Return to Transcripts main page
Aired December 14, 2012 - 21:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: This is a day like no other. We have moved into a different realm with what has happened today, and I hope you`ll join me for a special expanded edition of DR. DREW ON CALL. We`re going to talk about how you feel whether you live in Connecticut or across the country.
Any one who has heard the news today has been affected by this. Your family, your children, we`ve all been affected. I want to hear from you. 855-DrDrew5.
Joining me first up here, psychologist, Dr. David Swanson. I also have Rita Cosby in Connecticut at a memorial service in Newtown, Connecticut. Rita, can you hear me out there? No, Rita is not on yet. So, David, let`s talk here for a second. Everybody all day -- now, one of the things that`s natural for people to do is ask why.
Your brain wants to understand. So, that`s a natural instinct we all have. The media has done a great job today of trying to tell people what happened.
DAVID SWANSON, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right.
PINSKY: But in terms of coming to terms with why this happened, that may be a misguided effort.
SWANSON: Well, look, we all want to know why because what happened today was a couple things. Not only was our sense of security robbed from us, but the security of our children. So many of us have to go to work and leave our kids at school, and to think that, in some way this could happen, is terrifying.
SWANSON: So, to understand why this happens in some way is designed to make us feel better, and unfortunately, you can`t do that.
PINSKY: Right. To make us feel control of our environment. But the fact is somebody did an irrational thing. Somebody in an irrational state did an irrational thing, so to try to understand it rationally --
SWANSON: Listen, it`s very easy (ph) for both of us. We`re both in the mental health field. We can say that this was clearly some type of mental illness involved or drugs.
PINSKY: Let`s stop there. Hang on a second. I`ve got so much to say today. Please stay with me because I am full. My heart is full tonight, and I`ve got a lot to say. One of them is, I don`t even like to call this one mental illness. I`m normally the guy, and so are you, sitting here with me. We were just here --
SWANSON: Yes. Two nights ago.
PINSKY: -- two nights ago talking about the Oregon shooting, and we were saying, well, there seemed to be a psychotic episode. He was disconnected from reality for whatever period of time, drugs, mania, schizophrenia, something disconnected him. This is not that.
SWANSON: Well, this is a lot different, because in this case, unlike two nights ago, you have a very specific target.
PINSKY: Goal-oriented, willful.
PINSKY: This guy drove from New Jersey to Connecticut with the intent to kill.
SWANSON: Yes --
PINSKY: Hours and hours of intent to do so, and there`s no evidence of like a psychotic break. He wasn`t becoming a loner. He wasn`t -- think of the Aurora, Colorado shooter. He was all this evidence of unraveling --
PINSKY: This sounds more to me -- again, the fact that this in cold blood, this animal went in and shot children puts this whole thing in such a different category.
PINSKY: I actually get upset. I`m upset at the media for putting this in the same category as Virginia Tech.
SWANSON: No, it`s different.
PINSKY: It is different. This is somebody shooting at close range kindergartners.
SWANSON: By nature are designed to be cute and cuddly and get us to love them, and to think of such an act like this against children like that is atrocious.
PINSKY: Now, we`ve got a call on the line. I`m not sure what -- Bobbi, Bobbi, you got something for me?
BOBBI, OREGON: Yes, Dr. Drew. I talked to you before after Colorado.
BOBBI: And we just had the tragedy in Oregon. And I live in Oregon, and I am so heartbroken and I can`t get my head around it, and I want to cry and I can`t cry. And so, all I`ve been doing all day is praying.
PINSKY: Oh, Bobbi, that`s good. Please do that. Listen, just that collective effort, that collective positive thinking. However, you want to understand prayer, please, everybody, that could be positive. Let me ask you this, Bobbi. What do you need from people in authority, from leaders, from the media?
What can help you get yourself out of this and help you feel like we`re back in control of our environment again?
BOBBI: Well, I believe we need gun control, and I believe we need an officer at every school and public building.
PINSKY: Let`s just -- are we there? I hate to think that. I like to think, Bobbi, that we can come together as communities, identify people at risk, be more sophisticated about how we deal with them once we find them. I want to go out to Rita Cosby. Rita, you`re at a memorial service in Newtown.
Can you tell us -- listen, to say things like what`s the mood there, please, I mean, it`s just -- I`m sure it defies words, but are you learning anything new? have you met any of the parents who have suffered so deeply today?
RITA COSBY, JUST ATTENDED VIGIL IN NEWTOWN, CT: Yes, I`ve met a number of them, and, in fact, everybody in this community seems to know somebody just when I -- even before I came to the church here, Dr. Drew, where they had a very incredibly somber, so overwhelming. I mean, the people, the outpouring of support from the community has been beautiful.
But everybody there was just crying, and it was very difficult for me. I was going over to the neighbors` houses knocking on doors, asking them if they knew the family. Every single neighbor who answered the door, Dr. Drew, and I`ve covered a lot of stories in my day, they were in tears, just bawling. They know the family.
I talked to a number of people who know the mother well, who`ve seen the kids, and they are just absolutely devastated, just overcome with grief and just trying to find out who was inside, who made it out, who didn`t make it out. And the parents, I talked to a father whose little girl was inside and just narrowly missed being shot.
And he was just -- he hugged me and was holding me and saying, I`m so glad my daughter is here tonight. It`s been overwhelming, the emotions, from everyone in this community.
PINSKY: Rita, how about the families who did lose somebody? Are they out with their community or are they held up just with family?
COSBY: Well, so far, we have not seen them, and I believe that they are holed up. A number of them have been talking to authorities. Also, we know that grief counselors are talking to them. The issue right now, too, Dr. Drew, is the little children. They are still inside the school, because authorities are still looking at that area as a crime scene.
So, can you imagine the emotions of these poor parents? First of all, they were waiting there at the fire station. Everybody said go to the fire station, find out if your children are OK. They waited at the fire station, and suddenly, their children didn`t show up. So, now, they`re dealing just with overwhelming grief. They can`t even see their child because it`s still a crime scene.
PINSKY: Right, it`s still a crime scene. I mean, this is -- you know, when I got the first call this morning, some of the anchors were asking, what must those parents be thinking in the firehouse who aren`t with their children?
Ladies and gentlemen, you do not need to use your imagination. There simply could not be a worse feeling than my child is not here, and I know the ones that aren`t here are amongst the dead. Now, I mean, you talk about torture. Now, they, of course, have the support of their community and loved ones, but now, they`re home knowing that their child is still crumpled in a crime scene, crawling with examiners.
It`s too much. This is too much, guys. This takes us to a world that I don`t want to be a part of, frankly. This killing, like you said, we are designed biologically to have the most kindest, tenderest feelings to protect the little ones.
PINSKY: Really, what is it the ultimate sort of purpose of civilization and society to successfully bring those young kindergartners into adulthood, into productivity.
PINSKY: We can`t even protect them.
SWANSON: You know, look, we`ve been talking about this all day long, and I think the thing that is upsetting you so much and probably upsetting me as well is that we both know that as much as we try to explain this, there is no way to explain this. And by the way, this is not the time to be explaining anything.
So many of us, whether you`re in Connecticut or whether you`re here, have gone through such a huge trauma, it`s time to get together as a family, to hold the people you love.
SWANSON: Yes. Yes.
PINSKY: Admit to our families, get together as a community, get together as a state, right? Don`t we need to rebuild ourselves?
SWANSON: Look, and not only -- look, Drew, we can look at the Instacheck System and we can see that people that have disqualifying mental illnesses, only one percent of them are in that system. We can look at the fact that mental illness is, oftentimes, ignored. We can look at all that stuff, but now is not the time. Now is not the time.
That`s the thing I think you and I are both getting frustrated with is that they`re always looking for answers, but in this point right now, it`s a time for healing.
PINSKY: Right. I agree with you that, but listen, if we don`t start addressing these things, and we need to address now, we`re going to forget about them once it fades into the background, and this one is going to be a tough one to get over, though.
SWANSON: I agree.
PINSKY: All right. Next, I`m going to talk to a father whose child was at the school when the gunfire broke out. Also, I want to talk to you, 855-DrDrew5.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All I can say is that one of the cops said it was, you know, the worst thing he`d ever seen in his entire career, but it was when they told the parents, all these parents who were waiting for their children to come out, they thought that they were, you know, still alive. There was 20 parents that were just told that their children are dead. It was awful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes, just awful. We`ve crossed to a place today that is just unexplainable. Rita Cosby out there in Connecticut at a vigil. Rita, thank you for staying with us. I know you`re freezing to death out there, and I`ve seen you jumping around during the breaks. I appreciate you staying with us.
People are trying to figure out how it is that a school that is secure that has a plan was penetrated so easily by someone with such evil intent. Can you tell us what you`ve learned about that?
COSBY: Well, I have talked to a number of people in the community here today, and I talked to a number of people who were speaking while I was there, literally, with people inside the school. This is, of course, after the shooting. But what they said was that that principal at that school had just put in a big safety measure.
In fact, she just e-mailed basically all the parents in the community just a few months ago and said we`re beefing up protections in the school. We`re going to be doing standard policy. After 9:30, nobody can come in. There has to be a visual. If we don`t know who the person is, they have to show I.D., they have to be cleared, they have to be buzzed in.
Remember, this happened shortly after 9:30. Now, two people I talked to -- this has not been confirmed by officials, Dr. Drew, but two people I talked said that they spoke to people who are in the school, and that they -- one person heard glass shattering, another said they were told by another teacher in there that he may have broken into the school.
In other words, may have shot his way, shot at the door at the glass window, then put his hand through and then opened the door by doing it that way, and that could explain how he got into the school. There are other reports of other things that could happen. Remember, his mother worked in the school. She was a teacher there in the school.
So, it could also be possible that they also may have recognized him, but there are two reports, and we do know that there`s a lot of glass in the location, I`ve been told, from authorities inside. So, it could be possible despite all these measures, he may have sort of shot his way in and then put his hand through again and opened the door and then got in.
I`m also told, Dr. Drew, that that sound of the glass shattering is what triggered a number of teachers to go outside. A couple of people heard that. That`s when the principal also went out and that`s when we understand there was some sort of altercation and then words were said over the loudspeaker that went out through the school. That`s when everybody in the school knew there was something going on wrong.
COSBY: There was some sort of swear words, some altercation going on, and that`s when the teachers just grabbed the kids and hid them.
PINSKY: And I`ve got to say, Rita, I`ve seen in secure lockdown units in a psychiatric hospital agitated patients blow through glass like you`re talking about and actually dive through. I`ve seen superhuman sort of circumstances around those glass barriers in units that are supposed to be secure, so this does not surprise me.
Thank you, Rita. I`ve got Richard Wilford, the father of a child who attends Sandy Hook Elementary School. He`s on the phone with me. Richard, how is your child doing tonight? Is it your son or daughter?
VOICE OF RICHARD WILFORD, FATHER OF SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY STUDENT: It`s my son.
PINSKY: Son. How is he doing?
WILFORD: Honestly, I think he`s still processing it. There have been some periods today where he`s been, you know, more quiet than he normally is, but just recently, he started to ask more questions in regards to what happened in trying to wrap his mind around it in the way that he processes information.
PINSKY: Right. What are you telling him?
WILFORD: I`m trying to be as concise as possible, just sharing some of the facts that I know, what little I know, being honest and saying I don`t know to things I really don`t know, but reassuring him that this is not a common occurrence and that, honestly, he can -- that this, you know, this is something that`s abnormal.
It`s not going to happen every day. It`s not something you should worry about happening in normal life. This was something that was extraordinarily terrible.
PINSKY: How are you feeling and how are you getting through this?
WILFORD: You know, I`m still processing it. It was, of course, in my story, it wasn`t as tragic as for some other parents that I`m aware of. So --
PINSKY: You sound shaken up, though. You sound shaken up.
WILFORD: I`m shaken up because I`ve been listening to the broadcast and hearing things. To be honest with you, I haven`t been listening to the news.
PINSKY: Well, it`s probably not an unwise thing. I`m a psychologist, Dr. Swanson with me. So, this is a good example of what we need to be helping people with tonight, because proximity to the event obviously makes things more acute, but these same kinds of feelings both on part of the parents and the children are being experienced throughout the country tonight.
SWANSON: -- you`re not there.
PINSKY: That`s correct. So, first of all, parent, what do we do? Do we talk about our feelings and how we insecure we feel and how shaken we are?
SWANSON: This is a time where we want to turn off our mouth and start to use our ears. And let me give you an equation, Richard. If your child is feeling angry, what you want to do is you want to validate that anger. If they`re feeling worried, you want to reassure them that they`re OK, and if they`re feeling sad, you want to give them comfort.
But now is a time for listening and a time for letting your child know that they`re going to be OK.
PINSKY: Yes. That`s -- were you and I talking about columbine? Was that the --
SWANSON: Earlier, yes.
PINSKY: You and I talking were talking about this, and how sometimes trying to -- we have a tendency to want to solve problems to make people feel better in the moment. This is not what that is about --
SWANSON: You`re not going to take this feeling away from your kids. They feel what they feel. They`ve been through a horrible trauma, and by the way, they`re going to start wetting their beds, they`re going to stop eating, they`re not going to sleep well, they`re going to have nightmares, and what`s going to happen when they go to school and find out that their friends who they used to play with aren`t there.
So, this is going to be a long process where you really do need to be in tune with your child, comfort your child, and seek out professional help if you find that things aren`t moving along.
PINSKY: Right, hang on one second, my friend. Angel in Texas, do you have something for us?
ANGEL, TEXAS: I don`t understand how to explain this. (INAUDIBLE) My 19-year-old daughter is asking, you know, how do you kill babies? And I tell her, I don`t know. And, I can`t explain it to her, I can`t explain it to a five-year-old.
PINSKY: Your daughter is five, Angel?
ANGEL: No, my daughter is 19. I can`t imagine how to explain it to second graders.
SWANSON: There`s no way to explain this. There`s absolutely no explanation for this. It`s a tragedy. And the only thing we can do is to seek to comfort each other.
PINSKY: Yes. And again, I really think that we need to -- I wonder if there`s some way we, tonight, can help people feel better. You know, the people that are in positions of authority and in the media need to help people feel better tonight, because by inflaming things, we`re not making things better.
SWANSON: I think that`s been the whole process today, right, understanding it, trying to fix it?
PINSKY: Right. But I think also people need to know that it`s going to -- we`re going to get through this, we`re going to pray (ph) together.
All right. Now, coming up, I`ve got a former Navy SEAL who`s going to give us some perspective of what he thought happened there. I also have super nanny, Joe Frost. She will weigh in on her thoughts on this tragedy, how what -- what she thinks works in terms of talking to our kids and I want your calls. This is where you -- bring your thoughts.
Share here. That`s how we`re going to get better tonight is listen. We`ll keep repeating these stories. We`ll make these narratives (INAUDIBLE). 855-DrDrew5. be right back.
PINSKY: The Connecticut shooting is something that -- it`s like nothing I`ve ever experienced, and I know of no other event in American history that in my mind measures up to the depravity and the disgust that we should all be feeling about this particular incident. Kindergartners cold-bloodedly, systemically.
On Twitter, there was some action from the town of Connecticut where this went down. Shawn with SHW underscore McCarthy 3 was the babysitter of one of these children last summer, and she says in one of her Twitters, "Caroline, you were the cutest and funniest little kindergarten neighbor, a kid could ask for. Hash tag RIP. I will miss you."
That doesn`t a little reality to all this. It`s an obstruction, but this animal, part of his brain that wasn`t functioning which gives us the ability to appreciate that other people exist and to be empathic for things like children and puppies and, in fact, the other humans, that was not working. This animal went, and in cold-blooded fashion, took out 20 children.
Dawn Boldrin is a teacher who witnessed a shooting dead (ph) in her own classroom in Oxnard, California a few years ago. Don, this is hitting very close to home for. Oh my God, I made you cry. I didn`t mean to that.
DAWN BOLDRIN, WITNESSES A SHOOTING IN HER CLASSROOM, 2008: I don`t see how any parent or person can`t be emotionally just wrecked over this. Oh my God. Those poor babies! That`s all you can think of.
PINSKY: In your classroom, you had a student shoot a student, right?
BOLDRIN: I did.
PINSKY: These were teenagers.
BOLDRIN: A completely different in this situation, but --
PINSKY: It`s almost unfair to compare the two, but the reason I brought you in was, "A," to talk about how kids get over these things and how profound the adults are affected long after.
BOLDRIN: I still talk to the children that were in my classroom.
PINSKY: How long ago was that?
PINSKY: No, how long ago were they in the classroom? Are they young adults now?
BOLDRIN: Yes. Most of them just graduated from high school, and today, this has just -- it`s floored them. It`s hard. They`re asking the same questions, how, why?
PINSKY: And Dawn, you told me that you were asking just these same questions two days ago over the Oregon mall shooting.
PINSKY: Can you, having been somebody that has had to live through this? Can you share something that can give insight or reassure people out there who have had to live through this? Frankly, we`re all living through this, so really for everybody.
BOLDRIN: There`s this concept of time and getting over things, and all I know is when I actually was ready to feel the emotions of the shooting, I couldn`t handle it, and that`s when I went to depression and tried to commit suicide and just -- I lost it. But that was, so far, after that people didn`t understand, how is it that this could happen eight months later?
You go into these modes and it`s -- all I can say is there`s so much pain and to say things like, oh, I hope you get over it or I hope --
PINSKY: Or what is a parent feel like in this situation -- words don`t -- yes.
BOLDRIN: -- Just a hug. Nothing seems to truly fix it or will fix it, but -- I don`t know. It`s been four years and I`m starting now to live life and smile again and be happy and enjoy it, and then something like this comes along and it just takes you all the way back.
PINSKY: What do you think we need to do to learn from this, to keep this from happening again?
BOLDRIN: That`s probably my biggest challenge just to me, as a person, is fixing this. This shouldn`t happen. It just shouldn`t happen. When I dropped off my little kindergartner today, going through my mind was, I`m assured she`s happy, I hope she`s safe, and kids should be safe.
That`s what childhood is about is enjoying and loving and having fun. I don`t believe our children today should ever have to experience something like this.
PINSKY: Right. That`s civilization, that`s being civilized, being a country, being a community is about keeping children safe, raising healthy children. I think it starts with our families. We`ve got to work on the health of our families. We`ve got to help those and demand that those with mental health issues get help.
OK. I have to take a break. Hang on. Thank you, Dawn, by the way. I hope you`ll stay with me. You OK?
BOLDRIN: Yes. I`m OK.
PINSKY: All right. I`ve got a former Navy SEAL and somebody`s even tougher, super nanny, Joe Frost. They both will weigh in on their thoughts and your calls. 855-373-7395.
I`m having trouble getting over this Twitter thread. And I`m going to share it with you. It`s the young lady whom I had mentioned before, who would babysit -- let me read you the Twitter. "Still can`t get over the fact, still can`t get over the fact that I babysat and spent more than half my summer with a little girl who was shot today, RIP."
This is what the community is contending with in Connecticut tonight. They`re the most cherished, painfully, painfully and brutally extinguished tonight. I`m going to go to a fourth grade teacher named Tina. She`s in Virginia, and she wants to know what to tell her students on Monday. Is that right?
CALLER: Yes, Dr. Drew. I`m a fourth grade teacher in Virginia, and a big concern is our building style. We have eight pods and three outdoor trailers, and literally you can enter from the classroom door straight to our pod, and my classroom backs up to the woods, and we`re on a big campus. We have four or five playgrounds, and when the children go to the cafeteria to eat, go to art, to music, they have to go outside, and we are outside and inside the building all the time, doors are not locked from the outside.
PINSKY: We get the picture. I think if this had been three days ago and you were calling me, I`d say, well, let`s not get carried away here. In fact, I was in this building in an elevator with one of the security guards after the Oregon shooting, and he looked at me and said, well, we`re in for some copycats, and I went, no, come on. We`re not. Are we really? That`s where we are? So now when you raise this issue, I`m actually concerned. Are you, Dawn? Do you worry for her?
BOLDRIN: Big time. Exactly what she`s saying, because those kids, they`re al scared. They don`t want to go out of their classroom. They`re going to want to eat, and I don`t blame them.
PINSKY: How long were you a teacher?
BOLDRIN: I was a teacher for 10, 12 years.
PINSKY: Did you teach grammar school age?
BOLDRIN: I didn`t teach grammar school. I taught junior high and high school.
PINSKY: What do you think she should tell her students?
BOLDRIN: Well, if I was a teacher still, I would say be very careful what you do tell them, because the administration, and the way parents are, and legal issues, that is a whole issue in and of itself.
But as a parent, as the person who feels, you can`t tell them anything, really, because you don`t know the absolute truth. Tragedy happens, bad comes with good, but you can sit there and listen and do everything you can to make them feel as safe as they can. And one of the things is my students didn`t want to go into a computer lab after they went through this shooting in the computer lab.
PINSKY: They probably shouldn`t have. Were they required to?
BOLDRIN: Yes, they were.
PINSKY: David, I don`t think they should have been required to. That`s a good way to provoke PTSD.
SWANSON: That`s one of the cues. Yes.
SWANSON: And you know, you were hinting at this earlier. You were saying it takes a community. We are a community in mourning. And I don`t think there`s anything you can say to your kids that`s going to make you feel better or your kids feel any better. So I think the message here is to listen, collect information, and actively talk with these kids` parents.
PINSKY: You have to build community, build consensus. Listen, this, I can`t believe we`re having to have these conversations, about, you know, keeping families safe and committing to families, committing to communities and building a cohesive system of communication and agree on how we`re going to watch and secure our environments. I mean, this is -- we have to keep talking about these things.
Aaron, you`re in Kansas. Your son is about to start school, is that right?
CALLER: Yes, dr. Drew. He`s going to be starting school this next year.
PINSKY: He`s like a preschooler?
CALLER: Yes, he is.
PINSKY: Can you imagine? Aaron, can you just imagine that kids his age were victimized today?
CALLER: That`s what`s really scary. I mean, for me being a single father at a young age, I mean, I just can`t believe someone would actually do this, and now it`s like what do I do? I mean, do I let my kid go to school, or do I just, you know, just try to black it out and try to run from it, which I know I can`t do that.
PINSKY: The answer is to do what you can. People should not be withholding their kids from school.
SWANSON: It`s so important to get back into a routine as well, because trauma oftentimes takes us out of routine, and we`re afraid to go school. So there are going to be a lot of parents who are going to have to--
PINSKY: You took your kids to school today.
BOLDRIN: I did, and I left her there, and after I learned about this, I did not run and go grab her out. I didn`t, but I wanted to.
PINSKY: You thought about it.
BOLDRIN: You bet I did.
PINSKY: Oh my goodness. Richard, are you still there? I think Richard--
RICHARD WILFORD, FATHER OF SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY STUDENT: I am. Yes.
PINSKY: Did you want to talk to Dawn? Is that right?
WILFORD: I just wanted to say two things very quickly. One of which is, you know, for this community and certainly for parents, this is not an academic exercise for us. I mean, there`s one child that I`m thinking of right now -- I coached youth football and he played with my son right after we played the game, and I was planning on recruiting him. He was excited about joining football the following year when he would be old enough.
So these are kids that I have talked to and that I know, that I have heard that they were victims to this heinous crime.
But the second thing I wanted to say is very simply, you asked the question, how do we deal with this? How do we get past it? How do we work past it? And my, I guess my response to that is simply, with the same vigor and intentionality that this crime was committed and this heinous act was committed. We should use that same vigor, that same passion and work instead towards loving our families, loving our kids, loving our spouses, creating and connecting with our community, volunteering, making a difference, because --
PINSKY: Yes. I agree.
WILFORD: -- if we do that, I think we then create the connections that might have created a scenario where someone would have caught this person and have a connection with that person to say, what is going on with you? How do you, you know -- can we stop this? Can we talk about this? We can`t undo and we can`t explain and we can`t understand this action. I mean --
PINSKY: Yes. It`s not --
WILFORD: We can talk about it (inaudible), we can`t. But what we can do is love each other right now.
PINSKY: I`ll tell you what, Richard, hold on. I am going to say even more than that. I totally agree with you. And yes, we will not be able to make rational sense of irrational action, but the fact is, David, you will appreciate this -- when we`re working with ill patients, we have a unified, cohesive, properly communicating, effectively a healthy family. That`s what we model to the people, and that`s what we try to have, each of us, try to have a healthy family, and then the community needs to be a healthy family, the state needs to be a healthy family.
We do not need to be divisive and fighting and saying that there are haves and have-nots. And this one is -- this thinking we`re into in this country is making me insane. I felt it in the air for the last three months. I`m not surprised we`re seeing people who are vulnerable acting out because of it. It must stop. It must stop, and it`s incumbent upon our leaders to behave in a healthy manner. There`s something called splitting behavior, David, when you pit one against another. That`s the most primitive and unhealthy of behaviors. Would you agree with me?
SWANSON: Yes. That`s right.
PINSKY: It`s how our government is operating right now. I`m not pointing fingers at anybody. I`m telling everybody they have to stop, and tell everybody, each one of us, to be citizens, and to do exactly what Richard said. Richard, you`re talking about the right stuff, but I`m going to go a little bit further and saying we all need to model healthy families in our home, which by the way aren`t families that break up and leave each other and fight, and in our community and in our state and in our federal government. It is time, it is time. Enough already.
PINSKY: And we have some issue with the mental health community in terms of being able to actually intervene with people that need it, as opposed to be so worried about rights. We`re way too worried about people`s rights because people have a right then to act out and do this kind of stuff. The pendulum has got to swing back the other way.
Rita, thank you for joining us. I`m going to let you go. I know it`s so cold out there. Next up -- thank you, Rita. Super nanny Jo Frost with advice about how to work with children that may be reacting to this tragedy.
PINSKY: Many of you know Jo Frost as super nanny. Jo, you were trying to talk to me during the break here, where I told you to hold until we get going. What`s happening?
JO FROST: I have been listening to you and the conversations that are happening here, and, you know, I just want to commend you really for talking about the situation, listening to people, validating how they`re feeling, but looking at how we`re going to deal with this tonight, tomorrow, over the weekend, Monday, when kids are back at school before they break up for Christmas, you know, and how we deal with this immediately. That`s not taking away the horrific situation that`s happened.
PINSKY: How does it make you feel?
FROST: I was very saddened, yes. Very emotional.
PINSKY: Like sickened even. Would that be the right word?
FROST: Very much. I mean, I heard the news, and as somebody who works with families and has done for 25 years, to hear the situation, to know how parents must be feeling right this minute, and the whole nation, the whole nation with respect to having children and being fearful in a situation like this, like terrorism. You know, it brings the whole nation together in fear, you know, and we`re frozen with that fear of not knowing what tomorrow is going to bring and how do we instinctually protect our children, that we can keep them safe.
PINSKY: What do you think we should be telling our kids tonight? When they ask -- there was an interview on CNN today from a father at the event. With one of his kids, and I thought it was a great interview, and the man was extremely thoughtful, and he said his kids were coming to him and saying, dad, when is this going to happen again? Because they had just been talking about it in relation to the Oregon shooting. When is this going to happen again?
FROST: I heard what he said. I think he was very rational in his response to his son. I think it`s important to recognize that if you have children that are 5, 6 years old, they`re just developing with their reality of what`s happening, and fantasy. They`re just stepping into, you know, literally that world, and I think you have got to be able to validate and answer the questions, but understand that you have to keep it simple, and there have to be appropriate conversation, and the reality is tonight there are going to be children who are not going to want to sleep in their bedrooms tonight. And, yes, I do think there should be four in a bed tonight. I do think as a parent, you know, you should be pacifying your children.
PINSKY: So it`s okay to let young, like under 8-year-old, allow them to come into the bedroom?
PINSKY: David, agree with that?
SWANSON: 15-year-olds, let them sleep there.
FROST: This is a time when parents puffs up their chest, and a child completely gets that reassurance from their parent of feeling safe and protected. So as a parent, if whatever you are saying, if it`s magical, if it`s the hard facts for older children, if it`s to a 5 or 4-year-old because they`re affected by the environment around them, they could have seen a lot of emotion today, and that will create that instability with them not really knowing or understanding. Parents have got to be able to reassure their children in a way of mommy and daddy protect you, nothing will happen to you. You`re going to sleep and we`re taking care of you, so that they really feel safe because we are their guides. We are who they look up to as parents.
PINSKY: We had a call from a teacher who was having difficulty trying to tell -- she was feeling insecure and she was unclear what to tell her students tomorrow.
FROST: And I heard the conversation as well. You know, I believe that there has to be critical staff meetings held so that teachers` hands are not tied with respects to what they tell their children.
PINSKY: Dawn, you brought up a really important point. We sort of glossed over it because it made me choke for a second, is that we live in a litigious world where teachers are second guessed and they have to have everything approved upstream. It`s making you tear up just thinking about that.
BOLDRIN: It kills me because that`s created my whole situation to begin with. You know, the shooting that happened with me was created because of you can`t say this, you can`t do this, we got to follow this rule. And yet there`s a reality in that classroom that as a human being, as a teacher, as a mom, as a parent, you want to help these kids.
PINSKY: You should be able to follow your instincts, and David, again, this translates from the school room over to the mental health area, where we can`t violate anybody`s rights. People`s rights are more valuable than the community`s safety.
SWANSON: If I`m going to go down and take some kind of a legal hit, I`m going to do it for the right reason. It`s very clear, the lack of attachment disrupts well development of the brain. However, attachments really does a lot by way of healing. So, again, that`s why I say I think you have great advice. You bring them into the room tonight, you connect with them. Even if they`re 18, 19 years old, because it`s that attachment that`s going to help us heal.
FROST: But part of being able to heal, you know, it`s the homework that allows them to heal.
PINSKY: I`m going to go on a quick one-second tirade here, and that is about something called interpersonal neurobiology. We affect each other, ladies and gentlemen. Our proximity of bodies and brain, as you say, heal, soothe, make us feel secure, actually build the self, build the emotional landscape.
Stop it with this business of kids will raise themselves or they`re fine because they are playing outside. No, it`s incumbent upon us to attach and stay close and attune.
Steve Perry, you`re a principal. You have school-age children. Can you imagine this? You`re in Connecticut, I believe, in Hartford, right? This is in your backyard. Can you get your head around what happened today?
STEVE PERRY, SCHOOL PRINCIPAL: There`s no way to understand the inexplicable, but I think it`s imperative that we make it very clear, that I make it very clear as a principal, that your children are safe.
65 million children went to school today in just our nation`s public schools. Your child is more likely to suffer a broken heart this evening than they are to suffer at the hands of a very, very bad person.
I want people to understand that your children are safe in our schools. This is not a school safety issue. It`s not even a mental health issue. This is a bad person who did bad things to good kids.
PINSKY: OK. Steve, I tend to agree with you, and again, I want to revisit this thing that David you and I were talking about at the very, very beginning, which is this has got to have been somebody with long- standing kinds of problems. They lose the capacity -- I suspect they`re probably with something happening in the last 48 hours or so that sort of set him off into an agitated state, where he was now acting his aggression, by the way. But before, and before that, I don`t know what, but--
SWANSON: You don`t come up with a vest like that --
PINSKY: Well, that`s a good point. But, Steve, so I agree with you. You don`t usually find me calling things ill and sick and trying to understand. This is in the evil zone for me. This is -- we`re finally there now. We`ve finally got that going, guys, and the behavior is unlike anything that I have seen in my lifetime. I really feel like this country has graduated to a new place today.
One of the things that bothers me is they`re comparing this to other school shootings. Does that strike your ear wrong, Steve, the way it does me? This is --
PERRY: It does. This is not a school shooting. This is a person who shot children in the school, and there`s a very big difference.
In the Columbine setting, these were young men who went to their school to hurt their classmates. In the Virginia Tech, it was the same situation. This is a random act that took place in a place where we hope never to see such acts occur. Your child is more likely to perish in a car accident than to die in their school as a 5-year-old.
PERRY: I have to make it very clear to our country and every single child and parent that you are safe because you are in school.
PINSKY: You are right. Steve, you helped me clarify this. You`re absolutely right. It was a shooting that took place in a place we call a school, but it was sort of executions in the school.
Marsha in Washington, you had something you wanted to say to us?
CALLER: Yes. I was thinking today how this has really put things in perspective. My nephew -- I was fighting with my nephew who is also in kindergarten over -- he wouldn`t put his socks on, and he was making my sister late. And the thought that -- he`s in kindergarten -- kind of brought it back, what if he had been one of those kids? His last memory of auntie would have been fighting over a pair of socks, and it`s like not worth it. You know, give your kids a hug every day when you drop them off. You don`t know if you`ll ever pick them up.
PINSKY: That`s right. You`re the auntie, right, Marsha, you`re the auntie?
PINSKY: Auntie, celebrate his obstinance. Celebrate his youth. Celebrate what it is that makes these little humans so cherished and wonderful and frustrating, that`s why we have a super nanny here. I understand. I raised triplets. But you`re so right, Marsha, that we need to cherish every second that we have. I`m going to say not just with our own children, I`m going to say with any children.
PINSKY: Dawn says yes.
FROST: I mean, we do. We do, but at the same time, we also have to be able to raise them to be well-adjusted adults.
PINSKY: Absolutely. Firm.
FROST: And to lay down the foundation.
PINSKY: Listen, empathic but firm, attached, as David were just saying.
PINSKY: Firm, firm, firm. I have no problem with that.
FROST: I have got a bigger question here with respect to the way families are raising their children. And certainly in my observations, you know, boys have been raised not to be able to express their feelings, they`re supposed to hang tough and not talk about how they`re feeling and upset. I mean, you know, that creates a lot of anger. That gets suppressed. Why is it OK for girls to cry and for girls to be able to talk about how they feel, but boys should, you know, be more resilient and not talk about that? When we look at these circumstances and these young men that have, you know, offended with these terrible crimes, you have got to question that. You have got to question that, the bigger picture here.
PINSKY: We`re going to keep that going, and, again, please with your calls and questions, 855-DR-DREW-5 (ph). We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just told a little boy about his sister now. Just to see how -- "Who am I going to play with," he said. "I have nobody to play with now."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Yes. We have to remember the first responders and the support systems that are absorbing a lot of the trauma from this event. They`ve got to be in our thoughts and prayers as well. And I am just exorcised about this shooting today.
Jason Carroll, CNN national correspondent, in Newtown, Connecticut, right now. I guess there was just the vigil, did it just let out? Is that right, Jason?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It did, not too long ago, Dr. Drew. And it was an incredible scene to be out here and to be a witness to all of this. There were so many people who were packed inside the church, hundreds of people, that there wasn`t enough room for all of those who came out. In fact, there were hundreds of people outside who stood outside in the freezing cold.
This is a community that needed to heal, that needed to come together, and that`s what they did tonight.
I have to just backtrack. Even before we got here, Dr. Drew, as we were heading down here, we went by a Starbucks, past a Starbucks. A woman got out of the car, she was crying. Then there was a restaurant that we passed. We saw the same thing there. I saw a woman along the street here who just looked inconsolable as she was walking down the street. So you really got a sense, even before you got to the scene, of the magnitude of what had happened here, and that`s simply because this community is so close, and you hear that word tight-knit. Well, it really is true here. Because when you come out here to where this vigil was, there were so many people here who knew either some of the children who had been killed or some of the faculty members.
There was a man out here who knew the principal. The deacon here knew so many of the children who had been killed. This was where they had their first communion. One of the little girl was supposed to participate in a Christmas pageant at the church next week. So you can imagine the overwhelming sense of sorrow and grief that is taking place here in this community.
PINSKY: Jason, I know you`re a reporter and you`re not sort of usually asked these kinds of questions, but you`re there absorbing all of this, and I saw you reacting earlier tonight on CNN. Can you tell us how you`re feeling and what you`ve felt here, what you have seen?
CARROLL: I think like most reporters, when -- you try to remain clinical --
PINSKY: No, I`m going to ask you to be, Jason -- I am going to ask you, Jason--
CARROLL: -- convey the information.
PINSKY: No, no. We`ve got the information. I want you to convey the affect that I saw on you today. You were crying today.
CARROLL: Let me finish, let me finish.
CARROLL: I was getting there. I think as any reporter, as I said, when you head out on a very serious story, you at first try to remain clinical because you want to get the information out there, but then there are times, there are certain stories that touch you in such a way, you become a human being, and that`s what it was with something like this. I mean, how can you not be touched when you hear about children? And what makes it more real for a reporter such as myself is when it becomes personal. I didn`t know any of these children. I didn`t know the faculty members, but then when you start hearing about the little girl who saved her money so she could give it to the Hurricane Sandy victims. This was a 6-year-old girl who died, who -- and then when you`re hearing about that little girl. Then you hear about the little girl who was going to be in the Christmas pageant. These people start to become real, and it hurts.
And when you see other people who are hurting so deeply, it`s very -- I just can`t express how difficult it is. But you come out here and you try to do what you can to try to get the information across, but get the emotion across as well.
PINSKY: Do you find yourself consoling people out there? I get this feeling that you almost are becoming part of the story yourself a little bit here, because it`s just so -- you can`t not.
CARROLL: Well, if there is someone who needs a hug, if there is someone who needs some sort of sense of support or if someone needs privacy, you give what you can, and that`s what you do in situations like this. I have seen it in other situations. Sometimes, as you know, Dr. Drew, when we`re out here, we want to get the information, but people need their space, and you give them their space.
PINSKY: Of course.
CARROLL: Because that`s the respectful thing to do. But if someone comes up and they want to talk, and you see that they`re crying, if it means you throw your arms around them, you do that too.
PINSKY: Before I let you go, Jason, tell me about the clergy you talked to today. He seemed like a very profoundly caring man, like he was very connected with this community and was very affected by this.
CARROLL: He`s the deacon here at the church, and he told a very -- it was difficult to hear him, because he himself, he became choked up because he said, it`s so difficult for me when I realize that some of those children who were killed were the children who were here not too long ago for their first communion. You know, I would look in their faces during Sunday mass, and now those children are gone.
And he was the one, in fact, Dr. Drew, who told me the story about the little girl who had really left an impression upon him, the 6-year-old girl who had saved her money so she could -- saved her allowance, saved her money so she could give it to the victims of Hurricane Sandy, and now she`s gone. And I think for those who are sitting at home and who are watching now, if our words don`t affect them, I think what will happen is tomorrow when they start hearing the names and they start seeing the pictures of these children, I think those who aren`t moved now will certainly be moved then.
PINSKY: I absolutely agree. Thank you, Jason, for being there and for being so rich and honest in the reporting. Please get us more from that deacon. I -- because this is the time when a spiritual connection can help us all, and he seems like someone who has got something to say. So please keep us informed, OK?
CARROLL: You bet.
PINSKY: OK. Next, more conversation, more calls, be right back.
PINSKY: Later we`ll be speaking to a Columbine survivor, getting his thoughts.
Right now, I`m going to Denver, Cade Courtly, a former Navy SEAL, author of the "SEALs Survivor Guide." Cade, I never thought I would be speaking to you so frequently. This, though, is an other category altogether, wouldn`t you agree?
CADE COURTLEY, FORMER NAVY SEAL: We have just crossed a line that was never supposed to be crossed. You know, it`s just tough. It really is. I have spent time and seen things and I was trained for that, and you knew that because that was part of the job. But for the first responders that had to walk in that room today, you know, get all the help you can. I can`t imagine -- human beings are not supposed to have to see that.
PINSKY: That`s right. You can`t see it and be OK. It`s going to affect you no matter what.
Cade, last time I was speaking to you, we were talking about the Oregon shooter, and we were talking about him, a caller was saying -- being critical with us for saying he was a bad guy or something? Do you remember this conversation? And you --
COURTLEY: Oh, yes.
PINSKY: (inaudible) appropriately, excuse me, this guy just shot people. This is somebody behaving badly. But in this case, I am with -- this is a bad guy that did this. This is in the realm of when people talk about evil, that`s what we`re into here.
COURTLEY: You know, you`re not supposed to make generalizations, but this generation, these 20-somethings right now -- OK, everybody goes through life and they have problems and they get upset. This generation doesn`t realize that you can`t act on that. They haven`t been raised in a way -- and again it`s a generalization, but they haven`t been raised in a way where, wait, there are circumstances for something you do. There is accountability, which most of these 20-somethings could not define to me. They don`t realize that there`s a certain responsibility, and it`s -- and so it`s I`m mad and I`m going to go kill people? Unacceptable.
PINSKY: Jo, you were just bringing this up, were you not, something similar?
FROST: Just the reality of making sure that, you know, as a family, you know, you`re raising your kids to be able to, you know, talk and express how they`re feeling so that young men have the opportunity to do that and are not being raised with, you know, the fact they have to suppress and not -- and hang tough, and, you know, not say how they feel. And the reality of raising children and understanding that their actions have an impact on everybody else around them, and that they are aware of what those impacts are so we are creating empathy, we are establishing empathy, we are building that, we are teaching that.
PINSKY: Empathy comes not through intellectual process, but back to my interpersonal neurobiology, attachment, Dr. Swanson, being close and available to our kids over long periods of time. Dr. Swanson, do you think people should stay home, speaking of attachment, stay home and just attune to their kids for a few days at least?
SWANSON: This is definitely --
PINSKY: Not necessarily the whole country, but at least certainly in Connecticut.
SWANSON: It`s a very good idea. And by the way, for all of us across the country with kids, a piece of our heart was ripped out today, and your kids are scared, too. So be present with them. And let me tell you something, this is another thing to be concerned about. Attachment is everything, attachment is everything.
And here is the deal. What you can expect to see from some of these kids is behavior problems. They`re going to start to act out, they`re going to be angry. Sadness--
SWANSON: -- is the primary emotion. Anger is a secondary emotion.
SWANSON: So what does this do? This pushes parents away. This makes parents frustrated, which disrupts the attachment, so you got to be understanding.
FROST: And then you back off instead of coming closer. We`re going to see anxiety.
SWANSON: Give them a break over the next couple of days.
PINSKY: Stay present. Stay with, hang in.
FROST: We got the separation anxiety. You know, you`ve got to remain present and with them.
SWANSON: And give them a break if they act out, because that`s to be expected right now. This behavior --
PINSKY: This is very important information, guys. People at home with kids, listen to this information. Maureen in Puerto Rico, do you have something for us? Maureen?
CALLER: Can you hear me?
PINSKY: I do. What`s going on, Maureen?
CALLER: OK. I`m calling because my grandson asked me a question that I didn`t know how to answer and I was wonder if maybe I could get some input from you.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
CALLER: He asked (ph) me, what could he do to keep himself safe in a situation like that?
PINSKY: OK. Cade, I am going to ask you. This may be a silly question. We`ve talked about how to keep adults safe. Is there something we need to teach kids as well?
COURTLEY: You know, absolutely. And this is totally up to the parents. You go ahead, and the first thing you do is you really emphasize to these kids, hey, if you see something that looks strange, tell mommy, tell daddy, tell your teacher. Kids are amazingly observant, and they might pick up on half the stuff that some of us will not.
And then you need to go ahead and tell them how to react if they hear gunshots. Now, you need to do it in a way that`s not going to scare them. Try and make it a game. If you hear boom, boom, boom, you need to get down, you need to move, don`t punch up. I mean, schools are having to do this now just like fire drills.
COURTLEY: And if they can do it in a way so it`s almost a challenge. Hey, we`re going to see if we can get out in a minute and 30 seconds, instead of a minute and 45 like last time.
SWANSON: I`m sorry, I`ve got to jump in.
PINSKY: Guys, I`ve got to take a break. I unfortunately have to go. We`re going to talk to a Columbine survivor, stay with us. More calls after this.
PINSKY: OK. Before I go to Sam Granillo, the Columbine survivor, I want to talk to you guys. David and Jo, you had a different sort of point of view about that last call? A grandmother calling, 7-year-old says how do I stay safe?
SWANSON: It`s completely upsetting to me -- what we witnessed today was the most evil of human acts being acted out on the most innocent of human beings.
SWANSON: And to think you would have to tell a 5-year-old how to keep themselves safe, that is completely a horrible thing --
PINSKY: It`s upside down. The world is upside down.
FROST: It is. The child should be reassured by the parent, by teachers, by the community. A child shouldn`t have to feel they have to defend themselves in this big, wide world and deal with this horrific situation. No way. It`s unacceptable.
PINSKY: I will just say it again. The very foundation of civilization is big people taking care of little people and successfully getting them into adulthood and productive adulthood.
Sam Granillo, survivor of the Columbine shooting. He joins us via Skype from Colorado. All right, my friend. Can you give us any perspective on what we`re going through today?
SAM GRANILLO, COLUMBINE SURVIVOR: Absolutely. I mean, it`s really confusing, of course. I`m 13 years out of it and it`s still really confusing for me. I`m more numb today than pretty much ever before, so, you know, right now they have to take it minute by minute and really just be there for each other.
But as far as, you know, preparing for these kinds of things, it`s crazy. You know, that`s the same kind of thing as people saying, oh, in this situation I would act like this or I would act like that. You never know what your survival instincts are going to be like when these sort of things happen. So you can teach your children how to react, but, you know, you never really know what they`re going to do. They`re going to do what they`re going to do no matter what.
PINSKY: You`re right, and, Dawn, I see you shaking your head vigorously. You are the only one that`s really been in these sorts of situation. It`s interesting to me he`s experienced numbing. I experienced that throughout the day today, and I didn`t go through this sort of thing.
BOLDRIN: But you do it so you can cope. Because not everybody wants to deal with this. Yes --
PINSKY: Well, your body won`t let you. Your body just won`t allow it at a certain point.
BOLDRIN: That`s how you survive--
GRANILLO: You can`t live in fear the whole time either.
FROST: The repetition of the drills creates a predictable behavior in a circumstance like today, when there was the emergency bells were going and automatic pilot switched on, and, you know, you got to salute the teachers for--
BOLDRIN: In my classroom, when that happened, I don`t remember what was going on exactly as it was going on, but I know those kids listened to me. Whatever I told them, they were up and moving out that door. So they have it in them.
SWANSON: I have got to add to this, too, because if you`re at home telling your child how you should respond to this, you`re doing it for you. You aren`t doing it for your child. This is to make you feel better. The time right now, what you should be spent talking to your kids and understanding where they were.
Fire drills are done calm and uniformly. This is a tragedy. It happens so infrequently. It`s not time to be giving advice on what you should be doing.
PINSKY: Quickly, I`ll go to Erica in North Carolina. Erica. Erica in North Carolina, are you there?
CALLER: Yes, I`m here.
PINSKY: Go right ahead.
CALLER: My question is mainly -- I mean, we`re in a military -- in a military town. And so my daughter goes to school with military kids. I know she`s going to hear about this on Monday. She`s only 4, and she`s sensitive, and I don`t know if I should sit down with her over the weekend and approach her about this and talk to her about it, because I`m still emotional --
PINSKY: Hold on, Steve is having a rather aggressive response. Steve, go ahead. You`re shaking your head vigorously no.
PERRY: One of the biggest things that we`re doing wrong is we keep introducing adult concepts to children. We don`t even understand what`s going on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
PERRY: At some point, we have to recognize that we`re having conversations for our own self-interest.
Turn the television off for so many children. Let them watch cartoons, man. Let them be kids. This is stuff that we don`t understand, and so what I say to all these people who are saying so what should I say to my children, one of the first things you can say is bad people sometimes do bad things, but you`re a good kid and great things are going to happen to you.
Build them up. Remind them that they`re children. If you have a basketball game tomorrow for your children, go, be a part of that life. If you can`t go, the child can`t go, then that`s OK, don`t push them, but allow them to live.
One of the things I`m more interested in also is talking about the mood among these teachers, not just the teachers at that school, but educators all over the country. Today we are all Newtown teachers, we are all Newtown principals, we are all Newtown parents. We have to understand empathy to them, but that`s an adult conversation.
We need to do the adult stuff for the adults, and the children stuff for the children. Keep it big concepts for the children, almost cartoonish for the children. And get them moving.
PINSKY: Steve, thank you. Again, really clarifying things very nicely tonight. I could not agree with you more strongly.
I heard words tonight from some parents with young children like processing and talking. Those are not words that -- you don`t process with a 5-year-old. You stay present, you attune your body to them.
GRANILLO: One of the most traumatic parts of these whole events is the media frenzy that comes in. That was one of the most traumatic parts of it for me, was just the media bombardment. So, you know, that`s one of the things that we have to protect the kids from right now.
FROST: The repetition of it.
PINSKY: Fair enough. Don`t want to revivify or revisit it.
FROST: Yes, absolutely.
PINSKY: I like Steve`s idea of keep it sort of on a cartoon level. Back after this.
PINSKY: A big thank you to all of my guests tonight. It`s been a very important conversation. Again, we`ve crossed into something I never expected this country to go to, but here we are.
Dawn, I learned something from you tonight, and that`s about how much this reverberates through communities and lives long after. Do you want to articulate that again?
BOLDRIN: This is just something that`s going to be with these people, whether they were there, whether they were affected in it, live in that community, and it`s going to be -- it`s forever. This isn`t something that just goes away and we can -- you have to be kind to these people and don`t say, you know, I`m kind of over feeling this for that now, let`s not talk about it. It doesn`t happen for us. When we`ve been in it, it`s part of us. So when you say I don`t want to deal with that, I don`t want to talk about it, it`s like telling me go away, I don`t want to see you, I don`t want to deal with you anymore.
PINSKY: And, Jo and David, one thing we have not talked about, 30 seconds, but sort of the spiritual solutions, looking to clergy, looking to faith, looking to church. That can be very important at times like this.
FROST: Absolutely, especially, you know, with the tragedy that`s happened. You know, it`s time and connection.
PINSKY: That`s another connection, which is attachment, again, even if it`s to your clergy or your church or your community.
SWANSON: Exactly. And what I would say tonight is that we need to have our hearts with those people in Connecticut, but our time needs to be spent with our family.
FROST: With our families.
PINSKY: Very good. Got to take yet another break. Be right back.
PINSKY: Well, thank you for joining me this evening. I could not be more sorry that we had to have the show we had this evening. We`ve crossed into a place as a country that we have to come back from. It`s a place I never thought we would go. We`ll be back, I`ll be back on this program tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. for another special edition of "Dr. Drew on Call." We`re going to be talking about the rights of the community and community safety versus the rights of the individual. We`ve got to take care of these problems.
Thank you for watching. And our thoughts are with the people of Connecticut. Nancy Grace, I believe, is up now. END