the thing. According to Ukrainian law, police can't jump in. Lawmakers there cannot be punished so scenes like that are apparently not uncommon.

OK, allegations of a political bribe, murder, climbing through underbrush to cross borders and a fake heart attack. No, not talking about a plot for a movie, folks, I'm talking about real life developments here in this bizarre case surrounding software millionaire, John McAfee.

His neighbor in Belize seen here, this is Gregg Faull was found shot in the head last month so police there want to talk to McAfee. McAfee said no way, he claims close to four dozen soldiers showed up at his house back in April, handcuffed him and shot his dog after he refused to pay a $2 million bribe to a politician.

So he has been in hiding. Where did he turn up? Across the border from Belize in Guatemala, but officials there don't want him. They start talking about sending him back to Belize.

So then what does he do? Remember this medical emergency? We talked about this on TV the one that had his jailers rushing him to the hospital? Listen to this as he explained he faked the whole thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The heart issue --

JOHN MCAFEE, SOFTWARE PIONEER: I'm sorry?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The issues with your heart. MCAFEE: OK, because as soon as he got to Belize, the prime minister of Belize called the president of Guatemala and said we want him back here. If nothing happened, I would be returning to Belize at that moment. So unfortunately, I guess, the pressure gave me a heart attack and so I have got one. That was after I got well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Where is he now? You saw the palm trees. He is at a Swinky Hotel in Miami Beach. That is also where John Zarrella is. John Zarrella, I know you talked to McAfee. You are in the hotel room face-to-face with this man. Is he making all this up or is there any merits to his claims of government corruption in Belize?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, who knows whether there is any merit to his actual claims of government corruption down there, but I can tell you this after sitting with him for an hour at the hotel right behind me, the beacon where he is staying.

He absolutely believes that and he even said that this whole thing about the murder of the American businessman, Gregory Faull, is not the story at all. It all goes back to what you mentioned. He didn't pay that bribe to the local politician and because of that the government down there is out to get him.

In essence would have framed him for the murder of Gregory Faull. That's who prompted him to leave Belize, illegally entered Guatemala and ultimately end up back here in the United States when Guatemala threw him out.

BALDWIN: Well, we know Belize police want to talk to him and so when it comes to the possibility of being extradited back there, McAfee says he is not worried at all. Here's what he said last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you worry that the U.S. and Belize have extradition treaties?

MCAFEE: I'm not worried at all. If I'm in front of a court, there is nothing in the world they will do to send me back. They have no evidence. I have tons of evidence about the corruption, the harassment beginning with the attack on my property in April.

Of course, I'm not worried. I'd be happy to stand in front of a judge, just not one in Belize. I mean, if you read my blog, for seven months, I have been speaking out against the government openly.

I am a torn in their side and they want to shut me up. Unfortunately, now that I'm here, they cannot shut me up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So John, if he thinks the Belize government is after him, I am so afraid of the government and why not Skype with them. Why not go there with U.S. officials. There are options. No? ZARRELLA: Well, the bottom line for him is, look, I'm not charged with any crime. Why should I go there? All they wanted me for was questioning. While the United States and Belize have an extradition agreement, unless Belize were to file some formal charges against him, he's not going anywhere.

It's his legal right to stay here and not go anywhere. He told me that the FBI has not questioned him at all about this case to this point -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, John Zarrella on Miami Beach. Thanks, John.

Chelsea Roff nearly died as a teenager from an eating disorder. Now she teaches yoga at juvenile detention centers and workshops all across the country. In this week's "Human Factor," Dr. Sanjay Gupta shows us how she turned her life around.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When you see Chelsea Roff now, looking happy and vibrant, it's nearly impossible to imagine the day she said part of her brain died. At just 15 years old, Roth suffered a stroke brought on by severe anorexia.

CHELSEA ROFF, AUTHOR, SPEAKER AND YOGA TEACHER: I now know from looking at hospital records I was 58 pounds.

GUPTA: At 58 pounds and close to dying because so many parts of her body were failing. There no pictures of Roff at her sickest. This picture is from about a year earlier when she was in and out of treatment centers. But she remembers how starting a diet with her mom in the midst of a difficult and dangerous childhood spiralled into a disorder that nearly killed her.

ROFF: Looking back, I think my body was my only way to tell the people around me that something wasn't OK. I was scared and that I was hurting and I need help.

GUPTA: Help came for Roff when she was hospitalized for 18 months following her stroke.

ROFF: I had a bed. I had nurses and doctors that showed up every day and were consistent and I had food and I had water and I was finally getting digestive function back.

GUPTA: As part of the recovery, her therapist suggested she try yoga to start listening to her body without burning too many calories. Almost immediately she was hooked.

ROFF: Before I knew it, I gained 20 or 30 pounds and had done yoga teacher training and was teaching yoga in a juvenile detention center. It became sort of a love affair for me. My name is Chelsea. I was a patient of doctor -- GUPTA: Today she writes and shares her story with other patients who struggle with eating disorders as well as her loved ones.

ROFF: I tell these girls that I am not afraid of my fullness.

GUPTA: She is quick to point out that yoga is not a cure for anything. It's one of many tool when is used correctly, helped her rebuild her life.

ROFF: You can live in your body fully and have happiness. That's for me the biggest thing.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Sanjay Gupta, thank you. Make sure you watch "SANJAY GUPTA MD" Saturday at 4:30 p.m. Eastern and Sunday morning 7:30 a.m. Eastern only here on CNN.

The use of combat drones, two congressmen normally on opposite sides of the spectrum are taking on the White House and one of them is demanding the administration reveal its secrets. Congressman Dennis Kucinich joins me live to talk all about it next.

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BALDWIN: The use of combat drones by the Obama administration is forging a political odd couple here in the House of Representatives, Democrat Dennis Kucinich and Republican Ron Paul.

President Obama has ordered more drone strikes in his first term than President Bush did in his combined terms. In fact, the strike just last week killed a senior al Qaeda leader in Pakistan near the border of Afghanistan.

And now these two congressmen, they want President Obama to release all the information, the data, the detail, the documents here on these drone strikes that he has ordered against many terrorists.

Representative Kucinich joins me live from Capitol Hill. Congressman Kucinich, welcome back. It's nice to see you.

REPRESENTATIVE DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: Thank you. Good to be with you.

BALDWIN: The Judiciary Committee actually did address this today, but tell me why, why you are challenging the president?

KUCINICH: It's not about challenging the president, but up holding the constitution of the United States. No president has the right to launch missile attacks on another country without congressional approval. No president has the right to take away someone's right to due process of law.

They happen to be an American citizen abroad and we've asked for the legal justification. That's what we are looking at. I mean, three years is a long time to wait. Three hundred drone strikes is enough time to say to the White House, where is your justification legally?

BALDWIN: Let me jump in because I just want to throw something up on the screen because we have listed multiple terrorist who have been killed by these drone strikes here including Anwar Al-Awlaki in Yemen who was an American.

It's hard to argue that America is not safer without these men, Congressman. So my question is what's the alternative would we invade countries and round up these suspects from prosecution that would likely never happen? Might that be worse?

KUCINICH: You know, what you are describing ends up being kind of a multidimensional game of whack a mole. Everyone that we say they are killing, someone pops up to take their place. Worse than that, innocent civilians are being killed.

The Bureau of Investigative Journalism said over 1,000 innocent civilians. Some of these were before Mr. Obama who have been killed in these drone strikes. There's no -- look, we are a country of laws. If we are a country of laws, then we uphold the constitution and Congress has to have accountability here.

BALDWIN: I want to ask you about civilians killed. I know, they called basically collateral damage and I want to ask about a 16-year- old who was killed because of a drone strike.

The thing is and I know your concerns and Congressman Paul's concerns. The drone program is inciting hatred against the U.S. right now. But Congressman, what about concerns of inciting even more global hatred when the secrets and documents would be unveiled?

KUCINICH: No. We are not a secret government. Who are we as America? We now will have official secrets and the American people can't know that not even Congress can know?

BALDWIN: But there things that members of Congress do behind closed doors. Can't some of this be kept a secret?

KUCINICH: No. You cannot have a democracy and even pretend to have a democracy if you are operating in secret. This move towards secrecy and being able to use deadly force without legal justification undermines our democracy and doesn't make us safer.

BALDWIN: Should there be a special judicial system? Should there be a special court system as a counter measure? What are you proposing?

KUCINICH: That Congress to exercise its oversight. That's exactly what started to happen today because of the resolution that Mr. Paul and I put forward. It's a resolution that required the judiciary committee to have a hearing and it was a broad discussion. Frankly that discussion was the first time that they had a discussion about U.S. drone policy.

BALDWIN: Let me ask you this as you take a sip there. I know Congressman Paul back in the town hall back in October and he was asked about this specifically. He said as we look down to make sure I am quoting him, the president's targeted killing of American born al Qaeda leader might be an impeachable offense. Do you agree?

KUCINICH: Look, it's sensational for any of us to claim that something is an impeachable offense. If I were to say that, that would be your banner, I am saying that the president has to account to the constitution. The Congress has to have oversight and Congress has to have the information in order to make sure the laws are being followed.

BALDWIN: So in doing that, was the president working outside of the lines of the constitution. Let me ask it that way.

KUCINICH: There is questions as to whether there is constitutional authority, the authority of international law, and whether there is accurate oversight. Those are legitimate questions and they have to be asked and if we are violating the constitution.

If we are proceeding to say that because we like the president, we should give him the power to determine who shall live and die overseas without proof or file or anything, worse than that to kill innocent civilians with no recourse for the families. What have we become as a nation?

BALDWIN: Congressman, we appreciate it and will follow wherever the solution goes. Congressman Dennis Kucinich, thank you so much.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

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BALDWIN: Right around this time of the year, I know your inbox gets jammed full of E-cards, pictures your friends wearing festive holidays sweaters, invites to holiday parties, E-cards about politics. You heard me right. Take a look at this.

These E-cards are becoming huge like this one, quote, "I'm excited about all things Obama and Congress will pretend to accomplish this year." Here's another one. "It's extremely important to watch the debates if you want to understand the jokes about it on Twitter.

Let's talk to Shannon Travis about this. Our political reporter joining me from Washington and let me throw one more in because it's fun. One upside would be the end of people arguing about politics on Facebook. I find it fun because I don't reveal myself, but why are these so huge?

SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Brooke, those are the tamer ones by the way. They are huge if you think of it like this. You take a topic on people's minds already and finding the ridiculous in it. You might be talking to co-workers around the water cooler about the debt ceiling and the candidates and what have you.

Let's say you went to a comedy show and you might have your own thoughts. A comedian came with a killer punch line about some of those topics that were on your mind. That's what these cards do. They take something that might be thinking this is ridiculous and silly and very succinctly and quickly and in a snarky way put it on a headline and it's moving to news.

You see that in instances like the "Onion," the "Daily Show" and of course, "Gawker." So we are seeing more and more of that. That's why they are so popular and stick in people's minds.

BALDWIN: Some of them are popular. Some of there are graphic. We will not show some of those. It's a family program, Shannon Travis. Thank you very much. But there were some that definitely were pointed toward the candidates like this one, quote, "Hope you can relax and mentally check out this weekend as much as Obama did during the debate. Ouch.

And then you have this one. Romney refusal to explain how he'll accomplish anything reminds me of all my PowerPoint presentations. Now humorous as they maybe, you think the e-cards that are popping up in inboxes around the country, do they sway public opinion or are they just funny?

TRAVIS: Yes, I think they are more so just funny and not swaying public opinion. I talked with the two cofounder of some e-cards today. They talked to me about how they get the news of the day and a group of writers and contributors who pitch things. In terms of swaying, what they do at most is they confirm what you may have thought about President Obama or already thought about Mitt Romney.

BALDWIN: Or the fiscal cliff.

TRAVIS: Or the fiscal cliff as you mentioned off the top. It's the notion of putting it myself in this kind of what I was thinking.

BALDWIN: Political pop. Shannon Travis, thank you. Coming up next, rocking for a cause.

A little Jon Bon to Bruce Springsteen to Kanye West, big names, bigger concert all for Hurricane Sandy relief. How much did this mega rock- a-thon bring in? Those details are coming up next.

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