Return to Transcripts main page
Jodi Arias Trial Day 5
Aired January 10, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet up on a trip for work in Vegas and fall hard. But when the flame burns out and they break up, she then moves 300 miles to get back together, to pursue him, even converting to Mormonism to get her man. But then 30-year-old Travis Alexander found slumped dead in the shower of his five-bedroom home, shot, stabbed 29 times, violence so brutal it resembles a mob hit.
Now we learn just hours after Arias stabs her 30-year-old lover, Travis Alexander, to death in the shower, Arias has sex contact with a brand-new boyfriend, egging the new boyfriend on sexually, even climbing up on top of him as if nothing`s wrong, and the whole time Travis Alexander`s body decomposing in a damp shower stall.
Bombshell tonight. Arias`s elaborate web of lies exposed in court. The blonde-turned-brunette sits demurely during her murder one trial, decked out in a new forest green ensemble as it`s revealed she lies about everything, from her job to her boyfriends to her religion, her alibi, even the restaurants where she eats and works. And now they want to us believe her in court?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When did you first find out what happened?
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: Dan called me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dan who?
ARIAS: Dan Freeman. I`m sorry. (INAUDIBLE) you`re not making the trip up there. And he`s, like, yes, I think you`re going to have to. And then he`s, like, yes (INAUDIBLE) about Travis. And I was, like, What? You know, like, that`s never good. But I didn`t think anything at first (INAUDIBLE) I was totally shocked. I just kept thinking maybe there`s a mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s dead. He`s in his bedroom, in the shower.
911 OPERATOR: OK. How did this happen? Do you have any idea?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt so helpless because I wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had two small bandages on a couple of her fingers. She told me she worked at Margaritaville, she broke a glass and cut her finger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Yreka, is there a business establishment, a bar, a restaurant by the name of Margaritaville?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) found his camera, and you know, it`s pretty much ruined and we don`t know why. We have no idea why somebody would, you know, destroy his camera. And...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh.
ARIAS: I just felt totally helpless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Jodi Arias`s elaborate web off lies exposed in court. The blonde-turned-brunette sits there in court demurely in her murder one trial today, decked out in a new forest green ensemble as it is revealed she just lies about everything, from her job, her alibi, her past relationships, her boyfriends, even the restaurant where she works, where she eats, even getting lost on the freeway. Everything, every detail of her life, she lies about it.
You don`t think she would lie to the jury to save her own skin? If she will lie about working at Margaritaville versus Casa Ramos, who cares? Why would she lie about that?
Bombshells in the courtroom today. Straight out to Bonnie Druker, our team member at the courthouse. Bonnie, what happened in court?
BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, Margaritaville- That`s how the day started off. Now, remember Margaritaville is very crucial because she told Ryan Burns that she had to get back to Yreka to work at Margaritaville as a bartender. Remember, she told -- she told Ryan Burns that she cut her hand because a glass at Margaritaville fell on her hand.
As you mentioned, she actually worked as Casa Ramos. So you know, it`s just really, really hard to take anything that she says seriously. It`s almost like -- wow, unbelievable, Nancy, just watching her sitting there calmly lie after lie after lie after lie after lie.
GRACE: You know who this reminds me of? Out to you Mike Walker, senior editor with "The National Enquirer." He was onto this story before it ever went to a court. I mean, this reminds me so much of tot mom and Scott Peterson, Mike, because they all lied about their jobs. They lied about their alibis. They lied about the mode of death of the victim. They lied about where they were.
They all gave national interviews, interviews to the press, interviews to other people, comments. They all changed their stories at some point or another. They all even dyed their hair, Mike Walker, let`s see, from dark to blond to dark again, which is an eerie comparison.
And I know. I don`t have to go to the lawyers, Marla Chicotsky, Alan Ripka to go, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just because they lie doesn`t make them a murderer. You know what? I agree with that. I`m going to give you that, Mike Walker. But it goes to credibility. It all goes to credibility, Mike.
MIKE WALKER, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" (via telephone): Well, it does, indeed. And every -- as you put it, every word out of this woman`s mouth seems to be a lie. She even lies when there`s no reason to lie -- all of the stuff about, you know, the going to the guy`s house right after, you know, but Oh, no, I killed him in self-defense. Well, if you did that, weren`t you upset? Would you go to bed with a guy right after you killed somebody, even if it was in self-defense? I mean, you would drive, you know, up to Utah from the crime scene in Arizona?
None of it makes any sense. And I only want to ask you one thing. What do you make of a camera in a washing machine that has not come up anywhere that has pictures of the guy alive in a shower, and then a picture of him dead? Who threw that camera into a washing machine and for what reason?
GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact, Jodi Arias is caught on tape talking about -- with police, about that camera. Hey, Liz, get me that sound of her when they first confront her about the fact that that digital camera was bought and what she knows about it.
Hold on just a moment, Liz. Thank you. Before I play that, I want to go to a special guest joining us tonight, and he is taking your calls. This is a close friend, a former roommate of the murder victim, Travis Alexander. He actually drove Jodi Arias, not realizing he was driving a murderer propped up there in the front seat with him, to the police station for the very first time. He also went to visit her behind bars.
Joining me and taking your calls, which I find significant -- not afraid to answer questions, nothing to hide. Aaron Dewey is with me. Aaron, thank you for being with us.
AARON DEWEY, FRIEND AND FORMER ROOMMATE OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Thanks for having me, Nancy.
GRACE: Aaron, I`m extremely curious about what happened when you drove Jodi Arias to the police station the first time she went there. First of all, how did she end up in your car? Why were you driving her to the police station?
DEWEY: Well, you know, I lived with Travis the whole time that he and Jodi were dating, and so I knew her pretty well, actually considered her a friend. And so when she had come back to Arizona from California for his memorial service, I spent a lot of time with her that weekend.
As we were talking, she knew at that point that she was at least a person of interest in the case. And so she thought that it would help to clear her name if she went down to the police station, gave a statement, gave her fingerprints voluntarily. She thought that would all help her out -- no regard to what happened to Travis there.
And so you know, being here without transportation, she asked me if I could help her out with that, and so I took her down to the police station and sat while she gave her statement.
GRACE: Aaron, I`m very surprised she didn`t hit on you.
DEWEY: I`m sorry?
GRACE: I mean, you`re a good-looking young guy. You`re a good- looking young guy. Are you Mormon, too?
DEWEY: Yes, I am.
GRACE: Well, that seems to be her specialty. All right, let me just put that on a shelf and I`ll revisit that later. But back to the car ride to the police station. What happened?
DEWEY: You know, it`s so long ago, I don`t remember a lot. But you know, I do remember from that weekend having conversations where she was saying, you know, It`s so sad. He meant so much to me. Why would anybody want to do this to somebody that`s as great as Travis?
And you know, in the moment, that made perfect sense. There was nothing about those conversations that was in the least bit alarming to me. In hindsight, knowing what she did and how she was involved, it`s absolutely sickening.
GRACE: Aaron, what was her demeanor? Everyone, with me is Travis`s former roommate, Aaron Dewey. He also gave a ride to Jodi Arias to the police station.
What was her demeanor? And did you have any qualms about driving a murder person of interest in your car with you?
DEWEY: You know, at the time, I didn`t believe that she was involved, you know? I didn`t think that Jodi was capable of doing something like this, and let alone to someone like Travis, who she claimed to be very much in love with. So at the time, you know, there was no fear for my safety. I was doing something to help out a friend.
But looking back, it`s pretty scary to know how close she was to me after what she had done just a few days before.
GRACE: Aaron, you told me that you lived with Travis during the time he dated Jodi. What was that relationship like? What did you observe, if anything?
ARIAS: You know, when they first met, Travis was on cloud nine. Here was a very attractive young lady that he had met at that convention in Las Vegas. They shared a lot of similar interests, some similar passions, a real drive and ambition in life. He thought he had found the one.
And at the beginning of the relationship, everything seemed like it was going to go perfectly and possibly go all the way. Things deteriorated quickly. There were lots of trust issues. And she...
GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!
DEWEY: ... turned out to be...
GRACE: Wa-wait! Wa-wait!
DEWEY: ... not the person that he thought.
GRACE: Right there. Right there, Aaron. Let`s not put perfume on the pig. What do you mean by there were a lot of trust issues?
DEWEY: Well, you know, she`s admitted in some of her statements that she would go through his e-mails, his social media accounts, his text messages. There was a time when they were on vacation together, and he was asleep or in the shower and a text message came in from another girl, and she responded to that girl as if she was Travis, telling her how happy that he was to be with her and she`s the best thing that ever happened, in an attempt to scare this girl away from Travis.
GRACE: Wait. This is new to me.
DEWEY: And you know...
GRACE: Hold on!
DEWEY: ... talking about the web of lies.
GRACE: Wait. Wait. So Travis Alexander`s taking a shower, prophetically, and she`s looking at all of his texts, and a text comes in from another woman. And she starts texting back and forth with the woman as if she`s Travis Alexander?
DEWEY: That`s correct.
GRACE: OK. That`s crazy.
DEWEY: Absolutely. I agree.
GRACE: What, may I ask, was she texting this woman?
DEWEY: These are the kinds of things she would do.
GRACE: What was she saying, Get away from him, you big tramp? What was she saying?
DEWEY: Oh, no, no. She was parading as if she was Travis. So you know, I`m having a great time out here. I`m so happy to be with Jodi. She`s such a wonderful girl -- anything to make this girl believe that Travis was more interested in Jodi than he was in her, which was not the case.
GRACE: Let me ask you this. You take her to the police station. Did you go in with her?
GRACE: You went in with her? What happened inside?
DEWEY: I did. I had to sit down in the waiting room while she went up with the detectives to give her prints and give her statement. So I don`t know what transpired during that interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A digital camera that was found inside of the washing machine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the memory card, pictures of Travis seconds before he was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found this camera, and you know, it`s pretty much ruined, and we didn`t know why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And after the camera was dropped, a shot of Jodi Arias dragging his bloody body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re just dumbfounded. We have no idea why somebody would, you know, destroy his camera and...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Those stains are all from about 12 inches and down. The blood source was actually low, and those blood stains simply flew to the side and...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Another bombshell day in the courtroom, Jodi Arias on trial for the horrific murder of her Mormon lover, Travis Alexander. And with me -- not only do we have, caught on tape, Jodi Arias in one of her police interviews, but also the young man who took her to the police station, who drove her there at her request.
And following up on that scenario you just told me about, Aaron Dewey, she was texting back and forth with her next would-be boyfriend, Ryan Burns, and she said -- was describing the incident you`re describing, and says that she wrote to the girl, Time to go cuddle with Jodi. Good night.
Now, if that wouldn`t scare away a potential girlfriend, I don`t know what would.
GRACE: All right, Aaron Dewey, here taking your calls. But right now, I want to listen to Jodi in her own words caught on tape.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me if you or when you had contact with him, or the last time you talked to him?
ARIAS: Yes, I think -- I know that I talked to him early Monday morning, which was -- I was just up late Sunday night, for example. And I probably talked to him -- it may have been a good 45 minutes that morning.
And we were just talking about how he lived. He had conversation with another person about (INAUDIBLE) and they were -- and it was really a conversation, and he was just talking a lot about what was said there. And I think we probably talked until about 4:00 in the morning, I think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
ARIAS: Yes, we were -- he was a night owl. I`m a night owl. And it wasn`t a really long conversation. Like, we`ve had conversations that have lasted hours and hours, but this one was probably only about -- I want to say 45 minutes. It may have been longer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when did you guys actually start dating.
ARIAS: Not for a while. We met in September. The following weekend, he invited me to church. And the following Wednesday of that Sunday, he gave me a copy of The Book of Mormon. I started reading it. I got baptized November 26th.
We would talk a lot and hang out a lot. And we kind of had, like, a thing, and there was definitely an attraction and an interest, but we weren`t officially dating until about February of 2007, around his birthday. I think a string of events sort of pushed that together. Travis has kind of a commitment phobia, I guess you could say.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: She thinks he has a commitment phobia? I guess so. He doesn`t want to be engaged to an axe murderer, bottom line.
We are taking your calls. Out to the lines. Jeannie in Tennessee. Hi, Jeannie. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you today?
GRACE: I`m good, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh. I adore you so much and what you stand for.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lord knows you have a special -- Lord knows you have a special place in heaven, my friend.
GRACE: You know what? Your mouth to God`s ear, Jeannie. What`s your question, my love?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anyway, my question is -- I don`t quite get it. She claims it was self-defense, was her last story or lie or whatever you want to call it. If she was in another state, how was she in danger?
GRACE: You know what? I`m going to throw that to the defense attorneys, Jeannie in Tennessee. Unleash the lawyers, Alan Ripka, New York, Marla Chicotsky, Miami. All right, Marla, so she`s claiming that she was kind of under his Svengali control, that she was his sex slave, that he verbally and emotionally abused her.
So why does she drive on one occasion 300 miles and on another occasion over 1,000 miles to get back to him? She`s the one pursuing him, Marla.
MARLA CHICOTSKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, we don`t know if that`s exactly true, Nancy. She could be...
GRACE: Why do you say that?
CHICOTSKY: ... getting text messages -- she could be getting text messages, e-mails. Sometimes in relationships, a woman can get manipulated by the man.
GRACE: Put her up, please!
CHICOTSKY: We don`t know, unfortunately, his side of the story.
GRACE: Marla, that`s not what I said. I said on one occasion, she drove 300 miles after the breakup. On another occasion, she drove 1,000 miles to get back to Travis Alexander. That`s what I said. I did not mention text messages or phone calls.
If he was abusing her and she wanted to get out from his sexual control, then why did she drive 1,000 miles to just get slung up with him? Could you tell me that? That doesn`t sound like an abusive relationship, Alan Ripka.
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you haven`t heard, Nancy, of women who in abusive relationships want the security of the person they`re with, the guy who puts the spell on the woman? Yes, she may have gone back to him because she believed she wanted to be with him. It doesn`t mean it`s healthy.
GRACE: Actually, Alan Ripka, having worked at the battered women`s center for 10 years as a volunteer -- actually, no. I think in the true sense -- I`m going to go to Bethany Marshall on this. She`s the shrink expert joining me out of LA.
Bethany, in a true battered women syndrome case, the battered woman wants to get away, but she`s afraid to get away. And she yearns for a different life but is brainwashed to think she can`t have a different life. Here this woman got away. She moved 1,000 miles away.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: And she should have gotten a support system and stayed there. I would say this is not battered wife syndrome because I think the fact is that she went back to him like a moth to the flame, to punish him for the rejection.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. We are there at the courthouse.
I want to go back to Aaron Dewey, close friend, former roommate of Travis Alexander, joining us tonight. You take her to the police station. You`re hearing her caught on tape as she tells the cops all this BS. And I am using your quote. You said, I took her to the police station to give her first BS -- except you did not use the initials -- statement to police.
Now, let me ask you this. As you saw the relationship begin to degenerate, what did you observe about Arias?
DEWEY: Nothing -- nothing super out of the ordinary, you know, when she would be there at the home because she still frequented the house regularly, even after they broke up, a little bit more distant, maybe not quite as bubbly and outgoing as she usually was, but nothing that seemed too out of the ordinary.
GRACE: To Mike Walker, senior editor at "National Enquirer." We know a completely different side of Jodi Arias, a side that was absolutely incensed, consumed with rage that she had sex with a guy all day long and all night long, and he was still going to take another woman to Cancun.
WALKER: That`s right. And the lady who said a moth to a flame to punish him for the rejection -- this is the whole core of this woman. She`s been vindictive. She`s described as a stalker. Even the way she texted back the other woman saying, Hi, I`m Travis and I`m going to go sleep with Jodi now. She`s got a fierce flame burning inside her. She wants to punish.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ARIAS: But what bothered me was there were -- not only were some flirtations, like, which I expected and which bothered me, but it wasn`t necessarily a crime. But there were plenty of -- there were, like, plans, like, things like, Well, where do you want to meet? Oh, I don`t know. Wherever the best place -- wherever the best place is for us to make out is.
I was, like, Oh, my gosh. You know, we had been dating for a few months at this point, and he always said, Well, we`re not dating anybody else. And to him, that was, I think, reasonable enough because I think in his mind, if he was making out with other girls but he wasn`t dating them, it was OK.
And the only reason I think that`s true is because of what we continued to do as he was dating Lisa, and I didn`t realize that, either. So I confronted him about it. Actually, I didn`t confront him at first. I should have been an adult about it and confronted him, but I held it in for a few weeks. And then it all came out. That`s when we broke up. And so I just realized that I don`t -- I didn`t feel like I could trust him fully to be monogamous and I don`t think that he could trust me fully to not get back in his phone some day. And then try to find something out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So she didn`t trust him. Hmm. She admits she`s slashed him from ear to ear. Gee, I wonder why he didn`t want to marry her.
We are live, out at the courthouse there in Phoenix, Arizona, and taking your calls. With me right now Beth Karas, straight out of the courtroom. Beth, legal correspondent, "In Session".
Whoa, what a day, but first, a motion for a mistrial. The defense tries to get the case thrown out.
What happened, Beth?
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: Well, they lost the motion. That`s the bottom line. But they said it`s because there was contrary testimony from the lead detective at a hearing a couple of years ago regarding the aggravating factor of cruelty that would make this case a death case if the jury finds first degree. And they`re saying that the sequence of shots -- I mean fatal wounds testified to in 2009 at this hearing is different from what the testimony was at the trial.
At the hearing, the testimony and the judge found was that the shot to the head was first, but it didn`t render Travis Alexander unconscious. He could still fight. And there was a finding of probable cause of cruelty. That`s the aggravating factor.
Well, this judge said, look, OK. Now the testimony is the stab wound to the heart was the first fatal wound that didn`t render him unconscious. He was able to keep fighting. He had defensive wounds and the shot came later. I still find it was cruel. So I`m denying your motion and besides, it`s kind of late for you to say that the theory of the sequence changed.
GRACE: Well, yes, because, Beth Karas, it`s my understanding that the defense interviewed the medical examiner, I believe Dr. Horn, over a year ago or around a year ago? So they went through the sequence with him then regardless of what the police officer said and another thing, Beth, I`m not -- maybe I just can`t get my mind around the argument. They`re saying that it`s more cruel to, what, stab somebody, then shoot them as supposed to shooting them, then stabbing them? Does it really matter? You say tomato, I say tomato?
KARAS: Well, basically yes. And the judge said wait a second. He`s still alive for all of those stab wounds and defensive wounds or he wouldn`t have bled so much. His heart was still beating. So whether he was shot first or stabbed in the heart first because there were three major fatal wounds, stab to the heart, gunshot to the head and slashed across the throat.
And the testimony at the trial was the gunshot had to come later because it went through his brain. The slash of the throat had to come later because he was dead within seconds after that. The stab to the heart was the first wound and that`s why he fought because it didn`t kill him right away.
GRACE: Well, to me, it`s slicing hairs. Which injury -- what I care about, Beth, is the sequence of events as to how he was killed. I think stabbing somebody 29 times, shooting them in the face, chipping their head, their skull with a knife, cutting them ear to ear, to me it`s incredibly heinous regardless of which wound is first.
Beth Karas, with us just coming straight out of the courtroom.
Beth, did she hide behind her hair like Cousin It all day today the way she did yesterday?
KARAS: Well, she did. She went when the blood spatter photos were shown again and the description was delivered by the blood spatter expert about the -- how many different events there were and how Travis Alexander was down on the ground during this event and then there would have been another event of a stabbing or something that caused more spatter.
He was standing at the sink, he was spitting blood, dripping blood. And then staggered down the hall. So she was hiding her face behind her hair as well as glasses. But you know what, when that mistrial motion occurred and the jury was gone, she sat up straight and she was not wearing her glasses.
GRACE: Did she wear glasses before this trial, Beth, or is that an acquired look?
KARAS: No, actually, I saw her once at the jail about a little over a year ago when I went to interview her and her former lawyer pulled the plug on the interview just as I was about to do it, and when she came out, she was wearing dark rimmed big, big glasses that were dark rimmed. I didn`t recognize her at first because of the glasses. So she did wear them at the jail.
So yes, maybe she has an option to wear them because she wasn`t wearing them just now on the courtroom for the mistrial motion but in front of the jury, she`s now wearing glasses.
GRACE: Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter, radaronline.com, I guarantee that none of these men ever saw her wearing glasses.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: Absolutely not. You`re right. There are no photos of her with any of the guys ever wearing glasses. And in fact, she had her very, very platinum blonde hair. Much more of a bombshell look than what she has now which is this mousey brown hair and this really just plain green shirt that she had on today. It`s a completely different look than she`s ever had in years and years.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a renowned forensic scientist. We all know Dr. Henry Lee, chair professor of forensic science, University of New Haven.
Dr. Lee, thank you so much for being with us.
You`re most welcome, Nancy.
GRACE: Dr. Lee, you have been a star witness in some of the most high-profile cases in this country. I can`t say that I`ve always agreed with you. But I have always respected your opinion. I`d like to know what you think about the blood evidence at the scene, specifically the fact -- and Beth will correct me if I`m wrong, I hope, that there was blood spatter underneath the scales in the bathroom and underneath the bathroom rug.
It reminds me of a case I had many, many years ago where it was a suicide or so it was said. But I happened to notice that there was blood spatter under the pillowcase where the deceased was lying when she committed suicide. That`s impossible. All right? So why is there blood spatter under the bathroom rug and under the bathroom scales?
DR. HENRY LEE, CHAIR PROFESSOR OF FORENSIC SCIENCE, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAVEN: Well, in the bathroom, they probably have couple of thousands of bloodstain, blood spatter. Especially on the floor and the sink. And the floor area basically if you drip in the blood, the blood may bounce, got underneath the scale. As far as the mat, which means could be because the testimony say more likely below which could be tried to clean up, put the mat on top of it. So subsequently soak into the mat.
The most important thing, Nancy, you probably notice about 500 or more blood spatter on the sink area. Those are medium velocity blood spatter which suggests have to have certain force. Could be the slow/through because that cover about two to 10 inches in area. Which means a lot of blood gushing out at that point of attack.
Another very interesting thing which did not mention in your show, I don`t know mentioned in the trial or not because I heard, watch your show, a lot of argument about what`s the sequence, shot first or stabbing first. If you remember look at the crime scene photo have a casing on top of the bloodstain. And that`s on the bathroom floor, too, which suggests a deposit on the floor, subsequently a casing ejected on top of the bloodstain.
GRACE: Man, what a day in court today.
Everybody, we are taking your calls, but I want you to hear Jodi Arias in her own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean obviously, you guys dated before.
ARIAS: Yes, we dated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were kind of just still really good friends, but not, you know, romantically seeing each other anymore.
ARIAS: Not exactly. We broke up last -- yes. I would say there was certainly a romantic side to it, you could say, or an intimate side to it, but we weren`t exactly on the path to marriage or anything like that, and we both knew that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want to make this unpleasant or anything, but I mean, was it still a sexual relationship going on after that?
ARIAS: Yes, there was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
Do you remember when he bought that camera?
ARIAS: April maybe? I know it was after I moved. It could have been in May.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
ARIAS: Could have been in May. I know it was after I moved up here because I was here while I was on the phone with him purchasing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never got to see the camera then or anything?
ARIAS: No, and I`m trying to remember, maybe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the reason I`m asking is because we found this camera, and you know, it`s pretty much ruined and we didn`t know why.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t, you know, discuss why but, you know, or how it`s ruined but we were just -- it`s -- we`re just dumbfounded. We have no idea why somebody would, you know, destroy his camera. And I wonder if you can describe it to me but obviously you haven`t seen it, you never touched, never seen it so.
ARIAS: No. I think -- I`m thinking there`s a picture of him on Facebook where he took a picture of himself in the mirror.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
ARIAS: And I think that`s his camera. So I mean, I can`t tell what it is, though, the picture isn`t really sharp and it`s a small resolution. But there`s a picture of him, profile picture on Facebook.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: So they`re caught on tape. We learned two major things. Number one, we learned that she was taken aback that she they had found that digicam. Oh, oh, those are her responses and number two, that she knew she was just a booty call. That the relationship was over. They just got together for sex and she spends a whole day, Mike Walker, having sex with him. She gets there about 3:00 in the morning and they`re down and dirty until the clock goes around and around and around. They`re finally taking a shower and he says, no, I`m not going to call off my trip to Cancun with another woman. Boom. That`s that, Mike.
MIKE WALKER, SENIOR EDITOR, NATIONAL ESQUIRE: Yes, that was that. And remember, this is a real black widow. I mean, remember, let`s not forget that this woman even if -- even if you kill someone in self-defense, Nancy, if you do that innocently, you`re ripped up inside emotionally. You know, affected. And suddenly, after this murder, she flies up to or drives up to Utah and she`s in bed with this guy who said she acted perfectly normal. They were lovey, dovey, they had sexual contact.
It`s just astounding that this woman is even walking around. I mean, I can`t even -- I can`t even tell you the last time I saw a female that was this scary.
GRACE: To Aaron Dewey, everyone, joining us tonight at the courthouse and taking your calls. Very close friend of Travis Alexander, actually gave Jodi Arias a ride the first time she went to go clear her name with police. You`re hearing some of those tapes, caught on tape right now.
You know, Aaron, you didn`t just give her a ride. You also went to visit her behind bars on one occasion. What happened?
AARON DEWEY, CLOSE FRIEND OF MURDERED TRAVIS ALEXANDER: That`s correct. It was pretty, pretty much a nonevent. I was home alone one year on Christmas. Decided with the new year coming up I needed to make my peace with her. By this time I knew enough evidence against her that she was definitely involved, and so I wanted to see what she had to say. Went down to the -- to the jailhouse, spent, you know, maybe only about 15 minutes with her, and probably the most nonchalant conversation I`ve ever had with Jodi. Life is good, no big deal that I`m behind bars for murder. How is this person? I haven`t talked to them in forever.
Not the type of conversation that you would expect to have someone that is carrying the guilt of slicing and dicing their ex-boyfriend.
GRACE: Now I find that so curious. Curious, indeed.
To you, Dr. Bethany Marshal, she`s sitting there carrying on with Aaron Dewey who`s one of the best friends of the man she murdered. And she`s talking like, yes, I`m not in jail right now. Everything`s fine. Hey, have you seen so and so? What`s happening? It`s like hello? Are those handcuffs on yet? Is that a glass wall between us?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": She did so many things similar to Casey Anthony. Can you hear it, like in that police interview, she throws in so many extraneous details that are not even important. Like the grainy picture, the resolution of the camera, that it was on Facebook. Detail, detail, detail just to manipulate the police.
The idea that she was so nonchalant to this friend in jail, this is like Casey Anthony saying oh, yes, I`m going to help -- I`m going to start a foundation to help children who are missing, lost or exploited. So all this stuff. The third thing that stands out to me is the use of sexuality. Fourteen hours of sex? I mean, really? To convince him to not go to Cancun?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN BURNS, JODI ARIAS EX-BOYFRIEND: She told me she worked at Margaritaville and she cut her finger. She broke a glass.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a business establishment, a bar or restaurant, by the name of Margaritaville?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
ARIAS: It is very compelling, but none of it proves that I committed a murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Travis left Jodi. No other options. Travis` continual abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you get this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Primarily they were lost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Angie in Illinois. Hi, Angie. What`s your question?
ANGIE, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. I had earlier in the week, I believe that Jodi Arias ` mother was in the courtroom? Is that true, and if so, what is that relationship between her and her mother that she was living with the grandparents?
GRACE: Good question. Out to Beth Karas. Beth has just come out of the courtroom.
Beth, what do we know?
KARAS: Yes, her mother has been in the courtroom every day of the trial, and her mother`s twin sister, Jodi`s aunt, has also been attending along with another friend. Her mother did not talk to anyone. And we actually know the reason why Jodi was living with the grandparents. I do know that she didn`t finish high school and Jodi was a little bit of a control problem for her parents when she was an adolescent. She would run away a lot as a teen and dropped out of high school. Came from a stable family, though, is my understanding, but I don`t know the reason yet for why she moved in with her grandparents in April, two months before she killed Travis.
GRACE: Joining me right now, medical examiner out of Philly, Dr. Bill Manion.
Dr. Manion, thank you for being with us. You`ve heard the medical examiner`s testimony. What does this say to you?
DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, it says to me that the gunshot wound to the head likely was the last gunshot wound, and it is important, I think, because if that had been the first injury, then he would have been knocked out by that -- by that bullet. And if I were a defense expert, I would argue that, well, that first gunshot wound knocked him out, and all the other stuff that happened to him, he wouldn`t feel any pain.
So -- but here we have the medical examiner saying, no, the gunshot wound was last, so he would have suffered tremendous pain from the stab wounds, the slashing, the cuts on his hands, the obvious struggle, and as the medical examiner talked today, that wound to the neck is a very violent, vicious, deep wound. You know, it went back to the cervical vertebral column, to the vertebrae, to the backbone, for god`s sakes.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Marine Captain Brandon Barrett, 27, Marion, Indiana. Second tour, Purple Heart. Loved the outdoors, hunting, fishing, always put others before himself. Parents Brett and Cindy, brother Broc, sisters Taylor and Ashley.
Brandon Barrett, American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: We were intimate, but I wouldn`t say romantic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: References to being used sexually by Miss Arias. I think I was a a little more than a dildo with a heartbeat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We`re taking your called to Jen in New Jersey. Hi Jen, what`s your question?
JEN, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi, Nancy. My question is, is there any proof of this ongoing secret affair that -- the other woman? Or could this be more pathological ling and Jodi trying to play the victim?
GRACE: You mean to prove that Arias was still sleeping with him or that he was seeing another woman?
JEN: No, that Arias was still seeing him like behind everyone`s back.
GRACE: Good question. To Aaron Dewey, what do you know about her still seeing him?
DEWEY: Well, after they had broken up, you know, Travis tried to move on, dated some other girls, but Jodi would still be around. They continued their friendship, would still go on trips together, but they both claimed that there was nothing romantic there anymore between them. So the fact that he`s having interactions, texts, calls, whatever it is with other girls, he`s a single man. He has every right to do that. And because of her jealousy and her vindictiveness, she kept trying to get in the way of that over and over again.
GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, one of our team producers on the story -- Matt, what do we know in response to Jen`s question?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: OK. What we know that -- that Travis Alexander was seeing Mimi Hall a couple of times, had a couple of dates with her in the days leading up to his death. That they had planned to go to Cancun together as friends, but that Travis Alexander wanted more of a relationship, but that Jodi Arias would not leave them alone and had even followed Travis Alexander and Mimi Hall on one of their dates.
GRACE: To Karen in Florida. Hi, Karen, what is your question?
KAREN, FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering -- and thank you for taking my call. I`m wondering why she doesn`t have more support from friends or more family at the trial? Does she -- and they`re like -- you know, in the past and stuff, is there any form of, like, mental illness in her background?
GRACE: OK. Let`s find out.
KAREN: I`m just wondering why there a lack of support.
GRACE: What do we know? Beth Karas, what do we know about that?
KARAS: Well, you know, she does have a friend in the courtroom, but she`s originally from northern California, so I don`t know that many of her friends would travel this far for this long,
KARAS: If she still has any. But the friends locally in this area, around the Phoenix area, they were also Travis` friends. So, you know, she doesn`t really have anyone on her side who knew her through Travis.
GRACE: Everyone, we`ll be back in the courtroom in the morning.
Happy birthday tonight to New York friend Vincenza. What a beauty, inside and out.
Everyone, ABC`s hidden camera hit "What Would You Do?" up next.
I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp eastern, and until good night, friend.