Return to Transcripts main page
Day Two of Jodi Arias Murder Trial
Aired January 3, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RITA COSBY, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight out of Arizona, day two of the most anticipated trial since tot mom, Casey Anthony. She`s beautiful and charming, but is Jodi Arias a killer? The singing beauty accused of murdering her ex-boyfriend, successful entrepreneur Travis Alexander, by stabbing him not once, not twice but 29 times, then allegedly shooting him in the face.
Arias first claimed she wasn`t there, then reveals her and Travis were attacked by intruders. Now her story is she killed Travis in self-defense. With 29 stab wounds? New tonight, fresh from the courtroom, Jodi Arias caught on tape, her own words used against her by police. We have the audio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: We were intimate, but I wouldn`t say romantic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: References to being used sexually by Ms. Arias. "I think I was little more than a dildo with a heartbeat to you."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) in his bedroom, behind the door.
ARIAS: Hello. I just wanted to offer any assistance (INAUDIBLE) I`m a really good friend of Travis`s.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Shot, stabbed 29 times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was an angry situation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first thing we think is these people hated each other.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember seeing e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Ms. Arias as a slut?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a whore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ARIAS: He gave me his passwords. The only accounts that I`ve accessed there were Myspace and Gmail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The prosecution said this was so violent.
ARIAS: He worked out really, really hard. He was so strong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The defense saying this was self-defense.
ARIAS: I don`t see how anyone could overpower him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had sex with him to put him into a powerless state, and then she went in for the kill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you managing to stay so calm?
ARIAS: Through my faith and through the knowledge of my own innocence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And good evening, everybody. I`m Rita Cosby, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for being with us tonight.
Big breaking news tonight out of Arizona, day two of the most anticipated trial since tot mom, Casey Anthony. She`s beautiful and charming, but is Jodi Arias a killer?
New tonight, fresh from the courtroom, Jodi Arias caught on tape, her own words used against her by police. And we have the audio. Let`s go straight to Beth Karas with "In Session," the reporter. She is right there in the thick of it all. Beth, what happened today?
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, after that phone conversation was played -- and that`s Jodi Arias reaching out to the lead detective the day after Travis Alexander`s body is found, offering information, offering help, asking questions -- then the jury heard and saw rather a lot of photographs, which culminated at the end of the day with some very gruesome photos...
COSBY: Yes. And by the way, Beth...
KARAS: ... the whole scene...
COSBY: ... I think it`s important...
COSBY: Beth, I think it`s important to let everybody know the photos are graphic, and also, some of the language you`re going to hear tonight is graphic. Be very careful with your children. But again this is what was played in court today.
Beth, some stunning details verbally in those e-mails and also pictures, right, Beth?
KARAS: Yes, and the pictures really tell a story. They show that there was a struggle, a fight by Travis Alexander. He was fighting for his life. The prosecution says he was stabbed in the heart and then hung his head over the sink. And you can see he was probably spitting blood. It was a terrible scene.
The worst, though, is to come next week, where the jury will see the area where the state says his throat was slashed, and then he was dragged to the shower, shot and left.
COSBY: And Liz, I want to warn folks because there are some graphic pictures. In fact, there are some pictures of blood at the sink where they believe his throat was slit.
Let`s go to Bonnie Druker, NANCY GRACE producer. This picture is significant, some of these photos, and it really does shows a very bloody, brutal scene, right, Bonnie?
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, it is so bloody and so brutal, I mean, members of Travis Alexander`s family, everyone was crying. They were taking tissues, and some of the people I was sitting next to had to turn their head. I even had to turn my head at some point.
It shows a real, real struggle, a lot of blood at the sink, on the floor, on the walls. And it`s just a tremendously violent, violent scene.
COSBY: And Bonnie, we`re looking at pictures right now. I mean it stuns to see the amount of blood at the sink, again, where they believe the fatal blow was that slit his throat from ear to rear, right, Bonnie? I mean, this was a dramatic wound.
DRUKER: Oh, yes, from ear to ear. I mean, she`s accused -- Jodi Arias is accused of stabbing him 29 times and then slitting his throat from ear to ear -- that`s a lot, a lot of blood -- and then shot him in the face, allegedly.
COSBY: And you know, I`ve seen some of the pictures, everyone, that we cannot show on camera. And there`s some really dramatic gruesome pictures showing a very beat-up, very bruised Travis Alexander, a lot of blood at the scene. Again, we`re not even going to show you those. The ones we`re showing you, I think, are graphic and give the idea of how difficult and horrible this crime scene was.
Beth Karas, what was the reaction from jurors, the reaction from others in the courtroom to see these kind of pictures?
KARAS: Well, let me start with Jodi Arias. She was crying a lot. I mean, tears were streaming down he face, down to her chin and she was...
COSBY: Beth, crocodile tears?
KARAS: ... wiping her eyes and her nose...
COSBY: Did they look genuine?
KARAS: ... constantly.
COSBY: Genuine tears?
KARAS: I don`t know. I mean, yes, she turns it on. They look genuine. I mean, maybe she`s saying to herself, How did I get myself in this position? Maybe she`s sorry she killed him.
It`s not in dispute that she killed him. The question is, should she be held criminally responsible, right? She says she was justified in doing it, but she killed him. She did this. That`s not in dispute.
But jurors- at times -- see, some jurors looked at the big screen directly across from them, some looked at a smaller screen above the witness, which was a little more -- showed a little more sharper detail.
But jurors who looked at the big screen across from them, like a big movie screen, had Jodi Arias in their line of sight. So I can`t believe they weren`t looking at her also, crying and turning her head. So they would avert their eyes from the picture to her at times.
They`re allowed to take notes. The witness hasn`t finished, so we don`t know if they have any questions for this witness all the photographs are coming in through.
But it was very somber in the courtroom. Earlier in the day, there was nothing gruesome. It was interesting facts, but nothing gruesome. But the day ended, the weekend, with some pretty powerful stuff, and the jury went home with (INAUDIBLE)
COSBY: You bet. You bet. C.W. Jensen, retired police captain, you`ve covered a lot of cases. This is a pretty gruesome crime scene. That`s going to have a big effect, seeing these pictures.
And again, I want to warn everybody, but I want to show you some of -- and again, these are sort of the lesser graphic ones, if you can imagine. I have seen some ones that we cannot show you on air, but very brutal, very bloody crime scene.
This is going to affect the jury, don`t you think, C.W.?
C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED POLICE CAPTAIN (via telephone): Oh, absolutely. I mean, many times, especially nowadays, you know, a judge will send jurors after a case to counseling. I mean, I`ve had them cry in my arms during trial.
So this is very graphic. Also, though, what`s going to really hit them is how she lied and tried to manipulate the police.
COSBY: Yes, and apparently, she lied big-time. Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter with Radaronline, she was lying through her teeth! They also played today some recordings. And this is with the detective she apparently reached out to him, said friends suggested she call because they believed she was stalking him. It wasn`t like she just kind of out of the goodness of her heart decided to call.
But she calls, and in the conversation, she totally lies to him, Alexis! She says, Look, I didn`t see him. I hadn`t seen him in a long time. Last conversation I had with him was the night before he was killed. Doesn`t say she was with him, right?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: You`re exactly right. And she says she was supposed to be house sitting while he went away to Cancun. She tells the detective all sorts of past history, and she says, you know, his tires were slashed. Maybe somebody -- that -- the person that did this murdered him. She was the one that slashed his tires.
She also claimed that they had -- they were broken up. They weren`t together. And then she said, But we were intimate, but please don`t tell anybody that because he`s a Mormon and she wants to protect his reputation. Everything she said to him was a lie.
But she was constantly fishing for information. She said, Well, what kind of weapon was used? And...
COSBY: Yes, she asked, was there a gun? Was there a gun? I thought that was really significant, Alexis.
TERESZCUK: You`re exactly right. She wanted to know details that somebody else wouldn`t have known. She said, Was there a gun? They hadn`t said that he was shot yet. What happened? And she said, you know, he was very strong. She couldn`t imagine how this could have happened. And then she said, The only weapons that I know that were in the room were his two fists, implying that maybe that was setting up her alibi or her excuse, that he was going to be able to hit somebody.
COSBY: You know, Alexis...
TERESZCUK: That was her defense.
COSBY: I think that`s exactly what she was doing. She was sort of laying the groundwork. Let`s play a little bit, if we could. This is this comment where she`s talking to the detective right away and said somebody slashed the tires. But get this. All the friends said he believed she slashed the tires. This was several months before.
But take a listen to how she framed it with the detective early on.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he have any issues with anybody here in town, any enemies, anybody that wanted to do him harm?
ARIAS: He got his tires slashed. It was last year. He was -- he said he was worried about that. And I was worried about that. He never locked his doors. And I told him -- I would tell him, Lock your doors. And he`ll be, like, You`re not my mom, you know?
And I come from -- he comes from a bad city. I think he comes from (INAUDIBLE) in California, which is gangs, violent, but -- and I come from a similar type of neighborhood (INAUDIBLE) California. So I`ve always (INAUDIBLE) lock our doors, and that`s just my habit. He doesn`t have that habit, and he lives in a great neighborhood and it`s never been an issue. Nothing`s ever been stolen. Nothing has ever been -- nothing has ever been, you know, broken into. And he had his tires slashed. I don`t remember when it was. It was last year sometime around Christmas, I think.
COSBY: Psychologist Wendy Walsh, you hear that, she`s saying someone slashed the tires. The friends say he thought she slashed the tires because she was jealous of him and he was dating other people.
What do you make of it from a psychological standpoint? She`s sort of laying the groundwork. So that way, I -- you know, I take it that cops hearing it go, Well, maybe they`ll eliminate me if I kind of lay it all out here. What do you think that she`s going for, kind of fishing but also kind of presenting it now?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s exactly what she`s doing. Now, remember, I`m pretty sure, I would guess, that this woman has a personality disorder...
COSBY: Ya think?
WALSH: ... and my suspicion is it`s a borderline...
COSBY: Ya think?
WALSH: ... personality disorder.
COSBY: I`ll agree with you on that one!
WALSH: But remember, just because -- just because you have a personality disorder doesn`t mean you have, like, a mental illness. You can be very smart and you can weave all kinds of tangled webs of lies. In fact, borderlines are particularly good at this. So she`s...
COSBY: Well, Wendy, I got to ask you -- cunning -- cunning like a fox, right? Cunning like a fox.
WALSH: Exactly. And so she`s both fishing for information because she wants to know what they have and do they have anything on her, but she`s also laying down little, tiny red herring clues to potentially be a defense in the future.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember seeing e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Ms. Arias as a, quote, "three-hole wonder"?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A slut?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A whore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
ARIAS: Travis -- when he got upset, he would send me really mean e-mails.
911 OPERATOR: What`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you kill Travis Alexander?
ARIAS: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he have any issues with anybody in town, anybody that wanted to do him harm.
ARIAS: You know, he got his tires slashed. It was last year.
911 OPERATOR: Has he been threatened by anyone recently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he has. He has as ex-girlfriend that`s been bothering him, calling him and slashing tires and things like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And It`s day two of the Jodi Arias murder trial. She`s beautiful, but she also is a killer, the defense saying self-defense, but yet he was stabbed 29 times.
Today in court, some very graphic e-mails. I also want to warn everybody some graphic language coming up. Indeed, this was the evidence presented in court today.
Let`s go to Beth Karas. Beth, some of these phrases -- I want to go through it -- you know, what, he called her a slut and, what, a "three-hole wonder"? Walk us through some of the language in the e-mails between Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander.
KARAS: Well, I do expect that we`re going to see a lot more of these e- mails and text messages. But through Detective Flores (ph), the lead detective, the case agent, on cross-examination, Mr. Nurmi (ph), one of the defense attorneys, asked him about, Isn`t it true, when you saw the exchanges, that he had called her a "three-hole wonder" and called her a slut and a whore. And he said, Yes, that`s true.
And so Juan Martinez got up on redirect -- and he`s the prosecutor -- and he wanted the context for this. And there was an objection and a sidebar. And it was -- you know, he was allowed to read a little bit more.
You know, the defense is trying to portray Travis Alexander as someone who was simply using her for sex and knew he would never marry her and was abusive emotionally toward her, psychologically abusive.
And they, in fact, intend to introduce an expert on abuse, domestic abuse, to talk about Jodi Arias and if she was truly a victim, and Travis Alexander, if he was truly an abuser. So I mean, they`re going to have some evidence, I believe, that they think will support justification.
COSBY: Yes, and one of the things, you know, Bonnie Druker, NANCY GRACE producer, the context that the prosecutors were going for was that he was saying she was always a liar and that some of the context of saying some of these things I understand was the context that he was mad she was lying, you know, that using this language, not necessarily always calling her that, but because he was mad she was lying constantly, correct?
DRUKER: Yes, I mean, there seemed to be a distrust or mistrust between both of them. I mean, at one point, Travis Alexander writes to Jodi Arias that, I`m nothing more to you than a dildo with a heartbeat. So I mean...
COSBY: Walk me through. What is this, a dildo with a heartbeat, that`s the phrase?
DRUKER: Yes, that is the phrase, a dildo with heartbeat. So it really, you know, depends on which side you believe here. But again, there was some distrust between both of them.
At one point in the trial today, they were talking about e-mails and Facebook accounts, and Jodi Arias said that they gave each other each other`s passwords because they wanted to kind of mend fences because there was so much distrust. It`s like, OK, here`s my passwords. Now look at what I`m doing. There`s nothing here or there`s something here.
COSBY: You know, let`s got to the attorneys, Holly Hughes, Alex Sanchez. Holly, you know, when I hear this, it`s sort of, like, let`s blame the victim. Let`s make him look like a pervert. Let`s make him look like a sex fiend, and she was, you know, this poor girl who happened to drive hundreds of miles to go see him, goes into his house and kills him. It`s not like he went to her house to kill her.
HOLLY HUGHES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right, but it`s not so much blame the victim as it is...
COSBY: How is it not...
HUGHES: ... explain to the jury.
COSBY: How is it not -- how is it not...
COSBY: ... blaming the victim? He`s not around to defend himself!
HUGHES: Rita! Rita, here`s the thing. They`re using his own words. They`re not just willy-nilly having her make up stuff.
COSBY: But it has to be in the context!
HUGHES: They are using his -- right, and that`s fine. Put the context in. But clearly, what they need to show the jury as the defense team is that he did have a cruel streak. And so when she is claiming self-defense, there is evidence to support that.
They would be inexcusable as attorneys if they didn`t go through every piece of the evidence and present what will back up their claim, and their claim is this is self-defense. He was cruel. He was emotionally abusive. And on this day, he got physically abusive. They are not...
COSBY: All right, but the one thing they don`t have, Holly -- one thing they don`t have. So far, we haven`t heard of any reports of him assaulting her, any calls of him offending her, any reports from the police. What are you saying, he suddenly snapped?
Meanwhile, she drove to his house? Alex, they got a tough case here!
HUGHES: OK, but here`s the thing...
COSBY: Alex -- I`m talking to Alex!
COSBY: Hang on one second. I asked Alex. Alex, go ahead.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Rita, you know, let`s call a spade a spade.
COSBY: Yes, let`s!
SANCHEZ: And maybe I`m old-fashioned, but...
COSBY: What are you going to...
SANCHEZ: ... any man...
COSBY: You`re probably going to tell me it`s a tough case!
SANCHEZ: No, any man that calls a woman a slut, a whore and a three-hole wonder is absolutely disgusting.
COSBY: And by the way...
SANCHEZ: And I don`t care what anybody says about that.
COSBY: And by the way, Alex -- Alex, I agree with you. That is no way...
SANCHEZ: That`s right, but...
COSBY: ... to speak to someone...
SANCHEZ: ... it tells you -- it tells you something...
COSBY: ... on the other hand...
SANCHEZ: It tells you...
COSBY: ... it tells you...
SANCHEZ: Excuse me, Rita, but it tells you...
COSBY: Excuse me, Alex! It tells you you got a volatile relationship, but it doesn`t make it sound like she`s some saint!
SANCHEZ: Yes, but you know something? It tells you something about him. And this business about her being forced to wear a French outfit, her being forced to wear a shirt that says, you know, This is Travis Alexander`s...
COSBY: Alex, I just got to ask you a question, Alex. Was she forced to drive and go over to kill him?
SANCHEZ: You know something? Every...
COSBY: Was she forced to drive?
COSBY: You know, that`s -- that`s -- this is the biggest problem! She took off to visit him! She lied to police, Alex! If she was defending herself, she should have called police...
SANCHEZ: Yes, but you know, everybody...
COSBY: ... and said, Guess what happened?
COSBY: I accidentally killed someone.
SANCHEZ: Everybody, including you, Rita...
COSBY: ... forgot that, Alex, somehow!
SANCHEZ: Everybody, including you, are deviating from the main issue in the case. Was there self-defense in the case? What happened in that bathroom in that house?
COSBY: Let`s see it!
SANCHEZ: That`s what I`m interested.
COSBY: Let`s see it!
SANCHEZ: You`re looking at all the information that is occurring afterwards!
COSBY: Let`s see it, Alex! Let`s see it!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. Could I speak to Jodi, please.
ARIAS: This is Jodi.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I received a phone call stating that a female by the name of Jodi Arias wanted to talk to me.
ARIAS: Well, I heard all kinds of rumors. They said there was a lot of blood. I heard that his roommates found him or his friends found him or...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body was found in the shower.
ARIAS: I really don`t remember the day at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I want to go now to Danny Jones. He`s the friend of the victim, Travis Alexander. And I want to remind everybody, Travis Alexander is the victim, and now he`s being victimized again, it sounds like, all over in court!
Danny, how hard was it for you to sit there in court and hear these words? You know, he`s calling her a three-hole wonder, all these things. They`re in the e-mails, but again, they need to be in context. It sounds like they`re going after him like he`s on trial!
DANNY JONES, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, that`s exactly what they were doing. You know, I mean, I don`t really understand your question, How do I feel about hearing those words? I mean...
COSBY: Yes, and how do you -- how do you...
JONES: I don`t know. I mean, how would you feel if somebody...
COSBY: I was going to say, how do you -- you know, as a friend, to sit there and feel like here your poor friend has been murdered, and now his reputation is being dragged through the mud!
JONES: Well, see, I think that`s the big problem here, especially, you know, in the media. Like, this isn`t a trial about, you know, how good of a Mormon he was or how well he lived up to his religion or what his sexual fantasies were.
You know, I think one thing we have to all remember here is this is a human being and he`s not perfect. I`m not perfect. You`re not perfect. Nobody is, I don`t care what religion you are. And you know, it looks like that during that season of his life, you know, temptation got the better of him on some of the other things.
But you know, I think we all need to remember the main thing of this whole trial is these three things, is did she murder him? Well, obviously. Was it premeditated? Yes. And was there self-defense -- was it because of self-defense?
There`s no way in hell it was because -- and here`s why, because why would she -- why would she dye her hair color? Why would she rent the car, turned her license plate upside down, pull the battery out of her phone, accidentally get lost and show up in Arizona, you know, stage the scene after she kills him. I mean, it`s absolutely ridiculous.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I came over and I cleaned his house a lot. He sort of -- he paid me a little every month to keep his house nice and clean, sort of like a housekeeper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember seeing an e-mail from Mr. Alexander to Ms. Arias where he provides her a picture of the French maid outfit that he would like her to don when she cleans his apartment -- or his home, excuse me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That doesn`t sound familiar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t remember that.
ARIAS: As far as getting into his Gmail, that never happened. If his Gmail window was open, then I would just close it.
He gave me his password. The only accounts I`ve accessed, though, were Myspace and Gmail because those were the only passwords he gave me.
Travis, when he got upset, he would send me really mean e-mails.
You`ll find probably some stuff on his Facebook. I know for sure you`ll find one on Facebook and definitely his Gmail. And you`re welcome to access all of my accounts, too, if you want.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And day two of the Jodi Arias murder trial.
Let`s go back out to Beth Karas.
Beth, you`re out there. You`ve been in trial all day. One of the things I want to have you talk about, some of the things that she said, what I thought was so fascinating about today was that the detective got there, and he talked about the conversations he had with her early on. And it seems like she was sort of setting the stage. You know, she talks about the gun, she brings it up. And he -- you know, she says no, he didn`t have a gun but coincidentally she had a gun stolen from her house the same kind.
And also she said he used his fists, kind of trying to describe him, I think, as a bit of a violent person, right?
KARAS: Yes, you know, it`s interesting. She did. She said the only weapons he had were his fists. And then there was a punching bag in his home. Jurors saw pictures of it. It was on the -- on the first floor off of the living room. And he -- he worked out a lot and he was getting in shape. He was ready for his trip to Cancun. He had been losing weight and was looking forward to it.
But what I was thinking when I was listening to her, I mean, she didn`t allege and assert self-defense right away. That`s her -- that`s her third story about what happened that day.
COSBY: Beth, Beth, she didn`t even say she talked to him.
KARAS: Only in the past year. No, but it`s interesting because some of the things in that initial statement, June 10th, 2008, the day after Travis Alexander`s body was found, seems to support and can be used in this self- defense claim now, but that`s not what she was saying back then. What -- and I guess what it means is, there`s a ring of truth to some of what she was saying. You know, not everything she said was a lie.
COSBY: Danny Jones, you`re the friend of Travis Alexander. When did you meet Travis?
JONES: I met Travis sometime in 2004.
COSBY: And so you met him before Jodi met him, Jodi met him at that Las Vegas convention in 2006. Did you ever meet her?
COSBY: And what were your impressions of her?
JONES: I did meet her a couple of times. The only time that I really saw her and Travis together was, you know, at business functions and a meeting with, you know, 200 other people. And quite frankly, I had my own things to worry about. I was working and I had my own girlfriend and it wasn`t really something I was paying attention to.
COSBY: You know, you knew Travis and you`re hearing these allegations, sort of painting these twos different pictures of him, if you will, in court. Did you ever see anything where he had a violent streak or an angry streak? It sounds like as the defense is trying to lay the claim for self- defense?
JONES: Absolutely not. You know, I know Travis on, you know, more of a personal level sometimes. You know, we met and he was a mentor of mine in the business. And we became really good friends and he`s come over to my house for dinner and friend`s house for dinner, I stayed over at his house, you know, numerous times. And you know, we went on a cruise together.
We even trained on stage in front of hundreds of other people together here in Arizona. And you know, he was -- he was the comedian. He was funny. Gentle. Very, you know, honest. And, you know, there`s -- I think if they`re trying to use the whole, you know, violence, if he really was a violent person or a raging person, that`s going to show up in other areas of your life that a lot of other people are going to be able to see and not one person that knows Travis has come out and said yes, he was -- he was that person. There`s -- it has no merit on anything. There`s no way he was that person.
COSBY: Did he ever talk about her? Did he ever talk about Jodi Arias and say anything about her?
JONES: Not with me.
COSBY: Is it possible he had sort of two different lives? I mean, is that -- is that possible?
JONES: You mean with Jodi?
COSBY: Yes, I mean just, you know, sometimes people are one way with one person and one with the other, although, as I keep saying, you -- I mean, if somebody has a violent streak, the cops would have been called out. Something would happen. We`re not hearing any of that.
JONES: Yes. You know, I mean, we`re all human. I mean, but as far as the whole violence part, it just -- it wouldn`t have happened. Not out of Travis. He was -- he was the most genuine person that I`ve met in a long time and had a heart of gold. And I think that they`re using the whole violence thing because that`s -- what else can she say? She`s already changed her story two or three times. So she has to rely on this. And of course, Travis isn`t around to back himself up. So we just have to take things out of context. And, you know, so that`s all she can use.
COSBY: Well, and I agree with you.
Aaron Brehove, body language expert. There are all these three different stories. You know, first she says I wasn`t there, I don`t know what you`re talking about, what planet you`re on, to the cops and then we even heard from the recording today, she basically said, last time I talked to him was last night. She forgets. She was there. You know, I mean, it`s incredible, the lies and how calmly she lies.
Then she says these, quote, "intruders," then she comes with self-defense. We`ve yet to see that one. What do you make of all this sort of calm, easy-to-lie person?
AARON BREHOVE, VOICE ANALYSIS AND BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, we see it on her interview on "Inside Edition," very calm, collected, cool. But then we see it in this -- in this film conversation. The police investigator did a terrific job continuously caught her in lies. She starts out by saying, as far as getting into his e-mails that never happened. And he says well, actually we have a search warrant. And then she says OK, well, I`ll -- yes, I`ll tell you right now that I -- that I did get into his e-mails.
So she comes out and she lies and she then she backs up a little bit and says OK, well, now I`m going to tell you everything. She keeps on getting caught and she never wants to give it up.
COSBY: And, Aaron -- hold on, hold one second, let me play a little bit of that "Inside Edition" and let me get you to comment. Here`s that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did you kill Travis Alexander?
ARIAS: I absolutely did not kill Travis Alexander. I had nothing to do with his murder. I didn`t harm him in any way. I witnessed Travis being attacked by two other individuals.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who?
ARIAS: I don`t know who they were. I couldn`t pick them out in a police lineup.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So what happened?
ARIAS: They came into his home and attacked us both. I`m not proud that I just left my friend there to be slaughtered at the hands of two other people. I`m not proud of that at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: You know, and that`s Jodi Arias on "Inside Edition." You know, Aaron, when I see that, I think of how calm and how easy it is for her to make up this story. You know, and of course, by her own admission now says it`s self-defense. She was there, she did kill him and then today we hear in the conversation with cops, very calm, no, I hadn`t seen him since April. It`s June. She was in the house, we know.
No, you know, I -- you know, I talked to him the night before. It`s amazing how easy it is and how smooth it is for her to lie.
BREHOVE: She thinks she`s hugely intelligent. She`s not quite as smart as she thinks. The cop -- the police investigator texted her numerous times and then eventually she goes from saying I have no idea to who it may be, to name somebody else, Thomas Brown. She starts out by saying that he`s a sexual predator. That it was a very -- it wasn`t a friendly situation. And at the end of the statement, she`s realizes this isn`t the person who did it, I need to back up a little bit and says she`s a -- he`s big dumb teddy bear.
COSBY: Yes, like make up your mind. Right.
BREHOVE: This is not a -- yes, exactly. She has no idea where she`s going with this. While she`s a great liar, she`s not quite as intelligent as I think she thinks she is.
COSBY: Well, let`s go to the callers, Linda from California, you`re on the line. What`s your question, Linda?
LINDA, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Rita.
COSBY: Hello there, how are you?
LINDA: I`m good, how are you?
COSBY: Good, good, good. What`s your question?
LINDA: I was wondering if anyone on your panel is aware of any restraining orders that might have been placed against her from past relationships or any issues, serious issues she had with boyfriends in the past.
COSBY: That`s a great question. Let me go to Bonnie Drucker, NANCY GRACE producer.
Bonnie, anything in her or her history and let`s just make it blank. Anything in his history that you know of.
DRUKER: No, I haven`t heard one of those things. Definitely not on him. Haven`t heard of any restraining orders. And in fact, he never called cops to have a restraining order against her even though he suspected that she slashed his tires.
COSBY: Yes, that`s interesting. Let`s go to Barbara from South Carolina.
Barbara, what`s your question? Barbara, you`re on the air. What`s your question?
BARBARA, CALLER FROM SOUTH CAROLINA: Yes, ma`am. I`m here. I was just wondering, each time that she changed her story in the three different stories that she gave, I was wondering if she gave a different story to different investigators or if she gave all three stories to the same investigators?
COSBY: Beth Karas, let`s go to you. Some was to the media, right?
KARAS: Well, she repeated to the media. Now this is coming up in the case. They`re putting things in in a chronological order. So we`re going to hear on July 15th, when she gets arrested, she talks to Detective Flores. The same on in the phone call that the jury heard today. And she will continue to maintain that she hasn`t seen him since April.
She thinks about it overnight and calls him the next day and wants to talk to him again. She`s in custody and that`s when she changes to the second story. So that`s the same detective. When she comes out with self-defense that may have come out through her attorneys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: Even though we broke up, we`re no longer boyfriend and girlfriend, we decided to remain friends.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So you guys were not like romantically together at any time or --
ARIAS: We were intimate but I wouldn`t say romantic as far as the relationship goes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Travis` family and friends say Jodi was stalking him in the months before the murder, something she denies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He rewarded that love for Travis Victor Alexander by sticking a knife in his chest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the bathroom where the shower stall was. That was all covered in blood. And I noticed large amounts of blood pooling and smears.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she should be on death row until she dies.
ARIAS: The evidence is very compelling, but none of it proves that I committed a murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And I want to warn everybody there`s some graphic language and also graphic pictures, again, all of this part of the evidence in day two of the Jodi Arias murder trial. Today, we`re hearing that Travis Alexander, you know, this is via e-mails, called her, quote, "a slut." Called her a three-hole wonder and said, I was little more than a dildo with a heartbeat to you.
Some pretty graphic language. So what does it all mean? Are they trying to smear the victim? In addition to that, I want to show the footage. Take a look right here. This towel, I think, is very significant.
Let`s go to Bonnie Drucker, NANCY GRACE producer.
Bonnie, we`re looking at pictures of the T-shirt being held up. Underwear, other things. What`s the significance of all of this that was shown in court today?
DRUKER: Well, all this stuff including pillowcases and socks, they were found in the washing machine where the camera was also found. So I guess what they`re trying to say is that she cleaned up the scene, including that towel, and then put it all in the washing machine.
COSBY: And what we`re seeing is the towel sort of looks like it was bleached, right, Bonnie? Wasn`t there the something regarding bleach like trying to really hide the evidence, it could be?
DRUKER: Right, right. Trying to hide the evidence, bleached out towel and the T-shirt had some bleach on it. I can tell you right now that the family -- Travis Alexander`s family lost it when some of his stuff starts to come out. I mean, the witness put on these rubber gloves and dug into a plastic bag that`s been wrapped in paper and took one item out, one at a time.
And it was really, really hard. But again, that towel was probably used or looked like it was used in the murder.
COSBY: And C.W. Jensen --
DRUKER: Used to wipe out the murder.
COSBY: Retired police captain, you know, C.W., all of this, the bleached towel, the bedding was also found in the dryer. And let`s not forget, she first said she wasn`t there and then suddenly she was there when authorities came up with this camera that was found in the washing machine. So that washing machine and dryer is pretty key for a lot of reasons, right?
JENSEN: Right, and you know, the bottom line is, and lord knows I called O.J. Simpson and Casey -- what`s her name, wrong --
COSBY: Casey Anthony. How could you forget that one?
JENSEN: Right. My fellow Arizona residents see through this. But I`ve investigated cases where women have killed abusive husbands. And do you know what they did immediately after the fight? They called 911. They had one story. They didn`t have a gun disappear from their father`s house. They didn`t have, as you say, the camera, the clothes, the trip, all these things.
I mean, it`s almost overwhelming the evidence against this woman. You know, the fact that she had a maid`s outfit makes no sense to me in any of this.
COSBY: You know, Holly Hughes, yes, hiding the evidence. She drives there, she comes over with the gun. Let`s hear your best one, Holly.
HUGHES: Well, first of all, nobody proved she came over with a gun. You`re saying it`s the same caliber gun. There are probably --
COSBY: She said -- she said she killed him. She said she killed him in self-defense. That`s not up for dispute, Holly. Are you going to pretend like she didn`t kill him now?
HUGHES: Right, but -- no, but if you`ll let me finish my sentence, a trial is a search for the truth. So when you say, I want to talk about all the bad stuff she did, let`s -- but then you get so upset when we simply talk about what his words were and how he treated her. So we need to keep an open mind until we see all this. We`re only in day two of this trial and we haven`t heard from the domestic violence expert yet either.
COSBY: Right. And by the way, we haven`t heard from cops, we haven`t heard from anybody who has said that he had a violent streak. So there`s a lot of unopened questions here and she`s got a big problem I think after today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember seeing e-mails in which Mr. Alexander referred to Miss Arias as, quote, "a slut"?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a whore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Those are the allegations they made.
ARIAS: No. No, not at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why they would start pointing fingers in your direction right away?
ARIAS: I don`t know. Maybe I`m hated because I`m the ex-girlfriend, we`ve had lots of fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And again, everybody, we want to warn you, the words are graphic, the pictures are graphic that were shown in court today again presented as evidence in day two of the Jodi Arias murder trial.
Again the murder scene, as you can see, this is the sink. Bloody, very graphic pictures that were presented to the jury today.
Let`s go to Dr. Bill Manion, New Jersey medical examiner.
Dr. Manion, when you see these pictures, from a medical examiner`s standpoint, and they believe, by the way, the sink is significant because that`s where they believe she slit his throat from ear to ear. This is a picture here -- this is of the bullet, one of the shell casings, and you can see some dried blood. This is in the tile of the bathroom floor.
What is all of this telling you, Dr. Manion, when you see it?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, this is a type of overkill that involves a person that knows this person intimately. And I also noted the medical examiner did a rape exam on the deceased. He wanted to make sure that he hadn`t been the victim of some homosexual rage act which we sometimes see when a person is upset about, you know, having a homosexual relationship and then, you know, becomes sober and becomes more -- becomes more real and then decides to take revenge on the victim. So he even did a sex attack --
COSBY: Because, Dr. Manion, it was so powerful and just so violent, right?
MANION: Exactly. Exactly. And the medical examiner even said it was a deep, forceful slice across the throat. I mean, to cut the airway completely and then to hit the carotid, all that blood splatter you see there on the sink and mirror is blood spurting from the carotid artery that`s just been severed.
COSBY: It`s just heartbreaking. I can`t even imagine what his family went through and friends who were there in court today.
You know, C.W. Jensen, when you see this, one of the things that surprised me, the authorities were saying at first they thought it was more than one attacker. This is before they zoomed in on Jodi Arias, because it was so brutal.
JENSEN: Right. The doctor would know, obviously, better than me. I`ve been to a whole lot of autopsies but he`s done a whole lot more than I`ve done. And so I -- you know, he could -- the medical examiner oftentimes can kind of tell when the wound happened, when the gunshot wound happened first. To me it kind of makes sense that she would shoot him and then in that rage that you talked to with some of the other guests that she tore him with, you know, a bladed weapon and cut his throat.
COSBY: And we remember American hero, Army Staff Sgt. Rusty Christian, 24 from Greenville, Tennessee, killed in Afghanistan. He was awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, two Army Commendation Medals and an Army Achievement Medal. He loved football, baseball and playing drums, and leaves behind parents Michael and Donna, stepfather Jim, brother Aaron, widow Amber, and children Taylor and Gavin.
Rusty Christian, American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: He wouldn`t allow me to not answer his text message. If I didn`t respond, he would keep calling and keep calling until I did. I took it as a compliment.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: She loves the limelight.
ARIAS: My mug shot. I did a little tilt on my head and gave a little smile. I knew it would be all over the Internet, so why not?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And let`s continue with the callers. Lisa from Canada, you`re on the line. What`s your question?
LISA, CALLER FROM CANADA: Hello, Rita. Thank you. Can I please ask you or someone else, is it possible that in prison that there is a therapist where they can talk to the person that has been charged with the crime to see what really happened?
COSBY: That`s an interesting question. Bonnie Druker, what do you think? What are you hearing?
DRUKER: I have not heard that one yet. But I`m assuming there`s some that they can. I mean, usually in prison some people sometimes get those services. But I`m not sure. I haven`t heard anything about Jodi Arias.
COSBY: All we know is she keeps singing and singing and singing. Let`s go to Cindy from Mississippi. You`re on the line. What`s your question?
Let`s go to Cindy again. Are you there, Cindy?
CINDY, CALLER: Yes.
COSBY: Yes, what`s your question real quick?
CINDY: Yes, I was wondering, I know there is a considerable difference in size between her and the victim. I was wondering, how does the prosecution stand on how she supposedly overtook him and committed the crime?
COSBY: Great question. Beth Karas, it is surprising because cops even thought two people did it, right, Beth?
KARAS: Yes, but what we learned yesterday, and I know I don`t have a long time to explain it, but what we learned yesterday is the state believed that as she was taking very tasteful photos of him in the shower, one of the photos is he`s crouching down in the shower and that`s when she stabbed him in the heart and that`s when the struggle began. And she slit his throat on his way into the bedroom. They were struggling in the hallway.
COSBY: Amazing when you overpower him at that point. Incredible.
And coming up next, everyone. "WHAT WOULD YOU DO?" ABC`s hit hidden camera show.
See you tomorrow night, everybody, 8:00 p.m. sharp Eastern Time, and have a terrific evening, everyone.